May 2018 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Stormseye]

Will there be any attention given to fixes/issues that arose from last months update? Namely buff stealers stealing incorrect amounts of buffs and Revenge characters and their absurd % chance to counter any and all attacks including ally attacks?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Will there be any attention given to fixes/issues that arose from last months update? Namely buff stealers stealing incorrect amounts of buffs and Revenge characters and their absurd % chance to counter any and all attacks including ally attacks?

We have fixes to certain buff stealers stealing incorrect amounts already noted in the preliminary patch notes. Previous reports I've seen of this are already listed in these notes or were found to not actually be a bug, just a misunderstanding to the functionality of skills/effects being employed. If you have a more specific example of something that isn't in the preliminary notes, do let us know the specifics of the problem you're running into and we can investigate.

Regarding revenge chance, please keep in mind that every hit of damage has it's own independent proc chance for Revenge or Counter. As such, if you're fighting 4 enemies and one of those enemies has Revenge:

• If you use a single target attack against the one enemy with Revenge, there is a 0% chance to Revenge
• If you use a single target, single hit attack against one enemy that doesn't have Revenge, there is a 35% chance to Revenge
• If you use an all-enemy attack that does one hit of damage (such as Sentinel Soulless Demon's Provoke), there is a 72.35% chance to Revenge (three successive 35% chances, since 3 of the 4 enemies can trigger Revenge for the Revenger)
• If you use an all-enemy attack that does five hits of damage (such as Piece of Mind Eddie's Frenzy), there is a 99.84% chance to Revenge (3 * 5 successive 35% chances, because 3 enemies are potentially triggering revenge 5 times each)

It's very important to keep in mind number of hits as the trigger condition for Counter or Revenge when team building and when choosing skills, as otherwise you will just be causing yourself a lot of problems. This isn't a bug; this is how the Counter and Revenge system is implemented to specifically discourage indiscriminate skill usage (based on the examples above, bringing Piece of Mind Eddie in against enemies with Revenge is probably a terrible idea).

Regarding "counter[ing] [...] ally attacks", I don't know of any reports along those lines other than bugs that were solved months ago. If you have more specific details about that, we'd be happy to hear and investigate them (if they are of sufficient detail to be able to be investigated). Information about when the problem occurred (as exact as possible) and/or screenshots of the problem go a long way to investigating problems like this.

[Amarthir]

Mathematics...

This is exactly why I stick to single target hitters, you can just take them out first and there's no problems.

[Askora]

Regarding "counter[ing] [...] ally attacks", I don't know of any reports along those lines other than bugs that were solved months ago. If you have more specific details about that, we'd be happy to hear and investigate them (if they are of sufficient detail to be able to be investigated). Information about when the problem occurred (as exact as possible) and/or screenshots of the problem go a long way to investigating problems like this.

Actually, I posted something about this. I've seen it with WUR with counterstrike talismans. Also seen Sentinel Mayan Priestess revenging when she was targeted.

The specific cases appear to be:

1) WUR with counterstrike. Use a single target hitter to hit one of his allies and do enough damage that he takes damage and he then attacks as though he was hit directly.

2) Use a single target hitter to hit Sentinel Mayan Priestess. Do enough damage that it transfers to the blocker on the defense and she then revenges as though the other toon was attacked.

I believe the revenge also happens sometimes with DoT effects, not certain about the WUR. So both counterstrike and revenge appear to be bugged, unless this is the way it's meant to work.

[Sparton_LOTB]

1) WUR with counterstrike. Use a single target hitter to hit one of his allies and do enough damage that he takes damage and he then attacks as though he was hit directly.

2) Use a single target hitter to hit Sentinel Mayan Priestess. Do enough damage that it transfers to the blocker on the defense and she then revenges as though the other toon was attacked.

As I noted above, the hits of damage is what matters.

If the result of your attack is hitting an enemy with Counter (your first example), then you could be on the receiving end of a Counter.

If the result of your attack is hitting a teammate of someone with Revenge (your second example), then you could be on the receiving end of a Revenge.

Revenge and Counter don't care about who you target; they care about who is taking damage, and how many times damage is being taken (otherwise, you start getting into silly territory like "I used an AoE attack that affects all enemies, but I targeted the person with Revenge, so it shouldn't revenge!"). The trigger condition is, technically speaking, "an instance damage done to character with Counter", or "an instance of damage done to the teammate of someone with Revenge", with each trigger running it's own check to see if the reaction should occur.

I believe the revenge also happens sometimes with DoT effects, [...]

That would be a bit more concerning, as I don't think we have anything in our bug system for countering/revenging based on DoT damage (as DoT damage not an enemy doing damage to you, technically speaking). If you have more information about a scenario of that happening, that may be something we can investigate, but I'd need more specifics.

[Askora]

That would be a bit more concerning, as I don't think we have anything in our bug system for countering/revenging based on DoT damage (as DoT damage not an enemy doing damage to you, technically speaking). If you have more information about a scenario of that happening, that may be something we can investigate, but I'd need more specifics.

I'll have to see if I can create a scenario for that. I don't often use DoT effects, so doesn't often happen to me but I have seen it.

[JJJ428]

Surprised no one mentioned it but this seems like a very light update as well. We are getting to the point where there are not many character changes and if you noticed almost all the changes are for characters that were brought up by the community. I think it is a positive sign that shows they do listen to some of our opinions.

[slauki]

Let me know of the time when you finish a match and that bug happens and I can see if we can grab info from that match to help track down the bug.

It may be that a different bug we have logged has the same underlying problem, but in any case, more info to add to our internal bug tracker may help with narrowing down the cause.

couldn't reproduce this in the last session, will let you know once it happends again.

but found two more things (match time is incuded in the name of the pictures):

1. red lilith doesn't stun every time if the opponent has 3 or more burns. is that intended? realized it first time today two or three times (gpd should be stunned in the picture):



2. shadow talisman have some issues or maybe it'S desert marauder. the perfect hit status come up again after it was removes for some reason. saw this twice today on wrath and on astra:

[90mphyorker]

Correct.

Just another reason for me to keep avoiding teams with her in then.

[Sparton_LOTB]

but found two more things (match time is incuded in the name of the pictures):

What time zone are you? I was going to pass along the info to look up, but without a timezone, the 24 hour time in your images could be any time.

1. red lilith doesn't stun every time if the opponent has 3 or more burns. is that intended? realized it first time today two or three times (gpd should be stunned in the picture):

What are the sources of the burns on those enemies? It's important to note that Deny's requirement requires 3 or more physical burns on the enemy. The Piece of Mind Eddie has more than 3 burns, so he likely meets that requirement, but the Golden Pharaoh Dog has exactly 3 burns... is it possible that he had 3 physical burns, cleansed one with his basic, and then got a non-physical burn applied to him?

(I'll make a note that we should ensure the basic "Physical Burn", "Magical Burn", and "True Burn" should get unique icons, because the distinction matters in cases like this.)

2. shadow talisman have some issues or maybe it'S desert marauder. the perfect hit status come up again after it was removes for some reason. saw this twice today on wrath and on astra:

Perfect Hit + Class Advantage looks like the results of an Advantage Talisman augment (50% chance to apply those on perfect basic attacks).