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  1. #1
    Senior Member slauki's Avatar
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    New broken strategy - stealing energy?

    hey guys,

    would like to discuss one thing here and it's the energy talismans and stealing energy in total. we all know that the talismans are broken, don't wanna discuss that.
    sometimes they steal the energy sometimes they only genereate it. very often they can give a player full energy after one proc.

    but the energy stealing in total is kinda problematic.

    had the situation several times where ONE char stole my whole energy and i was left with a half team and no way to revive. many people also use multiple sets, so chances are big to rip off everything. this can lead to a broken and counterless situation, which shouldn't occour. without energy you cannot heal or revive effective and you are basicly screwed when going 2nd.
    and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

    my suggestion to fix the situation would be:

    1. let the talis steal less energy in general
    2. let them proc less often
    3. let them only generate energy as before
    4. let us only steal energy one time per round
    5. let immunity prevents us from stealing stealing
    6. introduce mores way to generate energy
    7. a combination of some suggestions

    curious to hear what you think about this. i feel this situation is completly broken.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB View Post
    What we as the design team want them to function like: Once chance roll regardless of how many enemies are attacked (for this kind of augment), steal power, not care about Immunity, and be reliable (at least as far as augments are concerned).

    We've gotten them to steal (instead of just generate), it's just a matter of this augment (and some other augments, like Vanish) procing more often than they should based on the number of targets... and in the case of this, stealing more power than is intended. The lead programmer actually committed a change that should allow us to correct that, but it hasn't been tested yet. If that works out well with no knock-ons, the odds for augments like Energy, Vanish, Void, etc will then proc at the correct rates in all situations in a future update.
    Last edited by slauki; 07-13-2017 at 10:50 PM.


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  2. #2
    Senior Member zdm-1083's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post
    curious to hear what you think about this. i feel this situation is completly broken.
    It is broken, right now only counter is to stole energy too.

    AFAIC, previous behavior was fine: 35% proc, steal 3 max
    I also got the impression that it was not working on immune previously.
    Last edited by zdm-1083; 07-11-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Lulero's Avatar
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    While this thread isn't about discussing if it is overpowered or not, I'd just like to say that I've been running them before that "fix" and that my win rate on defense din't move. Moving on.

    The not working on immune needed to be addressed. It wasn't coherent with, say, Cyborg's Tase (or any other "steal" mechanism I can think of right now, related to energy or not).

    Going first with 12 energy vs 0 after first action, can't argue about that one, it's "a bit" out of hand.

    However I believe the "steal" and its reliability are needed so the set stays relevant. That's what allow it to be somewhat a counter to some characters like both magus and gunner corrupt rescuers.
    RETIRED - Lulero-2041 - Cyborg Ed.
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  4. #4
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    The one I really enjoy , is going second. Then have Visions steal all my buffs and energy, Wrath then marks my team and does AoE roughly 8500 points of damage to everyone. Follow that up with a perfect hit from the next member of the team doing 15000 points AoE plus whatever there normal damage does. Since Kaz and Sparton want pvp to be about strategy, I'd like to know what strategy to use against that. If I'm lucky to have anyone still standing, it doesn't matter as I have no energy.

    I was using energy talismans before they got "fixed", and was happy with how they worked. Now, it seems like they are way overpowered. I'd prefer to have them back the way they were, otherwise we end up with talismans that proc at some stupid 12% thing.

  5. #5
    Senior Member slauki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulero View Post

    Going first with 12 energy vs 0 after first action, can't argue about that one, it's "a bit" out of hand.

    However I believe the "steal" and its reliability are needed so the set stays relevant. That's what allow it to be somewhat a counter to some characters like both magus and gunner corrupt rescuers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Askora View Post
    The one I really enjoy , is going second. Then have Visions steal all my buffs and energy, Wrath then marks my team and does AoE roughly 8500 points of damage to everyone. Follow that up with a perfect hit from the next member of the team doing 15000 points AoE plus whatever there normal damage does. Since Kaz and Sparton want pvp to be about strategy, I'd like to know what strategy to use against that. If I'm lucky to have anyone still standing, it doesn't matter as I have no energy.

    I was using energy talismans before they got "fixed", and was happy with how they worked. Now, it seems like they are way overpowered. I'd prefer to have them back the way they were, otherwise we end up with talismans that proc at some stupid 12% thing.
    yeah the 12 vs 0 or 3 scenario is not that uncommon these days and it'S really nasty. you have the disadvantage to go 2nd and you habe the additional disadvantage to go without energy then, that's way to much of a screw up. maybe they should work like siege and doesn't steal the first round?

    and what askora described is also not uncommon, and the worst part is that there is nothing you can do about. the energy sets shuld stay powerfull for sure, but not as gamebreaking as they are right now. you simply don't know what to expect. that's not strategical at all. only option is to steal is back, you are still alive. so you have to use a broken strategy to fight a broken strategy. and we have the same luckfest as several times before (freezefest tauntfest and energyfest now :P ) . so not much strategy involved many times, just close your eyes and pray...well that's not the way i enjoy pvp at least. this way we will loose more and more players every day.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member DaveMurray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askora View Post
    Since Kaz and Sparton want pvp to be about strategy, I'd like to know what strategy to use against that. If I'm lucky to have anyone still standing, it doesn't matter as I have no energy.
    It's simple, go first.
    Oh wait, that's not strategy that's RNG.
    Oh wait, that's what we call pvp here, have the proper toons and go first. Then be happy about it..
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  7. #7
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    I'd like to see all teams be limited to their talisman set ups. No more than 1-2 types of talismans of the same type if they have an effect. Stat boost talismans could be unlimited (eg 15% health or magic etc).

    For example, I played a team which had 2 or 3 strike talisman toons and a NBoL. (Mummy, sentinel SD and Wrath). Lost the coin toss and never got to push a button.

    If that team were limited to one strike talisman and NBoL, maybe it would have been an even fight. The same could be said of a team with one energy set?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMurray View Post
    It's simple, go first.
    Oh wait, that's not strategy that's RNG.
    Oh wait, that's what we call pvp here, have the proper toons and go first. Then be happy about it..
    "Then be happy about it" lol you win this thread.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hypnos's Avatar
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    The only counter to this strategy, is fight fire with fire. Deploy a character with an energy set and keep it an even battleground. Saying this, it makes no sense to turn the arena into an energy transferring centre. This ought to be amended soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOsiris View Post
    If that team were limited to one strike talisman and NBoL, maybe it would have been an even fight. The same could be said of a team with one energy set?
    All it takes is one energy set on one character to steal up to 12 energy. Broken? Probably.
    mammy-7388

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lulero's Avatar
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    IMO, this set and several others should proc on basic attack regardless of the number of target, hit or miss, and be adjusted accordingly. Meaning same odds and same amount of energy stolen no matter what it faces.

    But it should still steal, bypass immunity (like all? other steals do) and be reliable. Otherwise it will most probably turn from broken to useless.
    RETIRED - Lulero-2041 - Cyborg Ed.
    "Time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted time" - B. Russel

    Toons I maxed after Cyborg, chronologically ordered:
    Allied Bomber Boy, Pyro Soldier, Corrupt Rescuer, The Nomad, Wrath
    Run to the Hill Ed., Grim Reaper Ed., Angel of Fear, Soulless Demon
    Desert Marauder, Undead Rescuer, Pharaoh Dog, Death Dog
    Corrupt General

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