Guardian Rumble (Arena) - Featuring EXCLUSIVE Talismans!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Grab Rare Sentinel Souls, Sentinel Legendary Souls, exclusive talismans, and more by achieving milestones in the Arena!

From now until April 21st, 5 PM PT, there are new event challenges added to the Challenges screen. These reward you for getting a certain amount of wins in the Arena before the event is over:


Win 10 Arena battles: Rare Sentinel Soul x1 + True Talisman x1
Win 30 Arena battles: Rare Sentinel Soul x1 + Skill Shard x1 + Heal Talisman x1
Win 75 Arena battles: Sentinel Legendary Soul x1 + True Talisman x1 [FULL SET!] + Heal Talisman x1 + Sacrificial Talisman x1
Win 150 Arena battles: Rare Sentinel Soul x3 + Skill Shard x1 + Heal Talisman x1 [FULL SET!] + Sacrificial Talisman x1
Win 300 Arena battles: Rare Sentinel Soul x3 + Sacrificial Talisman x1 [FULL SET!]


In addition, there are stretch goal reward tiers for every 100 wins beyond 300 (to a max of 1000 wins), that gets you Sentinel Legendary Soul x1 + Skill Shard x2 + True Talisman x1 + Heal Talisman x1 + Sacrificial Talisman x1 for each stretch goal achieved!

You’ll notice that many of the rewards from this event are talismans. Collect these powerful sets to gain an edge in the Arena (and elsewhere!) before they become available in the future:

Sacrificial Talismans are green talismans with a 3 set effect that is not available anywhere else! Equip a full set to full heal all allies when the equipped character dies!

Heal Talismans are green talismans with a 3 set effect that is not available anywhere else! Equip a full set to get a Healing Wind skill, which is a Power Skill that heals all allies!

True Talismans are green talismans with a 2 set effect. Equip a full set to start battle with a True Damage Reduction Shield, which reduces true damage taken by 70%!

You can check your progress at any time by going to the Event tab of the Challenges screen. These rewards will be immediately delivered to you via loot chest at the end of the battle when you meet the milestone requirement. There is no waiting until after the event is over, and no need to manually claim from the Challenges screen!

Finally, we have a series of tie-in promotional store items in the shop. If you find yourself short the wins to get to a tier that will finish a talisman set, you can buy a single copy of a desired talisman for Ironite, and if you’d like to get a full set of each talisman with some bonus Ironite, Gold and Sands of War, there is a one-time only offer as an IAP.

[Liebhild]

Apma, Apma, Apma

Finally find someone, that knows what he is doing

[Kurzgesagt]

Oh, cool, an arena event for those who have the best characters, talismans and relics ...

Okay, I will not complain. I am very happy with these new talismans, it seems that it will be very useful in my Golden Son (Sentinel). It is good to see that you have heard our feedback and have not been corrupted by the pay-to-win side of the games of this capitalist world. This is how a good event has to be: great challenges, great rewards, and the means to achieve the same thing investing in the game otherwise.

Good job guys!

[R1ck]

My weak defense is on, enjoy!

[Diamondhead2112]

Also running weak defense. Gentlemen, you may kill at will

[90mphyorker]

Nice rewards and weak defence put up like usual. Want to aim for 600 but I know I’ll get fed up and stop at 300. Relics, coin toss and work no doubt will stop me as I know I’ll lose 100+ if I aim for 600. Doubt I’ll have the paitence to complete 700 battles. Wish it was battles completed with a minimum win %. But ah well, will never happen.

[Symbiote]

Mmh, i wish they would change these kind of events that defense wins count.... this would be a very good advantage AND time saving at these 24/7 Arena Events... :/
And i don't think that we can call it really PvP... The Defense is controlled by AI and a lot of Bugs.. :D

But the good thing is.., that these talis will come later, that this time the Event isn't that important too reach the 300. But i aim for it.. we will see. :D

[Sponholz]

I still think that 300 Wins is a LOT with the current state of the game...

And of course they would only put not-game changing Talismans behind events with no IAP involved.

This talis are not that good, there are better green 3 sets talis that are more significant then this, so they are "ok" to be given.


Weak-er men defense UP, feel free to engage.

... Ed.

[Giacomo Farinacci]

How much does the power skill of Heal talisman cost?!? If it is 10, they are useless. This is not a information to hide!

[Saigrim]

One Iron Eddie defense.

Beat the gui-tar out of him.

[satani]

gotta admit, i liked the Character Fragment events more in PVP. Way more players have set weak defenses back then.
Sacrifice talisman seems interesting, yet a green x3 Talisman Set that heals when he is killed? I'd rather seen this effect for a purple set.
Gunning for the 75 fights, but not spending ironites on refills.

[surfingwithdje]

How much does the power skill of Heal talisman cost?!? If it is 10, they are useless. This is not a information to hide!

The power cost is only 4 and the healing is good (10000 hp for all the team in the first test i did) , those talismants looks very usefull :)

[Mizrael]

There is one thing i don’t get:
Why are the event talismans always the shitty subpar which NF created as a “half solution” to the issue of having a useless subpar?!

For those who haven’t been around since the release- here is a short recap:

When the game first came out, the 3 talisman subpars were flawed (just like alot of other bad,bad design ideas,the original team created). For example red FIERCE had a much higher Str value than the other 2, hence making it a no brainer to use anything else than fierce.

When REPORTED BY THE COMMUNITY (no, they didn’t notice that themselves) NF just nerfed the value to the level of the other 2 subpars- making skilled subpar completely useless.

After MONTHS of players complaining about it they first released Viking Eddie, claiming that “there will be more characters in the future, which will profit from those subpars” and then they just went with a “temporary”(read “swept under the carpet and forgotten”)solution and changed the useless subpars to add some more stats.

Sadly, we haven’t seen any characters with a use of skilled,sorcery,mystical or onslaught subpars till this day.

Have you ever tried to equip a gunner with only onslaught talismans? well...don’t bother! they will do around 300dmg!

Why not just completely delete those subpars from the game instead of asking the players to pay real money for them?!

[Blade]

There is one thing i don’t get:
Why are the event talismans always the shitty subpar which NF created as a “half solution” to the issue of having a useless subpar?!

For those who haven’t been around since the release- here is a short recap:

When the game first came out, the 3 talisman subpars were flawed (just like alot of other bad,bad design ideas,the original team created). For example red FIERCE had a much higher Str value than the other 2, hence making it a no brainer to use anything else than fierce.

When REPORTED BY THE COMMUNITY (no, they didn’t notice that themselves) NF just nerfed the value to the level of the other 2 subpars- making skilled subpar completely useless.

After MONTHS of players complaining about it they first released Viking Eddie, claiming that “there will be more characters in the future, which will profit from those subpars” and then they just went with a “temporary”(read “swept under the carpet and forgotten”)solution and changed the useless subpars to add some more stats.

Sadly, we haven’t seen any characters with a use of skilled,sorcery,mystical or onslaught subpars till this day.

Have you ever tried to equip a gunner with only onslaught talismans? well...don’t bother! they will do around 300dmg!

Why not just completely delete those subpars from the game instead of asking the players to pay real money for them?!

I would say it depends on your strategy! But for farming I agree most of these Talis are not the best choice.
For PVP it is different. I will not go into details, but some remarks:

- for some toons damage scales with DEF or MR
- not all toons are designed to do a lot of damage
- some toons really need some DEF and MR to survive

[MoonShadow]

The solution to those subpar talismans would be that talisman type converter and anyone could choose whatever they want for a specific Eddie / ally / team composition.

[MrFreeze]

I’m kind of glad the rewards aren’t anything great. These events are my least favorite. Pvp is annoying and takes longer than ever now. I’ll be lucky to make it to 75 wins. I put a crap defense in to help people out, but I probably won’t play enough to show up on lists very often.

[Blade]

The solution to those subpar talismans would be that talisman type converter and anyone could choose whatever they want for a specific Eddie / ally / team composition.

Nice idea, but I doubt this will happen. Grinding for the things you need / wish is a basic principle of the game...

Back to topic:
Personally I do not like these arena events very much. When this type of even was released for the first time, it was exciting. And back then, it was about the number of MATCHES not (!) WINS. This was ok, but could be "exploited". Whatever expoit means in that case from NF perspective. Even if not only wins count, I am sure people needed to buy refills to achive the goals. Also I learnt that time that I can climb quite high in the ranks, more as I thought! This was cool, but this is over since relics were introduced. Moreover I dislike that only few poeple set a funny weak defence. I assume this might me related to the relics (I want to point out again: very bad decision to have them in PVP and not only in PVE. It was a brilliant concent that almost everybody could win against everybody). Moreover I do not like the strech goals. They encourage people to do really aim for 1000 wins. In my opinion this is just insane. I cannot understand anyone doing so many battles. This brings me to the next point: normally, 300 wins was the sweet spot because you complete a respective talisman set and normally get some nice bonus rewards. Why was this changes this time? For a normal player, that has some other responsibilites in life, 300 wins a really a challenge and should be awarded better!

[Giacomo Farinacci]

Ok. Seems good. Tv very much for the info

[Giacomo Farinacci]

The power cost is only 4 and the healing is good (10000 hp for all the team in the first test i did) , those talismants looks very usefull :)

Android
Posts
27
Ok. Seems good. Tv very much for the info

[MoonShadow]

Nice idea, but I doubt this will happen. Grinding for the things you need / wish is a basic principle of the game...Yes, I know, it won't happen. Unfortunatelly.


OT: I didn't like this kind of Arena events since the beginning. Way too many matches to be played = too much time wasted with the game. Still, I've played as much as I could, although I never got anything good out of the reward souls --> now I've got a complete uselless 10th Sentinel Golden Son out of the Legendary Sentinel Soul........

Also, this current event is really annoying; since the introduction of the Relics, once you enter in top 100, you're gonna be eaten by the big sharks and waste the SoW, besides the time. Not good.

[edsel]

so another word for "skilled,sorcery,mystical or onslaught" would be sell? yes i did power 6 onslaught boost talismans and equip to gunner powerpuff chick and BOOM lowest crap damage ever, and after sahrding her and powering her did a rage-inspired vortex, then finding out later she is actually good and i set up wrong. OK I am new compared to most and can blame only a few months into the game and not understanding but they should not have useless junk out there in the arena for rewards, what a non-incentive for stretch goals. extra crap that will never be powered or used

[Yup]

Note that some of the more defensive talismans do actually help some characters. It all depended on WHAT scales their damage. For example Onslaught talismans are good for characters where DEF boosts damage.

Admittedly these types of characters are not prolific in the game though.

I do think it's a complete shame that when there's an event.. you get the defensive talismans, not the actual boosting talismans. Then later, the better class talismans are generally only offered as a sale item (like 800 iron coins or for actual $).

[hold]

Yes, I know, it won't happen. Unfortunatelly.


OT: I didn't like this kind of Arena events since the beginning. Way too many matches to be played = too much time wasted with the game. Still, I've played as much as I could, although I never got anything good out of the reward souls --> now I've got a complete uselless 10th Sentinel Golden Son out of the Legendary Sentinel Soul........

Also, this current event is really annoying; since the introduction of the Relics, once you enter in top 100, you're gonna be eaten by the big sharks and waste the SoW, besides the time. Not good.

I got another bomber boy ...

I'm playing like this: refresh every 30 minutes and try to get some weaker defenses. A good night sleep and hope for a decent drop as my defense are 4 clowns. Red 4 winged bitch with echo really pisses me off as she always gets. 2nf turn and most of the times 3. Since golden buffs can be taken or erased you get destroyed if you go 2nd.

I started a match and went to get something to drink. I came back and had my Visions standing there on its own with a very short red health bar. OK, sometimes you loose but I would like to have a chance at least... But getting hit twice by 30000+ points ... Hmmm

So please bash the shit out of my clowns and drop me a few hundred spots because fighting the teams with insane AI defense bonus plus stacked with relics is just a waste of resources.

[Mizrael]

I would say it depends on your strategy! But for farming I agree most of these Talis are not the best choice.
For PVP it is different. I will not go into details, but some remarks:

- for some toons damage scales with DEF or MR
- not all toons are designed to do a lot of damage
- some toons really need some DEF and MR to survive


Note that some of the more defensive talismans do actually help some characters. It all depended on WHAT scales their damage. For example Onslaught talismans are good for characters where DEF boosts damage.

Admittedly these types of characters are not prolific in the game though.

I do think it's a complete shame that when there's an event.. you get the defensive talismans, not the actual boosting talismans. Then later, the better class talismans are generally only offered as a sale item (like 800 iron coins or for actual $).

I remember testing a couple of characters with Def/Mr scaling damages over a year ago and i came to a conclusion that thay all profited more from their offensive stat.
Feel free to PM me a setup i’ve missed (i promise i won’t tell anyone).

Let’s take Onslaught as an example...

Having a gunner equipped with 6 onslaught talismans: you lose 1572 of Str/Mag (dealing practically no damage) and gain 786 to def/mr. But let’s not forget that you also lose 7254 HP.

What about true damage? it ignores your def/mr. so...wouldn’t you rather have some more HP to withstand a couple more hits?

And why would you need to last longer with high Def/Mr when you do no damage and all your other toons are long dead? you’re just wasting your opponents time...
You gotta kill them before they kill you! ;)

[Amarthir]

More health and atk/mgk is my go to. You can always reduce damage with Shields and passives so Def/MR are pretty ineffective. Especially since true damage exists

[Stormseye]

152 wins no reward for the tier..thanks APM error..

[Yup]

Well, I'd never suggest using all Onslaught on ANY toon. They are support talismans.. so 2 Bulwark then 1 Onslaught.. or 2 Will and 1 Onslaught. Bt yeah, I tend to stick to Bulwark and Will for PvP toons. But when farming levels. they can come in handy when you know how charters are going to hit and there's no real threat of anyone dying.

I'm not arguing :) Merely stating they aren't worthless.

And it is a cheap move that NF always makes those the types available with a direct pay to play purchase.

[Blade]

I remember testing a couple of characters with Def/Mr scaling damages over a year ago and i came to a conclusion that thay all profited more from their offensive stat.
Feel free to PM me a setup i’ve missed (i promise i won’t tell anyone).

Let’s take Onslaught as an example...

Having a gunner equipped with 6 onslaught talismans: you lose 1572 of Str/Mag (dealing practically no damage) and gain 786 to def/mr. But let’s not forget that you also lose 7254 HP.

What about true damage? it ignores your def/mr. so...wouldn’t you rather have some more HP to withstand a couple more hits?

And why would you need to last longer with high Def/Mr when you do no damage and all your other toons are long dead? you’re just wasting your opponents time...
You gotta kill them before they kill you! ;)

Sorry to disappoint you, but I won't tell my secret strategy :D
It is not that special, but I am really happy with it and it fits nicely to my needs. What are my needs? Well I cannot play as much PVP as many of the other players. So I need to assure a high win %, and it works. I normally have >95% wins. Usually on saturday I can only play 10-15 matches due to life. So I try to be in top 100 and I am ok to drop to top 250. I can do this with 130-140 matches normally. That's why I don't like the arena events very much. I "have" to double my input. When I have time on saturdays I get into top 50 (with ~20 matches more) or even top 25, but relics made things much more difficult and longer! I have not tried for top 25 since relics came out. Longer? That is because I do not go for a team with all put into offense stats and hope to get the coin toss. Also a blocker doesn't suit me, as all beneficials are stolen so easily with the current meta. I always plan to lose the toss and try to make sure that I can recover afterwards and take control of the battle. Balance is very important in my strategy. I only have 2 Eddies for PVP, but thats fine. I could shard many many more, but I just don't have the time to try around and make new match plans. Especially as you have to be able to react to certain shifts in the meta due to character tuning.

I also do not specifically go for toons that have this DEF/MR scaling for damage. And I am also sure that it is not more efficient than boosting ATK/MAG directly. Rather they add up together or multiply!? I don't know and don't have the time to test. I would never recommend 6*Onslaught. Apart from that I have not a single toon equipped with only one color of Talis for PVP. But I have one toon with 3*Onslaught and 2*Mystical and I am quite happy with it. It is not ment to do damage but to support. I don't buy talisman sets for cash, so I try to make the best use out of what I have. Also: 3*Onslaught don't help in regard of damage, but the other talis should do that. If your 3 Onslaughts are Chance talis, this gives a good balance in my opinion. In general I really use Mystical very often. Because I think if you compare 100 DEF or MR to 100 ATK or MAG, the defence stats are more beneficial for sure. Also I think it is stupid that you can only have ATK+DEF or MAG+MR together with the other sub-types. Moreover, apart from some few guardian sets I do not use shields at all, I need my Talis for other purposes! Of course, true damage is another thing. Boosting HP is done by green and yellow Talis but also by relics of course. But in the current meta, not too many toons with true damage are around, or? Rather "random" damage, so I can live with that. Moreover I like toons that scale with stats of the enemy! That is very cool in my opinion and gives you many more options and strategies.

[The Educated fool]

Is anyone else finding the game plagued with bugs this event, or is it just me that's the designated bug-bitch this time? Seriously, I'm getting crashes every other turn, and it's already cost me my Tier 3 rewards! Even more fun than that: I filed a ticket with support, and they answered, but when I checked my account, I still didn't have the talis in my inventory, nor the Sentinel Legendary (that is surely destined to drop me another AoS anyway) in my Book of Souls! I can't say I'm entirely thrilled, at the moment...

[Ironstyle]

It's been buggy for me, too. I've gotten my rewards (allied bomber boy for the umpteenth time from the legendary soul), but a lot of crashes happening.

[T-Man]

Is anyone else finding the game plagued with bugs this event, or is it just me that's the designated bug-bitch this time? Seriously, I'm getting crashes every other turn, and it's already cost me my Tier 3 rewards! Even more fun than that: I filed a ticket with support, and they answered, but when I checked my account, I still didn't have the talis in my inventory, nor the Sentinel Legendary (that is surely destined to drop me another AoS anyway) in my Book of Souls! I can't say I'm entirely thrilled, at the moment...

Yes it’s a mess. Constant errors, and general weirdness. I’m still waiting on support from the last arena event. They must be completely overwhelmed, or perhaps just not worried about bugs that aren’t in their favor.

[MoonShadow]

I got another bomber boy ...All right, the 1000th ABB came to me out of the 3 sentinel souls received from reaching 150 wins. Yey!


Is anyone else finding the game plagued with bugs this event, or is it just me that's the designated bug-bitch this time?Same here, I've got a lot of errors every single day since the event has started, most of them were resolved by itself after waiting a couple of minutes, but I've had to restart the game in some cases. Also, last night, I've got some strange errors, as the in-game messages said that I had to restart the game due to new data being available but, no new data was available, of course... :)

[Rane]

I would be happy with ABB, only character i get all the time is Golden son or Newborn of light...

[Sick]

Game crashed on my 300th victory - no rewards. I am really fed up about the instability of the game. I guess I received no IC for at least 5% of my wins due to that. I start to feel like playing some 1990‘s online game on a 9.6 K modem.

[Bradata]

Game crashed on my 300th victory - no rewards. I am really fed up about the instability of the game. I guess I received no IC for at least 5% of my wins due to that. I start to feel like playing some 1990‘s online game on a 9.6 K modem.

I have the same, all the time I get some errors and the newest one is for new game mode available and I have to restart the game right after my win in PVP :mad:
Never played other games but recently started Marvel's Strike Force and I never had ANY errors there!

[Sick]

Same here „new game mode error“ seems to be the latest invention of the devs. Seems like we will all meet in Marvels soon. Even Slauki has become really quite since he is playing it.

[T-Man]

Update yesterday didn’t fix anything. I just got another new game data restart message. Not on wi-fi at the moment so I can’t update for a while. Hopefully some things get fixed. Namely the server errors.

[Symbiote]

My goal was 300 but like the last arena event..,
But the last one, was heavy to achieve because of the time, the arena bugs.., and the toooo many wins to achieve..,
i think this time i will work towards the 150 and then i will be done..!

So much people are saying the same.., that these arena events are too time consuming, especially if you have a real life..,
I don't get it how people can get to the 1000 wins... oO I find it very hard to only get to the 300 because of TIME, bordedom one fight after anonther.., and errors where your wins don't count (and losing IC) and bugs (but i have to mention that it gets better. : )
And atm i have a bit more time then usually but 300 are too much for me.., i don't want to waste my time for one damn set of new talismans.., (and i know i don't have to do it, but that's not the reason for complaining. ^^)

And you as Developers SHOULD know it best.., can you easily go to the 300, 400, 500 if you work all the time? Do you think about all the people who have a real life? Or only them who have that much time, that they can play 24/7 the arena to get to 1000 wins? oO

PLEASE change the damn Arena events.., the last update was the best i ever saw since i started playing, the Auto-Replay is awesome, and it changes a lot to play this game while doing other free time things, or do more important things like work or whatever... You can do it, but please just do it. :D
One thing i mentioned everytime could be, to make the defense wins count as wins too....

But at this state i think, the Arena events aren't a good thing..

But that's what i think about Arena.., i like how the Game evolves and i hope that you will hold the quality of the last Update which was GREAT. :)

[Ogami]

I don't get it how people can get to the 1000 wins

I am struggling for 75 lol.

[Amarthir]

>Be me
>90 wins in so far,
>My goal is 150
>I have no real drive for even that
>Today I'm in a good mood
>Open up the game and put in some grinding music
>Play a couple battles and win, things are going well
>"We are now undergoing maintenance,"


4515

[Reeb99]

I'm going to settle for 150 wins. I did 300 on the last pvp event, and was sick of playing the game by that time. I don't know how people can stand going for 500 or more.

[RobG-9641]

The level of Relics at the top spots are so out of proportion to majority of players, finishing at the top is no longer impressive. Arena is so broken, Eternal is a meaningless title... Calling it out for what it is. No disrespect to any individual players, it’s the flaw of the game now.

[Yup]

Its always been pointless... top slots have always gone to players who either spend more or have way more time to play than anyone else. If you thought otherwise you were kidding yourself :)

Relics merely made it MORE apparent, made scores higher, and made it EASIER for top players, but they haven't really changed the names near the top.

[Sponholz]

Yeah Yup I get your point, but...

Before the relics the chance to beat then was there. If you would be paired with then while doing your Arena matches you had a chance to win from those teams, man, I remember when I faced Kamuz, Mariner, Slauki, Carlos, basically any top player's team and I beat those teams, was the best feeling ever, and to me, I knew that if I really wanted on the next week I could compete with then.

To say the relics just made it more apparent is something I don't agree with, they made it impossible for any average player to even beat those teams. The run for Eternal was always whoever had more time during the week, and now it's basically impossible to catch up.

... Cmdr. Ed. Out!

[Yup]

They really created a system where they merely continually reward the top 25 arena players. That's all. And the only way to become one of those top 25 players is for one of the existing 25 to stop playing.

I don't fault the players... it's the horrible mechanics of it all.

[Kurzgesagt]

I refuse to play this any more until they delete the relics. This week I went as far as I ever got in the Arena, rank # 55, but then I started picking up whole teams with relics up to the ass.
There is no point in playing a game in which you do not have the MINIMUM chance to beat your opponent.

Just running troopers like a bot now.

[Yup]

What they should have done is price all relics the same across the board... Tier 1 costs 100 IC regardless of class, tier 2 250IC, tier 3 400IC etc... Maybe price the global relics at 2x the cost of class relics. Then limit relic purchases to 1 a week, maybe 2. That would have SLOWLY created a divide rather than throwing a huge chasm into the ranking right away. And it would have been more strategy as to which relics you bought first.

[Sponholz]

...
I don't fault the players... it's the horrible mechanics of it all.

I agree 100% with you about this.

...Cmdr. Ed. Out!

[Blade]

What they should have done is price all relics the same across the board... Tier 1 costs 100 IC regardless of class, tier 2 250IC, tier 3 400IC etc... Maybe price the global relics at 2x the cost of class relics. Then limit relic purchases to 1 a week, maybe 2. That would have SLOWLY created a divide rather than throwing a huge chasm into the ranking right away. And it would have been more strategy as to which relics you bought first.

This would have been perfect! As it is the same for many other shop items. And it would have streched the waiting time for this other source of IC that should be available "soon".

[Blade]

I am at 228 wins right now. So maybe I can reach my goal of 300 wins, but it is no fun at all.

[MoonShadow]

I've managed to reach 300 games, but it was hard. Very hard. Maintained a lone Eddie for the whole week, to stay low in the ranks, but still was hard to fight and win so many battles. Those Relics are horrible!

[Stormseye]

305 wins here. I may have refilled sands 3-4 times rest was just freebies. There was definitely more weak defense out there than prior events and of all my fights I would be safe to say that 90% were against weak defense.

[Ogami]

Hit my 75, pulled a Viking Eddie. Wanted POM Eddie but can't complain I guess?

[Moonchild-6759]

I am at 325 hoping to get 400 tomorrow. I would have been much closer if the bug of getting a loose even when winning wasn’t present. I rarely complain about bugs but really?? I cannot see how it can be hard to write code that makes sure you win when you win...