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View Full Version : Reducing HP by 10% is not a good idea as it is



Grim
04-18-2018, 09:57 AM
Nice idea adding a status that lower the max HP by 10% however, setting it as PERMANENT for the whole battle seems a little too much. A negative status which keeps piling up and can't be removed is rather unbalanced, it has to change by putting a time limit or adding a positive status that raise by 10% the max HP.

scott-5496
04-18-2018, 10:03 AM
I am sure they will come up with a new Talisman soon that does exactly that - maybe as part of a May event simialr to what we have now. That is usually the cycle of things. Put out Necropolis and toons that can do it then for the next meta change provide a counter to that (through an event or through ironite/). They have to make money somewhere and to keep people playing and this is a common approach for free to download games abd I am fine with that.

I came up against a team with Necropolis on three toons and it was a bit scary. But with a revive I was OK as that cleaned that off my toons to start again.

Askora
04-18-2018, 12:37 PM
The counter talismans will probably be a common drop in night city. So, don't worry it's coming soon! :rolleyes:

jeff-3007
04-18-2018, 01:41 PM
I am sure they will come up with a new Talisman soon that does exactly that - maybe as part of a May event simialr to what we have now. That is usually the cycle of things. Put out Necropolis and toons that can do it then for the next meta change provide a counter to that (through an event or through ironite/). They have to make money somewhere and to keep people playing and this is a common approach for free to download games abd I am fine with that.

I came up against a team with Necropolis on three toons and it was a bit scary. But with a revive I was OK as that cleaned that off my toons to start again.

I thought you could only purchase 1 set for $9.99 in the store. How did somebody get 3 sets?

Yup
04-18-2018, 02:27 PM
Revive counters it..... the toon revives without the block.

Askora
04-18-2018, 03:00 PM
Revive counters it..... the toon revives without the block.

I wouldn't really call that a counter, since you can't revive a toon that isn't dead or that is killed with permadeath or ghost. Lose the coin toss and you're guaranteed to lose max health. Making the talismans available only for cash purchase takes the game a big step forward towards the pay to win category.

Reeb99
04-18-2018, 03:07 PM
That line of ACRs in GOD 9 is brutal now. I don't buy that the Warrior Allied Soldier is a valid counter, either. Who wants to waste space on a weak character that has to use a power move to somewhat counter what other characters can do on basic attacks?

They need to either scale back the 10 percent to 5 OR make a heal skill that can cleanse it.

Amarthir
04-18-2018, 03:33 PM
At the moment it's a rather interesting type of skill that was obviously made to counter the high health meta that people didn't like before. There isn't much of a counter at the current time, but I think that a possibile counter is Piece of Mind Eddie's power move that doubles everyone's health. Obviously that's not a good enough counter right now but we just gotta wait until they release more characters who can double team health.

Yup
04-18-2018, 03:33 PM
Well the 2X HP also makes the HP block a bit irrelevant. 10% of 2X HP is a sliver in most cases. So PoM Eddie or the W Soldier help there. I suspect that the 2x HP is seen as a bit of a counter.

What bothers me is invisibility or invincibility don't prevent the attack. If a toon is in a state where it can't be hit.. then how is its HP being blocked??? At the very least Invisibility and Invincibility should cause the block to NOT take effect.

Amarthir
04-18-2018, 03:38 PM
Well the 2X HP also makes the HP block a bit irrelevant. 10% of 2X HP is a sliver in most cases. So PoM Eddie or the W Soldier help there. I suspect that the 2x HP is seen as a bit of a counter.

What bothers me is invisibility or invincibility don't prevent the attack. If a toon is in a state where it can't be hit.. then how is its HP being blocked??? At the very least Invisibility and Invincibility should cause the block to NOT take effect.

I agree, ^ at the bare minimum, Perfect Immunity should protect

Yup
04-18-2018, 03:43 PM
I agree, ^ at the bare minimum, Perfect Immunity should protect

Well I can see an argument against immunity, perfect or otherwise. I mean, it's technically not a buff. Although, I'm not opposed to immunity preventing it :)

The thing is... if no damage can be done due to a buff... then how is damage being done??? It's not logical that invisibility and invincibility don't prevent the block.

Askora
04-18-2018, 03:44 PM
Well the 2X Hp is fine for the warrior soldier, but since he doesn't share it, it does nothing for the rest of the team. Also, the 2X HP isn't a forever benefit and is subject to being removed or stolen.

Invisibility, invincibility, immunity and cleanse all have no effect making it essentially a godlike effect as their isn't anything aside from the character dying and being revived to remove it. It should have a counter, or be time limited like perfect corruption.

Yup
04-18-2018, 03:46 PM
I'm not arguing that :) I agree. There should be some ability to remove the block. Perfect Cleanse or something. or Perfect Heal.

slauki
04-18-2018, 03:49 PM
Well the 2X Hp is fine for the warrior soldier, but since he doesn't share it, it does nothing for the rest of the team. Also, the 2X HP isn't a forever benefit and is subject to being removed or stolen.

Invisibility, invincibility, immunity and cleanse all have no effect making it essentially a godlike effect as their isn't anything aside from the character dying and being revived to remove it. It should have a counter, or be time limited like perfect corruption.
i'm completly with askora. the reviving technique is a poor counter. you can only revive is you are alive and the char didn't die with permadeath. also 2x health for the soldier...well try ti fight a team with him alone... yeah it's pretty godlike and this needs a serious counter imo. i'm positive we will see that, just not positive it will be soon. (actually there is one thing you can do if you are lucky poms fury will remove it...but well it will take some time to cast it)

Yup
04-18-2018, 03:51 PM
Thing is PoM fury removes ALL buffs including yours! :)

Stormseye
04-18-2018, 04:56 PM
I am still of the belief that regular immunity should not block it. Sitting on the fence about Perfect Immunity blocking it. The reason is characters like SSE. He can steal every buff you have, invisibility and Invulnerability notwithstanding. Also look at buff stealers like Mayan Priestess,Allied General and WUR. They can steal power/fury/buffs no matter what buffs you have. I have had AG/Priestess steal power/fury/invisibilty all in one "counterstrike". How is that any more fair than 10% HP reduce? That is one hit and yes exceptions can be done when you face three chars all with Necro talisman but how much fun is it when you also face Visions/Red Lil/Gun Lil/AG all with counterstrike/echo talisman? I think Perfect Immunity may stop the buff theft but they can still steal fury and power. I would be comfortable in saying that a majority of the fights I have won with ACR are more a result of her damage and attack/magic debuff. Nothing settles down an angry Red Lilith/Samurai like a Attack down debuff.

There were a few other characters that received the HP reduce skill added to their abilities.

Assassin Mayan Priestess - Snuff Out -10% - Single target
Sentinel Corrupt Droid - Salvage - 5% - Single target

There are probably more but I don't have them.

If anything blocks it, I would consider Perfect Immunity only, but then we need to review the abilities of some of the other buff stealers like the above mentioned. In any case, it is not a game breaker by any stretch and given the current meta shifts it won't be a problem for long.

Amarthir
04-18-2018, 06:56 PM
Thing is PoM fury removes ALL buffs including yours! :)

I enjoy taking advantage of that mechanic though. When you have allies that can all grant team buffs, and use the fury move when you have a good 3-5 buffs on each ally, it does crazy damage.


I am still of the belief that regular immunity should not block it. Sitting on the fence about Perfect Immunity blocking it. The reason is characters like SSE. He can steal every buff you have, invisibility and Invulnerability notwithstanding. Also look at buff stealers like Mayan Priestess,Allied General and WUR. They can steal power/fury/buffs no matter what buffs you have.

My reasoning behind Perfect Immunity being able to block HP reduction is that it CAN'T be stolen by conventional characters. Only Visions Eddie can really steal golden buffs right? That's what makes him really special.

Reeb99
04-18-2018, 08:16 PM
Assassin Troll can transform golden buffs into marks according to the updated description, but can't steal them. It doesn't work on ghost though, I've already tried it.

Back in the day, SOL Eddie could steal all buffs, including ghost. That was nerfed shortly after NF took over. They didn't like that people were using him and CRE to defeat The Beast easily.

Sponholz
04-18-2018, 08:27 PM
Oh boy... I will keep my reply really simple...

Posts like this are worthless right now. The wheel in already rolling, time to rollback some decisions has passed and are now gone.

Release Relics (poor, like, really poor decision if you ask me) > Release THE ONLY Counter to huge HP Pools behind a paywall (Necropolis Talis) > Stone cold silence about anything regarding this from the staff > The pattern I have been saying since day 1 from the Relics is already taking a reasonable shape/form.

And lets not forget the usual: "it may be a very long time until you get another chance!" that ends every new event announcement (ok this is meant for the characters, but we should've already know that this extends to Talis and any other thing that is new or "debuting".)

... Cmdr Ed. Out!

Stormseye
04-18-2018, 08:42 PM
Magus Chopper can also steal all buff including Golden Buffs. Assassin Troll has a 35% chance to convert Golden Buffs to Marks but thats about the extent of golden buff manipulation out there. Still very limited considering how many Golden buffs are prevenlant in the meta right now.

Cefiar
04-18-2018, 10:13 PM
Assassin Corrupted Rescuer can remove Golden buffs FWIW. I've used this against SSE with good effect (to get rid of that infinite turn resurrect buff after he's used his fury).

Also does the 10% HP reduction thing as well.

Nifelheim
04-19-2018, 05:57 AM
Oh boy... I will keep my reply really simple...

Posts like this are worthless right now. The wheel in already rolling, time to rollback some decisions has passed and are now gone.

Release Relics (poor, like, really poor decision if you ask me) > Release THE ONLY Counter to huge HP Pools behind a paywall (Necropolis Talis) > Stone cold silence about anything regarding this from the staff > The pattern I have been saying since day 1 from the Relics is already taking a reasonable shape/form.

And lets not forget the usual: "it may be a very long time until you get another chance!" that ends every new event announcement (ok this is meant for the characters, but we should've already know that this extends to Talis and any other thing that is new or "debuting".)

... Cmdr Ed. Out!

Necropolis talismans is only one counter, ACR is another. And the relics anxiety seems to be unfounded. I'm at 70% global health, with some class health added, and my win rate is about the same (78-88%) and my def wins havnt changed either (18-20%). I have experimented with def lines including sharding gunner pharaoh to using necropolis talismans (havnt maxed ACR yet, but suspect she won't hold well on def line).

Reeb99
04-19-2018, 08:47 PM
The thing is, there was already a counter to the high health meta. Strip their buffs, apply defense down and ignite (Hunt skill does both) and then crush them. Those super high health Visions eddies aren't that big of a deal if you have an auto cleanse.