20,000

[druid138]

Congrats, Carlos! Breaking 20,000 is mind-blowing!

[Blade]

I cannot congratulate on that. It is insane! Nothing personal of course! The top3 has now 11k, 18k and 20k.
It is a shame that NF encourages this kind of crazyness by the strech goals and the run for relics! It is irresponsibility at its finest.
I mean these guys are in danger to not seeing any daylight for the whole week. They might lose their jobs, friends and families - if they have anything out of that. We could now estimate the amount of ironite needed for that and convert it to real money. I would assume to see some alarming numbers!
Of course, everybody is responsible for him/her self in regards of spending time and money on a mobile game, as well as when to start considering that as an addiction and when to see a doctor.
Take care, you guys!

[slauki]

I cannot congratulate on that. It is insane! Nothing personal of course! The top3 has now 11k, 18k and 20k.
It is a shame that NF encourages this kind of crazyness by the strech goals and the run for relics! It is irresponsibility at its finest.
I mean these guys are in danger to not seeing any daylight for the whole week. They might lose their jobs, friends and families - if they have anything out of that. We could now estimate the amount of ironite needed for that and convert it to real money. I would assume to see some alarming numbers!
Of course, everybody is responsible for him/her self in regards of spending time and money on a mobile game, as well as when to start considering that as an addiction and when to see a doctor.
Take care, you guys!

blade, i know both guys and i can assure you they are very fine persons. they are certainly extreme, but so are we since we are playing this game for 2 years now . i can pretty exactly calculate the amout of ironite needed for that and you would be surprised it's not THAT much. many guys blow much more for event souls for sure. this game and this community is about dedication and love to the band and to the game. and both carlos and kamuz are passionate and skilled as hell....if someone says "everyone can do this if he has the time and ironite" this is pure BS and this week this should pove him wrong...unless your day would have 72 hourse then, it's not possible for average guys to reach this even with full maxed relics. this is pvp SKILL at it'S finesta and i really enjoy the race.
i cannot see a reasons for your stupid clichees , losing job bla bla, losing family bla bla, losing friends bla bla...if your life is somewhat organized you can have it all and your firends will survive if you don't have that much time for them in one week when you are chasing after your passion.

[MoonShadow]

I don't see this as a too much of a time investment as, since the introduction of the Relics, many top players had big piles of iron coins and brought the most possible out of them. Right now, they are practically invincible and are thrashing, burning & wiping the floor with the most / many teams. This isn't a competition anymore, but its not their fault if someone from the NF thought that the Relics are good for the game. And it really is, but it is just for few, as it seems, and those can even play all of the matches on auto, I believe, at least the most matches against the "casual" players of the Arena.

[Blade]

I don't see this as a too much of a time investment as, since the introduction of the Relics, many top players had big piles of iron coins and brought the most possible out of them. Right now, they are practically invincible and are thrashing, burning & wiping the floor with the most / many teams. This isn't a competition anymore, but its not their fault if someone from the NF thought that the Relics are good for the game. And it really is, but it is just for few, as it seems, and those can even play all of the matches on auto, I believe, at least the most matches against the "casual" players of the Arena.

Very good point! I did not think of that but you are right! With many many relics and a good idea of team builds auto pilot may really be an option! In a way this disagrees with what Slauki said, so maybe some of the top players want to share some ideas about their strategies!? What is your win%? What proportion of matches do you do on auto?

@Slauki: I do not doubt them being nice persons, that's why I put that sentence in the first line of my comment. I also play this game with a lot of passion and I spend a lot of time but only very few money on it. It is not my aim to criticise the respective players and I think I have choosen the right words. If not, its because english is not my mother tounge.
I rather want to rise some awareness because other players might get the idea to also try to go for that huge number of wins/points and I am sure, that not all of them have an organised life as you put it. This is where I see the danger. Challenge can take over and create addiciton, especially for young people. Moreover, if many players do these 1000 wins (or how many do the top3 have right now? 1500), they proof NF right to put these high demands. Maybe next time the goals go up to 2k and the "sweet spot" for completing the tali set is raised to 500? I would clearly dislike such a development, you too?

[slauki]

Very good point! I did not think of that but you are right! With many many relics and a good idea of team builds auto pilot may really be an option! In a way this disagrees with what Slauki said, so maybe some of the top players want to share some ideas about their strategies!? What is your win%? What proportion of matches do you do on auto?

@Slauki: I do not doubt them being nice persons, that's why I put that sentence in the first line of my comment. I also play this game with a lot of passion and I spend a lot of time but only very few money on it. It is not my aim to criticise the respective players and I think I have choosen the right words. If not, its because english is not my mother tounge.
I rather want to rise some awareness because other players might get the idea to also try to go for that huge number of wins/points and I am sure, that not all of them have an organised life as you put it. This is where I see the danger. Challenge can take over and create addiciton, especially for young people. Moreover, if many players do these 1000 wins (or how many do the top3 have right now? 1500), they proof NF right to put these high demands. Maybe next time the goals go up to 2k and the "sweet spot" for completing the tali set is raised to 500? I would clearly dislike such a development, you too?

okay if you put it that way i can agree with it. i just disliked the standard chiches about gamers from your previous posts. you would be surprised how successfull many of us are in real life, because if you have passion and dedication it's easy to transfer this into other parts of your life as well. that's how professional sportsmen/musician/artists get their highest level of success, they simply put in a ton of work and get better and better. that's why i love this attitude in general.
that said your points are valid, it's a small path that divides good/healthy/professional attitude and addiction. and i really dislike the amount of grind in this game and i would have prefered to see the action in the arena going down with this horrible relics. but the opposite seems to be the truth. so NF did everything right??? i doubt it ;)

[scott-5496]

I wonder whether or not it is time to create different leagues within PVP - that I think would help all levels. Just have the top rosters fight it out amongst themselves for the 'champions' league and then have leagues below that where simialr fights can take place over the week or month. I have this on a game I play and it works well I think as there are fewere beast teams to play and much more within your reach to beat.

Leagues could be based on your relic level (overall combined score), your roster or similar. Clearly your in game level would not work as I would guess that the vast majority (maybe) are 100. I know many team I have faced this week I just did not stand a chance with 80% relics and then more for each class - just domination, especially if they go first. That too is fine but it must be a nightmare for those lower down or more likely in the top 250 - 100 - the normal non-event top 100 is usually full of very tough teams - all of whom deserve their spot as they play so mauch more and therefore get way more IC than a more casual player.

I't a tough one to set up maybe. Not sure. But as other suggest I think if you are not bothered about froping 1000 ironite or whatever it is and you have so many maxed relics then auto must be a real option for a small bunch of players.

I am happy enough to not bother with having to be top 100 anymore - if I get it fine but more often then not top 250 is OK by me as I tend not to need to buy any SoW to get that. The loot difference between the two is just not worth the effort or buying an extra SoW an hour before reset (which I used to do).

Hats off to the big time players though - serious dedication - I really honestly do not know how they find the time or indeed the patience to do it - I would be bored daft! I just got my 150 wins this week and I think I will call it a day on trying for 300 with only today and tomorrow left and a life to live with kids etc.....just not worth it when I can finish off with a 500 ironite spend to get a final talisman - if indeed it is worth it as they are weak versions......which is the norm for these events as others have said elsewhere.

[Blade]

@Slauki: Good that we found some understanding now! Next time we can switch to german if neccessary :D

Anyway I "lost" some good friends from my youth as they could not stop playing WoW, LoL etc. and did not do their studies properly while I did my PhD already. Plus playing some instruments, doing sports etc...so I guess I know what you mean! But I am sad for my friends. They are all clever as hell, but just can't stand the temptation of gaming and trying to be the best, forgetting about time and responsibilities in real life. Maybe I am a bit more aware of these psychologic aspects because of that. These games/game modes with rankings are successful in creating addiction and sometimes they are even made exactly to do so! Does anyone NOT know the episode in South Park about mobile games and addiction in general? If that is the case, please watch it, it is gorgeous!

[Stormseye]

Having been on both ends of the spectrum here I can tell you there is a fine line between passion and addiction to gaming. Used to play EQ with much fury and almost lost my wife and job over it. I learned and was able to correct myself and now I know when to set things down.

I can tell you these top players aren’t just burning time. They have skill, and for that they should be congratulated. I was able to reach my goal of the “podium” last week and it was hard fought. Over 1000 matches and about 1800 ironite were used. This was pretty time consuming especially with FallenAngel chasing me the whole way. Relics helped and I will admit to spending about 20 bucks on ironite but the rest I had stockpiled. So the money really wasnt an issue and if you stay in the top 5 you will have acquired a fair amount of ironite which enables you to perpetuate yourself. The top guys have the hardest builds and well earned. I was able to defeat Carlos most matches but I don’t think I was able to beat Kamuz more than 2 times in all the face offs. It was just a matter of builds and luck for me though.That in and of itself is a personal triumph as these guys have proven time and time again they have the right formulae down. Hats off to those people who have the skill and builds to stay on top.

[RobG-9641]

These scores are all due to Relics not skill. Skill would imply a player could beat their own defense team using a team with less relics. The team with more relics will win by default. The Arena rank/scores are meaningless in its current state. The ratio of players with a lot of maxed Relics, is out of proportion to the majority of players. If there were true competition, the scores would be closer at the top. The massive margin in points, is due solely to Relics.
I love Relics, and enjoy the events earning more. No disrespect to any individual players. But ranking/points system is flawed and favors a very small pool of players. I really can’t call running up the score impressive. Have to call the flaws in the game for what they are instead of defending them, or worse, celebrating them.

[Amarthir]

These scores are all due to Relics not skill. Skill would imply a player could beat their own defense team using a team with less relics. The team with more relics will win by default. The Arena rank/scores are meaningless in its current state. The ratio of players with a lot of maxed Relics, is out of proportion to the majority of players. If there were true competition, the scores would be closer at the top. The massive margin in points, is due solely to Relics.
I love Relics, and enjoy the events earning more. No disrespect to any individual players. But ranking/points system is flawed and favors a very small pool of players. I really can’t call running up the score impressive. Have to call the flaws in the game for what they are instead of defending them, or worse, celebrating them.

Not true, I've beaten many teams with much better relics than my own. Skill and the right characters is 100% required.

[RobG-9641]

I should revise my comment. Over numerous battles, the higher relic team will more likely beat a team with less relics.
Offense or defense. Statistics will favor the stronger team winning more. It is possible to beat high relic teams. I’ve done it too. What needs to be addressed is the points/ranking/rewards system. This is what’s out of whack in the game right now.
Relics aren’t the problem.

[Amarthir]

I think the rewards system should definitely get a rework to keep in pace with the current meta.

[RobG-9641]

To further clarify why I say it’s Relics not Skill, offensive team with higher relics will more often fight a weaker opponent (less HP, attack, magic, etc.) With current imbalances of the haves vs. have nots with relics, the haves are greatly advantaged and can win by simply overpowering their opponent. That takes no skill. Again, I’m not disrespecting any individuals or trying to imply they don’t have skill or skill isn’t required. Relics just currently create a system of favoring already strong teams, making them more powerful than the majority of players.

[Bradata]

blade, i know both guys and i can assure you they are very fine persons. they are certainly extreme, but so are we since we are playing this game for 2 years now . i can pretty exactly calculate the amout of ironite needed for that and you would be surprised it's not THAT much. many guys blow much more for event souls for sure. this game and this community is about dedication and love to the band and to the game. and both carlos and kamuz are passionate and skilled as hell....if someone says "everyone can do this if he has the time and ironite" this is pure BS and this week this should pove him wrong...unless your day would have 72 hourse then, it's not possible for average guys to reach this even with full maxed relics. this is pvp SKILL at it'S finesta and i really enjoy the race.
i cannot see a reasons for your stupid clichees , losing job bla bla, losing family bla bla, losing friends bla bla...if your life is somewhat organized you can have it all and your firends will survive if you don't have that much time for them in one week when you are chasing after your passion.

Nice respond, Slauki! 2 weeks ago me & Kamuz were accused of using bots, now this. There's always gonna be people accusing others of cheating only because they are better than them. Both 20 000 points players have been playing since DAY 1, people! What do you expect from players being constantly in the higher ranks from the beta PVP! I myself had a lot of ironite without being on top that much so if you play your cards right, you'll have an advantage against others.. in most cases. I should mention Nicko here, he is back again with very creative defense AGAIN, hat's off man! Lost against his team 3 times and gave up, used my most wining teams and still lost. So yeah, relics play some role here but if you're as creative as Nicko, you'll be a winner every time you decide to be :p
This is too much typing for me, I'm out!

[Nicko]

I cannot congratulate on that. It is insane! Nothing personal of course! The top3 has now 11k, 18k and 20k.
It is a shame that NF encourages this kind of crazyness by the strech goals and the run for relics! It is irresponsibility at its finest.
I mean these guys are in danger to not seeing any daylight for the whole week. They might lose their jobs, friends and families - if they have anything out of that. We could now estimate the amount of ironite needed for that and convert it to real money. I would assume to see some alarming numbers!
Of course, everybody is responsible for him/her self in regards of spending time and money on a mobile game, as well as when to start considering that as an addiction and when to see a doctor.
Take care, you guys!


I have to agree with Slauki on this one. These guys are simply skilled and ten cuts above - pure and simple. Carlos has a great job - a great family - and two beautiful children. Kamuz - from my limited interaction with him - has his act together as well and has always been fast as hell - an ace at both offense and defense. To say you can't congratulate them on this amazing achievement - and imply they're putting their lives in jeopardy just because they can outmaneuver the casual player with ease - is just wrong. I know there are language issues here so excuse my taking what you said at face value - but these guys deserve big congrats and thanks Druid for starting this thread.

And thanks for the props Bradata! I've become a dabbler but it's still fun to tinker - once in a while something just works - and while I've always had an affinity for defense, Fallen Angel and Kamuz are the defensive masters of the day. In fact Fallen Angel gets the "Most Annoying Defense Ever" award - and I say that as a major compliment!

[Yup]

Buying the most relics doesn't mean you have a good defense... just saying. I don't know any players.. and I don't wish to cast ANY aspersions upon them. But feeling proud that you have iron coins to buy relics which means you're going to have a clear advantage over most other players.. well.. that's the equivalent of bragging about a participation trophy.

And sorry. this game has nothing to do with "love for the band". A fondness for the Eddie art maybe,... but that's not the band. That's Derek Riggs and the IM marketing team. Sure a fondness for IM may have made you download the app.. but that's where that stops.

[Amarthir]

And sorry. this game has nothing to do with "love for the band". A fondness for the Eddie art maybe,... but that's not the band. That's Derek Riggs and the IM marketing team. Sure a fondness for IM may have made you download the app.. but that's where that stops.

Fun fact: it was my fondness for games in general that made me download this game. I got into Iron Maiden shortly after and bought the Edhunter CD. One of the best decisions I made.

[Yup]

All I know is growing up listening to Killers, Iron Maiden, Number of the Beast, Peace of Mind... we'd have laughed our asses off at guys that thought winning some computer battle because they were able to achieve fake currency to buy fake abilities made them somehow "tough" or "smarter". It's like a male adult film star thinking he's a "ladies man" when the reality is the "ladies" are being PAID and ANY guy would do.

Sorry, topping the arena ONLY means you have more time, more relics, and you're more willing to refill SOW, that's all. It's NOT ANY sort of "achievement" whatsoever.

Again.. I don't know players personally and NOTHING is meant to be derogatory toward players. Not at all. Taking advantage of the "game" mechanics is something we'd all probably do. No harm in that.

[Jofer16]

All I know is growing up listening to Killers, Iron Maiden, Number of the Beast, Peace of Mind... we'd have laughed our asses off at guys that thought winning some computer battle because they were able to achieve fake currency to buy fake abilities made them somehow "tough" or "smarter". It's like a male adult film star thinking he's a "ladies man" when the reality is the "ladies" are being PAID and ANY guy would do.

Sorry, topping the arena ONLY means you have more time, more relics, and you're more willing to refill SOW, that's all. It's NOT ANY sort of "achievement" whatsoever.

Again.. I don't know players personally and NOTHING is meant to be derogatory toward players. Not at all. Taking advantage of the "game" mechanics is something we'd all probably do. No harm in that.

Bahahahaha, the less fortunate will always cop some lame obvious excuse and attacks. Sorry, we just rule in game and in life.

On to big boy stuff.. CARLOS, my man, congratulations!!!! And don’t listen to all the petty jealous attacks. Here’s a quote to live by...

“I need you to hate, so I can use you for your energy”

Feed off the tears. So awesome to see some champs still here, you were always a warrior. Torch is good in your hands, get at me if you ever come to SF, I’ll show you the ways there too my friend, current status haha...

4518

[druid138]

Guys, I hate seeing a congratulations thread taken over by this argument. The point is that no one in 14 months of the Arena has come even close to 20,000 points. It deserves some recognition and praise.

[Yup]

The point is that no one in 14 months of the Arena has come even close to 20,000 points. It deserves some recognition and praise.

Uhm.. relics are new... and no it doesn't deserve any recognition or praise more than a participation trophy would. "Congratulations.. you bought relics.. aren't you special. I'm so proud of you tapping that button!"

[slauki]

Uhm.. relics are new... and no it doesn't deserve any recognition or praise than a participation trophy would. "Congratulations.. you bought relics.. aren't you special. I'm so proud of you tapping that button!"

give me full relics give me a week off everything and i will be able to push for 12k maybe 14-15k if i cut down sleeping time too, but that's about it. and i consider myself as an okay player. no way i could do 22k or more. the week is simply to short for me to archive that. what you don't consider yup, is the SPEED factor. it's not about winning it's about winning as fast and as flawlessly as possible. that is the skill part and nothing else. try one single week to go for eternal and you will change your mind.

[Yup]

Slauki, prior to reliks I was sitting at eternal one week on a Saturday a couple hours before the rollover. It's not THAT hard, or it wasn't at that time, again that was prior to relics. I decided then that it wasn't worth the $$$ to refill SOW to continue fighting, that's all. If I had the ironite stockpile perhaps I would have. I know there's effort in it.. but let's not confuse that refill effort with any sort of unique ability. As I've stated MANY times, I'm not down on ANY player whatsoever. I merely don't think being able to refill SOW and keep fighting is any sort of achievement of merit. You all are free to have contrary opinions.. but then.. I'm free to have mine.

I've beaten all the top players in the arena.. yep.. that's right I have. It's not impossible. It can be damn hard due to the relic boosts, but it's not impossible.

[Mercifal]

Can we change the topic of relics and attacking each other just to congratulate Carlos for the huge number that he has achieved, because in the end that's what that topic is about?

[Blade]

I also think we have had enough discussion now. I would rather prefer some thoughts from the top players about this week when the crazyness is over!

[GotN]

Bringing it back to the point: Congrats Carlos & Kamuz for reaching new heights! This is just awesome!
Like blade I would be very interested in hearing some thoughts from you about this week in PvP.

[Nekroliun]

Funny that i thought of playing arena once, lol back in the day 4k was insane.

How much money does NF make from arena, like srsly, they add a new op (whatever thing is new these days) and everyone plays arena like crazy and buy 194 refills.

Also idk if they changed it, but arena ranks change weekly roight? How could people get 4k back in the day as a crazy high number and have people get 20k these days, buff to rank gains?

[Leviathan]

Hi everyone.

Just jumping in to remind everyone to keep threads on topic. I have removed some posts that were only serving to create a stir and derail the thread.

Thanks.

[FallenAngel666]

Congratulations to Carlos and Kamuz, you both are amazing players, you deserved to get this score....and to be founders of a new very exclusive club!
Congratulations again guys, you simply did something out of ordinary, incredible!

[FallenAngel666]

Slauki, prior to reliks I was sitting at eternal one week on a Saturday a couple hours before the rollover. It's not THAT hard, or it wasn't at that time, again that was prior to relics. I decided then that it wasn't worth the $$$ to refill SOW to continue fighting, that's all. If I had the ironite stockpile perhaps I would have. I know there's effort in it.. but let's not confuse that refill effort with any sort of unique ability. As I've stated MANY times, I'm not down on ANY player whatsoever. I merely don't think being able to refill SOW and keep fighting is any sort of achievement of merit. You all are free to have contrary opinions.. but then.. I'm free to have mine.

I've beaten all the top players in the arena.. yep.. that's right I have. It's not impossible. It can be damn hard due to the relic boosts, but it's not impossible.

It is not a matter to win a sinlge battle or to refill again and again, it is a matter to be faster, and to create a good defense, and possibly unique and creative, it is a matter of loosing on attack as less as you can.
Not anybody can get there even refiling again and again and playing many hours

[Mariner-1212]

Yup, I don't understand you. Why do you take praise that is EARNED by a few among us and make it a personal attack against you for not achieving it? I've read through and not seen any point where it was said "Congrats to Carlos and Kamuz for an outstanding job and everyone look at how Yup didn't achieve it"... I'll read through again, but I just don't get it. They aren't on here attacking others for being less in the game, like some have done with their victories. Why does it befall you to try and cheapen such an outstanding effort?

Maybe you're not impressed, and that's cool. But I'm not impressed with your ability to shit on things, since that's an ability that every human being was born with. It takes no talent to put others down. In fact, you can often judge a person by how they handle the achievements of those around them. Think about that for next time.

I am impressed with their effort, and I say congratulations to both on an amazing and unprecedented achievement earned through very hard work and dedication. And kudos to Fallen who cracked the 10K mark which itself is a great achievement.

[T-Man]

Carlos and Kamuz insane numbers guys! Cheers on that. Fallen Angel your team gave me fits this week. Many people copied your team trooper. Congrats on 10k too.

I had some festivities to attend today, otherwise I may have joined the 10k club.

[edsel]

KAMUZ & CARLOS---UNREAL...what time does this take to get such numbers? And +80 attach and +80 magic for Gunner relics make Lilith so strong for Carlos. Only way to win is going first...2 names to fear in PVP FOR SURE. You guys kick ass.
4521

[edsel]

Relics are great and gives a carrot to chase, something to want and work for. I had no pile of iron coins, spend as I earn and can still beat these top teams once and again. They are not winning and I am not losing because of Relics. Carlos and Kamuz spent more time and play efficiently-and are superheroes for pushing the limits of the game4522

[Kamuz24z]

I decided to go 20k last Sunday but I wasn’t sure if I was going to be able to achieve it I know that just getting 10k was a challenge, midweek I was already tired a combination of work, family and life in general I was ready to give up but the motivation return when my rival and trooper started rising so in other words it was thanks to Carlos that I kept playing and end up with 22k

Different defenses Visions, POM, 7S, Vampire, Samurai, all Liliths but the most creative defenses came from Fallen Angel the last 3 were "really" good his defenses were the most copy in the last 2 weeks but the defense that I lost the most was Carlos’s defense

ACR is broken she has no counter right now until the next tuning update that is good but there is no counter for her passive nothing can stop it, it doesn’t matter if you have immunity or PI even if you bring the Prisoner nothing helps maybe one of the future toons is going to be able to block it and if that is the case we need that toon

Mayan priestess is the most annoying toon but is not because she steals effects is because she revenge every single time and that makes fights take longer

A suggestion for the devs can you make arena faster adding a new speed will help a lot and also adding more slots for attack teams.

[Askora]

Amazing run Carlos! Also, amazing run by Kamuz as well. Strong showing by FallenAngel. You three really earned those top spots. All around impressive effort.

[Ubajoa]

Hey guys, thank you for all your kind words.

I was planning this run a couple of weeks ago, this week I was free from work and was gonna be at home all the time, so I started preparing for it gathering as much ironite as I can, creating effective and fast attacking teams and organize things in real life to be able to do it. I was planning to start since the weekly reset but my dear wife wanted a date night and of course we had it, that's why I waited until sunday to start. Last week my dear wife was incredibly busy and I had to take care of our babies, so I was taking care of them with one hand and playing arenas with the other, if that isn't considered skill I don't know what it is :p.

I faced great defenses, Kamuz's defense is intense, congrats for both the crazy run and the great defense. But I wasn't prepared to defeat effective and fast the FallenAngel's defense, I was winning all the time but it was taking me more than 5 min per fight so I had to create a new attacking team to defeat him fast, that cost me a couple defeats of course, but at the end I could do it fast, congratulations dear Mofo for both your run and your incredibly annoying defense.

Finally for those complainning about relics, yeah I have a lot but Im not winning just for them, in case you don't know I won 8 eternals before relics so that's not the reason to be able to win. To become eternal you have to put some effort on the game and in real life, that is what you have to do.

A photo of my kids and me while I was doing some arenas this week
4525

Cheers

[T-Man]

Great pic Carlos! :)

[GotN]

This should proof everybody wrong who thinks you don’t have a real live! Thanks for this great picture Carlos! Your babies are very cute and they seem to enjoy LotB with you :D

[90mphyorker]

Well played guys. Insane numbers there.

Curious though, how many battles did you two complete to get those scores?

[MoonShadow]

*Great family pic*Hey... now I understand how do you manage to gather so many points, you are playing with 6 hands!! :D

[druid138]

Congratulations on an amazing week Carlos and Kamuz! Incredibly impressive performances!!