PDA

View Full Version : In case you are keeping track..



Stormseye
10-23-2018, 05:23 PM
The new standard in PVP is FURY. Forget your global HP. The goal is get Fury on your first turn and due to some insane bugs, you can continue to have the AI use your PoM/Alchemist/Sekemet/Hallowed Eddie to do multiple furies in a turn. As I posted earlier, Angel talismans from the Guantlet a few weeks ago are also regulation equipment for Alchemist and Hallowed.

The usual suspects are clear and present as well, "Non-existent" AI boost allowing for 7 attacks from Magus Lillith, Cleanse not working on attack side while opponent AI can remove stun/sleep/perfect sleep without any talisman or passive or ability removal present and my all time favorite, AI using power abilities with 3 or less power. In addition, just because your ally ability says "75% chance to X" does not make it so. More often than not you are running 30-35%. On the flipside abilities that list 15% will yield 75-80% as per Horus. Primordials have diminished but still can cause loses and to my surprise as well as Nilf's I am sure, his Witch Doctor is not to be messed with.

So any of you looking to break into to the top end take heed to know what you will be facing.

Basic top end build

Hallowed - Valor or Angel/X
PoM - Angel/X
DDE - Angel/X
Cyborg - Primordial (not as common)

Alchemist - Angel/X
Horus - Eternity
Magus Lillith - Destiny/Immunity or Sustain
Osiris Strike/Energy or others
Sekemet - Valor
Prisoner - Primordial (more common than Cyborg)
Daedelus- Valor (seen 1-20 fights)
Icarus - Avenger/Power or Destiny/Immunity (seen 3-20 fights)
Gunner Lillith - Avenger/X or Energy/Regen/X
Set,Madam,Count on occasion - Talismans vary

So max out that Fury and prepare to Rage....

Ip4
10-23-2018, 06:24 PM
Stormseye you are beast in pvp,i am tired in pvp and started to play all battles on auto...

Nifelheim
10-23-2018, 06:31 PM
My best pvp rank is 168 so it's good to see the top player builds. Recently came across stormeye, rags, etc and was a challenge.

Stormseye
10-23-2018, 06:57 PM
My best pvp rank is 168 so it's good to see the top player builds. Recently came across stormeye, rags, etc and was a challenge.

Your build was a welcome change and more than a challenge! Took me 3 attempts to beat it! You have some awesome synergies with some uncommon characters. Keep up the good work.

Zugzwang
10-24-2018, 03:29 AM
Iím surprised Iíve seen Hallowed Eddie so much. He seems more popular than Iron Eddie ever was. But what with Halloween coming up and all ;).Heís absolutely deadly with Valor Talismans on.

As for the rest youíre dead on. Itís hard to the devs to create optimal parity in PvP so we get ďthe usual suspectsĒ with the usual talismans on. Then the meta changes and what was once viable isnít anymore. I guess thatís how they want t though. Personally Iíd prefer them to try to balance it more but with the constant new characters itís not feasible to keep the older ones able to contend in PvP. Maybe they could make the usual suspect list just a little bigger? That would be the best we could hope for I think

Daviangers
11-01-2018, 04:20 PM
The AI absolutely has an accuracy buff, thats about it. I wish theyd just admit it already

DanielRacy
11-01-2018, 05:51 PM
The only thing to fight back Horus 99% stun chance is angel talisman on a cleanser like the Alchemist.

There is this talisman set that removes 2 buffs from each character, I think it's called redemption or something like that. Well, that plus Horus equals no mercy punishment for teams without angel.

Got a taste of that yesterday, I don't have angel, so I go with vanish or immunity and hope for the best. This defense took out 2 buffs from each of my guys, leaving my team with zero immunity (I had trap set, so at least that fucker was stunned, lol), ok fight starts and here comes Horus and BAM my guys all stunned, the rest of his team did some damage but nothing too heavy, my turn... I wish, all my guys stunned and beat up so back to him, second turn and guess what... Horus and his amazing 100% accuracy strikes again and that was it. Didn't have the chance to do one single move. This happened to me a few times, frustrating as fuck. Gotta find me one last angel talisman to complete the set and defend myself from Horus amazing 99% accuracy.

Nifelheim
11-01-2018, 07:02 PM
The only thing to fight back Horus 99% stun chance is angel talisman on a cleanser like the Alchemist.

There is this talisman set that removes 2 buffs from each character, I think it's called redemption or something like that. Well, that plus Horus equals no mercy punishment for teams without angel.


there are a few options beside angel talismans. Best being magus PDK passive, clearing negative effects from up to 2+ heal all. Bastion is immune to stun. also the warrior and sentinel hellraisers passive helps against horus stuns. Gunner undead rescuer passive helps. Assassin has the hellhound with 50% chance to cleanse

Stormseye
11-01-2018, 07:03 PM
it is tough if you missed out them a couple of weeks ago when they were guantlet reward. Stun has really come back with a vengeance. Alchemist with Angel is more valuable than Magus with Destiny in my opinion. So many negative effect casters in the current game and Cleanse is so easily removed that it is really not a big help, even Immunity is easily dealt with. Any more discussion of AI boost should summon Yup to chime in..lol. The desire to make different builds is easily stifled by the sheer dominance of certain characters and Horus is one of them for sure. This discourages unique builds if the intent is to climb to the top ranks in the Arena. Again this really only applies to defensive setups.

As far as attack teams go there are still quite a variety of choices that can win against these "standard" defense builds. I am currently playing something new and working out some bugs but the Alchemist is still part of it as per the above statement. I would still use Alchemist, Daniel, with Invisibility/Immunity and/or Fate/Immortality sets. Shadow will only benefit you the first turn so I would not put too much faith in that. As long as he is alive negative effects will be no issue for you and Horus will not be a burden.

The Sentinel Harpy just received a boost and is immune to stun. I actually use Invisibility and Heal Talismans on mine and it works great because the Soar ability got a percent buff and is now 100% to grant extra turn to he ally you cleanse at full shard. Witch Doctor is also quite nasty if your party gets stunned.

Ip4
11-01-2018, 07:09 PM
is only my Alchemist low with healh so i must put magus lilith with him or he will be first dead without lilithÖ

DanielRacy
11-01-2018, 07:18 PM
there are a few options beside angel talismans. Best being magus PDK passive, clearing negative effects from up to 2+ heal all. Bastion is immune to stun. also the warrior and sentinel hellraisers passive helps against horus stuns. Gunner undead rescuer passive helps. Assassin has the hellhound with 50% chance to cleanse

Sure man, there are a lot of characters that could clean it, but they are all irrelevant at high level PvP. Maybe in future updates, who knows.

Stormseye
11-01-2018, 07:28 PM
As you well know Ip4 I have not run Magus on my defense for the last week, but I do run Madam with Destiny. This is to utilize the damage mitigation from Destiny set as well as her awesome passive that blocks all stat enhancing effects like Ascension, Critical Strike and Damage Charge on the enemy as long as she is alive. It may seem scary to run without a blocker but the mitigation is what helps the most. That mitigation is huge in terms of whether your other team will get one rounded or not. You could also resort back to GPD with Invisibility. His damage is still weak but again he is there to help cleanse and mitigate damage. This will allow you to have 3 allies to deal damage or push utility.

Nifelheim
11-01-2018, 07:32 PM
Sure man, there are a lot of characters that could clean it, but they are all irrelevant at high level PvP. Maybe in future updates, who knows.

thats true, and i typically rank dualist I in pvp, but gauntlet is showing a lot of these irrelevant characters in a new light, with right talismans, especially in S classes.

DanielRacy
11-01-2018, 07:33 PM
Hey Stormseye, yeah. My defense today is M Lilith (destiny, immunity), Hallowed Eddie (valor), Alchemist (trap, power) and Prisoner (primordial).

I'm using the same team to attack, with an eventual change here and there depending on the defense. This formation is great. I hardly lose a fight when attacking with this team. The defenses that give me the most trouble and losses by far are the ones with PoM Eddie.

Hey, I've tried Alchemist with shadow and advantage and holy shit he obliterates the enemy when the buffs kicks in with 170000 plus damage on all of them it is amazing. On attack it is doable, on defense I think he might be too exposed.

The two talisman sets I don't have are Fate and Angel, working on it.

DanielRacy
11-01-2018, 07:34 PM
thats true, and i typically rank dualist I in pvp, but gauntlet is showing a lot of these irrelevant characters in a new light, with right talismans, especially in S classes.

No doubt, on Gauntlet they shine with the right talismans.

Amarthir
11-01-2018, 09:37 PM
I spent the entirety of this PvP event auto playing with a team that's hugely based on self healing and buff removal.

Hallowed Eddie: Angel, Thorn
Osiris: Redemption, Sacrificial
Madam: Oracle
Icarus: Destiny, Sustaining

Here's the most important part of this team setup, the healing.
This team will basically full heal itself after every round, Madam's passive will heal the team by a fairly large amount and having Oracle Talismans will put in an additionally large heal mixed with a health boost that is made into Perfect Health by Osiris. And since Icarus is so good at stealing buffs these days, it's good for him to have sustaining Talismans for additional healing. Then of course, the last part being the angel talismans.

Buff removal is the other big thing here, when you combine Madam's passive with a Redemption set, the opponent's will start off with almost no buffs. In most cases they're completely vulnerable at the start of battle. And Icarus and Hallowed Eddie can steal anything the other guys have. I gave the Redemption Talismans to Osiris as a replacement for counterstrike since I just prefer this set.

I've been debating on putting the alchemist in there since he's so good at cleansing, but I'm considering switching out Icarus and giving alchemist angel and vampire to replace the healing. We'll see...

Olevipoeg
11-01-2018, 10:15 PM
I spent the entirety of this PvP event auto playing with a team that's hugely based on self healing and buff removal.

Hallowed Eddie: Angel, Thorn
Osiris: Redemption, Sacrificial
Madam: Oracle
Icarus: Destiny, Sustaining

Here's the most important part of this team setup, the healing.
This team will basically full heal itself after every round, Madam's passive will heal the team by a fairly large amount and having Oracle Talismans will put in an additionally large heal mixed with a health boost that is made into Perfect Health by Osiris. And since Icarus is so good at stealing buffs these days, it's good for him to have sustaining Talismans for additional healing. Then of course, the last part being the angel talismans.

Buff removal is the other big thing here, when you combine Madam's passive with a Redemption set, the opponent's will start off with almost no buffs. In most cases they're completely vulnerable at the start of battle. And Icarus and Hallowed Eddie can steal anything the other guys have. I gave the Redemption Talismans to Osiris as a replacement for counterstrike since I just prefer this set.

I've been debating on putting the alchemist in there since he's so good at cleansing, but I'm considering switching out Icarus and giving alchemist angel and vampire to replace the healing. We'll see...
What about other team also having Redemption set? And Prisoner and Blue Lilith?

DanielRacy
11-01-2018, 10:28 PM
Hey Amarthir, Alchemist with angel and Osiris with redemption plus hallowed to damage is GG. No doubt.

Amarthir
11-01-2018, 11:29 PM
What about other team also having Redemption set? And Prisoner and Blue Lilith?

I don't see many teams that use Redemption, since they were purchase only when they came out, not a lot of people have them I would assume. As for Prisoner and Blue Lilith, I've done some experimenting to help out with that...

Basically I switched Hallowed Eddie's Angel Talismans with Serenity Talismans to block silver debuffs and I switched Icarus with the Alchemist and have him Onslaught Angel and Void Talismans. That way, Hallowed Eddie is more immune to effects and the thorn and void shields will take away those destiny buffs and heal block/permadeath opponents. As for Prisoner, you can simply use Alchemist to cure the passive disable on your characters. And cure those Primordial effects as well.

Onslaught is very useful now because it makes your character really tanky with alot of health, someone like the Alchemist would surely benefit from that.

90mphyorker
11-03-2018, 12:26 PM
This week was actually the first time Iíve played a substantial amount if Arena in weeks. Canít remember the last time I was in the too 150. And wow, I wonít be doing this for a long time. I get Iím out the loop of the current meta and that, but holy shit, this is the most unejoyable arena experience Iíve ever had. Glad Iím not playing this weekly.

rags-6094
11-03-2018, 05:10 PM
Define enjoyable? For some a good tough battle is enjoyable, you get a really good idea of what the creator of the defence team had in mind when you battle them, for others enjoyable is not losing a battle,for others it's got to be a win and over in a minute anything longer is a waste of their time.
I've seen a lot of the original champs write similar things in the forums "arena is not enjoyable any more, I'd rather play Gauntlet etc, certainly this week alone I am amazed by the number of new names Im seeing at the higher end of arena, and a little disappointed there aren't a few more originals still showing how it's done, each to his own I guess.

DanielRacy
11-03-2018, 06:13 PM
He is probably talking about the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Prisoner, Alchemist or the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Alchemist, W Goddess ( I always forget her name) and little variations with Osiris and Horus.

It gets old really fast if you have to fight the the same formation 300 times, with few variations here and there. I get it.

rags-6094
11-03-2018, 06:20 PM
Yeah me too.... there's so many places to spend your time in LOTB these days, it's hard to choose where to spend it.
This current event is a great way to farm much needed shards for levelling up which I was left rather depleated after the recent Halloween sac event.
I would rather be in the arena or gauntlet myself but ironite is low and doing this I can trade in all the normal souls for sow and complete some challenges in one foul swoop!

Stormseye
11-09-2018, 09:59 PM
Seems the defense lines are even less distinguished now.

80-90% of the fights now are the exact same build. Not sure if this is to take advantage of the bug that allows for multiple specials on the AI turn or what. That is not a shot at the player base. I see people constantly posting about "originality". That's great, if you want to play the game with Pharaoh Eddie and 3 Sandworms in the Arena and it makes you happy then enjoy. This thread is about competing in the top end and what you can expect when you do. So with that said here is your most current update.

Standard Defense:-

Magus Lillith
Sekhmet
Hallowed
Alchemist

What I have been having issues with is the constant AI accuracy buff (that doesn't exist). This allows for the Echo Sekhmet, Any Ability from HE that has a 15% chance to extra turn and Magus Lilith's insane high chance to extra turn AND always refunds the power when using Mysterious Rain. The constant "turn taking" from the Accuracy Boost balloons the Fury meter and allows for Sekhmet to Fury on the first turn and push the whole cycle again ending with Alchemist or HE using a second Fury. These combined allies/Eddie create a spectacularly perfect synergy. This is why I can't blame a single person for using this defense. It works wonderfully well. Despite the influx of new allies in the last month there has been very little change in the current Arena in terms of teams. The main reason for this is the synergy that was created when these allies were updated. You can easily blame the lack of drops for the new allies not showing up in the arena but there are many who do have them and I have seen very little change since the HE/Alchemist update. The new allies released and the builds that contain them are few and far between. They just cant compete with this common defense build.

Please address the AI Boost in terms of tuning. We all know it exists. Whether NF acknowledges it or not is irrelevant, at the very least, adjust it or give the attacking team the same boost.

T-Man
11-09-2018, 10:23 PM
Oh joy! I’ve got 21 battles in the arena this week. Lowest ever. Lol

I faced that exact team in gauntlet a few battle ago as well. Such a cheese team. I hate seeing it. I did get the win. \m/

Yup
11-09-2018, 11:08 PM
Hallowed Ed is overpowered where extra turns are concerned. The same way Gunner Lilith is overpowered where the "gold buff true damage" is concerned.

For the record, If you have Gunner fury relics and Hallowed and + 1 more gunner, you can build fury practically every turn. If Hallowed Ed gets multiple turns then definitely. The gunner fury relic once you get to a certain level 7/8 is the change. Not sure if it's a "bug" though.

Blade
11-10-2018, 12:07 AM
Thanks for the analysis, Stromseye! Completely correctly described.
Let me add a few more thoughts, with the exception of trying to be relatively positive:

The Defense Boost
Everyone knows there is. When things go really bad, the AI only makes perfect hits and triggers all the effects. In some cases, even the order doesn't matter, which is usually the biggest weakness of the AI. This weakness doesn't justify the clearly noticeable boost, but partly explains its existence. Some matches simply can't be won. Some teams may even have to be avoided. I can get really upset about it, but it doesn't help. After all, you can also make a task out of it, how best to incorporate this into your own defense and how best to counter it by attacking. After all: Many (me too) don't use the same team in the attack - at least a little bit of variety.

Builds come and go
We've all seen it before. The mechanics change from time to time. Essentially, NF determines the speed by (examples):
- New characters (Eternals, Valkyries, Liliths, Gods)
- New Talismans (Immunity, Thorn (lol), Angle, Destiny, Eternity, Primordial, Valor, Redemption, Avenger)
- Tuning as deterioration / improvement (Vampire Hunter, Assassin Valkyre, Wrath, Gunner Corrupt Rescuer / Rainmaker, Cyborg, Hallowed, Alchemist)

Positive about the current build:
At the moment the tuning of Hallowed and the Alchemist is clearly dominant. It's actually good that for once it's not the newest characters and talismans you need for PvP. Almost all the ingredients for the current "best" build were only available recently. That means almost every player can participate in the current "best" build (admittedly almost ridiculous...relics make it completely crazy). This will stay that way for some time now, and then comes the next one. I had already wondered that the last tuning had no downgrades for e.g. Hallowed.

And now?
To be honest, I also found it a bit more exciting when I missed a lot of the characters and I had to incorporate this into my strategy as well. When the talisman effects weren't that crazy yet and it was more about the right combination of characters and "normal" talismans. This is no longer the case for many. Until a few months ago I used a lot of different attack teams, always adapted to the respective defense. With the current mechanics this is no longer necessary. Extremely coordinated characters and talismans didn't lead to much variety. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Sometimes I think that it has become very extreme with all the abilities, buffs and debuffs, talismans and also very violent: relics. With all these things NF was really very busy if you are honest. But how long can you reinvent the wheel? In the current frequency of changes it can't really go any further, can it? I probably wouldn't mind if the frequency became slower. That might also be helpful, because the balance in the game is always in great danger, which doesn't get any easier with such a huge number of influencing variables.

So despite all justified criticism we still have a rather complex game, which even leads to long posts and a lot of discussion. I try not to take the whole thing so seriously anymore, then it's a bit more about the fun again. At least I try... Have fun people!

Stormseye
12-05-2018, 03:52 PM
The new expansion has been released and with it new character tuning. After completely the new content, I ventured back into the Arena to see how the new changes looked. I am pleased to report that the Hallowed Eddie and Magus Lillith tunings are quite noticeable. Magus Lillith is longer swinging 5 times to boost the Fury meter for Sekhmet to use Damnation and start the rotation again. Hallowed Eddie is no longer going 3 times every turn. The Alchemist changes are so slight they are non-issue. Overall this build will still be viable for winning on the attack side but it is nowhere near the defensive overpowered brick wall it was. A welcome change for returning players and newer players that had been stifled by this build. Those who had been accustomed to 40% hold rating will see a drop this week.


The update also brought with it a slew of new allies which will hopefully make their way into the Arena and create more diversity within the builds and allow for more players to achieve higher rankings. Though there were many listed changes, my short experience showed that the AI defense in general had been tuned down as well. What was common practice by the AI in terms of ability usage has changed and is no longer so glaring that many players felt certain fights where destined to be lost.

While it can just as boring losing matches to the same teams, it can be equally boring winning every match from a dull AI. These recent changes seem to be exactly where they were needed. We still have weeks to make a better interpretation of these new changes but what I have seen so far is a step in the right direction.

Cefiar
12-06-2018, 01:29 AM
My biggest thing with Arena is the amount of time I have to sink into it over more than a week to get anywhere.

And this time of year I'm especially time poor.

Stormseye
12-06-2018, 02:33 AM
Time is definitely a big factor in playing for the top end. Last week I hit 500 wins and came in 10th. Let's say the average match lasts 3 minutes so that's roughly 1500 minutes or around 25 Hours per week. That does not include the losses as well. Most non event weeks I average around 300-400 wins. So non event weeks still require a heavy dose of time to stay in the top. Think about guys like Carlos and Kumuz who clocked in over 2000 wins. Their average time was probably faster than mine but who knows.

AcesHigh189
12-06-2018, 03:00 AM
What is the X stand for in talismans?

MetalKing
01-30-2019, 01:02 PM
Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

Ip4
01-30-2019, 01:09 PM
still didn't see someone with ferryman in pvp,also i still don't have Killer Prime :(

Liu
01-30-2019, 01:13 PM
I saw a ferryman on a team by a trooper called Patrice.

Esquatcho
01-30-2019, 01:36 PM
Ferryman is on ROBERTA too, teamed with Soldier Eddie/Red Ninja/Sentinal Valk

Esquatcho
01-30-2019, 01:39 PM
Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

I actually reckon its more about the right talismans. I've seen teams with some of those chars that have been easy to take down. But as soon as you add eternals/primordials/valors/destiny it gets a heap harder.

Chars you will continue to get over time that will improve your competitiveness, but without getting lucky or grinding out the talisman challenges, its tough.

Muzzleloader
01-30-2019, 01:42 PM
Metalking, that is how the arena has developed. You need to keep getting the new OP toon or talisman to stay competitive. Just keep playing and you will reach the warloard goal. Try to keep earning the IC for relis and such and the rest of the game will to easier to beat.

Just before relics came out I was starting to become competitive in the arena. Then they came out, and down in rank I went with losses to players that had a hoard of IC. Along with the addition of relics the game has seen a ridiculous amount of toons and talisman released.

Ironstyle
01-30-2019, 04:31 PM
Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

I was in the same boat until this most recent reset. I started at around...rank 1000, just ran my normal routine with a weak defense only attacking those with weak defenses...and somehow made it to rank 43 with just over 2500 points. I was stoked to finally get the achievement. I've since dropped in the ranks, haha. Now I sit around 400-500 which is still good for me since I don't even try to climb the ranks. I imagine I will fall to about 1000-2000, or even 3000 by the time the arena resets again.

Yup
01-30-2019, 06:55 PM
Battled Ferryman a couple times. Disable his passive and he's a teddy bear to kill. He's a paper tiger.. strong on attack terribly weak on defense. Admittedly that may have just been the teams I battled. People get so anxious to use new toons they sometimes put them in the arena before they should.

Stormseye
01-30-2019, 09:40 PM
I fought Patrice with Ferryman earlier. My first team did not fair well but Alexander made short work him. Those "characters" in the top end are quite easy to beat Metalking. There have been several posts about how to beat them with little to no effort and no need of "high end" characters. If you look at the "Banshee Gang" thread in the Character Discussion you will find loads of information. My defense hold has been the lowest ever with the same defense as most of the other top guys. I have said time and time again. Ranking high in the Arena is not about how good your team is in general. It is about how much time you can commit to playing and winning. The more you play the more you will win. I run three attack teams now. I had never done that in the past but with the variety of teams out there it has become a necessity. The banshee/magus defense is one of the easiest defenses to overcome compared to Iron Eddie/Primordial Prisoner or Hallowed/Sekhmet.

Look at the list of players who ranked very high last week due to the event that required so many wins. Most of these players are never ranked higher than 100 and many of them ranked in the top 25. Commitment to playing is the only real key.

Sometimes you get an easy run and sometimes you get a tough list. At rank 16 now I just cleared my board and the new board consisted of 8/10 single eddie defenses.

Stormseye
01-31-2019, 05:23 PM
If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.

edsel
01-31-2019, 08:04 PM
If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.

I have him with Shadow/Immunity alongside Assassin Banshee with same and Desert Marauder to trigger Charge from Perfect Hit, Ferryman in 1 hit is destroying whole teams of good characters. Love the overkill.

Stormseye
01-31-2019, 09:10 PM
I managed to beat Drinkblood with Magus Derby Demon - Domination/Serenity Talismans and Alexander. Alchemist and KP went very fast since no blocker and FFE was hitting way hard. I outlasted him and bled himself to death with 2 rounds left before Draw. I need to work some more on the build but the beauty is if you have banshee/blocker and Ferryman your damage is not huge except for your Eddie.

Zantarath
02-01-2019, 02:14 AM
i'm prob not gonna be able to get ferryman no luck with 25 souls and i'm out of resources to grind XD

Olevipoeg
02-01-2019, 09:04 AM
If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.
Ferryman is not so tough to beat. One way is to keep your immunity up and Doom it. Works also with Assassin Banshee. Assassin banshee/blocker/Ferryman combo doesn't leave you room for other passives. I used Astra for grinding event dungeon. Without Doom Ferryman is not so scary anymore.

Yup
02-01-2019, 09:55 AM
Ferryman is weak on AI defense even WITH A Banshee or a blocker.. I've tested and tested and tested and tested and tested and tested and battled in PvP when I see him. He's easily killed in almost all instances.

Once you understand his power comes from - A) his passive - B) to a lesser degree, removing blue buffs (Immunity, invincibility) and - C) Doom... eliminate those and he's a cuddly little marshmallow.

...... but if you can control him on manual attack.. he's an impenetrable force with the right allies.

rags-6094
02-01-2019, 09:13 PM
So I just played Yups defence, nice work with the Desert Warrior with Avenger Talisman,
Towards the end of the battle Alchemist used his fury and gave the remaining members of his team soul protect, I killed Alchemist, but FFE and Guardian remained.
I bought both these defense characters up to zero and the soul protects "ghost" buff took over both of them, interesting thing was that it reenabled the revenge buff on the pair of them... these seems right to me, it should do this but I had never seen it before... didn't matter they both died just the same... this was no easy battle I should say...nice work Yup

Yup
02-01-2019, 09:28 PM
hmm.. REALLY wish I could swap A Banshee for Ferryman on that team.. but the AI just ain't smart enough for that. I do swap those for ATK.. and well.. losses on attack are few and far between lately :) I've actually wiped out entire teams with ONLY Ferryman left standing and casting Doom on characters. If you can't disable his passive and/or remove silver buffs, you're screwed.

Damn near beat the AAA Gauntlet team of DD,A Banshee, M Lilith, Alchemist with ONLY Ferryman.. but alas Ferryman eventually died do to his own HP drain. Alchemist clearing doom was too great a hurdle for Ferryman to overcome by himself. (if the gauntlet has a "Draw' limit I'd have hit it 2 or 3 times - match took ffffooooooorrrrreeeeevvvveeeeerrr and I was letting it autoplay)

Biggest problem with your teem (for me) is Perfect Sleep, Rags. If Phantom Ed uses it well, it can make things tough. If Perfect Sleep isn't cast enough, well.... yeah.. check your D list for my last 2-turn outing :)

Yup
02-02-2019, 12:53 AM
He can be impenetrable on attack....

5191

Stormseye
02-12-2019, 12:00 AM
The Power and the Ferry -:

Lets look at the current top end defense teams and what you will be facing if you step into the Rank 100 ring.

Assassin Banshee/Blocker - far and away the easiest team to beat and it has been discussed to the extreme. Disable passive on the blocker and proceed as usual. Warrior Derby Demon is my goto for this defense team and I have a 98% win rate against it.

The Coin Toss Killer - My own defense is a variation of this but the basic principle is Killer Prime with Primordial Prisoner add 2 of virtually any other allies. Most common setup is Final Frontier Eddie/Piece of Mind Eddie plus Alchemist, Charlotte or anything really. This build focuses on the AIís uncanny ability to go first, despite the claimed (50% chance to go either way). What happens is that Killer Prime will remove 2 beneficial effects (immunity and vanish notwithstanding) and the Primordial Prisoner will disable passives and assuredly inflcit perfect corruption on at least 2 of your team. What happens next is usually a first round cleanup with most teams falling before they even get a chance to counter. What is unique about this setup is that even if you use the exact same attack team against it and you win the toss, your team can do very little damage as the AI defense will not be hindered by the disable passive or will have Eternity shields and Perfect Immunity from Prisoner. Good luck against this team as I have tried several allies to find a reliable attack team but nothing is slowing it it down anytime soon. I have had a little luck with Madam (her passive blocking stat enhancing effects) but if she is disabled there is nothing you can do. The Alchemist can cleanse your team if you win the toss but expect to be hindered again once the opponent Killer Prime activates his passive and expect the Prisoner to disable your blocker or healer if you have one. The Prisoner seems to be able to keep you disabled even if you can manage to cleanse his Disable Passive as tested several times.

The Ferryman Four - This defense can be both weak and very strong. For the most part these teams donít have a high defense or have too little damage with the exception of the most recent team I faced. Outside of that team I will discuss at the end, most of the teams can be outlasted as long as you have a cleanser or some immunity to the Ferryman attack. I use Alexander, Alchemist and Magus Derby Demon with Serentiy Talismans and have beaten a team using 3 Ferryman. Even if they combine the Assassin Banshee/Blocker with a Ferryman, the damage is not insane so you can return a hefty damage based team back at them and clear all save the Ferryman and then outlast him as he consumes himself.

The team I faced today was today was by far the worst case scenerio and would be the team I would use if I had Ferryman.

FFE/Killer Prime/Prisoner/Ferryman. The only thing I saw lacking in this killing machine was the Ferryman needed to have Nightmare talismans equipped to ensure nothing was awake as his partners reduced your team to lifeless pulp.

Hope that sheds some light on whatís going on lately.

P.S. also there is Disco Death Loop to deal with too..

Natasmai
02-12-2019, 01:57 PM
Why do people say they just wait for ferryman to consume himself? Doesn't the HEX talisman set prevent him from ever doing that? Arent people running the hex?

GotN
02-26-2019, 05:31 PM
First time I saw this defense on PvP. What do you think about it? Didnít fight it.

5308

Stormseye
02-26-2019, 05:43 PM
First time I saw this defense on PvP. What do you think about it? Didnít fight it.

5308

I have fought a few of these builds but they have no defense really and without Prisoner the KP is manageable. I will say that KB was able to bypass my Magus/Banshee and kill Alchemist with no Disable present so it must have been the Grevious Burns but afterwards I slaughtered the team since there is no blockers.

No clue on the Hex talismans but I would just watch Ferryman consume himself now I hit him with Heal Block and the follow up with End of Night from FFE and he is dead within 2 rounds.

Natasmai
02-26-2019, 06:24 PM
I have killed that team a few times, its a piece of cake. I am just running the old standard Hallowed eddie magus lilith assassin banshee and KP.

On the ferryman, I have a hell of a hard time actually getting the passive disable to apply to him (with hallowed eddie) takes me 3 or 4 tries... which means 6-8 turns as i need to wait for the power to do it. dies immediately after though, and cant kill any of my team. just annoying.

Stormseye
04-15-2019, 04:14 PM
You Can't have it both ways :-

So after many months of trying find a team that can handle the powerhouse of KP/Prisoner combo I have found a team that can at minimum leave me with a draw. Anyone who is in the top 100 has faced this team and realizes that the outcome is usually determined by whoever wins the toss. Though most of the builds vary slightly the main focus is the Kp/Prisoner synergies of removing 2 beneficial effects, inflicting passive disable and granting golden beneficial effects to the team. What these teams essential lack is a guaranteed form of cleanse. Some teams has enlisted the Alchemy talismans into their builds but then they also lack a blocker so if you can survive one round then your odds of winning are much better. Those that run Assassin Banshee for her passive also lack a blocker. I have lost one match so far with my attack team and it was a result of Prisoner being revived and STILL able to inflict Passive Disable which goes against everything that has been tested for revived characters and their passives. That is another post though.


As always my builds are based on my roster and I know full well that many do not have access to every character and talisman that I have but there still may be some knowledge gain for those that can adapt this build to their rosters. The build focuses on starting the match with as many beneficial effects as possible to help against the KP passive.


Set- Shadow/Immunity - Starts with Vanish/Invincibility everytime.

Pharaoh Ramesses - Presence/Sustaining/Rando Green (though you can easily use a Cosmic here but mine are being used up)

Ferryman - Hex/Mark (you can use Immunity or any combo for the top 3 but Hex is needed for survivability and longevity. I started out with Immunity but then after the first few rounds the talismans do nothing. Mark however will continue to help you during the fight and can have surprising effects even on protected enemies. I have killed a Magus with Alchemy that was being protected by Assassin Banshee simply by landing a perfect hit and dealing 36k damage from the Marks.

Madam- Alchemy/Cosmic Talismans

On a losing toss you will start off with Passive Disable on Ferryman/Pharaoh/Madam but Set will be safe and have Invincibility and Vanish so most damage will be handled easily unless the KP has greed and will continue to attack and steal buffs. Even if Set is killed in this manner no worries as he did not have Permadeath and can be revived. As your round starts you will be cleansed by the Alchemy set and can begin attacks. I start with Set swinging to attempt to remove all golden effects. If there is a Charlotte or Alchemy wearing enemy then I target them first. Most times Charlotte will still have Golden Effects so I will use Wedjet's Gaze to remove those. If there is no Golden effects then I use Sun God to inflict Crave. Crave is so powerful against the current arena filled with Sustaining and Tower talismans. Many times the healing will kill the enemies before they have a next turn or at the start of their turn. I will then follow up with Ferryman to attempt to inflict Doom. Lastly using Madam to finish any enemies that are close to death and possibly put any to sleep as most will have no immunity left.

It is all situational since Presence can grant an extra turn you may be able to attack multiple times with Ferryman. Once the cleanser/reviver is removed, your next target should be Prisoner as only his passive will be your undoing. The power of Pharaoh's passive is that you will not take near as much damage since you are immune to Curse/Permadeath while Pharaoh is alive. Now that Prisoner is gone you can lose your whole team except Ferryman and still win the fight since the AI is not smart enough to use the correct combo to kill Ferryman if the opponent is running FFE.

This build was designed to target KP/Prisoner builds specifically but I have had success against other Ferryman builds as well Banshee/Blocker builds. Hope this helps.

Yup
04-15-2019, 04:20 PM
The "all killers" team is actually kind of an easy win when I've faced it. There's not enough diversity of abilities overall. They'll remove buffs on opponents, but no negative buffs on themselves.

As for theKP/Prisoner.. that to me isn't a big hurdle. I find FFE with HP+ a bigger issue. He's way overpowered with HP+ buffs.

Stormseye
04-15-2019, 04:26 PM
As for theKP/Prisoner.. that to me isn't a big hurdle. I find FFE with HP+ a bigger issue. He's way overpowered with HP+ buffs.

How have you been handling that build because it has stumped me for quite some time. I will say that FFE with reduced Max HP hits like a kitten though.

Yup
04-15-2019, 04:53 PM
Prisoner has a chance of disabling Prisoner. Then Musashi (with Alchemy) will remove all the buffs from Warlord on KP. NotB Ed will strip buffs as well. Really KP's biggest threat is all the buff boosts because everyone (including me) is running him with Warlord and Sustaining.

It's far from fool-proof, but works much of the time.

Really I only lose due to the AI accuracy up. I can lose terribly, go back in and win with 1 hit a great deal.

(Disclaimer, I am just 2 global DEF relics short of having them all)

I also auto-play all matches. I'd probably win a bit more if I did the manual battle thing.

------------------

What I learned about when I made Eternal.... You'll NEVER have a truly solid team, either ATK of DEF. The MORE you fight the more often your wins seem to happen (both A and D). Now I don't know if that's because the pts are factored in or something else is. But when I was fighting constantly for a week, every day as much as possible.. I was winning VERY easily much of the time. There was no struggle to gain more pts. The struggle was merely to keep more pts than the person below me, which was ALL a matter of how MUCH I was fighting.

After this, I started auto-playing everything and simply letting wins/losses happen however they happen. Unless I'm willing to dedicate more time to the arena, I'm going to fall in relatively the same ranking every week due to the characters and talismans. If you have A, B, C, and D, with talismans, Q, R, S, T, U, V, Y, and Z.. you'll be in the top 50 or so if you burn those 10/20 SOW a day. That's really all there is to it. If you want to be above the "character/talisman" based ranking, you have to refill and fight more. If that means spending 10 ironite to refresh when you start losing 2, 3, 4 in a row, then that's what it means.

I tend to do a mega-refill (or 2) after the weekly rollover and burn through those to collect IC more easily than anything else in order to purchase relics. This puts me in the top 5 the first day or two of the week, if not #1. Then I just use the natural SOW and burn through it daily on autoplay and slowly drop to around rank 50. Now that I'm nearing the end of relics, I'll most likely stop doing that as well. If I kept fighting, kept doing mega-refills every day, then I'd be closer to Eternal every week. But doing it once was more than enough for me. It's such a waste of ironite and time.

What really gets me is I have 358 of the 360 available relics.. yet I still will lose to a team with less than half the amount of relics. The lack of transparency on relics is annoying because CLEARLY there is some voodoo under the hood happening.

-----------

In short, there are factors at play that you will NEVER know. The devs aren't going to share them. But they ensure that because of the characters you are using, you fall in a general ranking range. Then the amount of time you spend fighting does something to improve that ranking. I'm sure theres even more... but it's futile to try and figure it out. it's a closed system designed to make you THINK jsut having a good team will help you. When the reality is, a good team alone is only PART of the total equation.

Stormseye
04-15-2019, 05:38 PM
I agree with you the relics really seem to be sketchy. I wish we could see real numbers but I guess that would lead to less diversity within the various aspects of the game. As there will eventually be a "best in slot" design if we saw actual numbers. I have lost battles at the roll over to 1300 ranked players and I was not even auto playing. I am nearing 100k IC so I don't know really what my drive is to compete every week other than to challenge teams and guantlet does nothing for me most of the times until the new character comes out. I have not engaged the last few weeks but will start next week since there is a new character. I know a lot of people auto play the whole week which is a really neat strategy since you can win a surprising amount of fights and that lends more credit to the AI bonuses.

Yup
04-15-2019, 05:55 PM
I think back with VHE ruled the arena and there was NO CHANCE of hitting top 50 or even top 100 without him, they had a meeting and came up with more random factors to make it SEEM more diverse. But it really isn't any more diverse in terms of rankings, only in terms of characters which will achieve similar rankings.

They don't want everyone in the top 100 to all have FFE or all have NothB Ed.... but what goes on under the hood, is still doing something to ensure that to be in the top 50 or 100 you must be using a specific range characters, with a specific set of talismans, and fighting X battles a day with an X win % (or something like that).

And I THINK that new characters/talismans, often factor as a + in that system, soewhere. They know when a new character won't be an arena-changing character above a certain ranking. So they release characters which may change the meta between rank 1200 and 250, but then won't be worthwhile above rank 250, etc. Once you have the characters for a rank range, then it's all a crap shoot and based upon number of fights to a degree. There' a reason you almost never see certain Eddies in the top teams.. and why all the top teams are using the same set of 5-10 characters. All with generally the same talismans somewhere. Any "oddball" team is there merely due to number of fights and they'll drop if they quit fighting.

I think it's structured WAY more than players realize. And as with all aspects of this "game" if you are willing to spend more, you'll do better - whether that's ironite for refills or cash for ironite for refills. Or cash for souls for new characters, talismans, etc.