In case you are keeping track..

[Stormseye]

The new standard in PVP is FURY. Forget your global HP. The goal is get Fury on your first turn and due to some insane bugs, you can continue to have the AI use your PoM/Alchemist/Sekemet/Hallowed Eddie to do multiple furies in a turn. As I posted earlier, Angel talismans from the Guantlet a few weeks ago are also regulation equipment for Alchemist and Hallowed.

The usual suspects are clear and present as well, "Non-existent" AI boost allowing for 7 attacks from Magus Lillith, Cleanse not working on attack side while opponent AI can remove stun/sleep/perfect sleep without any talisman or passive or ability removal present and my all time favorite, AI using power abilities with 3 or less power. In addition, just because your ally ability says "75% chance to X" does not make it so. More often than not you are running 30-35%. On the flipside abilities that list 15% will yield 75-80% as per Horus. Primordials have diminished but still can cause loses and to my surprise as well as Nilf's I am sure, his Witch Doctor is not to be messed with.

So any of you looking to break into to the top end take heed to know what you will be facing.

Basic top end build

Hallowed - Valor or Angel/X
PoM - Angel/X
DDE - Angel/X
Cyborg - Primordial (not as common)

Alchemist - Angel/X
Horus - Eternity
Magus Lillith - Destiny/Immunity or Sustain
Osiris Strike/Energy or others
Sekemet - Valor
Prisoner - Primordial (more common than Cyborg)
Daedelus- Valor (seen 1-20 fights)
Icarus - Avenger/Power or Destiny/Immunity (seen 3-20 fights)
Gunner Lillith - Avenger/X or Energy/Regen/X
Set,Madam,Count on occasion - Talismans vary

So max out that Fury and prepare to Rage....

[Ip4]

Stormseye you are beast in pvp,i am tired in pvp and started to play all battles on auto...

[Nifelheim]

My best pvp rank is 168 so it's good to see the top player builds. Recently came across stormeye, rags, etc and was a challenge.

[Stormseye]

My best pvp rank is 168 so it's good to see the top player builds. Recently came across stormeye, rags, etc and was a challenge.

Your build was a welcome change and more than a challenge! Took me 3 attempts to beat it! You have some awesome synergies with some uncommon characters. Keep up the good work.

[Zugzwang]

I’m surprised I’ve seen Hallowed Eddie so much. He seems more popular than Iron Eddie ever was. But what with Halloween coming up and all ;).He’s absolutely deadly with Valor Talismans on.

As for the rest you’re dead on. It’s hard to the devs to create optimal parity in PvP so we get “the usual suspects” with the usual talismans on. Then the meta changes and what was once viable isn’t anymore. I guess that’s how they want t though. Personally I’d prefer them to try to balance it more but with the constant new characters it’s not feasible to keep the older ones able to contend in PvP. Maybe they could make the usual suspect list just a little bigger? That would be the best we could hope for I think

[Daviangers]

The AI absolutely has an accuracy buff, thats about it. I wish theyd just admit it already

[DanielRacy]

The only thing to fight back Horus 99% stun chance is angel talisman on a cleanser like the Alchemist.

There is this talisman set that removes 2 buffs from each character, I think it's called redemption or something like that. Well, that plus Horus equals no mercy punishment for teams without angel.

Got a taste of that yesterday, I don't have angel, so I go with vanish or immunity and hope for the best. This defense took out 2 buffs from each of my guys, leaving my team with zero immunity (I had trap set, so at least that fucker was stunned, lol), ok fight starts and here comes Horus and BAM my guys all stunned, the rest of his team did some damage but nothing too heavy, my turn... I wish, all my guys stunned and beat up so back to him, second turn and guess what... Horus and his amazing 100% accuracy strikes again and that was it. Didn't have the chance to do one single move. This happened to me a few times, frustrating as fuck. Gotta find me one last angel talisman to complete the set and defend myself from Horus amazing 99% accuracy.

[Nifelheim]

The only thing to fight back Horus 99% stun chance is angel talisman on a cleanser like the Alchemist.

There is this talisman set that removes 2 buffs from each character, I think it's called redemption or something like that. Well, that plus Horus equals no mercy punishment for teams without angel.


there are a few options beside angel talismans. Best being magus PDK passive, clearing negative effects from up to 2+ heal all. Bastion is immune to stun. also the warrior and sentinel hellraisers passive helps against horus stuns. Gunner undead rescuer passive helps. Assassin has the hellhound with 50% chance to cleanse

[Stormseye]

it is tough if you missed out them a couple of weeks ago when they were guantlet reward. Stun has really come back with a vengeance. Alchemist with Angel is more valuable than Magus with Destiny in my opinion. So many negative effect casters in the current game and Cleanse is so easily removed that it is really not a big help, even Immunity is easily dealt with. Any more discussion of AI boost should summon Yup to chime in..lol. The desire to make different builds is easily stifled by the sheer dominance of certain characters and Horus is one of them for sure. This discourages unique builds if the intent is to climb to the top ranks in the Arena. Again this really only applies to defensive setups.

As far as attack teams go there are still quite a variety of choices that can win against these "standard" defense builds. I am currently playing something new and working out some bugs but the Alchemist is still part of it as per the above statement. I would still use Alchemist, Daniel, with Invisibility/Immunity and/or Fate/Immortality sets. Shadow will only benefit you the first turn so I would not put too much faith in that. As long as he is alive negative effects will be no issue for you and Horus will not be a burden.

The Sentinel Harpy just received a boost and is immune to stun. I actually use Invisibility and Heal Talismans on mine and it works great because the Soar ability got a percent buff and is now 100% to grant extra turn to he ally you cleanse at full shard. Witch Doctor is also quite nasty if your party gets stunned.

[Ip4]

is only my Alchemist low with healh so i must put magus lilith with him or he will be first dead without lilith…

[DanielRacy]

there are a few options beside angel talismans. Best being magus PDK passive, clearing negative effects from up to 2+ heal all. Bastion is immune to stun. also the warrior and sentinel hellraisers passive helps against horus stuns. Gunner undead rescuer passive helps. Assassin has the hellhound with 50% chance to cleanse

Sure man, there are a lot of characters that could clean it, but they are all irrelevant at high level PvP. Maybe in future updates, who knows.

[Stormseye]

As you well know Ip4 I have not run Magus on my defense for the last week, but I do run Madam with Destiny. This is to utilize the damage mitigation from Destiny set as well as her awesome passive that blocks all stat enhancing effects like Ascension, Critical Strike and Damage Charge on the enemy as long as she is alive. It may seem scary to run without a blocker but the mitigation is what helps the most. That mitigation is huge in terms of whether your other team will get one rounded or not. You could also resort back to GPD with Invisibility. His damage is still weak but again he is there to help cleanse and mitigate damage. This will allow you to have 3 allies to deal damage or push utility.

[Nifelheim]

Sure man, there are a lot of characters that could clean it, but they are all irrelevant at high level PvP. Maybe in future updates, who knows.

thats true, and i typically rank dualist I in pvp, but gauntlet is showing a lot of these irrelevant characters in a new light, with right talismans, especially in S classes.

[DanielRacy]

Hey Stormseye, yeah. My defense today is M Lilith (destiny, immunity), Hallowed Eddie (valor), Alchemist (trap, power) and Prisoner (primordial).

I'm using the same team to attack, with an eventual change here and there depending on the defense. This formation is great. I hardly lose a fight when attacking with this team. The defenses that give me the most trouble and losses by far are the ones with PoM Eddie.

Hey, I've tried Alchemist with shadow and advantage and holy shit he obliterates the enemy when the buffs kicks in with 170000 plus damage on all of them it is amazing. On attack it is doable, on defense I think he might be too exposed.

The two talisman sets I don't have are Fate and Angel, working on it.

[DanielRacy]

thats true, and i typically rank dualist I in pvp, but gauntlet is showing a lot of these irrelevant characters in a new light, with right talismans, especially in S classes.

No doubt, on Gauntlet they shine with the right talismans.

[Amarthir]

I spent the entirety of this PvP event auto playing with a team that's hugely based on self healing and buff removal.

Hallowed Eddie: Angel, Thorn
Osiris: Redemption, Sacrificial
Madam: Oracle
Icarus: Destiny, Sustaining

Here's the most important part of this team setup, the healing.
This team will basically full heal itself after every round, Madam's passive will heal the team by a fairly large amount and having Oracle Talismans will put in an additionally large heal mixed with a health boost that is made into Perfect Health by Osiris. And since Icarus is so good at stealing buffs these days, it's good for him to have sustaining Talismans for additional healing. Then of course, the last part being the angel talismans.

Buff removal is the other big thing here, when you combine Madam's passive with a Redemption set, the opponent's will start off with almost no buffs. In most cases they're completely vulnerable at the start of battle. And Icarus and Hallowed Eddie can steal anything the other guys have. I gave the Redemption Talismans to Osiris as a replacement for counterstrike since I just prefer this set.

I've been debating on putting the alchemist in there since he's so good at cleansing, but I'm considering switching out Icarus and giving alchemist angel and vampire to replace the healing. We'll see...

[Olevipoeg]

I spent the entirety of this PvP event auto playing with a team that's hugely based on self healing and buff removal.

Hallowed Eddie: Angel, Thorn
Osiris: Redemption, Sacrificial
Madam: Oracle
Icarus: Destiny, Sustaining

Here's the most important part of this team setup, the healing.
This team will basically full heal itself after every round, Madam's passive will heal the team by a fairly large amount and having Oracle Talismans will put in an additionally large heal mixed with a health boost that is made into Perfect Health by Osiris. And since Icarus is so good at stealing buffs these days, it's good for him to have sustaining Talismans for additional healing. Then of course, the last part being the angel talismans.

Buff removal is the other big thing here, when you combine Madam's passive with a Redemption set, the opponent's will start off with almost no buffs. In most cases they're completely vulnerable at the start of battle. And Icarus and Hallowed Eddie can steal anything the other guys have. I gave the Redemption Talismans to Osiris as a replacement for counterstrike since I just prefer this set.

I've been debating on putting the alchemist in there since he's so good at cleansing, but I'm considering switching out Icarus and giving alchemist angel and vampire to replace the healing. We'll see...
What about other team also having Redemption set? And Prisoner and Blue Lilith?

[DanielRacy]

Hey Amarthir, Alchemist with angel and Osiris with redemption plus hallowed to damage is GG. No doubt.

[Amarthir]

What about other team also having Redemption set? And Prisoner and Blue Lilith?

I don't see many teams that use Redemption, since they were purchase only when they came out, not a lot of people have them I would assume. As for Prisoner and Blue Lilith, I've done some experimenting to help out with that...

Basically I switched Hallowed Eddie's Angel Talismans with Serenity Talismans to block silver debuffs and I switched Icarus with the Alchemist and have him Onslaught Angel and Void Talismans. That way, Hallowed Eddie is more immune to effects and the thorn and void shields will take away those destiny buffs and heal block/permadeath opponents. As for Prisoner, you can simply use Alchemist to cure the passive disable on your characters. And cure those Primordial effects as well.

Onslaught is very useful now because it makes your character really tanky with alot of health, someone like the Alchemist would surely benefit from that.

[90mphyorker]

This week was actually the first time I’ve played a substantial amount if Arena in weeks. Can’t remember the last time I was in the too 150. And wow, I won’t be doing this for a long time. I get I’m out the loop of the current meta and that, but holy shit, this is the most unejoyable arena experience I’ve ever had. Glad I’m not playing this weekly.

[rags-6094]

Define enjoyable? For some a good tough battle is enjoyable, you get a really good idea of what the creator of the defence team had in mind when you battle them, for others enjoyable is not losing a battle,for others it's got to be a win and over in a minute anything longer is a waste of their time.
I've seen a lot of the original champs write similar things in the forums "arena is not enjoyable any more, I'd rather play Gauntlet etc, certainly this week alone I am amazed by the number of new names Im seeing at the higher end of arena, and a little disappointed there aren't a few more originals still showing how it's done, each to his own I guess.

[DanielRacy]

He is probably talking about the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Prisoner, Alchemist or the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Alchemist, W Goddess ( I always forget her name) and little variations with Osiris and Horus.

It gets old really fast if you have to fight the the same formation 300 times, with few variations here and there. I get it.

[rags-6094]

Yeah me too.... there's so many places to spend your time in LOTB these days, it's hard to choose where to spend it.
This current event is a great way to farm much needed shards for levelling up which I was left rather depleated after the recent Halloween sac event.
I would rather be in the arena or gauntlet myself but ironite is low and doing this I can trade in all the normal souls for sow and complete some challenges in one foul swoop!

[Stormseye]

Seems the defense lines are even less distinguished now.

80-90% of the fights now are the exact same build. Not sure if this is to take advantage of the bug that allows for multiple specials on the AI turn or what. That is not a shot at the player base. I see people constantly posting about "originality". That's great, if you want to play the game with Pharaoh Eddie and 3 Sandworms in the Arena and it makes you happy then enjoy. This thread is about competing in the top end and what you can expect when you do. So with that said here is your most current update.

Standard Defense:-

Magus Lillith
Sekhmet
Hallowed
Alchemist

What I have been having issues with is the constant AI accuracy buff (that doesn't exist). This allows for the Echo Sekhmet, Any Ability from HE that has a 15% chance to extra turn and Magus Lilith's insane high chance to extra turn AND always refunds the power when using Mysterious Rain. The constant "turn taking" from the Accuracy Boost balloons the Fury meter and allows for Sekhmet to Fury on the first turn and push the whole cycle again ending with Alchemist or HE using a second Fury. These combined allies/Eddie create a spectacularly perfect synergy. This is why I can't blame a single person for using this defense. It works wonderfully well. Despite the influx of new allies in the last month there has been very little change in the current Arena in terms of teams. The main reason for this is the synergy that was created when these allies were updated. You can easily blame the lack of drops for the new allies not showing up in the arena but there are many who do have them and I have seen very little change since the HE/Alchemist update. The new allies released and the builds that contain them are few and far between. They just cant compete with this common defense build.

Please address the AI Boost in terms of tuning. We all know it exists. Whether NF acknowledges it or not is irrelevant, at the very least, adjust it or give the attacking team the same boost.

[T-Man]

Oh joy! I’ve got 21 battles in the arena this week. Lowest ever. Lol

I faced that exact team in gauntlet a few battle ago as well. Such a cheese team. I hate seeing it. I did get the win. \m/

[Yup]

Hallowed Ed is overpowered where extra turns are concerned. The same way Gunner Lilith is overpowered where the "gold buff true damage" is concerned.

For the record, If you have Gunner fury relics and Hallowed and + 1 more gunner, you can build fury practically every turn. If Hallowed Ed gets multiple turns then definitely. The gunner fury relic once you get to a certain level 7/8 is the change. Not sure if it's a "bug" though.

[Blade]

Thanks for the analysis, Stromseye! Completely correctly described.
Let me add a few more thoughts, with the exception of trying to be relatively positive:

The Defense Boost
Everyone knows there is. When things go really bad, the AI only makes perfect hits and triggers all the effects. In some cases, even the order doesn't matter, which is usually the biggest weakness of the AI. This weakness doesn't justify the clearly noticeable boost, but partly explains its existence. Some matches simply can't be won. Some teams may even have to be avoided. I can get really upset about it, but it doesn't help. After all, you can also make a task out of it, how best to incorporate this into your own defense and how best to counter it by attacking. After all: Many (me too) don't use the same team in the attack - at least a little bit of variety.

Builds come and go
We've all seen it before. The mechanics change from time to time. Essentially, NF determines the speed by (examples):
- New characters (Eternals, Valkyries, Liliths, Gods)
- New Talismans (Immunity, Thorn (lol), Angle, Destiny, Eternity, Primordial, Valor, Redemption, Avenger)
- Tuning as deterioration / improvement (Vampire Hunter, Assassin Valkyre, Wrath, Gunner Corrupt Rescuer / Rainmaker, Cyborg, Hallowed, Alchemist)

Positive about the current build:
At the moment the tuning of Hallowed and the Alchemist is clearly dominant. It's actually good that for once it's not the newest characters and talismans you need for PvP. Almost all the ingredients for the current "best" build were only available recently. That means almost every player can participate in the current "best" build (admittedly almost ridiculous...relics make it completely crazy). This will stay that way for some time now, and then comes the next one. I had already wondered that the last tuning had no downgrades for e.g. Hallowed.

And now?
To be honest, I also found it a bit more exciting when I missed a lot of the characters and I had to incorporate this into my strategy as well. When the talisman effects weren't that crazy yet and it was more about the right combination of characters and "normal" talismans. This is no longer the case for many. Until a few months ago I used a lot of different attack teams, always adapted to the respective defense. With the current mechanics this is no longer necessary. Extremely coordinated characters and talismans didn't lead to much variety. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Sometimes I think that it has become very extreme with all the abilities, buffs and debuffs, talismans and also very violent: relics. With all these things NF was really very busy if you are honest. But how long can you reinvent the wheel? In the current frequency of changes it can't really go any further, can it? I probably wouldn't mind if the frequency became slower. That might also be helpful, because the balance in the game is always in great danger, which doesn't get any easier with such a huge number of influencing variables.

So despite all justified criticism we still have a rather complex game, which even leads to long posts and a lot of discussion. I try not to take the whole thing so seriously anymore, then it's a bit more about the fun again. At least I try... Have fun people!

[Stormseye]

The new expansion has been released and with it new character tuning. After completely the new content, I ventured back into the Arena to see how the new changes looked. I am pleased to report that the Hallowed Eddie and Magus Lillith tunings are quite noticeable. Magus Lillith is longer swinging 5 times to boost the Fury meter for Sekhmet to use Damnation and start the rotation again. Hallowed Eddie is no longer going 3 times every turn. The Alchemist changes are so slight they are non-issue. Overall this build will still be viable for winning on the attack side but it is nowhere near the defensive overpowered brick wall it was. A welcome change for returning players and newer players that had been stifled by this build. Those who had been accustomed to 40% hold rating will see a drop this week.


The update also brought with it a slew of new allies which will hopefully make their way into the Arena and create more diversity within the builds and allow for more players to achieve higher rankings. Though there were many listed changes, my short experience showed that the AI defense in general had been tuned down as well. What was common practice by the AI in terms of ability usage has changed and is no longer so glaring that many players felt certain fights where destined to be lost.

While it can just as boring losing matches to the same teams, it can be equally boring winning every match from a dull AI. These recent changes seem to be exactly where they were needed. We still have weeks to make a better interpretation of these new changes but what I have seen so far is a step in the right direction.

[Cefiar]

My biggest thing with Arena is the amount of time I have to sink into it over more than a week to get anywhere.

And this time of year I'm especially time poor.

[Stormseye]

Time is definitely a big factor in playing for the top end. Last week I hit 500 wins and came in 10th. Let's say the average match lasts 3 minutes so that's roughly 1500 minutes or around 25 Hours per week. That does not include the losses as well. Most non event weeks I average around 300-400 wins. So non event weeks still require a heavy dose of time to stay in the top. Think about guys like Carlos and Kumuz who clocked in over 2000 wins. Their average time was probably faster than mine but who knows.

[AcesHigh189]

What is the X stand for in talismans?

[MetalKing]

Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

[Ip4]

still didn't see someone with ferryman in pvp,also i still don't have Killer Prime :(

[Liu]

I saw a ferryman on a team by a trooper called Patrice.

[Esquatcho]

Ferryman is on ROBERTA too, teamed with Soldier Eddie/Red Ninja/Sentinal Valk

[Esquatcho]

Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

I actually reckon its more about the right talismans. I've seen teams with some of those chars that have been easy to take down. But as soon as you add eternals/primordials/valors/destiny it gets a heap harder.

Chars you will continue to get over time that will improve your competitiveness, but without getting lucky or grinding out the talisman challenges, its tough.

[Muzzleloader]

Metalking, that is how the arena has developed. You need to keep getting the new OP toon or talisman to stay competitive. Just keep playing and you will reach the warloard goal. Try to keep earning the IC for relis and such and the rest of the game will to easier to beat.

Just before relics came out I was starting to become competitive in the arena. Then they came out, and down in rank I went with losses to players that had a hoard of IC. Along with the addition of relics the game has seen a ridiculous amount of toons and talisman released.

[Ironstyle]

Anyone seeing some of the top teams switching out one of the characters and adding killer prime or assassin banshee or ferryman? I'm about to give up on ever trying to reach warlord to get the achievement. All the top teams have certain characters and if you don't have them you don't stand a chance. And we all know what those characters are . I've got well over 2500 points and am only rank 474. I think I'm going back down to 1 arena battle per day.

I was in the same boat until this most recent reset. I started at around...rank 1000, just ran my normal routine with a weak defense only attacking those with weak defenses...and somehow made it to rank 43 with just over 2500 points. I was stoked to finally get the achievement. I've since dropped in the ranks, haha. Now I sit around 400-500 which is still good for me since I don't even try to climb the ranks. I imagine I will fall to about 1000-2000, or even 3000 by the time the arena resets again.

[Yup]

Battled Ferryman a couple times. Disable his passive and he's a teddy bear to kill. He's a paper tiger.. strong on attack terribly weak on defense. Admittedly that may have just been the teams I battled. People get so anxious to use new toons they sometimes put them in the arena before they should.

[Stormseye]

I fought Patrice with Ferryman earlier. My first team did not fair well but Alexander made short work him. Those "characters" in the top end are quite easy to beat Metalking. There have been several posts about how to beat them with little to no effort and no need of "high end" characters. If you look at the "Banshee Gang" thread in the Character Discussion you will find loads of information. My defense hold has been the lowest ever with the same defense as most of the other top guys. I have said time and time again. Ranking high in the Arena is not about how good your team is in general. It is about how much time you can commit to playing and winning. The more you play the more you will win. I run three attack teams now. I had never done that in the past but with the variety of teams out there it has become a necessity. The banshee/magus defense is one of the easiest defenses to overcome compared to Iron Eddie/Primordial Prisoner or Hallowed/Sekhmet.

Look at the list of players who ranked very high last week due to the event that required so many wins. Most of these players are never ranked higher than 100 and many of them ranked in the top 25. Commitment to playing is the only real key.

Sometimes you get an easy run and sometimes you get a tough list. At rank 16 now I just cleared my board and the new board consisted of 8/10 single eddie defenses.

[Stormseye]

If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.

[edsel]

If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.

I have him with Shadow/Immunity alongside Assassin Banshee with same and Desert Marauder to trigger Charge from Perfect Hit, Ferryman in 1 hit is destroying whole teams of good characters. Love the overkill.

[Stormseye]

I managed to beat Drinkblood with Magus Derby Demon - Domination/Serenity Talismans and Alexander. Alchemist and KP went very fast since no blocker and FFE was hitting way hard. I outlasted him and bled himself to death with 2 rounds left before Draw. I need to work some more on the build but the beauty is if you have banshee/blocker and Ferryman your damage is not huge except for your Eddie.

[Zantarath]

i'm prob not gonna be able to get ferryman no luck with 25 souls and i'm out of resources to grind XD

[Olevipoeg]

If you are grinding out Dungeon mission in hopes of getting Ferryman you are working for a dominating character. Though alone, he is quite easily defeated. When coupled with an assassin banshee/blocker your chance of winning is very minimal. Expect to see many teams build around this soon.
Ferryman is not so tough to beat. One way is to keep your immunity up and Doom it. Works also with Assassin Banshee. Assassin banshee/blocker/Ferryman combo doesn't leave you room for other passives. I used Astra for grinding event dungeon. Without Doom Ferryman is not so scary anymore.

[Yup]

Ferryman is weak on AI defense even WITH A Banshee or a blocker.. I've tested and tested and tested and tested and tested and tested and battled in PvP when I see him. He's easily killed in almost all instances.

Once you understand his power comes from - A) his passive - B) to a lesser degree, removing blue buffs (Immunity, invincibility) and - C) Doom... eliminate those and he's a cuddly little marshmallow.

...... but if you can control him on manual attack.. he's an impenetrable force with the right allies.

[rags-6094]

So I just played Yups defence, nice work with the Desert Warrior with Avenger Talisman,
Towards the end of the battle Alchemist used his fury and gave the remaining members of his team soul protect, I killed Alchemist, but FFE and Guardian remained.
I bought both these defense characters up to zero and the soul protects "ghost" buff took over both of them, interesting thing was that it reenabled the revenge buff on the pair of them... these seems right to me, it should do this but I had never seen it before... didn't matter they both died just the same... this was no easy battle I should say...nice work Yup

[Yup]

hmm.. REALLY wish I could swap A Banshee for Ferryman on that team.. but the AI just ain't smart enough for that. I do swap those for ATK.. and well.. losses on attack are few and far between lately :) I've actually wiped out entire teams with ONLY Ferryman left standing and casting Doom on characters. If you can't disable his passive and/or remove silver buffs, you're screwed.

Damn near beat the AAA Gauntlet team of DD,A Banshee, M Lilith, Alchemist with ONLY Ferryman.. but alas Ferryman eventually died do to his own HP drain. Alchemist clearing doom was too great a hurdle for Ferryman to overcome by himself. (if the gauntlet has a "Draw' limit I'd have hit it 2 or 3 times - match took ffffooooooorrrrreeeeevvvveeeeerrr and I was letting it autoplay)

Biggest problem with your teem (for me) is Perfect Sleep, Rags. If Phantom Ed uses it well, it can make things tough. If Perfect Sleep isn't cast enough, well.... yeah.. check your D list for my last 2-turn outing :)

[Yup]

He can be impenetrable on attack....

5191

[Stormseye]

The Power and the Ferry -:

Lets look at the current top end defense teams and what you will be facing if you step into the Rank 100 ring.

Assassin Banshee/Blocker - far and away the easiest team to beat and it has been discussed to the extreme. Disable passive on the blocker and proceed as usual. Warrior Derby Demon is my goto for this defense team and I have a 98% win rate against it.

The Coin Toss Killer - My own defense is a variation of this but the basic principle is Killer Prime with Primordial Prisoner add 2 of virtually any other allies. Most common setup is Final Frontier Eddie/Piece of Mind Eddie plus Alchemist, Charlotte or anything really. This build focuses on the AI’s uncanny ability to go first, despite the claimed (50% chance to go either way). What happens is that Killer Prime will remove 2 beneficial effects (immunity and vanish notwithstanding) and the Primordial Prisoner will disable passives and assuredly inflcit perfect corruption on at least 2 of your team. What happens next is usually a first round cleanup with most teams falling before they even get a chance to counter. What is unique about this setup is that even if you use the exact same attack team against it and you win the toss, your team can do very little damage as the AI defense will not be hindered by the disable passive or will have Eternity shields and Perfect Immunity from Prisoner. Good luck against this team as I have tried several allies to find a reliable attack team but nothing is slowing it it down anytime soon. I have had a little luck with Madam (her passive blocking stat enhancing effects) but if she is disabled there is nothing you can do. The Alchemist can cleanse your team if you win the toss but expect to be hindered again once the opponent Killer Prime activates his passive and expect the Prisoner to disable your blocker or healer if you have one. The Prisoner seems to be able to keep you disabled even if you can manage to cleanse his Disable Passive as tested several times.

The Ferryman Four - This defense can be both weak and very strong. For the most part these teams don’t have a high defense or have too little damage with the exception of the most recent team I faced. Outside of that team I will discuss at the end, most of the teams can be outlasted as long as you have a cleanser or some immunity to the Ferryman attack. I use Alexander, Alchemist and Magus Derby Demon with Serentiy Talismans and have beaten a team using 3 Ferryman. Even if they combine the Assassin Banshee/Blocker with a Ferryman, the damage is not insane so you can return a hefty damage based team back at them and clear all save the Ferryman and then outlast him as he consumes himself.

The team I faced today was today was by far the worst case scenerio and would be the team I would use if I had Ferryman.

FFE/Killer Prime/Prisoner/Ferryman. The only thing I saw lacking in this killing machine was the Ferryman needed to have Nightmare talismans equipped to ensure nothing was awake as his partners reduced your team to lifeless pulp.

Hope that sheds some light on what’s going on lately.

P.S. also there is Disco Death Loop to deal with too..

[Natasmai]

Why do people say they just wait for ferryman to consume himself? Doesn't the HEX talisman set prevent him from ever doing that? Arent people running the hex?

[GotN]

First time I saw this defense on PvP. What do you think about it? Didn’t fight it.

5308

[Stormseye]

First time I saw this defense on PvP. What do you think about it? Didn’t fight it.

5308

I have fought a few of these builds but they have no defense really and without Prisoner the KP is manageable. I will say that KB was able to bypass my Magus/Banshee and kill Alchemist with no Disable present so it must have been the Grevious Burns but afterwards I slaughtered the team since there is no blockers.

No clue on the Hex talismans but I would just watch Ferryman consume himself now I hit him with Heal Block and the follow up with End of Night from FFE and he is dead within 2 rounds.

[Natasmai]

I have killed that team a few times, its a piece of cake. I am just running the old standard Hallowed eddie magus lilith assassin banshee and KP.

On the ferryman, I have a hell of a hard time actually getting the passive disable to apply to him (with hallowed eddie) takes me 3 or 4 tries... which means 6-8 turns as i need to wait for the power to do it. dies immediately after though, and cant kill any of my team. just annoying.

[Stormseye]

You Can't have it both ways :-

So after many months of trying find a team that can handle the powerhouse of KP/Prisoner combo I have found a team that can at minimum leave me with a draw. Anyone who is in the top 100 has faced this team and realizes that the outcome is usually determined by whoever wins the toss. Though most of the builds vary slightly the main focus is the Kp/Prisoner synergies of removing 2 beneficial effects, inflicting passive disable and granting golden beneficial effects to the team. What these teams essential lack is a guaranteed form of cleanse. Some teams has enlisted the Alchemy talismans into their builds but then they also lack a blocker so if you can survive one round then your odds of winning are much better. Those that run Assassin Banshee for her passive also lack a blocker. I have lost one match so far with my attack team and it was a result of Prisoner being revived and STILL able to inflict Passive Disable which goes against everything that has been tested for revived characters and their passives. That is another post though.


As always my builds are based on my roster and I know full well that many do not have access to every character and talisman that I have but there still may be some knowledge gain for those that can adapt this build to their rosters. The build focuses on starting the match with as many beneficial effects as possible to help against the KP passive.


Set- Shadow/Immunity - Starts with Vanish/Invincibility everytime.

Pharaoh Ramesses - Presence/Sustaining/Rando Green (though you can easily use a Cosmic here but mine are being used up)

Ferryman - Hex/Mark (you can use Immunity or any combo for the top 3 but Hex is needed for survivability and longevity. I started out with Immunity but then after the first few rounds the talismans do nothing. Mark however will continue to help you during the fight and can have surprising effects even on protected enemies. I have killed a Magus with Alchemy that was being protected by Assassin Banshee simply by landing a perfect hit and dealing 36k damage from the Marks.

Madam- Alchemy/Cosmic Talismans

On a losing toss you will start off with Passive Disable on Ferryman/Pharaoh/Madam but Set will be safe and have Invincibility and Vanish so most damage will be handled easily unless the KP has greed and will continue to attack and steal buffs. Even if Set is killed in this manner no worries as he did not have Permadeath and can be revived. As your round starts you will be cleansed by the Alchemy set and can begin attacks. I start with Set swinging to attempt to remove all golden effects. If there is a Charlotte or Alchemy wearing enemy then I target them first. Most times Charlotte will still have Golden Effects so I will use Wedjet's Gaze to remove those. If there is no Golden effects then I use Sun God to inflict Crave. Crave is so powerful against the current arena filled with Sustaining and Tower talismans. Many times the healing will kill the enemies before they have a next turn or at the start of their turn. I will then follow up with Ferryman to attempt to inflict Doom. Lastly using Madam to finish any enemies that are close to death and possibly put any to sleep as most will have no immunity left.

It is all situational since Presence can grant an extra turn you may be able to attack multiple times with Ferryman. Once the cleanser/reviver is removed, your next target should be Prisoner as only his passive will be your undoing. The power of Pharaoh's passive is that you will not take near as much damage since you are immune to Curse/Permadeath while Pharaoh is alive. Now that Prisoner is gone you can lose your whole team except Ferryman and still win the fight since the AI is not smart enough to use the correct combo to kill Ferryman if the opponent is running FFE.

This build was designed to target KP/Prisoner builds specifically but I have had success against other Ferryman builds as well Banshee/Blocker builds. Hope this helps.

[Yup]

The "all killers" team is actually kind of an easy win when I've faced it. There's not enough diversity of abilities overall. They'll remove buffs on opponents, but no negative buffs on themselves.

As for theKP/Prisoner.. that to me isn't a big hurdle. I find FFE with HP+ a bigger issue. He's way overpowered with HP+ buffs.

[Stormseye]

As for theKP/Prisoner.. that to me isn't a big hurdle. I find FFE with HP+ a bigger issue. He's way overpowered with HP+ buffs.

How have you been handling that build because it has stumped me for quite some time. I will say that FFE with reduced Max HP hits like a kitten though.

[Yup]

Prisoner has a chance of disabling Prisoner. Then Musashi (with Alchemy) will remove all the buffs from Warlord on KP. NotB Ed will strip buffs as well. Really KP's biggest threat is all the buff boosts because everyone (including me) is running him with Warlord and Sustaining.

It's far from fool-proof, but works much of the time.

Really I only lose due to the AI accuracy up. I can lose terribly, go back in and win with 1 hit a great deal.

(Disclaimer, I am just 2 global DEF relics short of having them all)

I also auto-play all matches. I'd probably win a bit more if I did the manual battle thing.

------------------

What I learned about when I made Eternal.... You'll NEVER have a truly solid team, either ATK of DEF. The MORE you fight the more often your wins seem to happen (both A and D). Now I don't know if that's because the pts are factored in or something else is. But when I was fighting constantly for a week, every day as much as possible.. I was winning VERY easily much of the time. There was no struggle to gain more pts. The struggle was merely to keep more pts than the person below me, which was ALL a matter of how MUCH I was fighting.

After this, I started auto-playing everything and simply letting wins/losses happen however they happen. Unless I'm willing to dedicate more time to the arena, I'm going to fall in relatively the same ranking every week due to the characters and talismans. If you have A, B, C, and D, with talismans, Q, R, S, T, U, V, Y, and Z.. you'll be in the top 50 or so if you burn those 10/20 SOW a day. That's really all there is to it. If you want to be above the "character/talisman" based ranking, you have to refill and fight more. If that means spending 10 ironite to refresh when you start losing 2, 3, 4 in a row, then that's what it means.

I tend to do a mega-refill (or 2) after the weekly rollover and burn through those to collect IC more easily than anything else in order to purchase relics. This puts me in the top 5 the first day or two of the week, if not #1. Then I just use the natural SOW and burn through it daily on autoplay and slowly drop to around rank 50. Now that I'm nearing the end of relics, I'll most likely stop doing that as well. If I kept fighting, kept doing mega-refills every day, then I'd be closer to Eternal every week. But doing it once was more than enough for me. It's such a waste of ironite and time.

What really gets me is I have 358 of the 360 available relics.. yet I still will lose to a team with less than half the amount of relics. The lack of transparency on relics is annoying because CLEARLY there is some voodoo under the hood happening.

-----------

In short, there are factors at play that you will NEVER know. The devs aren't going to share them. But they ensure that because of the characters you are using, you fall in a general ranking range. Then the amount of time you spend fighting does something to improve that ranking. I'm sure theres even more... but it's futile to try and figure it out. it's a closed system designed to make you THINK jsut having a good team will help you. When the reality is, a good team alone is only PART of the total equation.

[Stormseye]

I agree with you the relics really seem to be sketchy. I wish we could see real numbers but I guess that would lead to less diversity within the various aspects of the game. As there will eventually be a "best in slot" design if we saw actual numbers. I have lost battles at the roll over to 1300 ranked players and I was not even auto playing. I am nearing 100k IC so I don't know really what my drive is to compete every week other than to challenge teams and guantlet does nothing for me most of the times until the new character comes out. I have not engaged the last few weeks but will start next week since there is a new character. I know a lot of people auto play the whole week which is a really neat strategy since you can win a surprising amount of fights and that lends more credit to the AI bonuses.

[Yup]

I think back with VHE ruled the arena and there was NO CHANCE of hitting top 50 or even top 100 without him, they had a meeting and came up with more random factors to make it SEEM more diverse. But it really isn't any more diverse in terms of rankings, only in terms of characters which will achieve similar rankings.

They don't want everyone in the top 100 to all have FFE or all have NothB Ed.... but what goes on under the hood, is still doing something to ensure that to be in the top 50 or 100 you must be using a specific range characters, with a specific set of talismans, and fighting X battles a day with an X win % (or something like that).

And I THINK that new characters/talismans, often factor as a + in that system, soewhere. They know when a new character won't be an arena-changing character above a certain ranking. So they release characters which may change the meta between rank 1200 and 250, but then won't be worthwhile above rank 250, etc. Once you have the characters for a rank range, then it's all a crap shoot and based upon number of fights to a degree. There' a reason you almost never see certain Eddies in the top teams.. and why all the top teams are using the same set of 5-10 characters. All with generally the same talismans somewhere. Any "oddball" team is there merely due to number of fights and they'll drop if they quit fighting.

I think it's structured WAY more than players realize. And as with all aspects of this "game" if you are willing to spend more, you'll do better - whether that's ironite for refills or cash for ironite for refills. Or cash for souls for new characters, talismans, etc.

[Stormseye]

The reign is over...

There have been many changes in the last few months and the most notable is the long awaited quenching of the Disable Passive ability. Too long has the Prisoner and more recently Gambler/Vipers/NoTB been able to easily unseat blockers with this ability. The introduction (and quick fix) of Singularity talismans finally put the these powerhouse teams into a more manageable format. Though the Gambler/Killer Prime combo is still dominant in the Arena, it is by no means the ultimate copy cat team anymore. More and more allies and Eddies are appearing in teams that could not be viable before the Singularity talismans. Some may feel that there has been too many new talisman sets released recently but I would argue that these talismans, more than the release of new characters has allowed for more diversity in the Arena and that to me this is a good direction.


Crave is the new King...


We have also seen in the last few months an increase in the number of passive healing allies and talismans which has lengthened the amount of time it takes to complete a battle and has created new challenges to be considered when building your team. Many teams often rely on heavy hitters to "one shot" opponent teams all the while healing themselves in the process and repeating attacks via Warlord talismans or other means. While these teams can dish out huge damage they always lack a few basic protections. The balance of a group is precarious in that if you rely strictly on damage via Killer Prime/Gambler you end up lacking in protection with Immunity and Cleanse. On the other hand if your team is built to withstand all this damage you tend to not be able to do enough damage to offset the intense healing from your opponents' passives. Enter Crave. This negative effect has been in the shadows mostly and only with the appearance of the Major Malakhov has it been making a resurgence. I rediscovered it after facing Necroflip and his Gunner Krampus. I was not paying attention and healed my party with Alchemist and ended up killing my Set due to the Crave. At the time Krampus was not available so I noted that it would be something I could consider trying to implement into a build. Within a week the new event was released and low and behold Krampus was available. I purchased him and began building a team.


As stated, balancing a team is involved and a constant give and take, power for protection. While looking at the top teams I noticed that many of them had displaced their healing/cleaning Alchemy talismans for the new Singularity set. This leaves those teams open to negative effects once again. Going back to basic game abilities like Stun/Freeze would allow a lock of those heavy hitters and prevent my team from being destroyed in one round. Krampus is perfect for this roll as his basic attack Freezes, can Crave and Curses enemies and he has a chance for extra turns to boot. This makes him quite devastating against these teams with no cleanse or constant immunity. Every opponent team is different in some slight way so you must change tactics per battle but the below two teams I present have enabled me to overcome every current top team out there. The first team was my primary attack team and is now the team I use against Ferryman builds since my Crave team is unable to deal with his unique passive (yet).


Virus Eddie - Radiant/Warlord - Radiant Talismans work well here for keeping those big damage dealers from gaining offensive effects while Warlord helps power up Virus as your power hitter. His passive was key to dealing with blockers prior to the shift from Alchemy to Singularity. The primary abilities I use are System Failure for stuns across the board and Infect. Infect is great in that is can inflict Fear which can also become Doom. If the opponent has no way to cleanse Doom then they are done for. Initially he was equipped with Primordial but I felt his damage was lacking so I changed them.

Alchemist - Angel/Venom - This is your main cleanser and secondary damage dealer. Angels keep him from being stunned and Venom helps add some extra negative effects to your opponent, most notable is Crave.

The Madam - Singularity - Designed to protect your blocker from Passive Disable she also is quite useful at removing beneficial effects and sleeping opponents who cannot cleanse. A bonus of Singularity is their ability to steal all beneficial effects of a single enemy every turn. This has sometimes caused her to hit for 40k and in some instances it has caused her to get Ghost and die horribly but it is most likely a bug.

Set - Labyrinth - My favorite blocker since his release, the Labyrinth talismans seem tailor made for him. Grand Deception is so useful with it's Trap effect locking up Viper Charlottes and his extra turn ability makes him the best blocker in the game right now. A cosmic talisman with Invisibility or one with a Burn effect would make him complete for me.


Crave Team

Pharaoh Ramesses - Mark/Sustaining/Cosmic - Pharaoh is great for his passive and his team survivability is amazing. I had some success with him earlier this year but in the current Arena his is really shining. His talismans can easily be changed as I have tried Redemption, Eternity and a few other setups with success. The main ability I use is Sun God which inflicts Crave and can have extra turns. Wedjet's Gaze is also great for removing Golden Effects. His passive prevents permadeath so Ankh of Life has saved my team and allowed me a victory on multiple times. The Mark talismans really help in dealing damage to protected enemies. Often times the Mark tends to be the killer of the attack.

Gunner Krampus - Alchemy/Cosmic - There may be overlap in cleansing and room for alternate talismans but I like the extra protection and his main task is really the setup man. Thresh completely stops enemies from taking any action on their turn and even Trooper Talisman Charlottes get Frozen before their Perfect Immunity lands. Multiple attacks allow you to pick and choose who you want to hit and helps control the battle. Once frozen you are free to hammer them with Ramesses Sun God ability. Once Crave is on the opponent all those heals from passives and Charlotte just amount to damage. So many enemy kills by their own healing hands.

Set/Madam - Both run the same setup as above and for the same reason.


Hope this helps you guys look for new opportunities and ways to beat those tough top teams. See you on the battlefield.

[Fudjo]

Hey, Stormseye!

I saw that your Ramesses team smacked me around in the Arena, so I started building one of my own. That's a really cool team! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it all!

[Zugzwang]

Keep studying the game Stormseye.

[purplepeople]

I love following your posts about the Arena, Stormseye. Just as I read this, I came across your Crave Team in my Attack list and fought the battle just to see it in action. I managed to beat it in a tough battle -- first time I've ever not been trounced by you. And yes, it was all because of Crave (and a bit of Mark for the Labyrinths). Crave is the one skill that has gotten me competitive (somewhat) in Arena, using DDE and M Derby Demon, and it was one of your earlier posts that put me onto it. It really helped that the AI neglected to revive the team when I had it down to Pharaoh Rameses. Anyway, thanks as always for kindling new ways to think about strategy.

[Stormseye]

It's been a while since my last update and I feel it may still be a bit premature as we are in the midst of Mega Event and we have yet to see the full arsenal of Lords of Light but let us begin...

His name struck fear....

Alexander the Great has once again claimed his title as Master of the Arena. This main reason being due to the Orbit talismans and his ability to ignore all negative effects. The set and passive make for one mean machine in terms of battle control. Not only does his passive protect him from negative effects, he can still give his team Perfect Immunity by way of Onward March and the Orbit set also clears the enemy team of all beneficial blue effects and protects allies from True damage, making NoTb Eddie quite sad. You still find Viper equipped Alexanders but they are few and far between in comparison. I did run across one team with Dominance and Persecution on Alex which made for a longer than expected battle. Nevertheless until they make a change to his passive or Orbit talismans I don't see him being dethroned any time soon. The AI is pretty good at managing power for Devastating Strike to heal at just the right time when there are still enemy allies but when he is alone he will get greedy and use Pain and Glory and that is when you finish him off.

Popes on a Rope....

The Hierophants have been supporting the top teams for a few months now and they carry with them quite a punch. The two most commonly used are the Magus and the Gunner.

The Magus passive prevents enemies from gaining any new beneficial effects after the first turn which makes him really handicap teams that rely on beneficial effects to deal damage. Running with 3 Gunner/3 free slots he is most often found wielding Space, Radiant(possibly redundant?), Angel, Serenity or Persecution sets. Though he can wear Primordials, it is less common. Singularity talismans keep his basic attack to minimal damage but his passive is what causes him to be the first target of my attacks.

Gunner Hierophants come in two varieties - Viper or Trooper. With yet another powerful passive, he really is a complete package. His passive prevents any enemy healing and grants him Perfect Immunity and Sleep Shield for the duration of the battle. The latter being dismissed by opposing Orbit talismans. His basic attack with 35% chance for extra turns, make him a descent damage dealer and hitting 6 times per attack is no small damage. Stop and Blind will also slow the enemy down, especially those Warlord wearing opponents. The AI will usually use another ally's power before he selects Commune and this is likely due to the 7 power cost. Wearing Trooper talismans is when he really supports a team. Against multi-hitter teams that rely on negative effects you really can't ask for a better defender. Sometimes you can land effects before the perfect Immunity hits and sometimes you can't. It feels like Silver effects are less likely to land compared to red effects. At least it seems like that with Doom. In terms of priority of kill, I usually go for Charlotte over the Gunner but that is how my team works.

Let there be (Lords of) Light...

Fresh from the Dungeons this gruesome twosome has made a solid home in 90% of the top teams. Magus and Warrior LoL are the first purchasable in the series and are changing the dynamic in wild ways. As of yet I do not have either so my comments are strictly based on combating them in the Arena and are limited by my ignorance of Awakening them. I believe the other Lords were available via the release event but none have made a proper showing in the Arena to date.

Magus LoL - At first glance he comes in at a slightly descent multi-hitter and that can ghost himself upon death. Once Awakened (not sure what star level) he can have a high chance of inflicting Dark Ghost (silver version of Ghost) or Doom on all enemies with a 2 turn timer. This leaves many teams with only 2 rounds to win or deal with the effects. I have to tested to see if Dark Ghost can be cleansed by Alchemist or similar allies who can remove silver effects. I am also not sure if Charlotte or Serenity can prevent it. I will begin further testing next week after reset. He can also wear Singularity or Alchemy talismans with his 3 Magus/3 free slots.

Warrior LoL - What do you get when you cross Viper talismans with a Warrior Lillith and a smidge of Sekhmet? Well you get a powerhouse that is all business and no talk. Of the two dominating lords, he is slightly superior in my opinion. This is due to his ability to wear Orbit or Vipers with 3 Warrior/3 Free slots. Out of the gate he comes with Counter which triggers quite often and his basic attack will decrease your team max HP by 10% every time he swings. On top of that he also has a 35% chance to have an extra turn. Upon Awakening he also can remove Perfect and regular Immunity with each hit. Overall one of the best damage dealers in the top end right now.

Major Malakhov, Charlotte and Killer Prime are still also found in most of the top teams along with a few Magus Lilliths, Raven Witches and Madams but the latter are still paired up with Gambler Eddie builds from month's past.

So what can you do about it? Well power does not come at a price and that price is protection. Many of these builds still lack cleanse in one form or another and this leaves them vulnerable to stun and freeze and silver effects. As we used to say in the MMORPs "Dead DPS deal no damage" the same holds true for stunned and frozen allies. Once you have these opponents locked up they can't use all those nasty abilities. You will still run into a blocker/singularity team (mine for instance) but most of these teams using these big allies can deal with them with ease. On the flip side these blocker teams don't have the damage ability to handle many of these hard hitters with their huge arsenal of passives and abilities attached to their basic skills. Despite the number of similar teams throughout the top ranks there are still viable combinations that can overcome them that don't include the exact same builds. Orbit Alex makes this more difficult but then you can also rely on Silver negative effects which Orbit do not clear and with the absence of Alchemist in the top end there are fewer allies that remove silver effects.

Mark my words...

Ever the champion of the unsung hero allies, I present to you the Magus Crimean Soldier. Featured during a previous event, this ally is readily available in most souls that can yield a 4* character.
His basic attack deals 4 hits of random damage to all enemies which helps against Orbits since you have a chance to deal Physical or Magical damage. Next you have 75% chance to inflict 1 mark for 2 turns on each hit and 25% chance to Freeze each enemy. Lastly he has a 25% chance for an extra turn. His passive removes immunity and freezes an enemy every turn and if the opponent has no way to remove negative effects you can use his power move to freeze them permanently if they are already frozen as well as inflict permadeath, perfect silence and smite. His talisman slots of 2 Assassin/1 Sentinel and 3/Free makes him a prime candidate for Greed/Warlord which can turn him into a team killer. I have taken out full teams due to his constant attacks and setting off marks. Mark works really well against Labyrinth wearers. I have been working on a team to utilize his skills but there are still some kinks and I will present it once I have it adjusted.

As far as my own team I have been able to endure these new allies and changes because my team is mainly designed as a defense team and while slower in most battles I still manage to win against the top teams. Hope this gives some insight into what is going on at the top end and lets some of you find ways to beat these great new teams. I have never been one to bash copy teams because why would you bash something that works? It is the nature of the game and we learn to adapt and conquer. Good luck and see you all in the Arena.

[Fudjo]

Ever the champion of the unsung hero allies, I present to you the Magus Crimean Soldier.

Hell yes! The one week I finished on top, I was using Blue Crimean. He is an absolute beat stick. I have Greed + Warlord on mine and it's a fantastic setup. Give this guy a shot.

[scott-5496]

Fantastic write up Sir! These are such a great insight into the arena side and importantly into team and ways of using allies that I had not thought of - some I had and already use but the Crimean I have barely looked at and a have a few I think! You have a great insight and it is useful for the est of us thast do not go into the top 100 - I rarely bother these days as not got the time (or indeed your skills in remembering all the character traits that you need to create such strong teams.

I for one copy lots of teams - I have had my own set ups of course but when I new meta occurs I tend to face a great team that I cannot beat and look to use it for myself - often set up a little different perhaps but I do not have lots of time to startegise that much and rely on the community to help me with tactics on new difficult dungeons and the like - most of the time I am fine - I use a heavy hitting team with top talisman and that usually works! No real skill, just a battering ram!!

Anyway, I for one want to say thank you to you and others on here who do this sort of thing - it is a real help to us lazy sods (well me for sure) who have no memory and less time to dwell on the nuances of changing a meta - fantastic commitment and time needed to be so knowledgabloe about so many aspects of the game...and also for being in the top tiers and sharing that experince against such varied team types.

My defence team is ancient but where I am in the arena means I catch some folk off guard as my team looks soft - I still pick up a usual 60%-70% defence win rate but that is just because of where I am. As soon as I hit the top 200 that drops, unsurprisingly, as my team gets battered to death by those with a mastery of the characters and synergies needed and who cannot get caught out by a visual slight of hand. Saying that I did just change my defence a few days ago and I think it may be similar to the ones you mention above!

All HAIL Stormseye!

[Zugzwang]

Still would really like to see more parity in the arena part of the game. The meta is always so limited and narrow. Not enough choices
for players to customize according to their tastes and style. Either use the flavor of the month (which always includes a new talisman set) or lose. Getting boring.

[edsel]

This is my go to post when I'm lagging in PvP, things have really amped up recently and I am hitting barriers more often. My team is so last month, no Max Awakened anything or Lords going up against new characters and builds that are very challenging. The power gap is increasing between the have and have not, right now I am in the not category and struggle to get 4000 points. All teams up here are beating me up and I am becoming very ready to heavily invest in my roster to remain able to compete.

[Yup]

The "master" of the arena is how the Ai gets special favor....

- I have Orbit Talismans in play.. Yet Raven Witch is doing damage on my side.. Yet my Raven Witch CAN'T damage the AI team if they have Orbit Talismans.....

- I have Labyrinth Talismans in play, yet my team takes damage pretty much every hit..(Not from Quantum talisman character) the AI character with Labyrinths can take 6 or 7 turns because it refuses to take damage 90% of the time. I've killed entire teams 5 or 6 times because the Raven Witch with labyrinths WON'T take damage when she's at a sliver of HP.

- My Charlotte gets populated with Silver buffs.... no passive disable anywhere in sight.

- My Characters die and revive and NO passives will function EVER again. The AI characters die and revive with FULLY FUNCTIONAL passives.

- My Raven Witch will not clear some silver buffs, ever.. among these are perfect crave, perfect blind, and perfect stun.

- W LOL on the AI side counters EVERY attack, regardless of "awaken" level. I mean EVERY attack unless frozen/stunned. My W LOL counters roughly 60% of the time.

- Charlotte with vipers on AI side... see above.. counters EVERY attack and ALWAYS heals the character with the least HP - My Charlotte with vipers, counters about 70% of the time and pretty much always heals the character with the MOST HP (She won't even heal herself when close to death).


It is simply frustrating when things do not function as they are expected to function.

I've given up on PvP. It's such a shit show with the same teams over and over and over an over and the same inaccuracies over and over and over and over...

[Stormseye]

There is a definite change in the AI this week as Alex has learned to strike first before his allies to ensure they are free of negative effects and managed to not heal when crave is present on the team. I am waiting until the Awakening 3 launches before I post full disclosure on the AI in the game but the subtle changes are noticeable and certain team builds will need to be adjusted if they wish to remain the best option.

[Stormseye]

Greetings Troopers,

I realize it has been several months since my last update. Some of this delay is in part to personal time constraints and some of it is because the development team has taken a, much appreciated, focus on communicating the current state of the Arena via Updates from Space Station 5. I apologize in advance for the length as there was more information than I expected.

That being said, I wanted to toss in my perspective on what has been happening in the top end of the much debated, Arena of Anger.

A woman scorned….

Dark Lilith - Though the Lords of Light still hold court on some teams (including mine) They have all but disappeared from the top teams. Dark Lilith, however, continues to bring her mighty power of Perfect Disable to the fight and with the addition of some interesting ally assistance she can be the thorn that does not go away. She can carry an assortment of talisman combinations, none of which are a detriment. Sacred, Serenity, Cosmic Echo, Warlord and Inspiration are the more common sets, but she leaves nothing to waste in terms of utility. Inspiration and Cosmic Echo tend to be the quite effective for inflicting Perfect Disable on the first turn. Her power moves can pull your team back into the fray and grant them all a chance for an extra turn.

Somewhere in Eternity…

As far of the Eddies go, the predominate trio are Cyborg, Bounty Hunter and Eternal Champion Eddie. There are others notable Eddies such as Van Helsing and Oni but these are few and far between in the top 25.

Cyborg (max awakened) – By the far the most common Ed, leads his charge with a passive ability that is incredibly powerful. Once he reaches 1hp he will revive his whole party and grant them all a host of beneficial effects including echo. In addition, he will inflict 6 hits of random damage to random enemies with every action and it cannot be avoided. With very little variance in talisman setup, he will be wearing Sacred/Serenity and his proprietary T3 Comic.

Bounty Hunter Eddie – While he lacks the passive and fury of his predecessor he still offers a unique tidbit in place. His passive stuns a single opponent for the duration of the battle which basically forces the opponent to battle with only 3 members. Passive Disable or revive is the only cure. The former is a feat not easily accomplished considering his passive also reduces the trigger chance of all enemy skill effects that are not 100% by 75%. He also steals 3 power and 30% fury with every action. His talisman setup is the same as Cyborg so silver effects will be of no consequence.

Eternal Champion Eddie – Freshly reskinned and updated, this Ed has been a surprise against many players including myself. He is one of the easier Eddies to obtain and comes ready to use out of the box. While his basic abilities mirror the original version, his fury has been replaced by a passive which supports his team on every front. First, he is immune to True damage and he is granted Perfect Immunity for the duration of the battle. He also reduces his damage taken by 50% and reflects back 100% of the remaining 50% as random damage to each enemy and inflicts a random negative effect whenever he takes damage. Second, he grants a random ally (not including himself) an extra turn with every action and third, he will steal a random golden effect from each enemy and steal all beneficial effects from a random enemy with every action. His most common talisman setups are Yin/Yang and Quantum but I have seen Warlord on him to some very damaging effect.

Di’Anno Dynamic Duo…

Wrathchild – Though he was strong when he first arrived, he was recently given another boost which propelled him in 80% of the top teams. With little debate, Wrathchild is one of the best utility allies in the arena right now. From inflicting Marks and Crave to removing negative effects and granting extra turns to reducing all damage taken by all allies and reflecting it back to all enemies, he is a total package. That is all done without talismans! Now add to that a Valhalla talisman set and you have an ally that will revive your team AND himself over and over and grant them Perfect Heal Shield and Endure for the duration of the battle. On occasion you will find him wearing Yin/Yang but among the top teams Valhalla is his mainstay.

The Killer – Passive Disable still remains the most misunderstood feature in the game and The Killer is no exception. It this reason that The Killer makes his way into the top end of the Arena. His power and passive abilities both involve Disable Passive functions. Which can cause your team to be stifled from any passive benefits you may be leaning on. The other reason he has inserted himself into many top teams is his ability to wear the Forge talisman set. The set has many functions but the key is the ability to grant Perfect heal Shield and Cleanse to all allies for the duration of the battle if any ally’s health reaches 1hp. It is rare to see him with any other talismans.

One last consideration of these two allies is that when combined with Cyborg Eddie they can produce a vicious cycle of reviving and cleansing that will leave you dizzy at the amount of infinite duration beneficial effects they can generate with little to no effort on their part. All the passives and talismans work with incredible synergy. It is this synergy that makes this the team the most popular setup in the top end.

Hear the Mandrake Scream….

Moonchild – Unless you just started this game two days ago, you well know the Moonchild has caused a shift in the current arena game unlike any other. He is all but essential in any top team right now. Immune to all negative and beneficial effects (with the exception of passive disable at the start of the battle only), Moonchild has become a staple in 95% of the top teams. His endurance comes from his ability to wear the Labyrinth talisman set. His basic and power moves are not without merit as he can Stun and Doom as well as inflict Passive Disable with his power move. All the while avoiding any negative effects an enemy may throw at him. Though his passive was recently curtailed, he still has 7 rounds to limit opponents from using any power and fury moves as well as requiring all attacks be perfect or miss entirely. He is most commonly found wearing either Cosmic Echo or Cosmic Vamp with his Labyrinth set. The latter of these can be quite frustrating.

Of Gods and Gimps…

Though recently added to some top team rosters, the newly awakened Prisoner and Horus are of note but have yet to make a proper claim in the high stakes arena and with certain features not functioning properly I cannot make any accurate commentary on their impact so let’s leave this space blank for the time being….

Pay the Devil his due…..

The Beast – Not to be outdone by Moonchild, The Beast has been the epicenter of contention of all manner of players, not just the upper echelon of Arenites. After it was recently discovered to have an ultimate combination resulting in the Beast attacking a multitude of times. The Lantern/Warlord talisman sets lifted the Beast from novelty to the ultimate terror in the Arena. I will stray from my usual perspective to a more personal experience as it has been brought up by some players that the use of this combination was “lame”, “weak” and “cheating”. What happened with this combination is an issue that plagues game designers across all games. It is an impossible foresight to see what players will come up with in terms of combinations of skills and abilities and in this case talismans, that they can create monsters of unintended design.

In my limited usage of the Beast early in the arena week as an Attack team, I did not experience any “infinite” loops nor did the game ever lock and require me to force start. What I did see is that once The Beast would kill an enemy or any of the above mentioned allies would revive and/or heal/cleanse themselves, The Beast would ceases his onslaught of attacks. The next turn you could start the cycle again, but it would always stop once revive/heal/cleanse activated. Against Cyborg teams this combo was rather futile because once Cyborg reached 1hp he would revive the party and eventually the Beast would die from Doom or damage. The success I had were more against Ed Champion teams but due to his immunity to True damage (which the Beast deals), it was also limited to the ability to place Passive Disable on the Ed Champion. Of my 365 victories I would say less than 30 of those were a result of using the Beast on attack. The remaining wins came from my Doom Boom and subsequently the new Pharaoh Dog King builds after the patch on Thursday.

In terms of allegations of racking up “free wins” from the use of The Beast in my defense team. I present to you the cold hard facts of numbers. In the below video you will see my rating pre-patch as 34/113. This means only 34 wins were garnered via The Beast in defense with 113 losses showing that teams were more than able to defeat the defense. As mentioned by another player “the purpose of a defense team is to defend”. Some of the players were not around when Iron Eddie was raining down Fury every turn, when Killer Prime was going “infinite” turns with Greed/Warlord, when Magus Lillith was “swinging 7 or 8 times”, when Clansman Eddie was granting extra turns over and over, when Eternity Eddie was cycling Sekhmet to fury over and over. These are the hurdles that designers have to endure and correct. The community is there to support that and give the feedback necessary to facilitate the changes. They may be slow but eventually do come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3YD8p6gPRY

I also feel that no one needs to justify their defense or any other aspect of their play style to anyone more especially to members of what is supposed to be a supportive community. This game is played, for all intents and purposes, as a solo game. We are all playing against the AI. Anyone who has ever accomplished the task of standing on the podium will tell you that defense wins did not put them there. The way to reach the podium is through offensive wins and time. Pure and simple.

So now how do you handle these behemoths of battle?....

The list of viable counter characters has grown against the slow expanding of diversity within the top teams. We have now moved from a power 4/6 characters within all teams to an 8/10 range of differing enemies.
What does seem to still hold steady against these teams is negative effects and same turn combinations. Options like Stun, Freeze and Sleep still work since Alchemy talismans have all but left the top teams. Crave but not Perfect Crave is also a great killer of high health regenerating teams. Silver effects are mostly out due to Serenity talismans abounding with the exception of Doom/Dark ghost. One of the biggest assets to have in your arsenal is protection from passive Disable and the ability to inflict passive Disable yourself. This protection is most commonly done via Singularity talismans and/or the ability to cleanse your team or negative effects.

Examples of same turn combination include inflicting Doom/Dark ghost and utilizing an ally that can remove effects like Gunner Krampus or The Killer or Magus Lord of Light. Inflicting Crave and then hitting an enemy that has heal shields will result them healing themselves to death. Given the amount of passive abilities and skills presented in defense. Patience and timing are also going to be your strengths to overcome these battles. Sometimes missing an attack on purpose due to Moonchild passive is the right thing to do until the heal shield has faded on the opponent. Moving the game play from x3 to x2 may help you hit Perfect with more frequency.

Below is the team I used the most in my run this week in the Arena. This build focused mainly on inflicting Doom/Dark Ghost and then using Magus Lord of Light to set it off.

Madam Fortune – Valhalla/Cosmic Redemption or Cosmic Serenity – Hopefully this ally makes her way to the Heroic rotation soon as her skills were key to this build. Her passive inflicts passive disable/perfect disable across the board to any enemy not protected by immunity first turn. The Redemption talisman helps remove 2 effects at the start of the battle. Sadly, I was unable to take advantage of her healing because of the talisman choices. But she does heal all allies for 50% of Max if she is vanished at the start of the turn. Next her basic attack deals 1 hit random and 1 true to all enemies, removes all negative effects including silver from one ally and inflicts Crave/Perfect Crave but most importantly inflicts doom on anyone inflicted with Passive/Perfect Disable or Crave/Perfect Crave. This means first turn Doom on some enemies. This also means that Moonchild can have passive disable on him at the start of the battle and allow you to use power abilities.

Cyborg/BHE – Serenity/Sacred/T3 – As explained above these two eddies are great support and damage in your team. No need to expand further as to what they bring to the team. For the purpose of this build though his key function is to generate power via his Tase basic attack. You need power to active Magus LoL

Magus Lord of Light – The second key in this build. Not only can he carry the much needed, Singularity set to keep your team safe from Passive Disable, his power move also instantly kills any target with Doom/Dark Ghost. This prevents them from being revived by any means and there are many.

Moonchild – He has become staple of all top teams and with good reason. Though with recent changes he may finally become less of a requirement and this is not entirely a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHQJH12H7zQ

Cheers to all and see you in the Arena!

[infinite dreamer]

Thank you, excellent analysis as usual Stormseye!

[Esquatcho]

Cheers to all and see you in the Arena!

How this hasnt taken off in comments is beyond me. You are a bastion of sage advice my friend. A true guru of the game!

[Beddie]

How this hasnt taken off in comments is beyond me. You are a bastion of sage advice my friend. A true guru of the game!
Yeah, it’s a great summary of the previous year of PvP from a simple perspective

[Horus-2545]

As a newer player, I really appreciated reading this, including putting the Beast "bug" into perspective and giving some stats on that. I had also asked others to give good examples of some of these other bugs (which I defined as unintended consequences in a software program) and did not get responses, but you have listed a number of them. I do think that those would could beat the Beast attacked you, and that many avoided you merely because of the Beast bug, so those stats do not necessarily prove the point. But I'm getting off topic.
You are really knowledgeable in the game, and it is nice that you have shared your knowledge base with the rest of us. I will say that you've left one Eddie off your list that I have seen on a number of teams (even if Cyborg teams now dominate)--Van Helsing Eddie because he can wear Forge and he can heal and clear doom. That makes him good on an offense team, although maybe not as good on a defensive team. And yes Lilith continues to be the most explosively unpredictable (in the way that Major Malakhov can be). Thanks again!

[Maiden]

Thanks a lot for work Stormseye! I really missed your posts here, so nice to read you again!

How do you work around against a Max Cyborg (with their classic Serenity/Sacred/T3)? I´ve been trying crave but I have the strange feeling that crave is not doing enough dmg in relation to the healing received. Also Hierophant Gunner, but I can´t make him survive long enough no matter whats talisman on him... finally the only option that sometimes works for me are heavy hitters plus passive disable... could you expand your thoughts about strategies against him?

See you in Arena! (finally I've been ranking high enough to see you yeeey.. I never win of course :P )

[Stormseye]

Cyborg can be tough for sure but Crave and most recently Marks have really helped me overcome him. The update to Moonchild also helps make Cyborgs easier to deal with but you need to consider Musashi now before you can deal with Cyborg. Once Musashi is down you need to focus on timing and hitting perfect and missing purposely. Usually I try and kill all allies leaving Cyborg and Moonchild standing.

So depending on what attack team I am using. If I have Madam Fortune in then my focus is to put Crave on Cyborg. Yes it is bugged in that he will heal through the hits but if you time the attack to make sure that he does not have his heal shield up then it will kill him. Another thing to try and keep him stunned. Usually this is done via Moonchild. You also need to keep Passive Disable on him at all times because if he drops to 1hp his passive will revive his allies. As noted Marks also help overcome his healing and I accomplish this by using the Mark Cosmic talisman. You usually need to have at least 3 sets on him or he will just heal through unless you have Crave on him too.

Another tactic to use once you can use your own power moves, either through the use of Pharaoh King Dog or after 7 rounds and Moonchild's passive has expired, is to use Cyborg's Beam Attack and Calibrate skills. Remember that Max awoken Cyborg will deal 6 hits of damage to random enemies with every action. Most of the time Calibrate will not trigger the Sacred talismans and allows you an extra turn. The key again is to keep Cyborg stunned as much as possible. Beam Attack is great in that it will lower his Max Hp and Special for the duration of the battle. Of course if he gets loose and has a chance to fury it will return to normal levels.

There are other Eddie's and allies that help deal with Cyborg and my Clansman and I have been working on builds but they are all still in the experimental phase. Maybe in the next update.

[Maiden]

Amazing mate, thank you so much! I´ve trying marks a lot recently, its an oversighted effect sometimes but they are really powerful...Wrathchild with mark talis plus his passive it's maybe key to work further.

Again thanks for sharing so much, truly appreciated!

[Tengu316]

Stormseye, you have NO idea how many of my questions you answered in a single post! I haven't been messing around in Arena much, but I had a helluva month in January, getting Gambler Eddie, Angel Eddie, and FFE along with a host of valuable toons so I decided to see what I could do. You, my friend, saved me a ton of time and SoWs. :)

Cheers!

[legacy_of_not]

Thanks Stormseye. This explains why the gauntlet challenge with Max Cyborg, Max Moonchild, Mushashi, and the Killer are wiping the floor with me. Will try this advice.

[wipp]

If you have problems with sacred serenity,wait until you go up against cyborg with grail. It always comes down to a tricky win. He cleanses passive disable and will revive the whole team if your not careful

[scimitar]

Your defense, Stormseye. A few points:
1. Does not protect against doom
2. A bunch of Yggdrasil - the dog does not work (yggdrasil - Lilith works)
3. Banshee just doesn’t want to die, she has one blow left - her health is replenished by 100%. I don’t know how, but I managed to break through it. I thought it was impossible7932

[Stormseye]

Scimitar,

Thanks for the feedback.
Oni does cleanse Doom once his Sword is empowered from Fury. Magus Banshee can also cleanse.
PDK is not there for a blocker but to allow for fury/power moves against Moonchild.
Banshee is the real blocker with Yggs and yes she is hard to kill.

I am working on changes to the team currently as we experiment in the Lab. Trying to phase out Moonchild entirely. Too bad Shadow Wickerman is still broke though I did test it against Scream For Me Eddie and he was unable to inflict Marks but did not test Doom. if Shadow Wickerman was fixed the build would be more durable.

[Stormseye]

If you have problems with sacred serenity,wait until you go up against cyborg with grail. It always comes down to a tricky win. He cleanses passive disable and will revive the whole team if your not careful

It is tricky but Mark Cosmic on Moonchild makes it much easier. The hard part is not over damaging Cyborg and then use Moonchild power move to drop Passive Disable and Marks on Cyborg then hit him perfect and boom he goes without any revive. If you don't have that option then make sure you kill any Forge wearer first as it will reset Grail Cyborg passive constantly. Once the Forge wearer is removed then Cyborg will only revive once. Thereafter you can just kill him without fear of revive. Best way to kill forge wearer is with Doom/Dark Ghost/Permadeath. The cycle is tough to master especially when you have to deal with Musashi with Yggs. Which is why so many people use this defense as they are relying on the revive and difficulty in landing negative effects on Cyborg with Grail.

[Yup]

If you have problems with sacred serenity,wait until you go up against cyborg with grail. It always comes down to a tricky win. He cleanses passive disable and will revive the whole team if your not careful

Mercenary :)

[scimitar]

Scimitar,

Thanks for the feedback.
Oni does cleanse Doom once his Sword is empowered from Fury. Magus Banshee can also cleanse.
PDK is not there for a blocker but to allow for fury/power moves against Moonchild.
Banshee is the real blocker with Yggs and yes she is hard to kill.

I am working on changes to the team currently as we experiment in the Lab. Trying to phase out Moonchild entirely. Too bad Shadow Wickerman is still broke though I did test it against Scream For Me Eddie and he was unable to inflict Marks but did not test Doom. if Shadow Wickerman was fixed the build would be more durable.

Talis banshee should not let doom appear in principle. Oni's rage is fine. And yes, your fighters died from doom.
One more thing: defense tests are very different from what is happening in the arena

[Stormseye]

I suspect that the culprit is, as always, Passive Disable and its broken ability to hidden disable even talismans as well as protected allies.