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View Full Version : December 2018 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY



Kaz_LOTB
11-29-2018, 02:07 AM
This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the December 2018 Tuning Preview Notes (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?11032-December-2018-Tuning-PRELIMINARY&p=86657#post86657).

Cefiar
11-29-2018, 03:06 AM
Nice to see Hallowed Eddie getting a bit of a reduction, along with Alchemist.

Not so sure about the change to Doomday Eddie tho. Oh well.

Looking forward to spending some of my FC on those talismans. About time I had something I could buy with them that I don't already have or don't need (eg: skill shards or mythic souls - as I have all of the mythic souls).

druid138
11-29-2018, 03:19 AM
Yeah, Cefiar, those talismans for FCs will be nice! But, I also want to see some characters added to the FC Store. Beast and other exclusives. But also some Alexander-style offerings.

At first, Alexander created quite the uproar. But, I'm good with any certain path for obtaining new characters. RNG be damned, I say.

madmanmeyer74
11-29-2018, 03:25 AM
Based on the essence upgrade to the snowmen and wicked reindeer, we will be seeing another sac event similar to the pumpkin one back in October. Better start stocking up on gold and resources because if it is like that one then it is going to be a very Merry Christmas indeed!

rags-6094
11-29-2018, 03:30 AM
They've been very tough on old HE I gotta say, but It's a good thing I think, one of my regular attack teams is HE Alchemist and M Lillith all of them nerfed to varying degrees. That's ok that team combination was getting very boring no matter how good they are.
Looks like POM will be very popular in the arena again! Not to mention the incoming Eternity Eddie.. interesting times to come!

druid138
11-29-2018, 03:32 AM
Based on the essence upgrade to the snowmen and wicked reindeer, we will be seeing another sac event similar to pumpkin one back in October. Better start stocking up on gold and resources because if it is like the pumpkin one then it is going to be a very Merry Christmas indeed!

Indeed, my friend. Time to start preparing for the winter fire.

GrimDusk
11-29-2018, 03:33 AM
Damn, no buffs to Carriage Rider or any of the other worthless characters? I suppose it's not too terrible. Though, I would like it if Cyborg Eddie's future basic attack has a greater chance of stealing effects; it rarely procs now.

druid138
11-29-2018, 03:36 AM
Damn, no buffs to Carriage Rider

Carriage Rider is so due for an overhaul!

HuckFinn150
11-29-2018, 04:46 AM
I have to see the reduction of DDE, but also agree that Carriage Rider is long overdue for an upgrade. I wish they'd give him a blunder bust, to match the image better.

Amarthir
11-29-2018, 04:49 AM
So sad nothing for Carriage Rider like the others. I'm glad Hallowed Eddie and Alchemist and Blue Lilith are getting de-pegged but hmm. Will they still be viable is the real question... Hmm. We will see. Hmmhmmhmm....

Carriage Rider please and thank you :3

druid138
11-29-2018, 04:56 AM
I have to see the reduction of DDE, but also agree that Carriage Rider is long overdue for an upgrade. I wish they'd give him a blunder bust, to match the image better.

He's based on Death on the Road, right? The scythe seems right to me. Did I miss something?

Zerynx
11-29-2018, 05:31 AM
Big fan of the Assassin Wickerdeer here. Use him on my Dungeon teams all the time. Mark for Death is great to kill the dragon and now it will grant an extra turn automatically? Nice!! Maybe I can use the echo tails on him elsewhere.

The Gunner Wickerdeer can now be used for Primoridals? Gotta love that. These Wickerdeer give all year long!!

Hate to see any Nerfs, but to the Magus Lilith and DDE? That really sucks.

EnricoPalazzo
11-29-2018, 08:19 AM
I'm currently facing Hallowed Eddie, Alchemist, Sekhmet and Blue Lilith for the second time in a row in SS Gauntlet (nasty surprise). Beat them in the first round of SS with about the only team that can win reliably, but it looks like I should wait for this update to make my life easier...
That being said, the nerf for Lilith and DDE is not really necessary IMO. Alchemist was the most overpowered, Hallowed Eddie was bad but not unmanageable.

Banished
11-29-2018, 09:27 AM
Really disapointed to changes made to Hallowed, Alchemist and Magus Lilith.

NF is preparing Christmas sacrifice event with wsickerdeer changes. 3600 for sacrifice. Very nice.

scott-5496
11-29-2018, 10:15 AM
It had to happen - the team will monitor what is being used, how often it is used etc so it makes sense that the current meta gets hit hard - kind of a shame to nerf. Like many others I prefer counters being used....saying that Hallowed and Alchemist needed to be taking down a peg or two as it was getting very boring at the top end.

The sac event is going to be a monster by the looks of it. I have only just managed to get to half what my gold was prior to the pumpkin event so I wont be able to hit this one as hard - shame! Still that looks like a winner for everyone which is cool to see.

Not got Krampus or Coalgiver so my hopes are that they will be attainable in some way via one of the many events we are likely to get over the festive period. I kind of hope there is a xmas themed dungeon for us all to do!

Great additions to the FC shop - not got any avenger tallies so defo getting those! Not got loads of FC but it is building......events may add to that too I hope.

Agree with others that Carriage Rider needs a spruce up - but then so do a few others and I am sure that will come next year.

Stormseye
11-29-2018, 01:53 PM
It was due for a change to HE/Magus. Magus especially was long overdue for a nerf on that extra turn. Alchemist still will cleanse on basic attacks which keeps his value. The change to his fury is much more in line so either he will cleanse with basic or use fury which should be good for the AI in a much less dominating format. PoM is already on the resurge in the top end anyway.

Negative effect casters will once again be dominating. Better grab some Angel Talismans in Gauntlet if you donít have them.

Doomday nerf feels a bit unwarranted.

Excited to see more benefit from Krampus. His extra turn chance was already quite high at 20% for those of us who used him, now with 50% and curse he will be quite nasty.

Still no fix to the Physical Charge bug on Warlord Talismans I see.

I have been wanting to use Magus Snowman forever. I thought he was a great design. Repeal, for those that donít know, grants Immunity at start of battle for all allies for 1 turn and then grants Immunity to random ally every turn.

Dominance talismans look very interssting-looking at you Alexander.

Looks like a great update. Do we have a date expectation?

HuckFinn150
11-29-2018, 06:51 PM
He's based on Death on the Road, right? The scythe seems right to me. Did I miss something?

When I see the carriage riders, they always seem to be carrying blunder busts or shotguns. It's just my mental image of them. You didn't miss anything 😊

Daviangers
11-30-2018, 01:06 AM
All I can say is CHRISTMAS UPDATES YAAAY. Need more Coalgiver buffs tho. Cmon ;)

Zugzwang
11-30-2018, 01:21 AM
I love the nerfing of M Lilith and Hallowed Eddie. Great for Halloween time period but was overpowered for general use in the arena. This should change some teams up for sure.

Zugzwang
11-30-2018, 01:26 AM
They've been very tough on old HE I gotta say, but It's a good thing I think, one of my regular attack teams is HE Alchemist and M Lillith all of them nerfed to varying degrees. That's ok that team combination was getting very boring no matter how good they are.
Looks like POM will be very popular in the arena again! Not to mention the incoming Eternity Eddie.. interesting times to come!

POM Eddie has been my main Eddie in the Arena. Iím bored with him but I hate using HE. Thatís even worse. Will be nice to see some changes until the next ďstrongest teamsĒ are figured out and thatís all we ever see.

scott-5496
11-30-2018, 11:09 AM
They have to do this from time to time - reset the meta. I don't think the changes will neuter HE that much, not really the Alchemist - sure they are nerfs but it could have been worse for the characters. It should alter the top of the arena boards for sure. I have not been using HE in my defence - stuck with Benjamin Breeg and he is doing fine enough.


I just wonder if they would ever consider making each arena rotation have different team rules like the waves of gauntlet - just to change it up for us all. So have a Gunner/Assassin/Warrior/Magus/Sentinel week rotation. Or a natural 1/2/3/4/5 star week - it would at least shake it up and surely it is quite easy to implement like they have done on gauntlet. There may be less need then for OP characters getting hit with nerfs after a month or two.


Probably too much to ask as I think the team is so small that they really just do not have the staff to look at many things at the same time. They have probably all had to do overtime on the set up for the xmas events and of course getting Night City live.

xxxphantomfreakxxx
11-30-2018, 03:07 PM
I'm a long time player of Hallowed
And at first I was beyond pissed they were seriously messing with him so soon after he got some serious upgrades...but after calming down and taking a seriously long look at just what they're messing with

And I've concluded as someone that knows all he's in's and out's, and how best to get the most out of him, the nerf isn't really going to change a whole lot with Hallowed

Just set him up just right, max his skills out and get to where you know how best to use him and he'll still be a right pain in the ass

Now sure...I would've liked that they left him alone, because as he was he was a good answer to those cookie cutter teams all using the same powerhouse characters...and gave hope to those that didn't have any of those characters a fighting chance of holding their own

Killer-Frost
11-30-2018, 04:29 PM
It's just nerf city with this update. I may benefit from hallowed being buffed, but what's messed up is that I always used him for his extend beneficials on his team, even before his buff. Now, he's more or less rather useless. Sadly. About time they buffed eternity Eddie. The only thing I'll surely miss is my overpowered alchemist. Changing invincibility to damage reduction, well it's not totally bad, but I sure am gonna miss that. The cleanse was useful too for his fury. All i can say is i hope he can still convert silver effects into beneficial effects.

Please consider buffing the following Eddies: Grim Reaper Eddie, Carrige Rider Eddie, Mummy Eddie, Navigator Eddie, Pharaoh Eddie (In order from most needed to least needed)

Allies I'm for the most part ok with, but I would love to see Assassin and Warrior children of the damned back in meta. Sadly their dominance is not what it use to be

TheAlbatross-1864
11-30-2018, 05:37 PM
I'm loving all the changes here. As a user of M lilith and the alchemist I am actually glad to see they are being nerfed some. If anything this will help in the gauntlet where those two character are on what feels like half of the teams in the higher grades.

It feels to me that golden effects rule the pvp scene right now, and if you dont have a way to block or remove them it can be a painful battle, especially in the gauntlet where your golden effect removers start to run out over the battles. Can we get some more eddies that remove golden effects? I was thinking for starters maybe adding golden effect removal to Shaman Eddies "Rending Split" and Seventh Son Eddies "Vanquish" or "Demise". Happy to see Eternity Eddie getting buffed, although I still dont have him yet

On the other hand, blue effects have gotten so easy to remove, or at least thats how feels to me. So I am happy to see the talisman sets granting some passives in case you lose your effects in the first turn or so of battle

Edit - I would be totally for an Osiris nerf. on defense he is super annoying. IMO His revive on basic moves is far better than any other revive skill based solely on the high frequency of his revives in comparison to characters that have to use power or fury to revive. Maybe make it 1 revive per swing instead of pulling the whole team back from a basic move, or maybe mak eit a chance to revive each ally per instance of immunity? I mean immunity is so common these days I feel.

Stormseye
11-30-2018, 05:56 PM
I would be totally for an Osiris nerf. on defense he is super annoying. IMO His revive on basic moves is far better than any other revive skill based solely on the high frequency of his revives in comparison to characters that have to use power or fury to revive. Maybe make it 1 revive per swing instead of pulling the whole team back from a basic move, or maybe mak eit a chance to revive each ally per instance of immunity? I mean immunity is so common these days I feel.

Particularly nasty when you kill the DDE then Osiris revives him with a full Fury bar waiting to clean your clock.

rags-6094
11-30-2018, 05:58 PM
Enough with the nerfing gents! Leave Osiris the f... alone!

Mizrael
11-30-2018, 06:33 PM
Call it whatever! necessary, refreshing, good for shifting the meta...i call it BULLSHIT!
The NF idioticirrationalnerfbat is back.
First you buff HE and then nerf him in the consecutive update?! a BIT pathetic, donít you find? Do you guys really not have an internal server, where you could test things before releasing them?! i donít care about him much. never use him and i can beat him. itís about the principles...

MLilith: How long has she been around? and youíve just noticed? who gave her 50% to start with?! (surely the same person who created the original primordial set-giving shroud to the whole party alongside the eclipse set-giving shroud to 1 character) and itís not like she is a super damage dealer who could put down a whole team with her extra turns. for me it was more about spreading exhaust on more characters. she still remains a good character even though i would find 35 more in place than a drastic 20.


DDEs fury? absolutely unnecessary nerf! no comment on that.

Strangely Horuses 30% stun (which seems to work more like 90% on defense) went untouched?! this should be nerfed to around 12% to make it on par with the other nerfs! but no. heís fine...
Or Osiris mentioned above?!

So much effort wasted on snowmen and deers instead of focusing on toons which really need some tlc. but i guess that was necessary to make some xmass dungeon challenging...and at least youíve made Zerynx happy ;)

Overall i find it cruel to strike the nerf bat again exactly on xmass time (youíve been doing so well without it for a while), which should be full of generosity and kindness. shame on you! the person calling the shots on these tunings should follow in SSDpartons footsteps and just....perish?!

Tim28213
11-30-2018, 06:56 PM
Osiris' revive is based on immunity buffs on the opposing team. He doesn't automatically revive every time. It really isn't that bad to get around. If you see him on the opposing team either kill him first or plan your immunity buffs carefully.

bizon
11-30-2018, 07:43 PM
I do not have many strong characters, so HE was what let me hope to beat the team with the osiris

Amarthir
11-30-2018, 08:12 PM
I have a tiny suggestion that I think everyone will enjoy.

Can we have a number in the relic shop that tells us the level of our relics? For example on the Global Health relic I'm at 5/10, it would be nice to see the 5/10 on that relic in the shop, and so on with the others.

rags-6094
11-30-2018, 09:07 PM
I have a tiny suggestion that I think everyone will enjoy.

Can we have a number in the relic shop that tells us the level of our relics? For example on the Global Health relic I'm at 5/10, it would be nice to see the 5/10 on that relic in the shop, and so on with the others.

That is a good idea! For that very reason I keep a google sheets relics levels and once a week I update it.
Of course once you have 10 in each one the relic will disappear so you'll know you're finished with that one..
I've finished all globals and gunners thus far...

TheAlbatross-1864
11-30-2018, 10:10 PM
Osiris' revive is based on immunity buffs on the opposing team. He doesn't automatically revive every time. It really isn't that bad to get around. If you see him on the opposing team either kill him first or plan your immunity buffs carefully.

Iím well aware, but my issue is that at least when I face him, I have to either permadeath everyone or kill him first because almost without fail iíll have immunity on everyone and the whole enemy team gets revived per swing of osiris. Not to mention i see many with counterstrike talismans to aid in the revives even out of turn. I mean yea i could just not use immunity but honestly all the negative effects are worse if they lead to my characters dying from things like whole team stuns or corruptions blocking my beneficial effects. On top of that he turns blue effects into gold.

In the arena he isnt really all that annoying but i get to reuse my offense. Really its the guantlet where he is making things more difficult for me as I work my roster down

Muzzleloader
11-30-2018, 10:46 PM
The angel talisman help against him since they cant be stolen or used against you. You can try and use an angel set on a cleanser to remove the stun. Hellraiser can be a counter if needed

Angel on warrior death dog can also be a counter, his power move can give cleanse and immunity along with permadeath the enemy.

Stormseye
11-30-2018, 11:50 PM
I saw a good post on the FB groups regarding the changes to Hallowed and how they are not as severe as most people are envisioning. I think he will still be pretty popular in the Arena.

Alchemist losing cleanse on Strange Alchemy again not a huge loss. Transmutation loss of Invincibility for Damage Reduction Shield will not result in a broken ally, as these seemed to be more abused by the defense AI than actual players. He will still cleanse on basic attack and that is what I use him for anyway plus Last Rites for heals.


MLilith: How long has she been around? and you’ve just noticed? who gave her 50% to start with?! (surely the same person who created the original primordial set-giving shroud to the whole party alongside the eclipse set-giving shroud to 1 character) and it’s not like she is a super damage dealer who could put down a whole team with her extra turns. for me it was more about spreading exhaust on more characters. she still remains a good character even though i would find 35 more in place than a drastic 20.

The complaint for Magus Lillith and her over tuned extra turns has been in place for many, many months. Though she may not wipe an entire party (actually I have killed 3/4 of party after a big damage blast from DDE) she always tends to target just the right ally and with a permadeath and any damage boost in place, 4 swings at 10k a swing, will kill most allies. How many times has the Magus swung just enough times to max the fury for Eddie/Ally to use the Fury?

I have to agree on the DDE change, as it seemed unwarranted and I have not seen a single complaint on these forums for it.

There is a long list of tuning changes that need be addressed but I think the reason for these is directly related to the current Arena state and subsequent Guantlet field. It seems that the two are related and an immediate change was initiated to help diversify both game aspects.

Osiris revives without fail, Horus stuns without fail but how many of those do you see in the Arena compared to Hallowed Eddie, Magus Lillith and Alchemist? The largest complaint from the community is what is being addressed. More than character tuning, has been the request for new content. All focus has gone on that for the last month but the issues with those three characters could not be ignored entirely. So the update includes an easy fix (ie Lowering some numbers on some existing characters and making small ability changes, adding some new stuff in the way of relics and store changes, and upgrading some random Eddie/Ally). Everything else has been pushed for the new content and the next month's events.

I am not saying you don't have a legitimate complaint but the resources can only be utilized to a certain extent every month.

Ancient Mariner
12-01-2018, 12:02 AM
I have a tiny suggestion that I think everyone will enjoy.

Can we have a number in the relic shop that tells us the level of our relics? For example on the Global Health relic I'm at 5/10, it would be nice to see the 5/10 on that relic in the shop, and so on with the others.

Yeah I've noticed this lack as well, I agree

Daviangers
12-01-2018, 06:15 AM
Meanwhile im just happy my Breeg team is gonna be even more dominating 😁
As for Osiris I think he could use either an hp nerf or remove the attack bonus...really the problem is I think most of these characters would be more balanced but relics screw everything up

osiris0000
12-01-2018, 08:56 AM
I think Osiris is quite fine. Let them be gods people :cool:

Another note is Aset deserves a buff with fury in my opinion. While Clairvoyant can revive all allies and do damage with fury, Aset's fury just revives and heals. I find that skill really underwhelming for being a goddess fury.

Daviangers
12-01-2018, 12:26 PM
Sounds like they just need to add a simple damage to it like theyve done other skills. Although Asets just kind of weak in general (Like Set...Set and Aset lol)

druid138
12-02-2018, 06:09 AM
Another note is Aset deserves a buff with fury in my opinion. While Clairvoyant can revive all allies and do damage with fury, Aset's fury just revives and heals. I find that skill really underwhelming for being a goddess fury.

I couldn't agree more!

Ancient Mariner
12-02-2018, 11:25 AM
I couldn't agree more!
same here, +1

URock
12-02-2018, 02:16 PM
Is the update live?

Shaolin85london
12-02-2018, 03:25 PM
Is the update live? no yet, it ll def go live early week

Olevipoeg
12-02-2018, 07:09 PM
It have a suggestion, add talisman set to game which silences my own character permanently ( red or green or both for example). It would be very good tool to prevent unwanted castings and fury uses in auto mode.

GrimDusk
12-02-2018, 09:26 PM
I guess no one saw this little change, but the Gemini Twins are being added to exclusively Heroic Souls? Wtf, does that mean that any character can eventually just pulled from regular souls and shoved into the Heroic Soul rotation? That's a scary thought for sure.

Muzzleloader
12-02-2018, 09:49 PM
That's just another way to water done the pool. The more you add to the rotation the more worthless a soul becomes, that way they can give heroic soul frags with little hope of pulling a good toon.

Mizrael
12-03-2018, 04:43 PM
I guess no one saw this little change, but the Gemini Twins are being added to exclusively Heroic Souls? Wtf, does that mean that any character can eventually just pulled from regular souls and shoved into the Heroic Soul rotation? That's a scary thought for sure.

The Geminy Twins are not in regular souls. Itís just that the ďrarerĒ event exclusive characters do reappear after some time in the heroic souls. fe.Geminy Twins,Redan, Musashi,aso.

I think itís better than if they would just add them into the huge pool of normal characters...

HuckFinn150
12-03-2018, 04:53 PM
Has anyone noticed the new high end Eddie's and tons that are now rare souls? Phantom, Crusader and others are now a rare soul

Ip4
12-03-2018, 05:30 PM
Has anyone noticed the new high end Eddie's and tons that are now rare souls? Phantom, Crusader and others are now a rare soul

they are always there...

Mizrael
12-03-2018, 05:45 PM
LOL! guys...i think we all ought to smoke a bit less! we start seeing things...

Ip4
12-03-2018, 07:00 PM
finally will stop seeing this boring defences in PVP:HE,Alchenist,M.Lilith and Sekhmet...

Shaolin85london
12-03-2018, 09:04 PM
finally will stop seeing this boring defences in PVP:HE,Alchenist,M.Lilith and Sekhmet...

Lost 5 times against Gremlin.

5 different powerful teams annihilated

Pretty much he went first 4/5

Summarizing: HE perform basic stun, repeat, repeat, alchemist, 4x magus Lilith trigger, Sekmeth Fury, repeat...

This is fucking ridiculous!

5th I went first, ofc m Lilith casted invincibility so I could not do nothing about, HE perform power disable passive, alchemist, m Lilith 5 hit times Sekmeth Fury.. Repeat

Fuck this Totally bugged and out of control team, can't wait for the nerf!

Stormseye
12-03-2018, 09:58 PM
Lost 5 times against Gremlin.

5 different powerful teams annihilated

Pretty much he went first 4/5

Summarizing: HE perform basic stun, repeat, repeat, alchemist, 4x magus Lilith trigger, Sekmeth Fury, repeat...

This is fucking ridiculous!

5th I went first, ofc m Lilith casted invincibility so I could not do nothing about, HE perform power disable passive, alchemist, m Lilith 5 hit times Sekmeth Fury.. Repeat

Fuck this Totally bugged and out of control team, can't wait for the nerf!


Just think about all the players that don't have your relics or roster and still have to compete against this build. Went 1-4 today against the same build different player. Does not matter whether I go first or not the result is always the same. The Magus Lillith is the still biggest issue for me.

Blade
12-03-2018, 11:29 PM
Extra rounds & relics!
The scaling of the Fury is not designed for the new features of the game. Do you still remember the times without Relics and even without Guard Shields? Fury used to be a rare thing!
The nerf to M Lilith and the changed counting of accuracy UP is definitely important, but is that really enough? I would be open to a general adjustment of the Fury scaling.

druid138
12-04-2018, 02:36 AM
The scaling of the Fury is not designed for the new features of the game. Do you still remember the times without Relics and even without Guard Shields? Fury used to be a rare thing!

I think you are exactly right, Blade!

Stormseye
12-04-2018, 05:02 AM
Fury became an issue with the rise of Iron Eddie and Guard talismans. Coupled at the same time with the release of Primordials. Fury became a huge factor in how we play the Arena now. One of my three attack builds is based entirely on getting Fury.

Muzzleloader
12-04-2018, 05:24 AM
With the addition of relics, the top arena players can have a fury each round especially if they have gunner toons. That may be why they nerfed DDE. Since they nerfed DDE I was surprised they didn't go after PoMs fury.

This is why I suggested a toon that specifically blocks a single toons fury like disable passive works. This would be a counter against fury, but would not block all opponents fury. It would not be silence and would still allow power moves.

rags-6094
12-04-2018, 05:51 AM
But there are already and have been for a long time talisman that will steal fury, characters of recent times that can steal or zero the opponents fury, I just figured people don't use them much because they come at the expense of Angel Talisman or something more favourable?

Cefiar
12-04-2018, 06:20 AM
Stealing fury only helps if they haven't max'ed it out. Once the fury meter is full, you can't steal from it anymore.

trooper206
12-04-2018, 09:43 AM
So glad for the nerfing of the 3 characters that rule the extra boring defense teams in the arena, bugging us over gauntlet, but at the same time sad, because HE is one of my favorite Eddies in the game (music related).
Nerfing of the Magus Lilith is a key IF it works the way it is supposed to, as I am certain the well known defense teams will continue to be there.
Guys ok, I mean...Don't start asking NF to nerf every character in the game... At least we should allow some creative thinking and some strategy to be created.
Good to see Eternity Eddie getting some boost, and the fun characters like deers and snowmen getting some essence value, which may mean we will get some candy for sacrifice :).

Blade
12-04-2018, 10:16 AM
Fury became an issue with the rise of Iron Eddie and Guard talismans. Coupled at the same time with the release of Primordials. Fury became a huge factor in how we play the Arena now. One of my three attack builds is based entirely on getting Fury.

Thanks for adding this! I also wanted to include Iron Eddie, but I think this was a different story as his fury made it possible to be refilled every round BUT Guard Shield and/or several Gunner Talis were needed to fill the Fury in the first place.
I also appreciate your last sentence, because it is about strategy! Yes, strategy! This game was about strategy, combinations, counters and synergies once before.
And we can add angle Talisman to the list of things that mess up with the fury generation. I think the average number of gunner Talis per PvP team as increased significantly in 2018 compared to everything before. 5 is somewhat the minimum, up to 11 is found regularly.

@muzzle: yes, I remember your post about that ability! A very good idea, but as cleanse is so wide spread currently it would not really help I fear

@rags: have you tried to go with 1 or 2 thief sets against "the" current teams? Would be interesting to see...maybe I will play around against my own defense. Still I think the amount of fury generated with each action (including the extra turns) per round will be more than what you can remove by thief, but that's just a guessing.

Back to the tuning: I think the nerf migh be not strong enough but maybe it is planned to go in 2 or 3 steps because we all can agree that it should not be the normal case that one update turns the table completely, right?
The new Talis in the shop will bring some more fairness, which is fine. Of course there are a lot of characters that should see some buffs, so there is a lot of options in the future. But now it is all about Night City and some really nice and rewarding christmas events!
Last thought: In general I am missing some work on the still not correctly working mechanics with counter Talisman and most of the shields! I think this should have quite some proirity for 2019 as it is there for some longer time now and it is a real flaw deep in the game mechanic that should be addressed! Also a couple of other bugs might be related to this.

Mizrael
12-04-2018, 10:41 AM
The fury (plus all those extra turn characters) is not only an issue of PVP.

It could also have a serious impact on PVM once Silent Planet comes around...
I have built a team for BNW&LoL (since it requires 4 characters), which gets an ďendless extra turnĒ making the dragon king just a stationary punching bag.
that is imo a cardinal sin in any rpg!
So, theoretically, you could whizz through 100 lvls of SP not even having to care what your enemies are with this team...

URock
12-04-2018, 07:44 PM
Update is on Google Play Store. New Splash screen says: NAVIGATOR GAMES ???

Lord Schmeb
12-04-2018, 07:48 PM
Update is on Google Play Store. New Splash screen says: NAVIGATOR GAMES ???

Ice. That means Apple should be available in two or three days! Hooray!

zamasu
12-04-2018, 07:54 PM
I would say they created Navigator Games to separate LOTB income from nodding frog and make it it's own business.

A quick google search brings up the Linkedin page which was created about a month ago and they also have a picture of the team, they all seem to be metalheads lol
nice team though!

https://www.linkedin.com/company/navigator-games-ltd

scott-5496
12-05-2018, 10:10 AM
Nodding Frog were also needing to upload their accounts in the UK - so I wonder if that is linked in any way to the name change. I must remember to take a look.

Blade
12-05-2018, 11:11 AM
The nerfs to M Lilith and HE are definitely clearly felt. At least as an attacker, since our accuracy (as we know, golden secret rule) is about 15% lower than that of the defense. This is all the more noticeable in M Liliths extra turns and HE's passive disable now. A bit sad, although it is clear that a nerf was generally important and right.

Blade
12-05-2018, 11:22 AM
Another small thing I have just seen in the Book of Souls: the 2 checkboxes (use 10 / use all) and the price in gold have moved a bit crazy. The gold symbol is now on the top of Eddies head :)

scott-5496
12-05-2018, 11:29 AM
Some of those new tallies look nice - so much new stuff to splurge on once we get some Night City currency going...!

ill
12-05-2018, 03:56 PM
Was part of the tuning to reduce gauntlet diversity? 3 of 4 of my SS runs are against Hallowed, Alchemist, M Lilith and Prisoner.

Stormseye
12-05-2018, 04:18 PM
Was part of the tuning to reduce gauntlet diversity? 3 of 4 of my SS runs are against Hallowed, Alchemist, M Lilith and Prisoner.

The Arena and the Gauntlet are linked so though it may have not been the deciding factor in the tuning it certainly was a contributing factor. Expect less SSS runs of 6/8 HE builds in the coming weeks.

The Educated fool
12-05-2018, 06:22 PM
There has never been a necessary nerf in the history of this game, and the ones that come when no one is even complaining about the character (as with Doomsday) are especially egregious. I will never understand players who call to make characters weaker when the option to make others stronger will always exist, but I suppose that's what I get for injecting logic into things. :cool: The meta will always shift, in this game, when new characters come... and new characters come ALL THE TIME! lol Nerfs are therefore completely unnecessary. My two cents... spend 'em any way you want.

blade685
12-06-2018, 12:56 AM
There has never been a necessary nerf in the history of this game, and the ones that come when no one is even complaining about the character (as with Doomsday) are especially egregious. I will never understand players who call to make characters weaker when the option to make others stronger will always exist, but I suppose that's what I get for injecting logic into things. :cool: The meta will always shift, in this game, when new characters come... and new characters come ALL THE TIME! lol Nerfs are therefore completely unnecessary. My two cents... spend 'em any way you want.

agree with that nerf are useless and boring many players, i must change all my attack and def team that are shitty now cool update ^^

Mizrael
12-06-2018, 07:28 AM
Some of those new tallies look nice...

Yeah. one in particular made me chuckle: Ruin talisman (Ward)...so contradicting! OK, could be good for true damage dealers, but i still find it a bit discriminating for magic damage characters. besides-the icon in the ďset effectsĒ displays a shell talisman icon.

Another bug from the top of my head:
Talismans canít be sold from the satellite screen (not sure about the rewards chest). it shows price of 300 000 and canít be clicked.

Teams still copy each other from arena/cosmos/skull quests!

At least the bookmarks in skull quests appear now when ďnextĒ is clicked, so thatís a step forwards...