DOOM-PERFECT DEATH-PERMADEATH & SOUL PROTECT/GHOST The truth and the BS!

[rags-6094]

Where to start... I have written to support on a number of occasions about the issues with these particular effects. Call them what you will but they do not work as described, once upon a time they did, or at least Doom did anyway..
I thought if I could start a thread where we could discuss what has happened to you in arena, Gauntlet or otherwise, what did not work as it should? Is there a set of common rules the AI plays by that wrong or right we can all learn and hopefully use to our advantage.

At least that way if these issues continue to fall on deaf ears we can use to our advantage.

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[rags-6094]

Doom is a great example here, I just faced a team in Arena consisting of BBE, Osiris, The Clairvoyant and Sekhmet. Three revivers...

I'll spare you the long story but my Alchemist Doomed Sekhmet and Osiris, BBE was already dead (not doomed) I was playing the game out on purpose so it went a fair bit longer than it needed to.
I let Clair's fury go off, she revived the whole team, so you see it is not just limited to Osiris that has the power to overcome doom.
We should remember that doom says "if it times out" not "if marked by at any time" so does this mean that even when marked by doom if the character is killed before the doom timer has gone off that technically the doom did not play out its roll so the character should be able to be revived!

Only if the doom timer has elapsed will the character die and not be available for reviving. I'm still confident it does not occur the way it's designed.

Funny that it says cannot be cleansed or transferred still when Alchemist amongst a big list of characters cleanes it regularly and Crusaders basic Liberation can transfer it...

What's your experience?

[Esquatcho]

Thats interesting, Ive not had to use doom that often against enemies so cant give too much guidance, but I will keep an eye on it certainly.

As a user of Hallowed Eddie though, pefect death seems to work as advertised (apart from being removed)

On that:'cannot be transferred or removed' that sits on many yellow/silver effects, but clearly they can since the writeups were done. Im guessing that there might need to be a job at some stage to go through and rewrite them as 'more difficult to remove' realistically.

[rags-6094]

Well thanks It seems I'm the only person that has seen real issues with these negative buffs, or is the rest of the world still asleep?
There was a time when permadeth worked then it didn't work, but lately with KP at least it does seem to be doing at least part of what was intended.

How is it then that Icarus cannot seem to inherit soul protect or be it ghost at the time but FFE can?

Alchemist has no problems removing the gold ghost icon from his enemies and replacing it with a silver buff sealing their fate!
I have placed perfect death in with the others as they all share similar rules, it is likely that perfect death is working correctly, hopefully if this thread works as intended we shall all know what works and what doesn't .

[HK-47]

I doomed an Icarus in the Gauntlet, no prizes for guessing what happened when I killed him

[Yup]

I've seen characters revive themselves 3 or 4 times with no active immortality buff.. and no revivers on the team..... 1 turn ago they MAY have had a Perfect immortality buff from Primordials, but that was removed before they died..... still they (alchemist) revived at least 2 more time.

One of those things you see and think "How the hell did that happen?? oh well, I must not have seen the buff." .. then it happens again... and again and you KNOW somethings weird.

[Esquatcho]

Yeah, like I said I dont always pay attention. I have definitely seen funny things happen though, both against and to my benefit, but usually its when its auto playing and there are numbers and buffs flying everywhere making it hard to pinpoint down.

[dragonmat89]

I've regularly seen a character with Doom and Immortality be killed by an attack before the Doom counter hits zero. The Immortality is cancelled and they don't auto resurrect BUT they can be resurrected by another character - it's almost like a half-permadeath unless the counter hits 0, then it's the same as permadeath. This seems to match what's been observed above.

[Stormseye]

I have not had an issue with Permadeath not working but Osiris has revived many a Doomed ally, multiple times even. I have had Benjamin Breeg do the same. For me it seems to only be on issue with Doom. Killer Prime’s permadeath seems to work just fine as tested against Charlotte’s power move and and her not being able to revive.

Perhaps the counter must activate in order for Doom to be effective. Any death prior to that will not result in permadeath.

Not sure but it does seem a bit off in its functionality.

[Liu]

I thought doom has a clear if-then-else statement: If duration reaches 0, then this character dies and cannot be revived, else - nothing. The effect only applies if the condition is met. Should the character die before the timer has reached zero, the condition hasn't been met and the effect doesn't apply. Since other silver effects are removed upon death, I would assume the same to be true for doom.
No ?

[kgk56]

Once Doom have been applied, cleancers like M Lilith or Alchemist can remove... if they have the time because 1 smack from KP and the doomed one is roast

[dragonmat89]

I thought doom has a clear if-then-else statement: If duration reaches 0, then this character dies and cannot be revived, else - nothing. The effect only applies if the condition is met. Should the character die before the timer has reached zero, the condition hasn't been met and the effect doesn't apply. Since other silver effects are removed upon death, I would assume the same to be true for doom.
No ?

That would make sense, but if this was the case then it wouldn't prevent instant revival on a character that has Immortality and Doom and is killed before the timer hits 0...

[Natasmai]

I don't understand the confusion here. If you read the description of Doom it is clear as can be. IF AND ONLY IF the character is killed by doom, he cannot be revived. This debuff is entirely different than the perma/perfect death debuffs. Those just need to be on the toon when it dies. Doom has to KILL the toon for any effect. If not it can be revived in any manner.

Now as far as the cleansing of "cannot be removed" effects, Alchemist does not cleanse, he transforms. Apparently transform has a different set of rules that we have not been told about (this is speculation since no info has been released as far as i can tell). He both transforms opposing gold buffs into negative and also transforms negatives on his allies into positive buffs.

[Liu]

That would make sense, but if this was the case then it wouldn't prevent instant revival on a character that has Immortality and Doom and is killed before the timer hits 0...

Yes I would expect any doomed toon to auto-revive if immortality is present and the timer hasn't reach zero. I would've thought any revival effect would work on a doomed toon that died prematurely. Judging from your post this doesn't happen though ?

[Muzzleloader]

Any of the possibilities seem to occur. Immortalityl may revive a doomed character that the time hadn't reached zero. They can also be revived later by an allies abiliity.

I have seen characters die by doom, or killed with permadeath/perfect death and be revived by allies. Unless there are latent abilities by allies/passives/talisman that are not readily apparent there appears to be a bug.

I dont understand how angel talis keeps from deaths being applied to yourself since it is a cleanse talisman passive. You can stun a toon with angel if done correctly on offense turns. Opponents defense turn can stun but will be cleansed on your next offensive turn.

[rags-6094]

I am starting to think it's back to the drawing board... I suspect that if put to the test I let a character get doom and die by doom count down, that there isn't a reviver that can bring them back.
I wonder is it just possible that a percentage of misunderstanding or assumption has slipped into my perspective where doom has been in play?
Perhaps a few of us have had the same perception? This would explain why Devs have not answered my requests and why no one has responded on the forums over the years regarding the perceived issue, because there isn't an issue?

I think I'll do some testing, I have seen the AI do some strange things to notch up a win!

[scott-5496]

As far as I can tell doom only ends a character fully if the ticker runs down. If killed before then you can revive them. Permadeath is different to doom but must check how - I dont think they come back!?

[Saigrim]

Don't worry guys, there'll soon be a new character or talisman released with an ability more powerful than all the aforementioned abilities, therefor making the issue even more convoluted than it is already.

I am personally waiting for the obliviate skill, where your character is completely wiped from your roster.

[Yup]

M Lilith doesn't clear silver buffs, including Doom. And Doom is SUPPOSED to be like permadeath or perfect death, preventing characters form reviving if the buff is there, even if it doesn't actually kill the character. At least that's how it's always worked in the past.

[Maiden68]

Don't worry guys, there'll soon be a new character or talisman released with an ability more powerful than all the aforementioned abilities, therefor making the issue even more convoluted than it is already.

I am personally waiting for the obliviate skill, where your character is completely wiped from your roster.

That will bring a whole new Meaning to the Word...."Perma-Death"!!! And frankly that's a Game changer, I'm sure is Not Built into this game Mechanic (as yet)!!!
Of course if I'm wrong.... They need to make a new level for the game...