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Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 07:14 PM
This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?11506-March-2019-Tuning-PRELIMINARY&p=94144#post94144).

Zantarath
02-28-2019, 07:29 PM
is Labyrinth talisman serious?
this is basically stronger version of shroud if it does the same thing as what assassin banshee does
but its even stronger because its 75% chance and because it cant be removed
i think with this i can solo all content with just beast eddie
in all of honestly the 75% to not take damage dont even need to be there because this effect cannot be disabled
ofcourse this isnt a problem since everyone will get it and we gonna have 15 minute long pvp matches

I bet Rags is gonna say this is perfectly fine again and he has no issue killing this
(via doom? Ghost?)

infinite dreamer
02-28-2019, 07:35 PM
Eternals on Pharaoh could be good. And he got some pretty good upgrades. Labyrinth talismans? Sounds like battles will take a bit longer.

Fudjo
02-28-2019, 07:42 PM
I strongly recommend that you fix Duelist, the Past Basic ability for Eternity Eddie. It's a zero-cost ability which grants an extra turn, meaning you can use it to fill up your Fury to max every turn. Combined with Clansman Eddie's Fury ability, this can be done in an infinite loop.

Viking Eddie's ability Call to Arms was fixed for the exact same reason.

Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 07:46 PM
I strongly recommend that you fix Duelist, the Past Basic ability for Eternity Eddie. It's a zero-cost ability which grants an extra turn, meaning you can use it to fill up your Fury to max every turn. Combined with Clansman Eddie's Fury ability, this can be done in an infinite loop.

Viking Eddie's ability Call to Arms was fixed for the exact same reason.

Thanks for mentioning it. We do have a fix scheduled for this coming up soon.

-Kaz

Amarthir
02-28-2019, 07:49 PM
Labyrinth talismans are gonna make Set a more useful blocker. Doesn't necessarily mean they ought to be the way they are currently. They sound more useful than eclipse Talismans when Eclipse should be better.

Adjusting soul fragments, really? Why? And also, why fix something that isn't insanely broken when you should really look at making us claim multiple souls.

But hey looks like Pharaoh Eddie is gonna be.....better.

Zantarath
02-28-2019, 07:58 PM
Labyrinth talismans are gonna make Set a more useful blocker. Doesn't necessarily mean they ought to be the way they are currently. They sound more useful than eclipse Talismans when Eclipse should be better.

Adjusting soul fragments, really? Why? And also, why fix something that isn't insanely broken when you should really look at making us claim multiple souls.

But hey looks like Pharaoh Eddie is gonna be.....better.

so 75% chance to hot take damage is fine in thy book
ofcourse on a blocker its not too difficult you only need on average 40 hits to kill a Labyrinth talisman user, ofcourse i'm not taking taking into consideration of character's defence and resist

but say - a team with decent sustain and cleanse then the battle will be come a little hard
i would say the 75% chance to not take damage is not needed. it would still function like a better eclipse talisman without it

but ofcourse i wont mind it either way. i will get my self a set of this talisman and if its op i will laugh while wiping my floor with people who could not aquire it

zamasu
02-28-2019, 08:14 PM
Are the fragments required to claim souls being decreased or increased?

Amarthir
02-28-2019, 08:20 PM
Are the fragments required to claim souls being decreased or increased?

There's no way they're getting decreased. With how many epic souls people had gotten during the last sac event they're probably gonna at the very least double the requirements.

edsel
02-28-2019, 08:23 PM
[QUOTE=Zantarath;94147]is Labyrinth talisman serious?
this is basically stronger version of shroud if it does the same thing as what assassin banshee does
Or make that did. Ass Banshee party is over now that 65% is gonna be 35% damage block. Guess my dupe will be heading to the shit can next sac event.

Great to see 5 set talismans arriving, can we please get more Cosmic talismans and evo materials? With a 1% chance at getting a T3, I would like to get a BUNCH more souls to open and try for some decent ones. 87% chance to get another 1 star T1 is just not gratifying for the effort to get one of these souls, and $70 for 2 Cosmic talismans is just not gonna happen here. Did anyone buy these?5317

zamasu
02-28-2019, 08:25 PM
There's no way they're getting decreased. With how many epic souls people had gotten during the last sac event they're probably gonna at the very least double the requirements.

I'm gonna have to claim my souls now then ...

zamasu
02-28-2019, 08:27 PM
@Kaz

At least we should get a warning before the changes in soul fragments happen. That way we can decide whether we want to claim our souls or not. that's only fair to us player. are the fragments required to claim a soul being increased? if so, by how much?

calizario
02-28-2019, 08:34 PM
ridiculous if they increase the cost to give a claim. For besides paying to rescue souls from fragments, you still have to pay to open souls ..

Stormseye
02-28-2019, 08:35 PM
Valor Talismans now granting Perfect Immunity the duration of the fight should see a rise in Hallowed/Sekemet builds again. Destiny Talismans getting a nerf makes Fortune that much better now. Assassin Banshee passive was 65% as many suspected. This will make an interesting shift again in the Arena.

I am curious to know if there is any intention of looking into the Prisoner Passive and how he works with Killer Prime. Even when cleansed or "transformed", there seems to be a latent effect from Disable Passive. This only happens with Prisoner's passive and only when combined with Killer Prime. I am sure many people are cringing at my mentioning it but the reality is if we want more diversity then we need to not have a "preferred defense" Currently the two most common defense setups in the top end are Assassin Banshee/Magus Lillith or Prisoner/Killer Prime. The Banshee/Lillith build will soon become less impenetrable but the Prisoner/Killer Prime setup is still way over powered. Even if you use the same attack team, the AI is still considerably stronger and often will not suffer the same negative effects as the attacking team even if all the talismans and allies are the same.

Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 08:50 PM
@Kaz

At least we should get a warning before the changes in soul fragments happen. That way we can decide whether we want to claim our souls or not. that's only fair to us player. are the fragments required to claim a soul being increased? if so, by how much?

They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.

-Kaz

Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 08:54 PM
I am curious to know if there is any intention of looking into the Prisoner Passive

There is some work planned for that once we're around to the Arena 2.0 Updates, yes. Passive disable still has some fundamental code issues that seems to always lead to knockons when attempting to fix any given problem with it, so it's one of those skills that will take longer to fix, unfortunately.

-Kaz

zamasu
02-28-2019, 08:59 PM
They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.

-Kaz

Thank you.

One more question, How about Legendaries, Mythical and Epic? are they staying the same?

Amarthir
02-28-2019, 09:03 PM
They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.

-Kaz

So, what you're saying is it'll only take a couple more souls to claim another soul from fragments? As long as it's not a huge jump I'll be able to live with it

zamasu
02-28-2019, 09:09 PM
So, what you're saying is it'll only take a couple more souls to claim another soul from fragments? As long as it's not a huge jump I'll be able to live with it

Well kind of ... Rare souls right now cost 25 to claim. let's say you hoarded 3000 fragments. your stack will go from 120 to 60 .... with the update. So, it will make sense to claim your souls now so you don't lose half of your stack

Amarthir
02-28-2019, 09:23 PM
Well kind of ... Rare souls right now cost 25 to claim. let's say you hoarded 3000 fragments. your stack will go from 120 to 60 .... with the update. So, it will make sense to claim your souls now so you don't lose half of your stack

Makes sense. I went ahead and claimed everything I had including 7 mythical souls and over two hundred heroic souls so I'll be good to go here. If they don't change things with epic souls then I'll consider the changes to be inconsequential

Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 10:07 PM
Thank you.

One more question, How about Legendaries, Mythical and Epic? are they staying the same?

Only the normal Legendary Soul is getting an increase. All other souls and soul types will remain the same.

-Kaz

slauki
02-28-2019, 10:20 PM
it would be great, if we could see the talisman setups on the enemies in gauntlet before entering the battle. as time goes by and more strong talismans are released this will become really necessary imo. otherwise it's just a gamble, since we cannot estimate the real strength of the opponent.

The Emperor
02-28-2019, 10:50 PM
About that increased Fragments needed, will Precious Souls and normal heroic Soul be affected? I hope not, because i like storing mine, could i please get an answer to that?

Kaz_LOTB
02-28-2019, 11:27 PM
it would be great, if we could see the talisman setups on the enemies in gauntlet before entering the battle.

We are working on some improvements to better communicate the strength of the enemy teams in gauntlet. Not sure if it will include going as far as to show the enemy's talisman setup (as there are some inherent issues with doing that in the gauntlet as it stands), but there are some other ideas in the works which should hopefully help. Also, at the very least everyone should be able to see what Talismans they have equipped to their own characters easier without having to go to the my team screen or remember the stats on each one individually, etc.


About that increased Fragments needed, will Precious Souls and normal heroic Soul be affected? I hope not, because i like storing mine, could i please get an answer to that?

Heroic Souls and Precious Souls will remain unchanged, as will any previous Event Soul Fragments.

-Kaz

GotN
03-01-2019, 01:28 AM
We are working on some improvements to better communicate the strength of the enemy teams in gauntlet. Not sure if it will include going as far as to show the enemy's talisman setup (as there are some inherent issues with doing that in the gauntlet as it stands), but there are some other ideas in the works which should hopefully help. Also, at the very least everyone should be able to see what Talismans they have equipped to their own characters easier without having to go to the my team screen or remember the stats on each one individually, etc.



Heroic Souls and Precious Souls will remain unchanged, as will any previous Event Soul Fragments.

-Kaz

All very good news! Thank you very much Kaz! Much appreciated!

Esquatcho
03-01-2019, 04:38 AM
Thanks for the engagement Kaz!

Edit: So regular mythicals wont change?

bort
03-01-2019, 04:52 AM
I'd like a definitive list of the fragment values that are changing.

rare + class rare
legendary

Not changing:

epics, class epics
mythical, class mythical
heroic, legendary heroic, mythical heroic
precious, event specific (does this include alchemist, trooper, and eternity?)

Blade
03-01-2019, 08:48 AM
My thoughts about the update:

Shaman
He is such a poor guy, in my opinion one of the weakest Eddies of all. The increased scaling will help, as well as the new talis slot colors. Still I think he might need more adjustments to be a real 5 star. Maybe some completely new skills, at least some AoE attacks with multiple hits. So this change here can only be the first step I think. Gauntlet use only.

Pharaoh
He was very good in the early days (when I did not have him), but lost his usefulness over time. So a buff is well deserved and the changes will make him better, especially as he can now deal with perfect immunity and some other golden buffs. Still he won't be seen in the arena more often I guess but he will help more in the Gauntlet now.

A Banshee
Well that there was something wrong with her Passive was clear from the first fight we did with and especially against her. Forum posts were written very fast about this and I can't imagine that the devs only realised this yesterday. It is a bit smelly that there was no hotfix, but it was waited until she completely dominated the PvP meta and she was also in the pool of characters of the current final mega event, only to tell people now that she will be "nerfed" to the planned numbers. I am curious to see how she will perform after the change, she still might be helpful.

Talismans
Destiny: I even called them a game braker. And they were, maybe half a year ago. Of course the invisibility is still annoying and the very high trigger frequency of exactly this buff despite the large number of options was annoying. But in the meantime there are much more characters available that remove buffs, FFE seemed to be created as a very specific counter with his one ability specifically removing invisibility. So I would say the nerf is ok, but half a year too late.

Valor: getting PI on top is a good addition in my opinion. They get slightly better but not overpowered.

Present and Tomb look ok, nothing too special. Tomb will have some nice synergy with other characters that apply the needed debuffs

Labyrinth: there was already a lot of discussion here in the thread. They might be a problem and in particular result in longer fights. Nobody asked for longer fights. The additional debuffs make that set overpowered in my opinion. Good thing: as it is a 5 set, you cannot combine it with e.g. immunity. To me personally such heavy Talisman sets are not needed in the game at all as they override tactics and synergies between chars, their abilities and more "normal" Talis effects too easly. Nevertheless I can imagine that those that like to throw money are already slobbering.

Doom clarificaiton is nice, the forum already came to this conclusion how doom works when a char dies before doom triggered

Soul fragment "ADJUSTMENTS"
This is the most striking change. A terrible one. The communitcation about it was maybe as terrible as the change itself. "Adjust" gives no information about the direction of the change. But those of us players that are here for a while already knew that it would not be good for the players. It was nice that the devs answered player's questions. First, saying that "mainly" rare souls will be changed. Then more in detail. This was like putting a road sign at the highway, saying "slower", "even slower"... this was not Maiden-like! You could have given the details right away in the table of changes.

Also I do not really see the need for a change: the character pool for rare souls is increasing roughly every two weeks, so it is getting harder to get specific characters anyway. Plus the "adjusted" sacrifice rewards yield by far less rare souls than before. For sure the new sacrifice rewards and the frags that we get for opening regular souls are involved in this decision. But is it reasonable? One stack of 99 regulars usually gives rare souls fragments in a range that is normally not even enough for 1 rare soul...

Class specific rare soul fragments? The do not really exist, I think there was 1 event and 2 calendar gifts with them. I did not claim them for a year I think and I have 3-4 of each class in stock - wow. So maybe they will show up more often now. It could be that they drop in NC, but nobody that has finished this world plays it again. Increase gold rewards and reduce SoT costs and we can talk about that again.

Also I think it is a distinct slap in the face of us players that the changes to these fragments are done BEFORE there is the "claim all" button or a slider to claim souls more efficiently. "Thank" you for stealing my precious time as I have to click claim, wait for the animation to end, and then click OK 181 times to use my 4540 frags. Then the same with the other frag types that are planned to see that "adjustment".

MISSING:
Bug fixes! But as we know they are not always listed in the table before the update. So we can still hope to see some fixes. For instance the interference of couter talis and void/thorn etc shields is broken since ~more than a year.
Inventory management! This needs a revision since a long time, as characters and talis are released in an (in my opinion) unnecessary high frequency! It is good to hear that there are plans about the visualisation of talis effects in the screen where you select your team. But the inventory is a mess. I would love to see an inventory increase due to the new cosmic things and also some more love for organisation, look at this mess:
5324

Don't get me wrong, it is always nice to see our game being furher evolved and some of the changes are nice and fair. But with some changes, especially the Labyrinth talis and the fragment adjustments you've made very few friends.
Just my opinion! Up the Irons!

Inishmore
03-01-2019, 08:55 AM
My thoughts about the update:

Shaman
He is such a poor guy, in my opinion one of the weakest Eddies of all. The increased scaling will help, as well as the new talis slot colors. Still I think he might need more adjustments to be a real 5 star. Maybe some completely new skills, at least some AoE attacks with multiple hits. So this change here can only be the first step I think. Gauntlet use only.



I think one little change would already make him a 5-Star: His Rending Split-Move is removing all Shields and granting an extra turn if Shield is removed. Either make him remove also perfect (Heal) shields or make him also remove damage invulnerability and getting an extra turn. With that he could be an asset against certain setups. But as he is right now, even with the changes I fear he will remain an unused character.

Patrice-1201
03-01-2019, 09:02 AM
One more thing that I am a bit worried of with Skill changes on chars, usually when we have maxed these guys out and they change the skills, we loose all of our skill shards and have to re-invest, surely they should return those skill shards or apply them to the new skills...

@Kaz, what do you think?

Liu
03-01-2019, 09:09 AM
The labyrinth set is, sorry, ABSURD. Let's use the eclipse set as benchmark. Per hit, you'll receive 5% HP damage with eclipse, but 2.5% HP damage with labyrinth (in expectation). On Top of this labyrinth, with 25% chance when struck, inflicts debuffs on ALL of the opposing characters. Further, eclipse provides a buff that can be removed, while labyrinth is a passive. Let's top this of by acknowledging it a 5 set, so we can add a cosmic talisman which is probably stupendously powerful once maxed out. Guys seriously ? This ain't no power creep, this is a power rush.
The sentinel 5 set looks like equally bad news, I don't even want to think about that.

/e: It'd be nice if we, the players, could agree on not using these things ... I don't even want to think about what toons and talismans that are being released in a year from now are going to be capable of. 10% chance to permanently delete enemy toons from the opponent players roster ? The idea of introducing balanced stuff instead of game breaking stuff seems to be completely absent from the dev's minds.

Yup
03-01-2019, 09:41 AM
I would agree that these new talismans merely look like "fun killers" and annoyances for PvP.

And unfortunately there's not a whole lot of new playable content to make them worthwhile there.

I too feel the power creep is moving ahead way too fast with these proposed talismans. I mean do you REALLY think granting an entire team perfect health for the duration of a battle is anything other than unbalanced?

scott-5496
03-01-2019, 10:32 AM
I sense danger ahead! LOL. There seems to be some chat on here about the way the game is going and from these changes it seems that many of you are correct in this assumption. We are moving quickly to a game that seems to be chasing its own tail - going nowhere and we players are being taken along for that ride on a game I am sure we all kind of love and are addicted to for one reason or another.

I am really not sure where I am currently getting my fun from in lotb - probably my kids accounts as they are not near the top - there can be a lot of fun to be had down the bottom to middle of the game and real challenges to face.

An example from my game this morning - I played five arena matches and got my ass handed to me in all five - the first time this has ever happened to me. OK, I was mucking about with my attack teams I was using but I truly got destroyed in a round or two in each battle. I then took some of these on again and owned them just as quick with my destroyed attack team which had been my defence team. The game, at the moment, is, to me, a bit all over the place. Arena is toss of the coin random based in many battles and I dread to think what gauntlet will be like after this update.

I hope I am wrong and that this is not going to make the game so boring that you have no idea if you are ging to win or lose a battle. Maybe a lot of folk have these gold/cash relic boosters on the go (I dont) and maybe it was that and/or bad luck this morning, not sure but it is the first time since I started arena where I have been skelped so soundly with little chance to do anything much at all.

RNG is coming more into the game than ever as is coin toss. However, saying all that I do still enjoy playing on my kids accounts so maybe for new to mid level players what we have now is a chance for them to be a top player by spending and hitting events hard - my kids cant as they are at school but I can see how this must be pretty cool for newer folks as you just need a bit of luck in events, grind time and ironite and a wallet and you can be a top player in weeks to a few months.

Maybe I just got out the wrong side of bed of course!

Blade
03-01-2019, 10:34 AM
Further, eclipse provides a buff that can be removed, while labyrinth is a passive.

Good point and completely right! I wanted to mention that too but forgot it. Give the Labyrinth also a buff so that it can be removed and the problem would be reduced to a somewhat ok extent.

Blade
03-01-2019, 10:50 AM
I sense danger ahead! LOL. There seems to be some chat on here about the way the game is going and from these changes it seems that many of you are correct in this assumption. We are moving quickly to a game that seems to be chasing its own tail - going nowhere and we players are being taken along for that ride on a game I am sure we all kind of love and are addicted to for one reason or another.

I think this is mainly the case as we rather old farts are not that familiar with the implications that come with this being a mobile game. To be honest I thought at some point we would be done with new Talis and a final state would be reached. But this seems impossible. Same for extreme character abilities. Did you expect 2 years ago that there will be something like Killer Prime or the Ferryman? I did not.
So due to the needed evolution - and the selected high frequency of new stuff - things MUST become crazy I think. For me personally everything could be slowed down to let's say half of the frequency with which characters, Talis and other effects are released.
But mobile games are made especially for the young folks and due to the large selection of games they need to evolve rather quick as most of these folks lose the ability to be patient.

About your pvp issue...that is really crazy. Due to the current meta I only lose <1% of my battles. Only if all of a sudden my passives do not work (without disable passive being around), there is a real chance for the AI to win. There was a confirmed bug a while ago that made relics sometimes not work and temporal relics work for areas of the game where they should not apply, so maybe this problem is back?

slauki
03-01-2019, 12:34 PM
the problem is that the devs have to earn money for the company, so you have to make players chase things they want. since the game was pretty unbalanced for quite some time now i don't expect anything to change. if they release an middish/okayish toon/talisman who would care or spend because of it? people will only pay if you offer them things that will improve their strength. so the wheel will be spinning endlessly

i think the truth is that there is no way back, either you take it or you leave. the toons will get even stronger and talismans too. rlease an OP team and sell the players the counter after a few weeks. that seems to be the way to earn money in these games. (it's also the same in strike force btw) that said i do feel lotb is a bit out of control with all these crazy mechanics like avoiding damage or random nomal, silver and golden buffs/debuffs.

but i cannot see an escape there so we have to deal with it.

scott-5496
03-01-2019, 02:34 PM
the problem is that the devs have to earn money for the company, so you have to make players chase things they want. since the game was pretty unbalanced for quite some time now i don't expect anything to change. if they release an middish/okayish toon/talisman who would care or spend because of it? people will only pay if you offer them things that will improve their strength. so the wheel will be spinning endlessly

i think the truth is that there is no way back, either you take it or you leave. the toons will get even stronger and talismans too. rlease an OP team and sell the players the counter after a few weeks. that seems to be the way to earn money in these games. (it's also the same in strike force btw) that said i do feel lotb is a bit out of control with all these crazy mechanics like avoiding damage or random nomal, silver and golden buffs/debuffs.

but i cannot see an escape there so we have to deal with it.

Yeah that is for sure and I guess it all makes complete sense. They must make money to keep it all going and I also guess what right do we old timers have to be the best just bexcause we have done form the start - no reason at all. It's like in football - who were the like of Man City of PSG before they had the influx of massive cash to buy players - they were no one. Same sort of thing here - you can buy your way to the top if you want to and I guess we need that to happen too or the game makes no maney and no wages are paid or staff have to go.

Just now though it does seem like things like the arena and gauntlet are a fest of random stuff and a massive influx of teams that have been lucky in events over recent months.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 02:58 PM
Labrynth talisman is undoubtly- the most powerful set we haven seen
its a more powerful version of eclipse: for a number of reasons:
it is unremoveable
it has 75% chance to not take damage - which offset the 10% random damage taken compared to the eclipse
it takes random damage. which means defence and resist will reduce the overall damage taken

as this is a turn based game. introducing such mechanics like chance to not take damage really hurt the value of turns when players get them. if this is a ActionRole-Playing-Game this set could work as damage done is not determined by turns but by speed of attack which people could invest in, but having such a mechanic that is unremoveable is just absurd.

i have 3 different path of suggestions for how this talisman set can be adjusted

1: Keep current functions, but also add: Character cannot be healed
Comment: this is still very powerful. but players can kill this character eventually even tho it may still take 5 to 50 turns depending on RNG
-It become a set for character that needs to stay alive for at least the first couple turns, but usefulness falls off later on
-The negative effect it has still make it very useful while it lasts
Power-rating(9/10)- one of the powerful set every created

2: Remove the 75% chance to not take damage
Comment: This is what i would prefer - the value of actions made by a player have impact and the set still have strong defense abilities
-The damage taken can be offset by Def and Resist so 10% is not as bad as one would seem.
-Running synergy with fortune talisman or other forms of sustain can easily survive
-Especially good for taking pressure off blockers if running with blockers
-The negative effect it has still make it very useful while it lasts
Power-rating(9/10)- still the most powerful set, players can synthesizer better and have creative build options.

3: Remove thewhensuccessfuly sturk take 10% of hp as random damage
Explanation: Very Rng Based. I personally do not want such a mechanic in a turn based game. but if devs like this kind of things i have to consider-it
-really there is not much to say about this effect, if lucky it will take a while to kill it, but it could also randomly fail, either player gonna hate this or Ai gonna hate this.
Power-rating(8/10)- could fail very hard if not lucky, but if lucky all the universe cannot kill u

the Labyrinth set could- in its original form - lock a battle to the point of just spending long time to kill just a single toon ,and such a toon could be a part of a chain to keep a entire team alive. Especilly combined with fortune talisman and assassin banshee together to make a extremly long battle, nobody likes such long battles because its un-fun.

I think if this set is released in its original form. i will simply no play arena seriously anymore and just play gauntlet, sure a lone person would not seem to matter to the Devs because the amount of money i give them is limited. But think people will find some battles atrocious and become very much like me.

This is a game for players to enjoy themselves, we are the consumers that provide income, and when great changed are made, such as release of night city and the following events- i personally spent a lot in support of the developers of the game. I'm not sure if other feel this way but some times i get a thought where the devs are doing good with releasing the contents, ill buy some support packs and give my self greater enjoyment while supporting them in making new and meaningful content.

I understand the need for develops to power-creep the game to generate income, however, some testing should be done before releasing such impacting and game breaking stuff like chance of not taking damage in a turn based game.
Sure, it increase purchase, but releasing a problematic mechanic into the game(chance of not taking damage in a turn based game?) which could result in very long battles can make the game very un-fun, and not-fun is not something good for the game. I feel that the game is shifting too hard into forcing players to spend more in acquiring the latest and greatest, and what would happen is.
-Current player who CANNOT spend cannot catch up will leave because the game is un-fun for them.
-Players who CAN spend, will do so to stay in top but with long battles and RNG they will feel unrewarded.
-Of course, we may have people who enjoy long battles, feel free to say so.

Kaz_LOTB
03-01-2019, 03:23 PM
Thanks for the engagement Kaz!

Edit: So regular mythicals wont change?

Actually, the regular Mythics do have an increase of 50 frags, but the other Mythics will remain as is.

-Kaz

Kaz_LOTB
03-01-2019, 04:05 PM
Regarding concerns about the Labyrinth Talismans, the feedback is appreciated and your concerns are understood.

As always we will keep an eye on things and adjust if need be, but during testing they did not outright prove to be better than Eclipse Talismans (or even Destiny for that matter) due to the prevalence of multi-hitters, immunity, their inability to prevent MAX HP reduction, and the surprising difference the 10% HP damage makes vs the 5% in killing the target with these talismans faster (using pretty accessible units). As far as their effectiveness on blockers like Set, they are okay, but passive disable tends to mitigate their advantage as well as the additional hits of damage they take from blocking the hits of other allies (Destiny was much more of a problem so far than these Talismans atm, I think). Shadow Sustaining / Advantage is still probably a more reliable build for Set.

These Talismans are more meant to allow certain Eddies (and potentially other characters) to become useful in Arena Offense / Defense, because they do increase the chances of them at least being able to survive the first round (unlike Shroud which can be stripped).

The main point is, with any character or talisman it is important that we actually have the chance to play with them in context to get the clearest picture of their overall strength and potential in the meta. If we find that it becomes too prevalent or overwhelming for whatever reason, we will look at adjusting them as needed, while still allowing them to reach their goals.


-Kaz

Blade
03-01-2019, 04:29 PM
Actually, the regular Mythics do have an increase of 50 frags, but the other Mythics will remain as is.

-Kaz

I am really confused now with these changes. Could you please share a clear list with us showing which type of frags will be affected? This would be really great and helpful, and highly appreciated! Thanks!

Liu
03-01-2019, 04:29 PM
I dare you to demonstrate to us how your testing procedure works. There is a 25% percent chance for a successful hit when labyrinth are equipped. Meaning, for 10% HP damage, I require to make 4 hits (in expectation). In order to deal 100% HP damage I have to hit 40 times. With eclipse on the other hand, 5% HP is lost on each hit. meaning for 100% HP damage I need to hit 20 times. That's half of what is required for toons equipped with labyrinth. Plus, labyrinth is one talisman less than eclipse, not a buff (it's a passive) and inflicts debuffs on all enemies. If your tests don't reveal the superiority of labyrinth your testing procedures are seriously flawed.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 04:31 PM
Regarding concerns about the Labyrinth Talismans, the feedback is appreciated and your concerns are understood.

As always we will keep an eye on things and adjust if need be, but during testing they did not outright prove to be better than Eclipse Talismans (or even Destiny for that matter) due to the prevalence of multi-hitters, immunity, their inability to prevent MAX HP reduction, and the surprising difference the 10% HP damage makes vs the 5% in killing the target with these talismans faster (using pretty accessible units). As far as their effectiveness on blockers like Set, they are okay, but passive disable tends to mitigate their advantage as well as the additional hits of damage they take from blocking the hits of other allies (Destiny was much more of a problem so far than these Talismans atm, I think). Shadow Sustaining / Advantage is still probably a more reliable build for Set.

These Talismans are more meant to allow certain Eddies (and potentially other characters) to become useful in Arena Offense / Defense, because they do increase the chances of them at least being able to survive the first round (unlike Shroud which can be stripped).

The main point is, with any character or talisman it is important that we actually have the chance to play with them in context to get the clearest picture of their overall strength and potential in the meta. If we find that it becomes too prevalent or overwhelming for whatever reason, we will look at adjusting them as needed, while still allowing them to reach their goals.


-Kaz

Kaz u do realize the invisibility from shadow is removed from Set the moment he attacks and leaving him open for enemy turn and Set will not have invisibility untill player's turn so Shadow set in 99% of the cases is useless for Set as a block set, it however is great for damage i suppose.

Kaz_LOTB
03-01-2019, 05:05 PM
If your tests don't reveal the superiority of labyrinth your testing procedures are seriously flawed.

There is no doubt they take more hits on average, they are just more variable than Eclipse and can really be hampered by Max HP reduction effects. They are also not that much more difficult to take out in a round with just a few multi-hitters. Eclipse does have the weakness of being strippable, but there is a trade off there for sure. And as I mentioned, on a Blocker like Set, they don't tend to perform as well as you might expect due to all the incoming hits from allies. The other factor to consider is that Eclipse is becoming a fairly accessible set as they are farmable in the dungeons, whereas all 5-sets will be much more difficulty to obtain, but can be used with a cosmic talisman, so again there is a trade off in cost vs value that will need to be considered within the larger context as well.



It however is great for damage i suppose.

Yeah, I find Shadow way better on Set, personally for this reason. If you go second you usually have protection for the first turn, if you go first paired with a primordial user or other damage enhancer, you can deal great damage and give yourself Perfect Hit, which potentially allows you to do it again next turn.

-Kaz

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 05:13 PM
These Talismans are more meant to allow certain Eddies (and potentially other characters) to become useful in Arena Offense / Defense, because they do increase the chances of them at least being able to survive the first round (unlike Shroud which can be stripped).

-Kaz

I am not sure if this a the direction to go but if these talismans were designed with Eddies in mind could they be flagged to only be used on Eddies? Then you accomplish the goal and not cause too much turmoil once someone figures out the "best possible ally" use for them.

I cannot get too much behind the pushback factor on these new sets until they actually come into play and we have tested them ourselves. Mostly we can only speculate on the outcome and can't really make a judgement.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 05:16 PM
however there is currently a bug with Invisibility and immunity not working properly on first turn when enemy team has both KP and Prisoner
my chracter was running SET with Shadow yesterday and expecting useful interaction. but it seems my SET's passive as well as my Assassin Banshee's passive are disabled even tho i have no Passive disable icon on my characters when the enemies won the coin toss and attack my team i basically wiped.

Keep in mind that i had Immunity on assasin banshee and Shadow on set so its not possible for my characters to have passive disable

it feels more like somehow KP is removing the "Buff" applied by assassin banshee because this bug goes away if i use a sacrifice set on blocker so KP does not seem to remove assassin banshee's passive from my blocker.

Kaz_LOTB
03-01-2019, 05:21 PM
however there is currently a bug with Invisibility and immunity not working properly on first turn when enemy team has both KP and Prisoner
my chracter was running SET with Shadow yesterday and expecting useful interaction. but it seems my SET's passive as well as my Assassin Banshee's passive are disabled even tho i have no Passive disable icon on my characters when the enemies won the coin toss and attack my team i basically wiped.

Keep in mind that i had Immunity on assasin banshee and Shadow on set so its not possible for my characters to have passive disable

it feels more like somehow KP is removing the "Buff" applied by assassin banshee because this bug goes away if i use a sacrifice set on blocker so KP does not seem to remove assassin banshee's passive from my blocker.

I believe this may actually be an issue with the Prisoner that we're looking into along with other Passive Disable fixes. Did you happen to have a Prisoner on your team as well, or was it only on the enemy's team?

-Kaz

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 05:36 PM
It is not technically a "bug" Zantarath. It is more of an unintentional mechanic based on the Prisoner's Passive. This why I inquired as to when Prisoner passive would be adjusted. What happens when you have KP/Prisoner is that the KP passive will always kick in first removing two beneficial effects, Immunity not withstanding since he can remove any two effects and if you only have two then you lose them both. Then the Prisoner passive kicks in and disables your team. Add to that Primordials and you begin the match at a severe disadvantage, especially if you lose the coin toss as well. What appears to be a bug is that if you can cleanse the Disable Passive or "transform" it with Alchemist, the effect is still in place and the next round the AI defense will still be able to bypass the Assassin Banshee passive because the latent Disable Passive is still in place so your team is still under the effects of Disable Passive. This only happens when the two allies are combined. Prisoner alone will not remove Immunity if you have it on an ally. Prisoner will still Disable Passive on anyone without Immunity. KP will still remove two effects when alone but the Disable Passive in not in place so the Assassin banshee will still protect the blocker even if they don't have Immunity.

The Emperor
03-01-2019, 05:43 PM
Those new Labyrinth Talismans will be a very big game breaker, and you know why? How are we supposed to know when the enemys got a user of them? Should i just Always be prepared now and bring only Multi hitters during an Arena match? I understand that you want to make a efw Chars better by giving them an Option to survive, but the numbers are just to high. Furthermore, A char that would counter them Pretty good for example would be gunner dog. He hits 6 times and has a Chance of reset, but you know what? the Talismans do a stop effect! You guys could just Change the numbers a bit, like 50% Chance to be hit with 15% of the Health. I mean Keep in mind that Mres and armor still reduce the dmg of the hits!. This will be more than enough to help Eddies like Doomsday survive a hit!

Natasmai
03-01-2019, 05:53 PM
There is no doubt they take more hits on average, they are just more variable than Eclipse and can really be hampered by Max HP reduction effects. They are also not that much more difficult to take out in a round with just a few multi-hitters. Eclipse does have the weakness of being strippable, but there is a trade off there for sure. And as I mentioned, on a Blocker like Set, they don't tend to perform as well as you might expect due to all the incoming hits from allies. The other factor to consider is that Eclipse is becoming a fairly accessible set as they are farmable in the dungeons, whereas all 5-sets will be much more difficulty to obtain, but can be used with a cosmic talisman, so again there is a trade off in cost vs value that will need to be considered within the larger context as well.




Yeah, I find Shadow way better on Set, personally for this reason. If you go second you usually have protection for the first turn, if you go first paired with a primordial user or other damage enhancer, you can deal great damage and give yourself Perfect Hit, which potentially allows you to do it again next turn.

-Kaz

Did I miss something? Where are the 6 set talismans dropping? Or when will this start? If you are referring to the monthly RNG-fest dungeon runs, maybe fix the drop rates. I must have done over 1000 runs for primordials and i think i got 2 or 3 total and they all came WELL after the 600 run mark.

Otherwise, is this a new change coming soon? Personally I would like to see a reasonable chance of the 6 set talismans to drop from the talisman horde daily, instead of complete crap talismans that i just sell right away.

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 06:18 PM
I just got an update so it looks like the updates are in place now looking at Soul Prices now

Rare Souls - 50 frags
Rare Gunner/Assassin Souls - 150 frags (seems a bit high)
Legendary, Heroic Legendary and all Class Epic Souls - 250 frags
All Mythical Souls - 500 frags

All others unchanged.

Checking the Banshee now.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 06:22 PM
It is not technically a "bug" Zantarath. It is more of an unintentional mechanic based on the Prisoner's Passive. This why I inquired as to when Prisoner passive would be adjusted. What happens when you have KP/Prisoner is that the KP passive will always kick in first removing two beneficial effects, Immunity not withstanding since he can remove any two effects and if you only have two then you lose them both. Then the Prisoner passive kicks in and disables your team. Add to that Primordials and you begin the match at a severe disadvantage, especially if you lose the coin toss as well. What appears to be a bug is that if you can cleanse the Disable Passive or "transform" it with Alchemist, the effect is still in place and the next round the AI defense will still be able to bypass the Assassin Banshee passive because the latent Disable Passive is still in place so your team is still under the effects of Disable Passive. This only happens when the two allies are combined. Prisoner alone will not remove Immunity if you have it on an ally. Prisoner will still Disable Passive on anyone without Immunity. KP will still remove two effects when alone but the Disable Passive in not in place so the Assassin banshee will still protect the blocker even if they don't have Immunity.

No man this is not like a million turns after
this is the FIRST turn. like before ANYTHING happens
my characters have no Icon of the disable passive itsnot present on any character except FFE and Alchmist who have no immunity talismans
But still the passives does not kick in

if they has passive disabled then how do u explain that when i swaped to a different blocker with a different talisman set (immune sacrifice instead of shadow)when i fight the same team with the same coin toss that all of a sudden this stuff is not present anymore? also the Immune and sacrifice was removed leaving only the heal shield so i have perma death and curse but no passive disable which si same as SET with shadow set, however, this time the banshee's passive is present so FFE and Alchmist take normal amounts of damage that's covered by banshee while banshee took damage till 50% and blocker was also covered by banshee

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 06:26 PM
Can you list your team and talismans Zantarath so I can try and emulate it? Also what team are you facing? I am sure I can find one that matches lol.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 06:32 PM
First team(buggy)
Beast eddie(Sustain/Warlord/Assassin)
Alchmist(Angel/Trap/Cosmic)
A.Banshee(Sustain/Warlord/Immunity)
SET(Sustain/Shadow)

Second Team(not buggy? 90% of the time)
FFE(Sustain/Sustain/Warlord)
Alchmist(Angel/Trap/Cosmic)
A.Banshee(Sustain/Warlord/Immunity)
Desert Guaridan(Immune/Sacrifice/Random Green)

Fighting Charlette/FFE/KP/Prisoner

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 06:53 PM
It must be a visual bug since you do not have Immunity on Beast, Alchemist or Set, then you should have Passive Disable placed on your team at the beginning of the fight. The Invisibility from Shadow should also be removed from KP and Passive Disable should be in place.

zamasu
03-01-2019, 07:05 PM
I would say that this was the SHITTIEST move ever from you guys!!!!

You first say you will change the fragments in the UPCOMING UPDATE and yet you do it IMMEDIATELY when we start asking what and by how much they are changing. You didn't give us a change to convert our fragments. That is SHITTY and FUCKED UP! I'm sorry but you guys are losing all of the players trust with moves like that.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 07:06 PM
so ur saying that invisibility dont function correctly compared to immune talisman?
i guess this could explain why banshee and set and some times alchmist gets 1 shotted
since unprotected banshee dies than the damage flow over to rest fo the chars and everyone dies
just that visually i dont see the passive disable which is funny
so its invisibility's priority bug at work here then

zamasu
03-01-2019, 07:08 PM
They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.

-Kaz

And just to quote what was said you less than 20 hours AGO.... "WITH THE NEXT UPDATE"

fuck up move. Beyond pissed I lost more than 50% of all stacked fragments with this shitty move

Tim28213
03-01-2019, 07:11 PM
I was in the process of converting my rare soul fragments to souls when the update happened. I have 1730 fragments remaining that I didn't get to convert before the cost change. That's over 30 souls I'm going to lose. If there was a button to convert more than one at a time I would have been done. I'm going to put in a ticket I think.

GotN
03-01-2019, 07:19 PM
So for a legendary soul we now need 250 instead of 100 fragments??? Are you guys fucking crazy??? Do you know, that we mostly only get 4* shit from these souls and now we have to collect 2.5x the amount??? Rare soul is 50 now, don’t know about class specific rare, but this is a big let down to many of us and I would seriously rethink my actions if I were you!!!

tex-0775
03-01-2019, 07:23 PM
And just to quote what was said you less than 20 hours AGO.... "WITH THE NEXT UPDATE"

fuck up move. Beyond pissed I lost more than 50% of all stacked fragments with this shitty move

I agree, this is one of the shittiest moves NF has pulled yet. Kinda strange that, when crap is being introduced, "everything" works as intended :(

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 07:24 PM
this is their solution to us having too many fragments after all
whith this they wont need a claim all button

Amarthir
03-01-2019, 07:30 PM
Considering that you only usually find Fragments of these types in skull quests on the daily it's a weird choice to change them since their issue was because of the Sacrifice and fragments from souls. I'm rather happy that epic and mythical souls remained untouched.

But to push this update with no warning and take away plenty of player's souls is a pretty dickish move I gotta say.

I would have preferred a claim all button in fragments

Muzzleloader
03-01-2019, 07:45 PM
Some people had tons of legendary or rare soul frags from the sacrifice events. It would have been nice to start a new type of frag and slowly obsolete the older frags so immediate conversion or loss of souls did not take place..

They also need to increase the soul inventory slots since all these new type of souls they are generating. Otherwise they are making us convert souls because of lack of inventory space.

druid138
03-01-2019, 07:54 PM
Some people had tons of legendary or rare soul frags from the sacrifice events. It would have been nice to start a new type of frag and slowly obsolete the older frags so immediate conversion or loss of souls did not take place..

They also need to increase the soul inventory slots since all these new type of souls they are generating. Otherwise they are making us convert souls because of lack of inventory space.

Yes, totally agree on all points.

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 08:11 PM
this Hurts new players mroe than it does to the upper echelon
honst would not recommend to my friends at the current state
people who come to try the waters would have second thoughts

Waffen
03-01-2019, 08:38 PM
I have not looked at this forum until now and it’s too late for me. It’s a shitty move NF made by increasing the fragments required to claim legendary souls. I have a shit ton on rare soul and legendary soul fragments, but was just too lazy to spend almost an hour to claim them all. And now they have been reduced to less than half without any heads up in the game.

I lost almost 20 legendary souls due to this and countless rare souls. Is this the end of the world? No! But it is beyond discouraging to players that have been hoarding these fragments. This is not the first time they have done something like this and I am sure they will continue to do so in the future. So my reaction to this move from NF is that they will not be getting a dime from me anymore.

I don’t spend too much but I do buy monthly ironite packs and some special offers that are too good to pass away. I do this to help support the developers and appreciate all the work they put in to maintain this game. But with this move, they have lost my respect (not that they care)..

Blade
03-01-2019, 08:47 PM
I have not looked at this forum until now and it’s too late for me. It’s a shitty move NF made by increasing the fragments required to claim legendary souls. I have a shit ton on rare soul and legendary soul fragments, but was just too lazy to spend almost an hour to claim them all. And now they have been reduced to less than half without any heads up in the game.

I lost almost 20 legendary souls due to this and countless rare souls. Is this the end of the world? No? But it is beyond discouraging to players that have been hoarding these fragments. This is not the first time they have done something like this and I am sure they will continue to do so in the future. So my reaction to this is move from NF is that they will not be getting a dime from me anymore.

I don’t spend too much but I do buy monthly ironite packs and some special offers that are too good to pass away. I do this to help support the developers and appreciate all the work they put in to maintain this game. But with this move, they have lost my respect (not that they care)..

Amen.

I don't know what you mean exactly by they did it in the past, I only remember the missing compensation for the first Primordial appearance and for the bugged gold and crimson event. To me, this change on-the-fly right into the discussion with Kaz was the most evil thing. Even so evil that I somehow doubt that this was planned.
I lost about 60 legendaries and 90 rares and I am still not over it

zamasu
03-01-2019, 08:52 PM
Amen.

I don't know what you mean exactly by they did it in the past, I only remember the missing compensation for the first Primordial appearance and for the bugged gold and crimson event. To me, this change on-the-fly right into the discussion with Kaz was the most evil thing. Even so evil that I somehow doubt that this was planned.
I lost about 60 legendaries and 90 rares and I am still not over it

I lost over 100 and over 100 legendaries ... about 50 Color rares ... I don't know what else changed I quit the game right after I saw those new 'prices"

Blade
03-01-2019, 08:58 PM
My condolences. With this I guess you are "the biggest loser".
Actually, we should stop playing. But if all disappointed people stop giving money it could also be very interesting... Fortunately, we have almost all the characters, but still it's just incredible.

Stormseye
03-01-2019, 09:02 PM
Just noticed Beast is now 3000 FC instead of 3500.

Blade
03-01-2019, 09:06 PM
Just noticed Beast is now 3000 FC instead of 3500.

Interesting!! With the current thing going on, it would make more sense to double the frontier coin ("frags") needed to 7000 ;)

And also "cool" for the people that bought him before that change...

Amarthir
03-01-2019, 09:08 PM
Just noticed Beast is now 3000 FC instead of 3500.

Would you rather buy one beast or ten trooper Eddies?

Or six Eternity Eddies

Or 4 Lilith's

Or 2 Gods

Or 1 Alexander Eddie

Waffen
03-01-2019, 09:12 PM
Amen.
To me, this change on-the-fly right into the discussion with Kaz was the most evil thing. Even so evil that I somehow doubt that this was planned.
I lost about 60 legendaries and 90 rares and I am still not over it

Now that I read all the posts in this thread, I think you are right. This is planned to be released sooner than planned after they realized that players are converting their existing fragments into souls. I am sure the devs worked overtime to try and get the patch ready ASAP, something they should consider doing about some of the bugs and exploits in the game.

And me too @still not over it. It’s not the lost souls that makes me mad, but the way this has been executed by NF.
I find Lack of information and communication in this game the biggest issue.

Muzzleloader
03-01-2019, 09:15 PM
If other forum members didnt ask questions and if I didnt read the answers I would have lost more than zamasu. It only cost 11/2 hours converting frags to souls. Then I had to convert souls because I ran out of soul slots.

If I lost all those souls I probably would quit. I am only playing half the time while my nephew learns the game and takes my account over. The pace they are releasing toons/talisman I dont have the time to learn how to play them during the grinding events.

Blade
03-01-2019, 09:25 PM
If other forum members didnt ask questions and if I didnt read the answers I would have lost more than zamasu. It only cost 11/2 hours converting frags to souls. Then I had to convert souls because I ran out of soul slots.

If I lost all those souls I probably would quit. I am only playing half the time while my nephew learns the game and takes my account over. The pace they are releasing toons/talisman I dont have the time to learn how to play them during the grinding events.

Well then lucky you! I should have anticipated this, as it is known that you also have a good inventory management. Druid, how about you?
Within my anger and frustration I also think about to quit. Would be a well deserved finish, lol.
On the other hand I just enjoy a PvP match against Wipp's madams ;) He is at 18k points now!

I can feel you with all the stress. I still did not have time to try out the count, madam, redan, all other banshees apart from assassin, the Killer and of course today's Killer Beast - I also need someone to share the account with :)

Amarthir
03-01-2019, 09:27 PM
My story is a little funny cuz I didn't have rare souls and stuff to convert I converted around 120 heroic souls and all my mythical souls thinking that was what they were changing so now my book is cluttered up with souls that I'm not claiming until someone good comes along.

This is why we don't claim our fragments and this is also why we need a claim all button!

Tim28213
03-01-2019, 09:37 PM
From early on there is an incentive to hoard resources in this game. The developers have done a really good job of rewarding people for hoarding resources with many of the events that have come out, especially the past year. It is a little shocking to see the devs come in and cut resources that people have been hoarding based on game play since the game started in half. I can't log into this game without 3-4 pop ups about whatever special for money is currently available. Sometimes I can't change from one screen to another without the same intermediary screen being displayed. You can't tell me that for a change like this they couldn't put up a single screen somewhere warning players that their hard earned and preciously hoarded resources are about the be devalued dramatically.

I read the forum earlier today and converted everything and was in the middle of converting regular rares when the update occurred. Really not a very customer-service friendly way of implementing this type of change.

Muzzleloader
03-01-2019, 09:44 PM
Amarthir, Kaz did indicate that normal mythical frags cost was going to increase. That may be where you thought it was going to increase. He specifically said heroic frag price would not change. With all the comments it was getting a little confusing to know what to do.

Leviathan
03-01-2019, 10:02 PM
Hello everyone,

Thank you very much for the comments regarding today's changes to Soul Fragments.

Whenever we make changes to game systems, we do our best to give everyone warning to adjust. However, due to an oversight on our end, our tuning notes were posted later than expected.

For a little more context regarding this decision, our past few updates have made Soul Fragments of all kinds much more common. They now drop from Event Challenges, Skull Quests, Sacrifice, and will appear when Souls are summoned. The previous Fragment conversion rates were based on the relative rarity of these items. This change was meant to update the system to be more inline with the current levels of Fragment drops.

chrismt
03-01-2019, 10:05 PM
Kaz : what about those who bought the beast for 3500 like myself, are you going to give back the extra 500 it cost just a few days ago ? Seems really unfair if you don’t.

Blade
03-01-2019, 10:08 PM
Hello everyone,

Thank you very much for the comments regarding today's changes to Soul Fragments.

Whenever we make changes to game systems, we do our best to give everyone warning to adjust. However, due to an oversight on our end, our tuning notes were posted later than expected.

For a little more context regarding this decision, our past few updates have made Soul Fragments of all kinds much more common. They now drop from Event Challenges, Skull Quests, Sacrifice, and will appear when Souls are summoned. The previous Fragment conversion rates were based on the relative rarity of these items. This change was meant to update the system to be more inline with the current levels of Fragment drops.

This is indeed ok, but only for the recent and in particular FUTURE fragment drops. But definitively not for the frags that we earned during the old times when these drops were NOT that common.
Do you plan any sort of compensation?

Muzzleloader
03-01-2019, 10:14 PM
Leviathan, I cant speak for anyone but myself. I dont find the exchange rate increase out of line since all the recent changes in acquiring frags. The problem is the devaluation of current inventories without an explicit time for the change to allow players a chance to cash their frags for souls.

An alternative to devaluation could have been creating new frags and allow players to use the old frags at their original exchange rate.

druid138
03-01-2019, 10:22 PM
Well then lucky you! I should have anticipated this, as it is known that you also have a good inventory management. Druid, how about you?
Within my anger and frustration I also think about to quit.

Hey Blade - I've been thinking about how to respond to this thing. A lot of my thoughts have already been stated by others.

But, since you asked me specifically, let me say a few random things.

First, it was just a couple days ago that the LotB team unexpectedly lifted the limits on some key Blood Fragment items in the Store. That built a ton of goodwill with me, so I'm probably a lot more tolerant of this price change than I otherwise would have been.

Second, the actual impact of this specific change to my own account isn't that terrible. I am a notorious hoarder of resources, but rare souls and rare soul fragments are the least valuable souls to me, so I always burn them first in sacrifice events. I currently have only 200 or so rare soul fragments. Similarly, I don't have a ton of rare class soul fragments. Because rare class souls are scarce enough, they don't create large inventory problems against the 50 soul stack limit. So, I usually convert those fragments to souls right away. Legendary Souls were a bigger loss, where I lost about 30 of them. So, I personally got pretty lucky based on how I have optimized in the face of the 50 soul stack limit. I have been asking for over a year for the 50 soul stack limit to increase, and that only becomes more reasonable as we get more types of souls.

Third, even though I personally wasn't hit particularly bad this time, I don't evaluate changes to the game based on how they affect me personally. I try to be more objective and consider how they affect the game integrity and community. In that regard, I'm quite unhappy with this change. For me, it's less about the specifics of the particular change and more about the precedent that was set. We were given only about 24 hours notice that this was even being considered. And, there was no notice about the specific timing. So, waking up to a significant reduction of resources makes me more cautious about the future.

I do believe that the LotB team has good intentions. Very often, choices they make that seem strange at first turn out to be very reasonable once we get the big picture down the road. That may happen again this time, but I still don't like the feeling of essentially having souls taken away without notice.

druid138
03-01-2019, 10:24 PM
Leviathan, I cant speak for anyone but myself. I dont find the exchange rate increase out of line since all the recent changes in acquiring frags. The problem is the devaluation of current inventories without an explicit time for the change to allow players a chance to cash their frags for souls.

An alternative to devaluation could have been creating new frags and allow players to use the old frags at their original exchange rate.

I agree with this 100%.

edsel
03-01-2019, 10:47 PM
Would you rather buy one beast or ten trooper Eddies?

Or six Eternity Eddies

Or 4 Lilith's

Or 2 Gods

Or 1 Alexander Eddie

So Amarthir...The Beast is one of the only characters you don't have. Will you get him or should we wait until he is on sale for less than 3k? Really all we use any of these novelty characters for is once or twice every two weeks in Gauntlet. Takes a looong time to pile up 3k FC.

R1ck
03-01-2019, 11:07 PM
Seriously devs, two days ago The Beast was released on FC store for 3500, which I bought this morning. Now it costs 3000. Will you give me my 500 FC back?

Blade
03-01-2019, 11:12 PM
Seriously devs, two days ago The Beast was released on FC store for 3500, which I bought this morning. Now it costs 3000. Will you give me my 500 FC back?

There was again the new data info. I thought they would set back the fragment rates.... but guess what they did? The Beast now costs 3.5k again!

Tim28213
03-01-2019, 11:17 PM
I'm sure the changes will be wonderful moving forward. I'm sure I will appreciate having an easier time getting these resources moving forward. I feel really ripped off for the way this was presented and implemented right now, and likely for a good bit of time moving forward. This is just a really bad PR job and lack of consideration of the impact of changing an existing resource.

Were you in such a hurry to implement this change before we could all cash in our existing stock that you weren't able to get the Banshee fix in as well? Now you increase the cost of Beast again in a hotfix? Way to make a bad customer service event look even worse.

I love this game. I hate the way you guys implement updates and changes. It always feels like everything is so rushed that you just cannot get it all right.

Blade
03-01-2019, 11:18 PM
Hey Blade ...

Hey Druid,
thanks for your reply! That's why I usually like your post a lot. They are well written (at least for me as a non-native speaker), well reflected and always seeing the bigger frame.
Also I remember that you always did a good job in being effective and efficient in the game so I wondered if we share more strategies. This is not the case concerning the rare soul frags. I think they are valuable, as in some events they are the only souls that count. Moreover, I recently avoided using rares during sacrifices, as I currently have/had all chars available in that pool, until Iron Maiden Eddie came out.
I mostly agree with the reasoning Leviathan gave, certainly not for the class rares...those frags are the most scarce resource in the game actually, lol!

The idea from Muzzle about the new rare soul type is just perfect! And could still be implemented...cough cough devs.... easy solution making your players happy...cough cough

Blade
03-01-2019, 11:19 PM
Were you in such a hurry to implement this change before we could all cash in our existing stock that you weren't able to get the Banshee fix in as well? Now you increase the cost of Beast again in a hotfix? Way to make a bad customer service event look even worse.

I love this game. I hate the way you guys implement updates and changes. It always feels like everything is so rushed that you just cannot get it all right.

This would have been my next post. Waiting to get the announced Banshee fix done before releasing that update with the severe consequences for our frags would have saved us all a lot of anger!

Zantarath
03-01-2019, 11:37 PM
i'm just glad i cashed in before the tuning
to be honest i didnt expect the update before the Feb events were over

BG840
03-01-2019, 11:52 PM
C'mon NF surely you see
the fragment snafu is pretty underhanded and low even by your standards

BG840
03-01-2019, 11:54 PM
Notice should have been given just like y'all did with the skill shards back when.

BG840
03-02-2019, 12:25 AM
Given the Pavlovian routine for claiming frags/souls it's easy to not pay too much attention to the cost after a while, and that I'm guessing is what they're counting on the players doing. You'll never see a claim all button in this game because it would break the conditioning cycle

druid138
03-02-2019, 12:36 AM
Second, the actual impact of this specific change to my own account isn't that terrible. I am a notorious hoarder of resources, but rare souls and rare soul fragments are the least valuable souls to me, so I always burn them first in sacrifice events. I currently have only 200 or so rare soul fragments. Similarly, I don't have a ton of rare class soul fragments. Because rare class souls are scarce enough, they don't create large inventory problems against the 50 soul stack limit. So, I usually convert those fragments to souls right away. Legendary Souls were a bigger loss, where I lost about 30 of them. So, I personally got pretty lucky based on how I have optimized in the face of the 50 soul stack limit. I have been asking for over a year for the 50 soul stack limit to increase, and that only becomes more reasonable as we get more types of souls.

Okay, a couple final comments after a few more hours of reflection.

First, to be honest, the fact that I lost 30 legendary souls is more painful than I was originally giving it credit for. Initially, I was mostly focused on the fact that it could have been a lot worse. But, 30 legendaries go a long way when you consider all the downstream benefits from sacrificing.

Second, that being the case, I will be the first to admit that I have benefited a lot from some unintentionally generous events in this game. I missed out on the Primordial sacrifice event. But, I was able to sacrifice pretty aggressively in all of the other sacrifice events that were probably more generous than the LotB team intended (last month's included). So, to be fair, while it does sting to see the souls disappear, I am sure that I am still net positive compared to what the LotB team originally intended when calibrating their events.

druid138
03-02-2019, 12:44 AM
Hey Druid,
thanks for your reply! That's why I usually like your post a lot. They are well written (at least for me as a non-native speaker), well reflected and always seeing the bigger frame.
Also I remember that you always did a good job in being effective and efficient in the game so I wondered if we share more strategies. This is not the case concerning the rare soul frags. I think they are valuable, as in some events they are the only souls that count. Moreover, I recently avoided using rares during sacrifices, as I currently have/had all chars available in that pool, until Iron Maiden Eddie came out.
I mostly agree with the reasoning Leviathan gave, certainly not for the class rares...those frags are the most scarce resource in the game actually, lol!

Thanks, Blade! I appreciate it! I agree with your point about rare souls. I do still burn them first, but I always save two stacks for the kinds of events you're referring to. I probably should save more of them actually. But, for now, I guess I got lucky to not have many rare soul frags.

Waffen
03-02-2019, 02:02 AM
Second, that being the case, I will be the first to admit that I have benefited a lot from some unintentionally generous events in this game. I missed out on the Primordial sacrifice event. But, I was able to sacrifice pretty aggressively in all of the other sacrifice events that were probably more generous than the LotB team intended (last month's included). So, to be fair, while it does sting to see the souls disappear, I am sure that I am still net positive compared to what the LotB team originally intended when calibrating their events.

I agree that the last months sac event has been really generous. I got 2-3 new characters and a shit ton of FC and heroic souls. I saved over 4K legendary fragments I got from that event for the next sac event. But The fact that more than half of that has been taken away without any notice doesn’t build any goodwill with the player base.

I totally understand and agree the reason behind increasing the cost for claiming legendary souls. Though the 20+ legendary souls I lost would have been useful in the next sac event, I personally didn’t feel too upset to lose them. I feel more angry about the way it was done.

I feel like NF did a very generous event and gave us a lot of shit only to take more than half of it away when we are not looking. That feeling just makes me not wanna play this game. But instead I decided to be a freeloader going forward and not spend a dime on this game.

Metallicamilo
03-02-2019, 02:04 AM
oh labyrinth ...at this rate, might it shock you if they start banning characters or talismans??

the new content is just power and power, with little or no weakness as before and as everything becomes OP out of nowhere, the fun is drifting away. just look at the teams on the arena.. same three characters with no creativity whatsoever. There's no strategy anymore, which is the actual fun in turn based games.

Reduce HP attacks are not frequent, even with talismans, but, i guess a "cannot be healed" draw back would counter it more effectively than expecting a random chance and without affecting the Overpowerness of the talisman .

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 03:16 AM
I’ve read this entire thread, and I feel bad for you guys that got screwed, and yes, you got screwed. No question, and this is terrible customer treatment. That being said, the best and only way to combat this type of behavior is with your wallet. I’m an actual spender myself, and over the course of the three years I’ve played this game I have spent more than I have on a real online game in the same time frame. But I’ve also went long spells without dropping a dime because the drops have been shit and I know there hoping I’ll stick more in the slot machine. I don’t. My biggest purchases have been when I am happy because I finally got something. Lately though the packages have been effing terrible so it’s easier to not spend. I wait till they cough up the big Ironite over time deals as that is the only thing worth the money.

Some have commented on how “generous” NF has been lately, to which I sit here saying “bitch, please”. They need to do that once in awhile, because more often than not it’s not the case. The doubling of fragments for the souls in question are completely asinine as they aren’t worth a pinch of owl shit 99.9999999999% of the time. Pure sac fodder, nothing more. So yeah, I did not see why they wasted the time and resources on that particular endeavor. Whatever.

Vote with your wallets. It’s above all the loudest attention getter of any company looking to make money.

Yup
03-02-2019, 04:05 AM
Navigator Games Board Meeting: "Wait... souls are too easy to get now... shit!.. Okay we need to screw the players and make that 0.01% probability of a good drop even more rare...... lets just DEVALUE everything they have collected already...."

--------

At the VERY least you could have multiplied current fragments by the same increase -- so If I had 450 Legendary fragments and a Legendary soul cost 100 Frags... I had 4.5 souls... you could have upped the cost to 250 frags.. and UPPED MY FRAGMENTS to 1125 still leaving me 4.5 souls... but nooooooooooooooooooooo you just screw the players.

What is the point of having "Events" if you then turn around and take rewards AWAY from players?????

This is unethical and immoral. Perhaps again. borderline FRAUD. I used resources to acquire what I had. For you to just arbitrarily devalue the rewards makes it all bait and switch and false advertising.

Am I upset that I lost some souls due to this? No, not really. I'm not chasing any characters in souls at the moment so I was simply storing the fragments/souls. However, I am infuriated by the ETHICS shown in this move. I just hope all the stock in the company you may have gets diluted in the same manner...

OdoyleRules
03-02-2019, 04:30 AM
Hello everyone,

Thank you very much for the comments regarding today's changes to Soul Fragments.

Whenever we make changes to game systems, we do our best to give everyone warning to adjust. However, due to an oversight on our end, our tuning notes were posted later than expected.

For a little more context regarding this decision, our past few updates have made Soul Fragments of all kinds much more common. They now drop from Event Challenges, Skull Quests, Sacrifice, and will appear when Souls are summoned. The previous Fragment conversion rates were based on the relative rarity of these items. This change was meant to update the system to be more inline with the current levels of Fragment drops.

You just devalued everything that was saved before, from crappier frag drops. Did you even once think about that? You reasoning is complete bullshit. You are trying to eliminate hoarders. I wipe my arse with your excuses.

Amarthir
03-02-2019, 04:41 AM
Amarthir, Kaz did indicate that normal mythical frags cost was going to increase. That may be where you thought it was going to increase. He specifically said heroic frag price would not change. With all the comments it was getting a little confusing to know what to do.

I actually claimed all my souls BEFORE I found out which ones were gonna be changed. So it was lack of hesitation on my end.


So Amarthir...The Beast is one of the only characters you don't have. Will you get him or should we wait until he is on sale for less than 3k? Really all we use any of these novelty characters for is once or twice every two weeks in Gauntlet. Takes a looong time to pile up 3k FC.

Well I'll certainly buy him once I have enough frontier coins. I'm about halfway there with just over 1700 frontier coins in my pocket. I still don't like how high the price is considering that he isn't even that great.

T-Man
03-02-2019, 04:53 AM
Total unethical move with devaluing the soul frags ALREADY EARNED! You guys just snuck this in very quickly before we could all cash in our frags too. I mean when has there ever an update on the first of the month? Seriously disappointed in you guys for pulling this crap!

hold
03-02-2019, 06:25 AM
Vote with your wallets. Itís above all the loudest attention getter of any company looking to make money.

I was just about to buy the 850 ironite deal because I was happy that I got the Killer Beast with the blood frags + 10 bought souls AND I finally got the beast from saving FC forever but wanted to wait for the update happening. Even I don't have frags to claim left (burnt a lot in the last sac event) I cannot support that move. I simply can't,

I agree with all the angry people here. The move would be OK if handled very much differently - new soul to let the old one running out smooth or like Yup said compensate the frags in the bank to level the field. And yes there are so many popup windows in the game that they could have easily warned everyone loud and clear what will happen. Not cool.

It is true that souls are easier to get but I said a few weeks ago that souls are rather worthless now as the high level chars don't turn up in them and like you said: pure Sac fodder ... but even taking a lot of sac fodder away in this rather evil move is just a no go.

So I vote with my wallet and won't buy the ironite pack. Make it right and I will spend again once in a while (not the crazy prices you they are asking for those "offers" but the occasional ironite pack)

The Emperor
03-02-2019, 07:08 AM
The Thing is think is even more crazy is the increased Prize for openign Souls! I have to pay more than 2 Million for 1 rare stack now? and 7 Million for 1 stack of legendarys? How the hell Am i Supposed to pay that over a decent period of time! If this goes on, i wont be able to Play one day because i cant open any Souls, because i have no Gold! You should actually DECREASE the Prize for Opening a Soul, not increase! Could you please tell me how this Change made any sense?

Esquatcho
03-02-2019, 07:44 AM
I just got an update so it looks like the updates are in place now looking at Soul Prices now

Rare Souls - 50 frags
Rare Gunner/Assassin Souls - 150 frags (seems a bit high)
Legendary, Heroic Legendary and all Class Epic Souls - 250 frags
All Mythical Souls - 500 frags

All others unchanged.

Checking the Banshee now.

Shitty move for them to change it so suddenly without warning!

Still, what were mythicals before, 450?

Class epics, I think were 250 previously werent they? The 'base' ones seem to be the ones impacted most.

Not soo much of an impact for me as I has only really mythicals in shards still....

Liu
03-02-2019, 11:37 AM
The Thing is think is even more crazy is the increased Prize for openign Souls! I have to pay more than 2 Million for 1 rare stack now? and 7 Million for 1 stack of legendarys? How the hell Am i Supposed to pay that over a decent period of time! If this goes on, i wont be able to Play one day because i cant open any Souls, because i have no Gold! You should actually DECREASE the Prize for Opening a Soul, not increase! Could you please tell me how this Change made any sense?

Thank you for pointing that one out, I didn't notice until I read your post. The price for rare souls was exactly doubled. They made adjustments for claiming and redeeming souls overnight, but the bug, where ass banshee's passive triggers 65% of the time instead of 35% has been excluded from this overnight update ? This one has been pointed out a few days after the release of the banshee and still nothing happens ? What the hell ?

You absolutely have to improve communication with the player base and get your priorities straight (1. bug fixes, 2. testing new stuff before release, 3. adjustment of op stuff, 4. work on new content, and then, if you have excess capacities, you can start thinking about reworking the visuals of old content).

You should also start to take our feedback more serious. Virtually all of us are complaining about the upcoming talismans, but you're blurting out blatant lies instead of taking the concept back to the drawing table.

If you want the game to make it to 2020 you should take us more seriously.

Blade
03-02-2019, 12:10 PM
Thank you for pointing that one out, I didn't notice until I read your post. The price for rare souls was exactly doubled. They made adjustments for claiming and redeeming souls overnight, but the bug, where ass banshee's passive triggers 65% of the time instead of 35% has been excluded from this overnight update ? This one has been pointed out a few days after the release of the banshee and still nothing happens ? What the hell ?

You absolutely have to improve communication with the player base and get your priorities straight (1. bug fixes, 2. testing new stuff before release, 3. adjustment of op stuff, 4. work on new content, and then, if you have excess capacities, you can start thinking about reworking the visuals of old content).

You should also start to take our feedback more serious. Virtually all of us are complaining about the upcoming talismans, but you're blurting out blatant lies instead of taking the concept back to the drawing table.

If you want the game to make it to 2020 you should take us more seriously.

Wow, I also did not notice that price jump by now. Another thing that was done on the fly, without any communication about it. For sure the plan is to reduce the outcome from sac events. In general I can somehow even understand that. But the way these changes are done (don't forget they also changed prices during the last sac event!) is really not ok, unworthy and pollutes the name of Iron Maiden. They will never ever see another penny from my side and concluding from what I read here, many others do the same.

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 12:13 PM
The Thing is think is even more crazy is the increased Prize for openign Souls! I have to pay more than 2 Million for 1 rare stack now? and 7 Million for 1 stack of legendarys? How the hell Am i Supposed to pay that over a decent period of time! If this goes on, i wont be able to Play one day because i cant open any Souls, because i have no Gold! You should actually DECREASE the Prize for Opening a Soul, not increase! Could you please tell me how this Change made any sense?

Uh, wow.....

The cost for just opening souls was ridiculous to begin with. “Hey, your chances of getting that character you really wanted are shit to begin with, but why don’t we just take all your gold while you’re at it just for cashing in that soul that cost you twice as many fragments to accumulate.”

Yeah, at this rate, despite the fact I love the art and I’m playing a game based on the best branding a heavy metal band ever marketed, and Maiden is the best act in the world, I’m about to break this particular gaming habit.

Blade
03-02-2019, 12:17 PM
They really seem to love the nails for their own coffin.

xxxphantomfreakxxx
03-02-2019, 12:21 PM
I thought I'd share the latest post of mine in the Forums to the group as it is an issue that is upsetting a fuckton of players


I don't post in here often, but when I do it's normally over something big.
And this is something HUGE
You Nutting Frogs have made very unethical moves in the past, but this one takes the cake !
Devaluing the soul frags for the different Rare Souls, Legendary Souls and Mythical is just straight up disrespectful slap in the face to players across the board ! No advanced warning was given to give players the chance to cash in much hard earned resources ! And your piss poor excuses about an oversight on your part as to posting the preliminary tuning changes later then usual is just complete and utter bullshit !

I for one will call you out on your BULLSHIT and tell you just WHY your excuse hold no water !

1. Out of the thousands of players that play this game an extremely large portion of them DO NOT read the forums.

2. NEVER is any preliminary tuning changes EVER posted to the Official Fakebook page...and even if they were...again the same as #1 not everyone even messes with that page

3. Of the groups dedicated to the game, again only those groups that have the foresight to share the preliminary tuning changes will have any warning...and again only the members of those group...NOT those people that are not members

Therefore you are missing the largest portion of your player base and NOT given any chance of a fair warning to players to cash in on much hard earned resources before you just completely and utterly screw them over !

So I say again...BULLSHIT

And this seems to be the order of the day anymore where Nutting Frog/Navigator Games is concerned is complete and utter BULLSHIT !

Instead of charging less for content bundles, getting MORE players willing to spend money...you charge over priced content.

Instead of giving players a breather from events to work on talismans and characters you flood the game with overlapping event after over lapping event forcing them to participate or get left behind, trying to force their hand at laying waste to resources such as Sands and Ironite which in turn forces them to reconsider spending money they need for day to day living and bills.

You flood the game with new characters you know players will want, saying bullshit like 750 fragments guarantees them the character...yet only give them the chance at earning like 10 of the 75 souls needed...forcing them to throw down cold hard earned cash for the Ironite bundles needed to get the rest of those 75 souls

You throw in over powered talisman as event specials yet only sell them in the store instead of making them earnable in said event

You have been told for months and months on end about serious flaws, issues, errors, bugs and glitches within the game yet take no serious amount of time to fix them...instead wasting time on making runes, shards and talismans look pretty...peddy visual tweaks that in no way shape or form improve the game play or fix system mechanics

Promise much over hyped empty promises for future things to come and all the while ignore serious issues

You KNOW without a shadow of a doubt how completely and utterly broken the Arena is, yet keep throwing out monthly Arena events for which players are expected to play through all those serious flaws and earn rewards

There HAS to be a good communication between you and your player base and yet Support treats us like liars and is beyond rude when we report issues..which in turn disillusions players from ever contacting Support over anything

You treat you player base like we're idiots..telling us flaws and issues are on our end of things instead...blaming the player...for faults you know full well are your own.

And yet...you wonder why those of us that have the BALLS to speak out on behalf of ourselves and others who have no voice because of the three reasons I listed, are sometimes as out spoken if not at times down right rude as we are !

Get your fucking shit together and learn how to run this game like it should be ran...go take classes...get a business partner that has experience at running an online mobile app game...whatever it takes !

Before you just completely kill this game and force yourselves to have to seek employment elsewhere

Purplepixii
03-02-2019, 01:53 PM
I completely missed this change happening so have been screwed over. It's not the first time I've been screwed over by NF - I'm starting to get used to being treated like a cash cow. But not any more. Was about to spend real money and this happened, so I will be voting with my wallet & not spending. More players should do this too, because until it hurts they won't listen to us.

I wonder what Iron Maiden would think of the way their fans are treated by this game? Can't imagine they'd be at all happy about it (& rightly so).

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 02:51 PM
I completely missed this change happening so have been screwed over. It's not the first time I've been screwed over by NF - I'm starting to get used to being treated like a cash cow. But not any more. Was about to spend real money and this happened, so I will be voting with my wallet & not spending. More players should do this too, because until it hurts they won't listen to us.

I wonder what Iron Maiden would think of the way their fans are treated by this game? Can't imagine they'd be at all happy about it (& rightly so).

Iíd doubt the band is overly involved with the game, though I could be way off. Iíd hope like hell that Harris is not another Gene Simmons just looking to fuck his fans for every penny he can get. As the recent video going around suggests, they have asked for his input before, and maybe that was just because the character was based on him. Iím sure the band pays attention to the game somewhat, but I donít believe theyíre the ones pulling the strings.

And on that particular thought, I hope you guys remember not to take it all out on Kaz. He is more or less just the Mouth of Sauron. The real douche bag is further up the ladder.

Zugzwang
03-02-2019, 02:54 PM
I donít have a lot of time to read the whole thing today, so could someone tell me in a sentence or 2 what happened with soul frags? What cost increased or how were they devalued? Thanks.

hold
03-02-2019, 03:21 PM
I don’t have a lot of time to read the whole thing today, so could someone tell me in a sentence or 2 what happened with soul frags? What cost increased or how were they devalued? Thanks.

Legendary: 100 -> 250
Rare: 25 -> 50 (24k to open)

People had loads of frags because of the limits on souls stacks. Could not claim because time in between info about that and update was less than 24 hours.

Good enough?

P.S: just realized I still have 48 Heart souls and they cost now 100k each to open ... wow ...

Muzzleloader
03-02-2019, 03:29 PM
Hold, guess you could convert them to precious souls. For the top end players the soul reclaim cost will be an inconvenience, the new to mid level players it will definetly pinch them while they are still upgraded talisman and evolving toons.

Gold will become a premium at the next sacathon event, everyone will need to start their savings account.

Zugzwang
03-02-2019, 03:36 PM
Oh so itís gold increased too. Wow yea thatís problematic.

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 03:55 PM
Only 2.4 million to cash in that stack of regular heroic souls and get that character you’ve always wanted. What’s that you say? You can’t afford it? Worry not! Just head to the game store and buy our stupidly priced gold packs.

Lol! Not sure if this is actually funny or sad.

So, according to actual gold prices in the store it’s a little less than $20 to now cash in a stack of regular souls.

hold
03-02-2019, 04:23 PM
Hold, guess you could convert them to precious souls. For the top end players the soul reclaim cost will be an inconvenience, the new to mid level players it will definetly pinch them while they are still upgraded talisman and evolving toons.

Gold will become a premium at the next sacathon event, everyone will need to start their savings account.

Good thinking but I really actually got 48 Heart souls and not the fragments for them :)

It's OK - I open one every Sunday so that's <sarcasm>loads of fun for a year</sarcasm>!

Muzzleloader
03-02-2019, 04:50 PM
It would be nice to be able to sell souls. Right now we are stuck with converting souls when our slots are full even if we dont want or need any toons. With all the new souls added they need to increase the available slots. Now they make us spend our gold just to keep playing filling our roster slots up before the next sac event occurs or sacking them even if it causes a vortex to trigger.

What a new predicament this is becoming. Same thing with shards and runes, they keep adding new ones while the slots remain the same. Now some of us have to sell resources just to be able to play.

Intimidator
03-02-2019, 05:37 PM
Well... like many of you I didn’t know about the changes until now.
It’s hard for me to write down how it feels because English isn’t my first language, but I’ll give it a try.
NF fucked me over real good!

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 05:39 PM
Well... like many of you I didn’t know about the changes until now.
It’s hard for me to write down how it feels because English isn’t my first language, but I’ll give it a try.
NF fucked me over real good!

I hereby pronounce your grasp of the English language is excellent! Keep up the good work. ��

rags-6094
03-02-2019, 06:35 PM
I have just read this entire thread, my first look at the forums after returning from my holiday. I did manage to get my troopers done each day with limited services but not much else...
I noticed the soul frag increase and for a very short time after the increase the gold price for converting a soul was tiny, now I see that has also been amended.
For me that bullet has been dodged, I always, always, always claim every possible soul when the frags have reached overflow, but Navigator management this is a disgraceful DOG ACT!

Yup has a good idea multiplying the hard earned frags already accumulated by the players.
The majority of forum members seem to have come to a fair response I'd say, don't open your wallet for them!
I certainly won't be.
In other news, I see cosmic talisman are still virtually unattainable and even harder still to evolve, another thing I won't be opening my wallet for, they took a brilliant idea of single talisman and totally stuffed it!

New Talisman sets on the way... no Zantarath I don't think it's great b.t.w... I have always liked the arena but taking ten minutes to win, lose or draw is a waste of time, If it's not bad enough now introducing more heavy weight talisman sets to further slow down the arena battles is a bad idea.

A lot of changes on the way for one of my old favourites Pharoah Eddie, hunt is just fine the way it is though, leave that alone..
Overall I have to say without the forums we are blind, just cruising along playing our game happily and noticing changes that happen from time to time and Navigating (he he) around them in the short term, excepting them in the long term.

I will always be a big fan of Iron Maiden, but I've almost completely lost my love of the game, Arenas impossible, everything costs more, players being ripped off, shitey events Boss event? Really? Is that all you can come up with, and the rewards?? Woeful! Changing FC prices within days of releasing the Beast? Despicable!

I'm currently dumbfounded by you Navigator Games, you get an A+ on how to take a great game and turn it into a really bad one!

Saigrim
03-02-2019, 07:18 PM
Yep, Rags, Maiden will always be my band till the day I die. Their music is the soundtrack to the majority of my time on this little rock floating in the vastness of space. T-Man, don’t let this stupid little game diminish your love for the band. This game is not what they’re about. Is it cool to see the Eddie we all know and love come to life and play out on our fun little gadgets? You bet your ass it is! But the band and music are what made all this other shit possible. This game is just some sauce on the big enchilada. Up the Irons, brothers!

If we all take, say just one month, leave the wallets closed no matter what they release. I don’t care if it’s Eddies grandma! Just play the game with what you got. If you miss it, it’ll come back around and I guarantee you won’t die of misery in the meantime. Speak with your wallet and maybe NF will pull their heads out of their asses.

Alvorada
03-02-2019, 08:01 PM
Alexander Eddie has immunity to all negative effects and Charlotte to silver effects, given to their passive skills.

But I use they recently and both get silver effects in all game modes.

I have contacted suport to inform this bug a week ago and donīt get an answer yet (besides the auto-reply confirming they receive my e-mail).

Now I see why: NF is too busy making us fools.

I pay my creditcard bill yesterdey and went to buy some ironite after hooliday, but not anymore.

And for the record, I wasn't afected by this shi_, but this is an extremly inapropriate manner to treat custumers and I can't support such a company.

Muzzleloader
03-02-2019, 08:26 PM
You can disable their passive and they can take on negative buffs.

4V1ct0ry
03-02-2019, 08:53 PM
I can confirm what Alvorada is saying.
Alexander was suddenly taking silver effects during the NotB...

Anyways... back to the main topic
I'm just a middle player and I spend any cash so far.... I find the pricing way to crazy most of the times.
But I feel this is forcing players to spend.
Especially with the increasing of gold...
Also I can imagine the frustration of most of the players here when you see your precious stack beeing cut in half.

I personally find the addition of toons that are almost unbeatable spoil the fun a bit plus making some PvP battles taking unnecessary long. So adding talismans that can do the same? Really? Then how do players need to reach their next 200 wins for an event if it taked 15 minutes or more? We just have 24 hours in a day in where we also need to do other things....

I like the game... I have patients, so if I can't get something instantly I can wait... that's the downside of not spending cash.
But please don't force us since this will only backfire.

And it has been brought up a lot of times also.... if the prices would not be that freaking crazy then more players would spend. Maybe even me...

Amarthir
03-02-2019, 09:01 PM
I can move on from the fragment changes. It's the gold price changes that have really gotten under my skin this time.

Also I noticed the Beast is 3,500 again. Guess they were just playing cocktease weren't they?

Muzzleloader
03-02-2019, 09:19 PM
The increased frag exchange rate is reasonable due to the increased ways to earn frags. The possible loss of souls has hit everyone differently. The increased gold cost will definetly hurt newer players the most, but the days of perpetual or extended sacs may have come to an end. Th last sac event ended with only 50K gold for a tier V sac, that only covers to rare souls.

Now anyone who is sitting on stacks of souls will need to open their piggyback to feed the slot machime.

HuckFinn150
03-02-2019, 10:18 PM
I'm not buying gold to make sacrifices. I guess I'm not going to pull souls as much. I need to evolve my toons talismams before I start trying to expand . I'm not seeking any new toons. I know others still need this, but for me only sitting at 7 million in gold, I just can't afford to pull souls, unless there's one I must have (I don't see one come). I don't see that anytime soon.

Yup
03-02-2019, 10:30 PM
I can confirm what Alvorada is saying.
Alexander was suddenly taking silver effects during the NotB...


And Angel talismans on a character are NOT clearing red buffs each turn.
I've had FFE remain stunned for multiple turns in NOTB when he's wearing Angels.

Esquatcho
03-03-2019, 12:38 AM
And Angel talismans on a character are NOT clearing red buffs each turn.
I've had FFE remain stunned for multiple turns in NOTB when he's wearing Angels.

Yep, hasnt happened a heap luckily, but I've definitely seen it happen occasionally in arena too where my alchemist with angels stays stunned or others.

Zantarath
03-03-2019, 02:26 AM
@Rags

We agreed on something! yay (which shows how far the dev's gone this time when Rags agreed with a asshat like myself{no this is not a joke i'm not a very nice person})

@Everyone
The new Pharoh Eddie is quite excellent
He's no FFE but he's quite close to runner up

The lost of Hunt is sad but the rest is quite golden

thealchemist
03-03-2019, 04:32 AM
I logged into the forums for the first time in awhile purely because I too noticed the changes to soul fragment conversion. This update post was posted no more than 3 days ago about the next future update which in the past would take at least a week to push through. This seemed to be pushed through within 48 hrs if not less which must be some kind of record for the devs. Normally that wouldn't be a problem but when you make a significant change to a resource that creates an issue. How they have handled this has been poor and that is putting it mildly. I don't think this would have happened back in the days of Sparton....this should have been handled like when they made the change to the trooper store and how often you could purchase items. They gave us a BIG heads up and told us to spend your trooper badges while you could. This time? This initial post with no real valuable information of what changes were to be made and when, and suddenly bam! the change is made and lots of people are left with less than they had before.

I am pretty fortunate in that I didn't have too many frags stockpiled of the soul types that have been effected. I could have claimed a couple of w/m/s rare class souls each but now can't claim even one. I also only had 20 legendary frags as I tend to claim them as soon as I get them, same with standard rare, so I am unaffected there. I had 3140 mythical soul fragments, which before was almost enough for 7, but now still enough to claim 6 so that hasn't really impacted me. So yeah this personally hasn't really hurt me right now but I am still annoyed. I can only imagine what it must be like for those of you who have been really screwed over.

I could deal with a fragment increase but such a dramatic increase for legendary (250% increase) and class specific rares including G/A which have increased 300%! just seems way too steep to me. Legendary and G/A rares were the best means to get new characters but was still hard enough with each new character added to dilute the pool (I'm still chasing A. Derby Demon and G. Shinobi as example). When you consider the sacrifice reward changes as well these 2 souls are so much hard to get and you need A LOT of them to get a new character. So I am not digging these changing at the moment.

It just leaves me thinking for those of us who have been playing for some time and are chasing only a handful of particular characters.....
the only soul you need is.....the heroic soul.......the heroic soul (couldn't resist lol)
I just wish the heroic soul rotations would reflect the influx of new characters better....they sure love making us wait :/


I hope they make some events where we can earn gold during our usual grind possible. But I doubt it as gold seems to be something they see as a means to earn money for the machine...

SamFisher3000
03-03-2019, 10:48 AM
Hello there!

I read the forums since day one but prefer to keep my opinion to myself. Not this time.

In my opinion the fragment change was forseeable. The previous sac event felt like exploiting the game. In 2017 the Feb sac event was really great so I started to prepare in time. Saved all 15 Lunar souls and 20M gold.
At the beginning of the event I had around 50 Legendary souls 2 Sentinel Myths and 50 heroic souls. Didn't have to spend money and finished with 4 warrior 4 magus 5 sentinel 7 regular and 2 heroic myths, 104 legendary souls and around 250 heroic rares.
Mostly because cashing in 10 rare souls now give you an epic soul so only gold was a real limit during the event.

People who can't claim their frags due to inventory limits probably have every obtainable char already and insane amount of souls for future events so the frag change could be justified if we could earn every future chars through normal souls.
But nowadays they only release useful toons that event exclusive and might come back in heroic rotations in the future or not at all (dunno if we will see Samurai Emperor ever again...maybe for 5000 frontier coins)
This way they still force players to spend because the non-heroics for long time players are only good for sac events.

So in my opinion losing stacks because of this change wouldn't be a big problem but the book of souls gold prices should be in balance with this. If they tripled the frag cost for souls they should cut the prices around 40-50% and not increase it further.
I don't think they will lose long time players over this but in the current state the new changes could be gamebreaker for many.

Tim28213
03-03-2019, 02:30 PM
Can anyone post how much the soul redemption costs have gone up? Old vs new cost?

Zantarath
03-03-2019, 02:59 PM
Can anyone post how much the soul redemption costs have gone up? Old vs new cost?
Around double the cost

scott-5496
03-03-2019, 04:45 PM
WOW, though I would see what ewas going on in here and just WOW.

This has to be one of the biggest errors in judgment ever on this game - nips Cyborg Monday easily (LOL).

To change the frags that way you did was very underhand indeed - the tuning notes should not carry a date for distribution as a core piece opf information for us.

Another key thing only a tiny fraction of players are on here or a facebook page so why not put these in the news feed asap so that we can all read it in game - i have no idea why this cannot be done as this has to be the easiest way to communicate to all players - log in and find out straight away. Theh no one is screwed as all you need todo it is log in each day or get into a regime of logging in and out a few times a day.

To screw people who have loads of frags stting is utterly lame and well just very underhand. Surely you see this?


The biggest thing for me though (not by far) is the hike in gold costs for sacking - this is a joke to long time players whose only really chance to get the one or two missing characters is to wait for sac events and hit them hard every time - you guys are screwing that for a lot of us. Is there any real point in doing major sac hoards as we can only do one or two vortex now unless we have shel loads of gold. All of this too when you are not increasing gold in the cosmos battles - what is that all about. You are taking while not giving back surely and how is that going to keep players happy?


I try to be positive as ever with this game and yes iuts just a game but this is like worse than a double whammy to us players. The that daft 3500 or 3000 no 3500 cost for The Beast - what on earth is that all about? Can you guys see how thi slooks from the outside looking in. Nothing has been done right at all with this update - communications have been terrible, people get angry, put out another update and more folk angry.


It looks to me like there is no care at all given to this game - more bugs by the looks of it too and yet we keep coming back for more....because we love the band, the music and are addicted to playing the game. Still lots to like in the game but for the love of **** please think things through a bit more - dont hit is with a s**t stick more then a few times each update = spread the pain and if dealing pain provide some ointment with it (like increasing gold from PVE battles to double what it is just now for example).

I play this game every single day of my life so please be nice to all of us who do the same - we are keeping you in a job and all we want is to be treated with some respect as a customer - maybe even a little love here and there, especially for us old farts that have been here forever. What have you got against us? What have you got that says this is the way to take the game - starting to wonder if the main powers that be (shareholders) are putting on some pressure to see an upturn in profit? Who knows!

Please guys please just try to think a bit more about your actions - poor communication really do annoy us all. Being 100% ripped off annoys us. Having game resource so heavily tampered with annoys us. getting very little back but more bugs and less resources annoys us. Reading loads of negative posts frustrates us as it seems no one is listening...and no, ironite does not help at all it is a short term gesture which in the end clearly costs you nothing.

As I have said before I am worried about the future of the game - my only light was devs opening up use of blood frags so I could get KB - I am sure a lot of us did (I only had to buy a three pack ot make it up) but the overall sense of the game is not ideal at the moment...maybe we will all get over this but it has to be hit after hit after hit of the last few days that rankles me the most

scott-5496
03-03-2019, 04:49 PM
Around double the cost

Is it double? I have not even looked at this but I am sorry that is utterly stupid and utterlky without foundation - double the cost? Jeez these devs have no idea at all what they are doing - gradual hurts less and gets the same outcome in the end but do it over time not just a double hit to the head!

Again if they do it this way then do the same for what you win farming - NotB should be 20k gold per battle etc etc.....that would ease the pain somewhat but still is not ideal.

rags-6094
03-03-2019, 07:12 PM
There is no equality here and there will never be it's a business people! This whole game relies on the same methods used in gambling casinos and such like, we are the willing participants or victims, call it what you will.
Pay a little pay a lot, spend some time in game, spend many hours each day in game or just enough to do your troopers, either way they've got us by the short and curly's because we love everything about the band especially The music and Eddie.
So now I've had 24 more hours to digest what's happened, other forum members have already touched on this but it is true that the majority of long term daily players will already have most characters and the regular souls from rare to mythical won't cut it or guarantee you will get that new toon, some heroics may cut it in time. I think the hard part will be spending 100,000 gold for a mythical and not getting the 5* Eddie or character your hoping for...

There was a definate stuff up during the last sac event of which I for one took great advantage of, it would not surprise me if someone's head rolled over that stuff up (from a business perspective).

We saw during that sac event a 180 degree backflip and now more efforts from them to recoup the lost revenue through gold and soul frags, as they have said - it is not all bad, frag drops for the souls effected have increased, if you were a new player you wouldn't know any different so there would be no harm done, for the rest of us - the cost of being a pioneer perhaps? It is not the first time and it won't be the last time, the question is how much will the individual take before he finally gets off the LOTB ride?

kkkreg5
03-03-2019, 08:00 PM
How can you definitively say that the last event WAS a "stuff up" and that you or I benefited from it Rags? It's clear to me that they continually release bugged events without testing. They have no one to blame but themselves for that.

We are all willing participants, but as customers, we have some control. As many others have said, speak with your wallets. I've spent far too much on this that will never return. The company will hear the voices of the many.

rags-6094
03-03-2019, 08:20 PM
Yeah your right we do speak through our wallets but we do that knowing the game and it's inconsistencys before we spend don't we..?
I believe there was a shift in the way the sac event presented itself to us as the customer, drop rates changed, overnight there seemed to be a great change in how much gold it cost, in the first 24 to 48 hours you could virtually sacrifice and leave your gold stack even, what I mean is whatever you spent you got back through winnings and drops etc..
Then later the gold drops decreased and there was a noticeable decrease in the gold stack..

Skill shards and heart drops didn't change but the likely hood of getting a quality soul drop or gold drop was far decreased.
So for such a noticeable change to happen during an event would mean a mistake was made or at very least an amendment was made when someone noticed how easily people were acquiring quality items..

R1ck
03-03-2019, 08:43 PM
I would prefer they remove precious souls and gold from sacrifice rewards and keep gold summoning requirement as before.
The change in sacrifice rewards were supposed to be a little more beneficial for us. But after all these changes it has been more harmful for players.

Warlord
03-03-2019, 08:46 PM
Read the whole thread.. And I'm not even going Complain because I't wont due any good. they just turn a deaf Ear. Looks like It be awhile before I use real money on the game again.. Very Low Move, another big FU to us...

Blade
03-03-2019, 09:12 PM
Read the whole thread.. And I'm not even going Complain because I't wont due any good. they just turn a deaf Ear. Looks like It be awhile before I use real money on the game again.. Very Low Move, another big FU to us...

It will get even worse if you see the chronics:

02-28-2019, 07:14 PM
Kaz opens the PRILIMINARY update and discussion thread

people start analysing and in particular discussing the new Talis AND the fragment change, e.g.
02-28-2019, 09:27 PM Zamasu wrote:
@Kaz

At least we should get a warning before the changes in soul fragments happen. That way we can decide whether we want to claim our souls or not. that's only fair to us player. are the fragments required to claim a soul being increased? if so, by how much?

02-28-2019, 09:50 PM, answer from Kaz:
They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.

-Kaz

some more discussion and more people asked about details about the changes, i.e. my post some hours later:
03-01-2019, 05:29 PM
I am really confused now with these changes. Could you please share a clear list with us showing which type of frags will be affected? This would be really great and helpful, and highly appreciated! Thanks!

There was no answer for this one but about the Prisoner bug from Kaz at
03-01-2019, 06:21 PM

03-01-2019, 06:14 PM
Scott opens this thread: New Game Data 01/03/2019 click here (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?11518-New-Game-Data-01-03-2019&highlight=data)
This "New Game Data" was the update!

This was before Kaz's post about the Prisoner

--> the update was pushed right within the discussion and 23 h after the PRELIMINARY update info was released.

WastingYears81
03-03-2019, 09:16 PM
I don't usually comment on the actions of NF, but the frag value change feels like a very bad decision, and the way it's been done is very underhand. The speed of update just says that they hoped to do it before anyone questioned what the changes were. The update notes were clearly intended to hide what was being done.

Kaz gave answers when asked, but if the question wasn't asked then NF would not have been forthcoming with the details. They could easily have listed the old and new rates. On the face of it rare g/a souls have gone from 50 to 150 per soul, leg from 100 to 250 - these are more than minor tweaks.

What I don't get as part of this is what the point of doing this, beyond annoying the players what does it really deliver in terms of the gameplay or experience. Maybe NF can give a clear list of the changed rates (old and new), and what benefit this change gives the game, or why this change was felt needed (if I've missed this already please point me to the info)

infinite dreamer
03-04-2019, 01:43 AM
Can anyone post how much the soul redemption costs have gone up? Old vs new cost?

Another thing I was wondering is that since the gold went up to redeem souls, shouldn't we receive more gold in return when we sell stuff back to offset it a bit (like the gold idols)? Hypothetically, they're worth more now, no?

Muzzleloader
03-04-2019, 02:11 AM
I would say they wont raise any gold rewards. This is a good way to control sacrifices by making gold a precious commodity in the game. Now you will need to grind more just to pay to redeem souls. The same way the cut back the gold rewards during the last sacrifice event.

Nifelheim
03-04-2019, 02:15 AM
, I would suggest raising the value of souls to make viable to sell or sacrifice souls, or selling for gold before putting in the book of souls.

Saigrim
03-04-2019, 04:07 AM
I don’t think people are getting the real picture here with the suggestions that they do this or that. They are moving the game to a point where unless you are dropping some cash on a monthly, if not per event basis, you are not getting shit. Pure and simple. So get your wallets out, do your dailies, hoard what you can, and choose your battles.

I’ve been paying attention to all the little hidden “tweaks” for awhile now. They were being subtle about it. Not so much anymore.

Yup
03-04-2019, 04:27 AM
https://youtu.be/6DGNZnfKYnU

HeadOnFire
03-04-2019, 06:26 AM
the problem is that the devs have to earn money for the company, so you have to make players chase things they want. since the game was pretty unbalanced for quite some time now i don't expect anything to change. if they release an middish/okayish toon/talisman who would care or spend because of it? people will only pay if you offer them things that will improve their strength. so the wheel will be spinning endlessly

i think the truth is that there is no way back, either you take it or you leave. the toons will get even stronger and talismans too. rlease an OP team and sell the players the counter after a few weeks. that seems to be the way to earn money in these games. (it's also the same in strike force btw) that said i do feel lotb is a bit out of control with all these crazy mechanics like avoiding damage or random nomal, silver and golden buffs/debuffs.

but i cannot see an escape there so we have to deal with it.

And therein lies the problem with "freemium" games. The presence of micro-transactions prevent balance (as well as challenge, skill, or depth) from the very start. Legacy of the Beast should have been a fully-fledged console/PC game that you just buy for however much regular video games cost these days (I think it's still $60, but I haven't bought a new game in a while).

The root of the problem with LotB -- as with all freemium games -- is that they aren't actually designed for players to advance through their own skill or understanding of the game. It's simply an endless cycle of releasing objectively superior items over time while charging (as much or more) money for each new release than an entire complete game would normally cost. Just look at the store: you can literally spend $100 for a single 5* character and a stack of currency to upgrade it.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that the new and recent changes have been "un-Maiden like," which is undeniably true. But I doubt the members of Iron Maiden are much of gamers, being pretty old guys and having lots of other stuff going on in their lives, in addition to the band itself. So obviously you can't blame them. They just signed on to grant rights to a game developer, and they don't play any role in its development other than artistic design. This game, like all other "free-to-play" games will continue to progress in the same way, and there's no reason to expect otherwise. Don't wait for it; it just isn't the nature of this product. As long as a large enough minority of gamers are willing to shell out literally hundreds of dollars for a small portion of a game, the gaming industry will keep taking their money and offering the same incomplete, cyclical content. Sad But True.


5328

Esquatcho
03-04-2019, 06:33 AM
As someone who very, very rarely spends money on the game, I feel comfortable knowing that Im not going to get everything possible and be at a disadvantage.

In fact, I would say that those who play free at the moment actually have it pretty good in this game. We can compete reasonably well towards the top levels, chars take a heck of a lot of grinding, but you can do it and still get many of the inflationary characters if youre a bit lucky on the day.

Sure some things like the sudden change of the souls shard costs were the pits, but personally I think its entirely reasonable to expect you to pay a bit to get everything in the game (or wait a while and have to invest a heap of time to get it).

HeadOnFire
03-04-2019, 06:37 AM
As someone who very, very rarely spends money on the game, I feel comfortable knowing that Im not going to get everything possible and be at a disadvantage.

In fact, I would say that those who play free at the moment actually have it pretty good in this game. We can compete reasonably well towards the top levels, chars take a heck of a lot of grinding, but you can do it and still get many of the inflationary characters if youre a bit lucky on the day.

Sure some things like the sudden change of the souls shard costs were the pits, but personally I think its entirely reasonable to expect you to pay a bit to get everything in the game (or wait a while and have to invest a heap of time to get it).

Yeah, I agree with the overall idea of what you're saying. It's just that games like this charge more for a small portion of content than you could expect to pay for a fully developed, complete game on a PC or console.
Iron Maiden could be much, much better represented in a video game than this pathetic scheme has done.

I would gladly spend money on an Iron Maiden game, but paying every month just to keep up with a meta that changes constantly and arbitrarily is completely.... I can't think of the right adjective right now. Dammit, I had something for this!




5329

Liu
03-04-2019, 07:57 AM
I wonder if we will ever be able to get rid of our soul stacks with the increased cost and devalued gold return of the pit and inflated soul return ... I've got a lot of souls atm, I don't think I will ever be able to reduce the stack significantly. Actually I feel what they want to happen is for us to hit the stack limit without being able to get new souls due to the limit ...

Blade
03-04-2019, 08:51 AM
Finally some more South Park reference! That episode is so great! So everyone who does not know it, watch it immediately! "Freemium isn't free" from 2014.
The guys always had a good knack for picking up current topics and pushing them to the top with the necessary humour. This is very well done here again. The connection to other addictions is ingenious and the two-step explanation like pay-2-win works aswell. For those who are not familiar with SP: Terrence and Phillip are 2 movie/comedy stars and in their name a freemium game appears. Exchange those two with our beloved musicians and here you are! Enjoy!

As many others I just play that game because of Iron Maiden and as there is no alternative. I don't like these freemium games in general and if Maiden decides to do another real PC game without that lootbox/dlc/pay2win crap, I would be the first to pre-order!

scott-5496
03-04-2019, 09:51 AM
Finally some more South Park reference! That episode is so great! So everyone who does not know it, watch it immediately! "Freemium isn't free" from 2014.
The guys always had a good knack for picking up current topics and pushing them to the top with the necessary humour. This is very well done here again. The connection to other addictions is ingenious and the two-step explanation like pay-2-win works aswell. For those who are not familiar with SP: Terrence and Phillip are 2 movie/comedy stars and in their name a freemium game appears. Exchange those two with our beloved musicians and here you are! Enjoy!

As many others I just play that game because of Iron Maiden and as there is no alternative. I don't like these freemium games in general and if Maiden decides to do another real PC game without that lootbox/dlc/pay2win crap, I would be the first to pre-order!

Me too. I had the old game on PC but it is super dated but it was still a cool game at the time and for a few years after - but it died on me and the disk was loaned to someone and never returned in a playable format! So a new PC game would be great and I would defo play that - but they will never do that as that is not where any money is for a game based on Maiden. Too niche to be worth it hence the freemium mobile game - as that can continue to make money when the customer base is hard core fans and collectors.

At the moment I have spent a fair bit on the game over the years I have played it - looking back I would say around £10 a month on average...maybe a little more - because I can and I am usualy happy to pay for something I play a lot, which I do for sure though 90% auto of course!

Probably will continue to play on in the same sort of way but clearly the sac events are not going to be the glut they used to be - so I will just have to chnage how I play a bit as I am not willing to spend anymore that I have in the past for a game that is not working all that well and where players like me are not really the market - they need money and I will always get that but this will always be an issue for a developer where one game is there lot - I dont think they do anythign else so really this game is their bottle neck in terms of keeping the light son and they have to keep feeding the beast with new stuff.


The biggest issue is where they find new players as I am sure, what with the recent tour being branded the way it was, very strongly linked to the game, that most of the core Maiden fan base is aware of the game and if they have not tried it by now when will they try it? There is the second leg of the tour of course but once that is done the next potential push would be either a new album and/or a greatest hits (I see a new greatest hits as a real possibility and it being based on this tour set plus others) and then other tours but that cant really do another LOTB tour as it will likely be a new album tour after that is released. With all of that in mind maybe the game will then need to change direction again to make sure money comes in from what wil be old timers from the LOTB tour intake?


The things they have talked about doing make sense with that in mind - they need to release proper new stuff like guilds and other changes they have mentioned as I think the current player numbers will be all but maxed out frm the recent tour activity.

Blade
03-04-2019, 04:33 PM
You're probably right and there won't be a new PC game. The band itself won't care much and the money won't matter to them either. The people from the management and the marketing are responsible for it and of course (unfortunately) they smell the big money, which can only be earned in this modern freemium way. Very sad, but true.

I have spent since there is the game a total of 82 €. I had spent this out of joy about the game, appreciation for the ideas and graphical implementation and as a donation to the developers. But those days are definitely over and I'm "ashamed" to have spent more on it than on e.g. The Witcher 3 or GTA 5. No further cent will be added as long as the developers continue to lie to us and are characterized by bad communication, unfair measures, lack of bug fixes and insidious actions (hoping no one would notice).

The game would have deserved a much larger fan base, which could probably change the price system. Then it would probably work with micropay as well, with relatively few people it would remain the macropay of individual players who have developed a big addiction (consciously or unconsciously). I sincerely hope that anyone who invests large amounts of money can afford it and that nobody will get into trouble with it. As the person responsible, I would have a guilty conscience about aligning my economic model exactly with this and would rather take all the mirrors off the walls. Brave new world!
To attract more people, the feedback would have to be much better and everyone I tell about how much you have to play (albeit on autopilot) to achieve anything, just shake their heads. Understandable - I wouldn't know if I would get in at this point and stay with it. After all, our love for the band keeps us all here.

The last changes were worrying and partly frightening, especially in the way they were implemented. So the game is at a crossroads and too many mistakes may not be made anymore, otherwise it will be overdue. The thought had already caused me more worries than now. There's no actual end anyway until the last servers are switched off. Maybe I'll take a week off at work and try to get to number one in the arena. Owning all characters would be another goal, but due to the many new characters from event souls this goal is not achievable. When else do you say goodbye? Probably only for negative reasons, and there have been plenty of them lately.

We'll see what happens next and whether it's possible to continue to be successful with good resource management and the resurrection of some temptations. I have succeeded well so far I would say with relatively little investment. The next challenges will come and we can try and meet them. Gold management seems to be the next hurdle.

I know you shouldn't take it so seriously, it's just a game, and that would be good for all of us. But for many of us it's been a faithful companion for years and you don't give up things you've built up over a long period of time (like legendary soul fragments...I'm still not over it).

Let's have a watchful eye for what happens. I am curious but unfortunately more scepticism is necessary than I would like. Stay strong! Up the Irons!