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View Full Version : The problem with 5-set talismans.



GrimDusk
05-05-2019, 07:28 PM
As of late, the game has been pushing out new 5-set talismans which give very impressive powerups to whatever toon they are placed on. The issue is, none of these 5-star talisman sets are balanced. At all.

There was a time when Primordial Talismans were classified as "too powerful," and were actually the center of a huge controversy when they were nerfed. However, even the pre-nerf primordial talismans are nothing compared to the 5-set talismans we have been fighting against in the arena as of late. There are 3 sets in particular which are bullshit no matter who you're fighting: Labyrinth, Viper, and Alchemy. These 3 have basically caused a new meta to occur in which there is no way to counter a team which has these, especially if you fight certain characters with them equipped. Viper talismans have made Charlotte, Killers Eddie, Magus Derby Demon, and Daedalus a major pain in the ass whenever you face off against them. They inflict a massive amount of debuffs, cause the toon to repeatedly counter strike, and also reduce damage more than Fortune and Destiny Talismans. These were easy to obtain, sure, however they aren't fair to fight against in any meaning of the sense. Labyrinth talismans have made Set and the Raven Witch the worst things to exist since Assassin Banshee and Blue Lilith were part of the meta, as they basically make them impossible to damage. In addition, the Alchemist can equip Labyrinth talismans and basically become an unstoppable war machine. Alchemy Talismans are also a pain in the ass as they essentially make it so the other two talisman sets can't be countered; you can't stun a toon with Viper talismans if one of their teammates is sporting Alchemy Talismans. Not only this, but the 5-set talismans also leave room for a Cosmic talisman which just boosts the toons even further.

6-set talismans are basically obsolete in the game now, as none of them come close to being able to outclass the 5-set talismans in any way. Eclipse and Oracle are garbage, Valor can be useful in only very certain situations, and Eternal and Primordial are the only two which have any real chance of fighting anything off in the current meta. It's really a shame; you should feel like placing a 6 set of talismans on your toon will make him the most buffed, however they're actually detrimental in every situation. In addition there have also been a few 4 set talismans which are quite powerful, but really the 5-sets are the worst to deal with. I think that either every 5 set talisman should be nerfed a bit, or every 6 set should be buffed to make up for the huge power gap. Right now, the meta is just garbage and there's no real way for newer players to enjoy the arena or the gauntlet when facing off against teams with insane amounts of power. Hell, the FC talismans aren't any good either, and they cost the most! I hope that the devs have something planned, or else we're going to see a new meta which cannot be dealt with.

wipp
05-05-2019, 07:41 PM
I have never had a problem against lab. Or alc. Tals. Those vipers are very powerful tho. A match that used to take 40 secs is now a 10 min fight with alot more draws. The key tho is like u said, we all have them. I think this may actually help players to rank without having to spend 2000 ironite.less battles and lower scores at the top of the chart

GrimDusk
05-05-2019, 07:43 PM
I have never had a problem against lab. Or alc. Tals. Those vipers are very powerful tho. A match that used to take 40 secs is now a 10 min fight with alot more draws. The key tho is like u said, we all have them. I think this may actually help players to rank without having to spend 2000 ironite.less battles and lower scores at the top of the chart

It's really not Alchemy or Lab alone that do the job, however when you get those also added to a toon with Viper talismans it can cause a match to pretty much immediately fail for me at least. Who do you use on your offensive team? I'm running Angel Eddie, KP, Charlotte, and KB. And again, part of the issue is that these entirely outrank 6 set talismans. That shouldn't be the case at all.

wipp
05-05-2019, 07:48 PM
I switch between teams depending on who im playing but my number one offence is alex with vipers, charolet with vipers, kb with dom. And kp with reapers

wipp
05-05-2019, 07:51 PM
And yes i see your point with 5 sets over powering 6 sets. I think they are trying to get the cosmics in play tho

GrimDusk
05-05-2019, 07:54 PM
I switch between teams depending on who im playing but my number one offence is alex with vipers, charolet with vipers, kb with dom. And kp with reapers

See, you paid for a second set of Vipers and the Reapers. In order to even come close to you in offense, I'd have to spend more on the game. That's also an issue, however that's been one for a while so that's not really a main focus here.

wipp
05-05-2019, 07:59 PM
Yes i usually spend on new tals because i dont want to miss out on a game changing talsman but i have baught more than my share of duds over tge yrs. I actually powered up those april fools ones lol

Ip4
05-05-2019, 08:00 PM
boring times come to this game,no character are important no relics it's everything about 5 set talismans,look for example in gauntlet SSS battle all 4 characters have this talismans but this characters are nothing special and few of them are old...i am not active playing game like before because this thing...

Amarthir
05-05-2019, 08:41 PM
I was never competitive in the first place, only time you see me in the top ranks is when there's an event like this going on and yeah it gets pretty annoying when you have to fight Set with Labyrinth, or Madam with Alchemy, or both.

Don't have anything to say about Gauntlet, I usually just go to AAA or S and call it good.

I agree that 5 sets shouldn't be better than 6 sets considering how hard it is to get 6 sets anyways.. and out of all of them, eclipse needs a boost the most. Oracle's are kinda okay, maybe switch to Perfect Health and change the way it transfers debuffs and they'd be really good. Primordials can be reverted to how they were before and it wouldn't change a thing about them. Valor are good I guess. And eternals are just inconvenient especially since lots of the new characters can very easily remove damage block buffs.

The saving Grace in all this is that no talismans that have ever been released have been specifically locked behind paywalls. They're always released to the public in some event or store addition.


What I think matters most in this game right now is that older characters and Talismans need to be buffed to keep up with the newer characters and Talismans. Namely stuff like paralysis and freeze Talismans, and like 90% of the 4 and 5* characters that were released before 2018.

Yup
05-06-2019, 12:37 AM
Viper's aren't really a problem here.. unless there's 2 sets on an enemies team. Then, yeah more draws. But, You also have to use a team that can counter the Vipers.. ala.. Labyrinth, alchemy, fortune. etc on your team.

PvP has always been a bit stale in my opinion.. just wash, rinse, repeat. ad infinitum. If something is overpowered, it'll be replaced by the next overpowered item. 5 sets may be better than 6 sets.. but T5 cosmics are going to be better than existing cosmics... it's the nature of thee type of "fremium games".

And at least the devs have made a GOOD change by making the events now count all battles rather than only wins.

Muzzleloader
05-06-2019, 01:31 AM
It is nice that all battles count toward the goal, but by doubling the amount needed just made it more costly in ironite. Going from 200 wins to 400 battles the increase for someone with a low win rate of 70 % is 140 more battles or 420 ironite if you need to purchase them all.

That means either cut out playing gauntlet or purchase SoW. It would be generous if they run the arena event after a proper dungeon or proper sac event, to allow us to accumulate in late some SoW.

The question is, is it better to play 200 battles and then purchase the two remaining talisman or play all 400 battles. Even If you lose most battles on purpose it is very time consuming g.

Amarthir
05-06-2019, 01:38 AM
It is nice that all battles count toward the goal, but by doubling the amount needed just made it more costly in ironite. Going from 200 wins to 400 battles the increase for someone with a low win rate of 70 % is 140 more battles or 420 ironite if you need to purchase them all.

That means either cut out playing gauntlet or purchase SoW. It would be generous if they run the arena event after a proper dungeon or proper sac event, to allow us to accumulate in late some SoW.

The question is, is it better to play 200 battles and then purchase the two remaining talisman or play all 400 battles. Even If you lose most battles on purpose it is very time consuming g.

I believe it's SLIGHTLY cheaper to play the extra 200 battles, and you get more "rewards" by playing as well instead of just only 2 Talismans.

But you wouldn't lose much or miss out if you just bought them

Stormseye
05-06-2019, 04:59 AM
I have to say that despite these new sets being quite powerful they are no where near as over powered as Primordials were when the arrived in the game. There was nothing like them before. They were the first game changing talismans. The mere mention of having them returned to their original status would cause a pretty significant shift.

What is different now, as a few have pointed out, is that all these new sets are available to anyone who is willing to spend some resources to earn them and if you like them you can buy them as well. Though I donít support moving this game entirely to a pay to win system I like the opportunity to buy more if I want it.

i have bought most sets and some shine and some donít thats the nature of the game.

What I am glad to see is, with the influx of so many new sets and so many new characters, is better blend of characters in Arena builds. Though many are similar almost every team has itís own flair. I am glad to see the days of the 10 fights of the exact same team are gone. Be it Iron Eddie with Primordial Prisoner or Hallowed Eddie with Sekhmet or FFE with KP/Prisoner. There are no perfect teams anymore. These 5 set talismans are the cause of that change.

GrimDusk
05-08-2019, 05:45 PM
What I am glad to see is, with the influx of so many new sets and so many new characters, is better blend of characters in Arena builds. Though many are similar almost every team has it’s own flair. I am glad to see the days of the 10 fights of the exact same team are gone. Be it Iron Eddie with Primordial Prisoner or Hallowed Eddie with Sekhmet or FFE with KP/Prisoner. There are no perfect teams anymore. These 5 set talismans are the cause of that change.

I actually have to disagree there; the most recent builds in PvP have consisted of 1 constant character, Killer Prime (some people don't run him but the majority do because of his amazing passive), 3 Eddies (Gambler, Angel, and Final Frontier), and two other slots which can be rotated but generally are either a warrior who can equip Viper talismans (Charlotte) and either a Labyrinth or Alchemy talisman runner. I think that there is some diversity, however the builds have generally remained the same, and I already know that when Necropolis hits the scene he's probably going to replace Charlotte as the Viper talisman user, because he's absolutely insane looking as of now.

Daviangers
05-08-2019, 10:17 PM
Alchemy talismans arent really that much of an issue because of not removing silver effects...I usually just prefer the alchemist himself. Cleansing non-silver effects, or even preventing stuns, is relatively easy these days so.

Labyrnth talismans arent too bad unless they have multiple sets, then its just plain stupid.

Viper are being nerfed fortunately but theyre currently the best warrior set in the game for those who can equip them, if I had multiple sets Id use all of them regardless of situation, so thats saying a *lot*

Daviangers
05-08-2019, 10:42 PM
I have to disagree about things being impossible for relatively new players, except for relics...the lower grade ones need a price drop, badly. They do give out ironite much more freely these days though.

Defense you pretty much do need to have played a long time, but I used to regularly get to warlord off of offense alone, with my shitty 20% ish defense rating lol. Plus defense doesnt get you iron coins.
(Off of Offense is fun to say lol)

Attacking though isnt nearly as bad as people make it out to be. First of all, by the time the weeks a little over halfway through all the strong players are hanging out in the high ranks anyway, and you wont run into them as much (just avoid the ones you do see, use refresh when its available, attack from the defense screen for more options while you wait). 2nd, the change in arena quests to include losses is a big step forward, so theres that. And lastly I have a lot of "advanced" toons and talis but I still pretty much stick with the old reliables and do fine...most of which can be earned guaranteed from fragments, sacrifice, iron coins, troopers etc. I also use a lot of 4 stars still.

Yup
05-09-2019, 12:56 AM
So why is using multiple sets of Labyrinth "stupid" but multiple sets of Vipers is good? 2 Labyrinth sets actually counteract multiple Viper sets nicely.

And if the Alchemist is stunned, frozen or asleep. he ain't doin' anything...... but Alchemy talismans will still cleanse the team.

Just saying different strokes is all.

Esquatcho
05-09-2019, 08:47 AM
I personally am spewing I didnt have a chop to get some alchemy talismans :(

Natasmai
05-09-2019, 01:42 PM
So why is using multiple sets of Labyrinth "stupid" but multiple sets of Vipers is good? 2 Labyrinth sets actually counteract multiple Viper sets nicely.

And if the Alchemist is stunned, frozen or asleep. he ain't doin' anything...... but Alchemy talismans will still cleanse the team.

Just saying different strokes is all.

Alchemist with Labyrinth plus a toon with Alchemy is perfect. alchemy toon clears stuns and Alchemist clears silvers. Unfortunately I havent found a team I like that can run that setup plus double viper and a tank...

BJDGR-4010
05-24-2019, 03:17 PM
in my opinion the worst are the labyrinth talismans because its like a more powerful eclipse and that cannot be removed.nowadays the game has come way too complicated.You can waste up to 1 minute of in game battles(pvp) when facing an single ed with labyrinth they can really be a pain in the pass and just imagine fighting a whole team quipped with labyrinth,alchemy,viper,and now eternity.I got destroyed never made it to 3 rounds.they really should be nerfed because they are slowly ruining the game itself.it is quite unacceptable that 5 set tals are better than 6 set.it simply doesn't make any sense since we only can have 6 talismans per character.