August 2019, Part 1 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Kaz_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?12060-August-2019-Part-1-Tuning-PRELIMINARY&p=102960#post102960).

[Amarthir]

I'll tell ya what WOULD be nice.

If it didn't cost 15 SoT a pop to go into a dungeon that I have to play 300 to 1000 times in an hour just to get a character that has a decent passive but an extremely outdated skill set who does less than mediocre damage.

I spent a four day weekend grinding to all hell to get the Beast and Trooper Eddie reskins. Went from almost 3,000 ironite and 6 or 7 thousand frontier coins to less than 500 ironite and under 5k frontier coins. And thanks for upping the drop rate of reaper talismans AFTER I spent the 900 ironite to get the set I couldn't get from over 400 runs.

Of course, now that I have the characters and the talismans featured I can't wait to never play those levels again because the Sands of Time cost is too damn high for mediocre rewards. It would be so much better if it were 5 or 6 or even like, 8. But 15 is awful and embarrassing. Remember why nobody wanted to play Brave New World in the beginning? Because it cost 15 SoT and the rewards were non-existent.

Someone mentioned that we needed another SoT increase to combat all the draining frontier dungeons and I can't help but agree here. The only frontier key dungeon worth playing after achievements is the talisman key dungeon, the one you're only allowed to use natural 5* of one specific class for 15 SoT to get like 3 cosmic talisman fragments and some 2* Evo runes. I hope the reward tuning brings the other 70% of rewards into existence but I'm quite certain that I still won't be running the dungeon because 15 SoT is just..too..much..


Okay rant over.

[Metallicamilo]

I guess it is supposed to Be a long term goal. No need for hesitation.

So.. No character updates.. I expected a small update on some older eddies. Say viking eddie.

[GrimDusk]

This was a useless post to make.

[Alvorada]

I was expecting some love for gunner eddies, since the current gauntlet season is gunner-based, but it is not a must at all.

The new six set sounds very powerful, will change a lot of arena teams.

[URock]

Hahaha...1st they said: "No bug...everything is working fine!" and then they needed to adjust the droprates in Trooper AND Infernal Dungeon.
Sry, Navigator Frogs, but the prices of the store items are too high for a betatest that WE do for all of you! It's your work to do testing before adding new toons+talisman+dungeons into the game.
Sure, you need to earn money, but without a playerbase you won't earn enough! More and more players are frustrated and I believe they don't put anymore money into this game.

[kgk56]

I believe they don't put anymore money into this game.

Damn right ... I didn't spend money for weeks because I have enough ressources due to all the events ...

[scott-5496]

I kind of see this game as a 'we are in it together' kind of thing - or at least I think that the devs see it this way or why would it play like it does. They have not got the people to test it fully and they dont have the team to get events out perfect - we all have to live with that I think is the general approach or they would try to do something about it that they are not currently doing. I just think they are a very small team and we are sort of. part of that team. It is clearly a bit more one sided as we tend not to get anything for 'free' here other than we can continue to play a buggy game where, lets face it, all of the ancient bugs and new bugs are a struggle for them to either find or find and fix. If they could fix Prisoner surely they would have? if they could fix reborn characters to continue to have their passives they would..surely? The list goes on. My view is that as they work with old code and took over a game that they can never fix the old stuff and have not got the team to check the new stuff. What they have to do is get the money in to keeop the game going in the hope that at soem point they can get to the bugs that annoy folk so much. So as ever for us players it is a waiting game that may never come.

What would be nice to see and it is easy and quick to do is to confirm all of this in the QA - are there bugs that cannot be fixed e.g. Prisoner/Passive Disable...if so just tell us...nice and easy. Can reborn characters on the attack team get their passives once they come back..or not? Pretty easy stuff to respond to I would have thought. Just be honest about where we are with this game devs - we want it to work, we all do or why would will stil be here. Just be open about the issues you guys are facing as a team trying to keep a game alive. If your current priority is X then tell us and we can leave the maoning while you prepr the game for a potential influx of new blood from the tour - that is fine. But just be open about it. Again, we want the game to last and live and develop - none of us want it to fail!

[Blade]

The small team thing is true for sure. Check them out on their page (https://navigatorgames.ca/) and you'll notice that they are ~25 people! I am not familiar with company sizes in the gaming business, but to me it seems to be a bit too small for a comparably complex mobile game!? Especially if 24 of them are great designers ;) But it seems to be the only game they have, but it would not surprise me if (at least the designers) also work for other companies.

You can also read an interesting interview about why Roadhouse (with about 150 people) failed back in the days here: https://venturebeat.com/2016/09/26/why-mobile-game-maker-roadhouse-interactive-ran-out-of-cash/.
Roadhouse was more experienced with mobile games as it reads. But still it did not work out. Those of us who are here long enough know, that the game was settled a bit different as there was not auto-reply and all this grinding. But mobile games need to develop, so we don't know if the game would be a lot different as it is now, if Roadhouse would have continued.

I have not found similar articles about the change from NF to Navigator.

Anyway, as Scott said, we all like the game. Because we love the band! And I think it is a shame that only these 20k people play (which we estimated recently) while there are millions of fans. The possbilities would increase a lot, if 10 or 100 times more people would play - and it would be well deserved!

But it is not the case and we need to deal with what we have. Yet I can't get rid of the feeling that they have exceeded their limits a bit with this game. By the way, they do have game testers and they seem(ed) to have a good work-life-balance, lol, as you can read in that article from August 2017: https://the-peak.ca/2017/08/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-game-tester/

About the update:
The reward tunings are totally overdue. Sorry for the guys that already did a lot of runs. There should be a compensation, but as we know from the past...there won't be any, or maybe a handfull of Ironite. But nobody can give you back the "wasted years".

The new talisman read awful in my perspective. Yes, they might be good for us players for quick farming and to beat some heavy dungeons, BUT Gauntlet and Arena will be an even bigger disaster as it is now.
I wouldn't need these totally exaggerated effects, but it seems to be the course of things, because after all something new has to be added again and again, which is better than the previous stuff. This keeps the hunt going and generates income. That's freemium. But where is it going to end? We will see... up the Irons!

[Fight4life]

Damn right ... I didn't spend money for weeks because I have enough ressources due to all the events ...

Shhhhh, they’ll probably nerf it in some way in the future, if you talk to loud about it... 😆

[URock]

Queston: when I got a small team why the hell should I publish so many new toons+talismans+events+dungeons when nobody can test the stuff? That's noob! Nobody of us asked for more useless toons or more events to burn our resources.
Next question: why hold on a bugged game engine instead of developing complete new engine?

PS: the droprates are never bugged. It's all about turning the screw high or low. No rocketscience just simple math.

[edsel]

The hi cost of recent key dungeons featuring reskinned furyless Eddies and General Whackoff was not worth the investment for me, played each dungeon once for 1st time rewards only. I love this game, built for the 1980's stoner who grew up with Maiden blasting loud. Hopeful this will continue for a long time and the upcoming tour generates a new wave of players eager to spend trying to catch up and get valuable resources. New and creative gameplay is being generated: class/character star restrictions, variety of new dungeons, constant talismans and characters to chase-although about 1 out of every 20 is actually useful. Sure there are problems but this is to be expected from any software. It crashes and I reload. A character/talisman misbehaves and so what? I get excited each morning when I fire up the phones and start my Legacy day, do what appeals to me, then set the phones charging overnight as I dream of team strategy and resource management. Good times. Definitely!

[Volrath]

Wow, that Orbit talisman seems really powerful. I get having certain characters immune to true damage but a whole team? Although lately we have lots of characters doing physical, magical and true damage one after the other so maybe it's not as overpowered as it might have been in the past.

[Yup]

I'm confused about the Gold/Silver/Bronze souls.. I've NEVER seen any of these... yet they have appeared in update notes for a few months now.. where exactly are they?

And what about those of us that have finished the Infernal dungeon and got ZERO Reaper talismans???? Are we expected to burn ungodly amounts of SOT and FC just for a POSSIBLE chance that the drop rate is now 0.75% rather than 0.5%???

[Intimidator]

I think the gold,silver and bronze medal souls are for the players that finish in the top 3 in the arena.

[Yup]

Oh okay.. that would make sense. Thanks Intimidator.

[Delegreg]

I think the gold,silver and bronze medal souls are for the players that finish in the top 3 in the arena.

Yeah, totally makes sense to adjust the game for 3 players. How about making sure gauntlet enemies have legit talismans ?

[Natasmai]

Yeah, totally makes sense to adjust the game for 3 players. How about making sure gauntlet enemies have legit talismans ?

they arent "adjusting for 3 players" every time the arena rewards change, they change those souls to supply the new rewards. So whenever a new talisman set gets added to the arena rewards, they must remove the old talisman set and add the new one.

This isnt hard, people. and it isnt a big time consuming change either. So much bitching and whining on this forum.... at least spend your energy bitching about legitimate problems and complaints, jeez.

[Ace]

I cannot compare this game´s technical background to anything what I´ve experienced before. THE WORST EVER. Bugs everywhere, poor connection even with business internet contract. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Bakura]

Wow, as Blade said, Navigator Games is small. This is a small company. I am actually blown away with all they have accomplished. This puts things into perspective. Instead of negative feedback (and rightfully so, many issues with the game,) I actually want to give Kudos. The glass is half full, not half empty. This small team is actually doing alot.... phenomenal. With all the departments ...creative design, gaming concepts, game design, coding, IT, game testing, marketing, public relations, website maintenance, customer support, etc.
They actually get alot done. Very cool to see the actual faces of the people that make this happen, incorporating the themes of Iron Maiden, and affecting such a large part of my daily life. They feel like family.

Also, the Orbit talis sound over the top.
No true damage for the whole team, and not only cleansing, but removing enemy buffs. Like Alchemy meets Killer Prime.
I'm already planning to implement this in my Arena team.

The Navigator Games Team5879

[Delegreg]

they arent "adjusting for 3 players" every time the arena rewards change, they change those souls to supply the new rewards. So whenever a new talisman set gets added to the arena rewards, they must remove the old talisman set and add the new one.

This isnt hard, people. and it isnt a big time consuming change either. So much bitching and whining on this forum.... at least spend your energy bitching about legitimate problems and complaints, jeez.

For sure Pal. Now we're discussing the August tuning. What's in there ?

3 new talisman sets
Adjusting the dungeon drop rates
Adjusting the arena rewards.

And that's it.

On the talisman sets, we have new ones every month

On the drop rates, they told us the drop rates were normal and now they're adjusting them, good, they listened to feedback

On the arena rewards, those 3 players will at the moment be the only ones benefitting from the new talismans.

So except for fixing two existing parameters, all this tuning update does is provide content for 3 players, call that bitching if you want, but I do believe there are other priorities.

Furthermore new talismans means gauntlet enemies that have them (they're not players) and only 3 players will be able to compete with that.

Again, priorities.

[Bakura]

Besides the droprate increase, this update is saying that there will be 3 new talisman sets (Gravity, Vorpal, & Orbit) to be featured in upcoming events as well as for sale/trade in the store.
Also, arena winners of 1st, 2nd, 3rd place, get Gravity talis as a reward.
So no, this is not just benefitting 3 players. Free Gravity talis is no big deal.
Now the Orbit talis...... they sound like a game changer.

[Rory]

How would the Orbit talismans interact with a character that has the Shroud effect ?

Shroud converts all damage to some amount of True Damage, but surely then the Orbit effect wouldn't make them immune to that true damage ?

[Bakura]

Seems like it. But shroud can be removed, then your very vulnerable. I would never use shroud in the Arena. Musashi, Set, and a bunch of toons can remove it. Then your left with a super low HP.
But yeah, it seems with orbit any enemy toons that deal true damage or w/ shroud converting all damage to true, they cant damage you.
Hopefully we will find out soon.

[URock]

Trooper Talismans not dropping...or the droprate is now 0,6 instead of 0,5%? Same bug as before the update!

[Blade]

Which update? It is not out yet, or? We don't even have August yet :)

[URock]

So all the downloaded new files are only for this event? Then sry!

[Blade]

...and the next events I guess. Actually I don't know for sure, but normally there would have been an official post for the update, right?
This time we cannot really check by ourself, as there are no skill changes to characters for instance.

A short post from the devs would help, especially as there seems to be a problem with the new tallis anyway

[Heavy1974]

Facebook says Server Update and points to the Augusut Preliminary Thread, so it should be done ?!?

[Blade]

Facebook says Server Update and points to the Augusut Preliminary Thread, so it should be done ?!?

Oh, you are right!! Then I have to revise my post, sorry for that, also @URock! I have a FB account, but I don't go there often... so I just assumed there was no update yet.

@devs: Could you please post these things also here in the official forum? It should not be mandatory to use (anti)social media to stay tuned!

Apart from that: the drop rate seems to be not really different now, taking into account URocks post and the first comment on FB saying "You guys gotta seriously re think the Trooper talisman drop rate. Bought 5 trooper dungeon keys and got every single reward cept' the talisman..."

5 keys without a Talisman? This is ridiculous (as long as we can trust that FB-guy)

[Lthepostman]

Well, I got 3 reaper talismans in one dungeon session, so the increased drop rate was definitely real for me. Before the update I managed to get only 1 in 6 dungeon openings

[Esquatcho]

I've done two trooper dungeons for 0 trooper talismans, so looks like the reaper one is heeeaaapppsss better....

[Muzzleloader]

Anyone else try the infernal dungeons, I would like to earn a set of talisman. Have they ever stated the actual drop rate of talisman in dungeons?

[gogosox40]

Anyone else try the infernal dungeons, I would like to earn a set of talisman. Have they ever stated the actual drop rate of talisman in dungeons?

I am in the middle of the infernal dungeon now and I got 2 Reaper talismans so far. So they are dropping.

[Bakura]

I kept getting glitches two days ago when the Quantum event started. Then a faint, quick notice of "your game content is out of date" or something like that .... so went to LOTB google play, sure enough, an update for the app was there. So I reckon this August update is live now.5912
This pic shows there was an indication that something wasn't right..... might need to update.:eek:

[Esquatcho]

Yeah, the infernal dungeon is def dropping reapers, woot!

Trooper dungeon isnt dropping troopers though, boo :(