September 2019, Part 1 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Kaz_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Update (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?12271-September-2019-Part-1-Tuning-PRELIMINARY&p=105814#post105814)s forum post.

[Mario.Ahner]

Inventory ?

[kgk56]

Raven Witch awakenable ?

[scott-5496]

The changes look OK to me and it looks like that start of awakening characters across all worlds will take place starting with Wicker Isle. I am good with that. Other changes look good in that they are pushing cosmic upgrades a lot more and another new dungeon - again, all fine with me. I like the class restrictions stuff - adds a new thing to do, even if it is old stuff we are using to get through them.

Raven Witch look like the next upgrade we can chase - I have three of them! Oh well it will clear some of those new assassin based upgrade materials out of my inventory I suppose - helps to make some space!!

I will echo the above though - we have to get more inventory space as a priority - I have sold a load of material to make space for these new upgrade materials we need and OK I am not losing too much to be honest but we should not need to sell stuff just to make space for new items - it took months to farm that stuff and I like to hoard!!

[Maiden]

Are we going to have an estimated time for Talisman interface improvement? its been really overdue pls :)

[gogosox40]

Good thing I read the changes before I indulged in some dungeons today. Will wait till the tuning update takes place.

[Alvorada]

About the new dungeon: please, reduce time to 1 hour and the cost by half. 2 hours straight it is too much!!

[SinGularity-8786]

Why start with a relatively new character to become awakenable? Wouldn't it be much more useful to make the old 1.0 characters awakenable first?

[R1ck]

About the new dungeon: please, reduce time to 1 hour and the cost by half. 2 hours straight it is too much!!

I agree, too much time is 2 hours without using our phones.

[edsel]

The changes look OK to me and it looks like that start of awakening characters across all worlds will take place starting with Wicker Isle. I am good with that. Other changes look good in that they are pushing cosmic upgrades a lot more and another new dungeon - again, all fine with me. I like the class restrictions stuff - adds a new thing to do, even if it is old stuff we are using to get through them.

Class restrictions would be neat if rewards would increase depending on using shittier characters for dungeons, like weekly dungeon forces 3star compared with daily using 4star. Should have options to try natural 2 and 1 star teams for better loot. We both have asked for an Increased increased difficulty level on all existing worlds, like the recent Insanity level on the event dungeon. I miss playing through the story worlds but as they are now just not worth it. Giving all that existing artwork and programming new life by adding a fourth difficulty level that rewards rare loot would be awesome. Increased Awakening and Cosmic material availability is great.

[Delegreg]

Okay, so I have two maxed raven witches, and after the update I will need to spend ressources to...

Awaken them in order to restore their previous skill effects ?

Is that what you're saying ?

How is that balance tuning and not a blatant rip off ?

I figure the next update will remove Alexander's passive, because you will get it back when he's awakened ...

That's not only lame, it's legitimately stealing things from our accounts.

More details on that and why it was needed would be appreciated, if you value your relations with this salty community that is....

[fanghorria]

Okay but if the witch is not awakened will she still remove perfect immunity & immortality and therefore gain extra turn? Because that was her best ability??

[edsel]

Oh I forgot to request an update bungle resulting in more free ironite please.

[Natasmai]

About the new dungeon: please, reduce time to 1 hour and the cost by half. 2 hours straight it is too much!!


I agree, too much time is 2 hours without using our phones.

I also agree! 1Hour is perfectly fine for a dungeon. You could also let the keys stack. I mean, I have no problem buying 6 keys and a stack of SoT and setting it up to play 6 hours while I sleep (ok well i probably would have an inventory problem). That allows people who still like the 2 hour dungeon to just buy 2 keys and run it for 2 hours.

On a sort of related note, I currently have about 60 LOL keys stored up and I WOULD be kind of pissed off if they suddenly became half as effective... So either double everyone's keys in their inventory, or just make this a change moving forward with new dungeons.

[Muzzleloader]

The idea that you can stack keys would be ideal for overnight auto grinding. Since the LoL.keys are relatively easy to come by for just playing LoL, there isnt a real need to change the time limit. If you dont want to play two hours you can quit anytime. It's not like you spent 250 FC for the key.

If you tried to cut the cost they would cut the rewards accordingly.

Since you cant stack keys they should not allow you to consume 10 or all by mistake having the buttons previously clicked.

[Esquatcho]

More 1* T1 evo runes!?!? Aaarrrgghh!!! At last, real reason to do the cosmic dungeon!

Also, dont get why ppl dont like the two hr dungeon? At least you can get a decent grind out of it, particularly if you are a leave it at night player like myself...

[R1ck]

I don't know why the quality of rewards would be low if you grind less time. In one hour I could get 100 fragments of something, in 2 hours 200.
Anyway I don't know if devs even read or take consideration of our opinions.

[Muzzleloader]

The idea was to cut the cost of the dungeon. I presumed that would justify the cut in rewards.

1* cosmic evo runes are a problem, but I'm grinding for the other cosmic evo runes such as black rain which has been elusive for myself.

[AhabsHarpoon]

ANY RESPONSE FROM THE DEVS???
Oh, that's right... they're from the SILENT PLANET....

[Metallicamilo]

I hope u don't nerf the raven just because you feel like it. More awaken able characters seem Good.

Also, any way you update viking eddie? His skills are the worst of the worst. Maybe consider it for Future upgrades.

[osiris0000]

Hopefully corrupted ox souls will be awakenable one day, that they can get their full skeleton body at their latest stage (instead of being flying heads) and rule the whole meta :cool:

[Natasmai]

The idea was to cut the cost of the dungeon. I presumed that would justify the cut in rewards.

1* cosmic evo runes are a problem, but I'm grinding for the other cosmic evo runes such as black rain which has been elusive for myself.

We suggest cutting the cost of the key in half since we suggest cutting the time in half. No other cuts would be needed. At least I'm not suggesting cutting the SoT cost... that could warrant reward cuts, but that isn't what was suggested.

[Alvorada]

Tuning sot cost or rewards are a big discussion.

I limit my suggestion on duration and cost of the keys.

And to the next dungeons, changing the currently could be problematic.

[Mario.Ahner]

Instead of reducing dungeon time it would be better if only the time in the dungeon would count.

[scott-5496]

Actually just noticed that bit about the Witch nerf - what is up with that guys? That cant be right can it? Removing her main thing that I assume then becomes a thing again when awoken? We need to hear from you guys on this as that is selllig a product (like a car) with a specifiaction (I have three Witches!) and then saying, sorry but we have to take the engine back - you might be able to drive it in a few weeks or months after spending more resources - until then let it sit on your driveway and look pretty....you can still polish it on the weekend!!

I mean come on that is just plain and simple daftness and bordering on.......well you know what, I do not like to say the f***d word!

Please reconsider this and please do not do this for other characters you are going to awaken - we ploughed resources to get these characters for their specifications, not a post-sale specification or engine-less car!

I am all for this new addition to the game - no worries about that but not the way you are doing it with Witch or any other characters where you nerf them and 'maybe' give it back to them after being awoken or upgraded again by us.

[Ace]

Thank you for fixing the neverending extra turns for the Raven Witch. And thank you for fixing the non-working Serenity Tals. Oh, what did you say? You didn´t fix ´em? No kidding! And by the way, thanks for giving ZERO Light tals in the LOL dungeon on level XII after playing it 600 times. You are so generous, as always.

[Yup]

And by the way, thanks for giving ZERO Light tals in the LOL dungeon on level XII after playing it 600 times. You are so generous, as always.

I got 1 in more than 1600 runs.

[Kaz_LOTB]

Regarding the change to the Raven Witch's basic attack, the adjustment to give her Perfect Corruption on her basic along with still removing the perfect forms of Immunity and Immortality made her a bit stronger than intended out of the box (this also fixes the never ending turn bug related to Trooper Talismans). This change still allows her to strip Immunity and Immortality and then inflict Perfect Corruption, but pushes the power of stripping the golden versions a little further away, taking some investment to access.

That all being said, we understand that the change could be seen as disruptive for those relying on specifically removing the golden effects with this character, so we've opted to keep them on her pre-awaken attack for the time being and see how it goes. The tuning notes will be updated to reflect this change when the update goes live.

-Kaz

[scott-5496]

Nice to see that Kaz - that seems to make sense to me.

[Delegreg]

Thanks for your answer kaz.

[URock]

Does that mean that only the awakened witch will lose the skill?
What are the awakened skills and stats of her? Why you don't show these stats here?

[Volrath]

The Raven Witch situation rubs me the wrong way too. She's one of my most valued team members and I'll be leaning on her heavily in the next Gauntlet season where it's Assassin-centric. I don't know how long it will take me to compile the various items I need to awaken her but the timing is not ideal for her to get nerfed.

What if instead of losing the ability to remove perfect immunity/immortality, she lost the extra turns instead? That would be easier to deal with.

[Zugzwang]

(this also fixes the never ending turn bug related to Trooper Talismans). This change still allows her to strip Immunity and Immortality and then inflict Perfect Corruption, but pushes the power of stripping the golden versions a little further away...
-Kaz

It’s not a bug if it worked exactly as stated. At least not to players. And if it’s considered a bug—you just said once awakened it will be an active bug again. Don’t use trooper talismans against Raven Witch or she gets infinite extra turns. How is that a bug? Nothing else give perfect immunity on every hit taken does it? If not then it shouldn’t be considered a bug. If so and I’m wrong then it was poor design to give Raven Witch that ability at all. But it still does exactly what it says the skill will do. So I stand by not technically a bug. Even if it’s something you want to change or fix. It worked. So not a bug.

[URock]

When I fight against a team with Raven Witch I use a team with a toon with Trooper Talismans and a toon with the talisman which gives immunity on true damage to the whole team (don't know the name of talismans).
The Raven Witch would do her attack for years without stopping if she would have no fury attack.
This is never working as intended...

[URock]

Hopefully corrupted ox souls will be awakenable one day, that they can get their full skeleton body at their latest stage (instead of being flying heads) and rule the whole meta :cool:

Awakenable sandworm pls!

[Zugzwang]

When I fight against a team with Raven Witch I use a team with a toon with Trooper Talismans and a toon with the talisman which gives immunity on true damage to the whole team (don't know the name of talismans).
The Raven Witch would do her attack for years without stopping if she would have no fury attack.
This is never working as intended...

Why can’t that be what was intended? They’ve said they want balance and things to counter other things so nothing is completely dominant in all facets of the game. Simply don’t use Trooper Talismans against Raven Witch because that ability counters the other. That’s how games like this SHOULD work in my opinion. That way in say, arena, you are using Raven Witch and face a team with Trooper Talismans equipped and you go first. You win the battle unless the defending team employs a combination that allows stop to be placed on Raven Witch. We should strategize more and complain less when there are things that make us think about what to do. Otherwise it’s just tapping a screen.

[LeoLagarto]

Thank you for fixing the neverending extra turns for the Raven Witch. And thank you for fixing the non-working Serenity Tals. Oh, what did you say? You didn´t fix ´em? No kidding! And by the way, thanks for giving ZERO Light tals in the LOL dungeon on level XII after playing it 600 times. You are so generous, as always.

I also got ZERO tals after 4 completed keys.

[edsel]

So didn't's we get something cool for Friday 13th? Play free Garden of Fear or what a while back?

[Bakura]

Shadow Wicker man: A cool looking toon finally getting some competitive abilities (immunity for all allies against Dark Ghost, Doom, Mark & Burn.)

Starfire talis, might be a little over the top. They remove beneficial effects from enemies: Will this be like Orbit Talis, where if enemy has perf. immunity, they DON'T remove benefits? It's s like the AI sees it as applying a neg. Fix this!

Bass Eddie..... they keep trying to fix this toon, but it really dishonors Steve Harris,.... you know, the guy responsible for all this.... the originator of anything Iron Maiden!

[Natasmai]

Starfire talis, might be a little over the top. They remove beneficial effects from enemies: Will this be like Orbit Talis, where if enemy has perf. immunity, they DON'T remove benefits? It's s like the AI sees it as applying a neg. Fix this!

I dont think this is a bug or needs to be fixed. If you read the description for Perfect Immunity, it states that it prevents other buffs from being removed. So it SHOULD prevent the talisman from removing buffs. I believe the way around PI is to "steal" buffs. I think that stealing isnt removing, so it isnt prevented by PI....But thats just a guess. Maybe that is the bug that needs fixing.

Regarding Raven Witch, Im fine with the changes. Who f'n cares. It isnt a bug the way it works with trooper talis, but it also doesnt seem like a great interaction. I get ZUGs point of view, it is a direct counter to troopers, but there are so many god damn people playing this game that apparently cant read, that it just isnt worth the hassle of dealing with all the ignorance.

Seriously people.... why cant we all just READ. Read the move descriptions, read the talisman effects, read the passives... READ THE DAMN EVENT RELEASES. I cant even count how many people I see on here and on facebook asking the dumbest questions about things that are already clearly defined with a few minutes of reading.

/end rant

[Bakura]

I dont think this is a bug or needs to be fixed. If you read the description for Perfect Immunity, it states that it prevents other buffs from being removed. So it SHOULD prevent the talisman from removing buffs. I believe the way around PI is to "steal" buffs. I think that stealing isnt removing, so it isnt prevented by PI....But thats just a guess. Maybe that is the bug that needs fixing.

Seriously people.... why cant we all just READ. Read the move descriptions, read the talisman effects, read the passives... READ THE DAMN EVENT RELEASES. I cant even count how many people I see on here and on facebook asking the dumbest questions about things that are already clearly defined with a few minutes of reading.

/end rant
Good point about stealing vs. removing. I think your guess is right. I know in the options on the homescreen in the upper right, there are descriptions, I havent read the perf. immunity one in a long time. I will give it a re-read.
There are so many things to remember now, plus, sometimes the description for talis or passives are a little vague. But I understand what you're saying. Whenever something new happens, we gotta read the news feeds, LOTB tuning updates and event release info, check the challenges & achievement screens... then proceed with event. It's good to get prepared before rushing into things. As far as peeps on Facebook (B!tchbook).... I'm not even going to talk about it. LoL

[druid138]

Kaz - are we still on track for seeing this update "later this week" (presumably today)? ;)

[Kaz_LOTB]

Kaz - are we still on track for seeing this update "later this week" (presumably today)? ;)

That is the goal. But each release is an adventure, so we'll see how it goes :)

-Kaz

[druid138]

That is the goal. But each release is an adventure, so we'll see how it goes :)

-Kaz

Awesome, thanks!

[Bakura]

That is the goal. But each release is an adventure, so we'll see how it goes :)

-Kaz
"Post of the Navigator " ☝️

(LoL) 😁

[Zugzwang]

That is the goal. But each release is an adventure, so we'll see how it goes :)

-Kaz

Hey Kaz I’ve an important question for ya.
See how people are talking about stealing vs removing effects and wondering whether they’re different and how they will work against perfect immunity?

Well what I wanna know is sort of related—what’s the difference between DAMAGE “invulnerability” to a certain type; vs “immunity” to DAMAGE of a certain type? Are they different? ;) Because I’ve seen both of these in skill descriptions. I’m not talking about immunity to an effect. I’ve seen the words “immunity to physical damage” and “invulnerability to true damage” as an example. Inquiring minds want to know. Also when will the Gauntlet bug involving being able to use Lords of Light every battle when there is supposed to be no refresh and no duplicates going to be fixed?

Thanks in advance for your time and reply to these matters!

[Kaz_LOTB]

Hey Kaz I’ve an important question for ya.
See how people are talking about stealing vs removing effects and wondering whether they’re different and how they will work against perfect immunity?

Well what I wanna know is sort of related—what’s the difference between DAMAGE “invulnerability” to a certain type; vs “immunity” to DAMAGE of a certain type? Are they different? ;) Because I’ve seen both of these in skill descriptions. I’m not talking about immunity to an effect. I’ve seen the words “immunity to physical damage” and “invulnerability to true damage” as an example. Inquiring minds want to know. Also when will the Gauntlet bug involving being able to use Lords of Light every battle when there is supposed to be no refresh and no duplicates going to be fixed?

Thanks in advance for your time and reply to these matters!

It's intended that Perfect Immunity prevents beneficial effects from being stolen or removed until / unless Perfect Immunity is removed.

Damage Invulnerability includes the 3 status effects: Physical, Magic, and True Block. Damage Immunity is an innate effect that some characters and talismans have, which grants the same benefits but are not actual status effects. They are considered passive or talisman effects.

-Kaz

[Amarthir]

It's intended that Perfect Immunity prevents beneficial effects from being stolen or removed until / unless Perfect Immunity is removed.

Damage Invulnerability includes the 3 status effects: Physical, Magic, and True Block. Damage Immunity is an innate effect that some characters and talismans have, which grants the same benefits but are not actual status effects. They are considered passive or talisman effects.

-Kaz

So.. new game data just now, any changes we should know about?

[URock]

When I fight against a team with Raven Witch I use a team with a toon with Trooper Talismans and a toon with the talisman which gives immunity on true damage to the whole team (don't know the name of talismans).
The Raven Witch would do her attack for years without stopping if she would have no fury attack.
This is never working as intended...

I got this situation today: Raven Witch of defense team wasn't able to do fury attack (blocked?) and did her basic attack on and on. Only sollution was to quit this fight.
This is stupid game design of a developer who doesn't know and test his own developed items. This is not the only bug (or wrong game design), but nothing happens. Instead of solving bugs more and more unfinished items were developed only to make us believe that we need this new stuff so hard, so we put more and more money into this game.

[Olevipoeg]

That is the goal. But each release is an adventure, so we'll see how it goes :)

-Kaz
After 20 years in software industry I can say this is the shortest and most accurate description I have ever read about releasing new software version. :)

[Bakura]

After 20 years in software industry I can say this is the shortest and most accurate description I have ever read about releasing new software version. :)



I like how he said "an adventure".....

So, I guess I should put on my Safari hat and bring some bug spray!

[scott-5496]

I have to say that at the moment seems to be riddled with issues - talisman not working at all well, characters that do not work as expected and general issues like the no access to BoS otr shop bug on some devices. I get the feeling we are on a bit of a run away train. The devs are having to stick to getting stuff out due to the number of new players from the Legacy Tour and the mega event and the quality control, for what it was, is now almost non-existant or is it just me? The bug that does not allow access to BoS and shop must be critical to them as they can get no sales from those devices and folk cannot spoend ironit - right? Not sure how may it effects but my daighter has not been able to get into BoS for some time now - not just the last update but the update before that i think it was....now she cannot get into the shop either....my son has the same device (Kindle Fire) and it work totally fine.

I still have a weird but that has been there for months where I cannot use the news feed or it crashes the game - not a big issue but a mild pain.

I really hope they get these issues fixed soon - I have seen a few folk now talking about leavinbg the game over this and the rest of the bugs that are piling up.

[Bakura]

I really hope they get these issues fixed soon - I have seen a few folk now talking about leavinbg the game over this and the rest of the bugs that are piling up.
Wow, that's some major issues. I'm on Android on a Samsung, nothing like that here. BUT..... they have had issues w/ toons still attacking after dieing from Doom for along time now, and add Dark Ghost to the list now. I stopped emailing them months ago about issues.... seemed pointless, but maybe I should again about this issue.

6167
That's Gambler... attacking from "the Beyond!"

6168
This one died from Dark Ghost.... but still haunts from "The Beyond!"