Effing Moonchild breaks the effing arena [Archive]

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Cthulhu

01-09-2020, 07:08 AM

Hey devs.

I can understand that after so many characters, creating new ones that keep the balance is hard.

However, the arena on high levels beeing a series of draws, usually only two fully awakened Moonchilds (Moonchildren?) with Labyrinth hitting at each other, that's awful.

7418

The high arena levels are just no fun anymore.

I usually am against the nerfing of characters, but this won't work. IMO, the Moonchild should not be allowed to have all assassin slots.

Yup

01-09-2020, 07:16 AM

It does make it all kind of suck more than normal.

But there's probably some anti-Moonkiddie character down the pipe.

For the record.. in my matches with you.. it wasn't Moonchild that forced the draw.. your Moonchild was dead both times .. but I couldn't overcome BHE with the Sacred/Serenity combo before the 20 turn timer ran out (after spending 10+ turns to kill Moonchild). Need a powerful healblock or talisman passive disable character or talisman set really. One that's worthy of the top-end teams.... which I'm sure they are working on...

Cthulhu

01-09-2020, 07:23 AM

Indeed, that's broken too, BH's passive stacking up with the sacred passive.

Also, BH's other part of the passive is also kind of broken, the invisible stun. Sometimes it will stun one singular character for a bunch of rounds, other times it won't work at all, without BH having had his passives disabled.

Yup

01-09-2020, 07:26 AM

I think BHE's passive stun works correctly. It invisibly stuns forever.. or until BHE is dead or has his passive disabled. Disabling his passive ain't always easy even with BHE vs BHE which are both capable of disabling the other -- but with Moonchild.. BHE can't use his power ability to heal.. and it's that which causes passive disable to be inflicted on opponents.

What gets me more is that Moonchild is NOT "immune to all buffs" he simply doesn't SHOW any buffs. Matches would take half the time if allies were NOT invisibly granting Moonchild Heal Shield or Life Seal or Spell vamp... and he heals when he's hit. Which happens all the time. You can watch him heal.. when with no buffs and no vampire.. he shouldn't ever do when he's hit.

Cthulhu

01-09-2020, 07:34 AM

I have noticed another arena-breaking bug, which is definitely a bug, with the fully awakened beast.

I have had it happen at least 4 times: My team with Moonchild, Mystic Flame with Celestial, Madam Fortune, and Dark lilith.

With the opponent hitting first, the fully awakened beast will just attack non-stop. My team won't die because of the celestials, and that will go on until the fight times out.

Also, my characters will get infinite flames, which slows the game down to a crawl.

If someone could look into this, that would be great.

Yup

01-09-2020, 07:36 AM

yeah, that's been discussed in another tread..

https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?12938-Worst-bug-in-Arena-right-now-Beast-endless-auto-attack

I counted once.. 32 turns for the Beast. Just silly.

Ip4

01-09-2020, 08:05 AM

also dvs agree with all that,in gauntlet first battle in SSS Moonchild with labirinth and Beast with lantern/warlord....so stupid...

mforce

01-09-2020, 10:24 AM

My first battle in S was: Gambler with Labyrinth, Assasin WW with starfire, KP with frontier, and Warrior LoL with Viper. Second battle: Phantom Eddie with Forge, lvl3 awakaned moonchild with Hex/Nightmare, and 2 less useful character. Now im stuck, and have to move talismans to finish S.

Horus-2545

01-09-2020, 01:03 PM

Yes. Some arena battles take me 10 minutes are more. I can get the win, but my motivation wanes. Sacred BHE, vampiric moonchild with labyrinth. They made so many counters for the op characters (making talk is mans that enhance survival), but arena battles take forever now. Thia arena event made that quite clear. A lot of work for minimal reward.

Horus-2545

01-09-2020, 07:47 PM

I don't mean to harp on this or maybe I do. I cannot tell you how many teams it is pretty easy to beat and then you just end up spending a few minutes trying to whittle away the health of Moonchild. Now get this. For the first time, I saw a Cosmic Past Talisman in action. I whittled away the Moonchild only to have him revive with full health. Then I had to spend another 3 minutes to kill him again. I mean really. Are these game designers out of the bleeping mind?! I'm nearly done with Arena! (I know I'm venting.)

Muzzleloader

01-09-2020, 07:52 PM

At least you killed the little fellow. He could have vampire cosmic and heal before you kill him.

Horus-2545

01-09-2020, 07:59 PM

I hate that little MOFO, annoying Ann’s tedious as crap. No fun! And sad that it wrecked arena.

Kaz_LOTB

01-09-2020, 08:03 PM

edsel

01-09-2020, 08:51 PM

Just jumping into let you know we have been keeping our eye on the various issues in the arena (some of which are bugs, such as the Beast breaking the multiple extra turn limit, and others of which are character / talisman power related like Moonchild + Labyrinth / BHE + Sacred). There are fixes, solutions, and counters either in development or pending for the next release.

Keep an eye our for Tuning and Update notes that will call out any specific changes or fixes being addressed.

-Kaz

Hey Kaz my second SSS battle is going on and on in the Beast loop against your Moon with Labarynth and Vampiric healing himself while I inflict damage. My clansmen said you wanted video of this?
https://youtu.be/wMDfCTb0sPA
Can you please give me the win for this battle? The game is on autopilot now and will go until reboot kicks me off or battery dies. Thanks-Edsel

Kaz_LOTB

01-09-2020, 08:55 PM

Maiden

01-09-2020, 09:06 PM

Horus-2545

01-09-2020, 11:33 PM

Thank you. Yes, it does give hope that higher tier Arena will at some point be viable in the future. I think it will be important to nerf/fix, not just to have a counter. I think the current passive counters that were just released are too much to pay in Ironrite for the average player to be able to get.

Yup

01-10-2020, 12:39 AM

Hey Kaz my second SSS battle is going on and on in the Beast loop against your Moon with Labarynth and Vampiric healing himself while I inflict damage. My clansmen said you wanted video of this?
https://youtu.be/wMDfCTb0sPA
Can you please give me the win for this battle? The game is on autopilot now and will go until reboot kicks me off or battery dies. Thanks-Edsel

Also see how Moonchild is healing... How??? Because he has buffs.. you just can't see them

Horus-2545

01-10-2020, 12:51 AM

Also see how Moonchild is healing... How??? Because he has buffs.. you just can't see them

Yup, I've only been playing this game for just over a year. Do you remember another character that was as problematic as Moonchild (and I know you have argued that he is not that problematic if you bring multihitters). I was just curious if this is an isolated incident or a recurrent thing.

edsel

01-10-2020, 12:51 AM

Also see how Moonchild is healing... How??? Because he has buffs.. you just can't see them

We speculate hidden Sacred set or something but he full heals, takes damage, then heals back full over and again. Little MoFo

Yup

01-10-2020, 01:26 AM

It's the Sacred set on allies. The Sacreds .... "% chance to grant allies heal shield for 2 turns when taking damage".. or it cleanses and grants it all to allies upon death....those buffs get applied to Moonchild even though you can't see them. I also think he's getting Perfect Health at times.. and Cleanse... Moonchild will also take damage after he attacks at times as if from Punishment or Burn buffs or something - not a lot of damage, but clearly damage. And Marks work on Moonchild even though you can't see the marks. All the buffs work for the most part, they are just invisible. I obviously can't verify some things like Corruption or Ascension... but the standard red/blue/green/orange/purple buffs all seem to work.

Yup, I've only been playing this game for just over a year. Do you remember another character that was as problematic as Moonchild (and I know you have argued that he is not that problematic if you bring multihitters). I was just curious if this is an isolated incident or a recurrent thing.

The Prisoner and his passive has always caused unexpected issues.... since I started playing. The fact that currently the Prisoner doesn't seem to have any major issue is kind of not the norm. Prior to last months update, the Prisoner was disabling all passives on all enemies, ignoring Singularity talismans and immunity. Using him was one sure-fire way to kill Moonchild or any team with Moonchld rather easily. (This no longer works though)

And for Moonchild it's specifically multihitters that cause Moonchild to heal... see above :) If you only hit Moonchild with a single hitter, you can whittle him down, even if he has Vampire.. assuming you also have a max-awakened Moonchild.

Single fighters left..... Moonchild + Labyrinth + Echo, manually ALWAYS beats Moonchild + Labyrinth + Vampire, AI -- manually you get more "prefect" hits and Echo grants you more turns. If it's Moonchild v Moonchild, the vampires, when they do heal, don't heal for as much as if they only hit 1 opponent. It's when they hit 2, 3 or 4 opponents that they pretty much full-heal the AI Moonchild. He's actually harder to kill if you have more allies alive.

URock

01-10-2020, 09:38 AM

A limit of a number of rounds to all buffs would be nice. Many builds would be playable and we'll not have these boring 10 minute fights leading to draw.

Zugzwang

01-11-2020, 03:39 AM

BHE may be broken, but ECE Eddie can apply a bunch of Marks that last 4 turns. So if you don’t hit perfectly for a few turns and build them up then crack him with a perfect, it breaks through the sacred combo and he will die.

Zugzwang

01-11-2020, 03:41 AM

It's the Sacred set on allies. The Sacreds .... "% chance to grant allies heal shield for 2 turns when taking damage".. or it cleanses and grants it all to allies upon death....those buffs get applied to Moonchild even though you can't see them. I also think he's getting Perfect Health at times.. and Cleanse... Moonchild will also take damage after he attacks at times as if from Punishment or Burn buffs or something - not a lot of damage, but clearly damage. And Marks work on Moonchild even though you can't see the marks. All the buffs work for the most part, they are just invisible. I obviously can't verify some things like Corruption or Ascension... but the standard red/blue/green/orange/purple buffs all seem to work.

The Prisoner and his passive has always caused unexpected issues.... since I started playing. The fact that currently the Prisoner doesn't seem to have any major issue is kind of not the norm. Prior to last months update, the Prisoner was disabling all passives on all enemies, ignoring Singularity talismans and immunity. Using him was one sure-fire way to kill Moonchild or any team with Moonchld rather easily. (This no longer works though)

And for Moonchild it's specifically multihitters that cause Moonchild to heal... see above :) If you only hit Moonchild with a single hitter, you can whittle him down, even if he has Vampire.. assuming you also have a max-awakened Moonchild.

Single fighters left..... Moonchild + Labyrinth + Echo, manually ALWAYS beats Moonchild + Labyrinth + Vampire, AI -- manually you get more "prefect" hits and Echo grants you more turns. If it's Moonchild v Moonchild, the vampires, when they do heal, don't heal for as much as if they only hit 1 opponent. It's when they hit 2, 3 or 4 opponents that they pretty much full-heal the AI Moonchild. He's actually harder to kill if you have more allies alive.

A multi hitter like ECE Eddie with quantum beats moonchild (with vampiric) in 2-3 turns.

george-2964

01-11-2020, 07:13 PM

7435

bugged you say?

despite the fact that it is obvious it has perfect disable (and more debuffs) I was still not able to use any power moves (and fury when lucy got cleansed).
thankfully I was able to beat that gauntlet move, which included putting perfect disable to dark lilith, which actually worked

purplepeople

01-12-2020, 05:17 PM

It's the Sacred set on allies. The Sacreds .... "% chance to grant allies heal shield for 2 turns when taking damage".. or it cleanses and grants it all to allies upon death....those buffs get applied to Moonchild even though you can't see them. I also think he's getting Perfect Health at times.. and Cleanse... Moonchild will also take damage after he attacks at times as if from Punishment or Burn buffs or something - not a lot of damage, but clearly damage. And Marks work on Moonchild even though you can't see the marks. All the buffs work for the most part, they are just invisible. I obviously can't verify some things like Corruption or Ascension... but the standard red/blue/green/orange/purple buffs all seem to work.

The Prisoner and his passive has always caused unexpected issues.... since I started playing. The fact that currently the Prisoner doesn't seem to have any major issue is kind of not the norm. Prior to last months update, the Prisoner was disabling all passives on all enemies, ignoring Singularity talismans and immunity. Using him was one sure-fire way to kill Moonchild or any team with Moonchld rather easily. (This no longer works though)

Yeah, this is one thing that's puzzling me in the Arena now. Moonchild's passive says it can only be countered by passive disable applied at the beginning of battle. But more than half the battles where I take my Prisoner against Moonchild, it doesn't disable his passive. Why? Sometimes those teams start with talismans/passives that say they give immunity to all allies, or cleanse to all allies... but Moonchild is not supposed to get those (or any) buffs, so how do they prevent the passive disable?

drrchmnd

01-12-2020, 10:13 PM

Yeah, this is one thing that's puzzling me in the Arena now. Moonchild's passive says it can only be countered by passive disable applied at the beginning of battle. But more than half the battles where I take my Prisoner against Moonchild, it doesn't disable his passive. Why? Sometimes those teams start with talismans/passives that say they give immunity to all allies, or cleanse to all allies... but Moonchild is not supposed to get those (or any) buffs, so how do they prevent the passive disable?

prisoner currently has issues with things. there are several other places where he isn't functioning correctly. a lot of it is fairly current but part of it is when his passive disable also disabled talisman part of the time. so most of it is they probably havent managed to fix him. which is another story altogether.

drrchmnd

01-12-2020, 11:30 PM

And this is where I mention what I have been thinking about Arena for a long long long time, and yes I mentioned this in the worst bug in arena thread already. And the only place I would want to see the following implemented is in the Arena everything else would stay the same as it is.

I am in favor of a complete Arena rebuild. As it is Arena is not able to be won by anyone and everyone. About the only way to win is to have a team of top echelon characters and talisman. Yes there is a time and SoW commitment in there along with other things that I am forgetting and just not mentioning. Toss in the lovely arena event that we just had and its even more annoying. So yeah I think Arena needs to be completely rebuilt in a manner that actually levels the playing field out a bit. There isn't a way to completely level it out nor should there be. People who invest the $ and time etc should be able to reap the benefits of such investments. But it should be set up so those of us who can invest the time, SoW, have a competent team, have the ability to counter top echelon teams, and a bit of luck can beat it. It should be a strategy type item not a I have the impossible to beat talisman and characters.

Back in the beginning of the game the characters were set up with a point value (I don't know if this has been removed or not because I can't see it). I don't think I ever encountered a situation where I had a team that had more points than I could field. Which makes me think that this point or value assignment to characters wasn't really for the main story but for when the Arena was introduced.

I would like to see this brought back into play specifically for the Arena. Where you can only field a team that has a combined value of X points. Using the first post in this thread as an example BHE with M Fortune, D Lilith(maxed), MChild (maxed). Lets say this is the current top echelon team. You wouldn't be able to use it because your points would be over. Lets say 25 points is a top tier character. BHE, Lilith and MChild would definitely fit the bill here. MFortune might be a tier 2 with a value of 20 points. That would give us 95 points on this team. So where should the line be as far as team point value? With 4 characters that would be a max of 100 points but it would be all top tier and not change anything. How about 80 points. That allows you to have 2 tier 1 for 50 points and 30 points to round things out. Or 1 tier 1 (25) with 2 tier 2 (40) and 1 tier 3 (15). Or any other combination of 80 points.

This would help immensely in evening things out but lets take it one set further.

A point set up for talisman. Same basic concept as above. The only difference would be in having 2 point totals. One for the character and one for the team overall. Tier 1(20) would be things like Starfire and Labyrinth. Tier 2(15) would be more like Orbit and Venom. Tier 3 (10) along the lines of necropolis. Tier 4(5) say comet, lightning, explosive. Tier 5 (0) would be health, holy, endure and such. With an arena max of 25 points per character and 80 per team. This won't eliminate all of the more annoying talisman combinations at all but it would eliminate some. Especially when things like Angel start showing up as a cosmic talisman. (Labyrinth and Angel is very annoying in my opinion.)

Can also outright eliminate specific combinations of talisman in the Arena. If this talisman is worn this one can't be etc..

Another item that could also be tossed into the mix is add some negative aspects. And this is where I think one of the biggest fails has happened. With very few exceptions (characters and talisman) there are no negative effects generated by talisman or character combinations. How to make the labyrinth talisman a questionable item to use is simple. Add a clause to it that there is a 10% failure rate where all attacks hit you and cause 50% more damage than normal. Or say The Prisoner and The Alchemist despise each other and lower the teams atk and magic by 25%.

At the same time I do find it fascinating that the code for the talisman is so mucked up that it causes so many things to happen. For more on this there are a slew of threads discussing characters being dead but talisman effects still being applied and then characters resurrecting that well shouldn't be and so on and so forth. Implementing this would force them to revisit and probably rewrite a significant amount of code.

Basically there is a LOT that could be done to clean up and improve the Arena and the rest of the game overall. Unfortunately I don't think they are going to do much to fix it unless it actually causes the game to break.

Stormseye

01-13-2020, 05:16 PM

Some times the beneficial effects are not even hidden...

https://youtu.be/jnOuHN8rH-w

Horus-2545

01-13-2020, 05:30 PM

Haha. Moonchild is even wrecking gauntlet.

scimitar

01-21-2020, 05:31 PM

The moon child is not a problem, there are ways to solve its influence. What is the problem? This is the whole arena as a whole. She can be defined - a black hole. In the sense that the stated rules simply do not work or work according to their own principles that only they understand. Problem - A beast with a commander and a lantern. Everyone knows about this error. This is more than wrong. Even worse, when players knowingly use it in defense. These are bad players. Play fair.
All good

Cthulhu

01-21-2020, 05:58 PM

Ydex

01-21-2020, 06:34 PM

Conversely, what is "bugged" and what isn't? The Beast infinite loop seems the worst, and I don't fight Beast teams. Some say Lab/Vamp Moonchild is "bugged", but I beat those regularly. Some say the Killer is "bugged", but it seems he's just working as designed. So for, "developers, respond to Arena bugs" --what do we want them to "fix" and what should they leave alone?

Beddie

01-21-2020, 06:45 PM

If anything it’s an exploit (the beast’s infinite turn thing)
Moonchild is a bug
The Killer is literally using his passive and having it affect Moonie

scott-5496

01-21-2020, 07:20 PM

Cthulhu

01-22-2020, 10:16 AM

I say do not nerf anything unless it is properly broken. Moonchild is not broken. The Beast infinite loop is broken as it destroys a game. Moonchild is just tough to beat but beatable he defo is - it does not cause a crash or loop or whatever.

Well, there is "broken" and there is "badly designed". IMO the Moonchild makes the arena boring as heck, and everyone and their mother are pretty much obliged to have one on the higher levels. This is "badly designed" in my book.

Metallicamilo

01-22-2020, 11:55 AM

Yes. Yes and yes.
You could only enter 1 of the many tiers. So new players have the chance to even get to their tops. You could divide them by level and points per character and talismans. I like the idea.

Bakura

01-22-2020, 12:06 PM

There's alot of stuff broken in Arena.
There's no rhyme or reason half the time.
Inflicting one's own team with pass disable. And why does it seem Moonchild's "perfect hit only" is applied to the whole team, or either Lilith Nightmoon and other's miss the whole team half the time, plus her pass disable doesn't apply half the time.
And, yes... I'm aware of celestial talis and other passives.... but sometimes there's no visible reason for why stuff does or does not work.
I believe Killer is very bugged and also exploited.
Too much pass disable going on that's not visible.
I miss the days of Fury and few passives. It worked better then.

Arena is like a 100 people all severely injured in a 100 car pile up on the Freeway, then they all got out and played soccer. With all the broken legs and concussions, it's wonder anything would ever be accomplished.

Also, tired of getting Silver negs while wearing Serenity.
She never revived in this pic.... she was disabled, although it wasn't showing.
7540

Also, the Dominance cosmic does not heal on Moonchild.
The list of issue/bugs goes on and on.

Storm

01-22-2020, 02:24 PM

Sidney

01-22-2020, 03:11 PM

Yes!!! I completely agree with this as well!!! Moonchild is not broken. Leave him alone!!

Blade

01-22-2020, 03:19 PM

Since the last arena event I still have Coalgiver defense. Arena is not much fun to play since years, but recently it got even worse. But even down in the ranks (~#700), several moonboys, fully awakened liliths + lucifers are around, but most of the other teams are by far more fun to play (and/or easy for autoplay).
Actually I need the ~200 Ironite I usually get per week from Arena and I think the more easy matches won't compensate with the random chance of 1 or 2 Ironite per match. So I might need to return to a normal defense, which would also mean I need to open my moonchild soul to join the party? I really miss the good old days in the beginning of the Arena. The character's skills and talismans just became too powerful in my perspective to run Arena as it was designed years ago. The change in reward system was strange, as rank and points don't fit. Some sort of devisions, power limits (related to characters/talis) and stuff like this would be cool. But I guess there is no time to work on such ideas. And one other big obstacle: Balance is simply unwanted in the freemium world. Same might be true for some bugfixes.

Horus-2545

01-22-2020, 03:32 PM

Arena is a clusterfuck. And I've already initiated a post saying how Moonchild has fucked up the game. I also have a post on the Beast "bug." (That is more ruinous acutely, since it can be exploited by others to gain advantage or to avoid being attacked.) Moonchild is just a complete pain in the ass and has made the game a lot less fun. So many games we are just using primary skills (never even getting to power or fury skills). The game is dumbed down and much more boring. EVERYONE has a Moonchild on their team. What fun is that? Where is the diversity? All these great power moves and fury skills--useless.
And my great complaint has to do with what Bakura described. I don't even know what is going on with Moonchild half the time. I was fighting a solo Moonchild without any apparent effect against a full team (3 of those in the team with a triple hit.) Every time I struck with VHE I took a shitload of damage. Why? I had no negative effects on me. Stuff like that goes on ALL the time.
The worst is vampiric. What a sleepfest this can be. I usually beat a vampiric-enabled moon child. I only have some motivation to get above 4500 for Ironrite, but there seems to be no skill in getting to #1. It is more about how long you play in Arena. I might be fine with that, but these Arena games are so brainless and mindless and long because of always having to dispose of the Moonchild at the end. Has there ever been a time in the game where matches in the Arena take so long? (I've only been playing the game for just over a year, so I cannot really speak to this.)

Hank93

01-23-2020, 02:58 PM

Haven't been able to test it, but does the damage dealt by Horus when enemies heal go through a Lab/Vamp Moonbrat? I don't know where I left my cosmic vampire if I even had one to test it with the Arena.

Puntwothree

01-24-2020, 02:32 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned this (and I DO try to read all the posts in a thread before replying, although I DO get lazy), but the max awakened Alchemist seemed like an odd dev choice. On the surface, he seems to have abilities that would deal with Moonboy and Lab Talis... unless the Moonchild, too, is max awakened.

I love my Alchemist, and he deals wonderfully with Moonchildren who are not Max awakened. Seems like you could tweak the language of Max Moonchild just a little so that it stops all power (but NOT fury) abilities and there would suddenly be a lot more answers to the problem. Which is a problem. Moonchild would remain good, but not broken.

And I mean, C'mon. Is it really that easy to pull off Fury skills in Arena? (It is, but only if you design your team that way. Most characters wearing most talis have to survive at least a couple of rounds before they discover that their furies are disabled.)

EDIT: You could even give Moonchild a deterrent to Fury use without preventing it completely. i.e., "Inflict perfect stun on any enemy that uses a Fury skill." That seems in his wheelhouse, without preventing all enemy units from using 2/3 of their wheelhouse.

Bakura

01-24-2020, 10:48 PM

Moonchild is being updated.
Skill ability disabling is being changed to just 7 turns instead of entire battle.
PDK is going to be able to grant immunity to Moonchild's "skill disabling" effect.7556

Puntwothree

01-24-2020, 11:49 PM

Moonchild is being updated.
Skill ability disabling is being changed to just 7 turns instead of entire battle.
PDK is going to be able to grant immunity to Moonchild's "skill disabling" effect.7556

Progress! [and then some more characters so I can get to 10]

Jeano

02-01-2020, 02:35 PM

Anyone tried equipping quantum set to deal with labyrinth?

Jeano

02-01-2020, 02:38 PM

And I just got hit with an entire squad with infinite endure after I had nobody to remove beneficial because of wrath child's passive, so moonchild isn't the only issue.

Zugzwang

02-01-2020, 02:46 PM

And I just got hit with an entire squad with infinite endure after I had nobody to remove beneficial because of wrath child's passive, so moonchild isn't the only issue.

I faced a single Mayan Priestess years ago who kept enduring herself and I couldn’t remove it because I didn’t bring the right toons. If you know there will be endure that must be removed or anything else that has to be removed and won’t expire, you have to bring a toon capable of removing it and hope it survives long enough to do it.

Yup

02-01-2020, 03:03 PM

I think many learned their lesson about Endure when Osiris was released. He was a bitch bitch of that initially.

ShadowedLies

02-02-2020, 04:01 AM

Remember the good old days when taunt, thorn shields, and the prisoner were the only complaints about arena?

Jeano

02-02-2020, 04:37 AM

I faced a single Mayan Priestess years ago who kept enduring herself and I couldn’t remove it because I didn’t bring the right toons. If you know there will be endure that must be removed or anything else that has to be removed and won’t expire, you have to bring a toon capable of removing it and hope it survives long enough to do it.

Yup, was just unlucky that he got nuked, but that's how it goes. My one guy against an unkillable squad although that's kinda my point. It doesn't happen every time and if it does well then the other guy wins. You kill the endure before that then maybe you win. In OP's example of Moonchild there are ways to get around Labyrinth and I think the issue is the Talisman set rather than the character.