W. Minotaur vs S. Werewolf - passive ability priority ?

[Rory]

Warrior Minotaur - passive ability prevents revenge and counter attacks.

Sentinel Werewolf - passive ability has small chance to counter attack.

I had this situation in the Arena just now, I had the warrior minotaur on my team, and the opposing team had the sentinel werewolf.

The werewolf was able to counter attack my team. My minotaur did not have any negative effects that would have disabled its passive ability.

So, how was the werewolf able to counter-attack, ignoring the minotaur's passive which prevents counter attacks ?

[AndyCatzo]

Yeah, I think there was an issue with W Minotaur passive, there is a thread in the forum where this was reported:

https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?12734-Compendium-of-Bugged-Chars-Talismans

[Durandal_LOTB]

This could potentially be the result of how the S. Werewolf's passive is worded.

Technically, it's a hybrid of both Counterattack and Revenge. This alternative definition might be why the W. Minotaur's passive is failing to recognize it. My understanding is that W. Minotaur should still be able to stop S. Werewolf. I'll investigate this when I'm in next. Thanks for the heads-up. :)

[Natasmai]

if you are looking into this issue, you can also look into Warrior Minotaur and how he affects talisman like viper, counterstrike, and avenger. I cant speak for the last two since they are so rarely used, but I suspect minotaur has no effect on vipers.

I have seen multiple occasions where minotaur does not have a passive/perfect disable and a warrior LOL with vipers will still be revenge attacking. Now, there is no way to confirm whether the counter attack was triggered by his passive or by the viper, but one of the effects (or perhaps both?) are not being disabled by the minotaur. Of course this could also be a result of "invisible" debuffs as well. It is entirely possible that the minotaur has a passive/perfect disable effect applied without it being visible. It happens all the time to Moonchild. Killer has a major bug with his passive causing invisible disables on the enemy. But, I think the cause is most likely that minotaur is incapable of preventing talisman effects.

[Yup]

Aren't all characters incapable of preventing talisman effects?

[Ydex]

Viper grants "50% Chance to counter an enemy when attacked." --it doesn't grant you counterstrike, which is an effect red Minotaur could prevent. Nobody can prevent direct Talisman effects, only when the Talisman says it grants you a preventable, named effect.

OP-- If the Werewolf's skill is worded to not include a named effect, it should not be preventable by negating named effects.

[Natasmai]

Aren't all characters incapable of preventing talisman effects?

i dont know if this is said with tongue firmly in cheek or not.... but there have been "bugs" which prevented talisman and also, obviously maxed alchemist can turn off labs and vipers... unless a moonchild is on the enemy team...

Im not sure how the devs thought Alchemist was an answer to moonchild... but that was a fail.

[Rory]

OP-- If the Werewolf's skill is worded to not include a named effect, it should not be preventable by negating named effects.

The Minotaur's passive skill wording begins:
"Prevents all Counterattack and Revenge effects from the enemy team"

The werewolf's passive skill wording says:
"25% chance to counterattack enemies who attacked you or any ally"


For comparison
the sentinel Mayan Priestess, has a passive Revenge, which says "35% chance to counterattack when an ally gets attacked."
So does the Warrior Newborn of Light, and the Assassin Newborn of Light. Same wording for them.
the assassin Corrupt Ox Cultist, has a passive Counter, which says "50% chance to counter attack the opponent that attacked you."

I don't have any other characters that have either Counter or Revenge passives, so couldn't say for sure what the wording is for them.

And then I have Osiris with Strike Talismans, whose effect is worded "Grants Counterstrike for 3 turns at the start of battle. Counterstrike gives a 35% chance to immediately attack the enemy that has just attacked you"
And then the Viper talisman effect is worded "50% chance to counter an enemy when attacked"
Baroness Redan's passive says "Gains Revenge for duration of the battle"


Now, if you're saying that because the werewolf's passive skill is called "Feral Mind" and doesn't explicitly include the "Counter" or "Revenge" effect, like Baroness Redan's passive skill does, then the Minotaur passive should not block it, then, that's kind of confusing.

Like, when is a counterattack not a Counterattack ? It pops up with the yellow "Counter" text when it triggers. But it's not a Counterattack ? :\

[Ydex]

Counterstrike, Revenge, and Perfect Revenge are status effects. I don't know what "Counterattack" or "counterattack" is. I've wondered this before. Need clarification from the devs, I guess.