Instant Feature

[Rain88]

Hello,

Been suggesting (since the start) this on random threads and on an old thread that got archived so I thought about reviving the thread.

How does it work?
Completing a cosmic, event dungeons and a time rift (such as normal LoL or BNW excluding frontier dungeons) with 3 skulls would unlock an Instant feature. The instant feature will allow you to spend the Sand of Time to instantly get the rewards (instead of having to go through the autoplay)

Benefits?
The instant feature would be very useful as it
would:

Reduce the server load (which would reduce the disconnection and the errors)
Save phone's battery
Save people's time
Remove the annying grind
Increase the ironite spending

[MuzakMaker]

Honestly, this game can't handle figuring out damage for one attack in arena sometimes. Do you really think it can handle calculating rewards, success rate and all the other parts that come along with it?

What I see happening is you click instant play, the device grinds for 2 minutes and then crashes.

Plus on the flip side it could be argued auto play is barely playing the game as it is. An instant play removes any less semblance of playing from the game. Just one button and suddenly I've spent 120 Sands and have a handful of mats as a result.

That doesn't sound like fun, it sounds like an in app purchase.

[Rain88]

Calculating the rewards for each run takes less than a second usually (in autoplay and manual), why would it take more if it was instant?

Endless grinding (especially in events dungeons) or nursing the game in autoplay is fun?

How is that an app purchase? People that have the ironite and are going to grind for something, are going to grind regardless if it's autoplay or instant. All what Instant is doing is saving them time while reducing the server load.

Heaps of other games had that instant feature and it was successful.

[Blazpheme]

That is some millennial thinking right there: "Give me stuff without my having to work for it". Why bother playing the game at all?

Sounds like you want it to be more like "Idle Heroes" and have the game rebranded as "Legacy of the Ease". No thanks...

[Rain88]

That is some millennial thinking right there: "Give me stuff without my having to work for it". Why bother playing the game at all?

Sounds like you want it to be more like "Idle Heroes" and have the game rebranded as "Legacy of the Ease". No thanks...

Right... Let's "work" for it... after all this is a second job not a game. Plus running something endlessly on autoplay is a challenge? What's the challenge here? How good is your phone battery?

There are plenty of areas that you can actually play the game such as Arena, Gauntlet, Raids, Frontier dungeons... Do you consider running cosmos , LoL, BNW or event dungeons for hours on autoplay as "playing a game"?

[Puntwothree]

@blazpheme, there are too ways this can go:

Option 1: we “work” for our rewards. Although work is the wrong word. I would say, “wait.” Our batteries die. We get new phones. Apple gets the money.

Option 2: we get the rewards we would have gotten anyway, faster. We keep the same phones. Nodding Frog gets our money.

Also, are you aware that Millennials are old now? Are you sure you’re referring to the right generation?

[Puntwothree]

An instant feature would allow the devs to get as creative/complicated as they like with the actual original dungeon, and we couldn’t gripe about their tali choices affecting our grind speed.

In other words, we might actually have to work for our wins and stars and they wouldn’t feel obligated to dumb down the dungeons post release because people aren’t getting their rewards fast enough.

[Azagthor]

That is some millennial thinking right there: "Give me stuff without my having to work for it". Why bother playing the game at all?
Sounds like you want it to be more like "Idle Heroes" and have the game rebranded as "Legacy of the Ease". No thanks...

lol what are you talking about?

The "work" and "playing" part of this game comes from developing teams which can reliably be used to farm dungeons. Once we find a team that works, the auto-play becomes functionally the same as many of those idle games. Plenty of other games have features which speed up grinding once you've overcome the initial challenge, including a few RPGs that have something like this proposed Instant system where fights aren't lower-level enemies can be automatically resolved without having to waste your time going through the motions.

I'm not sure how the coding would handle it, but a further increase to the speed modifier during auto-play could be useful here.

[MuzakMaker]

There's also the fact that real world time is a way to help put a soft cap on how much a player can obtain.

True there's not a whole lot to earn in cosmos which rarely get's played for some people (with the near constant events dictating where you should play) but if you are just trying to spend your SoT, play some troopers and get some random mats/outdated talismans there are plenty of places to burn through that stuff quickly in cosmos.

Lord of Flies takes a couple seconds, anything on normal is fast and simple.

Besides even if the devs did decide this was a good idea (which I disagree with) we have plenty of things wrong that need to be fixed before we introduce a completely new style of play.

[Rain88]

There's also the fact that real world time is a way to help put a soft cap on how much a player can obtain.

That soft cap relies on time, which is exactly my whole point. After figuring out the good strategies and completing some initial challenges for an event dungeon (or a cosmos/LoL/BNW), what's the point of wasting time to autoplay while watching your phone drains its battery by repeating the same task over and over again. You can actually use that time to actually play the game in Gauntlet, Raids, Arena ...etc. Furtheremore, there is no need for this cap as it's already being set by limiting the number of items you can buy with fragments (i.e. you can only buy one talisman or one character), if people wanna get more fragments they can but there is nothing to spend on.


If you actually enjoy in farming event dungeons and LoL (especially in fragments events), there is nothing I can say.

The troopers run is not my main point as it only takes like an hour (still, it's an unecessary hour everyday of battery wasting/server loading)

[MuzakMaker]

If you view it a waste of time then don't do it. Simple as that. I'm beginning to side with some of the others who are saying this is coming off as entitled.

Don't like it, don't do. Want the rewards, put it in the time.

And if you really don't like how much screen time is wasted on this game just stop playing. This game has transitioned to one that demands a lot of it and the team members on here have made it clear that they don't plan on that changing.

[Rain88]

If you view it a waste of time then don't do it. Simple as that. I'm beginning to side with some of the others who are saying this is coming off as entitled.

Don't like it, don't do. Want the rewards, put it in the time.

And if you really don't like how much screen time is wasted on this game just stop playing. This game has transitioned to one that demands a lot of it and the team members on here have made it clear that they don't plan on that changing.

I'm guessing you have plenty of time which gives you advantage in the current events schema. If that's the case it's understandable why you don't want it to change.

So you consider attempting to save people's time (those that doesn't enjoy grinding) and reducing the server load as "entitled"? That's your opinion.

You enjoy grinding for events, that's your thing. I don't enjoy it and I'm suggesting a feature that can save time... simple.

[EdManDan]

If you view it a waste of time then don't do it. Simple as that. I'm beginning to side with some of the others who are saying this is coming off as entitled.

Don't like it, don't do. Want the rewards, put it in the time.

And if you really don't like how much screen time is wasted on this game just stop playing. This game has transitioned to one that demands a lot of it and the team members on here have made it clear that they don't plan on that changing.

That is what I just did. I deleted the game and will never support anything Maiden after 40 yrs as a fan. In the long run a PS4 is cheaper and much more fun.

[Puntwothree]

@MusakMaker it sounds like you’ve mistaken @Rainmaker for a cloud. It’s an easy mistake to make. Kind of like squares and rectangles. You see, most Rainmakers are clouds, but not all clouds are Rainmakers.

What do you think of the supposition that the dev team could make the challenges more fun, interesting, and difficult w/an instant play feature in place... (no worries about our grind time) ... and the further supposition that they might have more time to fix the fixes that are important to you if their game didn’t keep crashing from all of our grinding hours.

I would much rather use my brain to try and find a way to 3* a difficult, challenging, and interesting dungeon than taking the thirty seconds it takes now to figure out what toon can wear Ragnarock, what toon can wear Starfire, and when I should press start before taking a nap.

[Maiden]

Mmm yes and no and yes and no (?)

Let´s analyze this. LotB its basically a puzzle game. We swap Talis and chars, trying to make the better/faster/stronger team combination according to the context given in order to finish as fast as you can as cheap as possible. Once you solve that puzzle (any dungeon) the game itself it´s almost done.

Then cames the grinding. With that, we wait to be lucky enough to receive drops we need/want. Also, we grind in order to complete the specifics rewards in every event.

So, after you reach some point in the game some things like Skull Quest are a chore. No puzzling, nothing to solve. Just a routine, there could be maybe a way to do it faster.

On the other hand, removing the farming is removing an experience, without the experience, I am afraid there is not much left to do here. I´m not saying grinding is nice but it gives you the sensation, the feeling of "progression" towards your objective. Also, on events, reaching some milestones its also rewarding in the meaning of accomplishment. With an "insta-click" I don´t know what might happen.

With this said, if you are proposing this feature for specific scenarios where there is not any puzzle left... well maybe yes. For any other event, it could be not so "pleasant". And also, if I were an artist working here, and you don´t even "play" a dungeon why it would matter to create scenarios? As a working team it could become expendable. The gaming could become so abstract that it could just wipe the experience itself. I know, I know, for every single thing that I say here there is a big "BUT..." too big to discuss writing on the forums.

Another discussion, it's the farming/hours situation, which we agree it´s already out of hands and nobody likes to have the phone plug 24/7 to achieve something. We have been asking fewer events, more spreaded along the month, and it's just not going to happen...

Also, at the same time, some people say that "Autoplay" ruined the game, other people say that it´s the best feature ever so you are gonna have a hard time trying to find agreement with this xD


PS: Blazpheme wtf mate? what´s the need to be so aggressive?

[Puntwothree]

One more point to add... there are a lot of problems with using time as soft cap. One example: the updates take about a day longer to reach iOS users than Android. Yes, there are workarounds... that’s not the point. The point is, if you eliminate time and battery health as soft caps, this kind of inequity wouldn’t matter as much, because time wouldn’t matter as much. Another tangential problem solved because of a good, simple idea.

Server update while a key is in progress? Maybe you didn’t see the red message until after you claimed the soul? Problem solved.

Endless stream of Compensation packs that has begun to trickle down to us, because of ^^. Unnecessary. We no longer need to be compensated for our lost time. There... now I’m asking for less. Am I still entitled?

Maybe the instant play is implemented, but the rewards aren’t as good (75%, maybe). Now you can decide whether to use time or ironite as a resource. What’s the difference between using ironite as a resource and buying resources with real money? Isn’t this a P2W model?

[MuzakMaker]

@MusakMaker it sounds like you’ve mistaken @Rainmaker for a cloud. It’s an easy mistake to make. Kind of like squares and rectangles. You see, most Rainmakers are clouds, but not all clouds are Rainmakers.

What do you think of the supposition that the dev team could make the challenges more fun, interesting, and difficult w/an instant play feature in place... (no worries about our grind time) ... and the further supposition that they might have more time to fix the fixes that are important to you if their game didn’t keep crashing from all of our grinding hours.

I would much rather use my brain to try and find a way to 3* a difficult, challenging, and interesting dungeon than taking the thirty seconds it takes now to figure out what toon can wear Ragnarock, what toon can wear Starfire, and when I should press start before taking a nap.

And what's the point if they make it more difficult, you solve the puzzle and then you never see that puzzle again?

And soft caps are incredibly important they help keep the game balanced.

This thread is all about instant gratification that you want but the devs will (most likely) never give you.

I don't boot up a game like halo and hate there are guns or play solitaire and hate that it's played with cards. Like it or not this game is going to force you to sit through all of those animations.


Not that your argument about my personal life was relevant but I work a full time job where I can't grind all day as I need my phone for work. I recognize that there are times where I won't to play a dungeon all day and I don't think there should be a magic button that can skip that if I solve the problem once. That would be a different game.

[Puntwothree]

Yeah, but... he’s excluding Frontier Dungeons. I mean, how often do you need to see a LOL magus X “puzzle” to figure out how it can be done? Or do you just pick a couple toons you like, forget your talis, and win anyway? @Maiden the non-frontier dungeons are hardly a component of Achievements. @Muzak in this game, you can press a magic button and your Cosmic Lilith becomes red and gets much better. Isn’t that instant gratification? Are you saying we should remove that feature, and wait 24-hours for our Cosmic Lilith to evolve? Wouldn’t that be more gratifying, because we “earned” it with the resource that is time? Wouldn’t that make the game more balanced, because people couldn’t have a red Lilith an hour after she was released? (And she wouldn’t appear on the same day in Gauntlet? Actually, at this point I’m not sure if I’m arguing for this idea or against...)

I agree, changing the system would make this a different game. It would make it a better game. But if you prefer your so-so game, you can ignore the instant play feature once it’s implemented and continue to let your batteries die while you work your full time job.

[MuzakMaker]

Yeah, but... he’s excluding Frontier Dungeons. I mean, how often do you need to see a LOL magus X “puzzle” to figure out how it can be done? Or do you just pick a couple toons you like, forget your talis, and win anyway? @Maiden the non-frontier dungeons are hardly a component of Achievements. @Muzak in this game, you can press a magic button and your Cosmic Lilith becomes red and gets much better. Isn’t that instant gratification? Are you saying we should remove that feature, and wait 24-hours for our Cosmic Lilith to evolve? Wouldn’t that be more gratifying, because we “earned” it with the resource that is time? Wouldn’t that make the game more balanced, because people couldn’t have a red Lilith an hour after she was released? (And she wouldn’t appear on the same day in Gauntlet? Actually, at this point I’m not sure if I’m arguing for this idea or against...)

I agree, changing the system would make this a different game. It would make it a better game. But if you prefer your so-so game, you can ignore the instant play feature once it’s implemented and continue to let your batteries die while you work your full time job.

Yes the button to upgrade is quick but the grinding to get the mats shouldn't be. That's not instant gratification that's putting in the time to push that button. I was able to instantly upgrade my Cosmic Lillith the day I got her but that was only because I had already been grinding LoL XV. That also meant that materials I had set aside to upgrade my Magus LoL were spent and now I have to re-earn those materials back. And no, I don't think that just because I have a team that can auto LoL X with 100% that I should be able to hit a magic button and suddenly my 600 sands from a mega refill are spent and I have a bunch of LoL Frontier keys and whatever other materials I would have picked up. I think we should have to sit through that time it takes the run them.

I can see you joined here just earlier this year. If you think the set up we have now is bad just be thankful you didn't play before auto play was added. We actually had to tend our phones for the hours it sat grinding.

[Puntwothree]

Did you say LOL frontier dungeon keys? Because frontier dungeons were excluded from this ^^.

Are you sure you want to argue that “time as a resource” is fair? Or does it just seem fair, because you had to go through it? Pressing the magic button on LOL X doesn’t help with Cosmic Lilith, it helps evolve Malco. In other words, this fix isn’t primarily helping me or you, it is primarily helping developing players who need to accelerate the grinding process to catch up.

Isn’t that your whole Schtick, like generally? To make the game more fair for everyone? The grind is just a Rite or Passage, and a frustrating one. Are you saying it’s important that new players go through it?

[Muzzleloader]

Other games I've seen had some auto complete, but at reduced rewards. I dont believe that it should be implemented in this game. If they did implement it, it should only be in the cosmos after you cleared that particular battle and then only 1/2 the rewards.

[MuzakMaker]

Did you say LOL frontier dungeon keys? Because frontier dungeons were excluded from this ^^.

Are you sure you want to argue that “time as a resource” is fair? Or does it just seem fair, because you had to go through it? Pressing the magic button on LOL X doesn’t help with Cosmic Lilith, it helps evolve Malco. In other words, this fix isn’t primarily helping me or you, it is primarily helping developing players who need to accelerate the grinding process to catch up.

Isn’t that your whole Schtick, like generally? To make the game more fair for everyone? The grind is just a Rite or Passage, and a frustrating one. Are you saying it’s important that new players go through it?

I said LoL X which grants those keys.

Yes I do think time as a resource is fair. Grinding LoL X does help with cosmic lillith as you need those keys I mentioned (which I personally have over 80 because I hoard like a mad man and don't play the LoL frontier dungeon often). Being able to instantly get a handful would cut down some time so that you can instantly go in to that frontier dungeon.

I'm jealous that new players didn't have to sit there and hit a couple buttons every minute or two (or if Lord of the Flies had been out at that point, every 15 seconds). Time is the one fair resource in this game. I can't magically buy an extra 2 hours that only I get. Yes, it sucks on those days where I don't get to be as efficient as possible because I'm at work all day on my phone, but at the end of the day it is just a game and if I have to the shiniest new thing I can always pay for it and get it or maybe re-evaluate if I actually want something or if it's just FOMO.

BTW: I wouldn't say the grind is a rite of passage. It's just simply what the game is, which is why I made the (admittedly kind of over the top) analogy of playing solitaire and not liking that there are cards.

And in all fairness if they ever did implement this of course I would abuse the hell out of it on non-event days. No grind event today? Boom quick ironite expenditure (because should have an additional cost) and I've got all my troopers played and my ironite from 120 SoT worth of Powerslave plus what ever other goodies I picked up. I would just rather the devs focus on fixing the larger problems in this game instead of implementing a whole brand new feature (same reason why I'm against clans being released in the broken state it was and still is).

[Puntwothree]

1/2 rewards? So, more stuff for “more effort?” Sounds like a compromise.

I also read your last post, so let’s take this thought experiment a step further. Do you think it would be better if the auto-reply feature were erased? i.e. truer to the way the game was meant to be? Is that really something anyone might want or vouch for?

I guess as is the game is headache-inducing at times, and erasing auto-reply would induce more headaches. So maybe that would be better for the game’s identity.

[Muzzleloader]

If they removed auto play then they would have to remove the grinding events as is. Some dungeon grinds can take 30+ hours so it would need to have the goals/challenges changed. I dont see a way to go back to all manual game play.

[Puntwothree]

@muzzleloader, @muzakmaker: apologies. I saw the Muz.. and leapt to an improper conclusion up there ^^. My last post may not have made sense.

[Puntwothree]

But, yes. Some events may need to change structurally to implement this.

[Rain88]

I'm not sure how the coding would handle it, but a further increase to the speed modifier during auto-play could be useful here.
No clue about the coding but it doesn't seem to be so easy unfortunately.


That is what I just did. I deleted the game and will never support anything Maiden after 40 yrs as a fan. In the long run a PS4 is cheaper and much more fun.

Sorry to hear you're deleting... It's totally understandable though... another founder is leaving...



On the other hand, removing the farming is removing an experience, without the experience, I am afraid there is not much left to do here. I´m not saying grinding is nice but it gives you the sensation, the feeling of "progression" towards your objective. Also, on events, reaching some milestones its also rewarding in the meaning of accomplishment. With an "insta-click" I don´t know what might happen.


At the start of the game I would have said yes, running dungeons was the only experience... But nowadays it's unecessary to run those dungeons with all of other features (such as Arena, Gauntlet, Raids...etc) that will acutally give you an experience (maybe experiencing a bugged gauntlet team lol) as opposed to mind numbing, reapeating the same task of running an event dungeon for 50 hours or a Powersalve run for the 1.4232 million time.


If they removed auto play then they would have to remove the grinding events as is. Some dungeon grinds can take 30+ hours so it would need to have the goals/challenges changed. I dont see a way to go back to all manual game play.

If they remove the endless grind events and the chores of troopers run, there won't be a need for my suggestion (and it would be better than having an instant feature). But it's obvious that these endless mindless grind events and trooper run chores are here to say, my suggestion was merely to make them less mind numbing and give casual players and new players a better chance. I can grind all day (my job allows me and i don't have a life), but that doesn't mean I want to or enjoy doing it...



I guess as is the game is headache-inducing at times, and erasing auto-reply would induce more headaches. So maybe that would be better for the game’s identity.
In my opinion, autoplay and frontier dungeons were never a good idea. it's what created the grind identity... At the start, it was an actual mobile game... complete your trooper runs and play some arena and get on with your life and occasinly run the special event dungeon which actually felt special. Adding the autoreply accelerated the shift towards the whole grind fest of frontier dungeons and endless grind events.