July 2020, Part 1 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Durandal_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (https://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?13697-July-2020-Part-1-Tuning-PRELIMINARY&p=126473#post126473).

[Beddie]

Cool choice for awakenable characters

[AndyCatzo]

and who is that Sevastopol? :eek::rolleyes:

[edsel]

Trooper dungeon farming eminent for new awakening shards and Sevastopol is Malakov's evil twin brother

[Madrik]

WTF..................nerfing invader when he was a clan reward.......you guys suck and bang out of order... it was a clan prize and some of us had to spend real money to buy ironite and you keep nerfing toons cus you dont want people to keep hitting top flight.. Don't release the toons that has that ability in the first place. I want the ironite back i used to get him.....

[Beddie]

and who is that Sevastopol? :eek::rolleyes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol

[Madrik]

Sevastopol is actually a place right below the ukraine north tip of the black sea

[druid138]

I'm going to guess that Sevastopol will be based on the female Russian sniper from WW2, Lyudmila Pavlichenko. There was a movie made about her a few years ago. Her story would fit perfectly with the Azov and Redan lore that was provided when Redan was first introduced:

"With her army destroyed and the only loyal sister – Lady Azov – at her side, The Baroness Redan joins the battle against the invaders of her homeland . . ."

Maybe she's even one of their descendants . . .

[Saints_sin]

I'm going to guess that Sevastopol will be based on the female Russian sniper from WW2, Lyudmila Pavlichenko. There was a movie made about her a few years ago. Her story would fit perfectly with the Azov and Redan lore that was provided when Redan was first introduced:

"With her army destroyed and the only loyal sister – Lady Azov – at her side, The Baroness Redan joins the battle against the invaders of her homeland . . ."

Maybe she's even one of their descendants . . .

Would be badass

[AhabsHarpoon]

WTF..................nerfing invader when he was a clan reward.......you guys suck and bang out of order... it was a clan prize and some of us had to spend real money to buy ironite and you keep nerfing toons cus you dont want people to keep hitting top flight.. Don't release the toons that has that ability in the first place. I want the ironite back i used to get him.....

COULDN'T AGREE MORE..
What a ballbag move on NF's part. Not surprised, but feels like an all-time low...

[Madrik]

COULDN'T AGREE MORE..
What a ballbag move on NF's part. Not surprised, but feels like an all-time low...

oh it low but not as low as upping the price of the legendary awakening packs to more than half the price and then having the nerve to say it was a BUG in the system, do they really think were that stupid and dont know what they are doing........shame they dont spend too much time looking at these forums to see how much they are really pissing players off. what it wants if for every player who has it to demand the cost of the ironite back we used to grind for it

[Muzzleloader]

The all time low may have been when the devaluated frag values and changed the new value without giving a specific date.

[Madrik]

they certainly aint getting anymore of my money, they can go swivel for it..NF be going into administration at the rate their going

[Madrik]

just stop with the constant updates of events,toons, talismans etc and fix the damn game, stop hiking prices, lowering the drop rates of frags, increase the drop rates of awakening materials, stop hiking prices of items thats already appeared in store before. play the game you create and maybe you will see exactly what people are getting so annoyed about.......

[GrimDusk]

Alright, let's analyze these changes.

To begin, we can expect the first half of the month to be trooper themed and second half infernal themed, if last summer was anything to go off.

Mystic Eddie's change is nice. A good little fix for an outdated ability.
Viking Ed's nerf was inevitable. No more soloing Odin with Blood Axe, especially with Viking Invader Ed. Upgrading Call to Arms was helpful, but it appears this is the end for Viking Invader Ed's reign.
Edward the Great's changes seems pretty neat; nothing super game-changing, but still pretty neat.
Baroness Redan's passive change looks kinda busted to be honest; changing her passive to be innate makes her a lot scarier. Considering she will become Awakenable, that's pretty concerning.
Warlord and Bastion's changes are nice, but nothing crazy good.
Azov becoming Awakenable with her sister is very neat; I wonder which will win out in the better set of abilities.
Sevastopol is some new Assassin character that fits the Trooper's themes, but I hope he doesn't look like the other crimean soldiers. Their designs kinda bore me.
Finally, that T3 Trooper Cosmic looks pretty neat, but I doubt it'll be useful since the Trooper Eds aren't exactly the best.

Overall, neat changes. Nothing crazy, but pretty good.

[Yup]

I'm kind of turned off by the distractions... just character updates and no new content. And no, repeat dungeons of repeat dungeons of repeat dungeons don't count.. Dangling a pretty ribbon in the awakening area hoping you won't notice there's still no Silent Planet or Avalon.... Azov was useful for 10 minutes when released, Bastion and Warlord even less.. Baroness.. maybe a full day. These aren't great characters to start.. wasted effort updating them.. just distractions.

Y'all need to check out "RAID" -- same exact game with more detail and scope minus the Maiden slant. I do much prefer the art style in LotB, but RAID is light years ahead of y'all in terms of character variety, scope, and MANAGEABLE inventories.

[Phoenix-7282]

Nice to see Redan become awakenable with a changed passive. Now she is worth the FC spent. The buffs to trooper characters should help newer players.

So you "fixed" Viking invader Eddie. How about also fixing actual bugs with the raids feature? Such as many characters healing Odin when his hp becomes low. Or characters seemingly dying permanently even though they weren't affected with permadeath.

Still looking forward to the update though. I am curious about the changes to characters once they become awakened.

[Mario.Ahner]

Just spend more money, then NF will surely fix all the bugs and will also stop nerfing toons you paid for

[Maiden]

Finally some nice char selection for awakening! And good addressing old toons... but I keep repeating myself every tune-up... what's happening with addressing the current bugs in-game?

Just some of them:

-BABYLON is cleaning every type of debuff, not only silvers.
-Toons in Arena are counterattacking TWICE.
-Under some circumstances, VALHALLA keeps reviving the whole team once the wearer it's killed. I saw it happen with Midgard as well.
-In most cases EDDIES IN BAPHOMET OR ODIN DON´T REVIVE, they don't have perma effects or whatever. Even I saw a battle when and Eddie got down, revived but the battle ENDED ANYWAY like it didnt registered at all the Eddie going up again.
-In some cases in Arena or Baphomet, Yggradssill doesn't work at all. It's like it isn´t there at all. No, there was no Odin Fury or any other effect.
-Btw, you bugged Banshee again with the last update.

[Madrik]

Just spend more money, then NF will surely fix all the bugs and will also stop nerfing toons you paid for

yeah of course they will.. they release the toons with specific skills then realise they cocked up cus its costing them, so they nerf those toons people have either paid for or spent money to get resources to grind to get said toon. total disregard for the people who play this game and its the whales out there who keep feeding them, causing them not to fix what they broke

[Madrik]

fixing invader when he wasnt broke is a bit of a major kick in the balls for the players who had to grind hard to get him.....yet another massive BALLS UP by the DEVS again.........

[Madrik]

lets look at it this way if people wasn't sharing raid teams on here then chances of devs finding out how players are exploiting certain toons would mean less chance of toons being nerfed. i mean if they was playing it then bugs would be fixed pretty quick....so we owe it to those players really

[MuzakMaker]

Let me join in on voicing my frustration for the Viking Invader nerf. We grinded and worked hard for this ed to only find out he was pretty worthless except for one very specific scenario that could only be used once a week. It sucked work hard to find him nearly worthless but that one use was nice and had the great balance of being locked to once (or I guess up to 4 times with all four amulets but let's be honest that would be a waste of amulets) a week.

Now he has 0 uses. He's just going to join the countless list of eds and allies that just sit on the bench. What a waste of our time and energy. I can't imagine how mad I would be if I was one of the many who actually spent real money to get him.

[Madrik]

you mean like myself, who havent been playing as long as some of you so don't have a massive ironite stash so had no choice but to spend real money to buy resources....Not because i wanted it, but because my CLANMATES wanted to achieve something as a team.......whats the use in having clan events to win something if your going to make it utter useless in a few weeks....not that it bothers the devs much cus all they are bothered about in ££'s going into their bank accounts.....they dont care how much they annoy the players, they dont care how many bugs there is, they dont care if the servers cant cope...so putting it in basic terms they dont give too hoots about anybody but themselves....there you go NF stick that up ya pipe and smoke it...yes im pee'd off. Majorly....they probs will ignore this post because lets fce it if they cant fix a game over the last 3 years then they aint gonna care about a post on a forum......................

[AndyCatzo]

you mean like myself, who havent been playing as long as some of you so don't have a massive ironite stash so had no choice but to spend real money to buy resources....Not because i wanted it, but because my CLANMATES wanted to achieve something as a team.......whats the use in having clan events to win something if your going to make it utter useless in a few weeks....not that it bothers the devs much cus all they are bothered about in ££'s going into their bank accounts.....they dont care how much they annoy the players, they dont care how many bugs there is, they dont care if the servers cant cope...so putting it in basic terms they dont give too hoots about anybody but themselves....there you go NF stick that up ya pipe and smoke it...yes im pee'd off. Majorly....they probs will ignore this post because lets fce it if they cant fix a game over the last 3 years then they aint gonna care about a post on a forum......................

I think that the devs should not be blamed for decisions like the price or nerfs to characters. I agree that there are a lot of bugs in the game and they should be blamed for that, but for price change$ and all real money related things the ones that should be blamed are the men/women in suits. As a developer I can tell you that decisions like those are all coming from the upper management and departments that have nothing to do with IT and we have no decision on them (even if we don't like them), we can give our opinion but at the end, we develop what we were asked (at least that is how things work in my work). and just to be clear, I'm not trying to defend them because there are a lot of bugs in the game and the majority of them are like rookie mistakes but I think we should blame them (the developers) for what they really deserve the blame.

[MuzakMaker]

Cause of bugs in the code: developers

Cause of the bugs making it to the live version: code architects approving changes to go live without verification and management for caring about a bottom line and not whether or not the code actually works.

Blaming the proper people is important.

As a developer I know bugs happen but I also know there should be dedicated QA and management who make sure that bugs don't make it live or that when they do those bugs are rectified in a timely manner. That latter part seems to be where this game falls flat on its face.

[Madrik]

Those players who don't have the balls to speak up and say how pee'd of they are about nerfing toons that are clan prizes then they are part of the problem for letting them get away with it..., people keep feeding them money are also part of the problem. why should they fix it when the company is still making money from it......no one buys anything they cant make profit, no profit the company re-evaluates its sales. pretty simple really. Lower prices increases sales more sales means more profit more profit mean they can grow bigger, grow bigger means less bugs as there's more departments to take care of it rather than leaving it down to a small team of devs to split their work load in other areas of the company.....

[Muzzleloader]

Then vote with your wallet. If you convince enough players not to spend money then you may see changes, complaining about the same thing with nothing to back it up does no good but to vent your anger.

Thinking they wont nerf a broken toon, Invaders Blood Axe, you are living in a fantasy world.

[Madrik]

how is he broken ? He isnt his passive is how they designed it

[MuzakMaker]

Then vote with your wallet. If you convince enough players not to spend money then you may see changes, complaining about the same thing with nothing to back it up does no good but to vent your anger.

Thinking they wont nerf a broken toon, Invaders Blood Axe, you are living in a fantasy world.

Except for how broken was he really? As I mentioned he was pointless outside of Odin Raids which has plenty of methods to prevent "abuse". He gets retired after every fight and if you want to use him again you have to gamble with a resource that is one of the rarest in the game. There was already plenty of balance there.

Outside of Odin Raids he is nothing special all of his utility comes from talismans which you can put on any of the better toons. I'm all for keeping the game balanced but if anything he needed a buff to extend his use outside of his one use.

As far as the "vote with your wallet" all of us non whales don't mean shit to the management team. Whales always buy regardless of whether or not the game works or is balanced and they will always outspend the non whales. Take it from someone with industry experience, the game will see an increase in spending if they stop only paying attention to the whales. In fact they might even pick up a few more whales if the game actually worked.

[Madrik]

Outside of Raids he's absolutely useless.. His passive gets disabled so blood axe don't work, There's one work around, perfect disable there's another, silence there's another, perfect corruption oh look there's another one, there is plenty of balance outside of ODIN.
This is the devs way of sticking a spanner in the works cus they dont like the fact a single eddie can take down odin, thanks to players sharing teams on here so devs can see exactly what toons to nerf....

[Madrik]

my max cyborg team can take down an invader eddie team with no issues he's not a toon thats a threat, he's piss easy to take down with the right toons. only threat is to the dev team cus the MD dont like the fact they are giving out too many rewards

[MuzakMaker]

You don't even need a max cyborg team to take him down. Even with his bespoke he's still worthless.

[Alvorada]

Meanwhile, a lot of actual bugs reigns over Arena.

[Nifelheim]

..., thanks to players sharing teams on here so devs can see exactly what toons to nerf....

There are next to nothing in posts sharing Odin teams and zero about Invader/Viking Eddie for Odin. Devs don’t need to look at forums either, they can see in game what teams are being used. They have said as much with gauntlet teams based on most used arena teams, etc.

That being said, I appreciate the post with the baph teams, and wish a Odin I-X post would be posted.

[MuzakMaker]

There are next to nothing in posts sharing Odin teams and zero about Invader/Viking Eddie for Odin. Devs don’t need to look at forums either, they can see in game what teams are being used. They have said as much with gauntlet teams based on most used arena teams, etc.

That being said, I appreciate the post with the baph teams, and wish a Odin I-X post would be posted.

If you want teams you're going to have to join one of the few discords. There's a reason the forums have really died down.

[Lord Schmeb]

Comment removed

[jstrickPhoto]

Wonder how long today's "game update" outage will be... At least this time I wasn't in the middle of a 2-hour dungeon battle...

[Madrik]

Comment removed

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha how about come and do it yourself.......keyboard warriors pmfsl

[BeachPlease]

My clan still has Odin at level X and no refreshed toons :( why?
Invader's update seems very unfair, at least I hope he doesn't inflict perfect bleed to self any more.
I wish you adressed other issues, e.g. those characters that heal Odin

[Saints_sin]

when will ST amulets be returned to players?

[Zugzwang]

Was invader Eddie ever good? I don’t think I’ve ever used that one even with the T3 cosmic. Viking Eddie’s fury was better is all I remember.

[MuzakMaker]

Was invader Eddie ever good? I don’t think I’ve ever used that one even with the T3 cosmic. Viking Eddie’s fury was better is all I remember.

That's the thing he was pointless except for the fact that his power move gave us a 100% success rate Odin X.

Now that's gone and we are left with Jack all after grinding through 25000 dungeon runs. Real kick in the teeth if you ask me.

[Yup]

Invader is still a great farming Ed.

[Geodude]

We have two dozen other great farming eds. They removed the one thing that made him special, especially for all those who spent so much for him. That and reducing the extra turns. I was also trying to decide on a few toons to max awaken, including viking, when I saw these planned nerfs, otherwise would have been doubly pissed.

[Muzzleloader]

Anyone who thought they weren't going to nerf blood axe was living in a fantasy world.

[MuzakMaker]

Anyone who thought they weren't going to nerf blood axe was living in a fantasy world.

It is sad that we are kidding ourselves to think that the powers that be wouldn't ignore player satisfaction, feedback, or even play their own game. But I'm going to be frank nerfing viking ed isn't the problem but is once again proving that the team rarely fixes problems in the game but instead just fixes the symptoms.

This isn't like he's an older character who predates Odin and has gone through multiple nerfs/buffs. He was designed as part of our arsenal against Odin and now is worthless in that part of the game. Looking at other toons all of their reworks lately have been to make them viable in raids. Viking invader was intentionally made to be worthless there.

Let's look at the damage if he would have been kept as is. At max you have 29 players who can use him 5 times a week for a total for 435000 raid points with an extra 3000 for unlucky soul who unlocked Odins 1-9 and can't guarantee that their amulets will refresh Viking invader. You still have over half of the way to SSS to go and frankly you've wasted those amulets. With proper planning and talisman management you can get more than 6000 raid points(assuming they optimized and also used it to also refresh a 3 toon team out of a single amulet. 1,000,000 isn't nearly as big as hurdle with Baphomet in the mix.

If anything this tells me that raid points need to be re-balanced not one character who players slogged their way through one of the worst server laden periods of the game to play frontier dungeons 25000 times. The time and resources that are now wasted is the insult not that, yet again, the change is only addressing a symptom and not the cause.

[Geodude]

Hmm, bait and switch, anyone? Seems to be a recurring theme here: dangle the expensive carrot with the great op 'bugs', wait til word gets out and everyone's gone crazy spending all their resources to get it, then just nerf it later once they've made their money and everyone's moved on, snicker snicker. How many times have we seen this? Yawn. What was the name of that other similar, better game that was mentioned, Raids? Think I might check that out soon.

[MuzakMaker]

Hmm, bait and switch, anyone? Seems to be a recurring theme here: dangle the expensive carrot with the great op 'bugs', wait til word gets out and everyone's gone crazy spending all their resources to get it, then just nerf it later once they've made their money and everyone's moved on, snicker snicker. How many times have we seen this? Yawn. What was the name of that other similar, better game that was mentioned, Raids? Think I might check that out soon.

Hey, at least this time they didn't release a $99 USD pack containing him right before the announcing the nerf. That BS move they pulled with Banshees was one of the shadiest things they've ever done.

[Yup]

Anyone who thought they weren't going to nerf blood axe was living in a fantasy world.

Especially considering they nerfed the same thing for Viking several months ago.

[MuzakMaker]

Especially considering they nerfed the same thing for Viking several months ago.

The problem with that logic is that with Viking wasn't a nerf but a retooling for awakening and he went from being a benchwarmer to getting some use in the game. Had they done something to combat the problem that invader was only useful in one aspect of the game by buffing other aspects while removing the power gained by that move there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash.

Again, the complaint is not that we lost an Eddie who can solo odin (considering odin is less worthwile than Baph) but that an Eddie who we spent literal days of grinding to get is now worthless.

[Geodude]

And they also nerfed both viking and viking invader eds with the decreased extra turn chance, plus invader's decrease in power gained. So now regular viking is now much less effective as well, with the decreased extra turn chance now on both his power moves, maraud and blood axe. Seems excessive. Why nerf maraud as well? It just healed, no attack. 2 good eds, now pretty meh. Thanks again.

[Yup]

Again, the complaint is not that we lost an Eddie who can solo odin (considering odin is less worthwile than Baph) but that an Eddie who we spent literal days of grinding to get is now worthless.

How long you been playing??

Your statement could be said about at least 30% of the Eddies....

But what I mean is long before awakening.. Viking's Marauder gave him infinite extra turns, the same way Blood Axe was giving Invader infinite extra turns.. they nerfed that then for Viking -- again this was months before "awakening" was even a thing.... so it's reasonable to expect when they FINALLY get around to actually testing Invader and see the same issue.. they nerf it there too.

None of this is "new". In fact, if you DON'T expect your favorite Ed/character to get nerfed.. you're overlooking history. Once an Ed/character shows he has a unique ability to make something drastically easier than all other characters..... they remove or cripple that benefit. It's not something they just started doing with Invader Ed.

... just wait until a few months pass and they start nerfing the Odins....

[Intimidator]

Maraud was perfect for the “do x times power move” and then fury during arena events.
Yeah, they both got the snip.

[Phoenix-7282]

I am just going to point out something. The devs sure nerfed blood axe very quickly but haven't fixed the actual bug with that move. It still applies perfect bleed to invader Eddie himself. Not just the enemies.

[Yup]

Dev's Standard To Do List

#1: Remove any unexpected behavior which benefits players
#2: Everything else

[Azagthor]

I am just going to point out something. The devs sure nerfed blood axe very quickly but haven't fixed the actual bug with that move. It still applies perfect bleed to invader Eddie himself. Not just the enemies.

I originally assumed the perfect bleed on himself was intended, as the downside to the guaranteed extra turn. You could keep using it infinitely with Invader Eddie, but if you messed up, or the enemy countered it somehow, you'd be in a lot of trouble.


I like today's hotfix changing the Trooper keys in the Trooper store to key souls, that will be very useful.

[Phoenix-7282]

I like today's hotfix changing the Trooper keys in the Trooper store to key souls, that will be very useful. Thanks for pointing that out. That is a nice change.

[Geodude]

Lol, ya I started clicking on them, thinking they were souls, to stock up on trooper keys for the event, just before they made the change, then realized oh no those arent souls, just wasted 15000 trooper badges and had to scramble to set up a team and all the talis etc that second to get at least a bit of use out of one of the 3 keys I just opened :)
Then they made the change the next day, so I went looking for them in the store, and found a free Viral key instead, and opened that, again thinking it was a soul, from the new change. Then, oh no that's not a soul, again,... Lol. What an idiot :) At least I didn't have to scramble to use up the 16 hour viral key grumble grumble.
Great change though, going forward. Wish they'd be consistent and make them all souls in the store, though i can see how some would like having the key open immediately - I'm not one of them though :)

[MuzakMaker]

How long you been playing??

Your statement could be said about at least 30% of the Eddies....

But what I mean is long before awakening.. Viking's Marauder gave him infinite extra turns, the same way Blood Axe was giving Invader infinite extra turns.. they nerfed that then for Viking -- again this was months before "awakening" was even a thing.... so it's reasonable to expect when they FINALLY get around to actually testing Invader and see the same issue.. they nerf it there too.

None of this is "new". In fact, if you DON'T expect your favorite Ed/character to get nerfed.. you're overlooking history. Once an Ed/character shows he has a unique ability to make something drastically easier than all other characters..... they remove or cripple that benefit. It's not something they just started doing with Invader Ed.

... just wait until a few months pass and they start nerfing the Odins....

I have been playing for years and complaining for years.

Just because this has been happening doesn't make it a good thing or something we should be ok with.

The fact that so many eds are benchwarmers was part of my complaint.

Of course they're going to nerf Odins once a lot of us have him and that's because the team doesn't make balanced characters and don't bother with balancing until they can't ignore how badly they were made in the first place.

I'm glad you can be content with how poorly this game has been ran but I will keep complaining about the poor practices that are all over this app.

[MuzakMaker]

Thanks for pointing that out. That is a nice change.

In sake of calling out smart choices I too appreciate this change A LOT.

Now if only all keys in the stores were souls.