Permanent kill bugged?

[Bartman9999]

Just got king arthur and started trying him and False Gods Ed in arena, found that their permanent kill effects are quite inconsistent...
The target of the permanent kill effect sometimes just revives for no reason, often they look as a dead toon that will keep hitting your team, other times they'll look just fine.

Seems to me that ROT talismans are preventing these permanent-kill effects. Is this a bug? or is the way it was supposed to work? The abilities of KA and FGE describe that they'll ignore "immunity to permadeath", and they seem to also ignore "immunity to perfect death and innate permadeath" on a defense with a Grim Reaper passive active. Is the effect of the rot talisman bugged? If is the way it should work, it's not clear...

Also, if "might on" King Arthur kills an enemy with his fury, but this enemy is intantly revived, the "kill another random enemy effect" will not trigger.

Last, when are we getting some way of tracking "innate and invisible effects" (not with bugged visuals, please"). Icons or description once you click will work. This is really needed, even more with lots of abilities that are able to cleanse the innate effect, it's sometimes impossible to track if a toon has innate health block, passive dissabled or whatever.

Fixing the game should be top priority... adding new toons and content now looks like adding floors to a building with rotten foundations.

[GrimDusk]

Okay so, this is actually a coding thing. Those instant kill effects are coded as Doom, not permadeath. If the enemy team is immune to doom/apparition, or something along those lines, it won't work. It's dumb but that's how it is.

[Maiden]

Rot gives immunity to all permadeath effects, including "innate" effects. So, toons like Dark Lilith (innate permadeath) cannot prevent a toon wearing Rot from reviving. To prevent Rot (and any other talisman/toon with immunity to innate permadeath) from reviving you need Oni's Fury: "Enemies with immunity to innate permadeath cannot longer prevent empowered attacks for kill them permanently"

There is also the case of Dark Advent Lilith, which strictly says this basic move "cannot be prevented" which also perma kills Rot users. Iirc there are similar situations with Brave talisman or Baphomets furys (which I don't remember if they work as they should). If the toon doesn't avoid innate immunities means that is only working on a base level of "permadeath". All pretty chaotic indeed.

[Bartman9999]

The effects are working against teams with the brave talisman, they can even target brave talisman wearers... which gives immunity to doom, apparition, permadeath, and silver and innate effects. It also bypasses GRE passive (kinda like the brave effect). Or lilith cosmic talisman, or Ancient mariner passive (immunity to doom)... so the problem is not that is "coded as Doom". It has to be something else, my bet is that Rot talisman are bugged.

[Barthax]

As a side-line conversation, has anyone found any documented suggestion of the tiers of effects. Seems to be a problem with many abilities with understanding what order or severity there is.

Permadeath
Immunity to Permadeath
Perfect Death
Immunity to Perfect Death and permadeath
Innate Permadeath
Immunity to innate Permadeath (Day of the Dead Eddie)
Oni's empowered Permadeath?
Immunity even to unblockable permadeath (this is ambigiously there in Day of the Dead Eddie, for example)

[4V1ct0ry]

To prevent Rot (and any other talisman/toon with immunity to innate permadeath) from reviving you need Oni's Fury: "Enemies with immunity to innate permadeath cannot longer prevent empowered attacks for kill them permanently"

Actually I already had a few times where reviving did occur even Oni's sword was empowered.
Anyone else had this?

[Maiden]

As a side-line conversation, has anyone found any documented suggestion of the tiers of effects. Seems to be a problem with many abilities with understanding what order or severity there is.

Permadeath
Immunity to Permadeath
Perfect Death
Immunity to Perfect Death and permadeath
Innate Permadeath
Immunity to innate Permadeath (Day of the Dead Eddie)
Oni's empowered Permadeath?
Immunity even to unblockable permadeath (this is ambigiously there in Day of the Dead Eddie, for example)

It is absolutely chaotic, right?
I think your list is correct. But some distinction involves Oni. Once he is maxed, his passive overrides the immunity to innate permadeath...

GRE gives immunity to all kind of permadeaths, even innates or unblockeable. So, GRE(Immunity)>DARK LILITH (innate permadeath)

Now, Oni's Fury empowers his sword, and his passive says that toons with immunity to innate permadeath can't work if Oni kills you (which is also bugged but thats another story). So this is a deeper level of permadeath, actually is the deepest one. Like a mega permadeath... but devs didn't name it, it just "well, once Oni does his Fury you cant revive, period" You can find something similar with VALOR talismans: they put heal block BUT IS NOT A HEALTH BLOCK, so how you name it? nobody knows...


Actually I already had a few times where reviving did occur even Oni's sword was empowered.
Anyone else had this?

Was Oni maxed? The only toon (bugged) able to revive someone after Oni's fury is Lazy Azov. If there is another I haven't seen it. But in this game...

[4V1ct0ry]

Was Oni maxed? The only toon (bugged) able to revive someone after Oni's fury is Lazy Azov. If there is another I haven't seen it. But in this game...
Yep... I will keep an eye open when this happens.
I don't recall anymore in what situation was (toons/talisman) but this happen several times during last arena event