Experiment: Estimation of the real droprates for 3* Runes and dungeon loot

[slauki]

LAST UPDATE: 30.10.2016 (103 Rounds of the Helloween special event)

Dear LOTB-Community,

i'm sick of hints like "play level xyz and you will get 3* red runes".

thats why i will run an experiment to estimate the real droprates in some specific levels.

In theory it's very easy to estimate the dropchances. You play an infinite number of rounds and count everything you get. this will lead you directly to the real dropchances. unfortunatly this is nothing we can do in practice.
So the best method would be to play enough rounds to get significant numbers. I think several thousands of rounds should be enough to have real good estimations, but that's also too much for one individual.

So i will try this:

i will play several hundreds of rounds to check the droprates.

My hypothesis is, that the chances should be equal in any level of a specific world. maybe the bossstages have slightly other dropchances, but i doubt that too. We can check this by the end of the experiment.
If someone will join me, he/she is welcome, since every additional round will give us better results. i also got only 80 sands of time, and i'm not willing to spend too much ironite before the new updates changes the problems.


Please beware, that i've not finished yet, but i'm confident to publish my first observations. i'm totaly aware that 150 round is a way to small number to get serious results, but it is a start.

I played the following level on auto or manually and counted every 3* runes which dropped. When none dropped i counted that too, thats how the numbers are constructed (i hate myself for not counting the ironite, but i ignored that):

Underworld madness:

1581

1576

1577

1578

Battlefield madness (maybe i messed something up on matter of life and dead pre update, the numbers seem to be too symmertric):

1579

1582

Kingdom of the Sands madness:

1580

You see that the dropchances are very similar in the different two levels. the 5% difference could easily be just variance. i think that the dropchances of 3*runes are about 33% but we will see, what comes up in the future.
The chances that a rainbow drops is about 10%. While this seems okay on paper you have to play 10 rounds on avarage for one rainbow 3*rune. So you need 90 to level up a talisman. but you can only play 58 times a day
without buying ironite. for theory purposes i'm igniring the extra sands of time you can earn). so if these numbers are right you have to play 1,5 days with an optimal use of sands of time to upgrade one single talisman. that's a very
high time investment for one single talisman...

I also played the dungeon on lexel X and counted the times i got premium loot (rare soul, 3* evo shard or specific 3* evo shard). here are the numbers.

Thanks to anonymous

1583

1584

since i have not counted the lower levels i cannot compare the results, but these numbers are quite interesting, i think.

i will try to continue working on this, so that we can compare the actual dropchances with the dropchances after the new updates.

if you got a level where you think the dropchances are really great, let me know about it. i'm sure if we play the level often enough we should have similar results compared with other levels at the same stage.

Helloween special:

1755

[aur0ra85]

Great work. This post is reserved.

[Eagleknight]

Nice work!

[The Educated fool]

An interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing.

[Ddrak]

Thx slauki.

[slauki]

you're welcome guys :-) updated new numbers right now. i will try to update when i got a significant amount of rounds together.

[aur0ra85]

Ill post something when I have some concrete info to post. Looks like 6 sands of time ATM to upgrade one character to 5 stars according to your stats. :/

[slauki]

Ill post something when I have some concrete info to post. Looks like 6 sands of time ATM to upgrade one character to 5 stars according to your stats. :/

glad to hear, that you are going to help. i'm curious about your numbers....

to upgrade one char to 5* it looks like you need 8*80 sands of time if you want to earn 6 evoshards.

you have to play 80 rounds on avarage if the estimation is some kind of accurate (as it should be). each round costs 8 sand of time. So 80*8 = 640 Sand of time in total.

640 sands of time = 8 times 80 sands of time...

and if you got unlucky you can easily play 12 times the sands of time till you got 6 3* rainbow shards.... that's really dirty.
but they will do something about it, they said...let's pray for that.

[MuadDib-7367]

Other factors that should be considered are as follows:

1) the cost of playing each round such that a sands of time cost per 3* rune can be determined. It may be more cost effective to play madness in Kingdom of the Sands vs. Underworld

2) Ironite and additional sands of time drop rates. If these droprates differ from world to world, it may be more cost beneficial to play a world other than Underworld madness

3) Amount of credits earned per battle is a constant, but since credits are needed to level up talisman and characters, teh amount of credits dropped per battle is another consideration.

Having said all of that, slauki should be commended for all the work ha has done. I would not have had the patience to document all of that. It is encouraging to think that the drop rates are the same across battles. That will make it easier to identify the most cost beneficial battles to autofarm.

For now, I am farming Matter of Life and Death, Madness as it drops 3* runes and random sands of time and ironite along with $5k credits. I was doing the prisoner, but it drops $1k less credits and I do not need any of those talisman at the moment.

[jakalope]

Great thread. Thanks for taking the time slauki. I, like everybody else, feel the droprate for premium items drops far too seldom. Appreciate you taking the time to prove this out.

[slauki]

you are totally right with your considerations. i'm working on matter of life and dear right now, it seems to be better in terms of sands of time and ironite drops, but that's only a feeling.
only your gold argument is in my opinion neglectable at the moment, because the most endgame players sit on millions and millions of gold and have no idea how to spend it. that's a common endgame problem, that's
why i think we can neglect the gold factor.

so far it seems, that the droprate of 3* runes is a little lower than on underworld madness. but that's also still a guess, because the numbers are very small.

i will also try kingdoms of sands, but unless someone wants to buy me ironite it will take some time :-D i belive the 3* droprates are much lower, but this is only gut feeling. will try to verificate/falsificate that any time soon...

First observations matter of life and dead madness:

1116

[MuadDib-7367]

Wow, that was quick :) Thanks for the preliminary figures. Knowing that we are dealing with small sample sizes, I'm happy to continue auto farming Matter of Life and Death knowing that I'm not giving up much statistically for the convenience of autofarming. Be interesting to see if the Powerslave drop rate is 20% lower (which is what you would expect since its 4 vs. 5 sands of time to battle).

[slauki]

Wow, that was quick :) Thanks for the preliminary figures. Knowing that we are dealing with small sample sizes, I'm happy to continue auto farming Matter of Life and Death knowing that I'm not giving up much statistically for the convenience of autofarming. Be interesting to see if the Powerslave drop rate is 20% lower (which is what you would expect since its 4 vs. 5 sands of time to battle).

tell me please with which team do you use to autofarm matter of life and dead? the damned axis soldiers and the bomber boys with their extraturns smash me on auto sometimes, that sucks really hard. they got 5 extra turns and the AI cannot do anything to avoid it.

btw: can you please push your burning mummy dog to level 100 so that i can put him in my maximized characters thread? :-)

[MuadDib-7367]

tell me please with which team do you use to autofarm matter of life and dead? the damned axis soldiers and the bomber boys with their extraturns smash me on auto sometimes, that sucks really hard. they got 5 extra turns and the AI cannot do anything to avoid it.

Solider Eddie (4 yellow, 2 fierce strength build)
Pharaoh Sun Spirit (nearly maxxed with 6 fierce strength talisman)
Wicker Man (4 fierce iron talisman, 2 overwhelming stone talisman- all 4* or higher)

I am able to kill all or all but a single villain after round 1 of each level. PSS usually does a heal during the boss battle. I suspect any 5* warrior class with 4* or higher talisman would have a good shot at doing it. I don't have Corrupt General, but I think he would probably work as well. Any toon that packs an AOE wallop along with PSS should do it. Hope that helps!

[Demoonchild]

Wow!! Amazing share Mr. Slauki, nice contribution as always!!

[Nekroliun]

That seems like ALLOT spent from valuable time u couldve used to eat pizza or eat a burger or watch anime, considering what you couldve done and what u decided to do was to help the community, thanks.

Btw how could rare soul drop rates be that low? I understand its not accurate but i got like 3 in a row... On lord of light X

[Kardas]

I thought Battlefield Madness was better than Underworld Madness in terms of 3* rainbow rune drops, but I guess that was RNG.

I don't think I ever encountered 3* evo runes of any color on KotS Madness though, but it's been a while since I went there

Excellent work though, very interesting read.

[vgta99]

With you model Slauki, I will made for Shadows in the Valley (Underworld Madness).
I will include Sands of time, gold (not very important but it's for me) and Ironite.
So see you in 150 rounds later...

[slauki]

With you model Slauki, I will made for Shadows in the Valley (Underworld Madness).
I will include Sands of time, gold (not very important but it's for me) and Ironite.
So see you in 150 rounds later...

thanks vgta, your help is very appreciated...

@ nekroliun: when you play a lot (and i mean 1500 rounds +) you will face streaks of 20-30 rounds withouth getting anything usefull. sometimes you get 3 in a row, but in the long run you will always get, what the dropchances allow you to get :-)

[aur0ra85]

Sorry, was busy and didn't have time for maths I guess lol.
I've probably done 15 sands of time on the red rift today, auto, level 10, and only received 6 rainbow shards. It's atrocious. I'm quite salty towards the team for this. Does the drop rate have a variable attached for players with many 5 star characters? Am I getting a nerfed drop rate?not happy about it, what an incredible waste of time.

[slauki]

Sorry, was busy and didn't have time for maths I guess lol.
I've probably done 15 sands of time on the red rift today, auto, level 10, and only received 6 rainbow shards. It's atrocious. I'm quite salty towards the team for this. Does the drop rate have a variable attached for players with many 5 star characters? Am I getting a nerfed drop rate?not happy about it, what an incredible waste of time.

yeah, thats how i feel sometimes :-). what do you mean with 15 sands of time? 15 times 80 sands of time?

i'm sure that they have no variability for any specific player. the only thing that came to my mind is, that they maybe realize when you play the same level over and over again, that the droprates seems to be more beside trash.
but i think that's my personal paranoia, i don't think that they have that implemented. when you play a lot you will get streaks when you don't earn anything special. the chances aren't so low:

lets say the droprate for premium in the dungeon is 20%. so 80% of the time you will get trash. the chance, that you will get 10 times trash in a row are 0.8^10 = 10.73%. So the chances are about 10% that you burn 80 sands of time and gain nothing good. it's a shame. especially because the chances for premiums could be even lower 15%-17%...

[aur0ra85]

15 times 80 sands of time. 15 full refills. 6 white shards.
TBH, the only premium loot here for me are the rare souls and the white shards. The white shards seem to be so rare that the three star upgrade shards of every colour are increasing in my inventory, faster than I can spend them. The bottle neck appears to be the white shards. :/
Might be over 20 refills at this point, I think I'm over 2 million in gold gained.

[JakkuFurosu]

Thanks for work you guys putting into this. I did a few runs between last night and today and got zip, kinda really blows as im near topping my talis and was feeling brickwalled, moreso now reading stats and seeing stories. guess ill start working on 3 and 4*s

[slauki]

15 times 80 sands of time. 15 full refills. 6 white shards.
TBH, the only premium loot here for me are the rare souls and the white shards. The white shards seem to be so rare that the three star upgrade shards of every colour are increasing in my inventory, faster than I can spend them. The bottle neck appears to be the white shards. :/
Might be over 20 refills at this point, I think I'm over 2 million in gold gained.

that's really awfull...if they would lower the cost to 4/5 sands of time it would be much better but 8 sot is horrible with such a droprate.
i agree with the 3* evoshards beeing the bottleneck, since you need them always and you need 9 of them to evolve. that's a huge imbalance in the gameplay. the 3* rainbow shards and the 3* rainbow runes are way to hard to get...

[maxdeviations]

well i played level X 15 times today and got 0 rare souls, 0 3* red shards, and 0 3* rainbow shards. so my table says - 0% drop rate

[aur0ra85]

It's extremely frustrating...
It's a broken drop rate. Same with the rare talisman drop rate, and the Evo tune drop rate. the talisman drop rate is so bad, idk why we even Have the rares in the game. They might as well not exist.
I kinda feel a bit cheated. Progression hit a wall over a month ago.

[aur0ra85]

It's funny, you can tell the drop rate was never intended when the game was originally designed too. Every other mobile game I've played, the gold is always the bottleneck. they'll give you the rare items sparingly enough, that you'll have them, and the only way to Upgrade is to spend real money ->that's the kicker. This game was like that when launched, clearly there was a huge shift in policy for whatever reason on August 9th (or whenever the drop rate was nerfed).
Why did this happen?
It was quite the kick in the pants to the community, and I imagine it's had a huge impact on the bottom line. Clearly, we were lied to about the drop rate improving with the rifts too, if anything, it seems worse.

[JakkuFurosu]

It's funny, you can tell the drop rate was never intended when the game was originally designed too. Every other mobile game I've played, the gold is always the bottleneck. they'll give you the rare items sparingly enough, that you'll have them, and the only way to Upgrade is to spend real money ->that's the kicker. This game was like that when launched, clearly there was a huge shift in policy for whatever reason on August 9th (or whenever the drop rate was nerfed).
Why did this happen?
It was quite the kick in the pants to the community, and I imagine it's had a huge impact on the bottom line. Clearly, we were lied to about the drop rate improving with the rifts too, if anything, it seems worse.

I would think gold/Eddies woulda been the big cash draw, especially with trooper system. borrow rainmaker->wreck face with cool animation-> OMG I NEED THIS->buy souls. and possibly sands, playtime cd usually a biggie in these

[OpticSugar]

I hope the new development team and the powers that be take serious notice of this thread. It is by far the biggest problem with this game and perhaps the easiest to repair. Yes, it should be hard to evolve, and should encourage people to play more and perhaps even spend a little cash to accelerate things, but it should NOT be this hard. Grinding like this isn't fun, nor does it even help their bottom line in any way. This isn't just hard, it's virtually impossible. And there's no way that throwing money at the game could really accelerate this - so selling souls, evolution packs and ironite in the store feels like an empty promise once you've hit the endgame level. Just a cold hard brick wall.

[aur0ra85]

Fantastic thread. Lots of interesting perspectives, opinions, interesting data, end game posters.

[vgta99]

LOTB seems like a claw machine...

[OpticSugar]

LOTB seems like a claw machine...

hahahaha!

1125

[MuadDib-7367]

I don't see any eddies in that claw machine........

[OpticSugar]

I don't see any eddies in that claw machine........
---------
exactly!

[woodol]

I agree with you.
DEV should fix the drop rate. 9 friends of mine stopped playing this game. OK to farm but it's too hard and the drop rate is near 0 %. How can the DEV imagine that all people would spend one month to only get a 3 * evo shard and 3 * rainbow evo rune ?
too bad !

[Coletrain]

In some games the grind can be fun & rewarding, you feel as though you're working towards something. I've done a lot of grinding (multiple refills of SoT per day) continuously since launch and I have to echo the sentiments in this thread. At this point it's grinding for the sake of the grind. I came into the Rifts update (and drop rate nerfs) with a few each of the rare talismans and some of the evolution materials. Rare Talismans are almost completely non-existent now. I've had decent luck getting evolution runes when farming Underworld Madness (Shadows of the Valley, Circle of Fire) but the drop rate for evolution shards...it's a good thing I came in with a base of evolution materials from pre-nerf days, because building them now is a chore.

One observation that I haven't tested: I feel like after I spend a decent amount of time farming the campaign, the first 80 SoT in the Rifts are a bit more productive. I've done that a few times over the past week, and every time I seem to get a few rare souls/3* shards in those first few rift playthroughs. Then the drop rate tanks and i'm left with a pile of 1* shards.

If I didn't have the ability to hit the auto button on 80 SoT 3 times per day, I wouldn't have hardly any evolution materials or talismans to evolve. Something seems wrong if that is the end game for this game. I will farm away if there are more clearly defined rewards, but there has to be that carrot at the end of the stick. At this point all I can do is use my troopers daily and wait for "the coming months" for the game to be updated.

[vgta99]

Ok I'm farm "Shadows in the Valley" in Underworld on Madness. I'm reach now the 100th round and the result is pretty interesting besides Slauki.

1127

You can see that the droprate is very low again for 3* runes in general, but the difference is droprate for the color of runes. This level seems to think that beside the droprate of rainbow runes is good for yellow, red and blue runes but extremly poor of purple ones.
We can consider that the droprate differ on level that you choose. But basically, the droprate of rainbow runes seems to be the same on every underworld stage on madness, around 10%.
About SOT and Ironite, it's that I had think 50% for SOT against 20% of Ironite, logical because you can buy SOT with Ironite and Ironite with real money.
So I will continue for more 100 stages to pretend if my estimations are right.
Grind on! :cool:

[Vaseodin]

I agree drop rates have been a constant problem since launch. The numbers in the original post are a good start, but you need a much larger sample size to have accurate drop rates. The way it is right now (100 runs), the true drop rate could be much lower or much higher. By statistical rules, it is not a large enough sample size to have true numbers.

That said, I believe it to be lower than posted. I have been at endgame for a while (as have many other people), but yet the drop rates still seem abysmal. This means it's not RNG working against you, but drop rates actually being terrible.

I'm glad people are taking the initiative to document results from farming and it is infinitely helpful. I don't have the patience, but definitely benefit from other people running these tests.

I also hope the new players in the development of this game make a turn in the right direction, and we can all benefit from a better game. From the posts in the past few days from some of the new members, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

[slauki]

Ok I'm farm "Shadows in the Valley" in Underworld on Madness. I'm reach now the 100th round and the result is pretty interesting besides Slauki.

1127

You can see that the droprate is very low again for 3* runes in general, but the difference is droprate for the color of runes. This level seems to think that beside the droprate of rainbow runes is good for yellow, red and blue runes but extremly poor of purple ones.
We can consider that the droprate differ on level that you choose. But basically, the droprate of rainbow runes seems to be the same on every underworld stage on madness, around 10%.
About SOT and Ironite, it's that I had think 50% for SOT against 20% of Ironite, logical because you can buy SOT with Ironite and Ironite with real money.
So I will continue for more 100 stages to pretend if my estimations are right.
Grind on! :cool:

nice one, i would like to put this one in my opening post, if thats okay for you. but i can wait till you finish 200 :-) not sure about the different droprates in the different level. might be just variance, but we will solve it, im pretty sure :-)

anyway these stats are really bad. just totally insane persons (like me) would play the whole time to grind for almost no rewards. atm there is zero longterm motivation, but i agree with vaseodin, that there could be a light at the end of the tunnel (let'S pray that this is not the train). but i don't understand why they don't simply rise up the droprates. that should be really easy to do, and it would help us a lot and keep us motivated.

[slauki]

UPDATE 22.09: added battlefield madness and a huge amount of dungeon data (thanks to anonymous).

im pretty confident to say now, that the droprate in the dungeons on level x is approx. 20% for premium. my theory is that all premium loot drops equally but since the droprate is so low, it's not possible to get reliable numbers unless you play 8000-10000 rounds.
well this is pure madness. to upgrade one character you have to play approx. 100 round in the dungeon on level 10. any further questions?

[aur0ra85]

Drop rate of rainbow runes on crucible of pain, madness please and thanks. That's where the good talismans drop. Only 1295 in gold, but if I have to take the pay cut, then that's life.

[slauki]

Drop rate of rainbow runes on crucible of pain, madness please and thanks. That's where the good talismans drop. Only 1295 in gold, but if I have to take the pay cut, then that's life.

sorry don't gonna waste my sand of time at the moment, since it's almost impossible to get any sort of rare talismans. maybe they reduced the dropchances to zero like they did it with the 3* evo shards.
we will have to wait for the "upcoming months" till brave new world opens to get a tiny chance for a good talismans... that part of the game is totally broken atm...

have to play powerslave and game of death next.

[Demoonchild]

I would buy you a beer Don Slauki. Thanks for your effort, and for share it, you are the man!! ;)

[aur0ra85]

sorry don't gonna waste my sand of time at the moment, since it's almost impossible to get any sort of rare talismans. maybe they reduced the dropchances to zero like they did it with the 3* evo shards.
we will have to wait for the "upcoming months" till brave new world opens to get a tiny chance for a good talismans... that part of the game is totally broken atm...

have to play powerslave and game of death next.

I don't want to know about the rare talisman drop rate, I want to know the drop rate of the evo runes lol.
If it's the same as it is in underworld madness, then I might as well farm crucible of pain to at least have a chance at rare talismans too. ;)

[slauki]

I don't want to know about the rare talisman drop rate, I want to know the drop rate of the evo runes lol.
If it's the same as it is in underworld madness, then I might as well farm crucible of pain to at least have a chance at rare talismans too. ;)

i assume that it's equal to powerslave, so this will be an indicator for the droprate in KOTS madness anyway but this will take some days...it's interesting anyway because KOTS costs 20% less sands of time, but last time
i played it i remember that i was very disappointed.... but i didn't count any numbers...

maybe you could assist and play crucial of pain ;-)


@demoonchild would really like to drink a beer with you, i could imagine it to be very funny and interesting :D

[Demoonchild]

@demoonchild would really like to drink a beer with you, i could imagine it to be very funny and interesting :D[/QUOTE]

Jajaja Hahaha, Maybe you're right, my friends compares me with Spongebob Squarepants... :p

[vgta99]

nice one, i would like to put this one in my opening post, if thats okay for you. but i can wait till you finish 200 :-) not sure about the different droprates in the different level. might be just variance, but we will solve it, im pretty sure :-)

Of course you can! ;)
Now I was reaching 200 rounds and not really changing about the first results:

1144

On this stage, the droprate is awful but nearly what you get Slauki.
And that's increase my theory that you have more chance for some colors following stages.


Now, I have a lot of Talismans to drop especially "Health", so I will estimates the droprate for the differents talismans you can get on "Garden of Aset" (Madness). Maybe It can be interresting... :cool:

[Ddrak]

My 2 cents, if I may.

Powerslave madness, 65 attempts
3*rainbow runes= 3
3*red= 1
3*green= 1
3*blue= 1
3*yellow= 3
3* purple= 0
Ironite= 30
Sands of time= 68 (on average around 1 for every attempt)
Gold=2235*65= 145'275
Rare Talismans
Energy= 1
Thief= 1
Assassin= 0
Thorn= 0

Side note it took me around 80 attempts to get 2 "common" boost (Will) talismans i wanted.

[slauki]

My 2 cents, if I may.

Powerslave madness, 65 attempts
3*rainbow runes= 3
3*red= 1
3*green= 1
3*blue= 1
3*yellow= 3
3* purple= 0
Ironite= 30
Sands of time= 68 (on average around 1 for every attempt)
Gold=2235*65= 145'275
Rare Talismans
Energy= 1
Thief= 1
Assassin= 0
Thorn= 0

Side note it took me around 80 attempts to get 2 "common" Rush (Will) talismans i wanted.

thank you ddrak, i will add this to my numbers. i'm sooo jealous, because of the energy talisman, i give up on them, since i tried a few days to get them.
beside this the numbers seems crappy, if you are going for the rainbowrunes...

[Ddrak]

Yeah, droprate is terrible, I was planning to reach 100 attempts but, after gaining my Boost (Will) talismans I quitted.
I hope the statistical base is good enough to make some sense, percentages are very small and I'm afraid luck plays an important role here.

PS and OT to steal power You have an alternative to the Power talismans: a couple of Gunners (Voidling and the Undead Hunters) have "Reave" (Deals magic damage to all enemies + 35% chance to Steal Power from enemy).
These toons are quite weak stawise, but their ability works even when attacks are not perfect.

[BillLion]

Abysmal. Been grinding a couple days just to get enough 3* evo shards to evolve a talisman. Still 3 short!

I know other times they drop like rain...but this is crazy.

[aur0ra85]

I tried making a spreadsheet yesterday on crucible of pain, but I feel asleep and woke kinda groggy and screwed up my data set in the process :(

[OpticSugar]

Abysmal. Been grinding a couple days just to get enough 3* evo shards to evolve a talisman. Still 3 short!

I know other times they drop like rain...but this is crazy.

(I'm pretty sure you meant evo runes)
I've been having great luck with 3* rainbow evo runes on Battlefield "Fighting Spirits" madness... plus it's very auto-attackable for me.

[slauki]

(I'm pretty sure you meant evo runes)
I've been having great luck with 3* rainbow evo runes on Battlefield "Fighting Spirits" madness... plus it's very auto-attackable for me.

yeah sometimes you get 3 in 10 attemps and you start to think, yeah i found a level where they finally drop. but after starting many more attemps you begin to realize, that the droprate is equally skrewed as in any other level of the stage...
how can the devs leave us alone with this? it's a shame...

[aur0ra85]

Im wondering if they've dropped the game. Maybe it's not worth the hassle? It's too bad they left it in its current condition tho if they did drop it. I'm thinking weeks before another update.

[JakkuFurosu]

Im thinking they gnna drop 1 huge update, just going to take a bit.
hoping at least....

[slauki]

updated powerslave madness and dungeon level 8

[Demoonchild]

Thanks for keeping up this thread DonSlauki... great job! ;)

[aur0ra85]

ive got 6 level 50 energy talismans now :P
Three more haven't been upgraded yet (dunno if I will, how many do I need? lol).
Haven't found any more thief talismans. I farmed 5 assassin talismans too, all the shield type. Haven't seen a barrier drop since early August. Been one hell of a grind.

[slauki]

ive got 6 level 50 energy talismans now :P
Three more haven't been upgraded yet (dunno if I will, how many do I need? lol).
Haven't found any more thief talismans. I farmed 5 assassin talismans too, all the shield type. Haven't seen a barrier drop since early August. Been one hell of a grind.

how many rounds hid you approximatly play? in crucible of pain? from farming 150 rounds powerslave madness i got 1 energy talisman and i was very surprised as it dropped :-)

@ demon your're very welcome :-) i just try to keep things interesting while waiting for the next updates...

[aur0ra85]

how many rounds hid you approximatly play? in crucible of pain? from farming 150 rounds powerslave madness i got 1 energy talisman and i was very surprised as it dropped :-)

@ demon your're very welcome :-) i just try to keep things interesting while waiting for the next updates...

Probably at least two sands of time refills ;)

[slauki]

added game of death madness (seems to be a good level to farm 3* runes)
added approx. more rounds of level 10 dungeon

[Frost]

Sorry, but in a nutshell, best place to farm for 3* red runes? I have a ton of talies @ 4* 40 :(

[slauki]

Sorry, but in a nutshell, best place to farm for 3* red runes? I have a ton of talies @ 4* 40 :(

wow tough one...i would take the level with the highest 3* dropchance..this would be game of death madness, but beware, due to the numbers the dropchance is as miserable as 3,5%... the smartest option would be to wait for the update in the next week, they stated that the want to simplyfy the grinding drasticly...

Edit: powerslave madness has got 5,2% and only costs 4 sands of time i would take this one for reds...
the prisoner madness has also about 5% there you can also find some morerainbows, maybe thats also an option

[vgta99]

Hi guys this is now the result of the Talismans droperate in Garden of Aset (Madness):

1316

As you can see is not really good, and I doesn't make a difference about the classes (Ward, Fierce...), but in 200 rounds Assassin Talisman is non-existent and I had only one time The Thief Taliman. But I can confirm that you can drop 3* evo runes rainbow and others colors...

By the way I noticed that you have sometimes lucky rewards like that:

1314

[slauki]

Hi guys this is now the result of the Talismans droperate in Garden of Aset (Madness):

As you can see is not really good, and I doesn't make a difference about the classes (Ward, Fierce...), but in 200 rounds Assassin Talisman is non-existent and I had only one time The Thief Taliman. But I can confirm that you can drop 3* evo runes rainbow and others colors...

By the way I noticed that you have sometimes lucky rewards like that:



thanks for the effort and the share, i will put it in the first comment tomorrow...let's hope the update will fix such ridiculous results...

[Journeyman]

awesome post, and I will glad to help. I will take a stage at battlefield, which is where i currently farm.
Do we try to estimate to drop rates only for 3* runes? for mid-level players like me (still playing underworld normal) there are some other needs, like the 1* and 2* runes (especially the red ones)

[osiris0000]

awesome post, and I will glad to help. I will take a stage at battlefield, which is where i currently farm.
Do we try to estimate to drop rates only for 3* runes? for mid-level players like me (still playing underworld normal) there are some other needs, like the 1* and 2* runes (especially the red ones)

Exactly. Actually, 2* Red evo runes are the most hard to get. I got much more 3* Red evo runes than 2* Red evo runes when i farm.

[slauki]

awesome post, and I will glad to help. I will take a stage at battlefield, which is where i currently farm.
Do we try to estimate to drop rates only for 3* runes? for mid-level players like me (still playing underworld normal) there are some other needs, like the 1* and 2* runes (especially the red ones)

feel free to estimate what ever you like, every help is appreciated.:-) i think for the most player the 3* rainbow runes are the real bottleneck.when you farm them you will get any other runes "by accident". sure the midgame and early game players has got other needs as well, but it would be to annoying to estimate everything, that's why i try to focus on the things i feel are the most important.

[aur0ra85]

I'll jump in here after the post about talismans. I farmed KoS for a good couple weeks non stop it seemed. I got 6 energy talismans, 6 assassin talismans, 0 thorn, and 0 thief. That should put things in perspective with regards to drop rate, RNG, and any dreams of an algorithm. I wonder how many rounds I played? Lol.

[osiris0000]

Hey guys,
When you farm and put the droprates on a list, can you also put the drop numbers of 2* coloured & rainbow evo runes? Because especially Red 2* evo runes are much rare than Red 3* evo runes for example, at least in my experience. I especially farm for 2* Red evo runes, and the result i got is many 3* red evo runes laying down and waiting for that 2* Red evo runes.. It took me 1 month to collect enough 2* red evo runes for 5* 6 Strength Fierce Talisman set. Which is weird..

And since we need 9 pieces of particular 2* evo color rune in order to evolve talismans to 5* same as 3* evo runes, 2* evo runes are also important as 3* ones. I am really sure about many people also looking for this 2* evo rune drop rates as i do. Any help will be appreciated!

[slauki]

Hey guys,
When you farm and put the droprates on a list, can you also put the drop numbers of 2* coloured & rainbow evo runes? Because especially Red 2* evo runes are much rare than Red 3* evo runes for example, at least in my experience. I especially farm for 2* Red evo runes, and the result i got is many 3* red evo runes laying down and waiting for that 2* Red evo runes.. It took me 1 month to collect enough 2* red evo runes for 5* 6 Strength Fierce Talisman set. Which is weird..

And since we need 9 pieces of particular 2* evo color rune in order to evolve talismans to 5* same as 3* evo runes, 2* evo runes are also important as 3* ones. I am really sure about many people also looking for this 2* evo rune drop rates as i do. Any help will be appreciated!

hi osiris, i won't continue to count the drops untill the update comes out. the numers we got are some kind of significant enough. but i can add the 2* runes
after the update, but i guess the problems should be solved next week anyway...
#letsprayforit

[slauki]

UPDATE: added the first 100 rounds of game of death (madness) after the update, the droprates seem to be awesome now, check it out:

1519

But beware, the number of rounds where nothing good drops is much higher. i subtracted the rounds when more than one 3* runes dropped. statisticly this is okay, but you have to know it.

[Aristo4]

Awesome....

[vgta99]

After the update,

1529

Yeah! It could happen... :rolleyes:

1530

Yeah, yeah it's true!!!

[Esquatcho]

Whoa, what level!? Underworld Madness somewhere I assume?

[vgta99]

Whoa, what level!? Underworld Madness somewhere I assume?

Circle of Fire on Madness :cool:

[Esquatcho]

Nice, still not unlocked for my team, but getting close now!

The biggest problem with all these evos now is getting enough gold!!! Neeeeeeeeeeddddddddd mmmmmmmoooooooaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr gggggggggooooooollllllldddddddddd!!!!!

[blade685]

i m stuck in underworld grr madness impossible for my shit 4* team...

[slauki]

Nice, still not unlocked for my team, but getting close now!

The biggest problem with all these evos now is getting enough gold!!! Neeeeeeeeeeddddddddd mmmmmmmoooooooaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr gggggggggooooooollllllldddddddddd!!!!!

here, take some from me:

1531

[Demoonchild]

Thanks for share your testings and results Mr. Slauki!!
And for your gold showing off.....

[blade685]

another place easiest than madness underworld? :(

[Kaijester]

Received only 1 3stars evolution rune from madness Battlefield, a matter of life and death. Seems more worth it to farm in Underworld.

[slauki]

UPDATE: added another 100 rounds of game of death and structurated the thread better. the drops seem to be even better than i thought!

[Esquatcho]

Yes please slauki!!!!!!!!

[Reeb99]

I've evolved 4-5 talismans to 5* since the update, mostly farming various battlefield madness missions. So the rainbow evo runes are definitely dropping there, but maybe not as often as underworld madness. Battlefield madness seems better than underworld hard though. Also I'm getting all colors of regular runes from everywhere post patch. Evo runes and evo shards seem to be the only ones limited by world.

[stastny]

Thank you so much for this data, it essentially means I won't be playing this game too much untill next update. I love how they changed drops for campaign, but the changes to 3 star coloured shards drops are nuts. I can't beat LoL on level X, because my team is too weak, even with troopers' help. To beat this level, I need to evolve my 4* character, but I won't be able to, cause I'll never get evo shards to do it.

150 battles on level 8 and not a single coloured 3* evo shard is just madness.

[Esquatcho]

Just as somewhere to put my notes from just then, I've done 7 rounds of the blue LoL X dungeon writing down loot for the first time. What springs to mind is that the number of 3* blue shards is excessively high!

Similarly for regular souls. Since the update I feel like I am now swimming in them! Anyway, got my daily 3* coloured evo shard from the dungeon on the 3rd run fwiw. So totals:

7 turns Blue LoL X
3* blue - 43
4* blue - 8
1* evo blue - 1 (wtf!)
2* evo blue - 1
3* evo blue - 1
1* evo rainbow - 1 (wtf!)
3* evo rainbow - 1
2k gold - 1
reg souls - 18

[slauki]

added 103 rounds of helloween special level

1720

[Esquatcho]

added 103 rounds of helloween special level


Very interesting!

The problem imo is that while the soul drop rate is higher, you've got to spend double the SoT on them. So it would seem definitely better in terms of rare souls, but probably not THAT much better to be worth missing out on all the other loot from the cosmos (and not to mention trooper points).

Also, not sure if anyone else experienced it, but I got all the stated drops on first runs through (achieving all quests). So I got a shard on first run through madness...

[slauki]

Very interesting!

The problem imo is that while the soul drop rate is higher, you've got to spend double the SoT on them. So it would seem definitely better in terms of rare souls, but probably not THAT much better to be worth missing out on all the other loot from the cosmos (and not to mention trooper points).

Also, not sure if anyone else experienced it, but I got all the stated drops on first runs through (achieving all quests). So I got a shard on first run through madness...

oh i forgot to mention, that i didn't count the first round, because the gunner soul was supposed to drop, so no rng there.

you are right in some way. but you have to compare it with the dungeon, because this is the location where rare souls drop sometimes. so it's 8 sot vs 10 sot imo.
i use all my troopers first in KOTS powerslave and then i farm the helloween special, because rare souls/skillshards are everything that i care about and i want to use the possibility.
i also refilled a couple of time to get these results and take fully advance of the offer, but the last 30 rounds i got absolutly nothing :-(
so maybe i got a good run at the beginning or a bad run at the end, but we will draw a conclusion at the end of the event...

[Kaijester]

Hmmmm I didn't get a gunner soul for first round. :-(

[Esquatcho]

Good point on comparing to the dungeon... In which case, it isnt so bad. If you want souls/shards, then go hard on halloween for sure. I guess I should probably be making the most of it while its available right?

I tried a full round of SoT though and while I did get a shard, everything else was pure junk (after the first run through). Whereas at least in the dungeons you get slightly better junk. Or maybe its better phrased that there is less risk of absolute junk when doing LoLX :)

As for the drop estimates, I'd be really interested to see the stats on secret levels. Got this one the other day! Has got to be amongst the biggest 3* rainbow evo rune hauls possible right (6x)?
1722

[aur0ra85]

My problem is I have 335 3* purple evo runes. I'd love to farm underworld for more rainbow evo runes, but it's not gaining me any red, green, or blue evo runes while I'm there. Not that I'm in a panic for any coloured runes, but I'm double digits in red and green (I have ALOT of green and red talismans maxed already, but could always use more as almost every character takes green, and more often than not red).

[slauki]

added another 125 level of helloween special

1754

[Esquatcho]

added another 125 level of helloween special

Well clearly the skillshards & assassin/gunner souls are not actually working. But what do you think about the rare soul drop rate? 8% seems reasonable to me?

Just a shame the others arent working and all other rewards are crapola.

Also, is it just me or is the additional sands of time drop amount quite high?

Edit: Actually no, seems its about the same as all of madness after checking the start of this thread.... Plus the level costs a heap more sand than in the cosmos!

[slauki]

Well clearly the skillshards & assassin/gunner souls are not actually working. But what do you think about the rare soul drop rate? 8% seems reasonable to me?

Just a shame the others arent working and all other rewards are crapola.

Also, is it just me or is the additional sands of time drop amount quite high?

Edit: Actually no, seems its about the same as all of madness after checking the start of this thread.... Plus the level costs a heap more sand than in the cosmos!

Hey Esquatcho, 8% sounds also very reasonable to me, but not getting one single skillshard or one rare gunner soul after more than 250 tries is really awkward, if they are supposed to drop.
this is ridiculous, but maybe thy should only drop the first time...not sure about this.

beside this SOT doesn't seems that great to me, because one level costs 10sot, so more would be really appreciated...
the ironit is in a pretty normal range.

so i will farm the level as hard as i can, to earn some more rare souls today.

[Kaijester]

Actually I can't wait for the event to quickly end, so that I can stop wasting my ironites on SoT refills to get an illusional skill shard, and get back to rune farming.

[scott-5496]

feel free to estimate what ever you like, every help is appreciated.:-) i think for the most player the 3* rainbow runes are the real bottleneck.when you farm them you will get any other runes "by accident". sure the midgame and early game players has got other needs as well, but it would be to annoying to estimate everything, that's why i try to focus on the things i feel are the most important.

I am getting a lot of the 3* rainbow runes in Dogs of War Madness - not sure on drop rate but in a fresh 80 sands of time I did get 5. I am struggling to get blue 3 star shards and oddly 1 star red evos.

[Esquatcho]

I am getting a lot of the 3* rainbow runes in Dogs of War Madness - not sure on drop rate but in a fresh 80 sands of time I did get 5. I am struggling to get blue 3 star shards and oddly 1 star red evos.

Blue 3* evo shards? Those are only in Magus LoL....

As for 1* evo runes, red & green are my bane. I've been farming dogs of war & rapid fire & have been getting enough few 3* rainbow evo shards & runes. But it would be nice just to get the odd 10x 1*, or 5x 2* coloured evo run drop! They know theres an issue though & will work on that in time :)

[osiris0000]

Does anyone know where to farm to get 4* blue runes consistently? I am farming only Game of Death madness as almost every late-game player, runes i got mostly yellow and purple ones which is normal. And sometimes i got 5 x 3* blue rune drops also, but thats not enough. I got quite good loot there no complain. But i have a lot of blue talismans to level up to 5. It's quite hard to level blue talismans to 5* with 3* blue runes, and i don't want to spend other color runes for less level up and future upgrades. Any recent experience?

[slauki]

Does anyone know where to farm to get 4* blue runes consistently? I am farming only Game of Death madness as almost every late-game player, runes i got mostly yellow and purple ones which is normal. And sometimes i got 5 x 3* blue rune drops also, but thats not enough. I got quite good loot there no complain. But i have a lot of blue talismans to level up to 5. It's quite hard to level blue talismans to 5* with 3* blue runes, and i don't want to spend other color runes for less level up and future upgrades. Any recent experience?

sorry no idea, since i didn't count them. i would imagibe bettlefield madness would be the place to farm them since blue runes drop there. but that's onla a guess.

[Ubajoa]

Does anyone got a single skill shard in the halloween event? and I mean by farming not the first time.

[Hypnos]

Does anyone got a single skill shard in the halloween event? and I mean by farming not the first time.

None here.

[Roquetas-5312]

I serious doubt it
Not even seen a assassin/gunner soul
Used over 6k sands played for over 60 hours

Personally think this event was a massive con

[aur0ra85]

As posted in another thread, I feel we are looking at the wrong issue. The real premium loot appears to be the regular runes. I ran out last eve finally after 20 some odd talismans taken to level 50. Upgraded 3 talismans since to 5*, and don't have enough runes to get one to level 50. I don't know what else to say. I'm about done playing.

[GreyMouser]

Bingo. ^^^^^. No power up runes is the hardest part of the game. I can get talisman to 50 and players to 100 now, but I'll be damed if it doesn't take over a week to power up a single talisman.

[slauki]

As posted in another thread, I feel we are looking at the wrong issue. The real premium loot appears to be the regular runes. I ran out last eve finally after 20 some odd talismans taken to level 50. Upgraded 3 talismans since to 5*, and don't have enough runes to get one to level 50. I don't know what else to say. I'm about done playing.

i think this is a temporary issue. at the time the thread was created, the3* runes were the main bottleneck. at this time the 2* runes and the normal runes are the problem. but i bet after the next tuning update, the 3* runes will be the rarest again.

[hold]

i think this is a temporary issue. at the time the thread was created, the3* runes were the main bottleneck. at this time the 2* runes and the normal runes are the problem. but i bet after the next tuning update, the 3* runes will be the rarest again.

It's not as there are too many items. There will always be a bottleneck. As I said in another thread some sort of "Alchemist" where you can swap for gold or 3:1 to a different color would be a solution. Even if you always get the wrong color farming you still can evolve through exchanging stuff.

[aur0ra85]

It's crap is what it is. They promised this was fixed, they told us gold would be the bottle neck. I'm not buying it this time. They're trying to please the masses by moving the bottle neck. It looks as though they are trying to prevent us from advancing. The drop rate increase of the 3* evo runes was a whitewash. You can't tell me this is a difficult thing to code, I've coded some basic stuff before. They've had 2 or 3 small updates since. This is simply a waste of time.

[Nicko]

As posted in another thread, I feel we are looking at the wrong issue. The real premium loot appears to be the regular runes. I ran out last eve finally after 20 some odd talismans taken to level 50. Upgraded 3 talismans since to 5*, and don't have enough runes to get one to level 50. I don't know what else to say. I'm about done playing.

Without a doubt.

Interestingly, I have a decent amount of red power up runes saved from lack of use

Cause red 2* evo runes are so rare I can't even evolve 3* red talismans to 4*, let alone 4* to 5*

That's pathetic!

[blade685]

Without a doubt.

Interestingly, I have a decent amount of red power up runes saved from lack of use

Cause red 2* evo runes are so rare I can't even evolve 3* red talismans to 4*, let alone 4* to 5*

That's pathetic!that's shit patch and strategy=losing players soon

[slauki]

yeah it was really stupid just to look at the 3* runes without seeing the relationship between the different types of runes.
they talk a lot about balance, but it seems to me, that balancing isn't that easy for them. i have very low motivation on counting the
drops anymore, since they really fix it.

i would have to start a 3rd count "after the 2nd tuning patch"...this is ridiculous.

so i'm not sure about the future of this thread and the game anymore. maybe they will loose too many players, that won't come back...

[Esquatcho]

yeah it was really stupid just to look at the 3* runes without seeing the relationship between the different types of runes.
they talk a lot about balance, but it seems to me, that balancing isn't that easy for them. i have very low motivation on counting the
drops anymore, since they really fix it.

i would have to start a 3rd count "after the 2nd tuning patch"...this is ridiculous.

so i'm not sure about the future of this thread and the game anymore. maybe they will loose too many players, that won't come back...

Noooo! This thread is hugely important to the community!

[Londo-7244]

yeah it was really stupid just to look at the 3* runes without seeing the relationship between the different types of runes.
they talk a lot about balance, but it seems to me, that balancing isn't that easy for them. i have very low motivation on counting the
drops anymore, since they really fix it.

i would have to start a 3rd count "after the 2nd tuning patch"...this is ridiculous.

so i'm not sure about the future of this thread and the game anymore. maybe they will loose too many players, that won't come back...

Wow. If you've lost hope Slauki......... The end is truly near