Is the red troll too overpowered for PvP?

[Reeb99]

Instead of derailing another thread, let's have this discussion here. I'm really worried that the red troll is going to cause serious problems with pvp. I know it can be countered with the prisoner or blue bat / death dog, but that's three seriously rare characters.

Passive shield, + high true damage basic attack is just too much in my opinion. Maybe if the true damage attack was a power move, it wouldn't be so bad. I guess the only common counter is to bring a group shield of your own, like the blue allied soldier?

Thoughts?

[mikmar]

Why worry about a good character ??
No, let's think about thed things that we don't like, buying souls with ironite for example.
I don't do that anymore because we have no chance to get a single rare soul we don't have already.

[hold]

Blue Bat, Prisoner, Death Dog... That's how you counter him.

But he is very very good and I am happy to have him as number 1 farm toon with full maxed skill shards

[Reeb99]

So there's two smart alec answers from two people, one of which admitted to having the troll. Lets compare the troll to the Alliance General, who recently got the nerf bat. Both have a usefull passive, both have ok buff power moves. Yet the troll has a good damage area attack, while the green general has a single target attack. The writing is on the wall, folks.

[Esquatcho]

I think the key is that he at least can be countered. Plus he's a rare character (arguably more rare than the blue bat etc).

In the end there are many really great chars and warrior troll is right up amongst the best for sure. But rarity and the fact there is a counter will hopefully be enough. In the end, it will probably depend on how PvP is setup (eg one char turn each, or one team) whether this troll is overpowered.

[FlyingV]

Why worry about a good character ??
No, let's think about thed things that we don't like, buying souls with ironite for example.
I don't do that anymore because we have no chance to get a single rare soul we don't have already.

Precisely.

this is an obnoxious thread. It is very old playing into the hands of the nerf bat woes. Worry about how to defeat the characters not spotlight ones to introduce for neutering. And how would we even know regarding such when we have no clue how the mechanics of PVP even works,?

[MrFreeze]

I'm more worried about the game even making it to pvp. And if it does, what new bugs are going to pop up with it.

[Nicko]

I'm more worried about all the worrying

[Sparton_LOTB]

Our internal playtesting has shown that he's solid, and definitely an asset to have on a defending team, but definitely not overpowered. If anything, Warrior Troll is great at ensuring the opposing team doesn't try to burst your team down right away, which can be helpful to ensure other teammates can do something meaningful to give you momentum. There's also the option to use characters that can remove beneficial effects... even if that means you're only removing one shield from so you can focus a character down on that critical first turn.

You'll be able to find out for yourselves soon guys, don't you worry!

[Vertax616]

You'll be able to find out for yourselves soon guys, don't you worry!

This is very good to hear! 😁

[Esquatcho]

I'm more worried about all the worrying

OMG, This! It worries me....

[Reeb99]

Our internal playtesting has shown that he's solid, and definitely an asset to have on a defending team, but definitely not overpowered. If anything, Warrior Troll is great at ensuring the opposing team doesn't try to burst your team down right away, which can be helpful to ensure other teammates can do something meaningful to give you momentum. There's also the option to use characters that can remove beneficial effects... even if that means you're only removing one shield from so you can focus a character down on that critical first turn.

You'll be able to find out for yourselves soon guys, don't you worry!

So your internal testing showed that the Alliance General, who is a rare native 5* with a single target attack, was more overpowered than the troll? Come on now. The only thing overpowered was the fact that the buff was bugged and was giving a 100 percent chance at crits. The original percentage was fine.

And by the way, energy still isn't getting removed from the enemy team on any of these energy stealing skills or the talisman set.

[Sparton_LOTB]

So your internal testing showed that the Alliance General, who is a rare native 5* with a single target attack, was more overpowered than the troll? Come on now. The only thing overpowered was the fact that the buff was bugged and was giving a 100 percent chance at crits. The original percentage was fine.

Alliance General doesn't fit the same niche as the troll, but he's still arguably much stronger, yes.


His energy-stealing basic is insane, especially if you pop more energy talismans on him (and why not?)
His power ability's Critical Strike is valuable for attackers of all damage types, which is more flexible than just Attack Up or Magic Up, and also stacks with Attack Up and Magic Up
Perfect Hit is incredibly valuable to effectively increase odds of talisman augment procs, especially when taunted (suddenly, taunting a Carriage Rider Eddie with freeze talismans is a liability)
Lifesteal is beastly on a physical-focused team, especially when he's increasing the average damage of his team with Critical Strike and Perfect Hit (not to mention the first turn Attack Up he's providing)


He doesn't guarantee 200% damage any more, but he's still a crazy enabler.


And by the way, energy still isn't getting removed from the enemy team on any of these energy stealing skills or the talisman set.

It's still in our system as a bug to fix, we just have been focusing more on general PVP stability and functionality and higher profile combat bugs first. Unless something massive comes up with the next update we release, it's among the list of bugs we want to fix next.

[Aristo4]

/end thread. ;)

[Baba-8301]

I reckon PVP is going to be a complete change of philosophy. In the current PVE game the emphasis is on bursting down waves in one turn, or two if you are unlucky with the crits. I want to see defences become more relevant in PVP (else it will just be about how much health can you stack) and I think the challenge for Nodding Frog will be figuring out how to stop a first round alpha strike from being decisive. If our friendly neighbourhood troll can help mitigate that then great. There are other active options -void talismans with an accuracy boost, reflect shield for example- but the passive shields from the troll got me a long way through the campaign back when he was single target damage and reflect bugs were a big thing.

[konstifik]

I have two Angel of Pains and only one Warrior Troll, so from my point of view the Troll is harder to get ;) Taking affinity into account as well, the Angel of Pain is the perfect counter to the troll.

Honestly, this doesn't feel like something to worry too much about...

[MuadDib-7367]

Will be interesting to see if we can run teams with multiples of the same character.

[aur0ra85]

Will be interesting to see if we can run teams with multiples of the same character.

You can, lots of guys running pairs of blue allied soldier with Grim reaper. I was sad about the general nerd for sure as he's Max with Max talismans and skills and goes great with my red team, but I'll live (he was completely overbearing and dominating before).
Most people have a troll for defence and he's not terrible to deal with even without removing beneficial effects. He hits hard, but that's what stun is for ;)
Character balancing seems decent in PvP thus far, but there are way too many character bugs and talismans bugs to list that have carried over from the main game and plenty of characters that need skill reworks like samurai and tail gunner before this should be released (or there will be lots of bonus whining to go with the standard whining, and rightfully so). Haven't seen a completely overpowered brick wall of defence yet, but I'm sure we will soon enough.
Quite a few low level players have knocked down my grim reaper, troll, allied soldier, and purple golden son defence team so far. I feel like it's going to come down to average defence wins and if you can maintain any number better than 50%, you're gold.

[Nicko]

Most people have a troll for defence

Except those of us who get endless FOTD Eddies but no Troll

This guy is more elusive than the Yeti...

[aur0ra85]

Except those of us who get endless FOTD Eddies but no Troll

This guy is more elusive than the Yeti...

Pro tip: the best defensive team I faced had a couple of bomber boys, axis commander, and mummy Eddie.... ;)
Try and guess the talisman loadout.

[Reeb99]

Pro tip: the best defensive team I faced had a couple of bomber boys, axis commander, and mummy Eddie.... ;)
Try and guess the talisman loadout.

Paralysis and freeze talismans? I'm thinking about doing something similar with the green pyro for my magic team.

[Nicko]

Pro tip: the best defensive team I faced had a couple of bomber boys, axis commander, and mummy Eddie.... ;)
Try and guess the talisman loadout.

Just thinking about it makes me shiver ;)

[Nicko]

Pro tip: the best defensive team I faced had a couple of bomber boys, axis commander, and mummy Eddie.... ;)
Try and guess the talisman loadout.

Faced them tonight - Gav I think? - really great team. I went down on offense twice tonight - and one of those times was to this team.

[Olevipoeg]

I have two Angel of Pains and only one Warrior Troll, so from my point of view the Troll is harder to get ;) Taking affinity into account as well, the Angel of Pain is the perfect counter to the troll.

Honestly, this doesn't feel like something to worry too much about...
I have 3 Warrior Trolls and not at single Angel of Pain :)