February 14th 2017 PVP Arena Update Discussion

[Nicko]

Hey Nicko, would you happen to know where Killhouse's write up is? I would love to read that.

And still waiting on that small (ok, BIG) favor which I requested of you via PM. ;)

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4537-Beta-PVP-Arena!-Let-s-feedback-here-*&p=27532#post27532

And I will definitely get back to you on your request;)

[IceManFerrar]

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4537-Beta-PVP-Arena!-Let-s-feedback-here-*&p=27532#post27532

And I will definitely get back to you on your request;)

Thank you so much, Nicko, you are DA best!:cool:

[IceManFerrar]

Pffff - GO gmac!

You are number 1 and not number 6! You don't have a prisoner - you play with FREE MEN!

Go GMAC! He is one of my troopers, so definitely gets my support and cheering on! Lol! :)

[BonFire]

Hm, that was a good read. I had a Sentinel Rescuer at one point, but I didn't have the skill shards on him.

Oh, Nicko, just wanna say your run during the beta of being number 1 was legendary to me.

[Caretaker]

Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)
Here you go! One you've won by the hair
2484

[Aristo4]

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4537-Beta-PVP-Arena!-Let-s-feedback-here-*&p=27532#post27532

So, a former No1 told us that he did it spending hundreds of ironites, time, and also avoided prisoners.

What else should I keep from this post?

[Nicko]

So, a former No1 told us that he did it spending hundreds of ironites, time, and also avoided prisoners.

What else should I keep from this post?

It's not for you - you're a professional ;)

It was also written after the first week of PvP. Anyone from beta knows most of this.

People requested it after I referenced it. And I referenced it when people said you need a Prisoner to be at the top - but GMAC is at the top - so it would be cool if he made some comments about his run

[Nicko]

Hm, that was a good read. I had a Sentinel Rescuer at one point, but I didn't have the skill shards on him.

Oh, Nicko, just wanna say your run during the beta of being number 1 was legendary to me.

Thanks! But Pizza Friday was the king of beta. I think any infamy I had was more from that Desert Maurader - Gunner Golden Son - Tailgunner combo. The Thief and Freeze Talismans would trigger with each hit of the golden son, so basically the entire opposing team would get frozen and Tailgunners Fury would get filled with one perfect hit - which the Desert Maurader provided. Tailgunner s fury is brutal.

They of course fixed the Talismans, but I remember testing that defense when I put it together and said "Holy $hi+" :D

[Nicko]

Here you go! One you've won by the hair
2484

Those are the most fun battles!

[Tritium]

Is it possible for your defense team to go first when testing it? Every time I've tested mine, I end up going first and therefore don't truly get to test the potential of my defense team.

[Aristo4]

I referenced it when people said you need a Prisoner to be at the top - but GMAC is at the top - so it would be cool if he made some comments about his run

If someone needs to attack 785 times a week, spend 3000 ironite and spend 80 hours a week (semi random numbers) to get on top without a prisoner then all these are further arguments why the FN Gimp should be shot dead, not the opposite.

2485

[Nicko]

Is it possible for your defense team to go first when testing it? Every time I've tested mine, I end up going first and therefore don't truly get to test the potential of my defense team.

Luck of the draw. They do go first theoretically half the time

[gmac]

Hi Guys,

Jofer is just too fast, can´t catch him. He scores points at will. I´m fast but he´s real freak!

I wish I could have gone one better without The Prisoner.

Gonna read the posts now.

Jofer, if you read this, I can´t believe you made it this far first week on the Arena. We need more players like you. Congratulations!!! This was fun!

And Saturdays are the future for the Arena.

Be right back.

[Nicko]

Hi Guys,

Jofer is just too fast, can´t catch him. He scores points at will. I´m fast but he´s real freak!

I wish I could have gone one better without The Prisoner.

Gonna read the posts now.

Jofer, if you read this, I can´t believe you made it this far first week on the Arena. We need more players like you. Congratulations!!! This was fun!

And Saturdays are the future for the Arena.

Be right back.

Hey man - great run! Congrats to both you guys!

[Caretaker]

Not the luck on first turn, but Spar's trickeries. First turn is method of those attack/heal/buff categories. That's why you fell some teams allways go first on you. I'm not wicked enough to count, but if there is an enthusiast, we can crack it. Sparton can call me silly wright now.

Great run guys! Loved it.

[Caretaker]

Oh, and people! How do you like the refreshed list? Good luck coming up ;)

[CanyptianFit]

What a read on a Saturday. First full PVP week. When I joined PVP beta late, I was lucky to have a 10% defense rate, first week here it's 30%.

So I don't have a prisoner, and finished eighth once in beta and 14th this week without spending a ton of ironite.

It's all strategy. There are times I have 2 characters left against 4 and pull it off (prisoner/blue Bat included).

I always go against prisoners. Without fear. I have a team ready for them. I always clear out my entire attack list, to get the 2 free SOW. I attack all the top players and usually win. Ask them.

I've been playing this game since July and understand the characters and the AI. PvP isn't for the faint of heart. I take calculated risks and often times it pays.

You asked for win rates for someone without a prisoner? 94%. (245/260).

I have 2 sets of teams. One for people with Prisoner/Blue Bat, and one for people that that allow me to have passives [that team is largely colored red :) ]. I do tweak them slightly depending upon opponents.

This game is totally strategy. You need a ton of equipped toons, while I hate the RNG I've been lucky to get the red troll, hellhound, blue Bat, corr gen, and a few others. I have 35 5* toons.

There is a learning curve, but study the AI, make sure you balance out the talismans. I've largely invested my resources in skill shards, over 100 of em, versus going for souls.

PvP is totally different from PvE. My beloved characters in PvE, some of them, don't even come into play in PvP. I never bring them in as their skills don't fit.

Don't give up, but don't force your favorites thinking they will win. You will need to try different characters with different talisman builds to get a groove going.

I finished 14th and spent a little bit of ironite (maybe one refill of SoW each day) but only essentially what you get each day. I generally net more ironite each day than I use. For full disclosure Saturday sometimes gets multiple refills. 😝

Feel free to check out my team and builds. We all have different styles, so what works for me may not for others but this game is darn fun.

BTW, Nicko, you changed to a SSD because his taunt rate is broken. Everyone gradually shifted to him over time, I commented about that on another thread.

Here's to another fun week ahead! Cheers all!

[Caretaker]

Here is what it took for top 25. Don't mind the fun I had testing Nicko's like defences. 10:3 for Nicko!

2486

[CanyptianFit]

Caretaker, our stats are VERY close. You can guess that from our win rates and our ranking.

Cheers!

[Nicko]

Here is what it took for top 25. Don't mind the fun I had testing Nicko's like defences. 10:3 for Nicko!

2486

I held you 10 times? Didn't seem like that!

And Canyptian - great write up!

[Browno]

My results after first week of pvp.
I think i start to get the hang of how to counterplay teams with prisoner and troll now :)
I have neither of those chars.
2487

[Patrice-1201]

What annoys me the most is the way the AI works in PVP, for instance last night I have a 21 Wins streak before going to bed and as I woke up I had 17 losses on Revenge... basically it is an AI issue because I get my wins even if I start second with a Prisoner against me but as soon as the game plays for me, I loose and loose about 1000 points.

Well to prove my point, I have been away for a few hours and lost 500 points!!!! To me this is worse than the prisoner discussion... of course I use the same team for my defense as for my attack so why I are we mostly winning on offense and loosing on defense this is not right

[CanyptianFit]

Patrice, my defense is TOTALLY different from my offense, ah, hypothetically. 😝, not to give away any strategy or anything.

[Browno]

I think everyone lost 500 points during reset.
Also you make the choices in offensive team and ai do them for defense. Choose chars based on that and have aome synergy.

[Patrice-1201]

I think everyone lost 500 points during reset.
Also you make the choices in offensive team and ai do them for defense. Choose chars based on that and have aome synergy.

The loss was before the reset...

[ToTameAGame]

My results after first week of pvp.
I think i start to get the hang of how to counterplay teams with prisoner and troll now :)
I have neither of those chars.
2487

These are nice statistics but they are a bit pointless if we cannot compare them to the defense stats of the top Prisoner teams. These stats would be very interesting:

- Do they get attacked that often as well?
- Is the percentage of their defense higher?

[Ubajoa]

Well, my statistics:

I have finished 15th, I have no troll (red nor purple), I have no Prisoner, I have no Corrupt general. I wish I had them.
2488

[satani]

...

PvP = Prisoner vs Peasants
...


well, on one of my accounts, i have a prisoner and easily reached top 100.

my other account i don't have him and even without prisoner and made good.
Most of my fights i did not win due to my prisoner, but because of the fact, that 3 out of 4 members of my team have invisibility talismans. (a good talisman combo and a good eddie - i play viking there - and you're good.

in point of defense, there are much harder combos to beat: (as prisoner is single target and if fought precisely, he's dead in no time)
troll ? Yes, he's heavy to beat.
Corrupt general? not really that hard to beat.
Red angel? if ai times him right, he's deadly!
Blue allied soldier? Even he is a heavy enemy.
Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.
Grim Reaper? Yes, he can provide very long fights, you sometimes have to get a draw instead of a loss.
Mummy? One of the hardest eddies i've encounterd so far.

[ToTameAGame]

well, on one of my accounts, i have a prisoner and easily reached top 100.

my other account i don't have him and even without prisoner and made good.
Most of my fights i did not win due to my prisoner, but because of the fact, that 3 out of 4 members of my team have invisibility talismans. (a good talisman combo and a good eddie - i play viking there - and you're good.

in point of defense, there are much harder combos to beat: (as prisoner is single target and if fought precisely, he's dead in no time)
troll ? Yes, he's heavy to beat.
Corrupt general? not really that hard to beat.
Red angel? if ai times him right, he's deadly!
Blue allied soldier? Even he is a heavy enemy.
Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.
Grim Reaper? Yes, he can provide very long fights, you sometimes have to get a draw instead of a loss.
Mummy? One of the hardest eddies i've encounterd so far.

Would you be so kind a post the statistics of both accounts?

[BillLion]

Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.

I'm super disappointed with how Pharaoh performs w/ AI. Fury -check? Should I make my team invincible? Nah -I think I'll single attack someone that is currently invincible themselves! Ridiculous. :D He should/could be good. Also it seems like the recent tuning actually decreased his healing on revive all for allies that have not died. Can anyone else confirm? I wonder if this was the intent?

[Rygone]

I'm super disappointed with how Pharaoh performs w/ AI. Fury -check? Should I make my team invincible? Nah -I think I'll single attack someone that is currently invincible themselves! Ridiculous. :D He should/could be good. Also it seems like the recent tuning actually decreased his healing on revive all for allies that have not died. Can anyone else confirm? I wonder if this was the intent?

Yeah his heal is ridiculous, mine heals between 600 and 700 hp and the AI... :rolleyes:

[CanyptianFit]

Agree with you BillLion. Pharaoh has so much potential, but the AI is horrible.

Times he should revive he doesn't.

Same with Soldier Eddie, he can be a real asset to the team but his AI is marginal.

ToTameAGame, how about you tell us your account so we can provide some advice?

Some have shared stats, so that point has been made.

[Caretaker]

I'd like to invite you all to particular discussions here
http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?28-General-Discussion

[konstifik]

My PvP-stats for last week:
Attack wins 67/69
Defense wins 3/19

As you can see, I don't play a lot, but I find it remarkable that I was attacked so little. I don't have The Prisoner.

[Nine]

So, I got myself a Warrior Troll today. Even after the first few matches it is a difference of night and day. However, the issue is not the character itself (which could non the less be limited to defensive shields...), but the role it takes on within the system.

I think the problem in this regard is that the first round is still too important, especially if you have limited defensive options in your team selection available. At least in lower ranks (1500-1700) there are so many glass cannon teams who take the gamble on going first (which seems to not be a bad idea at all). Making it to the scond round in full strength you can heal, buff, etc. and have basically won against those teams. If you don't, you have pretty much lost depending on the characters standing. And without a Troll there really isn't much you can do against them except stacking HP.

I would consider reducing the damage in general in the first round - or even make it progressive over the first, if not all, rounds. That not only reduces the value of defensive Passives, but by doing that also renders the Prisoner and Siege less important, because you are not left naked without defenses at the beginning.

[slauki]

So, I got myself a Warrior Troll today. Even after the first few matches it is a difference of night and day. However, the issue is not the character itself (which could non the less be limited to defensive shields...), but the role it takes on within the system.
I would consider reducing the damage in general in the first round - or even make it progressive over the first, if not all, rounds. That not only reduces the value of defensive Passives, but by doing that also renders the Prisoner and Siege less important, because you are not left naked without defenses at the beginning.

like the idea very much, but it would make sentinel teams way too strong, because they would be unkillable in the first turn. and the Ai defense would suffer a lot, since this system favours the human, bacause they can outplay the AI much better. but something along this path could be a good solution to bring in more justice to the system.

[ToTameAGame]

So still no statistics from the top teams with a Prisoner?

Nicko? SilentKnight? Anyone? Defense that high that it might show how OP the toon is?

[Silentknight]

So still no statistics from the top teams with a Prisoner?

Nicko? SilentKnight? Anyone? Defense that high that it might show how OP the toon is?

Really,u need 2 STFU!!! Try reading posts of people trying to help u out! Instead u'd rather call anyone with a Prisoner a coward! I mean anyone that needs to go into someone's profile to find something worth insulting is a little fucked up! Can't even get that right! I'm Canadian & u cut up Trump??? Lemme help u out...we don't elect idiots,we elect potheads! Priorities!!! Never changed subject,subject has always been ur compulsive whining! NotSoSilent...actually i'm very quiet,but when u read someone whining about the same shit day after day...well. Also didn't call anyone else a whiner, just u! Especially when devs have said there will be a talisman set coming. Not quick enuf 4 u... too fucking bad. Guaranteed you or anyone else w/o a prisoner will use him if they get 1. Keep ur smart ass comments coming,just proving what an idiot u r. I am done!!!

[ToTameAGame]

Really,u need 2 STFU!!! Try reading posts of people trying to help u out! Instead u'd rather call anyone with a Prisoner a coward! I mean anyone that needs to go into someone's profile to find something worth insulting is a little fucked up! Can't even get that right! I'm Canadian & u cut up Trump??? Lemme help u out...we don't elect idiots,we elect potheads! Priorities!!! Never changed subject,subject has always been ur compulsive whining! NotSoSilent...actually i'm very quiet,but when u read someone whining about the same shit day after day...well. Also didn't call anyone else a whiner, just u! Especially when devs have said there will be a talisman set coming. Not quick enuf 4 u... too fucking bad. Guaranteed you or anyone else w/o a prisoner will use him if they get 1. Keep ur smart ass comments coming,just proving what an idiot u r. I am done!!!

Can we get your stats now or not?

You need to learn reading - I called your behaviour Trump-ish - because when you don't like something you just avoid it and getting louder. I can see that you are Canadian - for that I don't need to snoop in your profile - the Toronto and the leaf in your profile picture next to every of your posts give it away.

Getting enraged like this over a simple question and an easy to fullfil task - man this defense must be really high. I reckon it's close to 60%!

Would have been much quicker to post the stats than insulting other people again.

@Nicko: you seem to be a more reasonable and fair sportsman - care to share your stats?

[Hypnos]

Can we get your stats now or not?

Getting enraged like this over a simple question and an easy to fulfil task - man this defense must be really high. I reckon it's close to 60%!

Would have been much quicker to post the stats than insulting other people again.

@Nicko: you seem to be a more reasonable and fair sportsman - care to share your stats?

Hi ToTameAGame, I understand where you are coming from. Competing in the arena without a prisoner is certainly a grueling challenge. However no one has to share their personal stats if they don't wish to.

Yes we know prisoner teams are and have always been the strongest out there. Not sure what seeing someone's defense stats for the week will do in terms of balancing out the playing field. As Silentknight noted the devs are sure to have something in place to counter prisoner teams and all we need is a bit of patience.

Just do as the rest of us and have a little patience. This is sure to be resolved soon enough (I hope).

[CanyptianFit]

As stated before, enough people have shared stats, disproving your theory.

Furthermore, there are a number of teams on the bottom with prisoners, also proving he himself in not what matters.

I'd be glad to provide some advice on your teams, if you want to share, and I offered you and anyone to freely see my team and builds.

Many of us share our teams/names without fear of consequences because, that is only a small part of the strategy.

I'd discourage anyone else from disclosing information, we need a 2 way street.

Sunday funday!

[Tritium]

As Canyptian said, Prisoner isn't the be-all and end-all. A Prisoner on a team with toons that have no synergy won't be a huge hurdle to overcome. Prisoner teams truly have to have some thought behind them in order to be threatening. That said, he still deserves to have some kind of counter like any other toon. Some team compositions with him can become near impossible to overcome, even if you go first.

[Nicko]

I share stats with a group of LotB friends in a small forum and hold nothing back. I try to provide helpful insights here when I can. But posting stats on this board seems akin to "showing your cards". Not sure how I'd benefit. If my defense is lower than expected I get attacked more. If it's higher than anticipated people say "See! It's that Prisoner!" without considering I have a huge array of characters I use and have been playing from almost the beginning.

With that being said I appreciate that some of you have shared yours.

I will say Felice (ShaolinLondo) and I were having a discussion this morning. He encouraged me to post about it here. It was interesting to note that although he attacked opponents more often than I did, he RECEIVED less attacks. This is surprising because 1) You would anticipate the increased number of attacks he initiated would generate an increased number of Revenges and 2) He has no Prisoner. I personally would not have expected this, so it goes to prove we can all speculate what we want, but in the end it's just that - speculation.

I'm sure the developers monitor stats. While it's somewhat entertaining to watch the banter on this topic, and I thought the thread proposing possible solutions was great, i'm not really sure how this current discussion is productive. Yes - the Prisoner gives an advantage. So a productive way of approaching that concern is to go to the suspect thread and post your SOLUTION if you think it's too great an advantage. CanyptianFit and others have been great in posting some great ideas. At this point it's really up to the developers.

I do have to say I'm really looking forward to that write-up GMAC said he was editing!

[CanyptianFit]

Well said Nicko. I'm also waiting with baited breath to see what gmac wrote.

Didn't he say it was "coming soon".

😜

[BillLion]

Well said Nicko. I'm also waiting with baited breath to see what gmac wrote.

Didn't he say it was "coming soon".

😜

GMAC is such a tease ;)

[Silentknight]

I share stats with a group of LotB friends in a small forum and hold nothing back. I try to provide helpful insights here when I can. But posting stats on this board seems akin to "showing your cards". Not sure how I'd benefit. If my defense is lower than expected I get attacked more. If it's higher than anticipated people say "See! It's that Prisoner!" without considering I have a huge array of characters I use and have been playing from almost the beginning.

With that being said I appreciate that some of you have shared yours.

I will say Felice (ShaolinLondo) and I were having a discussion this morning. He encouraged me to post about it here. It was interesting to note that although he attacked opponents more often than I did, he RECEIVED less attacks. This is surprising because 1) You would anticipate the increased number of attacks he initiated would generate an increased number of Revenges and 2) He has no Prisoner. I personally would not have expected this, so it goes to prove we can all speculate what we want, but in the end it's just that - speculation.

I'm sure the developers monitor stats. While it's somewhat entertaining to watch the banter on this topic, and I thought the thread proposing possible solutions was great, i'm not really sure how this current discussion is productive. Yes - the Prisoner gives an advantage. So a productive way of approaching that concern is to go to the suspect thread and post your SOLUTION if you think it's too great an advantage. CanyptianFit and others have been great in posting some great ideas. At this point it's really up to the developers.

I do have to say I'm really looking forward to that write-up GMAC said he was editing!

Could be the lists. Shaolinlondo has been on my list maybe 5x tops,including beta. Whereas u,as u know,have been there hundreds. 7x today,6x The Educated Fool, everyone else at least 100 pts less

[Aristo4]

As stated before, enough people have shared stats, disproving your theory.

Furthermore, there are a number of teams on the bottom with prisoners, also proving he himself in not what matters.

Nothing is proved or disproved.
Prisoner teams with no effort, will not be on top anyway.
Non-prisoner teams can be on top with crazy effort. Prisoner teams with the SAME effort will end much higher than non prisoner teams.

I expect Sparton to come with collective data one day, since one case here and one there , say nothing to me personally.

:p

edit: ofcourse i'm talking well built Prisoner teams, not Prisoner together with 3 ox cultists. Prisoner alone wont do shite.

[Nicko]

Nothing is proved or disproved.
Prisoner teams with no effort, will not be on top anyway.
Non-prisoner teams can be on top with crazy effort. Prisoner teams with the SAME effort will end much higher than non prisoner teams.

I expect Sparton to come with collective data one day, since one case here and one there , say nothing to me personally.

:p

edit: ofcourse i'm talking well built Prisoner teams, not Prisoner together with 3 ox cultists. Prisoner alone wont do shite.


See - more speculation. While you dismissed them, that Prisoner team with three Ox Cultists beat me at least once daily, taking my Defensive Hold percentage from 99.6% all the way down to 99.2%.

Infuriating...

[slauki]

I will say Felice (ShaolinLondo) and I were having a discussion this morning. He encouraged me to post about it here. It was interesting to note that although he attacked opponents more often than I did, he RECEIVED less attacks. This is surprising because 1) You would anticipate the increased number of attacks he initiated would generate an increased number of Revenges and 2) He has no Prisoner. I personally would not have expected this, so it goes to prove we can all speculate what we want, but in the end it's just that - speculation.


Could be the lists. Shaolinlondo has been on my list maybe 5x tops,including beta. Whereas u,as u know,have been there hundreds. 7x today,6x The Educated Fool, everyone else at least 100 pts less

i'm very sure the list is bugged to his favor, since i have read it multiple times, that he is not appearing on lists very often (maximum once to me, not sure if he ever showed up). another example: my first account got attacked 308 times the last week, my 2nd account 6(six) times, even if he is much worse... so i think this is another bug, but for sure it's also another speculation :P

[Silentknight]

I'm super disappointed with how Pharaoh performs w/ AI. Fury -check? Should I make my team invincible? Nah -I think I'll single attack someone that is currently invincible themselves! Ridiculous. :D He should/could be good. Also it seems like the recent tuning actually decreased his healing on revive all for allies that have not died. Can anyone else confirm? I wonder if this was the intent?

Most Eddies' AI suck. All toons really. Not sure but I thot healing was lowered in arena. My CR heals for 8500 in PVE but only 5500 in PVP. Might be reduced healing debuff in arena tho. Have to double check

[Silentknight]

See - more speculation. While you dismissed them, that Prisoner team with three Ox Cultists beat me at least once daily, taking my Defensive Hold percentage from 99.6% all the way down to 99.2%.

Infuriating...

LOL,haven't seen that 1 yet. Try BadTaste,lmao

[Nicko]

i'm very sure the list is bugged to his favor, since i have read it multiple times, that he is not appearing on lists very often (maximum once to me, not sure if he ever showed up). another example: my first account got attacked 308 times the last week, my 2nd account 6(six) times, even if he is much worse... so i think this is another bug, but for sure it's also another speculation :P

Interesting point - that we are all not on attack lists equally - that some of us appear more than others. I must confess he's almost never on my list either...

Because it really made no sense. Statistically, if you attack more you should have more revenges. His offensive attacks were over mine significantly so right there he should have had more attacks on him than I did from revenging opponents. And if anything a Prisoner should REDUCE the number of attacks and revenges I get.

Just more mystery in the magical world of (supposed) RNG...

[Nicko]

And to add to that thought - a potentially uneven distribution on the attack lists is likely a bigger issue than the Prisoner. Because Prisoner or no Prisoner, you're defense will likely win at best about 40% of the time. And you take a big hit with each defensive loss. This is an important topic.

I'd love to hear Sparton comment on this. Obviously all conspiracy theory stuff, and maybe people just like Felice more than me so they attack him less:p, but those ratios made absolutely no sense.

[Silentknight]

And to add to that thought - a potentially uneven distribution on the attack lists is likely a bigger issue than the Prisoner. Because Prisoner or no Prisoner, you're defense will likely win at best about 40% of the time. And you take a big hit with each defensive loss. This is an important topic.

I'd love to hear Sparton comment on this. Obviously all conspiracy theory stuff, and maybe people just like Felice more than me so they attack him less:p, but those ratios made absolutely no sense.

True,u r a bit of an ass! J/K. Nicko-The Voice of Reason. Maybe u should run for Prez!

[CanyptianFit]

Yeah, Badtastes team is fun. Tauntfest.

I still went for it.

[Silentknight]

Yeah, Badtastes team is fun. Tauntfest.

I still went for it.

Just gotta go 1st. So much still hinges on that. Too much. More than 1 of those double SSD teams out there too

[Sparton_LOTB]

Interesting point - that we are all not on attack lists equally - that some of us appear more than others. I must confess he's almost never on my list either...

One thing most people don't mention when they're attacked infrequently is what rank they are... except that one guy who mentioned he wasn't ranked super high earlier in this thread.

With more players playing, it's a lot more likely you'll have people near your rank and near your strength to fight in the attack tab, which our matchmaking tries to match people up for. There's still oddities with how the matchmaking tries to accomplish that, sure, but that is nonetheless happening more often now.


Because it really made no sense. Statistically, if you attack more you should have more revenges. His offensive attacks were over mine significantly so right there he should have had more attacks on him than I did from revenging opponents. And if anything a Prisoner should REDUCE the number of attacks and revenges I get.

To a point. Remember, we capped the amount of revenges you can do, so some people probably have different criteria for who they want to revenge. Some people go after those they have a grunge with, others those they feel they're likely to beat, others only against people they've held against...


And to add to that thought - a potentially uneven distribution on the attack lists is likely a bigger issue than the Prisoner. Because Prisoner or no Prisoner, you're defense will likely win at best about 40% of the time. And you take a big hit with each defensive loss. This is an important topic.

I'm still delving into the arcana of matchmaking to find ways to improve it, but not everyone attacks everyone else. We've already seen a bit of a division between those who're happy to refresh to get more solid opponents and those who fight to clear lists for the freebie sands.


Obviously all conspiracy theory stuff, and maybe people just like Felice more than me so they attack him less:p, [...]

Well, we've already seen some rivalry stuff in this thread, so maybe that's more widespread than we think.

[gmac]

Hi guys, here it goes as promised, sorry for the late reply, trying to get my personal life in order now.

About Ironite, time spent and stats
It was a 2000 point run on Saturday and a 1000 point run on Friday. It took me the whole day Saturday and all night Friday. I attacked 638 times during the week, my win rate was 89%. My defense win rate was 23% with 141 attacks to it.
I started the week with 2350 ironite, finished with 1450. (I´m still missing the rewards, so it will be 1700 once that is corrected) So, less Ironite than one could imagine. And I´ve been over 2000 Ironite since Arena beta started, without purchases on the game.

About tactics
The point system sucks, and it sucks 10x more when you are above the top 10. So for now I think t´s better to stay low during the week, save my Ironite and make a run on Saturday. Always did that during beta and was always on the mix for the top 5 or the top 10.
When you make a run, you have to play it fast, clear your list, all of it, and move on. So you need a reliable attack system that makes you win above 90% of battles, FAST.
Others make runs early on the week, built a lead so large that disencourage people to chase them. My defense is not good enough for this strategy, plus the fun for me is on those Saturdays battles.
I don´t care much about revenge, during the week I only revenge people on higher divisions for the points, or people I know my defense gives them trouble

About the Run and why I did it
I always thought about it during beta. I always wanted to battle for n1 and also make a statement that no Prisoner was needed to make a run for it, but I felt I did not had the tools to go for it. Arena went live just about the time I finished building my SSD, so I thought I was ready.
On Friday I was stuck around 2500 points and ready to make a post saying that I could not go after Nicko and Jofer because I needed a Prisoner for it. I always thought otherwise and I was very frustrated and ready to throw in the towel.
Then I though maybe I was just too hanged on playing the game the same way I was before the update. And later in the day I had like an “I see the Matrix” kind of a moment. It just clicked, I started rotating more Champions and all of a sudden I started climbing really fast towards Nicko and Jofer. It felt awesome! I hope I get this felling once more down the road.

So, is The Prisoner OP?
Don´t know how life is with The Prisoner. Maybe he is that extra edge I need to play faster, to rotate with less champions, or make my defense better. But then again, maybe the answer is already on my inventory and I just need to take a further look into it and how I´m playing. For instance, I have to find a way around Prisoner teams in a faster way, AoS is too low on damage so matches take forever, I often get the draw option.
Jofer certainly played faster than me, It felt like he was toying with me anytime I got close, but blaming it on not having The Prisoner is wrong. Jofer was better, period. Others have Prisoners and could not match him either.
I wish that everybody got the same toons if they work hard enough, hope we are going that way with sacrifice. But one thing I learned in life is that we tend to blame our mistakes on what we don´t have, and other people. The key to the top is hard work and constant revision and testing.

And Finally, about Arena
The point system + Ironite to play is bad, I made it this far without spending money to play, but I don´t know if that is going to be possible with lot more people on the Arena.
I believe only 2 or 3 refills a day should count for the rankings, and then the last hours of Saturday´s should be an all out war battle for the prizes. That´s what gets people hooked!
New Guy x Guy with no Prisoner, that is just gold!
I think the future is somehow to broadcast the action on Saturday, I´d love to watch some matches too. It´s fun just watching the board changes. Imagine if we could see the live action. Maybe we are very far away from this, but this should be the goal in my opinion.
And then maybe they can get some advertising, charge us less in the store and made the game more accessible and fun for larger audience...

That´s it. Thanks again Jofer for that battle.

Best
Gmac

[Ringe666-7406]

With more players playing, it's a lot more likely you'll have people near your rank and near your strength to fight in the attack tab, which our matchmaking tries to match people up for. There's still oddities with how the matchmaking tries to accomplish that, sure, but that is nonetheless happening more often now.

Really? Whole day yesterday, one and one only guy on my list was over 1700, with 1706 to be exact. Every other had 1600<x<1700. Every. Single. One. And i was at 1800-900 whole day. And how convenient it was on Saturday and not some other day. Should I "build better defense" to get better list?

[Silentknight]

Lists have more variety but Nicko & Shaolinlondo are usually pretty close (top 5) and I'm usually between 10-15. Yet since this started,beta included,there's a huge difference between appearances. I mean 5 to a couple hundred! Today,Nicko 8+x,Shaolinlondo 0!l

[HomemLivre]

I JUST got attacked 83 times in a F* Day!!!!
What the hell is wrong with this list, Sparton?

Edit: 90%+ was not revenge.

[Qed]

I was waiting for the arena since the release and reistalled the app today since i heard it was implemented.
I have to say that I'm quite disappointed, the non live play almost reduce it to a mindless ironite-time grinding since there is really no way a decent builded team will lose against a team managed by the retarded AI. I played one hundred games or so and lost just 3-4 when I was bursted down after i lost the initiative without pressing basically any key in a lockdown of stuns-taunts.

Not going into any balancing issues here, just the basics of the system are so bad that any other argument seems secondary to me.

[HomemLivre]

Better repost before being ignored:

I JUST got attacked 83 times in a F* Day!!!!
What the hell is wrong with this list, Sparton?

Edit: 90%+ was not revenge.

[Nicko]

For those who want to know my first week PvP stats - compared to others posted - I've posted them here:

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4884-Week-1-of-PvP-The-Prisoner-Attack-Lists-and-Pay-to-Win&p=31711#post31711

[Silentknight]

Lists have more variety but Nicko & Shaolinlondo are usually pretty close (top 5) and I'm usually between 10-15. Yet since this started,beta included,there's a huge difference between appearances. I mean 5 to a couple hundred! Today,Nicko 8+x,Shaolinlondo 0!l

Now here's a conspiracy theory. Just got shaolinlondo. The same thing happened in beta. No PizzaFriday 1st 2 weeks. As soon as I mentioned it in forum, next day there he is! Lmao!!!

[Nicko]

Better repost before being ignored:

I JUST got attacked 83 times in a F* Day!!!!
What the hell is wrong with this list, Sparton?

Edit: 90%+ was not revenge.

Go post your stats in my PvP thread. Something weird is going on

[slauki]

Now here's a conspiracy theory. Just got shaolinlondo. The same thing happened in beta. No PizzaFriday 1st 2 weeks. As soon as I mentioned it in forum, next day there he is! Lmao!!!

don't get confused with a single observation, he appears simply far less often as others. and yes pizzafriday was the same issue i belive. check nickos thread for more detailed numbers and possible explenations of this.

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4884-Week-1-of-PvP-The-Prisoner-Attack-Lists-and-Pay-to-Win

[Silentknight]

don't get confused with a single observation, he appears simply far less often as others. and yes pizzafriday was the same issue i belive. check nickos thread for more detailed numbers and possible explenations of this.

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4884-Week-1-of-PvP-The-Prisoner-Attack-Lists-and-Pay-to-Win

Nah,just think it's funny as soon as I mentioned it,it changes. Kinda like when I asked for anyone to try & come up with a better point system & 5 min. later they say they're shutting it down. It's like "really !"

[Kutte]

Imho the current PvP system doesn't make any sense and it is not rewarding at all since there is no loot for whatever reason.

I made a run on thursday evening and stopped at Rank 17 simply because i got bored of the always same teams and the taunt/stun/freeze fest. Despite all the bugs i slaughtered many prisoner/troll/AoF Teams without many problems (i don't have them myself) and got ... 60 ironite. Yay, partytime!
You have to buy SoW to get that far so this is a loss-making business. Better yet, you punish the player for playing - uhm what's the point of that?

Another problem: if i had made it to #1 on saturday evening (CET), i simply would have no chance staying at a high place. I have kids and a life. The system resets when i'm alread in bed and many players just begin climbing the ranks.

[slauki]

Nah,just think it's funny as soon as I mentioned it,it changes. Kinda like when I asked for anyone to try & come up with a better point system & 5 min. later they say they're shutting it down. It's like "really !"

Ah okay, will try this too:" i play since the first week and i never got a prisoner, tailgunner, or gunner rescuer in the whole time" :D hope this will change asap :P

One very positive sidenote: the game doesn't crash that often anymore. Only some very occational maclos or pvte0s. Good job on this front. All in all the forum is alive again and i can see the silver light on the horizon. Only sacrifice, BNW and more content are needed for a great mobile gaming exlerience. But great progress in total, keep up this good path. The PVP adjustments are important too, but i think of this as still in progress. So i'm pretty positive about the future of this game.

[ToTameAGame]

Imho the current PvP system doesn't make any sense and it is not rewarding at all since there is no loot for whatever reason.

I made a run on thursday evening and stopped at Rank 17 simply because i got bored of the always same teams and the taunt/stun/freeze fest. Despite all the bugs i slaughtered many prisoner/troll/AoF Teams without many problems (i don't have them myself) and got ... 60 ironite. Yay, partytime!
You have to buy SoW to get that far so this is a loss-making business. Better yet, you punish the player for playing - uhm what's the point of that?

Another problem: if i had made it to #1 on saturday evening (CET), i simply would have no chance staying at a high place. I have kids and a life. The system resets when i'm alread in bed and many players just begin climbing the ranks.

I don't see it that dark. The thing is that the devs are providing a service and for any service you enjoy you are willing to pay for it. The problem at the moment is that the game is not rewarding enough to enjoy it that much that you are willing to put a dime into. Less dupes, better rewards for legendary souls (RNG really sucks) and a point system that is actually fair in PvP would already be wnough for me to spend some money for enjoyment of time. (plus the trooper grind needs to consume way less time).

[Qed]

I don't see it that dark. The thing is that the devs are providing a service and for any service you enjoy you are willing to pay for it. The problem at the moment is that the game is not rewarding enough to enjoy it that much that you are willing to put a dime into. Less dupes, better rewards for legendary souls (RNG really sucks) and a point system that is actually fair in PvP would already be wnough for me to spend some money for enjoyment of time. (plus the trooper grind needs to consume way less time).

To earn money from a game it has to be a decent-good game, or to have a solid fanbase like the cod serie. This is not the scenario here, this arena is not good, it's not a matter or rewards, it'a a metter of core-mechanics of the game. Playing forever versus a retarded AI is not fun, not worth paying for and boring after a very short period.

Playing versus another player as the arena-pvp idea should suggest is much more catchy, do it proper and you can sell even worthless addons, skins, gadgets for a decent price. Take as example the free to play MOBA, they earn milions through selling champions skins, and this just for the fact a lot of players enjoy the game, there is competition around it, there is interest in playing it ecc...

How can be interesting to gring versus presetted teams used by a dumb AI where the point is to build your team grinding the same levels, skip the opponents well setted and endlessy farm the others?
You wont catch more players anyway except some tamagochi addicted, no matter which rewards you put at the end of the fight, if the fight sucks people just wont take it.

[BillLion]

Top prizes should go to those who grind/spend the most. I just can't do that, so I can't be top 25. No problem, that's fair.

But PVP should be rewarding to those who can play moderately too. I achieved rank 125 last week -not too bad and the rewards at that rank are OK for moderate play, but I couldn't get them because of trophy requirements -which I couldn't achieve because my defensive attacks (248) were double my offensive ones (112).

If this keeps up people who desire to play moderately will end up deciding to go full aggro for more awards or (more likely) just put in the bare minimum for daily rewards and shop prizes.

I've already made my thoughts known on trophy losses and have suggested (what I believe to be) reasonable solutions. Please consider this. Even a moderate grind (which is a lot for me when you add on playing 50 troopers) has to be sufficiently rewarding to keep playas playing.

EDIT ADD: I by no means consider myself a moderate player in general as I put hours into the game each day -just in PVP comparatively. I think that should be weighed in on this feedback. (Implement my fast pass suggestion and I'll have more time for PVP!)

[Silentknight]

Ah okay, will try this too:" i play since the first week and i never got a prisoner, tailgunner, or gunner rescuer in the whole time" :D hope this will change asap :P

One very positive sidenote: the game doesn't crash that often anymore. Only some very occational maclos or pvte0s. Good job on this front. All in all the forum is alive again and i can see the silver light on the horizon. Only sacrifice, BNW and more content are needed for a great mobile gaming exlerience. But great progress in total, keep up this good path. The PVP adjustments are important too, but i think of this as still in progress. So i'm pretty positive about the future of this game.

LMAO! GL! Hate what they did to ur bats. Main reason I don't attack u as much anymore.

[Silentknight]

One very positive sidenote: the game doesn't crash that often anymore. Only some very occational maclos or pvte0s. Good job on this front. All in all the forum is alive again and i can see the silver light on the horizon. Only sacrifice, BNW and more content are needed for a great mobile gaming exlerience. But great progress in total, keep up this good path. The PVP adjustments are important too, but i think of this as still in progress. So i'm pretty positive about the future of this game.
Same here,3 days no errors! New record!

[slauki]

hey sparton, one observation of mine:

when the pvp-list refreshes automaticly it will give you a totally different playerpool, which is mixed with highranks, middleranks and lowranks.
when i refresh it manually, only lowranks appears 90% of the time. please check this, i made this observation so often now, that it cannot be simple coincidence.
i belive it's also the case, when you clear your list and gain 2 extra sow. so maybe only the manually refresh causes problems.
if every manual refresh would work that way, this issue could be solved in a simple way.

[ToTameAGame]

hey sparton, one observation of mine:

when the pvp-list refreshes automaticly it will give you a totally different playerpool, which is mixed with highranks, middleranks and lowranks.
when i refresh it manually, only lowranks appears 90% of the time. please check this, i made this observation so often now, that it cannot be simple coincidence.
i belive it's also the case, when you clear your list and gain 2 extra sow. so maybe only the manually refresh causes problems.
if every manual refresh would work that way, this issue could be solved in a simple way.

That's not a bug - that's actually a feature: http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4854-February-14th-2017-PVP-Arena-Update-Discussion&p=31377#post31377 (3rd answer)

[Caretaker]

That's not a bug - that's actually a feature: http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4854-February-14th-2017-PVP-Arena-Update-Discussion&p=31377#post31377 (3rd answer)

Missed that one. Lol lol lol. Tnx!
And I'm heavily disappointed. But it still sucks bigtime as a feature and proves it's tweeked for us to suffer and make only early week runs. Blah

It explains shitlist! But it doesn't solve matchmaking

[Silentknight]

hey sparton, one observation of mine:

when the pvp-list refreshes automaticly it will give you a totally different playerpool, which is mixed with highranks, middleranks and lowranks.
when i refresh it manually, only lowranks appears 90% of the time. please check this, i made this observation so often now, that it cannot be simple coincidence.
i belive it's also the case, when you clear your list and gain 2 extra sow. so maybe only the manually refresh causes problems.
if every manual refresh would work that way, this issue could be solved in a simple way.
Same here. Sorta. If u wait a little longer or the 2nd time u refresh it's usually better. Refresh right away,same names or lower ranks. Stupid setup,if I refresh I want better ranks. Sure seems like everything is designed to attack lower ranks

[Tritium]

Bleh, PVP is no longer fun for me now. My lack of skillsharded toons means that my fights usually go like this: If I go first, ~85% of the time I'll win unless I make a dumb move or the AI gets incredibly lucky (taunts, stuns, freezes, GS heals, invisibility, etc.). If I go second, ~70% of the time I'll lose due to losing 1-2 toons right away. My lone SSD can't take on a whole team on his own (although there have been some incredible times ;) ).

This makes PVP rather frustrating for me, and as such, it has become more of a boring chore than a fun experience. I get attacked often enough for my offensive gains to be rendered useless. At this point, I'm doing it only for the Iron Coins that I can use to finally get more skillshards and legendary souls.

Honestly, I've yet to find a game similar in play-style to LOTB that actually has a fun PVP system. I guess it just comes with the territory of these types of games that PVP will generally be a dull experience unless you're a longtime player who has ample resources stockpiled. :S

[Mizrael]

Honestly, I've yet to find a game similar in play-style to LOTB that actually has a fun PVP system. I guess it just comes with the territory of these types of games that PVP will generally be a dull experience unless you're a longtime player who has ample resources stockpiled. :S

That's because this genre isn't naturally meant to have a PVP and,imho, isn't seeked out by individuals who like to play PVP. if you like PVP go play some MOBA or mmorpg. turn based rpgs are more for the layed back players, who like to take their time to think about their moves and see a challenge in collecting all the characters,talismans and maxing them out to beat some bad ass boss. at least that's what i came here for...

take for instance chess. imagine that someone would suddenly try to create new rules and units with laser guns,who can teleport and multiply and idk what...that wouldn't be chess anymore,would it?

What this kind of game needs is new worlds and special stages which provide a gradually higher challenge for the player and bring with them new in depth contents and new ways to further develop your precious characters. but that would require a dedicated team of pro developers, who know their game,have a clear vision of where it's headed and most importantly know how to get it there.

I don't mean to insult the guys from NF but sadly from what we have seen so far proves that it never was and never will be in their capabilities to provide a steady income of new content.

BNW has been stalled for 4 months now. they obviously ran into some unexpected complications with it and had to pull it back. what we ended up with was just another carrot in form of a few new characters to shut the fanboys up.
I have a feeling that even PVP was just another rushed cover up for not having anything else functioning as intended(at least to me it seemed that Sparton was holding onto it like a drowning man onto a straw,not talking about anything else). and even with a "beta test" it ended up being released with major issues,imbalances and all it provides is a free ride to the easily earned rewards for those who don't need them anyway and frustration for the rest.
it's far from where i would like to see the game going and i hope that it isn't (as Slauki called it) the future of this game.

Im holding my breath till BNW gets released to see if we will see some solutions to the core problems, which have been around ever since the release (or have been added by NF taking over and chaotically nerfing stuff without putting any deeper though into it).
I want to see answers to my(by now prehistoric) questions like:
-What is the use of skilled,mystical,sorcery and co. talismans?
-what is the use of iron,ivory(please don't say Viking Eddie!) and co. talismans?
-why do we only have about 4-5 (mostly the dull main stat increasing) talisman sets which are a must and the rest either completely vanquished,have been nerfed beyond useful or just never had any use?
-why do skills have a misleading, confusing and sometimes even unfinished description which forces you to go and try it yourself if it hits 1,random or all targets?is there any difference between:damage..."increases the higher", "scales of", "is based on"...bla bla?(i dont see any)
-why do 2 different skills have the same picture? (fe. twist of fate&cast)
-useless slot colours which make a character do near to no damage
-aso,aso,aso

Im not even getting into discussing bugs,because that would be enough for a book (remember Witkacy? i loved reading your novels,polish brat 😙).but i think that the devs should focus on sorting the basics out before adding more fancy stuff which gets boring after a week and makes this game almost a full time job.

[Metallion]

I've searched but haven't found the answer so I'm asking here. Hope it's the right area to discuss. Why does my team go into autoplay? Character turns and attacks are not often what I would choose and I can honestly say I'd have won at least one (read:lots more) close battle if not for something taking over. Why does this happen? Can I do something to stop or minimize it?
I love the arena BTW. It totally rocks.
Keep up the awesome work LOTB tream!

[Sag7272]

I've searched but haven't found the answer so I'm asking here. Hope it's the right area to discuss. Why does my team go into autoplay? Character turns and attacks are not often what I would choose and I can honestly say I'd have won at least one (read:lots more) close battle if not for something taking over. Why does this happen? Can I do something to stop or minimize it?
I love the arena BTW. It totally rocks.
Keep up the awesome work LOTB tream!
Been taunted by SSD & Mummy in a repeated way?
There's some occurences where it still a "Sit back & watch" kind of fight but believe me, it was Waaay worse before they adjust freeze tallisman..

[Nine]

I noticed an issue that is so big I am really suprised nobody noticed or at least mentioned it before - at least I didn't read about it anywhere.

In short: Buffs granted by Passives are ticking down too quickly if the player loses the coin toss and goes second.


In more detail: I'll put down the first two rounds of a given fight. Imagine the Passive is Accuracy, it lasts for two rounds, so in theory for the complete time shown now (issue is the same with buffs lasting for one round, but I think it is more clear this way).

Szenario A: Player wins the Coin toss
A.1 The Player uses the passive:
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. I (=the player) attack and profit from the buff, the opponent attacks, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack again profit from the buff, the buff ticks down, the opponent attacks, the buff expires, done.

A.2 The AI uses the passive:
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. I attack, the enemy attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack, the enemy attacks again profititing from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff expires, done.

All right, so far so good.

Szenario B: The AI wins the coin toss.
B.1 The player uses the passive.
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. The opponent attacks, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack and profit from the buff, the opponent attacks, the buff ticks down and expires. I attack again.

B.2 The AI uses the passive.
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. The opponent attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack, the opponent attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down and expires. I attack again.

So in all cases except B.1 the passive-user gets two attacks supported by the buff, which is inconsistant. The issue affects both offensive buffs and defensive ones. With a defensive one, the problem would be B.2, where it it helps the AI defending only one turn instead of two.
Actually it is even more more problematic with defensive Buffs since as a Player you miss those an own and an enemy turn more compared to a won coin toss. Which is worse since you can take damage and get CC'd even during you own turn.

One could argue that with the coin toss being hugely important due to the fact that the first round is hugely important the loser of the coin toss should not be punished further. But I don't even wanna get into any evaluating here, just pointing out that the way it is now is different from how it should be (at least by the logic that one round last one player and one AI turn).



Other bugs:
- the initital attack of Vampire Hunter Strike now does less damage than the triggered attacks
- the triggered attacks from Soldier Eddies Bullet Trace deal way less damage than the initial attack (although it might be kind of overpowered if it was otherwise...)
- Bleed (the debuff) does no damage although it should
- the damage from Vampire Hunter's Mark ability is calculated in a very strange way (the damage when applying the mark, not consuming it). It doesn't scale with magic or attack, it also does not scale with enemy HP, but it does scale with something I don't know from the enemy. I noticed it in PvE before where the damage of Mark with no Skill Shards fluctuates between 2.x and 3.2 k damage in GoD Madness, with higher numbers for enemies with less HP. The same Vampire Hunter deals 800 till around 2.5 k damage in PvP (the latter one rarely) on non-Gunner chars. Something is really off there
- the language of the new "news" is not the language you selected in settings (but rather the device language...?)
(- I got the feeling that Talisman Procs are not affected by accuracy, could anybody verify that they are? Or that they should?)

[Kamuz24z]

I noticed an issue that is so big I am really suprised nobody noticed or at least mentioned it before - at least I didn't read about it anywhere.

In short: Buffs granted by Passives are ticking down too quickly if the player loses the coin toss and goes second.


In more detail: I'll put down the first two rounds of a given fight. Imagine the Passive is Accuracy, it lasts for two rounds, so in theory for the complete time shown now (issue is the same with buffs lasting for one round, but I think it is more clear this way).

Szenario A: Player wins the Coin toss
A.1 The Player uses the passive:
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. I (=the player) attack and profit from the buff, the opponent attacks, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack again profit from the buff, the buff ticks down, the opponent attacks, the buff expires, done.

A.2 The AI uses the passive:
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. I attack, the enemy attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack, the enemy attacks again profititing from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff expires, done.

All right, so far so good.

Szenario B: The AI wins the coin toss.
B.1 The player uses the passive.
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. The opponent attacks, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack and profit from the buff, the opponent attacks, the buff ticks down and expires. I attack again.

B.2 The AI uses the passive.
When the game starts the buff shows 2 rounds. The opponent attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down, the buff shows 1. I attack, the opponent attacks and profits from the buff, the buff ticks down and expires. I attack again.

So in all cases except B.1 the passive-user gets two attacks supported by the buff, which is inconsistant. The issue affects both offensive buffs and defensive ones. With a defensive one, the problem would be B.2, where it it helps the AI defending only one turn instead of two.
Actually it is even more more problematic with defensive Buffs since as a Player you miss those an own and an enemy turn more compared to a won coin toss. Which is worse since you can take damage and get CC'd even during you own turn.

One could argue that with the coin toss being hugely important due to the fact that the first round is hugely important the loser of the coin toss should not be punished further. But I don't even wanna get into any evaluating here, just pointing out that the way it is now is different from how it should be (at least by the logic that one round last one player and one AI turn).



Other bugs:
- the initital attack of Vampire Hunter Strike now does less damage than the triggered attacks
- the triggered attacks from Soldier Eddies Bullet Trace deal way less damage than the initial attack (although it might be kind of overpowered if it was otherwise...)
- Bleed (the debuff) does no damage although it should
- the damage from Vampire Hunter's Mark ability is calculated in a very strange way (the damage when applying the mark, not consuming it). It doesn't scale with magic or attack, it also does not scale with enemy HP, but it does scale with something I don't know from the enemy. I noticed it in PvE before where the damage of Mark with no Skill Shards fluctuates between 2.x and 3.2 k damage in GoD Madness, with higher numbers for enemies with less HP. The same Vampire Hunter deals 800 till around 2.5 k damage in PvP (the latter one rarely) on non-Gunner chars. Something is really off there
- the language of the new "news" is not the language you selected in settings (but rather the device language...?)
(- I got the feeling that Talisman Procs are not affected by accuracy, could anybody verify that they are? Or that they should?)

I was also looking for info about this feature of pvp I think losing the coin toss is good enough when my team goes against a team that has a blue bat I'll keep the passives in some of the toons if I go first but if I go second the passive just disappear on every toon this feature makes the blue bat OP close to a prisoner

[Sparton_LOTB]

I noticed an issue that is so big I am really suprised nobody noticed or at least mentioned it before - at least I didn't read about it anywhere.

In short: Buffs granted by Passives are ticking down too quickly if the player loses the coin toss and goes second.

Ah, it sounds like the way that Accuracy Up is counting down is counting as though it were a defensive buff, not an offensive buff.

Things like Accuracy Up should be counting down after your character acts to use it (like Perfect Hits, or Attack Up) so that you'll get two turns out of it. This contrasts to defensive buffs (like the Warrior Troll's passive and power skills), which should count down based on the enemy team taking their turns.

I'll pass that along to get fixed.


Other bugs:
[Stuff]

I'll pass these along too.

One thing I can say is that Talisman Procs are not supposed to be affected by Accuracy Up or Accuracy Down. Talisman procs are not skill effects, and Accuracy Up/Down only affects chance-based effects that are directly from skills.

[Nine]

Ah, it sounds like the way that Accuracy Up is counting down is counting as though it were a defensive buff, not an offensive buff.

Things like Accuracy Up should be counting down after your character acts to use it (like Perfect Hits, or Attack Up) so that you'll get two turns out of it. This contrasts to defensive buffs (like the Warrior Troll's passive and power skills), which should count down based on the enemy team taking their turns.

I'll pass that along to get fixed.



Thanks for the quick response. If it is only Accuracy then that might explain why nobody else has mentioned it.

Now that you point out the difference (that I actually noticed before but kind of have forgotten about) I'll have to check again when exactly the defensive ones tick down and if case B.2 is affected as I thought or not.

Wouldn't it be easier though to have all buffs tick down once the player and the enemy have taken a turn? I guess it didn't matter without PvP, but now there is actually a difference.

Edit says: here was an example that didn't make sense, I come back to this later (which means tomorrow), I guess...


Also thank you for clearing up the Talisman thing! "Chance of effects" in the tooltip left some room for interpretation and maybe it was wishful thinking that it did affect Talismans :p


Oh, what I just remember: Your Arena Team doesn't get carried over from device to device (or at least nor reliably). I think this is true for the defensive one as well as for the offensive one.

[gmac]

Hi Sparton,

Could you help us on the number of attacks Issue?

I got attacked 290 times this week so far, that´s more than double last week´s numbers.

And last week I was attacked way less than anybody that shared theirs stats, any idea why? (I´m running the same defense)

Thanks for the help

Best
Gmac

[Rygone]

What is the average attack per week ? 290 seems normal to me, I've been attacked 314 times last week and 277 times this week and there's 2 days left.

2512

[gmac]

Hi Rygone,

I don´t have a clue to what is normal. Trying to find out

Thing is last week I was attacked only 141 times and I attacked a lot, 638 times.

So, what´s the difference from last week to this week? My defense is the same.

Is it because I´m in lower division? Or was I lucky? Or maybe there was a bug? Is it that I´m not spending lots of Ironite? How does the system work?

Hope Devs help us answer these questions.

Best
Gmac

[Sparton_LOTB]

Could you help us on the number of attacks Issue?

I got attacked 290 times this week so far, that´s more than double last week´s numbers.

And last week I was attacked way less than anybody that shared theirs stats, any idea why? (I´m running the same defense)

Specifically regarding your low amount of defenses last week... we're kinda puzzled why that was the case for you too. Something about there being magnitudes more players competing in the game relative to the beta has made it so the matchmaking is prioritizing some people in a way that we didn't expect.

I don't want to get into too many specifics (in case there's an exploit to be had which can make people less likely to be attacked), but I have dived into it with a programmer and we're working on adjusting matchmaking values, changing some steps of the matchmaking logic, and ensuring we can sanity check matchmaking requests as though we were players on the live server (without actually affecting what those players would see).

In general, the game tries to populate your attack list with players around your VP and with players who have characters around the same strength as your characters, but it looks like you'll be more likely to be a possible attack list target for someone else at certain ranges of points in the leaderboard.

[gmac]

Specifically regarding your low amount of defenses last week... we're kinda puzzled why that was the case for you too. Something about there being magnitudes more players competing in the game relative to the beta has made it so the matchmaking is prioritizing some people in a way that we didn't expect.

I don't want to get into too many specifics (in case there's an exploit to be had which can make people less likely to be attacked), but I have dived into it with a programmer and we're working on adjusting matchmaking values, changing some steps of the matchmaking logic, and ensuring we can sanity check matchmaking requests as though we were players on the live server (without actually affecting what those players would see).

In general, the game tries to populate your attack list with players around your VP and with players who have characters around the same strength as your characters, but it looks like you'll be more likely to be a possible attack list target for someone else at certain ranges of points in the leaderboard.

Sparton,

It´s awesome that you guys come to chat with us.

Really, forum does not give you and Kaz enough credit.

Having said that, I´m as mad as hell, fells like my results, my effort, they were not real, and certainly unfair to others.

And this issue probably affected more people too... still do perhaps?!

I´m just sad, sad day in LOTB history overall :(
Best
Gmac

[Caretaker]

I don't want to get into too many specifics (in case there's an exploit to be had which can make people less likely to be attacked), but I have dived into it with a programmer and we're working on adjusting matchmaking values, changing some steps of the matchmaking logic, and ensuring we can sanity check matchmaking requests as though we were players on the live server (without actually affecting what those players would see).

In general, the game tries to populate your attack list with players around your VP and with players who have characters around the same strength as your characters, but it looks like you'll be more likely to be a possible attack list target for someone else at certain ranges of points in the leaderboard.

Oh GOD NO! You are still insisting on that mystical matchmaking that counts skills classes and talisman setup. Either don't, either EXPLAIN IT so everyone can calculate and counter. We'll have same lists each time all over again,no matter how you put it. Ufcorse there will be exploits. I exploit first turn already. At least it feels that way. Just make it uniform and random, point dependant, regardless of teams for some kind of variety, please.

[HomemLivre]

Well, looks like Im far away from people who get attacked several times.

Atm I was attacked a total of 362 times. I have no prisoner, no warrior troll, no sentinel allied bomber boy, no sentinel souless demon... what make it even worse.

I really want answers for this, its an unfair competition. How can I rank up like this? I have none of the toons mentioned before, what make my defense worse than the avarage. Im in need of spend lots more ironite to compensate the fact that I appear in EVERYONES list.

Last week I was attacked a total of 274 times in that few days. Will you guys compensate us (which are shown in everyones list) in the Ironite that we need to spend lots more than the others? Or you guys think we should buy from the store just to compensate this f* annoying bug? Im tired to be ignored in here and really want a response from the devs @Sparton_LOTB.

[mjmxiii]

Hey Sparton, have you guys given any thought to rewarding best defensive team in a given week? Highest DEF % out of highest total defensive matches = something cool? We all know what we get if we're 1-25 and attacking 24/7 but it would be cool if there was a reward for the top 1-25 defenses out there too. Might help ease the sting of being attacked 250+ times.

[slauki]

.

That said, if you end up being stalled at this amount while spending all the energy you naturally regain even through to Saturday, then certainly we will have a problem, and we'll look at tuning to make it so players are not stalled at such a point so far before the rank-based divisions.


dear sparton,

exactly what you mentioned happend to me and many others. i'm stuck at 1900 points since monday! sure my defense dropped from 32% to only 21% that's definetly a big problem. but nontheless i played all "natural" sow and won 96% of all matches. most of them for 18+ points, but i'm still not able to get anyway near 2100 or even 2300 points. and the big rush will start tomorrow. i think many player suffer from this. so basicly there is no reason to play, if i don't want to spent huge amount of ironite. i bet you know who sisyphos is, because this is the pecfect example for a sisyphos work. the stone rolles down again and again.

2535

please don't get me wrong. i don't expect to get near top 10 or even top 50 without refilling, so i have kinda realistic expectations i think. the problem is i cannot see any progress. it demotivates me and others, because we grind up, and then over night we fall down. that's really taking away the fun. it's not possible to build a 35% defense without some of the discussed toons. sure i could probaby think harder about my defense and talismans, since i have a pretty nice rooster, but 90% of all players are not that fortunate, so they have to play with what they have. and with the current system they many of them will loose the fun very soon.

[HomemLivre]

dear sparton,

exactly what you mentioned happend to me and many others. i'm stuck at 1900 points since monday! sure my defense dropped from 32% to only 21% that's definetly a big problem. but nontheless i played all "natural" sow and won 96% of all matches. most of them for 18+ points, but i'm still not able to get anyway near 2100 or even 2300 points. and the big rush will start tomorrow. i think many player suffer from this. so basicly there is no reason to play, if i don't want to spent huge amount of ironite. i bet you know who sisyphos is, because this is the pecfect example for a sisyphos work. the stone rolles down again and again.

2535

please don't get me wrong. i don't expect to get near top 10 or even top 50 without refilling, so i have kinda realistic expectations i think. the problem is i cannot see any progress. it demotivates me and others, because we grind up, and then over night we fall down. that's really taking away the fun. it's not possible to build a 35% defense without some of the discussed toons. sure i could probaby think harder about my defense and talismans, since i have a pretty nice rooster, but 90% of all players are not that fortunate, so they have to play with what they have. and with the current system they many of them will loose the fun very soon.

Hope that he hears at least you, Slauki.

Im going to repost my previous reply with updated numbers:

Well, looks like Im far away from people who get attacked several times.

Atm I was attacked a total of 385 times. I have no prisoner, no warrior troll, no sentinel allied bomber boy, no sentinel souless demon... what make it even worse.

I really want answers for this, its an unfair competition. How can I rank up like this? I have none of the toons mentioned before, what make my defense worse than the avarage. Im in need of spend lots more ironite to compensate the fact that I appear in EVERYONES list.

Last week I was attacked a total of 274 times in that few days. Will you guys compensate us (which are shown in everyones list) in the Ironite that we need to spend lots more than the others? Or you guys think we should buy from the store just to compensate this f* annoying bug? Im tired to be ignored in here and really want a response from the devs @Sparton_LOTB.

[RCarter]

Atm I was attacked a total of 385 times. I have no prisoner, no warrior troll, no sentinel allied bomber boy, no sentinel souless demon... what make it even worse.

Not trying to compete here, but as of this writing I've been attacked 386 times. And that is with a Prisoner and Warrior Troll in my line up.

386 seems pretty high to me. Maybe RNGesus really doesn't like me after all...

[HomemLivre]

Not trying to compete here, but as of this writing I've been attacked 386 times. And that is with a Prisoner and Warrior Troll in my line up.

386 seems pretty high to me. Maybe RNGesus really doesn't like me after all...

Somethings definitely wrong in here and its not about rgn, its about a broken system that smash some players and let others enjoy a tour in the park.

[Lord Schmeb]

Hey Sparton, have you guys given any thought to rewarding best defensive team in a given week? Highest DEF % out of highest total defensive matches = something cool? We all know what we get if we're 1-25 and attacking 24/7 but it would be cool if there was a reward for the top 1-25 defenses out there too. Might help ease the sting of being attacked 250+ times.

This is a great idea. As Mel, the cook on Alice, says "The best oh-fense is a good defense." Or something like that.


Not trying to compete here, but as of this writing I've been attacked 386 times. And that is with a Prisoner and Warrior Troll in my line up.

386 seems pretty high to me. Maybe RNGesus really doesn't like me after all...

Ya, something is screwy. I am currently at 741 attacks and have only been attacked 195 times. (Of which I've only won FIFTEEN times (whopping 8%) -- ya, my defensive team is atrocious, but can't figure out a good strategy to save my life) Last week was similar; 461 attacks, but only attacked 85 times.

To say that I'm easy points would be the understatement of the year, and clearly nobody is avoiding me and my wicked 4-star lineup o-fury.

[Frost]

I got 6 days w/o a single attack, but since yesteday I seen to appear in everyone's list, got attacked almost 100 times...

I went from 2300 points to 1800 while I was sleeping!!!

My defense team sucks? Well, I have no OP F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris so you can say: my def don't suck, THE AI OF THIS GAME SUCKS.

Really, PvP makes me want to quit right now... A week's effort lost because I need to sleep.

[mjmxiii]

This is a great idea. As Mel, the cook on Alice, says "The best oh-fense is a good defense." Or something like that

Damn I feel old when someone mentions a show I actually used to watch back in the day. Wonder how many others know the reference.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton, have you guys given any thought to rewarding best defensive team in a given week? Highest DEF % out of highest total defensive matches = something cool? We all know what we get if we're 1-25 and attacking 24/7 but it would be cool if there was a reward for the top 1-25 defenses out there too. Might help ease the sting of being attacked 250+ times.

We want to incentive people to have both good attack and defense win rates, and unfortunately getting a good defensive winrate can cause people to do counter-intuitive things (such as staying low in the rankings to trick weaker people into attacking your defense). A high defense rate naturally helps you with climbing the leaderboard, which we feel is rewarding enough.


exactly what you mentioned happend to me and many others. i'm stuck at 1900 points since monday! sure my defense dropped from 32% to only 21% that's definetly a big problem. but nontheless i played all "natural" sow and won 96% of all matches. most of them for 18+ points, but i'm still not able to get anyway near 2100 or even 2300 points.


Well, looks like Im far away from people who get attacked several times.

Atm I was attacked a total of 385 times.


Not trying to compete here, but as of this writing I've been attacked 386 times. And that is with a Prisoner and Warrior Troll in my line up.


Ya, something is screwy. I am currently at 741 attacks and have only been attacked 195 times. (Of which I've only won FIFTEEN times (whopping 8%) -- ya, my defensive team is atrocious, but can't figure out a good strategy to save my life) Last week was similar; 461 attacks, but only attacked 85 times.


I got 6 days w/o a single attack, but since yesteday I seen to appear in everyone's list, got attacked almost 100 times...

I went from 2300 points to 1800 while I was sleeping!!!

I understand your frustrations regarding the matchmaking, but unfortunately we're still working on identifying what is causing some people to be attacked more than others. Improving matchmaking continues to be one of my primary tasks that I'm working on, and we will push adjustments to the live game as soon as we can.

[mjmxiii]

I went from 2300 points to 1800 while I was sleeping!!!

You have to put everything else aside and play 24/7 or else PvP is going to be very, VERY frustrating. If its any consolation, what you're going through is happening to a lot of us.

I figured out how to beat the Prisoner though... First thing you have to do is, you gotta really want to watch him fall. After that it's all about how quickly you can kill him. :p

[mjmxiii]

We want to incentive people to have both good attack and defense win rates, and unfortunately getting a good defensive winrate can cause people to do counter-intuitive things (such as staying low in the rankings to trick weaker people into attacking your defense). A high defense rate naturally helps you with climbing the leaderboard, which we feel is rewarding enough.

Copy that. Thanks for the reply dude. Hey man, putting all my bullshitting and giving you guys a hard time aside for a sec, I'm really enjoying the challenges PvP is presenting me. Hoping Sacrifice is even better than we all expect it to be!

Cheers!

[Kardas]

Just noticed in the Book of Souls that the 'Use 10' option got changed to 5. Thanks for the change!

While I haven't had any MACLOs or PVTE1s in a long time, I do have an insidious new problem. There are some times where the game just feels like giving up and crashes to desktop without warning. This most often happens when I load a new level, which results in an infuriating loss of Trooper points. It usually happens if I've been playing a long time, but it can also be like the 5th battle I start.
Like, I know my phone is not the most game optimized, but this is starting to happen at a rate (5-10 crashes per day) that it's becoming quite bothersome

[ToTameAGame]

We want to incentive people to have both good attack and defense win rates, and unfortunately getting a good defensive winrate can cause people to do counter-intuitive things (such as staying low in the rankings to trick weaker people into attacking your defense). A high defense rate naturally helps you with climbing the leaderboard, which we feel is rewarding enough.

What do you consider a good defense win rate?

Assuming it is 30+ percent - how would you achieve that without "the one"?

[HomemLivre]

We want to incentive people to have both good attack and defense win rates, and unfortunately getting a good defensive winrate can cause people to do counter-intuitive things (such as staying low in the rankings to trick weaker people into attacking your defense). A high defense rate naturally helps you with climbing the leaderboard, which we feel is rewarding enough.


I understand your frustrations regarding the matchmaking, but unfortunately we're still working on identifying what is causing some people to be attacked more than others. Improving matchmaking continues to be one of my primary tasks that I'm working on, and we will push adjustments to the live game as soon as we can.

Did you understand how much MORE ironite we need to spend to stay competitive in this broken scenario, right?
Its not just frustrating, its totally unfair!
Just to update the numbers, how the hell am I supposed to run agains people who can spend the same ironite to refresh like me when I was attacked 406 times atm and they where half/less than me?
Its obvious that the players that suffer from this broken system deserves a compensation, the math is clear.

[Frost]

I figured out how to beat the Prisoner though... First thing you have to do is, you gotta really want to watch him fall. After that it's all about how quickly you can kill him. :p

I have a strategy that I let him ALIVE and kill him last. Right now this is making me win 90% regardless if I go second... It's very high risk/reward.

But I think this happens because many people read the F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris is OP and think that putting him is insta-win. How many bad F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris I fought and won laughing...

Unfortunatelly I think it's a matter of time untill people realize how to build a solid defense with F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris. If I ever get one I alread know a good one...

[mjmxiii]

I have a strategy that I let him ALIVE and kill him last. Right now this is making me win 90% regardless if I go second... It's very high risk/reward.

But I think this happens because many people read the F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris is OP and think that putting him is insta-win. How many bad F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris I fought and won laughing...

Unfortunatelly I think it's a matter of time untill people realize how to build a solid defense with F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris. If I ever get one I alread know a good one...

The Prisoner just might be Chuck underneath the mask, but he's no Bruce Lee! He can be beaten. I never pass up an opportunity to watch him fall. I have a death squad that hunts him daily. :D

I hear ya though dude, I have yellow shards, Thief and Void talismans just waiting and a few different ideas for DEF teams with my available chars. The day will come...

[Caretaker]

Well, I've done my part here. My cca 250 wins is here but 402 times attacked, I gave up this week yesterday :o going out for a beer.

[Hypnos]

I am baffled how no one has posted this PvP bug yet.

The hit boxes are so small when you have any of the Angels on your team. I was playing with two angels of different colour and rainmaker Eddie and another character. When I used Rainmaker's cleanse ability to heal rainmaker himself it's quite difficult to choose him because the hit boxes for the Angels are so large and I end up healing one of the Angels instead. This makes the hit box for any other character very small and so difficult to activate.

This has been the case since beta but only recently has it supremely affected the outcome of my battles. Please address this urgently as not only is it frustrating but it is deciding if I win or lose a battle.

[Tritium]

I am baffled how no one has posted this PvP bug yet.

The hit boxes are so small when you have any of the Angels on your team. I was playing with two angels of different colour and rainmaker Eddie and another character. When I used Rainmaker's cleanse ability to heal rainmaker himself it's quite difficult to choose him because the hit boxes for the Angels are so large and I end up healing one of the Angels instead. This makes the hit box for any other character very small and so difficult to activate.

This has been the case since beta but only recently has it supremely affected the outcome of my battles. Please address this urgently as not only is it frustrating but it is deciding if I win or lose a battle.

I know what you mean. I use AOF and AOP and have them positioned on either side of my Eddie so that they don't obstruct my ability to make perfect hits. As such, however, they make it incredibly hard to choose my Eddie since I normally attack with my characters out of order for strategic reasons. It'd be great if the devs made it so the angels' wings don't count as part of their touch box so we can actually choose the toons alongside them.

[Sparton_LOTB]

While I haven't had any MACLOs or PVTE1s in a long time, I do have an insidious new problem. There are some times where the game just feels like giving up and crashes to desktop without warning. This most often happens when I load a new level, which results in an infuriating loss of Trooper points. It usually happens if I've been playing a long time, but it can also be like the 5th battle I start.
Like, I know my phone is not the most game optimized, but this is starting to happen at a rate (5-10 crashes per day) that it's becoming quite bothersome

One of our programmers has been 100% dedicated to optimizations and stability, and there's been a lot of interlocking code he's been trying to fix and improve that should have substantial improvements. I'm not sure how much it'll help older devices, but we hope to have his improvements fixed within the next one or two app store releases.


What do you consider a good defense win rate?

As good or better than most other top players' defensive win rates, assuming you've been hit at least a hundred or so times (60% defensive win rate because your record is 3/5 just isn't as impressive). Most people seem to report around 30%, which is a good target to aim for.


Assuming it is 30+ percent - how would you achieve that without "the one"?

I've been running an oddball defense team that somehow manages a 32% win rate (93/295), and it's only running one meta pick (using my favoured Sentinel Soulless Demon, but no Mummy Eddie, no Warrior Troll, no Prisoner, no Angel of Fear, etc). Gotta think outside the box!


The hit boxes are so small when you have any of the Angels on your team. I was playing with two angels of different colour and rainmaker Eddie and another character. When I used Rainmaker's cleanse ability to heal rainmaker himself it's quite difficult to choose him because the hit boxes for the Angels are so large and I end up healing one of the Angels instead. This makes the hit box for any other character very small and so difficult to activate.

Hm... I was aware of their hitboxes being a bit wonky, but I hadn't realized how that could be a problem due to single-target skills. I'll float that by the team to see if that's an easy fix (or to at least make sure that's in our system to fix eventually).

[Silentknight]

Yep,no MACLO or PVET1 errors in 5-6 days. NICE!!! Have however been getting semi-frozen matches in arena. Toons just sit there floating around but you can't do anything=quit=loss, 2-3 per day. Using Samsung Galaxy S7.

[HomemLivre]

Dear @Sparton_LOTB, did you understand how much MORE ironite we need to spend to stay competitive in this broken scenario, right?
Its not just frustrating, its totally unfair!
Just to update the numbers, how the hell am I supposed to run agains people who can spend the same ironite to refresh like me when I was attacked 452 times atm and they where half/less than me?
Its obvious that the players that suffer from this broken system deserves a compensation, the math is clear.

[Nicko]

Dear @Sparton_LOTB, did you understand how much MORE ironite we need to spend to stay competitive in this broken scenario, right?
Its not just frustrating, its totally unfair!
Just to update the numbers, how the hell am I supposed to run agains people who can spend the same ironite to refresh like me when I was attacked 452 times atm and they where half/less than me?
Its obvious that the players that suffer from this broken system deserves a compensation, the math is clear.

Until there's a fix - which will come who-knows-when...

The only answer if you want to be competitive is to spend even MORE Ironite

I've been attacked 416 times. Not that far from you. Until we see more stats hard to label as "fair" or "unfair". And even then sample size is tiny. So the bug may not be how many times you're getting attacked - but how players like GMAC last week and Lord Schmeb this week get attacked so little. Maybe we're the norm and they're the outliers?

I anticipate GMAC and ChaosGo passing me today which is cool - We all get the same rewards in the top 5 and if they want to spend the Ironite more power to them!

They're both good players and active on the forum so I look forward to revisiting everyone's stats after the reset.

[Silentknight]

They're both good players and active on the forum so I look forward to revisiting everyone's stats after the reset.

Well you won't be getting mine...embarrassing!
273 attacks tho.

[ToTameAGame]

I've been running an oddball defense team that somehow manages a 32% win rate (93/295), and it's only running one meta pick (using my favoured Sentinel Soulless Demon, but no Mummy Eddie, no Warrior Troll, no Prisoner, no Angel of Fear, etc). Gotta think outside the box!

And I have seen you all week in the lower ranks where no Prisoners live. That is a rather strange argument tbh. Thinking outside the box works against newbies but it's not competitive.

[Nicko]

Well you won't be getting mine...embarrassing!
457 attacks tho

Both my win percentage and my Hold percentage went down this week. Many more Prisoner teams were on my list, and I changed my defense daily. I think newbies are figuring out better strategies too

[HomemLivre]

Until there's a fix - which will come who-knows-when...

Thats the point.
I dont think that being attacked like more then 450 times in a week its normal when you see some guys talking about getting attacked 250 to 300 times. Being attacked so little like Gmac or LordSchmeb looks wrong to.

The point is how much time will take to aswers, to fixes? How much more some players will have unfair advantages granted by a broken system?

[Silentknight]

Thats the point.
I dont think that being attacked like more then 450 times in a week its normal when you see some guys talking about getting attacked 250 to 300 times. Being attacked so little like Gmac or LordSchmeb looks wrong to.

The point is how much time will take to aswers, to fixes? How much more some players will have unfair advantages granted by a broken system?

Just between the 3 of us, 300-400 sounds normal.

[Silentknight]

Both my win percentage and my Hold percentage went down this week. Many more Prisoner teams were on my list, and I changed my defense daily. I think newbies are figuring out better strategies too
LMAO,guaranteed not as much as mine. I thot I'd improved my defense! J/K anyways,if it's for the good of the game ur more than welcome to my stats.

[gmac]

Until there's a fix - which will come who-knows-when...

I anticipate GMAC and ChaosGo passing me today which is cool - We all get the same rewards in the top 5 and if they want to spend the Ironite more power to them!

They're both good players and active on the forum so I look forward to revisiting everyone's stats after the reset.

You are too far out.

People will be surprised by how many Ironite I spent this week.

Nicko, your´re making a new thread for this week´s results?

best
Gmac

[Silentknight]

You are too far out.

People will be surprised by how many Ironite I spent this week.

Nicko, your´re making a new thread for this week´s results?

best
Gmac
Im not surprised. Tried that burning thru attack lists...not a fan!
Was watching u fly up the ranks tho

[gmac]

Im not surprised. Tried that burning thru attack lists...not a fan!
Was watching u fly up the ranks tho

This is where the fun is for me! I love it!

[Nicko]

You are too far out.

People will be surprised by how many Ironite I spent this week.

Nicko, your´re making a new thread for this week´s results?

best
Gmac

I'll make a week two thread after the reset, starting with my stats

[Nicko]

This is where the fun is for me! I love it!

I agree. Though I occasionally skip names if they come up too often.

There is a guy named Hold - don't know if he's on the forums - but his name is on my list non-stop. Occasionally I skip him - and I STILL end up attacking him a zillion times...

[gmac]

I agree. Though I occasionally skip names if they come up too often.

There is a guy named Hold - don't know if he's on the forums - but his name is on my list non-stop. Occasionally I skip him - and I STILL end up attacking him a zillion times...

Guys,

There is a HUGE battle for the 25th spot going on.

I will not get in the way.

EDIT: Sorry EducatedFoll, I just noticed this batlle now, I attacked you a litte back

[Silentknight]

Guys,

There is a HUGE battle for the 25th spot going on.

I will not get in the way.

EDIT: Sorry EducatedFoll, I just noticed this batlle now, I attacked you a litte back

Gave up trying to hold 10th. Yup,my $ on TheEducatedFool

[gmac]

Gave up trying to hold 10th. Yup,my $ on TheEducatedFool

Not sure he´s playing.

Hope HomemLivre makes it, he is a trooper.

As is Chaosego888, Nice run man! (is he on the forum?!)

(Should we try to help our troopers in this situation?)

[Silentknight]

Just a reminder...everyone got 2-3 open inventory spots?

[Silentknight]

Not sure he´s playing.

Probably right as he's the only one that hasn't attacked me

[gmac]

Probably right as he's the only one that hasn't attacked me

Think he is, he´s up! Their both gonna make it I think.

(you just made me real nervous about the rewards!!!) LOL

[Silentknight]

Think he is, he´s up! Their both gonna make it I think.

(you just made me real nervous about the rewards!!!) LOL

LMAO,least u know they're good for it!

[Nine]

When there was the suggestion to cut trophy losses on defense you said you don't want to do that, because one has no longer an incentive to build a good defensive team. That is something that is completely unterstandable. (Although if the matchmaking would work in a way that you only face teams around you that would take care of itself since you want to make winning for them as hard as possible. But that's not the point here).


How about you don't lose any points by being attacked but you still lose points when revenged?

Of course you shouldn't be able to win any points when attacked then neither, because otherwise people who get attacked a alot would gain more points, which makes people chose their defense in a way they get attacked more and the system collapses.

But since your defense is still valuable, because you win and lose points from it, you have the incentive to chose a decent one - I think in this regard nothing will change. The system is only slightly adjusted in way that makes your own actions count much more compared to those around you - which is a good thing for basically everyone and it even encourages spending Ironite.

My statement from some posts before that the system is flawed still stands and it wasn't meant to be just critique. If a system is so flawed nobody participates in then everybody loses.

I have to add, I am not one of the people suffering by the system at the moment. On the contrary I am nearly not being attacked at all...

[RCarter]

My defense was attacked 477 times.

Thank you RNGesus.

I guess I should feel good about the 34% success rate on D, but damn.

Here's a thought: how about taking points out of defense all together, and making it all about iron coins?

Your defense holds, you get rewarded with coins. You get beat, you don't get anything.

Players would still have incentive to field strong defenses, and wouldn't wake up in the morning and get hit by massive points losses, which in turn makes players think "why am I doing this?"

[CanyptianFit]

No prisoner, so my 471 attacks and 17% hold rate while an increase from 10% in beta is a liability.

Expect my hold rate to continue to decrease, and those with low hold rates have a lot to make up to be competitive. Just the facts. Is what it is.

[Chaosego888]

We want to incentive people to have both good attack and defense win rates, and unfortunately getting a good defensive winrate can cause people to do counter-intuitive things (such as staying low in the rankings to trick weaker people into attacking your defense). A high defense rate naturally helps you with climbing the leaderboard, which we feel is rewarding enough. So, why not just reward points for holds and eliminate the point reduction for defeats. This would keep people from being frustrated with losing what they fight for and make it easier to code as well... Most of us know, or will learn how to outsmart the A.I. so a great defense is going to be in the 23%-38% anyway.

[Chaosego888]

The Prisoner just might be Chuck underneath the mask, but he's no Bruce Lee! He can be beaten. I never pass up an opportunity to watch him fall. I have a death squad that hunts him daily. :D
Could be... I know my Wolf Cultist is just Eddie with a plastic wolf mask who likes to go out on Wednesday nights and hurl meteors at Sentinel Aliens...

[Chaosego888]

I've been running an oddball defense team that somehow manages a 32% win rate (93/295), and it's only running one meta pick (using my favoured Sentinel Soulless Demon, but no Mummy Eddie, no Warrior Troll, no Prisoner, no Angel of Fear, etc). Gotta think outside the box! Sparton, I haven't seen your defensive team in awhile but I know you are always experimenting. You have to realize those numbers change drastically once you are in the top 25 though.

[Chaosego888]

Until there's a fix - which will come who-knows-when...

The only answer if you want to be competitive is to spend even MORE Ironite

I've been attacked 416 times. Not that far from you. Until we see more stats hard to label as "fair" or "unfair". And even then sample size is tiny. So the bug may not be how many times you're getting attacked - but how players like GMAC last week and Lord Schmeb this week get attacked so little. Maybe we're the norm and they're the outliers?

I anticipate GMAC and ChaosGo passing me today which is cool - We all get the same rewards in the top 5 and if they want to spend the Ironite more power to them!

They're both good players and active on the forum so I look forward to revisiting everyone's stats after the reset.
I think we both tried like hell... just seeing what was possible. My game ran really buggy the last 3 hours. I don't know if it was a signal problem or something else. I will try to figure out how to take a screenshot and give you some numbers in that other thread once I get a chance to read it... May be a few days... I am changing Angels this week to compare those numbers as well.

[Chaosego888]

Not sure he´s playing.

Hope HomemLivre makes it, he is a trooper.

As is Chaosego888, Nice run man! (is he on the forum?!)

(Should we try to help our troopers in this situation?)Hey man, the way I look at it, troopers are like teammates. I don't check the rankings too often but if I know you are trying to make a run, I am not going to get in your way... purposely anyway... I even attacked a few players today that were challenging Canyptian and Go80sMetal for critical spots

[Nicko]

Week 2 PvP thread up - posting of stats would be appreciated!

Really interested to see how much number of times attacked varies...

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32301#post32301

[gmac]

Hey man, the way I look at it, troopers are like teammates. I don't check the rankings too often but if I know you are trying to make a run, I am not going to get in your way... purposely anyway... I even attacked a few players today that were challenging Canyptian and Go80sMetal for critical spots

Ok, now I know what protocol is (those are both my troopers too :-)

You´re fast man, could never catch you, good run today! I enjoyed it very much.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton, I haven't seen your defensive team in awhile but I know you are always experimenting. You have to realize those numbers change drastically once you are in the top 25 though.

Not (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4884-Week-1-of-PvP-The-Prisoner-Attack-Lists-and-Pay-to-Win) really. (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32301#post32301)

Obviously win rates become harder as people get to the top of the leaderboard, but even based on self-reported data we don't see that extreme of a difference (assuming you have 100+ defenses).

[Chaosego888]

Not (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4884-Week-1-of-PvP-The-Prisoner-Attack-Lists-and-Pay-to-Win) really. (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32301#post32301)

Obviously win rates become harder as people get to the top of the leaderboard, but even based on self-reported data we don't see that extreme of a difference (assuming you have 100+ defenses).I was actually speaking of defensive holds. It changes as you progess through the rankings. I noticed this last week when I didn't have much time to play. When you are in the middle, you get attacked by the hardcore players as well as the newcomers. When you stay at the bottom, you get attacked by newcomers or casual players most of the time. If a player focuses on clearing the list, they may lose 7 or 8 times in a row before getting a win and moving forward. Players at the top don't lose twice in a row too often. This skews the data a bit

[Nicko]

Sparton - please see

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32331#post32331

There are players who are attacking other players a similar amount - yet have difference of over FOUR HUNDRED in the number of attacks they receive

We've all been competing under the assumption that this has been a level playing field. That has not been the case.

Dont you think it would be fair to issue a pop-up screen that says if you wish to compete in PvP you may have to spend significantly more resources - both time and possibly financial - to get to the same place as other players - and that you can't predict at this point who will require more or less resources? At least until this is resolved.

I absolutely believe this is unintentional and you want this to be fair. But it's also a significant issue because frankly - people are paying to compete under the assumption their chances of winning prizes is based strictly on how well their team performs - and that is far from the case. Number of times attacked/losses -due to the structure of the point system - has a HUGE influence on ranking. If losses didn't cost points this would be a non issue. But at this point they are just as important as winning at attacks.

Minor variations of 50-100-maybe even 150 ok. This is a game of chance.

Four hundred? In fairness to all players - this should be made known to all competing.

Just my opinion

[Chaosego888]

Ok, now I know what protocol is (those are both my troopers too :-)

You´re fast man, could never catch you, good run today! I enjoyed it very much.Enjoyed it very much as well... The numbers I was looking at suggested you may be a little faster.... not trying to set a protocol here, just offering insight as to how I think... You know all that would go out the window if we we're battling for the top spot anyway... Thanks for the badges.

[Nicko]

It may be best to eliminate point losses for losing when you're attacked until his is resolved...

[CanyptianFit]

Saw your post. ❤.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I was actually speaking of defensive holds. It changes as you progess through the rankings. I noticed this last week when I didn't have much time to play. When you are in the middle, you get attacked by the hardcore players as well as the newcomers. When you stay at the bottom, you get attacked by newcomers or casual players most of the time. If a player focuses on clearing the list, they may lose 7 or 8 times in a row before getting a win and moving forward. Players at the top don't lose twice in a row too often. This skews the data a bit

Yeah, I've noticed that as well (as have other developers). I suppose it's debateable where "the middle" of the rankings is, but I generally feel it's just before the major point that becomes difficult to get to higher divisions (1700-2100), which is where I see I get most of my defensive attacks. Much lower than 1700 and there's so many people that attacks are much more spread out, because the matchmaking puts you against people around your rank primarily.

Think of the spread of players based on VP like a pyramid... there's much less people at the top, so they see more of the same names and get more of the attacks, but the lower in the pyramid you go, the more people there are, and the more diffuse it is.


Sparton - please see

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32331#post32331

No worries mate, I've been following your threads very closely.


There are players who are attacking other players a similar amount - yet have difference of over FOUR HUNDRED in the number of attacks they receive

I don't want to pass judgement prematurely, but there could be plenty of legitimate reasons for that. I'm personally diving into a lot of our leaderboard information to divine all these weird idiosyncrasies in the time where I'm not working on Sacrifice, and I will share whatever information I can with the community (potentially after we've made adjustments if people could exploit the system).


Dont you think it would be fair to issue a pop-up screen that says if you wish to compete in PvP you may have to spend significantly more resources - both time and possibly financial - to get to the same place as other players - and that you can't predict at this point who will require more or less resources? At least until this is resolved.

Each feature has it's own demands for time and expertise, and while it seems jarring in retrospect, the feature itself seems to make itself very clear what it demands of you if you want to climb, and how much harder it is to get the higher rewards the more you want to climb. The feature hasn't been out for two weeks and both old guard mobile players and people new to asynchronous PVP already have a pretty clear picture of the demands.


I absolutely believe this is unintentional and you want this to be fair. But it's also a significant issue because frankly - people are paying to compete under the assumption their chances of winning prizes is based strictly on how well their team performs - and that is far from the case. Number of times attacked/losses -due to the structure of the point system - has a HUGE influence on ranking. If losses didn't cost points this would be a non issue. But at this point they are just as important as winning at attacks.

Minor variations of 50-100-maybe even 150 ok. This is a game of chance.

Lets consider some hypothetical scenarios (with some somewhat simplified math, but nonetheless numbers close to what people are reporting)...

Lets assume you get attacked 50 times a day on average if you're ranked highly on the leaderboard. That creates a baseline of 350 defenses per week. If we only care about everyone is ranked highly on the leaderboard, then that's fine, and realistically that's what the vast majority of top players have reported both weeks.

But what about people lower on the leaderboard? Is it fair that the game forces them to matchmake against people that could be far out of their league (either strength or ranking) just because they haven't been "attacked enough" on a given day?

What about someone who just started playing mid-week? Maybe they avoided playing PVP for a long time, so they sit around 1000 VP (with thousands of other players who aren't competing). Should they be attacked 350 times per week, just because? Even if we spread the attacks out as evenly as possible, and the average across the entire playerbase (from the top dedicated players doing 300-800 attacks to the literal hundreds of less interested people doing less than 10 a week)... should they be attacked hundreds of times just because?

There's a lot of factors that have gone into the matchmaking, and as I've already noted (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4854-February-14th-2017-PVP-Arena-Update-Discussion&p=32192#post32192), we're definitely aware that there's room for improvement. But I don't agree that everyone being attacked as much as everyone else is a logical conclusion, because the results you're looking at is the summary at the end of the week, and a lot of the story in the middle is being left out.

But just to be crystal clear, I definitely agree that improvements can and will be made. Outliers existing at the top of the leaderboard is definitely not intended, and even though they're a minority of top players, I'm nonetheless working on ensuring the spread is more event for the people who are competing at the top.

Specifically on the impact of defenses, though...


If losses didn't cost points this would be a non issue. But at this point they are just as important as winning at attacks.

(Emphasis mine.)

As I've brought up in the past, we don't want your defense to be a non issue. Maintaining a quality attack record and defense record is something we feel is important to how we want players to approach PVP, and how you as a player approach that (either by staying low then climbing rapidly at the end of the week and/or finding defensive teams that are more likely to confound opponents) is something we want all players to consider, as many already have in various ways. Hell, take people like Gmac, who have pointed out (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4924-Week-2-of-PvP-Statistics-and-Attacks&p=32312&viewfull=1#post32312) you can creatively spend ironite to compete and get into the top divisions if competing in PVP is more important to you than spending ironite you've earned throughout the week on other features and you've shown a clear mastery for competing. That's why things like secret locations and daily challenges (and now PVP) give you so much each week!

[Chaosego888]

Saw your post. ❤.
Any time man. I looked at the rankings after I took a 2 hour nap yesterday morning and took note of where you, gmac and a couple others were. I knew you two were going to be making a run so I just skipped your names when they showed up on my list. The funny thing is there was probably 6 times that your name was on my list together with both Chillster and Basrog so I just attacked them and moved on

[Nicko]

Sparton - as always - thanks for participating in this dialogue. Always appreciated and your points are solid. Just hearing you're working on Sacrifice is great to hear ;)

I understand that different dynamics will come into play with PvP and number of attacks. And of course if someone is not participating I don't want them to get "beat up" (though is there something preventing that?)

But I'm talking about situations like this

2551

I have friends with MUCH better percentages on both offense and defense. They were not top 25. The sheer number of attacks worked against them. 37 attacks on this player! Versus over 400 on many! And this player has nothing to feel guilty about - he benefited from a bug. Pure and simple.

You have emphasized the importance of building a better defense - but in this case a single untalismaned RTTH Eddie that lost every battle would have fared better here than a well thought-out defense attacked 450 times with a very admirable 35% win percentage. That's not right.

Somewhere there is a bug. And our sample size from my thread is small. So we really don't know how many of these "outliers" are there. I'm going to stop complaining because - like I said in the other thread - the awareness is now there. It's my choice whether I participate or not - just like those complaining about the Prisoner - knowing the situation. And I still enjoy this game a lot. But I just don't believe "strategy" is leading to a discrepancy this big. Something internal is going on with the matchmaking.

[Sparton_LOTB]

And of course if someone is not participating I don't want them to get "beat up" (though is there something preventing that?)

If someone hasn't played the game in a while, we try to take them out of matchmaking, but in general the main thing that'll stop such people from being attacked is their points naturally floating to a place where there's lots more people and therefore the odds of being in someone's attack list around your ranking is low.


Somewhere there is a bug. And our sample size from my thread is small. So we really don't know how many of these "outliers" are there. I'm going to stop complaining because - like I said in the other thread - the awareness is now there. It's my choice whether I participate or not - just like those complaining about the Prisoner - knowing the situation. And I still enjoy this game a lot. But I just don't believe "strategy" is leading to a discrepancy this big. Something internal is going on with the matchmaking.

Yeah, the sample size from your threads are small, but it's gotten a surprisingly high amount of people from the top 25... and there's only 25 of those each week, so it does shine a light on a decent percentage of those top players.

But to be clear, I still agree that the matchmaking needs improvement, and I can only think of one or two "legitimate" ways someone could have a defense count that low and rank that high, which still shouldn't be that likely.

[Nine]

As I've brought up in the past, we don't want your defense to be a non issue. Maintaining a quality attack record and defense record is something we feel is important to how we want players to approach PVP, and how you as a player approach that (either by staying low then climbing rapidly at the end of the week and/or finding defensive teams that are more likely to confound opponents) is something we want all players to consider, as many already have in various ways.

Hey Sparton, thanks for keeping the communication up. I don't want to quote myself here, but since it might have eben overlooked two pages ago:


How about you don't lose any points by being attacked but you still lose points when revenged?

Of course you shouldn't be able to win any points when attacked then neither, because otherwise people who get attacked a alot would gain more points, which makes people chose their defense in a way they get attacked more and the system collapses.

But since your defense is still valuable, because you win and lose points from it, you have the incentive to chose a decent one - I think in this regard nothing will change. The system is only slightly adjusted in way that makes your own actions count much more compared to those around you - which is a good thing for basically everyone and even encourages spending Ironite.

[scott-5496]

Sparton - as always - thanks for participating in this dialogue. Always appreciated and your points are solid. Just hearing you're working on Sacrifice is great to hear ;)

I understand that different dynamics will come into play with PvP and number of attacks. And of course if someone is not participating I don't want them to get "beat up" (though is there something preventing that?)

But I'm talking about situations like this

2551

I have friends with MUCH better percentages on both offense and defense. They were not top 25. The sheer number of attacks worked against them. 37 attacks on this player! Versus over 400 on many! And this player has nothing to feel guilty about - he benefited from a bug. Pure and simple.

You have emphasized the importance of building a better defense - but in this case a single untalismaned RTTH Eddie that lost every battle would have fared better here than a well thought-out defense attacked 450 times with a very admirable 35% win percentage. That's not right.

Somewhere there is a bug. And our sample size from my thread is small. So we really don't know how many of these "outliers" are there. I'm going to stop complaining because - like I said in the other thread - the awareness is now there. It's my choice whether I participate or not - just like those complaining about the Prisoner - knowing the situation. And I still enjoy this game a lot. But I just don't believe "strategy" is leading to a discrepancy this big. Something internal is going on with the matchmaking.


Those figures are crazy and they don't seem right/fair to me either Nicko. How can you only do 193 attacks get hit only 37 times and get to 16? That is nuts - the attack and defence stats are not even that good.......the system must be a bit broken somewhere for this to happen surely - if you advertised this people would not bother playing in their droves I think?

[mjmxiii]

Yeah thanks for the communication Sparton, much appreciated. The one post from Nickos thread that gets me thinking there may be a pattern that can potentially be exploited is this one... (no disrespect to Askora as I'm not calling him or her out, just using the numbers as an example)


I'll throw mine in here, even though I'm in a little lower league.

My second week stats are:

Askora (GRE, CG, AGS, SGS)

Attack Wins: 75% (128/170)

Defense Wins: 9% (4/47)

Finishing rank was 74....


It seems like a vet player with a solid lineup could potentially mill around in the lower ranks facing weaker attack teams, less attacks in general and then hit it hard close to reset and climb rather quickly into the top 100 because of a lower number of DEF matches mixed with a high DEF win %.

While it might never work to get one into the top 25, it still seems broken and unfair to those trying so hard to climb the ranks and getting bogged down in that 1700-2100 traffic jam where everyone is attacking everyone, if this scenario is a possibility.

As I mentioned before, I do enjoy PvP and appreciate a new challenge despite the bumps we all have to work through and even though there's no plans of an Eternal run in my immediate future, I'm just wondering... Is this a possible scenario? And if it isn't, how can these numbers be explained?

Edit: I ask because it seems the less I attack and revenge DEF holds insted, the less I am attacked. Of course I could be wrong and will need this week to be sure. Just seems a bit suspect to me.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton, thanks for keeping the communication up. I don't want to quote myself here, but since it might have eben overlooked two pages ago:


How about you don't lose any points by being attacked but you still lose points when revenged?

To me, it just seems like it's arbitrarily reducing the amount of your defenses that cost you points. At that point I'd rather just reduce the amount of points you lose in general, but I'm still not sure that's the best solution to begin with, and it wouldn't solve the underlying issue of potential outliers at the top of the leaderboard with many less attacks than others (if anything they'd be attacked even less, potentially compounding the problem).


It seems like a vet player with a solid lineup could potentially mill around in the lower ranks facing weaker attack teams, less attacks in general and then hit it hard close to reset and climb rather quickly into the top 100 because of a lower number of DEF matches mixed with a high DEF win %.

While it might never work to get one into the top 25, it still seems broken and unfair to those trying so hard to climb the ranks and getting bogged down in that 1700-2100 traffic jam where everyone is attacking everyone, if this scenario is a possibility.

Possibly, but what good is milling around 1300 and being attacked very infrequently to try and climb to 2300+ in the last 24 hours compared to fighting to stay at 1900 then trying to climb to 2300+ in the last 24 hours? The former player is probably attacked way less throughout the week, but has to spend way more ironite and time to climb up in the last day (the day most relevant to getting end of week rewards), and they're probably getting way less Iron Coins in a given week (and yes a lot of top players don't care about Iron Coins right now, but maximizing income will become very relevant for most people soon).


Edit: I ask because it seems the less I attack and revenge DEF holds insted, the less I am attacked. Of course I could be wrong and will need this week to be sure. Just seems a bit suspect to me.

Well, you as a player have more control over who attacks you based on revenging than who attacks you based on matchmaking, so I would say trying to only fight people you think won't fight back/will lose when retaliating seems like an entirely legitimate strategy, as it focuses on you having a capable attack and defense team and reading the intent/capabilities of your opponent. You risk climbing slower, but it's potentially a positive trade-off.

(I do a fair bit of this myself when my defense list is reasonably populated and I don't think I can do a full 10 sand sweep of my attack list.)

[mjmxiii]

Possibly, but what good is milling around 1300 and being attacked very infrequently to try and climb to 2300+ in the last 24 hours compared to fighting to stay at 1900 then trying to climb to 2300+ in the last 24 hours?

Well, you as a player have more control over who attacks you based on revenging than who attacks you based on matchmaking, so I would say trying to only fight people you think won't fight back/will lose when retaliating seems like an entirely legitimate strategy, as it focuses on you having a capable attack and defense team and reading the intent/capabilities of your opponent. You risk climbing slower, but it's potentially a positive trade-off.

So then it is possible for this type of scenario to happen? Seems to me like it would be more ironite spent to stay in the 1900 VP range throughout the week than it would be going all-in at the end of it (it has been mentioned by others that this is more accurate). Again, how can Askoras final rank at 74 and others mentioned by Nicko be possible (playing less and climbing higher in the ranks)?

I notice it is quite difficult without consistently buying ironite to keep your head above water at 1700 VP but I have not put in the effort that others have to know for sure what would use up more ironite.

I was just reading where you stated that you guys were researching possible ways where people could abuse the system.. this seems like one potential way to bypass the players who are grinding PvP all week and again, somewhat unfair to them.

Thanks again for being so accessible as I think we all just want to keep it fun while keeping it fair and most of us forum lifers are willing to be patient and work with you guys on this thing.

Cheers

[Sparton_LOTB]

So then it is possible for this type of scenario to happen? Seems to me like it would be more ironite spent to stay in the 1900 VP range throughout the week than it would be going all-in at the end of it (it has been mentioned by others that this is more accurate). Again, how can Askoras final rank at 74 and others mentioned by Nicko be possible (playing less and climbing higher in the ranks)?

There's other things to it too. I've been trying to bottle up some changes to matchmaking to eliminate one possible way that a wonky metric is being used for matchmaking, in addition to making other changes to improve variety in attack lists and spread attacks out more evenly.


I notice it is quite difficult without consistently buying ironite to keep your head above water at 1700 VP but I have not put in the effort that others have to know for sure what would use up more ironite.

You don't get a prize for being 2300 for most of the week; you only get a prize for finishing there (and being within the top 25). You just have a natural advantage to being able to place highly the closer you are to a given division as the week comes to a close.

There's arguably more value from spending ironite later in the week, but also arguably more risk that you won't be able to catch up to the division you want the more other people try to do the same.


I was just reading where you stated that you guys were researching possible ways where people could abuse the system.. this seems like one potential way to bypass the players who are grinding PvP all week and again, somewhat unfair to them.

I would maintain that, all else being equal [which is not the case, but we're investigating that], trading more time/ironite to catch up and pass compared to those who maintain a rank throughout the week is an appropriate trade off. There will always be a pressure to finish in the top divisions relative to the amount of people who want to be there... based on how much they want to be there. In general, though, while there is movement at the top, most people at the highest divisions end at a rank not far off where they were in the middle of it (even Jofer cooled his jets for a bit then blitz towards the top mid-week to make it easier to end on top).

We naturally want to limit how much you can just throw ironite at your screen to bypass others to give more people a chance, which is generally kept in check with the general length of combat and the increased likelihood you'll be revenged. However, if someone wants the top that much more than you... then you'll be passed.


Thanks again for being so accessible as I think we all just want to keep it fun while keeping it fair and most of us forum lifers are willing to be patient and work with you guys on this thing.

For sure. As always, I'm very appreciative of how mature and constructive many of you guys are as we continue to improve and add to the game over time.

[slauki]

There's other things to it too. I've been trying to bottle up some changes to matchmaking to eliminate one possible way that a wonky metric is being used for matchmaking, in addition to making other changes to improve variety in attack lists and spread attacks out more evenly.

would you mind telling us, when we can expect some of the changes you mentioned? cannot wait for sacrifice :D

[Sparton_LOTB]

would you mind telling us, when we can expect some of the changes you mentioned? cannot wait for sacrifice :D

The next update may not have as many fixes as I'd like, but we're trying to get out some major fixes sooner rather than later, plus a bit of new stuff to get. The subsequent update having more substantial additions (potentially Sacrifice, and potentially more than that). Will give you more information as we get closer to release.

[konstifik]

I notice it is quite difficult without consistently buying ironite to keep your head above water at 1700 VP but I have not put in the effort that others have to know for sure what would use up more ironite.

I defintely don't spend ironite consistently (0-2 SoW refills per week I'd say) and I have had no troubles staying above 1700 VP. Perhaps I've just been lucky with getting less attacks than others?

[Aristo4]

I defintely don't spend ironite consistently (0-2 SoW refills per week I'd say) and I have had no troubles staying above 1700 VP. Perhaps I've just been lucky with getting less attacks than others?

Seems so...cause with no crazy def rate (like me for example) you cant really overcome the around 400 (and to others more) attacks. At best you stay without progress or usually just go down (without spending)

Nothing you can do when after 6 hours you log in and have 45 notifications...cant even see who attacked to revenge...and even if you refill to recover the 400pts lost, till you do that another 30 attacks appear. :p

[mjmxiii]

So.... I might have been right about the attack all vs revenge only approach albeit, much differently than I expected...

Mid-way through the week I have more DEF holds than I do offensive attacks... currently seems that as I'm casually running thru PvP to get the 3/3 daily done and revenging DEF holds only, I get close or into that 1700-2100 kill zone and then sit back and watch the attacks start rolling in (if only it was cash money!)... My current stats for the week read as follows:

ATK# 91% (43/47)
DEF# 33% (60/183)

It's kinda wacky lol :p I dont know if thats the way Sparton and the team intended it but I'm going to assume that it's not... Me thinks its safe to say that the matchmaking RNG needs work lol... my DEF hold % is up 10% from last week and is leaning towards my initial suspicions being somewhat accurate even though arrival to that conclusion took a left in Albuquerque:

1) a better DEF win % is possible in the lower ranks for a vet player. (Duh)

It only remains to be seen if bypassing player attacks from the higher ranks on the last day is possible and allows me to place higher than I probably should.

Edit: forgot to note that my thought that less attacks and more revenges from me would result in less attacks from others was very, VERY wrong! Has everything to do with entering that 1700 VP range.

[Shifter]

mjmxiii
So.... I might have been right about the attack all vs revenge only approach albeit, much differently than I expected...

Mid-way through the week I have more DEF holds than I do offensive attacks... currently seems that as I'm casually running thru PvP to get the 3/3 daily done and revenging DEF holds only, I get close or into that 1700-2100 kill zone and then sit back and watch the attacks start rolling in (if only it was cash money!)... My current stats for the week read as follows:

ATK# 91% (43/47)
DEF# 33% (60/183)

It's kinda wacky lol I dont know if thats the way Sparton and the team intended it but I'm going to assume that it's not... Me thinks its safe to say that the matchmaking RNG needs work lol... my DEF hold % is up 10% from last week and is leaning towards my initial suspicions being somewhat accurate even though arrival to that conclusion took a left in Albuquerque:

1) a better DEF win % is possible in the lower ranks for a vet player. (Duh)

It only remains to be seen if bypassing player attacks from the higher ranks on the last day is possible and allows me to place higher than I probably should.


pretty much my story.

I attacked 77 times, held 65 times out of 203 attacks so far. (32%).

Pretty frustrating, especially with the non-50/50 dice roll. I attacked 24 times Monday evening, went first twice.

[mjmxiii]

pretty much my story.

I attacked 77 times, held 65 times out of 203 attacks so far. (32%).

Pretty frustrating, especially with the non-50/50 dice roll. I attacked 24 times Monday evening, went first twice.

This is actually something I should have noted... of my 4 losses, in 3 of them I went second and in the one I went first I simply screwed the pooch and made the wrong move. I did not keep track of how many times I went 2nd in my wins but the coin toss seems to fall in my favor (oddly enough) most of the time.

[Enti]

Yo

I might not be the first one to post this but I'm lazy to read through 400+ comments.

Whenever Prisoner is about to transfer a received Doom to one of the opponents, the game freezes. This is pretty frustrating when the prisoner is taunted and you can't do anything to at least avoid or find a workaround to this glitch.

[Silentknight]

Yo

I might not be the first one to post this but I'm lazy to read through 400+ comments.

Whenever Prisoner is about to transfer a received Doom to one of the opponents, the game freezes. This is pretty frustrating when the prisoner is taunted and you can't do anything to at least avoid or find a workaround to this glitch.

Same with Carriage Rider's scythe,transfer negative effects. If ur doomed game freezes...well it does say doom can't be removed,lol. Happened yesterday along with 2 other end match freezes. After starting 2nd & losing to Nicko 5-6x in a row,finally won the last & APM?? error...almost smashed the phone,lmao!!! Got the victory tho...phew!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Whenever Prisoner is about to transfer a received Doom to one of the opponents, the game freezes.


Same with Carriage Rider's scythe,transfer negative effects. If ur doomed game freezes...well it does say doom can't be removed,lol.

I'll pass that along; thanks for the info.

[Frost]

I'll pass that along; thanks for the info.

What about Prisoner transfering the Chain to another toon??

I lost several games because of this.

[Tritium]

The Prisoner can also transfer negative effects to vanished toons─who are normally immune.

[Sparton_LOTB]

What about Prisoner transfering the Chain to another toon??


The Prisoner can also transfer negative effects to vanished toons─who are normally immune.

This is a known issue; we haven't been able to make a fix for this yet.

[Kutte]

can you tell us of some planned fixes/tunings and a vague release date yet?

[satani]

Well ... i got to admit, that on 2 out of 5 times, the enemy begins, it's pretty hard to win the fight.
Some doom-combos like mummy and ssd or troll and red bat are skipped by me, as i'm sure when the enemy goes first, i'm dead within the first round!

And even if i surwive or go second, it's mostly the luck of my 3 sets of invisibility talismans.

So mostly i play "only" the 10-13 fights per day to get my legendary soul and mostly only choose half attack, half revenge on defense and that's enough.

[Sparton_LOTB]

can you tell us of some planned fixes/tunings [...]

We're still working on the matchmaking bugbear, but we have a bunch of stability improvements (from improving loadtimes to reducing/eliminating small hangs in the game when it reconnects to the server).


[...] and a vague release date yet?

Fairly soon!

[Kutte]

thx for the info!

[gmac]

We're still working on the matchmaking bugbear, but we have a bunch of stability improvements (from improving loadtimes to reducing/eliminating small hangs in the game when it reconnects to the server).

Fairly soon!

Hi Sparton,

Excellent to hear you guys are working on stability/speed improvements, hope this will help people to farm faster too!

If you could be a little more specific on some expected release dates and changes lots of us would appreciate. It´s been over 3 weeks since arena went live, sacrifice should be coming by now, correct? (we are dying over here!)

So, if possible, expected release dates for some expected features.
Sacrifice
Changes in the store (arena and tropper points)
BNW

Thanks,
Gmac

[Bradata]

Hi Sparton,

Excellent to hear you guys are working on stability/speed improvements, hope this will help people to farm faster too!

If could be a little more specific on some expected release dates and changes lots of us would appreciate. It´s been over 3 weeks since arena went live, sacrifice should be coming by now, correct? (we are dying over here!)

So, if possible, expected release dates for some expected features.
Sacrifice
Changes in the store (arena and tropper points)
BNW

Thanks,
Gmac
Yeah, Sparton give the guy some answers, I bet his questions are the voice of all of us here now. I caught myself playing Candy Crush more than this game now days. I see a lot of long time players "taking a brake" only because they got tired of waiting for something new to happen in the game. If I didn't have so much ironite to spend I would've taken the brake too :)

[Sparton_LOTB]

If you could be a little more specific on some expected release dates and changes lots of us would appreciate. It´s been over 3 weeks since arena went live, sacrifice should be coming by now, correct? (we are dying over here!)

Sadly I can't share specific dates, but I can say Sacrifice is coming along quite well, and is indeed the next major feature we will be releasing (just not with the next update).

[gmac]

Yeah, Sparton give the guy some answers, I bet his questions are the voice of all of us here now. I caught myself playing Candy Crush more than this game now days. I see a lot of long time players "taking a brake" only because they got tired of waiting for something new to happen in the game. If I didn't have so much ironite to spend I would've taken the brake too :)

Thanks Bradata, and yes, It´s very sad to see long time players go.

And Sparton,

If I may add something.

I bet sacrifice is the most wanted feature of all right now, especially for people on PVP, and it´s also suppose to come prior to BNW.

So, if you can´t share dates perhaps you can bring some light on how that is going to work. That would be great.

For instance:
What can we get when we sacrifice something?
Eddies are inclined to give us Eddies?
Character lv influences? If so how. A 5 lv is a 5 lv or needs to be a "born" 5
If we sacrifice toons with skill shards, do we get those skill shards back?

Give us something to work here so we can prepare for it!!!

And pleeeeeease, don´t say "stay tuned!" LOL

All the best,
Gmac

[Bradata]

Thanks Bradata, and yes, It´s very sad to see long time players go.

And Sparton,

If I may add something.

I bet sacrifice is the most wanted feature of all right now, especially for people on PVP, and it´s also suppose to come prior to BNW.

So, if you could bring some light on how that is going to work it would be great.

For instance:
What can we get when we sacrifice something?
Eddies are inclined to give us Eddies?
Character lv influences? If so how. A 5 lv is a 5 lv or needs to be a "born" 5
If we sacrifice toons with skill shards, do we get those skill shards back?

Give us something to work here so we can prepare for it!!!

And pleeeeeease, don´t say "stay tuned!" LOL

All the best,
Gmac
I guess you were still typing when Sparton gave an answer to your question. I think he will not be able to give more specific details because the Sacrifice thingy is being developed as of now and he doesn't want to ruin the surprise :p
At least we know that will not be coming with this next update :( so back to Candy Crush for me!

[gmac]

I guess you were still typing when Sparton gave an answer to your question. I think he will not be able to give more specific details because the Sacrifice thingy is being developed as of now and he doesn't want to ruin the surprise :p
At least we know that will not be coming with this next update :( so back to Candy Crush for me!

Well, if devs could give us some insight or general guidelines it would be great, they´ve got to keep us hungry, but not starve us to death! :-)

[Tritium]

Hey Sparton, out of curiosity, are you guys working on fixing the "chest lag" that we still experience when the enemy dies right before the victory screen appears? This was introduced with the December update (I believe) and hasn't been fixed yet.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I bet sacrifice is the most wanted feature of all right now, especially for people on PVP, and it´s also suppose to come prior to BNW.

So, if you can´t share dates perhaps you can bring some light on how that is going to work. That would be great.

I don't want to go over all of the details yet (as we're still finalizing it, so the exact rules are subject to change), but pretty much anything you can think of that would indicate a character is "better" or "rarer" is a factor for getting better sacrifice rewards. The rarity of the character (but also the rarity that character is naturally earned at), the level of the character, the class, etc.


Hey Sparton, out of curiosity, are you guys working on fixing the "chest lag" that we still experience when the enemy dies right before the victory screen appears? This was introduced with the December update (I believe) and hasn't been fixed yet.

That should be fixed (or at least vastly improved) in the impending update, along with other places where the visuals of the game would freeze up for a second or two depending on your device/amount of things in your inventory.

[Tritium]

I don't want to go over all of the details yet (as we're still finalizing it, so the exact rules are subject to change), but pretty much anything you can think of that would indicate a character is "better" or "rarer" is a factor for getting better sacrifice rewards. The rarity of the character (but also the rarity that character is naturally earned at), the level of the character, the class, etc.


That should be fixed (or at least vastly improved) in the impending update, along with other places where the visuals of the game would freeze up for a second or two depending on your device/amount of things in your inventory.

Awesome! I can't wait for sacrifice and the quality of life game tweaks. Thanks for keeping us in the know!

[CanyptianFit]

Thanks for the update Sparton.

How about the "rewards". Can you expand on the potential rewards? Is it just souls I'm assuming, but they can be different colored souls? Can they be specific toons?

How about skill shards? Can we potentially choose to sacrifice a character with shards added and get the shards removed so we can place on another toon? Don't want to lose the character, just remove shards to apply elsewhere. Is that potentially in the cards?

As you've read on the boards, lot of pent up interest in this feature and the more high level insights we have the more we can prepare and keep interest up.

Thanks in advance.

[gmac]

Thanks for the update Sparton.

How about skill shards? Can we potentially choose to sacrifice a character with shards added and get the shards removed so we can place on another toon? Don't want to lose the character, just remove shards to apply elsewhere. Is that potentially in the cards?



Even if we lose the character that would also work for me, and more nerve wracking to make that decision (or not!).

Sparton, look at the interest generated in this subject, elaborate some more please! (maybe a thread to discuss/debate potential issues? I´ll leave that to you and Nicko)

And thanks for sharing!

[Bradata]

I don't want to go over all of the details yet (as we're still finalizing it, so the exact rules are subject to change), but pretty much anything you can think of that would indicate a character is "better" or "rarer" is a factor for getting better sacrifice rewards. The rarity of the character (but also the rarity that character is naturally earned at), the level of the character, the class, etc.



That should be fixed (or at least vastly improved) in the impending update, along with other places where the visuals of the game would freeze up for a second or two depending on your device/amount of things in your inventory.

I was wandering and many other players as well if there is going to be an option where you can sacrifice a stock of not that rare toons for the price of one better character. I am sure many of us have hundreds of souls in their books now that are worth nothing and would be very happy if they can unload them all for one better soul.

[Sparton_LOTB]

As you've read on the boards, lot of pent up interest in this feature and the more high level insights we have the more we can prepare and keep interest up.


Sparton, look at the interest generated in this subject, elaborate some more please! (maybe a thread to discuss/debate potential issues? I´ll leave that to you and Nicko)

I'll discuss with the team how much and how soon we want to share more information on the feature, especially while it's still under development and undergoing adjustments.

[compurocker]

Even if we lose the character that would also work for me, and more nerve wracking to make that decision (or not!).

This is exactly what I was thinking. I think you should lose the toon, and it should probably be expensive to do as well.

That said, I was more interested in the idea before I had a bunch of fully sharded toons. It really hasn't taken that long, between trooper badges and iron coins, to fully shard all my main offense and defense toons, with the exception of Eddies.

Though with THAT said, the next nerf bat or other adjustment, new toons, or newly discoverd hidden gem toons or new strategies, I may again want an easy way to move shards from a benched toon.

[Sag7272]

How about skill shards? Can we potentially choose to sacrifice a character with shards added and get the shards removed so we can place on another toon?


Omg, all our early game mistake could finally get more useful than just for regrets...
I'd throw my WcotD in the fire right away to get back all his shards loll

[Sparton_LOTB]

Omg, all our early game mistake could finally get more useful than just for regrets...
I'd throw my WcotD in the fire right away to get back all his shards loll

Well, be careful, because while a natural 5 star with skill shards will be worth a crazy amount of value, the character is permanently deleted when you sacrifice them, and there might be future features/changes in the PVP meta where that character might be useful.

That said, I have three Warrior Child of the Damneds, so I know what I'm doing with two of them...

[Silentknight]

Well, be careful, because while a natural 5 star with skill shards will be worth a crazy amount of value, the character is permanently deleted when you sacrifice them, and there might be future features/changes in the PVP meta where that character might be useful.

That said, I have three Warrior Child of the Damneds, so I know what I'm doing with two of them...
How about freeze talismans...can we sacrifice them too. J/K!!!

[Silentknight]

I'm working on a set of Stone Talismans (ward). Supposed to increase defence by 1% of HP. Yet I see no increase in defence stat?

[gmac]

Well, be careful, because while a natural 5 star with skill shards will be worth a crazy amount of value, the character is permanently deleted when you sacrifice them, and there might be future features/changes in the PVP meta where that character might be useful.

That said, I have three Warrior Child of the Damneds, so I know what I'm doing with two of them...

Hi Sparton,

What if that toon is natural 3 star but is now a lv 5 maxed. How that compares to natural 5 maxed?

And how about if a toon is at level 5, but is in lv 1 and not lv 100, would that make any difference?

I can´t wait for sacrifice... LOL

Thanks for interacting with us.

Cheers
Gmac

Edit: Just saw the update notification happening later today, can we expect sacrifice for the following update? (yeah, I´m that excited for sacrifice!)

[Silentknight]

Think my freeze talismans comment scared him away,lol!
Hey Gmac!

[Sparton_LOTB]

What if that toon is natural 3 star but is now a lv 5 maxed. How that compares to natural 5 maxed?

And how about if a toon is at level 5, but is in lv 1 and not lv 100, would that make any difference?

We will reveal more about this at a later date.


Edit: Just saw the update notification happening later today, can we expect sacrifice for the following update? (yeah, I´m that excited for sacrifice!)

That's not this upcoming update, no. We got some other cool stuff cooked up though.

[R1ck]

Hopefully a nerf for GRE which slash is too powerful, and for Mummy who taunts even more than a fully sharded SSD.

[Piece of Mind]

Well, be careful, because while a natural 5 star with skill shards will be worth a crazy amount of value, the character is permanently deleted when you sacrifice them, and there might be future features/changes in the PVP meta where that character might be useful.

That said, I have three Warrior Child of the Damneds, so I know what I'm doing with two of them...

If anything the Warrior CotD is in desperate need of an upgrade, considering the comments on it here, the lackluster power move, and the fact that it's outclassed by the Assassin...

[gmac]

Think my freeze talismans comment scared him away,lol!
Hey Gmac!

Hey man!

That´s actually not a bad idea. Sacrifice talisman for... souls of that talisman color? Skill shard even maybe?

I hope sacrifice comes on the next update, hopefully this month!

[Nicko]

If anything the Warrior CotD is in desperate need of an upgrade, considering the comments on it here, the lackluster power move, and the fact that it's outclassed by the Assassin...

Considering the Assassin is more rare the Warrior should be outclassed by him...

[Sidney]

We will reveal more about this at a later date.



That's not this upcoming update, no. We got some other cool stuff cooked up though.

Is it new toons for St. Patrick's Day?

Possessed shillelagh? Corrupt clover of death? Axis Leprechaun assassin? Corned beef and slash? or Drunken Stupor Eddie?

Actually it should be Corned Beef and Savage!

This could be a good one!!! :D

[Silentknight]

Souls sure not dropping in Underworld. 0 for 50 yesterday. Missed finishing daily achievements for 1st time yesterday. Only got 3 today??? Guess it's LoL time

[Silentknight]

Have fun guys! Off to work,Friday for me!!! Yah Hoo!!!
Cya in the arena!

[Sag7272]

Well, be careful, because while a natural 5 star with skill shards will be worth a crazy amount of value, the character is permanently deleted when you sacrifice them, and there might be future features/changes in the PVP meta where that character might be useful.
That said, I have three Warrior Child of the Damneds, so I know what I'm doing with two of them...
True... But as many said, for now his shard pile worth more than him hope he got nerfed the good way, he doesn't have to be a monster but for now as a 5*.. Who knows we'll see how sacrifice work first, tanks for the input Sparton can't wait for that update :)

[Caretaker]

Got the second of those today out of regular rare soul. Will be put to use - delete :)

[Nine]

Could you have a look at Navigat Eddie's Scourge ability? The actual percentage seems way below the stated 35% and it certainly does not profit from raising accuracy. Dead Reckoning doesn't seem to be affected by Accuracy either.
By the way: the tool tip for Increased Accuracy seems to wrong. It says 25% while the older Sentinel Bomber Boy's Fortune discription says 35%.

It would also be highly appreciated if you could adjust the AI of the Navigator. Most notably is that he uses Charted Course a lot right now. And a lot means twice in a row most of the time, even when at full health. That is basically wasting a turn. Crashing Rock and Scourge are never used and Roaring Wave is used at the worst opportunities. If Scourge and Crashing Rock can't be worked in it might be more convenient if he stuck to Landfall, uses Dead Reckoning when there is available power and heals himself when necessary.

[druid138]

Happy one-year Anniversary Arena! We've come a long way, but it still feels like it was yesterday.