February 14th 2017 PVP Arena Update Discussion

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss general changes from the recent update.

You can see the details of the update that has just gone live in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4853).

[slauki]

good news so far, let's hope that everything will go smooth...

did you manage to fix the daily rewards crashing issue? couldn't find anything in the uodate notes.

looking forward to full pvp :-)

can you please explain how this will work exactly:

"The scoring for matches has been refined to better reflect the risk/reward for fighting against players with substantially more/less VP than you"

[Aristo4]

Please don't tell me you're introducing new daily rewards and achievements without fixing things for us who cant claim ANYTHING for a month now........

[Hypnos]

awesome guys, looking forward to this update going live

[Sparton_LOTB]

did you manage to fix the daily rewards crashing issue? couldn't find anything in the uodate notes.


Please don't tell me you're introducing new daily rewards and achievements without fixing things for us who cant claim ANYTHING for a month now........

We're still investigating the cause of this bug, unfortunately.

Now that PVP is (nearly) out the door, so long as nothing else critical pops up, this is one of our highest priority bugs to track down and fix.


can you please explain how this will work exactly:

"The scoring for matches has been refined to better reflect the risk/reward for fighting against players with substantially more/less VP than you"

The scoring system that was in there had so many weird quirks and issues when it was calculating points based on the difference of your VP and the opponents VP (causing things like losing below average points when losing against someone far below you in rank) that I just rewrote that part to be much simpler. It's a linear equation, but it has the same 16 points base/20 points max/12 points min that was in the last round of PVP Beta values.

Basically, if you're winning against someone higher than you, you're still getting more points, if you lose against someone higher than you, you'll lose less points, etc.

[treeb0mbb]

Awwwww yeeaaaaaaa

Can't wait to test out PVP as I haven't had the chance. :cool: :cool:

[Shifter]

Yes, I get to pvp now! :)

[BillLion]

Eager to dive in.

Have you fixed the issue that causes Tailgunner, GR Eddie, etc. to damage themselves?

[Kaz_LOTB]

Eager to dive in.

Have you fixed the issue that causes Tailgunner, GR Eddie, etc. to damage themselves?

Yes, this issue has been resolved. Let us know if you find any cases where it still occurs.

-Kaz

[Lord Schmeb]

Please don't tell me you're introducing new daily rewards and achievements without fixing things for us who cant claim ANYTHING for a month now........

Haha, ya right...

I swear, Nodding Frog HAS to be secretly run by the U.S. Government, for only they are equal to this kind of bullshit.

"Oh, the welfare program isn't working? People are scamming it, or are finding it is easier than getting a job? Let's just fund it a liiiiiitle bit more; that will fix it, I'm sure."

If something's broken, just pretend it's not there and add to it. Hoorah!

[Rygone]

Yeah, really nice work now the game refuse to start on my tablet (ASUS ZenPad S 8.0 Z580C), it's amazing how everytime they try to fix something everything turn to sh!t, is this game made by monkeys ? :mad:

[RCarter]

So renting three troopers now awards Sands of War, and fighting three arena battles awards regular sands of time?

Seems a little backasswards to me...

[Hypnos]

Will us suffering from the achievement bug be awarded any compensation when a fix is introduced? Or is all that ironite (15 earned each day) never to be seen again?

Oh and rainmaker eddie's fervor skill is still not working properly. The damage charge isn't being applied when it triggers ie. when "damage charged" pops up. The icon displays for a fraction of a second then disappears. This hasn't changed from the last update. Disappointing!

[PsychoEddie]

It crashes instantly. This sucks. I took a month off of playing it because it wouldn't work on my phone due to it consuming as much possible memory space. I decided to give LOTB a shot again a couple of weeks ago with an ASUS Zenpad S 8. I even spent $20 on LOTB this week and now, as of tonight the game can't even make it past the one second mark, not even to the Nodding Frog logo.

My plan WAS to put in another $20 today but now I can only play LOTB on a very cheap tablet where the game stutters so I'm not paying at this time.

Please do some testing on common androids or you'll keep missing out on money. I budget myself $300 month for gaming software and related online purchases but if I can't even play LOTB on my preferred tablets then there's not much point burning money up. People who do make a lot of money and manage it well tend to think carefully about purchases.

I am getting one of these tablets soon and I sure hope LOTB will be working on this device because you WILL want people who can afford to invest in lots of toys like this

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/tablet/

https://images.nvidia.com/shieldwebsite/tablet-k1/new-shield-tablet-k1-controller-update.jpg

[HomemLivre]

WOW! You guys simply removed 1/3 damage from assassin troll? Wtf?
It feels like all the nerfs in CG addad up!

And a shame to the forgotten Visions Eddie and his Equillibrium skill... looks like it will never be fixed...

[Sparton_LOTB]

Yeah, really nice work now the game refuse to start on my tablet (ASUS ZenPad S 8.0 Z580C),

I've pass that along to the team to investigate.


Will us suffering from the achievement bug be awarded any compensation when a fix is introduced? Or is all that ironite (15 earned each day) never to be seen again?

I can't confirm the exact compensation (I don't pull the trigger on that call), but we're keeping track of how long people are affected to ensure we can right that wrong based on how long people were affected (and thus how many instances of rewards they're missing out on).


Oh and rainmaker eddie's fervor skill is still not working properly. The damage charge isn't being applied when it triggers ie. when "damage charged" pops up. The icon displays for a fraction of a second then disappears. This hasn't changed from the last update. Disappointing!

Yeah, this is a known issue that technically makes him a bit stronger than intended (at least sort of; there's utility to wanting the charge for a different skill on the Eddie at least). It's on the list of bugs we want to sort out, but I don't have a timeline for that.

[PsychoEddie]

Yeah, really nice work now the game refuse to start on my tablet (ASUS ZenPad S 8.0 Z580C), it's amazing how everytime they try to fix something everything turn to sh!t, is this game made by monkeys ? :mad:

As I mentioned above, it's the same with me. I love having this same zenpad, it's awesome. I'm off to go play Asphalt 8 on it....it sucks LOTB will only work on my crappiest tablet right now, so I'll auto-battle in LOTB in between Asphalt races. :mad:

[Shifter]

PsychoEddie
Quote Originally Posted by Rygone View Post
Yeah, really nice work now the game refuse to start on my tablet (ASUS ZenPad S 8.0 Z580C), it's amazing how every time they try to fix something everything turn to sh!t, is this game made by monkeys ?
As I mentioned above, it's the same with me. I love having this same zenpad, it's awesome. I'm off to go play Asphalt 8 on it....it sucks LOTB will only work on my crappiest tablet right now, so I'll auto-battle in LOTB in between Asphalt races.

I thought I was getting this error too. It was just a dark screen and I tried to load it up a several times. But the last time I hit the back button and the start screen started. Pheww, what a relief for me.

not sure if you guys tried that but I thought it was at least mentioning and maybe, just maybe if you hold your tounge just right it will start up for you guys.

Good luck.

[slauki]

hmm expanding the biggest rewards is probably a good thing (even 5 skillshards seems too much, sorry guys), but it would have been great if you have also expanded the middle-good rewards. the skillshard and the gunner soul is still only available for the top 25 ranks. maybe top 50 would be appropriate, since there are more players now.

another thing: i got attacked 23 times in 2,5 hours. this could lead to a huge problems with the current point system, maybe cuttung the losses also players with more than 1700 points would be good too, since this huge amounts of attacks could eat up our progress... but time will tell.

EDIT: @shifter: yeah, there seem to be a blackscreen for me too, but when i close it the game runs normal.

EDIT 2: it would be very nice if we could buy a rare gunner/assassin soul in the pvp shop once a week too, cannot see a reason why they are excluded :-)

[calizario]

EDIT 2: it would be very nice if we could buy a rare gunner/assassin soul in the pvp shop once a week too, cannot see a reason why they are excluded :-)

I agree 10000%

[RCarter]

Finally got to try PVP, and made it to #11.

Now I can't claim my achievements.

Sweet!

Feeling the love on Valentine's Day...

Seriously guys, WTF?

[mjmxiii]

Blackscreen keeps popping up when starting the game for me too.. seems like an ad that is having trouble displaying its image. Hit the back button and the game screen appears. Game seems to be running smoothly and looks cleaner than before on my S7 but still testing char bugs and talisman proc and was just wondering, how far away is the Sacrifice feature now that PvP is live?

[Nicko]

Finally got to try PVP, and made it to #11.

Now I can't claim my achievements.

Sweet!

Feeling the love on Valentine's Day...

Seriously guys, WTF?

I can't claim my achievements either. A big fat Skillshard is being dangled right in front of me but I can't claim it :p

[Ubajoa]

EDIT 2: it would be very nice if we could buy a rare gunner/assassin soul in the pvp shop once a week too, cannot see a reason why they are excluded :-)

I fully agree with this, I don't see any reason for the gunner/assassin souls being excluded from the pvp store. You can put it there at a higher price, but please let us buy those souls at the pvp store.

[Frost]

... Maybe I'll start playing with luck to try to get one... Might take years because RNGesus hates me.

[Caretaker]

I can't claim my achievements either. A big fat Skillshard is being dangled right in front of me but I can't claim it :p

You'll get 5, don't worry :cool: now go! Have some fun!

[MetalWarrior]

Really appreciate this quick bug fix release,just wanted to let you know,I've tested again with several different emulators, those weren't working since Feb 2nd update,are now working again.including samsung galaxy tab tablet.

..and, i know many other geeks who are relying on emulators would attest to that.

[mikmar]

Can't claim my achievement too ! The game shows the wait icon and never come out from this wait screen

[Browno]

Oh boy im bad at pvp :p
Worthless defence that everyone beats and bad offense too. Need more shards for toons i guess.

[konstifik]

I can't claim achievements either (specifically the award for playing 10 arena matches in my case). I claim it, but I don't get any ironite, the total achievments completed counter doesn't go up and when I try to go back to the main screen it gets stuck with an empty background and a spinning loading wheel. After force-quitting the game the achievement is still there to be claimed.

Daily challenges still works though.

[konstifik]

Never got an answer to my question in the preliminary thread so I'm reposting it here:

The skill tuning table says increased SP scaling on The Nomads Mirage skill. This skill does random damage and the skill description doesn't mention scaling with SP. Is all random damage scaled with SP? The in-game help says random damage is calculated from ATK and MAG.

Quoted from the in-game help on damage types:
"Some characters deal Random Damage which randomly picks from one of the above types [physical, magical, true], but any damage dealt will scale off both ATK and MAGIC."

[Kardas]

First off, congratulations to the team for finally getting PVP out. The added News function is a pretty nice idea too.

What does bug me is that PVP battles have been added to the daily rewards. Not everyone will go for PVP (I wasn't planning on it), and that daily rewards thing forces people to play even if they'd rather not. I'd be happier if PVP remained strictly optional, like it was during the beta.

I also find it a bit strange that you've officially rolled out PVP, but I'm not seeing any fix for The Prisoner. Unless the Passives fix is related to him.

[ToTameAGame]

Oh joy - MACL0 is back as well. Is it just me or does anyone else find it pathetic that this bug is still there and never has been solved?

[ShadowedLies]

Oh joy - MACL0 is back as well. Is it just me or does anyone else find it pathetic that this bug is still there and never has been solved?

Just happened to me as well!


As far as PvP goes so far I have learned that I am garbage at it, and that just looking at the arena screen throws you into the fray right away. Yet another thing to figure out I suppose!

[MoonShadow]

I am glad that the game is finally working on emulators, so I can play some games at the pc.

Also, it's a good thing that PvP is open, even if I didn't have the will to participate. But...... this morning I saw that several people had attacked me, even if I had only my CR Eddie as defense (and he even held alone one attack..:), so I had to revenge those attacks, right? Well, I don't have a competitive team yet, but it still managed to kick some defenses. Need more improvements.

Glad to see that the freeze talis had effects on two opponents.

All in all, congrats to the devs!

[Dave-9385]

Yes, this issue has been resolved. Let us know if you find any cases where it still occurs.

-Kaz

My Allied General nearly killed himself after attacking the boss in LoL X

[Browno]

I cant clear achievements now. Thats a new one for me at least.

[Kutte]

I like it so far.
i only encountered one bug in PvP where Defense refused to die for 3 rounds (0 HP, not a single visible Effekt or passive on defense toons).
Then i was able to kill them in the 4rd round.

But please try to make a hotfix for the archievements.

[Dave-9385]

I'm having trouble getting into battle in the Arena.

All the buttons work except for the battle button. Eventually I get bored of trying to get in and go back to campaign. When I get to the player select screen, I'm greeted with the arena player select and I can go into battle for 5 Sands of War.

Also, do the win streaks reset at any point other than if you lose?

And how come I dropped from #50ish to #1750ish overnight. Is it because other players have out ranked me or am I getting battled while I'm offline?

And what the hell is an APMA3 error?

And now APMA2. Straight after that, I was transported to AK Lvl1 only to get a MACL0 after finishing the level.

This game is now seriously bugged.

[Kamuz24z]

The game is running smooth for me no issues and just waiting for the prisioner and troll to be nerf those 2 are OP in the arena

[RCarter]

APMA2 error last night, and APMA6 error this morning.

Both in PVP.

***That's two APMA6 errors this morning...

[konstifik]

Also, do the win streaks reset at any point other than if you lose?

And how come I dropped from #50ish to #1750ish overnight. Is it because other players have out ranked me or am I getting battled while I'm offline?


Win streaks bonuses reset when you loose as an attacker and when the attacking list is reseted (either manually by you or auto-reseted after 3 hours).

Dropping in rank is probably a combination of you being attacked and beaten which will make you lose victory points and other players gaining victory points to pass you in rank.

[BillLion]

I have some more feedback I'll share in a bit, but wanted to report an issue.

When I try to claim some of the PVP rewards, I can do so but then when I attempt to exit, I am stuck in buffering with Storm Eddie in the clouds and pinwheel Eddie spinning round and round. I force quite, go back in and the same cycle continues. I've checked my wifi connection, phone efficieny, etc. -all looks fine.

Specifically this currently happening on the Competitor 1 and tier up the rankings 1 achievements.

[konstifik]

I have some more feedback I'll share in a bit, but wanted to report an issue.

When I try to claim some of the PVP rewards, I can do so but then when I attempt to exit, I am stuck in buffering with Storm Eddie in the clouds and pinwheel Eddie spinning round and round. I force quite, go back in and the same cycle continues. I've checked my wifi connection, phone efficieny, etc. -all looks fine.

Specifically this currently happening on the Competitor 1 and tier up the rankings 1 achievements.

This seems to be an issue for everyone. Lots of people have reported it, and so far I haven't seen anyone saying they can actually claim those achievements (or achievements at all?).

[scott-5496]

I have some more feedback I'll share in a bit, but wanted to report an issue.

When I try to claim some of the PVP rewards, I can do so but then when I attempt to exit, I am stuck in buffering with Storm Eddie in the clouds and pinwheel Eddie spinning round and round. I force quite, go back in and the same cycle continues. I've checked my wifi connection, phone efficieny, etc. -all looks fine.

Specifically this currently happening on the Competitor 1 and tier up the rankings 1 achievements.

Join the club mate. Been like this since the early Feb update for me and a few others on here.

[calizario]

And again, I believe that it is already the 3rd update and nothing solves the problem of "MACLO", not counting the crash of archivements. Launching the PvP for the whole community was excellent, they all deserved it. But it should have a better dedication of the developers in the corrections of the problems presented in the game.
It's been a long time since I've been bored, even though I'm part of the PvP beta that I had a little fun, but the game itself is boring. A very limited game, quick to finish in the campaign and that we do not see thing new a long time at the level of campaign. Each update of characters loses skills or power, others win and when they win is an absurd thing that has to be reviewed in upcoming updates.

Today the game is worse than casino, rare items and characters are with a very low rate of drop rate, just to get an idea, I've been playing this since the end of June, I've never seen red lights on JokeOfSoul opening gunner souls / Assassin (main soul), that opened several of them and Legendary Soul the same thing .. I never won a 5 * character. I believe that this type of situation many are going through.

On the other hand, the store is running, running 100%. Buy, buy, buy more, and players who spend money, are not having an acceptable return. Every update or turn of the week has a new pack to buy, I see that this is more important to the developers than fixing the bugs and crash that is happening in the game.

I do not know what is missing for the developers, if it is human material, patience, funds .. But certainly lacking tests and more tests before launching a new update.

I know, it may be a crazy idea, but it's time for developers to think about inviting a group of constant players to test the updates before they are officially released.

[konstifik]

Ha, they've included Wrath in the PvP promo video that was recently posted on the Iron Maiden and LOTB FB-pages, making it look like a playable character.

[BillLion]

I'm just wondering if the auto is suppose to play for me, once I revenge someone. Because just recently i lost a match and almost another without getting a single play manually. Congrats developers for making yet another f up.

I think you need to study PVP a bit more -and build defenses agains crowd control teams. It's fun but there is a learning curve to PVP.

[BillLion]

First of all, congrats on getting worldwide PVP rolled out -that is a great achievement for the game and a benchmark worth celebrating! That said, there are some challenges, opportunities for improvement, as well as some other new things to like.

Challenge and Achievement Changes

There’s a new “Fight Arena Battles” daily challenge (which rewards you Sands of Time)
The reward for the existing “Use troopers” challenge is changing (now gives Sands of War for the Arena feature)
New PVP achievements have been added (Complete a certain amount of arena battles, reach certain divisions)


I like the SOW for a daily reward
I already reported (and hadn't read others reports first that we cannot claim these) new achievement awards



PVP Changes from Beta

To account for a larger pool of competitors, the higher divisions give higher quantities of rewards (with 1 Legendary Soul, 3 Rare Gun/Assassin Souls, 5 Skill Shards, and 350 Ironite for the Eternal division)
The scoring for matches has been refined to better reflect the risk/reward for fighting against players with substantially more/less VP than you


It's great that you've added skill shards for the top PVP prize winner, but the rest don't cut it to keep players engaged long term. Honestly, when I saw the PVP beta awards I thought they were good because there were no exclusives we had access to that nobody else could get. It made sense and was fair. But with worldwide release it makes no sense (UNLESS, this is a trial week to get everyone acclimated and the real prizes start next cycle). In the current setup, ONE person who spends the most time and ironite gets the grand prize (along with the other trimmings) of a legendary soul. "Oh boy, this could be the Cyborg Eddie I've been waiting for...OR it could be my 9th sentinel allied bomber boy." Once that happens, players are no longer motivated to grind. Seriously, it's lame.

To make PVP attractive enough for people to spend time and money on this after the thrill of new wears off you need EXCLUSIVE and ELUSIVE characters. Here is what a monthly cycle could/should look like:


Week #1 Top Prize -Navigator Eddie (or other new character) -top 100-250 players receive this (with different trimmings to different ranks/tiers). Not ONE person! :)
Week #2 Top Prize -Axis Commander
Week #3 Top prize -Navigator Eddie
Week #4 Top Prize -Cyborg Eddie (watch people spend for this!)


And just change this cycle every month with a new character or 2 and a couple existing characters.

This allows a new character to be introduced every month and a means to get it as well as to get old characters where RNG keeps disappointing us. And if we already have these characters? That's part of my next point.

The shop needs lots of love well beyond Valentine's Day! Some people will not compete for the top ranks, but will want to engage and may end up somewhere in the middle. After a few weeks they'll have more iron coins than they can spend. Once they determine there is little more room to climb without grinding or spending they'll back off since all the goodies are locked up even though they have $ to burn. A couple things:


Make exclusive characters available with enough iron coins -Wasn't the Trooper supposed to be here?
Take the locks of the shop items! Honestly, what is the point? Let people burn through them if they want. Even if you feel you had to lock the legendary souls, and God forbid the skill shards, why not leave the class rare souls available with RNG as bad as it is? Keep me wanting to grind!
Add gunner/assassin rare souls as others have said


On a positive note -I like that you get 2 SOW for clearing a list on PVP

Bug Fixes

Fixed an issue where the game would not launch on certain Android devices
Fixed an issue where players competing in the Arena may not get their weekly reward after reset
Fixed an issue that caused the game to freeze up for a period of time on the front end when loading the game
Fixed an issue where talisman sets which apply status effects to enemies would only apply to at most 1 enemy, even when the attack damages multiple enemies
Fixed an issue where status effects would start stacking when they shouldn’t if you had multiple Eddies brought into one battle
Fixed an issue where characters could damage or apply status effects to themselves with skills that should be doing those things to enemies
Fixed an issue where selling in the inventory could cause the game to hang
Fixed an issue where swapping talismans wouldn’t work if the player had too many talismans in their talisman inventory


Looks like Tailgunner Eddie doesn't shoot himself anymore -thanks!
Have talisman proc rates been fixed? Freeze still seems to only apply to some characters on an AOE attack still

I'm going to breathe and come back later to talk Pharaoh Eddie...

[Caretaker]

Good morning western hemisphere, I just got back from work. Let's play. And I'm wondering how long it will took the crowd to see what's really happening and how log can love matchmaking suffer. I give people like 4 days to get used to it, I know it took me 4. My def rate is through the roof now :)

I would like to adress people to my post http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4833-Your-thoughts-on-how-the-attack-lists-should-look-like

[gmac]

I have some more feedback I'll share in a bit, but wanted to report an issue.

When I try to claim some of the PVP rewards, I can do so but then when I attempt to exit, I am stuck in buffering with Storm Eddie in the clouds and pinwheel Eddie spinning round and round. I force quite, go back in and the same cycle continues. I've checked my wifi connection, phone efficieny, etc. -all looks fine.

Specifically this currently happening on the Competitor 1 and tier up the rankings 1 achievements.

Same here, can´t claim anything from the achievements. Started after I claimed the skill shard from tier up the rankings I. By the way, that skill shard did not work when I used it.

[konstifik]

Have talisman proc rates been fixed? Freeze still seems to only apply to some characters on an AOE attack still


To me it looks like they proc a little more than they should actually. 12 % is about 1 in 8, so AoE attacks with one freeze set should on average freeze one enemy every second turn against four enemies. Haven't kept track but it feels like it is happening slightly more often than that. I did manage to freeze all four enemies with one attack (with a character with a single freeze set), which is a 1 in 4823 chance.

[zdm-1083]

Hi,

First thanks to add back Arena as main feature!

Then I got some remarks:
1) Looking at attack list, when checking opponent team in Battle screen, going back to attack list put list at top level.
I would think that in last Beta Arena, going back make the list stay around the player just checked.

2) Could you do something to make sure that everyone playing has a defensive team?
There I got people in my defensive list that have only one Eddy as team...
I would say that I don't care because it is free point but for the user experience of newcomer in Arena I don't think it will be the same.

3) Could it be possible to see current points of player in Defensive List?

[BillLion]

I was just able to claim the 2 PVP achievement rewards I had not been. Not sure if devs corrected, but here are 2 things I did different this time.

1. I claimed all my daily awards first
2. I pressed Go next to the next achievement after claiming my award

Hope this helps someone.

Other things I noticed that are good:
1. Changing the app icon -small but good change. A new loading screen would be a nice cosmetic touch too.
2. Changing the "open 10" to "open 5" character option on the book of souls. Makes sense given the daily achievement award.

[Patrice-1201]

I was just able to claim the 2 PVP achievement rewards I had not been. Not sure if devs corrected, but here are 2 things I did different this time.

1. I claimed all my daily awards first
2. I pressed Go next to the next achievement after claiming my award

Hope this helps someone.

Other things I noticed that are good:
1. Changing the app icon -small but good change. A new loading screen would be a nice cosmetic touch too.
2. Changing the "open 10" to "open 5" character option on the book of souls. Makes sense given the daily achievement award.

It worked for me this morning as well but does not work for achievements claimed after claiming my Daily Rewards...

[konstifik]

I was just able to claim the 2 PVP achievement rewards I had not been. Not sure if devs corrected, but here are 2 things I did different this time.

1. I claimed all my daily awards first
2. I pressed Go next to the next achievement after claiming my award

Hope this helps someone.

I replicated this and still got stuck on the loading screen after pressing Go. Tried two times with the same result.

[gmac]

I replicated this and still got stuck on the loading screen after pressing Go. Tried two times with the same result.

Me too, no luck here. Tried in my tablet too, also happening there.

[Heavy1974]

Didn`t work for me either. So, please devs-eliminate that damned Achievement bug...

Like this arena thing btw, something fresh and new.

[Kamuz24z]

Just one issue after claiming rewards the game just started buffering or just getting in the challenge rewards section when getting out of it start buffering as well

[Heavy1974]

Game hangs up and loops when leaving the achievement screen and does not save the claim itself (which for the process itself has
no looping)

[Caretaker]

I was just able to claim the 2 PVP achievement rewards I had not been. Not sure if devs corrected, but here are 2 things I did different this time.

1. I claimed all my daily awards first
2. I pressed Go next to the next achievement after claiming my award

Hope this helps someone.

Other things I noticed that are good:
1. Changing the app icon -small but good change. A new loading screen would be a nice cosmetic touch too.
2. Changing the "open 10" to "open 5" character option on the book of souls. Makes sense given the daily achievement award.

I just got those achievements. Been stuck too. As I'm sure many of us did, but are just unwilling to share in order to gain some advantage.

So I did a few fights, went to achievements and press go on something old, for me it was 100 5* chars. When it worked and got me to my team I went back to achievements and claimed that has a continuing, tier up. And then waited for a minute for server to resolve it. Then pressed GO, again on tier up. It took me to arena. I went back and repeted my claim, wait, go cycle. I was afraid for last one, that has no go after, but it claimed and I was able to go back after a wait for a minute.

Edit: I haven't done all daily things

Try and feedback.

[Caretaker]

And this week I'm not saying sorry for attacking. For I have warned for that name based matchmaking for so long. If you get attacked too much by the same person, take it up to 3 guys who won't listen and are called support. I'm just sick right now but I'll learn to live with beeing a prick.

[Bradata]

I can't revenge any one who attacks me, doesn't matter who. Most of the attacks come from people I never attacked.

[zdm-1083]

I can't revenge any one who attacks me, doesn't matter who. Most of the attacks come from people I never attacked.

What do you mean? You have a greyed button with "revenge impossible" or equivalent? (sorry I'm playing with game in french)

Ah another remark linked to my previous:

1) Looking at attack list, when checking opponent team in Battle screen, going back to attack list put list at top level.
I would think that in last Beta Arena, going back make the list stay around the player just checked.

It is also true for ranking list: in last beta arena update when displaying ranking list pointed to player's actual rank.
This is not the case anymore.

[Caretaker]

Did you overdidit? it's 20 rev per day

[Bradata]

Did you overdidit? it's 20 rev per day

I am not sure. Was it 20 revenges all together per day or per person? I'm lost in these new rules! :(

[Caretaker]

I am not sure. Was it 20 revenges all together per day or per person? I'm lost in these new rules! :(

20/day, 2/head

[BillLion]

20/day, 2/head

I know about the limit on 2 revenges per person, but where did you see the 20 total revenge limit?

[Bradata]

I know about the limit on 2 revenges per person, but where did you see the 20 total revenge limit?

I can't remember seeing it either.

[Kaz_LOTB]

Never got an answer to my question in the preliminary thread so I'm reposting it here:

The skill tuning table says increased SP scaling on The Nomads Mirage skill. This skill does random damage and the skill description doesn't mention scaling with SP. Is all random damage scaled with SP? The in-game help says random damage is calculated from ATK and MAG.

Quoted from the in-game help on damage types:
"Some characters deal Random Damage which randomly picks from one of the above types [physical, magical, true], but any damage dealt will scale off both ATK and MAGIC."

This skill does indeed scale off of 100% of the Nomad's SP in addition to ATK and MAGIC. The description will be updated in the next release to communicate that.

-Kaz

[GreyMouser]

This new PVP is a complete disaster on my phone. Tried uninstalling/re-installing 2X to no avail. Iphone6s. I've been playing since the beginning... UGH.

I just get the spinning wheel of death when I try to go into PVP. HELP!

[mjmxiii]

Best thing about this update is the challenge of beating a team with the Prisoner on it. It is quite the mountain to climb if you don't have him. Any char that can potentially be his nemesis is pointless when Prisoner team goes first. Matter of fact, I've only had one instance where I went first when facing him and gained no advantage whatsoever! Its awesome to know you're walking into an unfavorable fight! Don't touch him!
:D

[Shaolin85london]

Meanwhile they found a counter for it, don't go against prisoners team.

[Fister]

Can't claim my achievement too ! The game shows the wait icon and never come out from this wait screen

Same here. Actually it is a releaf. Thought it was just my cell phone f'ing up. The more this affect the greater chance this will soon be worked out (hopefully) 😄

[slauki]

Well, first at all i'm glad that the PVP-release went pretty good for the most of us. This could push the game in a good direction again.
let's hope the best.

But i want to write about some issues i consider as flaws:

1. point system:

2472

the pvp release is less that a day old and i have 83 defenses...luckily i could hold some attacks, but WTF? How are we suppose to climb up, when we loose so much points every time? i got attacked from new players a lot, they will learn a lot in the next days/weeks. so our defense ratio will become much worse with the time. even if we would spend like mad it would be hard to cover up for the losses. so it's really necessary to cut down the losses even more, for lowranks and especially for highranks.

2. imbalance:
some buddys of mine has 9 attacks or 30-40attacks. why? some are low in ranks, so maybe they are not as attractive as opponents... other has defenses which are very scary like the OP prisoner/troll/aof combo. so the people avoid attacking them and pick other spots. that's creating huge imbalance since the "rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer". if this continues the game comes get down to "who has the prisoner owes you in multiple ways". so actually anyone without him is screwed to death. even some guys with the prisoner will agree in the meantime that this is a significant problem.

3. extremly pay to win scenario
without spending huge amounts of ironite it's not possible to be competitive anymore. i fully understand, that you have to earn some money, and that's totaly okay. but maybe it would be an option to limit the daily refills of sow to 3? no idea, but if something/someone forces you to invest real ressources it will scary away many player i'm afraid. and i also think that the rewards are slightly too high for the top 10 and a little too low for the 25-100 guys. the rich are getting richer due to this system too...if tactic is irrelevant and only the money and one character counts,then that's not fun at all.

aside this the game seems much better now, only the known bugs shouls be fixed asap. if sacrifice and bnw come out soon things could be pretty fine.

[Witkacy]

Evening folks :-)

After doing my today's duties and have found at last some time to play LOTB... First giving points to the rest of my troopers, then I hoped to have a little fun on the arena... Have done 2-3 fights, short break - come back and what I am seeing?

THIS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-09.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-24.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-36.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-49.png

I have FOUGHT with maybe two persons from that list since yesterday, nevermind the final result, yet it seems that I can't revenge no-one... And I've gor couple of questions:

1. How this is happen that I can't revenge people whom I haven't fought yet?

2. Or maybe I can't fight with them because THEY have already fought with me first, took the points (some lost - I believe points for me), nevertheless I can't even TRY to took the points from them?

3. How is this happening that some people STILL can raid over and over the same persons like it was during the beta tests despite that now is bigger pool of players as its launched worldwide for everybody?

4. How this is fair that I can't revenge in theory after two matches, yet others can attack me as many times as they wish?

5. Do any of you devs (and so players) finding this system challenging, motivating?

Cheers,

W

[BonFire]

Hm. Was hoping I'd at least have a month before I had to start resetting defences. On the other hand, I like that I'm not seeing Mummy Eddie anymore. That's probably why he's the new icon for the game, because he took over the beta in the final weeks.

[Bradata]

Evening folks :-)

After doing my today's duties and have found at last some time to play LOTB... First giving points to the rest of my troopers, then I hoped to have a little fun on the arena... Have done 2-3 fights, short break - come back and what I am seeing?

THIS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-09.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-24.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-36.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/LOTB/Screenshot_2017-02-15-19-57-49.png

I have FOUGHT with maybe two persons from that list since yesterday, nevermind the final result, yet it seems that I can't revenge no-one... And I've gor couple of questions:

1. How this is happen that I can't revenge people whom I haven't fought yet?

2. Or maybe I can't fight with them because THEY have already fought with me first, took the points (some lost - I believe points for me), nevertheless I can't even TRY to took the points from them?

3. How is this happening that some people STILL can raid over and over the same persons like it was during the beta tests despite that now is bigger pool of players as its launched worldwide for everybody?

4. How this is fair that I can't revenge in theory after two matches, yet others can attack me as many times as they wish?

5. Do any of you devs (and so players) finding this system challenging, motivating?

Cheers,

W

I have the same situation and I was told that I have had my 20 revenges for the day and that's why I can't revenge any attacks for the rest of the day.

[Caretaker]

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4833-Your-thoughts-on-how-the-attack-lists-should-look-like

Please read, and respond. And read just few posts before on this thread where bradata hadnthis issue.

[Ancient Mariner]

Can anyone explain me how it's decided who plays the first turn when you attack someone's team?

Is it random?

[Caretaker]

It is said it's random. As if anything in computing is. No one knows, but it's obvious it's not random.
Those who know will not tell :p

[BonFire]

Haha, before the beta ended, it seemed the game actively hated me. Only went first twice out of 15 tries that day. When you're dealing with sentinels that is a death sentence.

[mjmxiii]

3. extremly pay to win scenario
without spending huge amounts of ironite it's not possible to be competitive anymore. i fully understand, that you have to earn some money, and that's totaly okay. but maybe it would be an option to limit the daily refills of sow to 3? no idea, but if something/someone forces you to invest real ressources it will scary away many player i'm afraid. and i also think that the rewards are slightly too high for the top 10 and a little too low for the 25-100 guys. the rich are getting richer due to this system too...if tactic is irrelevant and only the money and one character counts,then that's not fun at all.

This. PVP is an addictive pay-to-play trap at the moment. The more money you invest in ironite, the higher your rank will be. The higher your rank, the better your reward. Simple as that. It's evident in the 1 SOW per hour and only 10 battles in 10 hours if you don't buy more ironite.

What needs to be understood is that with the number of competitors, getting into the highest reward tier is unattainable even for the best Prisoner DEF teams unless you never sleep and have free time 24/7. Not a flawed system though, as it seems more intentionally flawed to make that money. Quite genius really.

That said it has given me a fun new challenge. Please leave the Prisoner un-nerfed as I actually enjoy the opportunity to defeat his team once every hour! Takes me back to a time when Trolls were the bane of my existence :p

Cheers!

[Mizrael]

...the pvp release is less that a day old and i have 83 defenses...

That was my first thought when i saw beta few weeks ago!
I woke up every morning with about 15-20 losses (so if you play casually you will stand on the same spot the whole week). And i asked myself: what will i do, when that 15 changes to a 100?...
But i thought that everyone was asking themselves that same question (devs included) and they had it all figured out...

[BillLion]

Super challenging to progress. I've gotten to a certain level and am standing still because of so many attacks (six in an hour recently). Fortunately, my hold rate is good right now so it balances itself out and keeps me stuck rather than going back (as long as I play and win my SOW).

But once the newbies figure this out a bit more defense rates will drop and we're all gonna be in trouble!

[Caretaker]

Aditional content?? Just got it.

[Aristo4]

Additional content must have been the fix for claiming achievements. Claimed everything again after 1 month of wait :O

[scott-5496]

Just had an update too. Wonder if its achievements?

[Caretaker]

Congrats! It worked.

[Patrice-1201]

Achievements are fixed 😀

[Sparton_LOTB]

Additional content must have been the fix for claiming achievements. Claimed everything again after 1 month of wait :O

Yeah, one of our programmers had an eureka moment, so we rushed out a server fix. We're not 100% sure it fixes everyone, but we figured it was safe and simple enough to send it out now.

Please let us know if it has fixed the issue blocking you from getting challenges/achievements. If it hasn't, please pop support a line at [email protected] so they can help pass along more details to our team.

[Aristo4]

Yeah, one of our programmers had an eureka moment, so we rushed out a server fix. We're not 100% sure it fixes everyone, but we figured it was safe and simple enough to send it out now.

Please let us know if it has fixed the issue blocking you from getting challenges/achievements. If it hasn't, please pop support a line at [email protected] so they can help pass along more details to our team.

Well done to the guy anyway...and give him a cookie from me :cool:

[Kamuz24z]

Yeah, one of our programmers had an eureka moment, so we rushed out a server fix. We're not 100% sure it fixes everyone, but we figured it was safe and simple enough to send it out now.

Please let us know if it has fixed the issue blocking you from getting challenges/achievements. If it hasn't, please pop support a line at [email protected] so they can help pass along more details to our team.

It worked for me thanks

[gmac]

Achievements working for me too! Nice Job!

[Nine]

What needs to be understood is that with the number of competitors, getting into the highest reward tier is unattainable even for the best Prisoner DEF teams unless you never sleep and have free time 24/7. Not a flawed system though, as it seems more intentionally flawed to make that money. Quite genius really.


I guess it is more the bitterness that speaks but it really isn't genious if one thinks ahead in time a little bit. It is a system which is completely about making a lot of revenue fast and a huge revenue on a very selective group of people over the course of time- at last that's how the incentives are set right now. Genious would be something sustainable that makes money consistantly.

At the beginning people will be spending Ironite (that you can already see). However, taking the fun of playing the game aside there is an actively limited number of people who will have success when spending. 25 to be precise. The more ironite someone spends right now, the higher are the chances he won't spend anything ever again on PvP in the future if he doesn't make it into the 25. Maybe he tries again, and maybe again after that, but this is not sustainable for him.

Those who made it into the 25 will probably keep spending ironite in the next week, but they might evaluate if it was actually worth it. So chances are they quit spending at some point as well.

There's an interesting effect here, that when paying you don't substitute time with money - which is usually the case in free to play games and is true in PvE here as well - but you actually spend money to spend more time.
The group of people who has both in an amount they no longer need to care are the only ones who will stick with the system for a longer period of time.

My solution would be to make the PvP-system itself completely free of Ironite. Make money off of PvE which you still need to get Talismans, Characters, etc. to be competitive but charge for convenience there - as they already do. Maybe introduce other aspects that are mandatory to get there and you need for PvP.
If the finance system does't work as the team wishes right know it might be due to some really questionable pricing policy (and completely aside from the actual price, what's with those crossed out red numbers a pack was never in store for?) and the fact that the main Item I thought the shop was there for is completely useless (souls).

Is is really a shame that the system is in danger to hold back PvP because I do see a huge potential there and it defintely has the power to become the core element of of the game. But there needs to be a spirit of fair competition, a will to play for the fun of it and not just to cross finishing another line - a line that is moving and you are pulled back from.

My two cents, I completly agree with Slauki.

[BillLion]

I guess it is more the bitterness that speaks but it really isn't genious if one thinks ahead in time a little bit. It is a system which is completely about making a lot of revenue fast and a huge revenue on a very selective group of people over the course of time- at last that's how the incentives are set right now. Genious would be something sustainable that makes money consistantly.

At the beginning people will be spending Ironite (that you can already see). However, taking the fun of playing the game aside there is an actively limited number of people who will have success when spending. 25 to be precise. The more ironite someone spends right now, the higher are the chances he won't spend anything ever again on PvP in the future if he doesn't make it into the 25. Maybe he tries again, and maybe again after that, but this is not sustainable for him.

Those who made it into the 25 will probably keep spending ironite in the next week, but they might evaluate if it was actually worth it. So chances are they quit spending at some point as well.

There's an interesting effect here, that when paying you don't substitute time with money - which is usually the case in free to play games and is true in PvE here as well - but you actually spend money to spend more time.
The group of people who has both in an amount they no longer need to care are the only ones who will stick with the system for a longer period of time.

My solution would be to make the PvP-system itself completely free of Ironite. Make money off of PvE which you still need to get Talismans, Characters, etc. to be competitive but charge for convenience there - as they already do. Maybe introduce other aspects that are mandatory to get there and you need for PvP.
If the finance system does't work as the team wishes right know it might be due to some really questionable pricing policy (and completely aside from the actual price, what's with those crossed out red numbers a pack was never in store for?) and the fact that the main Item I thought the shop was there for is completely useless (souls).

Is is really a shame that the system is in danger to hold back PvP because I do see a huge potential there and it defintely has the power to become the core element of of the game. But there needs to be a spirit of fair competition, a will to play for the fun of it and not just to cross finishing another line - a line that is moving and you are pulled back from.

My two cents, I completly agree with Slauki.

I hear you, but PVP is where the real opportunity to make $ is, so they have to make this work.

I do think you had some points in that the current setup will be limited in who will spend long term (I tried to address that in my earlier post). I think the devs have to try to monetize here, but I hope they achieve a satisfactory experience for F2P players or there won't be many playing after awhile.

I trust tweaking will be ongoing.

[CanyptianFit]

Achievements fixed for me too. Many thanks!

[Nine]

I hear you, but PVP is where the real opportunity to make $ is, so they have to make this work.

I do think you had some points in that the current setup will be limited in who will spend long term (I tried to address that in my earlier post). I think the devs have to try to monetize here, but I hope they achieve a satisfactory experience for F2P players or there won't be many playing after awhile.

I trust tweaking will be ongoing.

I agree with you. Reading my post again, I have to point out that I wasn't referring to myself regarding the "bitterness". I know they have to make money - might it ony be to cover expenses. I try to be fair and realistic about it. And yeah, my solution is more off a wish, but there are games that are financing themselves by selling hats! That would be the ideal case, but of course coming up with an incentive to spend money that works and has no side effect of restricting the game play is really hard to come up with.

Regarding tweaking, my guess would be there are two more or less immediate changes coming: Long term goal rewards that are independent of the leader board, payable via coins (and I think those were already more or less announced). It keeps those players interested that cannot or don't want compete at the top. That wouldn't be the most innovative thing to do, more of carrot, but it myight suffice.
Second teaking I expect in the next month is an adjustment of the higher ranks regarding the number of people in it. When I read about the beta with a much smaller pool I thought those would be changed when going "live". Seeing how many players there are, they might as well simply multiply it by 10 - the absolute number of points is still a huge barrier.

[slauki]

one observation: i refresh the list the whole day but it seems to only give me lower rank people to fight.
samplesize of 6-8 but there seems to be something wrong there.
it would be good if also some higher ranks would appear, but maybe this is just me or simply coincidence...

anyone similar observations?

EDIT: daily rewards were fixed for me too, good one :-)

[mjmxiii]

I think he might have been calling out my bitterness. So hard to read emotions through text, never let it bug me unless it's in ALL CAPS!
:D

[Tritium]

The achievement fix is great news! That programmer is a hero. ;)

[The Educated fool]

Yeah, one of our programmers had an eureka moment, so we rushed out a server fix. We're not 100% sure it fixes everyone, but we figured it was safe and simple enough to send it out now.


Well done to the guy anyway...and give him a cookie from me :cool:

A cookie from me too! Hell, I'll even throw in a mug of hot chocolate! :cool: Very nice to have the daily achievement rewards back.

[Lord Schmeb]

Well, for as much pissing and moaning as I have done over the last few months, I sure am pleased with PvP. I know I like it and am enjoying the challenge because I haven't been this frustrated/competitive/pissed/happy since the days of Street Fighter 2 when I couldn't beat M. Bison to save my life. Broken controllers, shattered game cartridges, much swearing and even a few tears of rage... Ah, the good old days.

I haven't raged myself to tears yet, but holy shit, if I get one-rounded by the Troll-Red Bat combo one more time... Seriously though, I must be one of the longest tenured players to NOT have a Troll or Red Bat -- or ANY Bat for that matter. Not that I'm complaining, but I bet 9 in 10 teams have at least one of those, if not both.

There are still miles to go before I'll figure this Arena shit out, but man does it feel good to not be grinding...

[Chaosego888]

Best thing about this update is the challenge of beating a team with the Prisoner on it. It is quite the mountain to climb if you don't have him. Any char that can potentially be his nemesis is pointless when Prisoner team goes first. Matter of fact, I've only had one instance where I went first when facing him and gained no advantage whatsoever! Its awesome to know you're walking into an unfavorable fight! Don't touch him!
:D
I agree completely and I don't have one yet either. Just haven't figured out a way to deal with that Maxed Troll/Maxed Prisoner combo yet

[Chaosego888]

Yeah, one of our programmers had an eureka moment, so we rushed out a server fix. We're not 100% sure it fixes everyone, but we figured it was safe and simple enough to send it out now.

Please let us know if it has fixed the issue blocking you from getting challenges/achievements. If it hasn't, please pop support a line at [email protected] so they can help pass along more details to our team.
Just claimed my first Achievements of 2017

[Chaosego888]

I hear you, but PVP is where the real opportunity to make $ is, so they have to make this work.

I do think you had some points in that the current setup will be limited in who will spend long term (I tried to address that in my earlier post). I think the devs have to try to monetize here, but I hope they achieve a satisfactory experience for F2P players or there won't be many playing after awhile.

I trust tweaking will be ongoing.
I think your idea for awarding rare characters through the higher tiers of PvP is something that would solve a lot of problems. The developers definitely
need to implement that soon. I might even take a week off work to chase down a Cyborg Eddie.

[Chaosego888]

one observation: i refresh the list the whole day but it seems to only give me lower rank people to fight.
samplesize of 6-8 but there seems to be something wrong there.
it would be good if also some higher ranks would appear, but maybe this is just me or simply coincidence...

anyone similar observations?

EDIT: daily rewards were fixed for me too, good one :-)
It's not a coincidence, a couple of names are replaced and 7 or 8 stay the same. I see players like Schadenfreud mattyj and caretakerii on my list almost constantly and rarely some others

[IceManFerrar]

Well done, LoTB team. I know that there have been a lot of issues with the past releases and many of us had issues or complained about things, but I must say that this release has been very good and the PvP stuff is absolutely awesome!

It has made me regret wasting so many shards and runes of the wrong toons and Talismans...man, PvP is such a different beast than PvE. I don't have a darn Troll, Prisoner, AoF, or AGS, so am having sleepless nights and distracted days trying my best to ponder my teams and strategize. But I am up for the challenge (and have also reached out to some of the experts ;) )...You guys have got me completely hooked, Lol!

Thank you all so much and well done...hats off to all of you getting this done under so much pressure! Awesome job, I mean it!

Cheers!

[kavale]

Steel can't get in to PvP Arena... It doesn't matter were I touch, my phone freezing and I have to restart the game. I hope there will be solution about this problem...

-------------------------

I don't know what I did , but now everything is OK. The game is working well

[Kardas]

I'm seeing the character screen in the Campaign puts the highest leveled dupe first now. Minor change, but very user friendly.

On the other hand, I did notice one cosmetic error: Sometimes when in the Cosmos, the warp thing to the Time Rift is purple instead of blue and says 'Cosmos' instead of 'Time Rift'.

[scott-5496]

Well done, LoTB team. I know that there have been a lot of issues with the past releases and many of us had issues or complained about things, but I must say that this release has been very good and the PvP stuff is absolutely awesome!

It has made me regret wasting so many shards and runes of the wrong toons and Talismans...man, PvP is such a different beast than PvE. I don't have a darn Troll, Prisoner, AoF, or AGS, so am having sleepless nights and distracted days trying my best to ponder my teams and strategize. But I am up for the challenge (and have also reached out to some of the experts ;) )...You guys have got me completely hooked, Lol!

Thank you all so much and well done...hats off to all of you getting this done under so much pressure! Awesome job, I mean it!

Cheers!

Seconded - I think now that we have achievements fixed this has been a very worthwhile update. Glad to see us with a stable game though I still get the odd crash due to server errors but that is just a few times over a day so it is OK. Is it me or are most things now working OK?

PVP is good I have to say - different enough too but I am sure that it will be tweaked once there has been a couple of weeks of stats for the devs to pour over. I have been killed a couple of times and my defence has held pretty well in most cases - there are some cracking teams out there but my non-maxed Prisoner has helped me through in several cases I think - I need to shard him more though! Still getting my ass handed to me by several folk on here so a lot for me to learn yet!

[Silentknight]

one observation: i refresh the list the whole day but it seems to only give me lower rank people to fight.
samplesize of 6-8 but there seems to be something wrong there.
it would be good if also some higher ranks would appear, but maybe this is just me or simply coincidence...

anyone similar observations?

EDIT: daily rewards were fixed for me too, good one :-)

Same here. List has no one more than 10 points higher than myself. Until last night,got Nicko. Good thing for revenges

[Hypnos]

cheers for the fix guys.

[Hypnos]

On the other hand, I did notice one cosmetic error: Sometimes when in the Cosmos, the warp thing to the Time Rift is purple instead of blue and says 'Cosmos' instead of 'Time Rift'.

I can second this. A minor display issue but here's to hoping we'll have more of these bugs to talk about than major ones from now on!

[Kutte]

Hmm i did some matches and even won some.
But it startet go get boring very, very fast.

There is simply no variety. Facing the same Team - not the same players! - (AoF, Troll, Prisoner/Rescuer/other High DPS toon) over and over and over again is not very funny at all.
It's not that they are OP or that i'm not able to kill them, its simply boring.
Farming GoD is just as boring, but at least i get some loot.

I really hoped that everbody would get some good loot after a match like beating a secret level.
The only ones who'll ever get some good stuff are those, who already have those already.

It's not needed to nerf these Toons at all, but there must be some way to limit them.
Why are Party Costs even in game?
It would be a great use for them

[HomemLivre]

I agree completely and I don't have one yet either. Just haven't figured out a way to deal with that Maxed Troll/Maxed Prisoner combo yet

Before this nerf patch I was able to win 50% of the battles against prisioners/red trolls teams, the "key" was the Assassin troll.
Devs: "What should we do to solve the prisioner problem? I have an idea! Why not nerf the one of the chars who was able to fight with less disvatage? Yeah, lets do this!" End of story.

[Browno]

Assasin troll got nerfed hard. Before extra skill lvl he did 11.9k dmg. After extra skill/shard he did 14.9k dmg. After this patch he do 10.2k dmg.
That is his fervor skill.

[BillLion]

So continuing with some of the PVP challenges.

Yesterday I was attacked 81 times in 24 hours. Fortunately, I was able to hold 50% of those so after a day of play I find myself standing still (playing every SOW refill and winning almost every offensive match). Today I woke up after 6.5 hours of sleep to see 20 attacks against me and my defense ratio dropped to 40% (to be expected as people figure out PVP a bit more -and this number will keep dropping).

You can see the challenge -way too many attacks. You say -build a better defense team. Working on my advance strategy now -but alas the Prisoner continues to elude me (don't get me started on that).

Even if I desired to spend Ironite to climb out of the whole, I simply don't have the time to play to counter nearly 100 attacks per day (and get my trooper their badges mind you).

Fear not, I am here to help by re-presenting a solution. Cut or eliminate trophy losses for defensive losses. I know broken record -but there really is no other way to keep people engaged beyond the top 25 people. I fear as it is people will play hard, see the prizes at the end of the week and then scale back.

The other option is to limit the # of times a player can be attacked each day -but I think the trophy loss reduction/elimination is the way to go.

Edit Add: Another issue is you'll see too many people reaching their rank but not trophy requirements for the tier level prizes...very demotivating.

[fred10141988]

hmm i did some matches and even won some.
But it startet go get boring very, very fast.

There is simply no variety. Facing the same team - not the same players! - (aof, troll, prisoner/rescuer/other high dps toon) over and over and over again is not very funny at all.
It's not that they are op or that i'm not able to kill them, its simply boring.
Farming god is just as boring, but at least i get some loot.

I really hoped that everbody would get some good loot after a match like beating a secret level.
The only ones who'll ever get some good stuff are those, who already have those already.

It's not needed to nerf these toons at all, but there must be some way to limit them.
Why are party costs even in game?
It would be a great use for them

totally agree!!!

[HomemLivre]

Assasin troll got nerfed hard. Before extra skill lvl he did 11.9k dmg. After extra skill/shard he did 14.9k dmg. After this patch he do 10.2k dmg.
That is his fervor skill.

Not to mention the fact that his Charge gained on fervor perfect hits is not working...

EDIT: Seems like the devs wants to overpower the prisioner nerfing his nemesis

[Silentknight]

Same here. List has no one more than 10 points higher than myself. Until last night,got Nicko. Good thing for revenges

Been much better today

[ToTameAGame]

After the update PvP is "Pay to win but you need a Prisoner as well - without him you are screwed".

And with the silly point system you are basically going one step forward two steps back.

[Hypnos]

Someone mentioned this in a previous post but I can't find it. For some reason there are some teams who have attacked me and are revengeable but when I go to revenge one, win and then return to the defense tab, beside the rest of those teams it says "can't revenge" even though I hadn't attacked them yet.

[ToTameAGame]

Someone mentioned this in a previous post but I can't find it. For some reason there are some teams who have attacked me and are revengeable but when I go to revenge one, win and then return to the defense tab, beside the rest of those teams it says "can't revenge" even though I hadn't attacked them yet.

Btw: How is the Rainmaker after the nerf bat struck? Still usable? Any good for PvP?

[Rodrigo-3281]

Some thoughts I've had:

The randomness on who goes first is extremely aggravating. That's really how you win or lose a match. You may have a great team (and maybe I don't) but if you don't go first you're most likely going to lose so that's no real strategy.
This makes the lack of having certain characters even more depressing. I'm absolutely avoiding teams with the Prisoner or Red Troll. Why? Because I don't have those. I would much rather work for coins to guarantee myself a character like these and not to try for another useless soul that will not get me the characters I want.
There has to be a limit on how many times you get attacked per day. I can't play all the time but in what 2 days or so that's it's been available I've been attacked 120x already. Is that going to be normal?

Honestly, the only reason I will play PvP is to try to get the achievement awards and maybe get enough coins for a Legendary Soul (to be disappointed again) but honestly I think I'm going to continue the normal PvE grind more.

[Caretaker]

Don't give up just yet m8!
I was neeb for four days. Wrong creatures, wrong talismans. Give yourself few more days. Stack your ironite while you learn how to set up your team to withstand that first turn and does some crazy stuff you wouldn't think of in pvp. You'll need it next week.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Fear not, I am here to help by re-presenting a solution. Cut or eliminate trophy losses for defensive losses. I know broken record -but there really is no other way to keep people engaged beyond the top 25 people. I fear as it is people will play hard, see the prizes at the end of the week and then scale back.

If we deem that necessary we can do that... but we don't want to discourage people from investing in better defenses, so that PVP is merely about getting easy attack wins.

We're getting a wealth of data from having a substantially higher playerbase than the PVP Beta pool, and are looking at it to help determine how we will refine matchmaking, VP rules, etc.


Edit Add: Another issue is you'll see too many people reaching their rank but not trophy requirements for the tier level prizes...very demotivating.

This is bound to happen during the first week or two, but will eventually be a non-issue once people have relatively high point values (due to the weekly reset).


Someone mentioned this in a previous post but I can't find it. For some reason there are some teams who have attacked me and are revengeable but when I go to revenge one, win and then return to the defense tab, beside the rest of those teams it says "can't revenge" even though I hadn't attacked them yet.

For revenging, you can only revenge a given individual twice a day, but you can also only do 20 revenge battles per day. You've hit your limit!


Some thoughts I've had:

The randomness on who goes first is extremely aggravating. That's really how you win or lose a match. You may have a great team (and maybe I don't) but if you don't go first you're most likely going to lose so that's no real strategy.

It may be that you need to rethink your character teams, and/or how you have assigned talismans. You need to build a team that can work when going first or second to maximize your chance of victory, which often necessitates more defensive play, and/or building more health talismans to improve general sustainability.

If you want some tips from the developers, check out the new Talisman Packs in the store. You don't need to buy them if that's not your thing, but it shows you some possible sets of talismans that we've found work well if you want to have competitive characters in PVP. You'll notice that usually means having at least one health talisman, balancing secondary bonuses to Def/MR, using some more advanced sets to help build up combos, etc.

[gmac]

Some thoughts I've had:

The randomness on who goes first is extremely aggravating. That's really how you win or lose a match. You may have a great team (and maybe I don't) but if you don't go first you're most likely going to lose so that's no real strategy.
This makes the lack of having certain characters even more depressing. I'm absolutely avoiding teams with the Prisoner or Red Troll. Why? Because I don't have those. I would much rather work for coins to guarantee myself a character like these and not to try for another useless soul that will not get me the characters I want.
There has to be a limit on how many times you get attacked per day. I can't play all the time but in what 2 days or so that's it's been available I've been attacked 120x already. Is that going to be normal?

Honestly, the only reason I will play PvP is to try to get the achievement awards and maybe get enough coins for a Legendary Soul (to be disappointed again) but honestly I think I'm going to continue the normal PvE grind more.

Hi Rodrigo,

It will take a little bit of time to adjust to PVP. Sag made a great post with tips/thoughts for newcomers. Also, many considerations newer players are having we had during BETA. You might wanna check that thread too.

Having said that, maybe we did get too far ahead with skill shards and new toons during the BETA testing. I believe sacrifice is just around the corner to make up for that. The game has to make champions and skill shards more available for newer player to catch up.

Best

[Caretaker]

This is bound to happen during the first week or two, but will eventually be a non-issue once people have relatively high point values (due to the weekly reset).

You're sticking with that spread from beta on weekly reset? I have nothing nice to say anymore on that.

Sorry I am for the general population. No rewards for you (us), ever. Few same ppl will thrive.
I give you the players this and next weeks reset to realize that the best of the best ppl need 400 pts for rewards while you need cca 1000+. And it is fair :p

[treeb0mbb]

Hi Rodrigo,

It will take a little bit of time to adjust to PVP. Sag made a great post with tips/thoughts for newcomers. Also, many considerations newer players are having we had during BETA. You might wanna check that thread too.

Having said that, maybe we did get too far ahead with skill shards and new toons during the BETA testing. I believe sacrifice is just around the corner to make up for that. The game has to make champions and skill shards more available for newer player to catch up.

Best

Hey do you think you can link me that post Sag did? I could really use some help on PVP because I don't really know what kind of team to build currently or what talismans to use. I just use a SoL eddie, assassin corrupt rescuer, hellhound, and pharaoh dog for now because that's like my only strong trooops.

Also I feel sorry for Rodrigo he got attacked 120x?!?!? I only had gotten attacked once ever since PVP started dang lol. I mean I am pretty low in the trophies only Acolyte II

[gmac]

Hey do you think you can link me that post Sag did? I could really use some help on PVP because I don't really know what kind of team to build currently or what talismans to use. I just use a SoL eddie, assassin corrupt rescuer, hellhound, and pharaoh dog for now because that's like my only strong trooops.

Also I feel sorry for Rodrigo he got attacked 120x?!?!? I only had gotten attacked once ever since PVP started dang lol. I mean I am pretty low in the trophies only Acolyte II

I think is this one, I´ll try to link the arena as well.
http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4740-A-beginner-s-guide-to-PvP-So-far

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey do you think you can link me that post Sag did?

I think he's talking about A beginner's guide to PvP... So far (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4740-A-beginner-s-guide-to-PvP-So-far). Definitely a great resource. EDIT: Gmac too fast for me!

There's also plenty of other discussions in the PVP Discussion (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?42-PVP-Discussion) subforum that go over the many intricacies and people's opinions on PVP.

[treeb0mbb]

I think is this one, I´ll try to link the arena as well.
http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4740-A-beginner-s-guide-to-PvP-So-far


I think he's talking about A beginner's guide to PvP... So far (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4740-A-beginner-s-guide-to-PvP-So-far). Definitely a great resource. EDIT: Gmac too fast for me!

There's also plenty of other discussions in the PVP Discussion (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?42-PVP-Discussion) subforum that go over the many intricacies and people's opinions on PVP.

Alright thanks guys!

[Ringe666-7406]

Great job Sparton... I was attacked 170 times in less then 40 hours, with only 40 revenges possible, and every single win giving me 12 points while broken def losing me at least 18. This is such a great system and such a refreshment from PvE grinding. I am also happy that I can only see 10 most recent attacks only and carefully pick my revenges from 29, which is sow many I had last two mornings. It really is possible to make some progress in Arena, with two refills a day you can be +1 point compared to yesterday. I also like how I can one-shot teams with Prisoner + Troll/hellhound etc, and how a guy with best team can get himself even more good chars from souls and equip that dudes right away with skillshards. Also, please don't listen to Billion and other players with their stupid advises, they are just moaners and whiners who want this game to die ASAP. Keep up the great work \m/

[slauki]

one real small but important improvment would be to add the rank and the current points to the names on the revenge screen.

so we can quickly see, who is a good pick to revenge. now i have 154 attacks and i have to search every time for the name
of the guy and think about if it's worth to revenge him. that's really annoying...

please check the refresh lists too, they are still broken, even there are so many new names, 40%-70% of the lists remains the same every time.
this has to be some sort of conflict.

EDIT:

And yes, please listen to Billion a little more he is a bright mind and has really good suggestions. :-)

[BillLion]

Also, please don't listen to Billion and other players with their stupid advises, they are just moaners and whiners who want this game to die ASAP. Keep up the great work \m/



EDIT:

And yes, please listen to Billion a little more he is a bright mind and has really good suggestions. :-)

Yes, I am both stupid & bright! :cool:

And worth listening to either way ;)

[Bradata]

Yes, I am both stupid & bright! :cool:

And worth listening to either way ;)

No, man! You are just the voice of most of us, stupid and bright players who still are not giving up on this dump game...

[BillLion]

If we deem that necessary we can do that... but we don't want to discourage people from investing in better defenses, so that PVP is merely about getting easy attack wins.

We're getting a wealth of data from having a substantially higher playerbase than the PVP Beta pool, and are looking at it to help determine how we will refine matchmaking, VP rules, etc.

Sparton, I get that. But how do you recover from 80-100 attacks per day? Even if you have a decent offense (holds at 25% plus is good I think) then you still find yourself in decline or stuck at best. Did you guys anticipate this #of attacks on a player?

2481

Edit: I'm working my defense and testing better options constantly, but that will only get us so far.

[gmac]

Sparton/Kaz,

Could you elaborate a bit on how the current AI works?

For instance, how they pick which power ability to use? Seems to me protective ones are chosen first.

Also, does their position on the line influence their actions? (Tried switching the order many times, seems random, but I´m not smart enough)

It would be great if we could have a say on their actions, either by their placement on the map or by just saying: "attack only mode" for this guy!

And as a suggestion, we could use more feedback about how people are attacking us, teams their using to attack and % win rate against players/champions. So we´d know what is giving us trouble. (I believe we are biased to set our defense based on how we attack because of the lack of info)

Best

[Mizrael]

My gess would be that skills have certain categories, like "buff","heal",aso.
Those are specified by the current state of your team: fury,power,HP,...
Although i have seen AI do such stupidities (yesterday a low on HP troll cast his shields instead of just attacking my "1 HP left" eddie,thanks for that win AI), which might prove my theory wrong.

And move order of the team seems to be completely random (also most of the time the worst possible one). So i don't think it matters in what order you place your characters...

And then we have those anomalies...where the AI takes over and an AGS blows down his own team while endured, or mummy eddie starts with a heal shield while noone on the team can do that, or MGS reviving and entering some strange "endless charging" move which forces you to force close the game (thanks for that loss AI) and a new one i noticed today: the red troll seems to regain a bit of his HP just before a killing blow (hard to describe... it looks like the CR fury glitch, but actually raises his HP bar from red to orange instead of killing him). So the AI decides...not Sparton or Kaz ;)

[Sparton_LOTB]

Great job Sparton... I was attacked 170 times in less then 40 hours, with only 40 revenges possible, and every single win giving me 12 points while broken def losing me at least 18. This is such a great system and such a refreshment from PvE grinding. I am also happy that I can only see 10 most recent attacks only and carefully pick my revenges from 29, which is sow many I had last two mornings. It really is possible to make some progress in Arena, with two refills a day you can be +1 point compared to yesterday.

As if this writing, you're... rank 45.

Better than thousands of players.

Looks like you're doing just fine.


one real small but important improvment would be to add the rank and the current points to the names on the revenge screen.

so we can quickly see, who is a good pick to revenge. now i have 154 attacks and i have to search every time for the name
of the guy and think about if it's worth to revenge him. that's really annoying...

Yeah, we can look into surfacing that information a bit more easily.


please check the refresh lists too, they are still broken, even there are so many new names, 40%-70% of the lists remains the same every time.
this has to be some sort of conflict.

This is something we're still looking into improving. The bigger playerbase has helped (at least for most people), but it looks like people at the top see this more often than not.


And yes, please listen to Billion a little more he is a bright mind and has really good suggestions. :-)

Oh yeah, I've been happy to digest his advice (and many others' constructive criticism, too). I just can't promise too much right now while we're still analyzing and making sure that PVP is performing as intended (that people can continue to climb during the week, people want the rank-based division rewards, and that there is competition to get into the rank-based divisions).


Sparton, I get that. But how do you recover from 80-100 attacks per day? Even if you have a decent offense (holds at 25% plus is good I think) then you still find yourself in decline or stuck at best. Did you guys anticipate this #of attacks on a player?

The short answer is people are continuing to climb despite that.

The long answer is we expected there to be more attacks and for the loss reduction based on divisions to mostly handle that so people can still be making progress getting higher VP from day to day. Despite attacks on some players outstripping what we expected, that seems to be working as intended, but if we see people end up stuttering around the division where the loss reduction drops off (Duelist II w/1700), then we know we'll have more work to do (either with tuning those values and/or doing other things to spread attacks around).


Could you elaborate a bit on how the current AI works?

I wish I could with confidence, but there's definitely a lot of weird legacy code from the Roadhouse days which governs that.

Mizrael has it about right, in that moves are categorized and the AI tries to use them at seemingly smart times, but... they sometimes lack awareness with what the enemy's current state is (thus Mizrael's example about the dumb Warrior Troll), or awareness in how their "heal" skill or whatever works relative to other heal skills (thus low health Sentinel Allied Bomber Boy sometimes doing a poorly-timed heal).


It would be great if we could have a say on their actions, either by their placement on the map or by just saying: "attack only mode" for this guy!

We do want to be able to do something like that eventually, but the above issue of crazy legacy code makes that problematic to build off of. That said, there is someone in the office who's taking extra time out of his day to try and look at improving the general AI (to have better situational awareness), but I dunno when the fruits of his labour will make it into the game, or if we'll be able to make it so it can be "player-tuned".


And as a suggestion, we could use more feedback about how people are attacking us, teams their using to attack and % win rate against players/champions. So we´d know what is giving us trouble. (I believe we are biased to set our defense based on how we attack because of the lack of info)

We are looking into expanding on that information, but I don't have a timeline for it. We've spent a long time working on PVP, and while we know there's still improvements we want to do, we want to make sure we don't have such a large gap between releasing new features!

[RCarter]

As if this writing, you're... rank 45.

Better than thousands of players.

Looks like you're doing just fine.

Sparton, thanks for the LOL, intended or not. Been one of those days and that just made me laugh...

I gotta admit that I wasn't particularly thrilled with the idea of PVP. But after playing around with it for a couple of days, its been fun. It has really made me think about things in a different way.

I was wondering if we change a toons talisman load out in PVE, does that change the load out of that toon if it is locked into the PVP defense?

[Ubajoa]

It is absolutely impossible to rank up when you are in the middle. Right now I am at rank 59 1672, the refresh list give me 10 options with 200 less points than me (6 refresh in a row). 10 guys between 1350 and 1450. If I decide to attack them I'll be winning 120 points, 12 per head. And then the 10 guys will revenge me they will take me 170 cause the 200 difference. If I'm lucky I'll hold 2 of them (cause you know I dont have a prisoner nor troll nor CG so my defense sucks) that gives me -17*8+12*2 equals to -136 in addition to that will be the 20 attacks from the attack list. So my question is why we cant have high ranks in the refresh list? or at least people with similar rating.

[Mizrael]

And why does the AI "auto draw" after like 100 rounds? i swear i was 1 round away from a win!!!(Thanks for that draw AI)

[Rodrigo-3281]

Hi Rodrigo,

It will take a little bit of time to adjust to PVP. Sag made a great post with tips/thoughts for newcomers. Also, many considerations newer players are having we had during BETA. You might wanna check that thread too.

Having said that, maybe we did get too far ahead with skill shards and new toons during the BETA testing. I believe sacrifice is just around the corner to make up for that. The game has to make champions and skill shards more available for newer player to catch up.

Best

Thanks Gmac. I'll take a look at Sag's thread as well as the PvP forum to see more tips.



It may be that you need to rethink your character teams, and/or how you have assigned talismans. You need to build a team that can work when going first or second to maximize your chance of victory, which often necessitates more defensive play, and/or building more health talismans to improve general sustainability.

If you want some tips from the developers, check out the new Talisman Packs in the store. You don't need to buy them if that's not your thing, but it shows you some possible sets of talismans that we've found work well if you want to have competitive characters in PVP. You'll notice that usually means having at least one health talisman, balancing secondary bonuses to Def/MR, using some more advanced sets to help build up combos, etc.

I immediately noticed that my Golden Sons (Assassin and Warrior both maxed out) really don't stand a chance due to their low health (I really like their talisman setup for PvE). So I have a higher health team now and it does seem like I can make it out of the first wave attack.

I have some Toon options that I'm working on to give me that Def/MR bonus like the Sentinel Bomber Boy or Pyro Soldier. I keep seeing Mummy and GR Eddie on plenty of teams so maybe I'll look at them too.

[Nicko]

As I was testing my defense, I removed the Prisoner and replaced him with an AoF. Because I was tired, last night when I attacked Schadenfreud I forgot to put my Prisoner back on the team. Oops ;). In any event, my Troll and Hellhound's passives didn't work because his team had the Siege passive, he went first, and I was stunned/taunted/frozen to death. I lost.

So yes, the Prisoner is important. That battle reminded me how much I depend on him. But - it also validated what I suspected before - lose the Prisoner and another toon will just take his place as "overpowered". In this case it was the Blue bat (or maybe Death Dog, can't remember which). Yes - the Prisoner is more powerful as he affects all passives, but Immunity and the Trolls shield are probably two of the most critical passives in the game and they are eliminated with Siege. Nerfing the Prisoner too much simply passes the buck.

[slauki]

wouldn't it be a solution to remove the points needed for claiming specific rewards? if solely the ranking would matter, there would be much more competition in total all over the list. i imagine a big firework on saturday with many refills all over the place.

i understand that you want to assure that people play a lot to "deserve" the rewards, but i assume that you would create much more action/competition when you simply make a rank based reward system. then the point system could stay as it is. the competition will make the people play, that should be more effective and it will bring the competition into every region of the list not only into the top 25 region.

now many people won't refill on saturday because they don't have the points needed for ther reward anyway. so why should they spend something?if yoz change it it would immidiatly push the number of refills and your income at the same time :)

[Kaz_LOTB]

Sparton, thanks for the LOL, intended or not. Been one of those days and that just made me laugh...

I gotta admit that I wasn't particularly thrilled with the idea of PVP. But after playing around with it for a couple of days, its been fun. It has really made me think about things in a different way.

I was wondering if we change a toons talisman load out in PVE, does that change the load out of that toon if it is locked into the PVP defense?

Currently your Talisman load outs do not get saved until you leave the inventory screen, so unequipping and equipping talismans while in your inventory will not affect your defense team.

-Kaz

[Sparton_LOTB]

I was wondering if we change a toons talisman load out in PVE, does that change the load out of that toon if it is locked into the PVP defense?

Kaz's comment is correct. That said, as far as features are concerned, it would change talisman assignment on that character for use in other features. Right now, talismans are tied to the character, not tied to a character in a team.


It is absolutely impossible to rank up when you are in the middle. Right now I am at rank 59 1672, the refresh list give me 10 options with 200 less points than me (6 refresh in a row). 10 guys between 1350 and 1450. If I decide to attack them I'll be winning 120 points, 12 per head. And then the 10 guys will revenge me they will take me 170 cause the 200 difference. If I'm lucky I'll hold 2 of them (cause you know I dont have a prisoner nor troll nor CG so my defense sucks) that gives me -17*8+12*2 equals to -136 in addition to that will be the 20 attacks from the attack list.

In general, you usually won't be revenged as much as you attack (because revenging is limited per day, and not everyone will revenge even if they have the option).

That said, if you end up being stalled at this amount while spending all the energy you naturally regain even through to Saturday, then certainly we will have a problem, and we'll look at tuning to make it so players are not stalled at such a point so far before the rank-based divisions.


So my question is why we cant have high ranks in the refresh list? or at least people with similar rating.

Right now manually refreshing gives you slightly easier opponents (and easier opponents will usually have lower scores). Perhaps it's too much lower in score, though, so that's something we can look at.


wouldn't it be a solution to remove the points needed for claiming specific rewards? if solely the ranking would matter, there would be much more competition in total all over the list. i imagine a big firework on saturday with many refills all over the place.

i understand that you want to assure that people play a lot to "deserve" the rewards, but i assume that you would create much more action/competition when you simply make a rank based reward system. then the point system could stay as it is. the competition will make the people play, that should be more effective and it will bring the competition into every region of the list not only into the top 25 region.

now many people won't refill on saturday because they don't have the points needed for ther reward anyway. so why should they spend something?if yoz change it it would immidiatly push the number of refills and your income at the same time :)

Not having the top 25 able to get rewards for the top few divisions only happened early in the beta when the point system made it much harder for higher ranked people to climb, and when there were far fewer competitors. People are still climbing hard and fast (Jofer16 just came outta nowhere and bumped Nicko outta 1st). I would be surprised if at least the top 4 divisions weren't filled out by people with enough points by this Saturday, but it's definitely possible.

[Kamuz24z]

As I was testing my defense, I removed the Prisoner and replaced him with an AoF. Because I was tired, last night when I attacked Schadenfreud I forgot to put my Prisoner back on the team. Oops ;). In any event, my Troll and Hellhound's passives didn't work because his team had the Siege passive, he went first, and I was stunned/taunted/frozen to death. I lost.

So yes, the Prisoner is important. That battle reminded me how much I depend on him. But - it also validated what I suspected before - lose the Prisoner and another toon will just take his place as "overpowered". In this case it was the Blue bat (or maybe Death Dog, can't remember which). Yes - the Prisoner is more powerful as he affects all passives, but Immunity and the Trolls shield are probably two of the most critical passives in the game and they are eliminated with Siege. Nerfing the Prisoner too much simply passes the buck.

Really good point Nicko I think just by reducing the amount of toons affected by the prisoner or blue bat (siege) let's say that instead of taking the immunity from all toons provide by hellhound take it away from 2 random toons instead of all them and then we'll have two toons protected by immunity or shields if you are using the troll, for Angel of fear get affected for a 50% chance of getting a extra turn i think that will be a good balance and to get to the top you don't necessarily need a prisoner all the guys taking the top spots have a prisoner

[Thedarkness]

First of all. PVP is really fun. Thaks for putting it out with minimal update chaos.

I do think the good rewards are WAY too limited. Only top 25 are worthwhile and you're only going to get there if you have a maxed mummy eddie on defense, along with a prisoner and a troll (with ssd, cg, or an immunity dog most likely as a third). Im already hitting a wall where 8 out of 10 teams I see use those characters

Id say up the rewards for anybody in the top 100 to get at least a rare gunner assassim soul and give the top 25 guys a bunch of skillshards. They likely already own most good toons anyway and those rate souls arent worth much to them. Even a legendary soul will likely only get you a dupe.

Only rewarding 25 out of thousands of players seems very harsh.

Sid-2370

[Thedarkness]

One more thing. Eliminate defense point losses and award a SOW for each one or two holds and watch everyone stop complaining

Sid-2370

[Nekroliun]

Pvp is the most fun ive ever had in this game. But ofc, it has problems, why are all of my enemies lvl 90-100s?

Also, pretty sure that a COTD isnt supposed to get unlimited extra attacks and kill all of his team due to reflect shield...

[Tritium]

Are revived characters supposed to bring back their first-turn passives with them? I fought a team with GRE and every time he revived his ally warrior Troll, the shields would be brought back. This was rather annoying to deal with and doesn't seem fair. I've also experienced revived AOFs activating their First Blood passive if they kill one of my allies, even though the enemy team clearly already experienced the death of one of its own, which SHOULD negate the AOF passive. :confused:

[Caretaker]

As I was testing my defense, I removed the Prisoner and replaced him with an AoF. Because I was tired, last night when I attacked Schadenfreud I forgot to put my Prisoner back on the team. Oops ;). In any event, my Troll and Hellhound's passives didn't work because his team had the Siege passive, he went first, and I was stunned/taunted/frozen to death. I lost.

So yes, the Prisoner is important. That battle reminded me how much I depend on him. But - it also validated what I suspected before - lose the Prisoner and another toon will just take his place as "overpowered". In this case it was the Blue bat (or maybe Death Dog, can't remember which). Yes - the Prisoner is more powerful as he affects all passives, but Immunity and the Trolls shield are probably two of the most critical passives in the game and they are eliminated with Siege. Nerfing the Prisoner too much simply passes the buck.

I'm glad you have had the touch of it so you see how that works against op combos :p siege is powerfull as hell, but those creatures gladly die and don't deal that much dmg or make you suffer 2 turns (could be made 1 turn and a chance of perfects, I don't know.) I don't mind unshielded prisoner too. He loves to die as well.

But that combo red troll + prisoner/siege is tough and makes you wanna own one when not owning a prisoner/siege. That's why no passives arena would brought up skills and not passives, and a whole new teams would emerge (with a green robot and axis commander on top)

[ToTameAGame]

People are still climbing hard and fast (Jofer16 just came outta nowhere and bumped Nicko outta 1st).

Sherlock to the rescue - let's try to find out why Jofer16 is up there:

- Lack of sleep - highly likely
- Tons of ironite - a must
- Something else I can't quite figure out - something toon - something OP

I had fights he stunned one of my toons every hit for another 2 turns - on top of making any passive useless. If a prisoner team with certain combos goes first - loss - if they go second you might stand a chance if your talismans trigger

How many in the top 25 have a Prisoner? How many in the top 10 have an OP combo.

Over night I have been attacked more than 40 times. My defense is getting more and more beaten as people learn - of course they do - they are not stupid. With my free SoW I was able to climb just above the points I left it last night - and got revenged straigth away loosing all progress and having 0 SoW left. I get attacked often from people with a Prisoner. If I would revenge them I have a 50:50 chance to win. So that would be risking sinking deeper.

Of course you get attacked more without a Prisoner as you are an easier target.

The chance to get a Prisoner is very very low. I normally end up just getting more Gunner Rockets. Damn they are useful and they have the only power that triggers beginning round 2. So you don't get an extra power point if you start. But a round 2 I normally don't see against Prisoner&Co. Taunt, Taunt, Stun, Stun, Stun - finished

But I figured it out now:

PvP = Prisoner vs Peasants

[Mizrael]

Yeah! Sometimes i feel like Sparton is playing a different game. Everything works perfectly fine in his world while i can't even make it over 1700 points. and i do play alot and i do win alot. But every morning im back at 1500pts. Making a statistic based on one guy who went berserk and spends all his time and ironite to get a gunner posessed rocket is just wrong...

[konstifik]

Ha... I've been attacked six (6) times. In total. Since PvP rolled out. Sure, I'm not as active as some other players as I do have a real life to attend too, but still... In the Beta stage, I would get attacked a ton no matter my own activity. So you know, I'm happy :)

[Caretaker]

-350 points this morning. I hope you have a good nap western hemisphere :)

As I was getting ready for work I was thinking about what I've said and came up with a few cutthroats that go together.
1) Prisoners passive negates all passives, for your team as well. That would render red troll out of that combo.
2) Siege passive reduces duration of all effects, good and bad, on both teams by 1 each round.

So if you take those creatures, live with them.
And now you can start crying.

[Chernobog3]

Haven't chimed in yet. Some thoughts on PvP, forgive me if I will surely repeat earlier points made.

Aesthetically, it looks great. Almost like an epic battle of the bands is going to take place. Or like something out of Brutal Legend. Runs pretty good on my device, too.

What is the point of tracking Defense? To fight lower ranked people for cheap easy points or to be reminded how many people kicked my ass while I couldn't do anything? It's almost impossible to Defend, short of super new players getting confused or you get lucky. I've got a few, but that's it. Manual playing with buffs is going to beat automated AI almost all the time when the powers are even passably equivalent. I might not mind so much except one loses ranking in Defense losses... it's sort of a, 'well, I'm not actively playing. Just write me a story and tell me how I did'. There's a weird helpless disconnect with it.

Hrm... Prisoner is kind of a big deal, isn't he? I've got him and I can't see myself ever not using him. I know he's a bit rare but he's quite the advantage. Unfortunately, he makes for a homogeneous strategy. You don't have to look hard to see long strings of the same obviously strong minions being used. Honestly, I would just disable Passives for this mode and save the trouble. Of course, if his passive were nerfed, he'd be relatively useless as he doesn't do a whole lot else notably.

There's a LOT of front loading strategies out there. Luck of the draw can make a good bit of difference, although I'm not sure anything could be done about that.

I understand rewards will be better later, correct? Right now... meh, it's hardly worth. Coin acquisition is low and the best rank prizes will be held for an obsessed few. I'm not honestly sure it's worth the time, alongside all the other grinding I need to do daily.

I enjoy that losing your team's Eddie does not end the match. That would have been so broken, ha ha.

All in all, it's a decent idea, but it lacks in diversity and reward for the effort. I hate to say it, but it's a little boring. At least PVE I can safely auto farm while watching something else.

[Caretaker]

Wait untill the refresh on saturday/sunday to realize that if nothing changes it is not worht your time and money to compete. Congratulate all on their 'luck' with summoning and in a year or so when you get yours come back and claim prizes.

[Rygone]

With this update I don't see the daily rewards pop up screen anymore. :/

[Hypnos]

With this update I don't see the daily rewards pop up screen anymore. :/

same here.

[ToTameAGame]

Yeah! Sometimes i feel like Sparton is playing a different game. Everything works perfectly fine in his world while i can't even make it over 1700 points. and i do play alot and i do win alot. But every morning im back at 1500pts. Making a statistic based on one guy who went berserk and spends all his time and ironite to get a gunner posessed rocket is just wrong...

The berserk guy also gets a magus Golden Son - don't forget there is a legendary soul in the first price!

[ToTameAGame]

same here.

Close the app before the daily swap happens and start it after that again - works for me.

Rainmaker after the nerf still good?

[scott-5496]

Yeah, I do not think I have seen the rewards screen either come to think of it! Not sure if we are getting rewards or not though as I have had that before where you get the reward but no notification of it? I am sure it will be a quick fix if it is broken.

[Hypnos]

Rainmaker after the nerf still good?
Still better than he used to be. Fervor is doing really good damage however I believe the damage charge bug is causing it to be a charged attack every time meaning it will probably do even less damage when a fix is introduced. Execute (fury) got a nerf too but I never used it in PvP.

I had him in my defence team before the update and my defence held rate was pretty high. Now it's not so impressive but he's still a great asset in my offensive team when equipped with a red troll.

[slauki]

i really dislike that the game forces us to auto draw if a fight lasts too long. why is there no option to decide on our own if we want to draw or not after
a number of rounds. simply ask again in 10 or 20 rounds till a player decides to quit.

that would be the better way imo.

[ToTameAGame]

Using a Prisoner gives a accuracy penalty for 2 rounds for the Prisoner team - even that should help a lot against : taunt, stun, taunt, taunt, stun, finish

[BillLion]

Ha... I've been attacked six (6) times. In total. Since PvP rolled out. Sure, I'm not as active as some other players as I do have a real life to attend too, but still... In the Beta stage, I would get attacked a ton no matter my own activity. So you know, I'm happy :)


-2500 points this morning. I hope you have a good nap western hemisphere :)



This points out the disparity. As one who falls on the heavily attacked side I can relate to caretaker. Six times? I put that game down for an hour and come back and have been attacked that many times (no exaggeration).



Only rewarding 25 out of thousands of players seems very harsh. Sid-2370

Absolutely! I mentioned the prizes earlier, but it's crazy. Only the top 25 prizes are worth spending any ironite on -and even then that's only to a point since you're guaranteed a chance at character(s) not an actual one. Hard to see this monetize well.

I do have what I believe to be an excellent suggestion if you do want to cut trophy losses on defense. Allow rank to change as battles dictate, but do not allow players to go back in trophies tiers each cycle.

I'd imagine the reason for trophies is to make sure people aren't rewarded for no or minimal participation. Great -my solution works. Then you just fight over rank. Not nearly as demotivating and people can still get their prizes. (In PVP Beta, people over rank 26 and higher failed to achieve the rank 100 prizes EVERY time).

I've carried on enough already so I've said all I'm going to say for now. This is a very frustrating experience for me personally, so I'm changing my commitment to PVP until some changes are made. There is simply no way to compete when I drop I went from rank 40 a day or so ago to ranking in the 500s while staying engaged.

That said -BEWARE that I'll still be revenging as many of you fools as I'm allowed to! ;)

[Caretaker]

Sorry mate, my coffe obviously didn't kick in and I missed a zero. 250 was ment, but now as I do my math.. from 2100 to 17xx, cca 350 is the right number from 30+ attacks. I'll go correct myself

[Chaosego888]

Close the app before the daily swap happens and start it after that again - works for me.

Rainmaker after the nerf still good?
Yes, his Rainmaker is still good... As it should be. I have yet to win going second and yet to lose going first

[Digitalblaze]

So we waited this long for absolute crap...its honestly not fair pvp has no skill merit its just who ever is
duel-wielding visa cards can pay to win nothing more....and after playing this game since 2 weeks after launch its in a worse state then its ever been...bugs not fixed minimal feedback or support from devs just more pay 2 win options available in store NOW...its a sad state of affairs and it'll be a long the coming before any real fix the way its looking.. no new content just rehashed crap sold @ top dollar

[Sparton_LOTB]

Are revived characters supposed to bring back their first-turn passives with them? I fought a team with GRE and every time he revived his ally warrior Troll, the shields would be brought back. This was rather annoying to deal with and doesn't seem fair. I've also experienced revived AOFs activating their First Blood passive if they kill one of my allies, even though the enemy team clearly already experienced the death of one of its own, which SHOULD negate the AOF passive. :confused:

Hm... no, that is not supposed to happen. Possibly a knock-on to fixing a bug where revived characters passives wouldn't work at all (when they were things like Block, Siege, Alchemy, etc). I'll pass that along to be investigated.


I do have what I believe to be an excellent suggestion if you do want to cut trophy losses on defense. Allow rank to change as battles dictate, but do not allow players to go back in trophies tiers each cycle.

If these first three days are any indication, all that would result in is people playing a bit to get to the last non-rank reward tier then just cooling their jets for the entire week. If this is what people can do in half a week with no extra points from previous week placement post-reset, imagine what people are going to do with a full week to get points under their belt and when they start that week a few hundred points above 1000.

I get that a lot of people are worried about jockeying for position and getting top prizes right out of the gate... but the PVP system is designed to allow for progressing from week to week, not hitting the same amount of VP every weekly reset. If we see that there are way more competitors for the top divisions, we will make adjustments (either to the size of some divisions, to the rewards in others, or for rewards purchasable with iron coins), but to my eyes, the trajectories for filling up the rank-based divisions (all 7 of them) are along the lines of what I was expecting at release of worldwide.

[Caretaker]

Too much hundreds above 1000.

[tex-0775]

Thanks for (finally...) giving me something else to do besides grinding ;-) Now I also get all the talk about certain chars. I've been wondering how matchup is being calculated, I thought I sucked at this but apparently I showed up on the attack list for the top players. I just got hammered by the top 3. Good fun though and I got to see their team, with these much talked about chars in action.

These chars reminds of the time when Porche 911 entered the racing circus. It didn't take long before they got the boot and had to make their own tournament....hint ;-)

tex \../ - - \../

[HomemLivre]

Too much hundreds above 1000.

Thats a little difference between 1100 and 1900, but looks like devs cant see it...or worse, they see and want it.
Imagine like Sparton said, Imagine HOW MUCH Ironite was wasted for the top players reach their actual ranks... looks like that was intended and they want it.
Pay to play all the way.

[Nekroliun]

Thats a little difference between 1100 and 1900, but looks like devs cant see it...or worse, they see and want it.
Imagine like Sparton said, Imagine HOW MUCH Ironite was wasted for the top players reach their actual ranks... looks like that was intended and they want it.
Pay to play all the way.

That is likely true, while the devs are fixing issues to make it easy for players who dont pay alot or for f2players, im pretty sure that they would want the players to pay more to get more, its how these kindsof games work, its possible as f2p, but if ur a whale, its pretty much no effort and u beat life, and as u said, its probably intended

[Caretaker]

Yes, but instead of making it attractive and reachable, attack lists are set to make you suffer, overpay and grind. Today I had an hour discussion with myself to pay 12 bucks for 100 fights (after beeing a non paying player forever), 'because the lack of ironite from secret locations (I remeber days every sl had must drop ironite) and after viewing lists I saw it wouldn't cut it for where I want to be so I didn't. I'll show it all tomorow, after few more screenshots of what has already been told. Lists are set to suck, khm, stuck and need to change

[Bradata]

I am losing second or third battle because game freezes before the opposite team starts the fight and I have to force close the game in order to play again. Not nice devs!

[Caretaker]

That's new. Check connection, try reinstalling. Hope you don't jinx it to all.

[Bradata]

That's new. Check connection, try reinstalling. Hope you don't jinx it to all.

I did, man. I even gave it a few minutes but no luck. It's the same when sometimes you are testing your defense and it hangs, happens exactly the same way.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I am losing second or third battle because game freezes before the opposite team starts the fight and I have to force close the game in order to play again. Not nice devs!

Do you mean while the loading screen is still up and combat hasn't loaded yet?

[Bradata]

Do you mean while the loading screen is still up and combat hasn't loaded yet?

No, both teams are staring at each other and nothing happens, same as in when testing defense.

[Sparton_LOTB]

No, both teams are staring at each other and nothing happens, same as in when testing defense.

If you could pass along your team/talisman setup (PM to me if you don't want to post it for the world), plus what you can glean of your opponents, that might help with us tracking this down.

That said, I've passed along what you have said, so thanks for the info.

[R1ck]

Yes, but instead of making it attractive and reachable, attack lists are set to make you suffer, overpay and grind. Today I had an hour discussion with myself to pay 12 bucks for 100 fights (after beeing a non paying player forever), 'because the lack of ironite from secret locations (I remeber days every sl had must drop ironite) and after viewing lists I saw it wouldn't cut it for where I want to be so I didn't. I'll show it all tomorow, after few more screenshots of what has already been told. Lists are set to suck, khm, stuck and need to change

That is true about secret locations, they are not droping ironites as they used to before the update.

Also, an update about ranks in attack list is a must immediately, every refresh i have only one opponent with more points than me.
Also it would be good to have the points of the opponent in revenge tab, to check if it is worth to revenge someone, In my case I wouldn't revenge someone with less points and waste a revenge option, now that we have only 20 per day.

[HomemLivre]

I really try to understand the logics that devs are using to nerf some chars... but I simply cant...

Prisoner:
- Vengeance:
True Damage;
Transfer Negative Effects to the Enemy;
------45% Chance to Stun for TWO turns------


Assassin Troll:
- Fervor:
True Damage;
Chance to Charge on Perfects (does not work since ever)


They simply nerf the trolls damage to be equivalent to the Prisoner... wheres the logic in doing this?
Its really hard to understand the devs porpuse...

[Hypnos]

That is true about secret locations, they are not droping ironites as they used to before the update.

since what update? I have been getting 15x's and the likes these past few days so don't think there's any reason to suggest there's been any change in drop rates.

[Hypnos]

I really try to understand the logics that devs are using to nerf some chars... but I simply cant...

Prisoner:
- Vengeance:
True Damage;
Transfer Negative Effects to the Enemy;
------45% Chance to Stun for TWO turns------


Assassin Troll:
- Fervor:
True Damage;
Chance to Charge on Perfects (does not work since ever)


They simply nerf the trolls damage to be equivalent to the Prisoner... wheres the logic in doing this?
Its really hard to understand the devs porpuse...

I believe they nerfed fervor because rainmaker had recently acquired that move and was doing crazy damage with it.

Think about it, if they make an anti-prisoner character then that character will be the new sought out and most commonly used character. What they are doing I understand are waiting for brave new world where they are going to introduce new talismans which will change some aspects of battling. Hopefully this will put an end to the prisoner's OPness.

[HomemLivre]

I believe they nerfed fervor because rainmaker had recently acquired that move and was doing crazy damage with it.

Think about it, if they make an anti-prisoner character then that character will be the new sought out and most commonly used character. What they are doing I understand are waiting for brave new world where they are going to introduce new talismans which will change some aspects of battling. Hopefully this will put an end to the prisoner's OPness.

I understand what your talking in here and it makes sense. Imo any char diserve his nemesis or something like that, in this specifc case, the Troll or Rainmaker Eddie are both made of glass and the prisoner are a sort of battle tank by itself.
Assassins and gunners have different purposes and dont need to have the same damage output when his skills are so different (one op, other useless).

And how much time to Brave New World, a month, an year? Who knows? We need to focus on the present time and nerf glass chars are not the answer.

[Tritium]

Am I incredibly unlucky or is Game of Death Madness no longer rewarding blue xp runes? In 250+ SoT spent (enough to have used all of my troopers already), I haven't received a SINGLE blue xp rune from it. Considering how those are precisely the xp runes I need most right now, this sucks pretty badly.

[IceManFerrar]

I sometimes have better luck just grinding through all the Underworld levels, especially the first few ones (Road of ruin, etc)

[Kutte]

@Tritium:
must be bad luck. i collected several 3-4* blue XP runes today

[Tritium]

Thanks for confirming that they still drop, guys. I'll have to fix my bad luck with a couple of sacrifices to RNGesus.

[Chernobog3]

Hrmmm... do daily achievements have to involve Arena? Honestly, I'm not feeling this at all. Nothing about this mode is really fun, rewarding, or interesting (beyond the graphics). I'm not a huge pvp person to begin and to be forced to do it to finish my daily pointlessly scuffling with random other players is making me think it's time to consider hanging this game up.

[Patrice-1201]

What annoys me the most is the way the AI works in PVP, for instance last night I have a 21 Wins streak before going to bed and as I woke up I had 17 losses on Revenge... basically it is an AI issue because I get my wins even if I start second with a Prisoner against me but as soon as the game plays for me, I loose and loose about 1000 points.

[ToTameAGame]

3rd fight in a row I won - came back to the main screen and have less points than before - I am going backwards winning fights because my full skillsharded defense gets broken and broken and broken

meanwhile the owners of the Prisoner fill up the top ranks more and more and more - it's pathetic

I repeat myself:

PvP = Prisoner vs Peasants

If you own one - go for it - if you don't spend your money on something you actually might enjoy and does not end in pure frustration. WIthout a Prisoner not even Pay to Win is possible.

I am still waiting for the statistic:

- How many of the top 25 have a Prisoner?
- How many of the top 10 have an OP combo?

[Nicko]

3rd fight in a row I won - came back to the main screen and have less points than before - I am going backwards winning fights because my full skillsharded defense gets broken and broken and broken

meanwhile the owners of the Prisoner fill up the top ranks more and more and more - it's pathetic

I repeat myself:

PvP = Prisoner vs Peasants

If you own one - go for it - if you don't spend your money on something you actually might enjoy and does not end in pure frustration. WIthout a Prisoner not even Pay to Win is possible.

I am still waiting for the statistic:

- How many of the top 25 have a Prisoner?
- How many of the top 10 have an OP combo?

Only an idiot would argue PvP is not easier with a Prisoner. I definitely agree with you that it is.

With that being said, right now two of the top five players don't have one.

Point being - it can be done. Time and Ironite are the more critical issues

[PerthEddie]

Point being - it can be done. Time and Ironite are the more critical issues

Does that not indicate that the game really has become pay 2 win then? :(

[ToTameAGame]

Only an idiot would argue PvP is not easier with a Prisoner. I definitely agree with you that it is.

With that being said, right now two of the top five players don't have one.

Point being - it can be done. Time and Ironite are the more critical issues

It's not just the offense - it's the defense as well. What is your percentage of "defense held"? How many times did you get attacked in the last 2 hours? I got something like 25-30 attacks (including people revenge) and the defense held 5 times.

You with your Prisoner probably blazing through the wins in about a minute - IF I go first against a Prisoner team I win once in a while but it takes me about 5-10 minutes to grind that team down. The thing is OP as fuck.

Just for fun go one week without your Prisoner and than we talk again. Try it and tell me how the feeling is when you are winning over 90 % of your fights and still going nowhere or backwards. Is "easier" really doesn't get to the point.

I have fights my device goes blank (screensaver) because I don't even get a shot: taunt, taunt, stun (2 f*cking turns!), taunt, stun, (switch device back on) taunt, taunt, stun -> over ... sure because immunity does not work when I go second.

P.S: Just writing the answer I got attacked 2 more times by Prisoner teams - more points down and I can't even revenge anymore. So very easy points for them.

[Killhouse]

I was lucky enough to be in the beta, played for the first 3 weeks and finished 1st, and top 5 the other two weeks. It was fun but as people got used to it it became a slugfest against the prisoner. I gave up. Not having one myself, it was a time sink that rewarded you with little to nothing by the end of the week. Ooh, extra souls that 95% of the time turn into dupes, irontite to buy souls, which turn into more dules. Nothing's changed.

There's an 11page discussion on the prisoner, how imbalanced he is in pvp and nothing was done. They fixed the talisman bug, nerfed the warrior bat, sentinel bot, and others. Yet prisoner remains. Yes the warrior troll should be fixed but there are multiple counters. Even the magus bat and death dog have similar Passives as the prisoner but not nearly as good. Besides, they as well have multiple counters too. Prisoner is countered by prisoner. Yes, you can beat the prisoner without one but you cannot consistently do it without luck on your side. You need luck to have received one and if not, too bad so sad. Promises of possible fixes with brave new world talismans coming out. When is that? Weeks after prisoner owners continue to dominate Pvp?

I won't be attempting competitive pvp after the reset, it's not fun when 7 of 10 teams in your attack list have prisoners. Then after resetting the list, you get 8 of the same people . This was explained as a limitation due to player base in the beta... now live it's just as bad seeing the same names over and over. If you want to climb the ladder, you can't risk the luck involved with playing those teams. I'm sure they don't wake up to 22+ attacks after 6 hours.

I'm up to 220 +attacks against my team, 22% hold, I'm curious to see prisoner players numbers.

Anyways, after today, be sure to attack my team for easy points. Pvp isn't worth the time investment when there are such large imbalances.

[ToTameAGame]

I was lucky enough to be in the beta, played for the first 3 weeks and finished 1st, and top 5 the other two weeks. It was fun but as people got used to it it became a slugfest against the prisoner. I gave up. Not having one myself, it was a time sink that rewarded you with little to nothing by the end of the week. Ooh, extra souls that 95% of the time turn into dupes, irontite to buy souls, which turn into more dules. Nothing's changed.

There's an 11page discussion on the prisoner, how imbalanced he is in pvp and nothing was done. They fixed the talisman bug, nerfed the warrior bat, sentinel bot, and others. Yet prisoner remains. Yes the warrior troll should be fixed but there are multiple counters. Even the magus bat and death dog have similar Passives as the prisoner but not nearly as good. Besides, they as well have multiple counters too. Prisoner is countered by prisoner. Yes, you can beat the prisoner without one but you cannot consistently do it without luck on your side. You need luck to have received one and if not, too bad so sad. Promises of possible fixes with brave new world talismans coming out. When is that? Weeks after prisoner owners continue to dominate Pvp?

I won't be attempting competitive pvp after the reset, it's not fun when 7 of 10 teams in your attack list have prisoners. Then after resetting the list, you get 8 of the same people . This was explained as a limitation due to player base in the beta... now live it's just as bad seeing the same names over and over. If you want to climb the ladder, you can't risk the luck involved with playing those teams. I'm sure they don't wake up to 22+ attacks after 6 hours.

I'm up to 220 +attacks against my team, 22% hold, I'm curious to see prisoner players numbers.

Anyways, after today, be sure to attack my team for easy points. Pvp isn't worth the time investment when there are such large imbalances.

I remember that! It was before people figured out that they can launch a freeze festival with a Prisoner in their team. But that only lasted a couple of weeks or so. You probably have the right idea there - just not giving a shit anymore about PvP - play for the free coins and let it be "Prisoner vs Prisoner"

[Silentknight]

Only an idiot would argue PvP is not easier with a Prisoner. I definitely agree with you that it is.

With that being said, right now two of the top five players don't have one.

Point being - it can be done. Time and Ironite are the more critical issues

Watching Caretakerii go from 25+ to 14th, no Prisoner! Arena always has been pay to win! All u have to do is pump in ironite & attack weaker teams, it's not rocket science. I think Nicko,Demoonchild should put ur A++ teams back in there...give em something to really whine about

[ToTameAGame]

Watching Caretakerii go from 25+ to 14th, no Prisoner! Arena always has been pay to win! All u have to do is pump in ironite & attack weaker teams, it's not rocket science. I think Nicko,Demoonchild should put ur A++ teams back in there...give em something to really whine about

Easy to talk down from the Ivory Tower isn't it? How about you take your Prisoner off for a week?

Please tell me Mr. "Attack Weaker Teams" how to do that if at a certain level 80 percent have Prisoners in their setup?

I'm not blind and can see myself that there are a few in the top ranks without a Prisoner. But the majority has one. But apparently that is not an indicator of OP - it's just whining peasants in the ears of the kings.

[Silentknight]

Easy to talk down from the Ivory Tower isn't it? How about you take your Prisoner off for a week?

Please tell me Mr. "Attack Weaker Teams" how to do that if at a certain level 80 percent have Prisoners in their setup?

I'm not blind and can see myself that there are a few in the top ranks without a Prisoner. But the majority has one. But apparently that is not an indicator of OP - it's just whining peasants in the ears of the kings.

I don't attack weaker teams repeatedly... just ask Nicko,Sag etc

[ToTameAGame]

I don't attack weaker teams repeatedly... just ask Nicko,Sag etc

That is very honorable of you - it still does not solve the problem the Prisoner being OP as fuck for people that don't have one and that he appears far too often in attack lists. Even the infamous Killhouse is tired of him and says he is too much! Consider me as a whiner if you must but he is for sure not a whinging player.

[PS-RagE]

I'd be happy just to have the talismans do something again. What is the point of grinding for them if they have almost no effect?

[Silentknight]

That is very honorable of you - it still does not solve the problem the Prisoner being OP as fuck for people that don't have one and that he appears far too often in attack lists. Even the infamous Killhouse is tired of him and says he is too much! Consider me as a whiner if you must but he is for sure not a whinging player.
Funny but I've played Caretakerii 3-4x today. I have no holds,he has 1. How does he do it???? I'll give u the answer... wait for it....it's called strategy! If u spent as much time experimenting with ur defence as u do whining in the forum I'm sure u'd do better.

[ToTameAGame]

Funny but I've played Caretakerii 3-4x today. I have no holds,he has 1. How does he do it???? I'll give u the answer... wait for it....it's called strategy! If u spent as much time experimenting with ur defence as u do whining in the forum I'm sure u'd do better.

Still - the majority in the top 25 has a Prisoner and that doesn't justify he is massively OP. Or everybody without one must be thick as f*ck.

But I'll do that and take your advice ... would you therefore please shout a prayer to RNGsus to give me the toons to do so? Calling people somewhat "thick to set up" a right strategy is also very easy to do from the Ivory Tower when a few hundred so called rare souls haven't given you the tools to do so. But I'll work on my ox cultists and try to figure out if one or two would be best to accompany my Troll (the only competitive toon I have).

If I wouldn't know how to use strategy I wouldn't beat Prisoner teams once in a while - wouldn't I? But an AoS in a defense team doesn't make a lot of sense as the AI is as stupid as you think I am.

[HomemLivre]

I was lucky enough to be in the beta, played for the first 3 weeks and finished 1st, and top 5 the other two weeks. It was fun but as people got used to it it became a slugfest against the prisoner. I gave up. Not having one myself, it was a time sink that rewarded you with little to nothing by the end of the week. Ooh, extra souls that 95% of the time turn into dupes, irontite to buy souls, which turn into more dules. Nothing's changed.

There's an 11page discussion on the prisoner, how imbalanced he is in pvp and nothing was done. They fixed the talisman bug, nerfed the warrior bat, sentinel bot, and others. Yet prisoner remains. Yes the warrior troll should be fixed but there are multiple counters. Even the magus bat and death dog have similar Passives as the prisoner but not nearly as good. Besides, they as well have multiple counters too. Prisoner is countered by prisoner. Yes, you can beat the prisoner without one but you cannot consistently do it without luck on your side. You need luck to have received one and if not, too bad so sad. Promises of possible fixes with brave new world talismans coming out. When is that? Weeks after prisoner owners continue to dominate Pvp?

I won't be attempting competitive pvp after the reset, it's not fun when 7 of 10 teams in your attack list have prisoners. Then after resetting the list, you get 8 of the same people . This was explained as a limitation due to player base in the beta... now live it's just as bad seeing the same names over and over. If you want to climb the ladder, you can't risk the luck involved with playing those teams. I'm sure they don't wake up to 22+ attacks after 6 hours.

I'm up to 220 +attacks against my team, 22% hold, I'm curious to see prisoner players numbers.

Anyways, after today, be sure to attack my team for easy points. Pvp isn't worth the time investment when there are such large imbalances.

I need to repost this couse I believe that was before this patch a char close to be fair agains the prisoner: the assassin troll

My post:
---------------
Prisoner:
- Vengeance:
True Damage;
Transfer Negative Effects to the Enemy;
------45% Chance to Stun for TWO turns------


Assassin Troll:
- Fervor:
True Damage;
Chance to Charge on Perfects (does not work since ever)


They simply nerf the trolls damage to be equivalent to the Prisoner... wheres the logic in doing this?
Its really hard to understand the devs porpuse...
---------------

I tried to figure out whats the devs porpuse in doing this and I think now I have the aswer: They want this, simple as that. A incredible rare char dropped from a specific and expensive soul. They want the called "rng" to take care of the anxiety to have the so op prisoner in your team. They want money.
The day the arena is full os prisoners they will simply nerf this char as hell and will try to create another object of desire.

Wait for new talis from Brave New World? Make me laugh, we have no idea how much time to be released, and if I were to guess a date, I would not say less than six months (Being optimistic and hoping to be wrong).

[Nicko]

After he won Killhouse wrote a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it may not be.


I will vouch SilentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

[BonFire]

The odd thing is, I must not be using my Prisoner right, he can't hit worth a damn, and I've rarely encountered other Prisoners in PVP. But my team is consistantly beaten by Grim Reaper Eddie, Angel of Fear, Allied Soldiers, and the Trolls. So I'm doing something wrong if I'm not in the top right?

[Silentknight]

After he won Killhouse write a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it maynot be.


I will vouch SikentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)
LMAO,sry! Stupid point system where u get 12 pts for someone 100 or 1500 pts less than u

[ToTameAGame]

After he won Killhouse write a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it maynot be.


I will vouch SikentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

IF I see GMAC in my attack list for the final few hours I will loose on purpose (not that I have much choice anyway - if I go first maybe) - better him than any of the Prisoner cheats.

[Silentknight]

The odd thing is, I must not be using my Prisoner right, he can't hit worth a damn, and I've rarely encountered other Prisoners in PVP. But my team is consistantly beaten by Grim Reaper Eddie, Angel of Fear, Allied Soldiers, and the Trolls. So I'm doing something wrong if I'm not in the top right?

No, I don't consider him 2 b op. It's his passive which makes him elite.

[Nicko]

LMAO,sry! Stupid point system where u get 12 pts for someone 100 or 1500 pts less than u

No worries! I was just validating your point! You're not just preying on weaker teams.

[Silentknight]

IF I see GMAC in my attack list for the final few hours I will loose on purpose (not that I have much choice anyway - if I go first maybe) - better him than any of the Prisoner cheats.

Still whining!!!

[Silentknight]

No worries! I was just validating your point! You're not just preying on weaker teams.

No, I like the challenge. Also like being around 10th... where the action is!

[ToTameAGame]

The odd thing is, I must not be using my Prisoner right, he can't hit worth a damn, and I've rarely encountered other Prisoners in PVP. But my team is consistantly beaten by Grim Reaper Eddie, Angel of Fear, Allied Soldiers, and the Trolls. So I'm doing something wrong if I'm not in the top right?

It might help a bit if you would share the toons you have available. If you take a knife to a gunfight - you might do something wrong. If you don't have the toons for competing - don't worry and just collect iron coins for skillshards and souls.

One of the main things is skillshards. Without proper toons fully or decent skillsharded you won't have much fun above 2000 points. Even with fully skillsharded toons it's not easy.

The Prisoner doesn't need to hit hard. He voids any passive and stuns quite often for 2 turns. So if you are lucky enough to have one he is a must on your team right now.

[ToTameAGame]

Still whining!!!

Still not trying without your OP toon! Come on be a sport and take him off your team for the last few hours and for the next week. I dare you.

[BonFire]

No, I don't consider him 2 b op. It's his passive which makes him elite.

Considering the passives he does block that save my skin, I think it's a fair shake. Angel of Fear resetting a turn once it kills something, Troll shields, Bomber Boy raised defenses. Of course, come to think of it, Prisoner's passive is the only one I use. I really should level up my troll some time.

[BonFire]

It might help a bit if you would share the toons you have available. If you take a knife to a gunfight - you might do something wrong. If you don't have the toons for competing - don't worry and just collect iron coins for skillshards and souls.

One of the main things is skillshards. Without proper toons fully or decent skillsharded you won't have much fun above 2000 points. Even with fully skillsharded toons it's not easy.

The Prisoner doesn't need to hit hard. He voids any passive and stuns quite often for 2 turns. So if you are lucky enough to have one he is a must on your team right now.

Generally, I don't worry about the arena, just try to save for skill points, but yeah, my team isn't really viable for anything. Eddie, Masked Harpy, Golden Sun Warrior, and Prisoner. I'd try give some skill shards to something else, but I'm also trying to save them for a Rainmaker Eddie, because he's fun to use.

[ToTameAGame]

Generally, I don't worry about the arena, just try to save for skill points, but yeah, my team isn't really viable for anything. Eddie, Masked Harpy, Golden Sun Warrior, and Prisoner. I'd try give some skill shards to something else, but I'm also trying to save them for a Rainmaker Eddie, because he's fun to use.

Good choice to save your skill shards for now ;)

[BonFire]

Good choice to save your skill shards for now ;)

Heheh yeah. Think by the time he finally drops for me, I'll have 31. I have 7 so far. So, I'm kinda being more optimistic than realistic haha.

[Silentknight]

Still not trying without your OP toon! Come on be a sport and take him off your team for the last few hours and for the next week. I dare you.

Didn't even use him 1st 2 weeks of arena. Only started to counter the Warrior Trolls. Finished 4th & 11th I think. I just lost 3 in a row to The Educated Fool, his SSD combined with CG & op Grim Reaper piss me off to no end! Maybe I should start a post to whine about it! Ur depressing! Better things to do than read ur shit. Maybe I'll go attack some Prisoner bashers. LMAO!!!

[ToTameAGame]

Didn't even use him 1st 2 weeks of arena... Better things to do than read ur shit.

Nobody used him back in these days! What an achievement!

So you are taking it off your defense? At least you are not a coward! Good boy!

[Caretaker]

Watching Caretakerii go from 25+ to 14th, no Prisoner! Arena always has been pay to win! All u have to do is pump in ironite & attack weaker teams, it's not rocket science. I think Nicko,Demoonchild should put ur A++ teams back in there...give em something to really whine about

You can watch :) I dont have the ironite for that grind you are writing about. But it was days double work while normal people with good teams can enjoy life. That means killing trolled prisoners/bats and fighting taunters, stunners bla bla. You'll see when I post it.
5:2 for Nicko now.
A++ combos you mention also contain prisoners.

[ToTameAGame]

You can watch :) I dont have the ironite for that grind you are writing about. But it was days double work while normal people with good teams can enjoy life. That means killing trolled prisoners/bats and fighting taunters, stunners bla bla. You'll see when I post it.
5:2 for Nicko now.
A++ combos you mention also contain prisoners.

According to the NotSoSIlentKnight if it is that hard work you must do something wrong with your strategy. I wonder if he really is Canadian - he argues more Trump-ish - if he doens't like where the argument is going he switches topic or calls others whiners or to thick to play the game (withou knowing about the situation).

Be careful when you post about it - the knight in the high castle might call it alternative fake post!

[Nicko]

You can watch :) I dont have the ironite for that grind you are writing about. But it was days double work while normal people with good teams can enjoy life. That means killing trolled prisoners/bats and fighting taunters, stunners bla bla. You'll see when I post it.
5:2 for Nicko now.
A++ combos you mention also contain prisoners.

I don't think I've beaten you five times. I do see I've held you three out of the last four - but that's not five 😉

I swapped out my Corrupt General for a Souless Demon and people seem to be struggling more with it - probably cause its new. Normally I don't hold you this much

[Nicko]

And I don't know what's more entertaining today - the thrill of the GMAC-Jofer16 battle or the ToTameAGame/SilentKnight conversation ;)

[Tritium]

PVP truly requires skillshards. I'm bummed that the fun team combos I come up with get smashed due to trying toons that currently have no skillshards. Wish I had a good pile of those things so I could test new teams without the issue of them hitting like babies armed with rubber chickens. :rolleyes:

[ToTameAGame]

the thrill of the GMAC-Jofer16 battle

I wish they would stream that live on a split screen! Would be definitely better than the shit they show on TV these days ...

[Nicko]

I wish they would stream that live on a split screen! Would be definitely better than the shit they show on TV these days ...

The sad thing is I'd probably have it on! :D

[Nicko]

PVP truly requires skillshards. I'm bummed that the fun team combos I come up with get smashed due to trying toons that currently have no skillshards. Wish I had a good pile of those things so I could test new teams without the issue of them hitting like babies armed with rubber chickens. :rolleyes:

They can make a significant difference. At least with PvP you can buy one a week in the shop and if you have solid Troopers that's another 3 each week.

[ToTameAGame]

The sad thing is I'd probably have it on! :D

I wouldn't blame you - TV is terrible these days. I don't watch a lot but whenever I do I have the feeling somebody tries to put a brain slug (Futurama) on my head.

[Nicko]

GMAC now number 1!

It's going to be a LONG 3 1/2 hours for those two :p

[slauki]

so we have the third discussion thread about the prisoner now...isn't this strange...might this toon maybe cause some serious trouble?

i have said everything i wanted to say to this topic, so i won't repeat it. only one theoretical argument/repetition:

if you have a strategy which cannot be coutered, that is OP by definition, period. and prisoner allows you 20 strategies which cannot be countered when going 2nd (and not even talking about his offense qualities...) so this is clearly wrong from a strategic perspective. even if you have one you cannot fully counter him.
siege is also a problem, if don't have a prisoner, because same applies to a much smaller degree.

so something has to be done soon about both issues. waiting for BNW in 2 months isn't a proper solution. other toons goot adjusted too (rightfully) why not the most OP toon? really curious about it.

If he just wouldn't remove immunity things would be fine, but he takes everything you need to survive. that's way too OP.

yeah, some might gt into top 10 even without the prisoner, but it will cost them at least twice as much resources as someone without him. that's really not an argument, that other can make it too, when 80% of all top 25 player have him.

[BonFire]

And I don't know what's more entertaining today - the thrill of the GMAC-Jofer16 battle or the ToTameAGame/SilentKnight conversation ;)

Guess, I'll have to root for Jofer. he's on my trooper list.

[Nekroliun]

Yea, scratch what i said earlier abou hoe "pvp is the most fun ive ever head!", cuz its the most shit rage inducing thing that i ever stumbled upon, ignoring the prisoner (cuz he doesnt seem like a problem to me since my team barely has passives, only thrill and impct (and impact negates thrill)), the main problem i have is that how i go second 70% of the tome, which 90% of the time means opponent won due to the death of blue soldier/nomad/golden son....

Its just annoying how going first is just so game defining! Imo, whoever goes second should get some kind of buff. Like in hearthstone, where second gets a coin and an extra card...


U may say that im just a salty guy who lost a couple of matches, and yes, that is true

[ToTameAGame]

Guess, I'll have to root for Jofer. he's on my trooper list.

Pffff - GO gmac!

You are number 1 and not number 6! You don't have a prisoner - you play with FREE MEN!

[ToTameAGame]

Yea, scratch what i said earlier abou hoe "pvp is the most fun ive ever head!", cuz its the most shit rage inducing thing that i ever stumbled upon, ignoring the prisoner (cuz he doesnt seem like a problem to me since my team barely has passives, only thrill and impct (and impact negates thrill)), the main problem i have is that how i go second 70% of the tome, which 90% of the time means opponent won due to the death of blue soldier/nomad/golden son....

Its just annoying how going first is just so game defining! Imo, whoever goes second should get some kind of buff. Like in hearthstone, where second gets a coin and an extra card...

Trust me on this one: Going second is normally not a problem - all you need is a lot of green. Basically you need to prepare your team that it can take the first hit - you will figure it out. Once you've done that you also will start to hate Chuck "The Prisoner" Norris because going 2nd in this case is quite often definitely a loss.

[Nicko]

so we have the third discussion thread about the prisoner now...isn't this strange...might this toon maybe cause some serious trouble?

i have said everything i wanted to say to this topic, so i won't repeat it. only one theoretical argument/repetition:

if you have a strategy which cannot be coutered, that is OP by definition, period. and prisoner allows you 20 strategies which cannot be countered when going 2nd (and not even talking about his offense qualities...) so this is clearly wrong from a strategic perspective. even if you have one you cannot fully counter him.
siege is also a problem, if don't have a prisoner, because same applies to a much smaller degree.

so something has to be done soon about both issues. waiting for BNW in 2 months isn't a proper solution. other toons goot adjusted too (rightfully) why not the most OP toon? really curious about it.

If he just wouldn't remove immunity things would be fine, but he takes everything you need to survive. that's way too OP.

yeah, some might gt into top 10 even without the prisoner, but it will cost them at least twice as much resources as someone without him. that's really not an argument, that other can make it too, when 80% of all top 25 player have him.

I've been watching the GMAC/Jofer16 battle and to say the guy without a Prisoner is having to "outspend" the guy with a Prisoner is not giving GMAC enough credit. They're rising at the same rate. Could it be that he's figured out a strategy to "outsmart" the Prisoner?

Perhaps he uses two AoS and one can cast Invincibility continuously. Who knows - and I don't think he should tell us. But point being they've been rising at the same rate all day, so if GMAC was losing a lot more battles he should be rising slower.

I realize he could be just paying to hit refresh to bring up more non-Prisoner teams, but I will say from experience - he attacks me a lot - so I don't think that's what he's doing.

And your math is wrong on the top 25 ;)

[ToTameAGame]

I've been watching the GMAC/Jofer16 battle and to say the guy without a Prisoner is having to "outspend" the guy with a Prisoner is not giving GMAC enough credit. They're rising at the same rate. Could it be that he's figured out a strategy to "outsmart" the Prisoner?

Perhaps he uses two AoS and one can cast Invincibility continuously. Who knows - and I don't think he should tell us. But point being they've been rising at the same rate all day, so if GMAC was losing a lot more battles he should be rising slower.

I realize he could be just paying to hit refresh to bring up more non-Prisoner teams, but I will say from experience - he attacks me a lot - so I don't think that's what he's doing.

And your math is wrong on the top 25 ;)

I still would like to see their defense stats.

[Caretaker]

I don't think I've beaten you five times. I do see I've held you three out of the last four - but that's not five ��

I swapped out my Corrupt General for a Souless Demon and people seem to be struggling more with it - probably cause its new. Normally I don't hold you this much

+1 you revenged. 5:3 now. If you can see it, you don't get too much of attacks. That is sort of the point I'll make. I see you utilized ssd, good, that cg killed your team on voids.

Fight for the top is nice, this bla bla is just spam after points have been made.

[Nicko]

+1 you revenged. 5:3 now. If you can see it, you don't get too much of attacks. That is sort of the point I'll make. I see you utilized ssd, good, that cg killed your team on voids.

Fight for the top is nice, this bla bla is just spam after points have been made.

Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)

[IceManFerrar]

After he won Killhouse wrote a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it may not be.


I will vouch SilentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

Hey Nicko, would you happen to know where Killhouse's write up is? I would love to read that.

And still waiting on that small (ok, BIG) favor which I requested of you via PM. ;)

[ToTameAGame]

Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)

gmac 120 points down now ... would be very intersting now to see who is getting attacked more from other players going for the final push.

[Shaolin85london]

After he won Killhouse wrote a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it may not be.


I will vouch SilentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

Didn't found his strategy comments, where is it?

[BonFire]

Pffff - GO gmac!

You are number 1 and not number 6! You don't have a prisoner - you play with FREE MEN!

Jofer's going all the way! He's nature's beast! Does what he wants and does what he pleases!

[ToTameAGame]

Jofer's going all the way! He's nature's beast! Does what he wants and does what he pleases!

Just after 2 minutes to midnight (GMT) we will know for sure who's name shall be hallowed!