Week 1 of PvP - The Prisoner, Attack Lists, and Pay to Win

[Nicko]

The last few weeks have been very active with PvP discussion. A lot of that has centered on the Prisoner. I’m a Maiden fan first - just happened to stumble on this game and now I’m addicted - but the sense of community with this forum and my Discord group has been half the fun. With that in mind – after some initial reluctance – I decided to share my first week stats. I’ve also summarized the other stats posted so far, as well as those from ShaolinLondo and Slauki (having received their permission)


Prisoner Teams

Nicko

Attack Wins: 99% (367/372)
Defense Wins: 36% (86/238)

SilentKnight

Attack Wins: 86% (160/185)
Defense Wins: 42% (77/185)

EddieV8

Attack Wins: 84% (287/342)
Defense Wins: 17% (47/271)

RCarter

Attack Wins: 88% (159/180)
Defense Wins: 27% (67/240)

Non-Prisoner Teams

ShaolinLondo

Attack Wins: 90% (423/471)
Defense Wins: 22% (45/206)

GMAC

Attack Wins: 89% (568/638)
Defense Wins: 23% (32/141)

CareTaker

Attack Wins: 90% (236/263)
Defense Wins: 30% (92/303)

Browno

Attack Wins: 84% (165/196)
Defense Wins: 35% (100/286)

Ubajoa

Attack Wins: 92% (228/248)
Defense Wins: 26% (86/328)

Slauki

Attack Wins: 97% (126/130)
Defense Wins: 32% (100/308)

CanyptianFit

Attack Wins: 94% (245/260)
Defense Wins: 30% (75/253)

KillHouse

Attack Wins: 91% (387/426)
Defense Wins: 21% (51/245)

Ringe666

Attack Wins: 95% (196/207)
Defense Wins: 30% (103/340)

This then brings some questions for discussion.

1) The role of the Prisoner. I had the best win percentage – but Slauki wasn’t far behind. I also have likely one of the deepest rosters. As Silentknight will tell you – I do attack Prisoner teams (and three of my losses were to him cause that SOB always goes first ;)). Likewise – Browno’s defense was as good as mine. Is the Prisoner not a factor? Is Browno simply a better strategist? I know The Educated Fool told me his Defensive win percentage was about the same as mine. Different approach – his looks really intimidating – but includes a Prisoner.

2) Number of attacks. Why would Caretaker get attacked 303 times – Ubajoa 328 – and GMAC 141? I’m sorry – something is not right. This is a huge deal because attack losses really hurt in the current scoring environment


I hope others chime in with their stats – especially those with a Prisoner. And while I’m at it I have to add that I really appreciate that although we may agree to disagree on certain points – Sparton is often a part of the dialogue. It makes a big difference. Things are occasionally said around here in a not-so-nice way, and he just lets them roll off.

We all want this game to succeed. Hoping these stats help in that quest.

Looking forward to the ensuing discussion

[Aristo4]

Here are my stats...No prisoner, and my Defence team 95% of the time had no siege this week (Tailgunner,Troll,AoF,Assasin Son)
Refilled SoW 3-4 times throughout the week, and ofcourse did regret it and didn't also participate in the last hours before reset, thus rank from around 60 to 400+

2494

My observations based on Nicko's post and what I've seen so far in PVP

- Depending how well built Prisoner teams are, they usually got a greater Def ratio than non-prisoner teams.

- Non prisoner teams on the list have either under 90% attack, or a little above (Ubajoa) but that maybe simply be better game selection and they're avoiding Prisoner teams (like I do).

- Insane amount of attacks done by GMAC and Shaolin to be the only non Prisoner teams to reach top 5 - that's the pay-to-climb part of pvp given both player's 90% attack rates or lower, and 20 sth def ratios, sorry but that was a huge factor.

- Competitive Non Prisoner teams suffered this week about 300 attacks or more.Yet mysteriously Shaolin and GMAC suffered only 206 and 141 while they attacked combined for 1100 attacks...given they're non prisoners and their DEF rate, i'd expect them to have even more attacks suffered than 300. Attacked 640 times and 140 revenged? Sth is not right here, probably BUGGED lists.

- Impressive DEf rates mainly by Browno, Slauki and Caretaker (close to mine :P),given the number of attacks suffered.

- Impressive ATK ratio of Nicko (who of course is a very competent player), will simply loose while attacking every 29th of February (5/372) :P ..I'm really curious to see more player's attack rates having a prisoner.

- My real def ratio would be in reality under 25% with so many newbies repeatedly crushing on me 4 times in a row, yet nicko's I believe was always around 35% even on the limited beta.

- My real attack ratio would also be lower if I was taking on prisoners all day and not newbies in this first week. But no thanks, I usually don't attack prisoners.

- If you don't see how much of an impact a prisoner has on PVP you all need a ophthalmologist. He'll not drive you alone with a bad team, but with the most known mofos like a Troll they make their owners job SO much easier. :p

[Nicko]

Great observations. My highest defense in beta was an insane 62% - it was the week I discovered the crazy DM triggers perfect hit on GS triggers broken Thief/Freeze Talismans freezing entire opposing team and releasing Tailgunners fury. Good times! ��

Certainly a possibility more attacks are required if you don't have a Prisoner. But remember GMAC also had a lot more points than me. Would love to compare to Jofer16. I'll add I probably have one of the deepest rosters in the game. And I vary my team quite a bit based on who I'm attacking, though Troll and Prisoner are almost always there unless I'm attacking another Prisoner team. So that muddies the water a bit with a sample size of one.

The only way we'll truly know is if other players with Prisoners post their stats. And considering we're a highly mysterious secret society, that may or may not happen.

Attack lists? Slauki uncovered a behemoth earlier. Makes no sense. Even if people are reluctant to post their win/losses, knowing how many times they were attacked would be helpful. Cause right now something seems amiss

[Silentknight]

Silentknight (Prisoner) 2764 pts. 10th
Attack-86% 160/185
Much lower than yours as I usually attack higher ranks unless I need to use up SoW before work/sleep. Plus your roster is better & I don't avoid Prisoner teams! Not saying you do.
Defense-42% 77/185
Little higher than yours,not sure why,guess I'm just that good,lmao! Actually I have an idea why but I'm not telling you,lol!
Funny,attack & defense both 185.
Don't know how to post screen shots & can't be bothered. You'll just have to take my word for it.

Can't find your pay to win post so I'll put it here.
I've mentioned that I haven't spent $ on this game. Definitely wasn't bragging. Just making a point that you can have a decent roster w/o spending $. Actually spent $7 Google Play Rewards money so I guess that's something. Bought ironite on sale which was then used on rare soul pack.
And no,I'm not cheap! Been paying child support for 2 girls the last 14 years. Both in university so almost done!
And yes,I'm old! Maiden & video game fan since the beginning.

[CanyptianFit]

I've played religiously everyday since July, so while I hate the RNG, over time I've been lucky I guess to get a great set of toons.

1) if you spend enough time on the game, without spending money, you can eventually get good characters. I don't buy anything with my ironite but sands of time refills. (I've got way more ironite than gmac)

2) the get good QUICK trick is to spend $. And even if you do it's no guarantee. It can take a lot. I've spent some money on the game, considered it a donation. PVP isn't for the faint of heart and really, it's good for the developers as it does add more monetization potential for them. I hope they get more money to help with QA!

Again, after playing for a while I continue to accrue ironite, I guess I'm a hoarder, as I only spend on SOT/SOW.

I was able to get top 25 without draining my ironite stash in the past. So Iron Maiden's vision is realized, but only with lots of my time invested to get toons/talismans/shards, etc. Not sure I can devote the time on Saturdays going forward though to repeat.

1) RE: Prisoner; still a little perplexed that the dev's nerfed some of the prisoner threat characters and left him untouched. They must have a plan?!? Again, I like his passive. Cool for the game (call me a masochist). He's a five star character. If you don't like playing against him, don't play PVP. I don't have him and work strategies to beat him and whatever toons are by his side, It does require work, requires a lot of in-game tactics and critical choices. I go in ready to go second. Couple of my losses were when I assume I'll go first and try to get cute or just got sloppy with my selection, my bad, some losses are where I never got a turn.

2) # of attacks. That data is really telling. Thanks for sharing. The only other potential is that people are afraid to attack their teams? But why would 2 without a prisoner have less attacks? I use the blue Bat. Interested in hearing Spartons reaction to the data.

I had shared my stats before:
Attack wins: 94% (245/260)
Defense wins: 30% (75/253)

I essentially attack from my attack list and the variety there isn't what I would expect given Spartons comments and that it's "world wide live". For the record, i will attack any team, and I never cherry pick. I go against prisoners all day every day and still have 94% win rate.

Right now I have 2052 points. Haven't attacked for some time. So my points are the same since my list refresh.

On my list I have 9 people with points ranging from 1590-1727, with one person at 1997. The names are always the same 30 or so names. Sorry folks if you're there. Something is still not working Sparton.

All in all, PVP is pretty good. The rewards are worth it and many of the earlier bugs are squashed. It's optional. As the masses adapt, it may/will get tougher.

Cheers!

Nicko, you attacked me while I was writing this. I'm coming after you sucka! 😂😂🤡

[slauki]

okay gentleman, i appreciate your fairness, let's see how OP the gimp really is:

here are all numbers:

2495

and here are my stats of my 2nd account (have no time to play both since the game is too time consuming):

2496

Have no time for the discussion now, will be back later. Thanks nicko!

EDIT: MY defense contains a bluebat, that siege thing seems also pretty problematic to me if you don't have a prisoner, because it also takes away everything you need for defending. But is not as OP like prisoner passives.

What the commentators before me forgot:

If you fight a prisoner you need a lot of LUCK to beat him.
I don't avoid him when i estimate a pretty high win% for me. But many times i have to skip. it'n not him alone, it's him in combination with other toons, that will make him so OP.

and no way shaolinlondon and gmac got attacked so much less than other of us, since they give us good rewards with a beatable defense. why would anyone with a decent rooster and skill skip them? Only explanation is that the list is so bugged, that they are simply not shown very often. that's the only rational reason. The machmaking is broken, just a matter of time, that the devs realize this.

[Killhouse]

I'll add my stats, I lurk here enough and am happy to contribute if they'll help.

No prisoner

Finished Rank 13
Points 2713
Attack 91% 387/426
Defense 21% 51/245
Time spent, faaaar tooo much

Not sure how to add a screenshot so you'll have to trust these numbers.

[Nicko]

Going to bed but will try to incorporate new data tomorrow. Thanks to those who are sharing - hope it continues - and will be interested to hear more people's thoughts as well. I will say Sag, Silent Knight, Jofer16 etc will tell you I don't shy away from Prisoners either. Before the revenge limits Sag and I would revenge each other relentlessly. Of course I have a Prisoner which makes it easier.

So - does the fact that SilentKnights offense was within the current norm and not above it (though he said he cherry picks top teams) and CanyptianFit had such excellent stats without a Prisoner put a dent in the "overpowered Prisoner" argument?

[Nicko]

and no way shaolinlondon and gmac got attacked so much less than other of us, since they give us good rewards with a beatable defense. why would anyone with a decent rooster and skill skip them? Only explanation is that the list is so bugged, that they are simply not shown very often. that's the only rational reason. The machmaking is broken, just a matter of time, that the devs realize this.

Unless Sparton has a better explanation for this large disparity, at this point I would have to agree. Solid teams but no more solid than those that got attacked many more times.

[ToTameAGame]

- My real def ratio would be in reality under 25% with so many newbies repeatedly crushing on me 4 times in a row, yet nicko's I believe was always around 35% even on the limited beta.

1. Thanks for sharing the stats and they are more or less what I expected.

2. I would really love to see a day by day but that is not possible. The reason is that my defense in the beginning was close to 40% - newbies. But they learned really fast. After day two I could see the defense rate going down fast. I think with my 25% being attacked almost 350 times my defense is still good. Right now I have been attacked close to 80 times again and my defense sits at a sad 17%. Even without a Prisoner I knew which toons I'd like to have in my defense - I simply don't have them. I expect my defense ending up by the next reset at around 15%.

3. My rank was still in the top 100 but at some point I stopped putting effort into it. I gained 200ish points during the day (sometimes 300 when I refilled) and lost basically everything over night again. Too frustrating to spend anything on it. I mentioned it before I am only collecting Iron Coins for now and hope the system will get a liitle bit more rewarding.

4. The "bug" with the lists is indeed strange. And reading it ShaolinLondo never appeared in my attack lists. I saw Nicko a few times and Jofer once - gmac not at all.

[Ringe666-7406]

Ringe666 (no Prisoner) 2058 pts. 44th
Attack-95% 196/207 (had up to 10 refills, maybe 1-2 less, definitely not more, +3 crashes)
Defense-30% 103/340 (that is almost 70 attacks daily on average, since Arena was released on Tuesday)

Still looking for someone who was attacked more than I was, haven't seen a higher number elsewhere.

[EddieV8-2238]

I've prisoner I do attack everyone toughest battles have been against viking eddie, my team is pharo Eddie, prisoner, red troll and green soulless demon, I did reach 2nd place on ledder board ran out of ironite ended up 184th definitely pay to win, need more than 10 Sands of war.

Rank 184
Points 1682
Attack 84% (287/342)
17% (47/271

[ToTameAGame]

Ringe666 (no Prisoner) 2058 pts. 44th
Attack-95% 196/207 (had up to 10 refills, maybe 1-2 less, definitely not more)
Defense-30% 103/340 (that is almost 70 attacks daily on average, since Arena was released on Tuesday)

Still looking for someone who was attacked more than I was, haven't seen a higher number elsewhere.

Defense-wise we are in the same league - you beat me by a few - so keep on searching :)

@Silentknight: I come with a pipe of peace :)
Maybe we can have a reset - I just got a bit pissed off when you told me I need to change my strategy without knowing my situation. My attack % is even higher than yours I am n the mid 90s. But my defense cannot compete because even if I try hard I don't have the toons for it. My main problem is the defense and being attacked so much. Taking all the usual suspects into account I have a Red Troll - that's it (and he is useless when blue bat, death dog or prisoner are in play). So I found your advice regarding strategy really arrogant and I took out my inner SSD and just used "Taunt" until I had the reaction I wanted to see. Because what you did makes perfectly sense. You defend your "Precious" because it makes your life so much easier and I would probably do the same. I actually did the same when the Warrior Troll became a suspect. With all the other defense lines I can rotate even my peasants to outsmart the AI most of the time - sometimes I just have really long battles and it is actually fun to trick the AI into stupid moves. Against the Prisoner I need a lot of luck. There is a reason why so many Prisoner teams are in the top 50. Siege doesn't bother me nearly as much - all you have to do is putting a lot of the wrong colour against the strongest hitter in your attack team. The AI will fuck it up eventually and you win most of the time. So my apologies for being an arsehole and maybe that's why RNGsus hates me - but these numbers actually help a lot (at least they help me a lot to assess where I am standing and why). Maybe we bumped heads and the real culprits are the attack lists and the point system stinks. Most probably I'd give a flying f*ck about the Prisoner (he still needs a counter - or is too strong) if the point system wouldn't give me the "one step forward two steps back" experience every day.

[ToTameAGame]

I've prisoner I do attack everyone toughest battles have been against viking eddie, my team is pharo Eddie, prisoner, red troll and green soulless demon, I did reach 2nd place on ledder board ran out of ironite ended up 184th definitely pay to win, need more than 10 Sands of war.

Rank 184
Points 1682
Attack 84% (287/342)
17% (47/271

Your defense rate does surprise me. Do you have skillshards on your defense? Are all the talismans level 50? I wish I had this team as an attack force ... that is nearly unbeatable with the right set of talismans.

[Browno]

I try to have a defence that care about most regular players without specific chars.
Fight against the masses not the few players.
Seemed to work.
I am trying a different setup this week to see what works best.

[blade685]

actually pvp is a pay to win yes if you don't have the good characters like me to win

[CanyptianFit]

TTaG, your attack win % is in the mid 90's. so do you attack prisoner teams or do you stay clear of them? Sounds like you attack them and still have a high win rate?

🤔🤔🤔🤔

TTaG, Agree with you strategies. AI is predictable, although I tend to have my "Dream Team" that I take into most bluebat/prisoner fights.

I went after Nicko's team last night, after he attacked me while I was responding to his post (is that even legal?) and I didn't even get a chance to attack. Dang. Already lost a game. 😜

Just finished hitting all 10 of my attack list. Went first 50%, went 2nd against prisoners, blue bats, etc and still can pull it off. If at first your team doesn't succeed, mix it up. Funny the teams I use in PVP I would never use in campaign. I learned how to use characters that I hadn't used much with PVP.

The last point that I'll make is it is interesting to see how the landscape changes in terms of build strategies. Do you go "all in attack" , esssentially giving up if you go second, or do you build for a mix of damage and health. Here is where if you have 2 of the same OP toons you could build one for damage on defense, and still have a mixed build for offense. 🤘🏼

Cheers!

[ToTameAGame]

TTaG, your attack win % is in the mid 90's. so do you attack prisoner teams or do you stay clear of them? Sounds like you attack them and still have a high win rate?

��������

TTaG, Agree with you strategies. AI is predictable, although I tend to have my "Dream Team" that I take into most bluebat/prisoner fights.

I went after Nicko's team last night, after he attacked me while I was responding to his post (is that even legal?) and I didn't even get a chance to attack. Dang. Already lost a game. ��

Just finished hitting all 10 of my attack list. Went first 50%, went 2nd against prisoners, blue bats, etc and still can pull it off. If at first your team doesn't succeed, mix it up. Funny the teams I use in PVP I would never use in campaign. I learned how to use characters that I hadn't used much with PVP.

The last point that I'll make is it is interesting to see how the landscape changes in terms of build strategies. Do you go "all in attack" , esssentially giving up if you go second, or do you build for a mix of damage and health. Here is where if you have 2 of the same OP toons you could build one for damage on defense, and still have a mixed build for offense. ����

Cheers!

I attack them if I feel lucky and I do not attack all of them. Quite often I stay away from the top teams as the risk is too high going against fully skillsharded beasts. If you win they revenge straight away and for this few points the risk is simply not worth it. I don't have a single heavy hitter (Nomad, AoF and that kind of stuff - I was actually thinking of developing a Demon Dog but I don't want to waste skillshards on him - as soon as I do I get lucky on RNG and I will throw my machine out of the window)

Newbie teams with Prisoners will evolve and if I want to compete in the future I will depend on luck in every fight. If I go first I normally win but it takes a while to grind the Prisoner team down. If I go 2nd the AI really has to do something stupid as I depend on luck or it must be a newbie team without skillshards on the toons. So I quite often refresh without clearing the list.

And the AI does really stupid things. Last week I only had the green bat left in the red. Instead of finishing me the AI decided to pull 2 defensive moves giving me the change to make myself invincible - I got a draw and I took it as soon as it popped up. But this AI is a problem if you don't have anything for your defense. And that is a big point for me regarding the Gimp. These teams sit on a comfortable 30+ percent defense rate and the others will degrade as the newbies learn.

[RCarter]

I have a Prisoner, and use him in attack and defense. Didn't beta the PVP.

First week stats:

1711 points
Attack 88% 159/180
Defense 27% 67/240

Defense was mostly the Prisoner, Red Troll, DM, and Visions Eddie. Only the VE is not maxed with shards.

Second week so far:

1644 points
Attack 86% 24/26
Defense 38% 39/103

Swapped the VE out for a Mummy, and tweezed the talisman set up just a little.

Made it up to a little over 2100 points to score all of the achievement skill shards by refilling SOW a couple of times, then really just played for the Iron coins. I think my highest rank was 11.

I don't typically back away from Prisoner defenses. And if I see one of the top guys in my list, I give them a go. Mostly to see what kind of set up they are using, but also to be able to see if I can.

Sorry Nicko, but when I saw your name on my list, I said "hell yeah" and gunned for you... Heck, I hit all my Troopers if they are on the list...

I have a standing Saturday gig that takes me out of the game for about four hours before the reset, so I know that it is very doubtful that I can ever keep an Eternal rank unless I just slam the refills Friday night and Saturday. Not sure if the prizes are really enticing enough for me to do that, so I am content to just play for coin enough for a weekly skill shard, and monthly legendary. If there is change enough for some other souls, then maybe a few of those too.

[Nicko]

Updated stats

First impression - the Prisoner isn't the difference maker he's been accused of - but this is a really small sample size. Let the discussion continue...

The fact that Ringe666 was attacked 200 times more than GMAC is insane. Neither have a Prisoner. Either Ringe's team looked like a sitting duck or there is a great unfairness going on - cause that would really hurt his ranking

[ToTameAGame]

Second week so far:

1644 points
Attack 86% 24/26
Defense 38% 39/103

Swapped the VE out for a Mummy, and tweezed the talisman set up just a little.

Thanks for that! You just have proven my point :)

[CanyptianFit]

I guess I'm just not as upset with the prisoner. I'm happy with mid 90 win rate and I'll take whatever defense rate I can muster.

To me It's fine if you get he gimp and leverage the right mix of toons to get a 30% defense rate.

I don't have the gimp and last week held 30%., although I doubt that will last as players learn.

Good discussion. Up the irons!

[Baba-8301]

Non-prisoner here. Attack 111/125. Defence 68/230. As I wasn't in beta I had a bit of learning to do in attack.

[RCarter]

Thanks for that! You just have proven my point :)

What point was that?

[Aristo4]

Many people around care for their own small world, and not about PVP as a whole for everyone. Few exceptions.

[Aristo4]

What point was that?

I suspect that you managed to get close to 40% ratio on defence being new to pvp, and having a prisoner :p

[Sag7272]

Thanks for that! You just have proven my point :)

It's Monday, my hold average around 27% presently & in beta it was 40-45% so either I've been real unlucky, ppl adapt... Or it's only Monday maybe soon to jump on conclusions ;) I'll post mine after this week, last week's stats don't mean much with all the trial & errors of newcomers it was quite high but going downhill so hard to give a good figure..

[Nicko]

It's Monday, my hold average around 27% presently & in beta it was 40-45% so either I've been real unlucky, ppl adapt... Or it's only Monday maybe soon to jump on conclusions ;) I'll post mine after this week, last week's stats don't mean much with all the trial & errors of newcomers it was quite high but going downhill so hard to give a good figure..

My defense was between 40-50% in beta too. Started out that way in PvP last week and slowly descended to it's 36% final stat. People adapt and figure things out.

[Caretaker]

Updated stats

First impression - the Prisoner isn't the difference maker he's been accused of - but this is a really small sample size. Let the discussion continue...

This is what I've been waiting for, for you to make a point the prisoner is not advantage haha.
And you are wright. Allone it is not.
Smart combos with it are lethal. They are, no matter how you put it. I don't mind, I'd use it too. Reproducing def rates to prove it means.. not much. That owners are worried about possible nerf. Means prisoners attack prisoners. Those without avoid prisoner/siege defs. So did I, but now I just dont't care.
Should I call myself NonCaretaker haha. I go on every combo, wt+pris/siege included, with higher points then myself and close my eyes to get the first turn, if so or not, then I hold fingers crossed so that effects on my team fire up even on taunt :o Green bat's Shriek is good if it taunts the prisoner so he can't stun half of the team with. But he overrides immunity, so you don't have much time. Blind is great against AI in general, which has been upgraded on perfect hits so not necessarily it works.
I don't know what your real work is, but it should be diplomacy and politics, with no disrespect, on the contrary, but you are so good in that. Maybe I should start putting 'with that being said' phrase in my posts, people just buy it :p


The fact that Ringe666 was attacked 200 times more than GMAC is insane. Neither have a Prisoner. Either Ringe's team looked like a sitting duck or there is a great unfairness going on - cause that would really hurt his ranking

That is because of the attack lists+matchmaking. Plus some diference in toughness of defs. Go high on points and you are not on the lists if not someones match, by some criteria.

I had something to say about it here

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4880-Part-1-Attack-lists&p=31749#post31749

[gmac]

Hi Guys,

Just an update, It´s mid Monday and I´ve been attacked 99 times so far this week. So, something has changed. Lot´s of new names on my list too.

I´m kind of upset that was attacked way less than most people, not fair.

It would be good if the Devs have a say on this matter.

[Nicko]

This is what I've been waiting for, for you to make a point the prisoner is not advantage haha.
And you are wright. Allone it is not.
]

I know you were just teasing, but that absolutely wasn't the purpose of this. Aristo and I have chatted quite a bit and he will tell you I've NEVER said he's not an advantage - quite the contrary, actually. My point was based on these stats he doesn't seem to be as huge as accused at this point - and I'm surprised by the stats so far - but right now with so few Prisoner teams posting that's not a fair statement to make. Too small of a sample, and I was clear on that in my post.

And could we do the same comparison with Trolls? Or Hellhounds? Of course. All characters have an influence. The question is how much. The Prisoner is arguably the most important character in the PvP world. He SHOULD make a difference. The question is how much he should make - vs how much he's accused of making - ve how much he actually makes

[Caretaker]

Because you're not too high in points. changed defences?

[ToTameAGame]

I know you were just teasing, but that absolutely wasn't the purpose of this. Aristo and I have chatted quite a bit and he will tell you I've NEVER said he's not an advantage - quite the contrary, actually. My point was based on these stats he doesn't seem to be as huge as accused at this point - and I'm surprised by the stats so far - but right now with so few Prisoner teams posting that's not a fair statement to make. Too small of a sample, and I was clear on that in my post.

And could we do the same comparison with Trolls? Or Hellhounds? Of course. All characters have an influence. The question is how much. The Prisoner is arguably the most important character in the PvP world. He SHOULD make a difference. The question is how much he should make - vs how much he's accused of making - ve how much he actually makes

What? He was teasing you?! Taunting people is my job!

Another statistic would be really interesting but we don't have access to that and it would be too much effort to take care as a player:

Where are the defence losses of Prisoner teams coming from? Is a high % caused by other teams with a prisoner that basically cancel themselves out and the human player has the majority of the advantage again?

[gmac]

Because you're not too high in points. changed defences?

No, same defense. Way down on points yes

[Nicko]

Because you're not too high in points. changed defences?

No - I'm feeling lazy! No way I could do what GMAC and Jofer16 did on Saturday. For me this game is still fun - and want to keep it that way :)

I did sub out SSD for CG in my defense and he's doing almost the same :)

[Nicko]

Hi Guys,

Just an update, It´s mid Monday and I´ve been attacked 99 times so far this week. So, something has changed. Lot´s of new names on my list too.

I´m kind of upset that was attacked way less than most people, not fair.

It would be good if the Devs have a say on this matter.

Agree the developers should comment - and I'm confident they will - but I'm sure they're investigating the matter first. Still - you worked REALLY hard on Saturday - yes, number of attacks on you was in your favor, but that doesn't take away from all the effort you put in.

[Silentknight]

Agree the developers should comment - and I'm confident they will - but I'm sure they're investigating the matter first. Still - you worked REALLY hard on Saturday - yes, number of attacks on you was in your favor, but that doesn't take away from all the effort you put in.

Omfg! Gmac,if that's what it takes... I'm out!!! Thx 4 the heads up!

[Caretaker]

No question abut that, you guys all well earned the prizes!

Nicko knows I'm just sarcastic and provocative, I hope. I have no interest here, my comments to all of discussion are to come up with something Good for the all Legacy players, not just 20 of us spamming here endlesly. Is nerfing passives like prisoners and sige the way? I gave my comment on that dirrection. Let those passives work both ways. Power up on other chars? New talismans, that would do what? For set of four and 10 power with no hp disable all passives haha, good one! Don't know and don't get worked up, and my vote means, well, not much to nothing.

We have those more pressing issues with lists, reset and no of attacks per head limit. And we have no right to limit someones effort, luck, creativness, and good will to pay for what he likes.

[CanyptianFit]

We have those more pressing issues with lists, reset and no of attacks per head limit. And we have no right to limit someones effort, luck, creativness, and good will to pay for what he likes.

Well said!

[Frost]

No Prisoner team. No SoW buys with Ironite. Just playing when refill or free SoW from quests.

2499

I'm still curious why am I not getting attacked as much as I expected. Also I only see people in the 1600~ in my list, even if I beat my 10 oponents. Also I never saw any of the top 10 on my list.

I'm quite happy because my goal is to achieve 2100 points for the challenge, because I doubt I will ever receive or be in the top 10 rewards. Last Sunday you guys went crazy and attacked me a lot!

[Silentknight]

Hey, LOTB Team! Shouldn't there be a reward for top defensive win percentage? I mean that is the name of the game! Hardest thing to do is to get these STUPID toons to cooperate! Also attack win percentage. With a minimum,say 150 attacks. Most will just blame Prisoner & even if that's true,there's a tonne of him out there,look around. Not that rare! That's a reward that would not be pay 2 win! Need to get lists,bugs fixed 1st tho!

[RCarter]

I suspect that you managed to get close to 40% ratio on defence being new to pvp, and having a prisoner :p

I figured the increase is more because I changed my Eddie from a Visions to a Mummy...

Now when will the discussions about how OP the Mummy is start up? Lol

Really, if it ain't one toon, it'll be another.

I think I fear Void talismans more than any line up. No kidding. Those bastards show up everywhere. Lost quite a few matches because I couldn't get rid of those void shields.

[Silentknight]

Defense-wise we are in the same league - you beat me by a few - so keep on searching :)

@Silentknight: I come with a pipe of peace :)
Maybe we can have a reset - I just got a bit pissed off when you told me I need to change my strategy without knowing my situation. My attack % is even higher than yours I am n the mid 90s. But my defense cannot compete because even if I try hard I don't have the toons for it. My main problem is the defense and being attacked so much. Taking all the usual suspects into account I have a Red Troll - that's it (and he is useless when blue bat, death dog or prisoner are in play). So I found your advice regarding strategy really arrogant and I took out my inner SSD and just used "Taunt" until I had the reaction I wanted to see. Because what you did makes perfectly sense. You defend your "Precious" because it makes your life so much easier and I would probably do the same. I actually did the same when the Warrior Troll became a suspect. With all the other defense lines I can rotate even my peasants to outsmart the AI most of the time - sometimes I just have really long battles and it is actually fun to trick the AI into stupid moves. Against the Prisoner I need a lot of luck. There is a reason why so many Prisoner teams are in the top 50. Siege doesn't bother me nearly as much - all you have to do is putting a lot of the wrong colour against the strongest hitter in your attack team. The AI will fuck it up eventually and you win most of the time. So my apologies for being an arsehole and maybe that's why RNGsus hates me - but these numbers actually help a lot (at least they help me a lot to assess where I am standing and why). Maybe we bumped heads and the real culprits are the attack lists and the point system stinks. Most probably I'd give a flying f*ck about the Prisoner (he still needs a counter - or is too strong) if the point system wouldn't give me the "one step forward two steps back" experience every day.

Accepted & back atcha. Hate the game not the player!

[Demoonchild]

More than a Prisoner dependant, I think that the MUMMY is one of the characters that are killing the whole PVP experience. I have a cool Tailgunner, and I find that Visions Eddie is great too. I am sure that others have great Eddies, like Rainmaker, or Soldier Eddies, Cyborgs , ETC!! But nothing can stand against the F'N Basic ability of Mummy, which is AOE, TAUNTS, can triggers Freeze/blind/stunt ETC, and has 100% perfect timing always... thats, THATS! is not fair....
Keep maximized Eddies which have cost blood and tears (and TIME(maybe money too)) at bench in benefit of the F'N Higienic paper covered Eddie is just not fair, and not cool at all.....

[Silentknight]

More than a Prisoner dependant, I think that the MUMMY is one of the characters that are killing the whole PVP experience. I have a cool Tailgunner, and I find that Visions Eddie is great too. I am sure that others have great Eddies, like Rainmaker, or Soldier Eddies, Cyborgs , ETC!! But nothing can stand against the F'N Basic ability of Mummy, which is AOE, TAUNTS, can triggers Freeze/blind/stunt ETC, and has 100% perfect timing always... thats, THATS! is not fair....
Keep maximized Eddies which have cost blood and tears (and TIME(maybe money too)) at bench in benefit of the F'N Higienic paper covered Eddie is just not fair, and not cool at all.....

Agreed! A decent AI would make the game a lot more balanced w/o nerfing!

[The Educated fool]

I don't know how much faith I'd put in this data to prove any specific points, given how early in the Arena's life cycle it is, but what the Hell, here are my stats, for whatever they're worth.

2501

[Silentknight]

I don't know how much faith I'd put in this data to prove any specific points, given how early in the Arena's life cycle it is, but what the Hell, here are my stats, for whatever they're worth.


I'd like to know if anyone's defensive rank is higher than mine-42%. Just curious. Kinda proud of that,prisoner or not. Definitely not bragging as I know Nicko & others could blow me outta the water with their A+ teams. Also down to 39% as more people figure out The Prisoner is not invincible. More attacks today than ever! By many who never used to. Think all the SSD's are playing a part in that too. Mentioned that in here other day & now they're everywhere. God,I need to keep my big mouth shut!

[The Educated fool]

lol--Knowing my luck, I doubt my defence team gets the first turn one out of every 30 anyway (Big, bad Prisoner or not :p )... I've done what I can to hold though. :cool:

[slauki]

why are the defense numbers of some non prisoner teams silmilar to some prisoner teams?

some ideas:

1. first week of PVP is not the best indicator, since many non forum newbies have no clue about which team is great and which not. they will go against everyone and learn it the hard way. in addition to this we all started with 1000 points so basicly the first 40-50 matches were pretty random. now we have some better fitting matchups. so the stats in some weeks will be much more relevant. our ratios will go down very soon, once the newbies figure out how to play or how to pick teams better. i think that prisoner ratios won't drop as much as other ones, since they cannot be countered.

2. prisoner teams will be attacked by much harder teams on avarage, when many player know how the game works. so mainly prisoner vs prisoner or some solid strategy vs. prisoners. that's why the def ratio for them will be lower. we read it here many times, that people try to avoid certain prisoner combinations. So if someone takes on them, he will also have a prisoner many times or a very strong team at least.
i take some shots at some prisoner teams, but no chance that i will go into a huge suicide situation versus specific teams.

3.many non prisoner teams use siege, which is almost the same, when you don't have a prisoner. (when immunity and shields are down, you are an easy target for every stunner/taunter.). Only counter to siege is the prisoner...so siege causes problems too IMO. SO non prisoner teams also exploit certain mechanics, which affects many other players.


summary:
for me similar defense ratios in the first PVP-Week are no argument, that the prisoner is not OP. I said it many times, sorry for the repetition, feeling kind of dumb saying it over and over again but: If something cannot be countered, even if you have the best tools/toons in your arsenal this is OP as hell. If anyone can prove me wrong, with rational arguments i will happily say that i was wrong, and i will praise the gimp from there on. But so far in all the disussions noone could give me an advice how to counter him when he is covered with specific other toons. As said many times too, a standalone prisoner is not OP and not a ptoblem, only him covered by a very stong team (Counter strategy advice 1: Greenbat maybe? Since the nerf you will have a hard time to fight a whole team, especially when the prisoner can seal your immune and invicible bat...BTW WTF???? seems that the some effects (seal) are dominating the normal ones. So this is no real counter)

[gmac]

why are the defense numbers of some non prisoner teams silmilar to some prisoner teams?

summary:
for me similar defense ratios in the first PVP-Week are no argument, that the prisoner is not OP. I said it many times, sorry for the repetition, feeling kind of dumb saying it over and over again but: If something cannot be countered, even if you have the best tools/toons in your arsenal this is OP as hell. If anyone can prove me wrong, with rational arguments i will happily say that i was wrong, and i will praise the gimp from there on. But so far in all the disussions noone could give me an advice how to counter him when he is covered with specific other toons. As said many times too, a standalone prisoner is not OP and not a ptoblem, only him covered by a very stong team (Counter strategy advice 1: Greenbat maybe? Since the nerf you will have a hard time to fight a whole team, especially when the prisoner can seal your immune and invicible bat...BTW WTF???? seems that the some effects (seal) are dominating the normal ones. So this is no real counter)

Hi Slauki,

This is how I used to do it against Prisoner teams. 2 AoS (both maxed) with energy sets, use Shriek then take everyone down one by one, Prisoner being the last one. You have to cast Shriek again even if it´s already on if the Prisoner casts Silence, because next round he transfer his silence despite immunity. Don´t know it that is intended or not, support said they would look into it but never got back to me on this matter.

This still works. But now it takes forever, I usually get the draw option, they should at least changed the blue talisman spot for a purple one. That would compensate for the damage a bit. Torture is true damage after all...

This strategy is not good enough any more, too slow, guys with AoP AND The Prisoner... this is gone. I will try something different, it´s back to testing time.

119 attacks on me this week and counting! Jesus!

[slauki]

Hi Slauki,

This is how I used to do it against Prisoner teams. 2 AoS (both maxed) with energy sets, use Shriek then take everyone down one by one, Prisoner being the last one. You have to cast Shriek again even if it´s already on if the Prisoner casts Silince, because he next round he transfer his silence despite immunity. Don´t know it that is intended or not, support said they would look into it but never got back to me on this matter.

This still works. But now it takes forever, I usually get the draw option, they should at least changed the blue talisman spot for a purple one. That would compensate for the damage a bit. Torture is true damage after all...

This strategy is not good enough any more, too slow, guys with AoP AND The Prisoner... this is gone. I will try something different, it´s back to testing time.

115 attacks on me this week and counting! Jesus!

thanks a los gmac, i tried this with one maxed aos, and it took forever after the nerf and the forces me to draw from time to time (not to mention the times when you are stunned, frozen, taunted or sealed by the prisoner or his teammates).this is a pretty good strategy but not a real counter to the prisoner + others anymore, as you said. maybe 2 aos would do better than one... tbh: i think this shriek doesn't work as intended, but well, we take what we can against the gimp :) probably this is designed for absorbing damage from others, but they overlooked the fact, that prisoner disable the passives...well one thing is very possible...this will be removed from aos to make the UP prisoner a little more balanced :P

[Blacksteel]

Agreed! A decent AI would make the game a lot more balanced w/o nerfing!
Fixing AI should be a priority, right now many decisions are not made because of potential but more so because of finding out which characters the AI controls better (i.e. mummy), while other characters with great abilities get ignored because the AI is broken (i.e. SoL eddie, has great heal that AI rarely uses, AI prefers to try and steal a sometimes non existent buff instead of healing a wounded team, don't get me started on the recently nerfed Corrupt Droid Sentinel, which used to compensate for the lacking AI with a decent damage).

Anyway, about the first PvP week:
Didn't use a Prisoner, it was common to see it paired with Soulless demon (Sentinel), Troll (warrior) and Mummy Eddie, (I only have Mummy Eddie out of those), the teams that combined two or more of those characters accounted for most of my attack losses as I wasn't cherry picking.
Changed my defense a few times trying to fix the nonsense as well, most used characters for defense included a combination of Visions Eddie, CotD Gunner, Troll, Angel of Pain, allied bomber boy (gunner) or Nomad.
Rank: 630
Points: 1585
attack wins 85% (112/131)
defense wins 25% (50/231)

[CanyptianFit]

I think we need to address the elephant in the room.

We've talked how prisoner is OP on defenses, well let's talk how the Pharoah and Gunner Rescuer are OP on offense.

Fine, got that off my chest.

Let's nerf anyone that can revive, especially high health or especially someone that has repeating shield every round that can revive others.

No fair for those with those characters as their offense win rate will be too high.

🤣😜😱

Resume your regularly scheduled program.

[Tritium]

I think we need to address the elephant in the room.

We've talked how prisoner is OP on defenses, well let's talk how the Pharoah and Gunner Rescuer are OP on offense.

Fine, got that off my chest.

Let's nerf anyone that can revive, especially high health or especially someone that has repeating shield every round that can revive others.

No fair for those with those characters as their offense win rate will be too high.

🤣😜😱

Resume your regularly scheduled program.

I agree. Even on defense, a Gunner Corrupt Rescuer can be OP if you don't have a siege toon to knock out that pesky titan shield, but more so because of how it revives characters at FULL HP! I think if that was fixed to revive at half hp or 1/3 hp, the toon would be a lot more balanced. A full hp revive is just too damn good for any toon to have.

[Silentknight]

119 attacks on me this week and counting! Jesus!

75 here with Prisoner so... I dunno. 1st day I've had double digit attacks when I wake up.

[slauki]

I agree. Even on defense, a Gunner Corrupt Rescuer can be OP if you don't have a siege toon to knock out that pesky titan shield, but more so because of how it revives characters at FULL HP! I think if that was fixed to revive at half hp or 1/3 hp, the toon would be a lot more balanced. A full hp revive is just too damn good for any toon to have.

tbh: this is the most ridiculous toon so far for me, because it was designed, while they were planing PVP already. someone could have the idea, that

a) a permanent shield,which refills every round
b) great party revive
c) endure for the whole party

could be a little too much of the great stuff for just one toon...

maybe we should rename him into corrupt prisoner (or corrupt transgender, since it's unsure if he's a male or female :P )

[compurocker]

Here are my stats so far with a Prisoner on my team. I was not in the beta and haven't played a ton of PVP so I may be facing mostly newbies and weaker teams.

2502

[Schadenfreud-0217]

CBA to post screenshot so here's the stats from after the PvP launch:




Current
Last Week


Rank
125
566


Points
1745
1603


Tier
Duelist III
Duelist III


Attack Wins
96% (67/70)
96% (119/124)


Defense Wins
27% (36/134)
27% (66/243)



Although I have a decent stable of characters I don't have The Prisoner, which is also why I usually lose to a good Prisoner defense. 99% of my offense losses are against Prisoner teams (one was when I was drunk and did some stupid shit :D). The problem is that if you don't have a Prisoner, you can't counter a Prisoner team. The fact of the matter is that counters mostly come from passives and then from class advantages and such, but passives (imo) are what matters the most and not being able to use passives against a team which does gives them a much, much higher ground.

[blade685]

Pvp system is bad for now, because if you are not a player since the beginning of the game you don't have many good characters, since many nerf of souls loot...
all players have W troll not me grrr
impossible to loot it now, i try so many times

[HomemLivre]

Pvp system is bad for now, because if you are not a player since the beginning of the game you don't have many good characters, since many nerf of souls loot...
all players have W troll not me grrr
impossible to loot it now, i try so many times

Im with you Blade, have no warrior troll, nor allied bomber boy, and dont have the hellhound to... aaaah, almost forgot that I dont have the prisoner to.

[PerthEddie]

Pvp system is bad for now, because if you are not a player since the beginning of the game you don't have many good characters

Not sure I can agree with that. The amount of Lvl 50-75 players I am seeing who have Warrior troll, corrupt general, Allied general, prisoner, CotD, SSD, Allied Bomber Boy etc. is crazy. I have been playing pretty much since the game was released and I have none of those characters. Makes me realise how shit my RNG luck is :(

[gmac]

75 here with Prisoner so... I dunno. 1st day I've had double digit attacks when I wake up.

A got attacked 122 times on the first day cycle. That´s like 5 an hour

Right now it´s up to 162 attacks to my defense this week.

Looking at the stats I don´t even care about prisoner discussion.

If we spend more Ironite you get attacked less? Is that is? (really hope this is not the case) Or if we are on a higher division?

Devs, helps us out here.

[Browno]

Imo w troll aint that good. His only use is the shields at first turn.
I could not care less if the enemy have ttoll or not, i attack them anyway even without using siege.

[Caretaker]

A got attacked 122 times on the first day cycle. That´s like 5 an hour

Right now it´s up to 162 attacks to my defense this week.

Looking at the stats I don´t even care about prisoner discussion.

If we spend more Ironite you get attacked less? Is that is? (really hope this is not the case) Or if we are on a higher division?

Devs, helps us out here.

Hey, only if you are high in points you don't show up on that much lists, because as is now, only those lists that are not refreshed, or should I say are auto refreshed produce more higher ranked players than you are. Upgrade on lists is needed and I'm sure on the way :p hang in there, don't get upset, try spending some ironite to climb very high, should work.

[Bobo]

I splurged on about 40 rare souls just as PvP launched, hoping that adding a Prisoner or something equally as intimidating to my squad would stop me from being attacked so much, but the best thing I got was my third Pharaoh Dog King and my FOURTH Allied Bomber Boy! Tempted to spend the battle points I have got from PvP on a legendary soul, but I know I will end up with something utterly useless!

I'm sick of seeing the same four or five team loadouts on every single player I come up against! To combat this, they should alter the character "values" in PvP so that you can't just pick the most OP characters in your inventory at once as it would go over your team cost.

[gmac]

Hey, only if you are high in points you don't show up on that much lists, because as is now, only those lists that are not refreshed, or should I say are auto refreshed produce more higher ranked players than you are. Upgrade on lists is needed and I'm sure on the way :p hang in there, don't get upset, try spending some ironite to climb very high, should work.

I wish I could refresh up, to get the top players on my list. I tried to refresh to get higher ranked player and yes, I got lower ranked players...

I will save my Ironite this week, last week burned a lot of my Ironite inventory. So, got to go through the pain...

Thx

[ToTameAGame]

To combat this, they should alter the character "values" in PvP so that you can't just pick the most OP characters in your inventory at once as it would go over your team cost.

In this case you will generate a 90+ percent loss of the defense. But I like the direction. Maybe bonus points for the ones with the lower team costs or penalty points for the ones with higher - I don't know.

[Bobo]

In this case you will generate a 90+ percent loss of the defense. But I like the direction. Maybe bonus points for the ones with the lower team costs or penalty points for the ones with higher - I don't know.

Yeah, something like that might be a better option. It would give veterans a reason to mix their teams out a little bit.

[Nicko]

Hey, only if you are high in points you don't show up on that much lists, because as is now, only those lists that are not refreshed, or should I say are auto refreshed produce more higher ranked players than you are. Upgrade on lists is needed and I'm sure on the way :p hang in there, don't get upset, try spending some ironite to climb very high, should work.

Theoretically true perhaps - but not playing out that way for me. Just over two days now and I've been attacked 156 times. At this rate I'll be crushing Ringes record...

[gmac]

Theoretically true perhaps - but not playing out that way for me. Just over two days now and I've been attacked 156 times. At this rate I'll be crushing Ringes record...

I will crush that record for sure, 166 on my side now.

Lots of game crashes today for me, lost a 4th battle due to game freezing out.

LOBT Gods really hate me right now!

[HomemLivre]

Guess Im in the first line right now with 175 attacks... Need to remember that I received JUST 83 only in the first day.

EDIT: Like Gmac said, I had some crashs and lost some easy points...

[Caretaker]

Theoretically true perhaps - but not playing out that way for me. Just over two days now and I've been attacked 156 times. At this rate I'll be crushing Ringes record...

You do show up more often then other tops. Love matchmaker loves you a lot

[Tritium]

Out of curiosity, to those of you who are being attacked an insane amount of times per day, how many of you are actually able to recover the points lost due to the attacks?

[R1ck]

2505
So far playing all SoW free, that is 65 , that means 65 attacks possible. Kind of difficult to get somewhere if I am attacked 140, more than double.
With AI being so bad programmed, most of people gets only around 30% of holdings.
Taking attacks and defense I have 205 battles, with 106 losses and 99 victories.
Will see how far I get with spending ironites for playing PVP.

[Ringe666-7406]

You will all probably break my record, yeah, but I "earned" it in five days, not seven :P

[Shifter]

Tritium
Out of curiosity, to those of you who are being attacked an insane amount of times per day, how many of you are actually able to recover the points lost due to the attacks?

Only way I see this is attack, attack, attack. refresh attack, attack, attack.

I don't have time to play all day, usually play a few hours in evening and an hour or so in the morning with my coffee. I get up to around 1700 when I'm actively playing and then wake up to around 1450 in the morning. I am currently holding at 31% (41/132), been attacked almost double of what I have attacked (77).

I think it would better to rethink the point system and make it more of win this many battles and get a prize. Make it more like other games and hide who you are attacking. You go into pvp and randomly get an opponent, (that opponent never knows you attacked them and doesn't loose anything). there is no revenge, no lists of who is biggest fish in the sea. This way it is like a personal challenge, win x battles and get something.

Only thing this pvp does is make us that are terribly unlucky with RNG get more frustrated because we still cant get either general, troll, rescuer or other op pvp guys.

[IceManFerrar]

Im with you Blade, have no warrior troll, nor allied bomber boy, and dont have the hellhound to... aaaah, almost forgot that I dont have the prisoner to.

Hey mate, that is pretty impressive that you are able to be so high up the ranks without any of those toons, wow, respect indeed! :cool:

[HomemLivre]

Hey mate, that is pretty impressive that you are able to be so high up the ranks without any of those toons, wow, respect indeed! :cool:

Thanks mate, but Im only able to be mid to high rank spending to much time and a bunch of ironite to. Strategy its a little more required in this case lol

[Ringe666-7406]

Once upon a time, today not-OP-Prisoner blinded my INVISIBLE SSD (no that visual glitch here, he had his eye icon with number 2 above him), and just a few minutes ago, the other not-OP-Prisoner first sealed same INVISIBLE SSD with his BASIC move, then in the next turn he blinded me. Definitely not OP!

[slauki]

Out of curiosity, to those of you who are being attacked an insane amount of times per day, how many of you are actually able to recover the points lost due to the attacks?

i'm stuck at aprox. 1900 since monday morning. i grind up revege several times for 20 points just to fall down again. really discuraging for me. about 160 attacks so far. i play all free sow and lost 1 attack(mostly playing higher ranks) ! so what more should i do to climb up?

no chance that i will spend a dime while the system is so bad. but i belive they are working on it, and we will see some improvements soon. call me an optimist :P

[gmac]

i'm stuck at aprox. 1900 since monday morning. i grind up revege several times for 20 points just to fall down again. really discuraging for me. about 160 attacks so far. i play all free sow and lost 1 attack(mostly playing higher ranks) ! so what more should i do to climb up?

no chance that i will spend a dime while the system is so bad. but i belive they are working on it, and we will see some improvements soon. call me an optimist :P

I suffered 189 attacks, little behind slauki with 1850 pts. Saving my Ironite for Saturday... or maybe next week.

[HomemLivre]

I suffered 189 attacks, little behind slauki with 1850 pts. Saving my Ironite for Saturday... or maybe next week.

Think Im still leading the f* bugged attack list system. 201 at the moment...

[gmac]

Think Im still leading the f* bugged attack list system. 201 at the moment...

I hope that there is some clarification on this.

I´m mad I was attacked way less, spending the most Ironite last week. If this is the current system this is just wrong.

Nice to have you as a trooper, man.

Cheers

[RACCAR-8000]

So is it 50/50 flip of the coin to see who goes first ? Because I'm really feeling like I should be counting how many times I yell when the defense goes first. The beta from what I heard was heavy favor to the offensive going first, or it just went first all the time idk. So is it 50/50 or do I have no luck ?

[gmac]

So is it 50/50 flip of the coin to see who goes first ? Because I'm really feeling like I should be counting how many times I yell when the defense goes first. The beta from what I heard was heavy favor to the offensive going first, or it just went first all the time idk. So is it 50/50 or do I have no luck ?

I think is 50/50 if you do enough matches, but it sure fells like we are going second all the time. LOL

I think our brains are programmed to register ours losses more. (I really believe that)

[Browno]

I have been attacked 210 times so far this week :/

[ToTameAGame]

i'm stuck at aprox. 1900 since monday morning. i grind up revege several times for 20 points just to fall down again. really discuraging for me. about 160 attacks so far. i play all free sow and lost 1 attack(mostly playing higher ranks) ! so what more should i do to climb up?

no chance that i will spend a dime while the system is so bad. but i belive they are working on it, and we will see some improvements soon. call me an optimist :P

I'm in the same boat but a bit lower. The first week I tried but stopped after the middle as I wasted ressources going nowhere. Just interested in the Coins at the moment.

[scott-5496]

I seem to be doing better on attack this week after bringing in a HH. But my defence has fallen from 25% (not brilliant either) to 19%. I made a few little changes to the defenders (including a Prisoner and Warrior Troll) so for me the Prisoner delate is not really that valid as mine is getting owned a fair bit by lots of folk. What I know is that if I go first on attack I have not lost this week yet - if I go second it is tougher depending on the strengths of the other team. I am really not spending much on this - usually a refill a day as well as the odd free shots after getting 10 wins in a row....I still enjoy it and curse when I get owned, but that is what keeps us playing I am sure!

I really hope they do make it better for all - I think the AI is poor for sure - it needs to play smarter if this is the future of the game as my defence is not that different to my attack team and it clearly gets flattened a lot! I think I need to work on my defence and need to add in some skill shards too!

[scott-5496]

I am not sure how other games do this sort of thing but I play another game, Angry Birds Transformers and it does loads of special events, almost daily or over a period of days and when you battle others for prizes it seems to log when you start that days battles so you are only ever against the people who are playing or start playing the same time as you - this means you can sleep and not get destroyed. It must be possible as that is a really old game so cant imagine it is massive....yet I still play it most days to collect different characters and up my standing.....it works very well.

There at bound to be other games that have this sort of approach so that different parts of the world can sleep without being pushed way down the lists.

I am getting hit a lot more this compared to last and that is all good. As I have said I still like this but at the moment it is just to get coins and bonuses as not got the time to get high on the rankings and not sure it is worth it though I do want to get any achievements that are set so my time for a push will come I am sure.

[Csucsu]

Strange statistics throughout the thread... so I thout I'll share my stats too... (no screenies, sorry I'm not a youngster to know how to do that :) ) anyway :
- I play full free, using all the possible SoW.
- I have no prisoner
- last week stats :

Attack Wins: 86% (64/74)
Defense Wins: 15% (3/20)
final rank : 277

- this week (so far)
Attack Wins: 76% (73/96)
Defense Wins: 18% (5/28)
current rank : 148

The ratio of attack / defense is very noticable compared to what others are reporting...

To me enemies owning prisoners are less of a problem... rather I'm sort of frustrated of the SSD/Mummy taunt-lock. It's annyoing because it takes the control out of your hand and the computer plays against the computer... it tells me I'm not even needed to play to game when I want to play the game (I know the sentence makes little sense... so does the whole mechanism).

[gmac]

Just looked at the boards....

Looks like Jofer has started his run...

Nicko chasing!!!

[IceManFerrar]

Come on, GMAC, I'm rooting for either you or Nicko...you guys are both my troopers.

Btw, rookie question, but do the Iron coins carry through to next week? That is, can I save this week's coins so that I can hopefully buy a Legandary soul next week?

[gmac]

Come on, GMAC, I'm rooting for either you or Nicko...you guys are both my troopers.

Btw, rookie question, but do the Iron coins carry through to next week? That is, can I save this week's coins so that I can hopefully buy a Legandary soul next week?

You are a super trooper! Really! And your Wickerman is out of this world, Anybody would benefit having you on their side.

For what I can tell, yes, for SURE your Iron Coins will sum up, regardless of week resets or game updates.

Again, nice to have you as trooper man!

All the best
Gmac

[ToTameAGame]

How the f*ck do you recover from almost -300 points over your sleeping time?

Too much time and frustration now. RNG sucks, the lists and especially the point system sucks, too much grinding against the same team setups (talking about PvP here).

If nothing changes after the next update I will quit for sure - this time I will sell all my toons and all my stuff to make sure I have no resaon to get back to this thing. It's harder and harder to find enjoyable things and at least for me RNG seems to be worse since last update. I haven't seen red eyes from the book since.

LotB is now on top to be the buggiest game I've ever played also the most frustrating one. I play my troopers today and the 3 arena fights to get the awards and let my team further fall into the abyss. PvP is absolutely pointless (<- see what I did there?)


Looks like Jofer has started his run...

Nicko chasing!!!

The good thing is that I am that far down now to not have scrolling up a week to see who is in the lead. I'm afraid the poor Shaolin won't stand a chance.

[RCarter]

Been attacked 302 times so far, and still managing a 36% defensive win rate.

[ToTameAGame]

Been attacked 302 times so far, and still managing a 36% defensive win rate.

That's awesome! <rethorical question>How are you doing it?</rethorical question>

q.e.d.

[scott-5496]

It's my defence that sucks and that is with a Prisoner and Red Troll! I just seem to hover around the 20% hold mark (I was 25% in week 1 but I think people have gotten wise to the combination I have...maybe need more green talisman on the team as I am clearly doing something wrong as I have decent enough toons....maybe need more shards though!

[Shaolin85london]

The good thing is that I am that far down now to not have scrolling up a week to see who is in the lead. I'm afraid the poor Shaolin won't stand a chance.

Hiya there, I'm doing all the necessary to get there on Saturday night. Isn't easy at all, but if I ll have success, I ll share with all of you my experience and tips ofc but especially what actually u can learn out from arena.

[gmac]

Hiya there, I'm doing all the necessary to get there on Saturday night. Isn't easy at all, but if I ll have success, I ll share with all of you my experience and tips ofc but especially what actually u can learn out from arena.

You are doing GREAT! Never seen someone with this many points this time of the week.

Hope you can go one place better than me without The Prisoner.

I will not join the party this week so I will cheer for you!

Good luck! And be prepared to play fast if Jofer decides to go after you. (Don´t know how Nicko plays)

[IceManFerrar]

You are a super trooper! Really! And your Wickerman is out of this world, Anybody would benefit having you on their side.

For what I can tell, yes, for SURE your Iron Coins will sum up, regardless of week resets or game updates.

Again, nice to have you as trooper man!

All the best
Gmac

Cheers GMAC, you are an awesome trooper as well. Not sure how you manage to play PvP and get all your trooper badges in!

Thanks for the response on the Iron coins, really good to know.

Best of luck for when you next decide to take a run for #1 in PvP! :)

[Nicko]

You are doing GREAT! Never seen someone with this many points this time of the week.

Hope you can go one place better than me without The Prisoner.

I will not join the party this week so I will cheer for you!

Good luck! And be prepared to play fast if Jofer decides to go after you. (Don´t know how Nicko plays)

The week I was #1 in PvP was the least fun I've had in this game :p

ShaolinLondo and I have already chatted - no threat from me this week :)

I'll say the first week of PvP Killhouse made a mad tear up the charts late in the game so you can never rest on your laurels. Would not count Jofer or Sag out yet, but with the lead ShaolinLondo has he will be tough for anyone to catch

[Shaolin85london]

Cheers guys, all that I want is establish a new record and write a new chapter in pvp story. Let's see how it goes, still two days ahead.

[gmac]

The week I was #1 in PvP was the least fun I've had in this game :p

ShaolinLondo and I have already chatted - no threat from me this week :)

I'll say the first week of PvP Killhouse made a mad tear up the charts late in the game so you can never rest on your laurels. Would not count Jofer or Sag out yet, but with the lead ShaolinLondo has he will be tough for anyone to catch

Killhouse is damn fast too. Hope he comes back. Also PizzaFriday.

You can never rest once you are up there, and the point system is a killer.

But I have to admit I get excited by it, lots of adrenaline I suppose. For a second I got tempted to go after Shaolinlondon myself, but I wont.

Yeah... I forgot about Sag... he´s been quiet...

I wish someone put up some resistance, It´s fun to watch. Anyone noticed the battle for 10th last week? Silentknight got over FallenAngel by a single point!

[Killhouse]

I have to agree, the week I went eternal was an not a great experience with the Beast.

The time spent climbing just to watch points disappear as you tried to sleep or work or spend time with family or just relax... then you come back and claw your way back up... bad thoughts are coming back.

That Saturday I think I had to play non-stop till reset to finish 1st. At least that was only the second or third week of the beta so a lot of the Common teams you see now weren't all you saw, people were still trying new combinations out.

I have no idea how you consistently achieve a top 5 place each week Nicko. Much respect for your dedication.

I'm just not finding this system rewarding both PVP and PVE are grind grind grind.
In PVP it's taunt fest and luck fest to get the better tailisman procs and the first attack. Seems like every team has a Mummy or SSD and then prisoner or siege. I'm no exception because the game punishes you for trying to use other characters that maybe don't have enough AI programmed to not go full retard.
In PVE its auto game of death or LoL till the sand is gone...

As addicted as I am (played since July and maybe missed using troopers less than 5 times) I feel like it's only a matter of time for me.
Souls cost too much for the odds of actually getting anything good,
Trooper points are a slog and time sink to be rewarded with more souls that don't reward anything of value more than one in 50? 70?
Even skill shards are forced to be used on the current OP character if you want to compete in PVP, and then watch as that character is nerfed (wasting all those shards). You can't really use them on characters that would be fun, or interesting to add variety.
Iron coins... anyone whose made a push for top 25 will know that you end up sitting on a large stockpile that you can't spend even if you wanted to. I'm up to 16k and at what's available weekly I don't need to PVP for a very long time. There should be more offered in the shop or less restrictions since soon most players will easily be earning more that can be spent.

Maybe Brave New Workd will help? Maybe some more mini events like the Halloween one where souls actually felt like you saw one more than every few days. Maybe sacrifice to help players get the characters they want instead of their 5th duplicate of the character that seems locked to your account (Visions I'n looking at you).

Anyway enough ranting by a tired player. See you in the arena for now! There's been lots of improvemts so I will stay hopeful.

[Baba-8301]

I agree completely PMKillhouse, although I reckon PVP is better than PVE because there's at least a chance you'll lose if you go second. Personally I'm holding on for Sacrifice and the opportunity to turn all those hoarded resources into something useful. Maybe.

[HomemLivre]

I want to make Killhouse`s words mine to.

Im being really tired of the PvP, no solutions from devs to simple problems.

Im the one like a few others here that have been chosen to be a f****** punching bag appearing on everyone's list. Have no prisoner, no warrior troll, no sentinel allied bomber boy, no sentinel souless demon... what make it even worse.
I was attacked 311 times until now and this scenario make things very frustrating couse I need to spend lots of ironite that I cant recover from dailys.
Last week, just in the few arena days I was attacked 274 times.

What the hell is wrong in here? No matter what rank Im in.
Devs just do nothing about it and Im about to stop playing this, very discouraging.


EDIT: I was attacked two more times while writing this reply...
EDIT 2: 328.

[Silentknight]

I wish someone put up some resistance, It´s fun to watch. Anyone noticed the battle for 10th last week? Silentknight got over FallenAngel by a single point!

LOL,one of my troopers too! Lost 10th in beta same way,1 pt. or 10 sec. Match carried over to next week.
Lotsa action around 10th!

[Nicko]

I have to agree, the week I went eternal was an not a great experience with the Beast.

The time spent climbing just to watch points disappear as you tried to sleep or work or spend time with family or just relax... then you come back and claw your way back up... bad thoughts are coming back.

That Saturday I think I had to play non-stop till reset to finish 1st. At least that was only the second or third week of the beta so a lot of the Common teams you see now weren't all you saw, people were still trying new combinations out.

I have no idea how you consistently achieve a top 5 place each week Nicko. Much respect for your dedication.

I'm just not finding this system rewarding both PVP and PVE are grind grind grind.
In PVP it's taunt fest and luck fest to get the better tailisman procs and the first attack. Seems like every team has a Mummy or SSD and then prisoner or siege. I'm no exception because the game punishes you for trying to use other characters that maybe don't have enough AI programmed to not go full retard.
In PVE its auto game of death or LoL till the sand is gone...

As addicted as I am (played since July and maybe missed using troopers less than 5 times) I feel like it's only a matter of time for me.
Souls cost too much for the odds of actually getting anything good,
Trooper points are a slog and time sink to be rewarded with more souls that don't reward anything of value more than one in 50? 70?
Even skill shards are forced to be used on the current OP character if you want to compete in PVP, and then watch as that character is nerfed (wasting all those shards). You can't really use them on characters that would be fun, or interesting to add variety.
Iron coins... anyone whose made a push for top 25 will know that you end up sitting on a large stockpile that you can't spend even if you wanted to. I'm up to 16k and at what's available weekly I don't need to PVP for a very long time. There should be more offered in the shop or less restrictions since soon most players will easily be earning more that can be spent.

Maybe Brave New Workd will help? Maybe some more mini events like the Halloween one where souls actually felt like you saw one more than every few days. Maybe sacrifice to help players get the characters they want instead of their 5th duplicate of the character that seems locked to your account (Visions I'n looking at you).

Anyway enough ranting by a tired player. See you in the arena for now! There's been lots of improvemts so I will stay hopeful.

Unfortunately - this is one of the best assessments I've read of the current state of things.

And being Top 5 is much easier on the mental health than gunning for number one ;)

[Fudjo]

There's always going to be the problem that there's a best team. Maybe you get some rock-paper-scissors for different team types, but if you look at the way other games play out, be it computer games or trading card games, there's always a best team or a best deck. The only way that changes is with a change in the characters or cards available, be it through adjustments to the existing characters, removing some characters or introducing new ones. But then it quickly switches to the new best team.

Perhaps a way to introduce variety is to have the players create attack and defense teams consisting of 2 Eddies and 6 Allies, and then when you fight, you use a randomly chosen team of 1 Eddie and 3 Allies. Not perfect, but it would at least stir the pot some more and maybe result in more entertaining battles.

[Kutte]

hmm that would result in even more randomnes. and with all the dupes you wouldn't see any differences.
There are already "Party Costs", i don't get it why they not simply use them.
That would only solve one of many problems of PvP but it would be a start at least

[mjmxiii]

Not too concerned with stats or being the top dog in PvP but it would be nice if we didn't have to wait a week or month to spend some of these iron coins.