Week 2 of PvP - Statistics and Attacks

[Nicko]

Week 2 of PvP is done and again Jofer is the winner.

Congrats - and please introduce yourself!

While the Prisoner is still discussed and seems to be a concern for some, the other hot topic on these forums seemed to be number of attacks. The way the point system is setup an increased number of attacks really works against you - odds are you're losing most of those attacks, and that decreases your number of points.

I saw a decrease in my defense this week. I attribute it to mixing things up a bit and newbies figuring things out.

My second week stats are:

Nicko (Prisoner)

Attack Wins: 99% (605/614)

Defense Wins: 32% (136/431)

Crazy number of attacks I had to make compared to last week to stay at number three. Looking forward to seeing others stats and their impressions of well two.

[Askora]

I'll throw mine in here, even though I'm in a little lower league.

My second week stats are:

Askora (GRE, CG, AGS, SGS)

Attack Wins: 75% (128/170)

Defense Wins: 9% (4/47)

Finishing rank was 74. Not too bad considering my GRE and CG still need a lot of skill shards and AGS doesn't have any yet. Working on a better defensive team. Prisoner has really not been a concern for me as I have almost no characters with passives, so I've had to compensate. I think the point system and the lists are a major issue. I did manage to take down Jofer in 3 tries (might have been 2 if the arena hadn't froze up the second round). Last week I was ranked 1130, so a pretty big improvement, but that was a shortened week too. Doubt I'll hit top 5, but nice to make it into the top 100.

[Nicko]

Thanks Askora. That's a really small number of attacks on you; but you also didn't attack much yourself.

Congrats on top 100!

[slauki]

wow didn't expect my defense to go down so rapidly down...seems that people are learning very fast, and that there is some big flaw in my defense...anyway, it's frustrating like hell. i actually finished with less points ten started, with a 96% winrate on mostly highranked teams. you cannot play much more optimal in offense, without refilling, so this system is damn rigged, if it's not possible to gain points when playing 96% optimal in offense.

the devs should take a more positive approach for the defense. instead of loosing points for losses, we should only gain points when our defense holds and lose nothing (or at least much less) when we got broken. so everyone would have a motivation to build a great defense.

anyway, the sad numbers of this week...

2539

interesting is thatmy 2nd account has just 6 attacks on rank 2331. he also only attacked 35 times.

2541

[Aristo4]

2540

Attacked some more, and got attacked more too. Also took on many prisoner teams compared to last week + some taunting nightmares :cool:

[gmac]

Thanks Askora. That's a really small number of attacks on you; but you also didn't attack much yourself.

Congrats on top 100!

Hi Nicko,

Gmac (No Prisoner)

Attack Wins 95% 405/428
Defense Wins 23% 93/404

Ironite consideration.
My Ironite in the beginning of the week was 1700, and now is as 1630, no purchases.
So, This late run strategy I play for sure protect my Ironite bank, and protects me from this point system that for me really sucks.
And I was still able to make top 5.
So, guys, especially since the number of attacks is so high, there is really no point trying to be so high in the rankings, unless you are really going for top 1, or really willing to spend Ironite.
Of course, the more people that will try the top the less effective this will be. But I´m surprised by results. And the rewards from 2 to 5 are the same. I played all day today but this week was way more relaxed, and fun, for me.

And yes, I´m now convinced that having The Prisoner makes a huge difference, especially on Defense.

[Aristo4]

Ironite consideration.
My Ironite in the beginning of the week was 1700, and now is as 1630, no purchases.

This isn't really a correct way to describe how much Ironite you spent this week refilling buddy. :p

[gmac]

This isn't really a correct way to describe how much Ironite you spent this week refilling buddy. :p

I only spent the Ironite I earned on challenges and using my troopers, don´t know how much It was.

But the point is, It´s very even with the beginning of the week, buddy.

Cheers.

[mjmxiii]

My second week stats are:

Askora (GRE, CG, AGS, SGS)

Attack Wins: 75% (128/170)

Defense Wins: 9% (4/47)

Finishing rank was 74....


Wow Askora, that's weird that you got into the top 100 playing so few matches. Must have been the even lower number of DEF matches? Is not attacking all week the secret to not being attacked as much? Makes sense that it would be easier climbing the ranks at the end of the week if thats how it works. Something seems very wrong with the points system but whatever... congrats on top 100.

My win % was higher (78% last week), so that's a win considering that I hunt the Prisoner all week but I was attacked way more than last week and dropped a bit (26% last week through 88 DEF matches) in that respect.

mjmxiii (No Prisoner)

ATK - 84% (198/235)
DEF - 23% (70/309)

[RCarter]

Attacks- 91% 135/149
Defense- 34% 160/477

Prisoner and troll sure doesn't stop anyone from attacking...

[CanyptianFit]

No prisoner (final rank:9th)
Attack 93% (439/471)
Defense 17% (62/368)

Last week I had 94% attack wins, and having no prisoner makes me vulnerable to taunt fest. (I decline to shard either mummy or the reaper so far. I might invest in reaper as he is a beast and useful in campaign)

I can sometimes win those tauntfests but RNG favors them more then me with the my same odds.

Oh well.

I can't complain about 9th, and used gmac's late heroics strategy.

My lovely g/a souls got me my 3rd Assassin golden son, and a new assassin newborn.

It's been fun with PVP, but will definitely dial it down now.

[IceManFerrar]

Attacks- 91% 135/149
Defense- 34% 160/477

Prisoner and troll sure doesn't stop anyone from attacking...

I absolutely stay away from Prisoner and Troll Defensive team combos. Anyone care to give some advice on what attack teams to use against these two beasts? I'm still playing for a few more days, and then want to plan a good attacking team when I go on my hiatus! :)

[gmac]

I absolutely stay away from Prisoner and Troll Defensive team combos. Anyone care to give some advice on what attack teams to use against these two beasts? I'm still playing for a few more days, and then want to plan a good attacking team when I go on my hiatus! :)

Hey man!

I´m still using most times the 2 AoS strategy. It´s not fast, but does the job.

I´ll find it where I posted and repeat it here for you.

"This is how I used to do it against Prisoner teams. 2 AoS (both maxed) with energy sets, use Shriek then take everyone down one by one, Prisoner being the last one. You have to cast Shriek again even if it´s already on if the Prisoner casts Silence, because next round he transfer his silence despite immunity."

The thing is, The Prisoner passive pretty much makes AoS immortal once he casts Shriek.

@CanyptianFit "... using gmac´s late heroics strategy..." Kind of like it!

Best,
Gmac

[Killhouse]

Well here's week two. No more competitive play from me till there's some fixes to the system.

Finished 14
Attack 88% 444/503
Defense 16% 60/367

Now the kicker, I have a friend who finished top 25. However he didn't not appear on anyone's list once. All his attacks against were from players he attacked and then they revenged. This is critical in a game where they want it pay to win but their system cannot fairly populate names correctly.

His stats (if this screenshot works)

2542

I'll be playing troopers still, but the current PVP is dead to me. It's been fun guys.

[Tritium]

I'm by no means a top player, but I decided to spend some ironite this time around to finish a bit higher. I also noticed quite a big jump in the number of attacks I received this week (meaning I had more attacks in the same amount of time as last week lasted). Here are my stats:

No Prisoner

2543

I actually ended up taking on a few prisoner/troll teams this time around as I was clearing my attack lists for the free SOW. The strategy I used worked fairly consistently, and even sometimes when I went second. I used Mummy Eddie, AOF, warrior ABB, and SSD. If going first, I would use my ABB to create marks on the enemy, then taunt/freeze/stun with my Mummy and his talis, then taunt/vanish with my SSD, and finally, attempt to stun the strongest enemy or kill a weaker enemy with my AOF. If I went second, I used the same strategy as best I could, although normally the AI would focus fire my ABB and either kill him outright or stun him for two turns (thanks to the Prisoner), to which I would have to cleanse with my Mummy. When dealing with the trolls' annoying shields, I would focus fire the weakest toon that had a heal shield, so as to avoid the crazy reflect dmg as best I could. Cheers!

[Tritium]

Well here's week two. No more competitive play from me till there's some fixes to the system.

Finished 14
Attack 88% 444/503
Defense 16% 60/367

Now the kicker, I have a friend who finished top 25. However he didn't not appear on anyone's list once. All his attacks against were from players he attacked and then they revenged. This is critical in a game where they want it pay to win but their system cannot fairly populate names correctly.

His stats (if this screenshot works)

2542

I'll be playing troopers still, but the current PVP is dead to me. It's been fun guys.

Wow, that part about your friend is quite a slap in the face to read. It truly shows how messed up this current system is right now. If only we all had the same luck as him! :rolleyes::p

[Nicko]

Killhouse - always end up agreeing with so much of what you say.

That fact that there are guys like HomemLivre and RCarter attacked 450+ times - and there are guys like your friend and Askora who are attacked less than 50 is probably the most broken thing I've seen in this game.

RCarter attacked other players less than Askora - and was attacked over 400 times more.

Quite simply this is unacceptable.

I always assume the developers are doing they can to make this game work. But in this instance - I also agree with HomemLivre. The developers should make amends to the players. This is not a level playing field and many players have spent time and money to compete for prizes under the impression that it is.

Simply not right.

And of course - like with GMAC last week - those players who have benefited from this should not feel guilty. It's simply a severely broken system.

Thanks everyone for posting so far - and please keep posting stats - both those who were attacked a lot and those who were rarely attacked...

[Nekroliun]

While it isnt an accomplishment due to the number of times i attacked and got attacked, here are my stats2544

Pathetic, i know, thanks. Im using the nomad, AG, soldier eddie and blue magus (4*, i know, pathetic) for both attack and defending

[ToTameAGame]

Very expected stats. Teams with a Prisoner hold 30+ and other in the low 20s or below. My defense also dropped below 20.

If your defense holds 100 more attacks then others - you are not lossing that many points and gain on top - double points in this case.

As long as the system is that unbalanced and unfair I am not trying to compete - I'll find better things to do.

[Chaosego888]

Here are my numbers from this week. Attack 94% (575/614) Defense 23% (105/455) I cannot figure out how to post a screenshot, Any help would be appreciated

[mjmxiii]

That's a broken ass system alright. Oh well, picking up the extra skill shard every week and a legendary soul once a month is more than I was getting last month. Nice not to have to invest in a legendary pack to have an opportunity for a OP toon.

Hey Chaosego, I can only load up images from laptop not mobile. When you are writing up a post, look at the icons in the upper right of the text frame, point your cursor at them and one of them should pop up alt text that reads "image"... click and enjoy dude.

Cheers!

[Askora]

The only thing I can think on the low number of attacks on me is that I'm not showing up in anyone's list, or I'm only showing up in lists of people much higher than me that don't feel the small point grab is worth it. I know I've had lists that had everyone about 2,000 points lower than me. Better to wait for a better list than to go after a team that will only take me backwards if I lose, if I win they'll just revenge and I'll still go backwards.

[Baba-8301]

Attack. 234/265 (damn taunts...)
Defence : 110/435 (damn rng...)

1849 points, rank 301, no prisoner.

Most attack losses were going second when there wasn't much I could do (change of team needed maybe). The couple I lost going first were a combination of drunk in charge of an iPhone and not managing to proc a stun or energy for a shield.

[Mizrael]

i ended up with nearly the same points as started and same as last week. 2100 seems to be a landmark i will never be able to reach with the amount of attacks on me, even though my defense is notthat bad...

(no prisoner)
atk:88% (130/147)
def:31%(126/409)

This week im thinking outside of the box and i set up a deadly defense team for all to enjoy. in the end its all about the coins, which i can get enough of even with 0% def win...hope it will bring me some easier opponents to revenge.

[Caretaker]

Good morning everyone. Well it's 11:45 AM but those beers still work for gravity haha

2545

[Hypnos]

Here are my stats for the week:

2546

Was in a last minute cage match with two others for rank 50. Sadly one of the others finished a couple of points ahead of me. Not too gutted since it's only 20 ironite and a rare soul I lost out on.

Spent around 100 ironite (because what else shall I use it for?) for probably the last time as I plan on spending less of my days and effort tapping revenge for a really garbage weekly prize. Ironite and rare souls? I'm basically getting what I put in plus a chance to get my seventh rocket dog.

Don't get me wrong I'll still attack and revenge, however I'm not purchasing any more refills. That is until the devs decide to gift me and only me the ultimate prisoner counter which would grant me eternal rank week in week out. Reckon I might be waiting a while though, whatcha think?

[slauki]

hey guys,

i see three very problematic patterns in general, which are much more clear in the 2nd week than before.

1. some people are attacked dramaticly less often as others. differences of 400 fights are just ridiculous. this feature is unintentionally rigged.
no chance someone with 400+ attacks can stay competitive without huge investments. the ones with 40-100 attacks can be competetitive with very
moderate investments...sorry guys, but per definition this is rigged.

2. please don't tell me that prisoner isn't that OP and that he is beatable. yes he is and most of us beat him pretty often. but he is the key
to a holdingrate of >30%. most people without him have defenses of 15-25%. only a buddy of mine manages a defense of 30% without him,
which is awesome. but all in all, we see this week a clear line between those who have him (and know how to pair him with other great toons) and those who don't have him. if one toon can cause such a great difference, that is not okay.

3. we all suffer really hard from the point system. being attacked 400+ times and loose everytime huge amounts of points is killing free to play modus.
i refuse to refill sow since i don't wanna support such a system. because everyone who wants to be top notch has to spend huge amounts of ironite and what is more annoying enourmous amount of TIME.

beside this pvp is still fun and it works pretty stabile. so it's potentially a very good feature, but for the sake of fairness, something has to be done asap.

[HomemLivre]

HomemLivre (no prisoner, no ABB, no Hellhound, no SSD, no Warrior Troll)
Rank 21
Attack: 90% (370/413)
Defense: 26% (123/466)

Thats kinda frustrating... Lots of ironite spended trying to be on the 25s.
Thanks Gmac for the thumbs up here on the forum in the final minutes. I have not attacked my troopers who trying to stay in high ranks on the end to. Hope that EducatedFool was able to rank 25s to.

Just like Slauki said, prisoner makes the difference between 20% and 30% hold, thats clear.
At least its nice to see troopers been able to reach high ranks with this broken system :)

Already lost 3 battles won becouse of a crash since the start of this week.

[ToTameAGame]

2. please don't tell me that prisoner isn't that OP and that he is beatable. yes he is and most of us beat him pretty often. but he is the key
to a holdingrate of >30%. most people without him have defenses of 15-25%. only a buddy of mine manages a defense of 30% without him,
which is awesome. but all in all, we see this week a clear line between those who have him (and know how to pair him with other great toons) and those who don't have him. if one toon can cause such a great difference, that is not okay

Just to tune in before the argument comes up again that I read before: "The Prisoner can make a difference and he SHOULD!"

OK, fine - but why should he be the only one to make a difference? Not that I have any of the 5* super toons but there are other very rare chars and they are completely useless for PvP - or at least I don't see a lot of them and when they never make a difference.

Oh well in maybe a month or eight we get a counter or not

[R1ck]

I haven't spent so much time in a game since I was youth playing NFS, unfortunately without reward in this game. Despite all the feed back devs have they don't make anything regarding them. The prisoner and the bad point system is something that will kill PVP eventually, many players quitting is not a problem for devs because there is always new people coming to spend money in this buggy game, once they figure it out there's already money in dev's arks. In other games there are fixes every week, at least to calm down some people.
I have fully sharded my warrior troll, AoP but they are useless against the prisoner. So this week my defense went down like for many others.
2547

[konstifik]

Attacked 133 times and got attacked 104 times last week.

Made a little run for it mid-week and got up to 2300 VP, and didn't get attacked much while doing so. Wasn't able to play much on Thursday and barely at all Friday-Saturday, and ended up at 1823 VP as attacks started rolling in.

[Sag7272]

As promised, here are my stats for a full week... Sure could had gone ballistic & play with Nicko & Shaolin but lacking time I quietly landed 6th, real happy for GMAC & his 5th place :)

ATT 96% (361/376)
Def 35% (121/350)

Lowest def hold since beginning of January before the "GS/DM" freezer teams..

Before we hear the classic " He have a prisoner that's why he's that high" refrain, remember that everyone in that team is maxed & is thought to work with the other toons around him, tallismans too are built accordingly as a whole been tested in LoL & def manager hundred of times to figure out AI ect..
There's a reason why I never shown last week stats, with all newcomers smashing a wall I would had been crucified...

I'll never say that the Prisoner is a small factor out there he's really powerful both way but there's dozen of other factors too, testing, tallismans, skillshards.. every tweak account for a hold here & there & higher rate should not ONLY accounted as a given because someone have a prisoner, I may be wrong but to me he may account for a good 5-7% DEF or ATT rate for sure but probably not the 10-15% he's accused of by many...
For what it worth that's where my opinion is...

[Nicko]

Felice (ShaolinLondo) messaged me his stats and said ok to post.

He has no Prisoner

2548

[The Educated fool]

I'll never say that the Prisoner is a small factor out there he's really powerful both way but there's dozen of other factors too, testing, tallismans, skillshards.. every tweak account for a hold here & there & higher rate should not ONLY accounted as a given because someone have a prisoner, I may be wrong but to me he may account for a good 5-7% DEF or ATT rate for sure but probably not the 10-15% he's accused of by many...
For what it worth that's where my opinion is...

Well said as usual, Sag. It seems like testing defenses and building teams with synergy is kinda taken for granted here sometimes, doesn't it? I see that too. And 5 - 7% (which I agree, seems accurate) really doesn't seem all that much to me either... but, like you, that's my opinion. :cool:

On the other hand, to ToTameAGame's point, I agree that the Prisoner shouldn't be the only 5* that makes the difference that he does, and characters like Vampire Hunter Eddie, The Nomad, and most especially poor F'n Visions Eddie should be given some attention and balanced (positively) to make their 5* status worthwhile! (Lord knows Cyborg Eddie seems to get this attention enough... which he should, but what about the other rare 5* Eddies?)

@HomemLivre: I did indeed finish in the top 25 (23), but I fought to the bitter end to make sure of it. lol I definitely try not to attack my troopers in general too... it's just sometimes impossible not to, when you're fighting for a rank, especially on Saturday.

Here are my stats for week 2, for whatever they're worth:

EducatedFool (Prisoner)

Attack Wins: 92% (324/352)
Defense Wins: 31% (111/361)

[HomemLivre]

@HomemLivre: I did indeed finish in the top 25 (23), but I fought to the bitter end to make sure of it. lol I definitely try not to attack my troopers in general too... it's just sometimes impossible not to, when you're fighting for a rank, especially on Saturday.

Good to know mate :cool:

[Sag7272]

...Prisoner shouldn't be the only 5* that makes the difference that he does, and characters like Vampire Hunter Eddie, The Nomad, and most especially poor F'n Visions Eddie should be given some attention and balanced (positively) to make their 5* status worthwhile! (Lord knows Cyborg Eddie seems to get this attention enough... which he should, but what about the other rare 5* Eddies?)...


100% with you there, would open up the pool of useful toons & balance out Prisoner relative OP ness by raising the bar not lowering it for a change :)

[CanyptianFit]

I'd love to be able to break out my Nomad.

Challenge is his Mirage. Powerful, but wouldn't use him in defense as if he goes first and vanishes his team and then the other toons hit someone, invisibility is gone.

One solution would be to guarantee his mirage at least for that round regardless if his fellow toons attacked.

Plus it would allow you to plan ahead of time. If my team was vanished, I could attack without fear of losing vanish, or if one toon wasn't and I needed to shield I could.

Too high risk/reward at the moment. Have to have him attack last and hope for the best, which is too risky.

[BillLion]

Here's my stats taken from this morning:

2549

I fooled around and tried to attack w/ my newly acquired Viking (without skill shards) and lost a few more than normal on offense.

I spent 90 ironite to get past 1900 midweek. Then it was maintenance to stay there...almost. I ended just below the threshold because of a couple last minute attacks. I didn't spend the ironite to get back over the threshold because it would have been a net loss of 10 ironite even with the next level prize.

Sidebar: I've already had an epic rant (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4854-February-14th-2017-PVP-Arena-Update-Discussion&p=31228&viewfull=1#post31228) about the poor prizes for the investment of time and ironite PVP requires -this is just another example. 20 Ironite difference in rewards between several tiers? What's the motivation to get to the next one? Only motivation is to the top. Even then it hardly seems worth it.

Sorry for the mini-rant. (Note: On a constructive not I also gave suggestions to sweeten the deal.)

Thanks for compiling this, Nicko!

[Nicko]

Still not seeing a definitive trend with this small sample size. Players like CanyptianFit, Slauki, ChaosEgo, and Shaolinlondo have mid 90s attack scores comparable to most of the Prisoner teams like Sag and Educated Fool. Others are in the 80s.

Defense percentage for Prisoner teams takes a definite bump up. 5-10% seems about right.

Its silly to debate whether the Prisoner makes a difference - he does. I'll be honest - I've played over 1000 matches over the last two weeks. I've lost to only THREE non-Prisoner teams. I specifically remember each of them. One was Schadenfreud when I left my Prisoner out and his AoP became a "Prisoner" (which WILL happen if Prisoner is nerfed too hard) - My Hellhound and Troll didn't work - I went second - and was taunted/stunned to oblivion. The other two were against ChaosEgo and Carlos. Each of those times I got careless and attacked Void shields with my Hellhound while not paying attention.

Don't get me wrong - there have been a couple of really close ones where I have one character left with just a pinch of health - but that's not the norm. I also have plenty of characters to combine the Prisoner with, including (IMO) the most critical ones - Hellhound and Troll. I only got the Troll a few weeks ago - right as Beta was ending - and it's made a huge difference.

We all make choices for ourselves. We know the current condition of the Prisoner and some without Prisoners enjoy the challenge - even saying "Don't nerf him" - others are reducing their playing due to frustration. But we know where it stands and decide for ourselves whether to play knowing how the Prisoner operates.

The problem I have with the number of attacks is it was NOT a known issue. I'm assuming it was news even to the developers. And unless you're on these forums paying attention to this particular thread, you're playing under the assumption that number of attacks is fairly distributed. That's not the case. And it's influence on ranking is huge. So it's the developers responsibility to make a quick adjustment for the benefit of those not reading this thread.

For those who are reading - we can no longer blame the system. You can choose to play or choose not to play knowing number of attacks is broken. Some, like Killhouse, are stepping out. I personally am just slowing down until I see how this pans out. I have faith the developers will make a swift adjustment, but I'll post a new thread each week so we can track this.

I'm not sure even if I knew about the attack variation the first two weeks if I would have slowed down - if it would have deterred me. In all honesty - probably not. It was new and PvP is addicting. But at this point I'm in a different spot so plan on revenging everyone who attacks and breaks my defense (or finding them on my attack list if I reach my limit) and attacking here and there for fun. I love it when I see new team combos and can use different toons in my roster to attack them. Maybe I'll ramp it up closer to the weekend - seems to be the smarter strategy - guess we'll see. But I'm definitely cutting back until the "Number of attacks" bug is fixed.

Thanks all for posting!

[slauki]

I love it when I see new team combos and can use different toons in my roster to attack them.

actually that's the biggest fun part in PVP adjusting strategys on many different and creative teams. but atm you see the same toons everywhere, mummy, prisoner, ssd, bluebat, grim reaper and aof. that's makes pvp just another boring grindfest.

for more variation we need more balance. yes it would also be okay to buff some other nice characters. prolly it would be even smarter than nerfing three OP toons. but in realitiy it's much more difficult to do that.

so i would suggest several things for the sake of diversity:

1. reducing the tunt% of mummy and SSD
2. change prisoners passive that only affect random passives (or removes the passives of the own team too)
3. change siege, that is only affects random effects (or reduces the own effects too)
4. change the gunner rescuer in some way, otherwise he will be the next chuck norris
5. decrease the damage output from grim reaper or remove his extra turn, that can trigger 3-4 times, doing 15k damage every time

we would instantly see a much greater variation of teams and more justice for all :-)

and yes, there will be the next toon, that will cause trouble, but that's no argument to live with these broken things forever. if we do nothing, this will hurt the game in midterm and longterm. so we kinda have all to swallow some bitter pills (like CG, AOF and AOS nerfs for example).

[CanyptianFit]

1. reducing the tunt% of mummy and SSD
2. change prisoners passive that only affect random passives (or removes the passives of the own team too)
3. change siege, that is only affects random effects (or reduces the own effects too)
4. change the gunner rescuer in some way, otherwise he will be the next chuck norris
5. decrease the damage output from grim reaper or remove his extra turn, that can trigger 3-4 times, doing 15k damage every time
.

1. To me his % is okay, I think it is overprocessing. I have exact same processing rates on other toons that are processing nowhere near the frequency of SSD and Mummy.

2. If there is a nerf to prisoner it needs to be very very subtle. He is 5*. I'll continue to be a proponent that nerfing him comes at a high risk. He, as he is, is cool. I don't have him, but love what he does.

3. Against anything done to siege. I almost hate siege more than prisoner given it affects you every round until he is gone, but again think siege has a place in the game. I wouldn't touch it.

4. I don't stress him anymore; although he is very much one of the top game changing players. I'd love to have him on offense.

5. Grim is a tough one. Unsharded he isn't that bad. Almost boring. To get him OP you have to spend a shift-load of shards, and you get him after beating the game. On the fence here. I think given the investment to fully shard, I lean towards leaving as is.

My 2 cents.

Good points slauki! Good to discuss.

Sparton, are you going to have more character discussions? That was hot about a month ago and is now dead.

[ToTameAGame]

As promised, here are my stats for a full week... Sure could had gone ballistic & play with Nicko & Shaolin but lacking time I quietly landed 6th, real happy for GMAC & his 5th place :)

ATT 96% (361/376)
Def 35% (121/350)

Lowest def hold since beginning of January before the "GS/DM" freezer teams..

Before we hear the classic " He have a prisoner that's why he's that high" refrain, remember that everyone in that team is maxed & is thought to work with the other toons around him, tallismans too are built accordingly as a whole been tested in LoL & def manager hundred of times to figure out AI ect..
There's a reason why I never shown last week stats, with all newcomers smashing a wall I would had been crucified...

I'll never say that the Prisoner is a small factor out there he's really powerful both way but there's dozen of other factors too, testing, tallismans, skillshards.. every tweak account for a hold here & there & higher rate should not ONLY accounted as a given because someone have a prisoner, I may be wrong but to me he may account for a good 5-7% DEF or ATT rate for sure but probably not the 10-15% he's accused of by many...
For what it worth that's where my opinion is...

My defense is fully skillsharded and I loose a lot against it if I test it - but I can't neutralize their passives. I got full 50 level talis on all of them. If it is only a matter of testing, talismans, skillshards and so on - try a week without your Prisoner and we talke again. Very easy to proof us "complaining people" wrong - isn't it?

[ToTameAGame]

Well said as usual, Sag. It seems like testing defenses and building teams with synergy is kinda taken for granted here sometimes, doesn't it? I see that too. And 5 - 7% (which I agree, seems accurate) really doesn't seem all that much to me either... but, like you, that's my opinion.)

easy to calculate: 400 attacks -> 7% -> points to have or to gain or to loose (assuming a lousy 12 points per fight) -> 672 points difference - to me that ounds like a big deal.

[Sag7272]

My defense is fully skillsharded and I loose a lot against it if I test it - but I can't neutralize their passives. I got full 50 level talis on all of them. If it is only a matter of testing, talismans, skillshards and so on - try a week without your Prisoner and we talke again. Very easy to proof us "complaining people" wrong - isn't it?

I don't mean what you imply..
I mean that back in the beta I saw an impressive increase of about 5% over a week by doubling my void shield set, was it prisoner fault too?
The fact that most toon in my defense stun to work with the mummy 2 turn taunt are prisoner fault too?
I can put many powerful 5* tallisman combination that would lead to a lower rate of hold despite doing more damage...

I said that you have to look at the broader picture when you interpret those results as even with all the right toons you can build a shitty team prisoner or not if it doesn't work together & hold a certain balance talisman wise be these maxed or not..

A good part of the higher rates is in the small details & thinkering, the prisoner is a factor it's true but interpreting the results the way you do give him too much credit, look at Shaolin stats & tell me he's that far of a prisoner team, I bet there's a lot of thinkering & work behind this & it didn't happened overnight... Toons-team-tallismans, everything have to work together just being maxed is not the point in a successful defense..

[Chaosego888]

Its silly to debate whether the Prisoner makes a difference - he does. I'll be honest - I've played over 1000 matches over the last two weeks. I've lost to only THREE non-Prisoner teams. I specifically remember each of them. One was Schadenfreud when I left my Prisoner out and his AoP became a "Prisoner" (which WILL happen if Prisoner is nerfed too hard) - My Hellhound and Troll didn't work - I went second - and was taunted/stunned to oblivion. The other two were against ChaosEgo and Carlos. Each of those times I got careless and attacked Void shields with my Hellhound while not paying attention. I saw that hold when I was on my lunch break at work the other day. I thought to myself that the game just probably crashed on you. I hate to see the Prisoner get nerfed but I do understand it now. Personally, It is easier to accept now that I have learned how to beat Prisoner teams. I figure it is more of an advantage to have it to use on your offense and fight passive free than anything else. You have to think backwards when going against Prisoner teams and fight with a defense team. I think that is the part that Gmac and I have figured out. I agree with you about the Angel of Pain living up to it's name. It gives me more trouble than the Prisoner but the Corrupt General gives me more trouble than any other character in the game. You can take it down quick as long as you have a chance to attack. I am pretty sure I have suitable characters on my roster to deal with it, just need to figure out what to develop next

[rider]

Here my statistics

2550


I spent 0 (zero) ironite to refill SoW or refresh the attack list
Never cleared the whole attack list, only attacked higher ranked players to get more points. Mainly I attacked 2-3 targets from list and then waited until free refresh was available. Only attacked lower ranked players if I still had unused SoW and had to go to bed :)
My defense has a prisoner, but the win rate is pretty low. Maybe as result that I was attacked back by top players.


Really annoying were totally 10 lost battles, which I had to exit due to bugs reported in this post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4893-Arena-fight-stuck)

I don't know if I was not appearing on some attack lists, but the differences how often we are attacked can be partially also be explained, that the players can choose whom to attack. And some teams are less attractive as others.
My personal conclusion is not to attack a Mummy+SSD+CG combo :). As I have no toons who can grant passive immunitiy, even if I go first I then never got control of my team.

[Chaosego888]

actually that's the biggest fun part in PVP adjusting strategys on many different and creative teams. but atm you see the same toons everywhere, mummy, prisoner, ssd, bluebat, grim reaper and aof. that's makes pvp just another boring grindfest.

for more variation we need more balance. yes it would also be okay to buff some other nice characters. prolly it would be even smarter than nerfing three OP toons. but in realitiy it's much more difficult to do that.

so i would suggest several things for the sake of diversity:

1. reducing the tunt% of mummy and SSD
2. change prisoners passive that only affect random passives (or removes the passives of the own team too)
3. change siege, that is only affects random effects (or reduces the own effects too)
4. change the gunner rescuer in some way, otherwise he will be the next chuck norris
5. decrease the damage output from grim reaper or remove his extra turn, that can trigger 3-4 times, doing 15k damage every time

we would instantly see a much greater variation of teams and more justice for all :-)

and yes, there will be the next toon, that will cause trouble, but that's no argument to live with these broken things forever. if we do nothing, this will hurt the game in midterm and longterm. so we kinda have all to swallow some bitter pills (like CG, AOF and AOS nerfs for example).
I agree with most of this, especially the taunting. I rely on this alot myself. I disagree that the Corrupt Rescuer will ever be that threatening. I used it on my defensive team when I first got it but most have learned how to dispose of it easily. The key is with Talismans and Stuns, just keep her from reviving allies. She is almost as dumb as Pharaoh Eddie anyway. The problem with all the nerfing is we are going to reach a point where the only defensive hold anyone gets is going to be because of game crashes

[Shifter]

Here is my stats, no prisoner, no CG no troll. I was playing with attack team so my attack is a little lower this week, i expect it to be higher this week.

Attack 77% (236/306)
Defense 30% (116/381)

Finished rank 183

it is very weird on the times someones name comes up. My wife had 20 fewer attacks than me, but was attacked less then 100 times total. I assume it is perception on what could be an easier team to beat.
I have already been attacked 44 times and have only attacked 3 times since reset.

[slauki]

I agree with most of this, especially the taunting. I rely on this alot myself. I disagree that the Corrupt Rescuer will ever be that threatening. I used it on my defensive team when I first got it but most have learned how to dispose of it easily. The key is with Talismans and Stuns, just keep her from reviving allies. She is almost as dumb as Pharaoh Eddie anyway. The problem with all the nerfing is we are going to reach a point where the only defensive hold anyone gets is going to be because of game crashes

the set of skills is way too much imo. revive party, endure, and renewing shield every round, enough for 3 good toons if you ask me.

regarding the defense i agree. it would be very tough for them, but this would be easy to fix. give them some kind of bonus if they went 2nd like healshield, damage reduction or something like that and that could balance out the holds a little more. but yeah, changes have to be subtile and thoughtout. it's not a good idea too nerf every toon out there, but as mentioned, for the sake of diversity, and healthy game development it's simply necassary in some cases, but that's only my opinion. other creative and game saving solutions are always welcome.

[Shaolin85london]

the set of skills is way too much imo. revive party, endure, and renewing shield every round, enough for 3 good toons if you ask me.

regarding the defense i agree. it would be very tough for them, but this would be easy to fix. give them some kind of bonus if they went 2nd like healshield, damage reduction or something like that and that could balance out the holds a little more. but yeah, changes have to be subtile and thoughtout. it's not a good idea too nerf every toon out there, but as mentioned, for the sake of diversity, and healthy game development it's simply necassary in some cases, but that's only my opinion. other creative and game saving solutions are always welcome.

I was thinking about to create a sort of categories battle. For instance on Monday it allows fights between warriors, Tuesday sentinel, and so on, till Friday were all categories are admitted again till Sunday night.

Dunno doesn't seem a bad idea, it really could give more variety to the game and prisoner op teams ll be playable only in a short timeline, giving more chance to overtake the ranks from bottoms levels.

[CanyptianFit]

Great idea. They don't have to do it each week, but once a month have a class battle week.

Genius!

[Kamuz24z]

Attack 95% 216/226
Defense 24% 117/484
Rank 390

I was attack almost 500 ⚔️
I can't post a picture I don't have computer I tried to do it from my phone if anyone knows how to do it please let me know

[Nicko]

Here my statistics

2550


I spent 0 (zero) ironite to refill SoW or refresh the attack list
Never cleared the whole attack list, only attacked higher ranked players to get more points. Mainly I attacked 2-3 targets from list and then waited until free refresh was available. Only attacked lower ranked players if I still had unused SoW and had to go to bed :)
My defense has a prisoner, but the win rate is pretty low. Maybe as result that I was attacked back by top players.


Really annoying were totally 10 lost battles, which I had to exit due to bugs reported in this post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4893-Arena-fight-stuck)

I don't know if I was not appearing on some attack lists, but the differences how often we are attacked can be partially also be explained, that the players can choose whom to attack. And some teams are less attractive as others.
My personal conclusion is not to attack a Mummy+SSD+CG combo :). As I have no toons who can grant passive immunitiy, even if I go first I then never got control of my team.

Vadym - thanks for posting - were you playing all week or just at the very end?

Sparton suggested that those with low attacks on them may be waiting until the last minute to play. Really curious what your experience was.

Thanks!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton, are you going to have more character discussions? That was hot about a month ago and is now dead.

I've been telling Kaz to cool his jets; we aren't looking at doing nerfs to anyone outside of the guys we posted threads about (and even then we've either done something or have decided to do nothing for now). The Prisoner is still on our mind, but we want to see if we can evolve the meta by introducing things instead of doing direct changes to him, but if the next thing we add in doesn't work as well as we'd like, then we'll reassess. The only reason we didn't see such addition to the meta in time for worldwide is we needed more time to iron out bugs relating to it.

[Tritium]

I've been telling Kaz to cool his jets; we aren't looking at doing nerfs to anyone outside of the guys we posted threads about (and even then we've either done something or have decided to do nothing for now). The Prisoner is still on our mind, but we want to see if we can evolve the meta by introducing things instead of doing direct changes to him, but if the next thing we add in doesn't work as well as we'd like, then we'll reassess. The only reason we didn't see such addition to the meta in time for worldwide is we needed more time to iron out bugs relating to it.
Emphasis mine.

This sounds like a good solution. I'm intrigued to see what you and the team have come up with and am hoping that it'll be introduced sooner rather than later so we can finally tackle the Prisoner.

[Nifelheim]

2552

Casual pvp'er. Not even using all my daily sow. Main reason is I don't have enough materials to enhance all the talismans I want to use + I still havnt mastered ideal talismans setups and effective toon synergies.

I do have really good toons, talismans, just need to learn effective strategies. I'm good on campaign setups.

No prisoner. Not using warrior troll.

[Lord Schmeb]

Last week stats:

Rank: 13
Points: 3137
Attack Wins: 76% (648/855)
Defensive Wins: 8% (18/219)

Played every day, spent iron item on refills daily, etc. I rarely refresh my list, as I like the free sands.

All this time I've been pretty happy/impressed with my skillz in PvP, considering the 5* players that I don't have (no Prisoner, no Troll, no CG, no Bats, and I'd rather remove a ball with a rusty fork than use Mummy, etc.) -- only to realize that both my win % and defense % are abysmal, and should realistically land me in the bottom 10% of players who have been playing as long as I have. I only achieved my rank due to not getting attacked -- and by refilling a shit load of SoW -- which really deflates some of the good feelings/fun I am having. FWIW, I feel bad that I just got lucky, while some of you, who are by far superior players, got bent over. It's like Obama's left leg; it ain't right.

Some other thoughts (assuming you all care):

Don't nerf the Prisoner, GRE, the taunters, stunners, etc. I've had more fun in the last two weeks trying to figure out how to beat those bitches with my "standard" teams than I've had in the last six months combined. Every toon has a counter, and as evidenced by my %'s above, I've yet to figure most of them out -- but I HAVE figured out a few. Do they work every time? Nope, but thinking about different ways, testing them, and then actually having some success (even if it is 1 win out of 10 -- it sure beats 0 out of 10) is uber-gratifying to me. My wife knows when I've made a breakthrough of some kind (like beating a team that has smoked me 4 or 5 times in a row -- you guys know who you are; hooray for easy def. points!) because I can't contain myself and usually bellow out something childish and crude -- usually having to do with ass-rape in the prison yard, the terms "dick hole," "pooh-finger," and/or "FEAR MY SCHMEB!" or ingesting/biting/sniffing horse balls, my schweaty anus, or GMAC's taint. 😱

The point is, nerfs are lame. Don't let the game beat you; you're better than that! Figure that shit out and quit whining! (and learn how to spell "lose" -- your failure to grasp 3rd grade spelling concepts, combined with your incessant bitching, only makes you look durka-durk.)

Also, I don't understand the whole "root for your trooper" mentality here. Sure, maybe if this were an MMORPG where we actually got to know folks, that might be something -- but, seriously, I don't get it. If you're on my list, I'm gonna attack you (and shoot, chances are pretty good you're gonna get some free points when I run face-first into your fist), and it's nothing personal. I also expect you all to attack the snot out of me. I know that the only thing I'm good for is 25 Trooper points a day, so just leave it at that, and have at me.

[rider]

Vadym - thanks for posting - were you playing all week or just at the very end?

Sparton suggested that those with low attacks on them may be waiting until the last minute to play. Really curious what your experience was.

Thanks!

I played all the week, utilized every free SoW (24 naturally generated + 3 from daily rewards), this makes 189 free SoW per week (27x7) which you can see in my attacks stat. The rest of 4 was not used SoW from previous week. So my attacks were distributed very smoothly along the week.

As I preferred to attack high ranked players, most of my attack wins gave me at least 17 points and with most of losses I lost 12 or 13 points.

[Silentknight]

Last week stats:

Rank: 13
Points: 3137
Attack Wins: 76% (648/855)
Defensive Wins: 8% (18/219)

Played every day, spent iron item on refills daily, etc. I rarely refresh my list, as I like the free sands.

All this time I've been pretty happy/impressed with my skillz in PvP, considering the 5* players that I don't have (no Prisoner, no Troll, no CG, no Bats, and I'd rather remove a ball with a rusty fork than use Mummy, etc.) -- only to realize that both my win % and defense % are abysmal, and should realistically land me in the bottom 10% of players who have been playing as long as I have. I only achieved my rank due to not getting attacked -- and by refilling a shit load of SoW -- which really deflates some of the good feelings/fun I am having. FWIW, I feel bad that I just got lucky, while some of you, who are by far superior players, got bent over. It's like Obama's left leg; it ain't right.

Some other thoughts (assuming you all care):

Don't nerf the Prisoner, GRE, the taunters, stunners, etc. I've had more fun in the last two weeks trying to figure out how to beat those bitches with my "standard" teams than I've had in the last six months combined. Every toon has a counter, and as evidenced by my %'s above, I've yet to figure most of them out -- but I HAVE figured out a few. Do they work every time? Nope, but thinking about different ways, testing them, and then actually having some success (even if it is 1 win out of 10 -- it sure beats 0 out of 10) is uber-gratifying to me. My wife knows when I've made a breakthrough of some kind (like beating a team that has smoked me 4 or 5 times in a row -- you guys know who you are; hooray for easy def. points!) because I can't contain myself and usually bellow out something childish and crude -- usually having to do with ass-rape in the prison yard, the terms "dick hole," "pooh-finger," and/or "FEAR MY SCHMEB!" or ingesting/biting/sniffing horse balls, my schweaty anus, or GMAC's taint. 😱

The point is, nerfs are lame. Don't let the game beat you; you're better than that! Figure that shit out and quit whining! (and learn how to spell "lose" -- your failure to grasp 3rd grade spelling concepts, combined with your incessant bitching, only makes you look durka-durk.)

Also, I don't understand the whole "root for your trooper" mentality here. Sure, maybe if this were an MMORPG where we actually got to know folks, that might be something -- but, seriously, I don't get it. If you're on my list, I'm gonna attack you (and shoot, chances are pretty good you're gonna get some free points when I run face-first into your fist), and it's nothing personal. I also expect you all to attack the snot out of me. I know that the only thing I'm good for is 25 Trooper points a day, so just leave it at that, and have at me.

Don't sell urself short,u were 12th!

[konstifik]

The fact that most toon in my defense stun to work with the mummy 2 turn taunt are prisoner fault too?

Well, The Prisoner does make it a lot harder to counter taunters and stunners, so yeah....

[ToTameAGame]

Well, The Prisoner does make it a lot harder to counter taunters and stunners, so yeah....

I give up now to sound like a broken record. Problem is that people with a Prisoner don't know how it is on the other side because they never take him off - so they can't see it. Why would they take him off (on the other hand)?

I'm just hoping that the counter measurements metioned by Sparton will come very soon and are effective.

[CanyptianFit]

Lord Schmeb, you are a hoot! That post made my day.

[tex-0775]

No AoF, Prisoner, Troll or Corrupt Rescuer. Just annoying greens + AoP. Couldn't bother shifting chars so defence/attack team the same \../

2555

[scott-5496]

My stats for the week and last week/best.

I have a Prisoner, A Troll and A HH and my defence still gets destroyed so to be honest I don't think Prisoner seems that OP to me as mine gets busted regularly. I also beat Prisoner teams as well - it is the taunters that are a pain but I like the struggle! I have lost no matches when I go first but I di need to sort my defence as it has good toons - I just cant have them set up right though I did get a lot of attacks last week - I didn't make any purchases or SoW either and just played the free refills (I think or I may have paid for a couple early in the week - can't quite remember).

So I am OK with whaere I am and what I get and I like the challenge - so I have no real problems with PVP as such but I agree with lots of other points made about number of attacks...and if you do want to get in top 25 you have to pay to play it would seems and no way I am going to do 700-800 attacks or whatever is needed - not got the time and want my troopers to be my play priority with intermittent PVP while SoT refill.

Still loving the game though. Just would like some new content like so many others and really not bothered about nerfs either and I know I have the Prisoner but as I said he gets owned plenty by others so with my low defence wins can he be that good....or am I really needing to sort out my talisman on my defence! LOL.

Up the Irons....oh and Maiden Scotland were awesome on Friday in Edinburgh...superb band!

2556

[ShadowedLies]

Attack 73% (110/151)
Defense 3% (1/30)
Rank 733

I (clearly) don't spend ironite on SoW refills so I don't get to attack much. I usually hover in the 1500 -> 1700 VP range.

[Sag7272]

I give up now to sound like a broken record. Problem is that people with a Prisoner don't know how it is on the other side because they never take him off - so they can't see it. Why would they take him off (on the other hand)?
I'm just hoping that the counter measurements metioned by Sparton will come very soon and are effective.

I've been on the other side man, also remember having to build a whole team around to work with him back then, sitting a strategic team member, change tallismans setup, rebuild strategy & synergy is way too more investment for a week & certainly not just to please you...


Well, The Prisoner does make it a lot harder to counter taunters and stunners, so yeah....

The fact that you can't counter is actually his fault that's right... But completely left field about what I'm talking about...
Again, you put everything on his shoulders & refuse to face what I said, forget him 2 min & without a hellhound or artillery dog on offence any stunner in his place be it another AoF or an AoS would bring the same synergy with the mummy taunt..

If I can image what I've ment by my comment...
Prisoner is a brick, a very important one don't get me wrong but you have to build a fk** wall not pile up some bricks in hope it doesn't crumble when it matters, it's a whole..
Prisoner or not, I had to build like 25 tallismans specifically for PvP & develop 3-4 if not more toons I would had let sit there otherwise because once again, everything have to work together to get those % up, any successful team will tell you that...

[BillLion]

Here my statistics

2550


I spent 0 (zero) ironite to refill SoW or refresh the attack list
Never cleared the whole attack list, only attacked higher ranked players to get more points. Mainly I attacked 2-3 targets from list and then waited until free refresh was available. Only attacked lower ranked players if I still had unused SoW and had to go to bed :)
My defense has a prisoner, but the win rate is pretty low. Maybe as result that I was attacked back by top players.


Really annoying were totally 10 lost battles, which I had to exit due to bugs reported in this post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4893-Arena-fight-stuck)

I don't know if I was not appearing on some attack lists, but the differences how often we are attacked can be partially also be explained, that the players can choose whom to attack. And some teams are less attractive as others.
My personal conclusion is not to attack a Mummy+SSD+CG combo :). As I have no toons who can grant passive immunitiy, even if I go first I then never got control of my team.

THIS is exhibit A of how unfair PVP currently is with the different amount of attacks that Nicko was pointing out. This player got rank 16, but was attacked only 10% as much as most players had to defend against.

This is not a dig on you, Rider; I'm pointing out the inequity of the system. Congrats on your rank!

[blade685]

Just give all best characters to everyone if you want a good pvp, new players don't loot so many of them

[Nicko]

THIS is exhibit A of how unfair PVP currently is with the different amount of attacks that Nicko was pointing out. This player got rank 16, but was attacked only 10% as much as most players had to defend against.

This is not a dig on you, Vadym; I'm pointing out the inequity of the system. Congrats on your rank!

Exactly. And I know people who follow this approach - attack/revenge just higher ranked teams - and get attacked the typical 300-400.

And absolutely agree not a dig on Rider. Or the buddy that Killhouse posted in a similar situation. They benefitted from a bug, pure and simple.

From the looks of things - this isn't a "strategy" that can be duplicated by others. This is a bug in the system.

And Vadym is my Trooper so if it has to be someone - glad it was him!

[gmac]

Just give all best characters to everyone if you want a good pvp, new players don't loot so many of them

Could not agree more, everybody should get the same chances, and no pay to play/win too!

I believe and hope sacrifice is coming to level the field a bit.

Cheers.

[compurocker]

Here are my week 2 stats (with Prisoner). Haven't attacked yet in week 3.

2557

[Lord Schmeb]

Off topic, but I am on match 6 in a row against Nicko, and he has gone first 6 out of 6. Not only that, but in 6 matches, I've been able to tap a character, i.e. attack, a grand total of THREE times. Match 6 isn't over yet, but I had to leave mid-fight before I ripped my own face off out of sheer frustration.

Cheerio.

[Lord Schmeb]

Holy come from behind win! Six in a row was not in the cards, Herr Nicko!


Those +18 have never tasted so good... 👍🏻👍🏻

[Nicko]

I was watching from the sidelines wondering how high the Hold count was going to get...

No way I'm revenging THAT sweet victory!

[Lord Schmeb]

I was watching from the sidelines wondering how high the Hold count was going to get...

No way I'm revenging THAT sweet victory!

Haha, you're a gentleman and a scholar. Back into mediocrity I go!

[Tritium]

I admire your dedication, Lord Schmeb! I saw you go at it a couple of rounds with me once as well. You have more patience than I have! :p

[ShadowedLies]

Came across Tritium and Gmac in my attack list for the first time ever, so decided to test y'alls defense. What we learned was Tritium will nuke my team to all holy hell, and Gmac let me live for 6 rounds, but didnt let me do anything. The take away is im nowhere near competetive enough for the top 100 with what I have. Expect to have my ass handed to me when y'all revenge. (:

[Ubajoa]

2566
My stats last week. I couldn't make it to the 25th, my wife graduated from university on saturday and I didn't have much time to play. Again I have no prisoner.

[Shaolin85london]

2566
My stats last week. I couldn't make it to the 25th, my wife graduated from university on saturday and I didn't have much time to play. Again I have no prisoner.

Congrats to your wife!

[Tritium]

Came across Tritium and Gmac in my attack list for the first time ever, so decided to test y'alls defense. What we learned was Tritium will nuke my team to all holy hell, and Gmac let me live for 6 rounds, but didnt let me do anything. The take away is im nowhere near competetive enough for the top 100 with what I have. Expect to have my ass handed to me when y'all revenge. (:

Haha, no worries! I like running into forum members' teams in PVP. It's always fun to see what everyone is running. I'd love to receive more feedback on my team ─ I haven't been able to come up with a great defense just yet, but my current one seems to have the best hold rate (even for my lack of a Prisoner and not using my AoP!). I've actually held against multiple people with Prisoners with it; makes me wish we could watch a replay of how the fight went so we could see how our defense works.

[ShadowedLies]

Haha, no worries! I like running into forum members' teams in PVP. It's always fun to see what everyone is running. I'd love to receive more feedback on my team ─ I haven't been able to come up with a great defense just yet, but my current one seems to have the best hold rate (even for my lack of a Prisoner and not using my AoP!). I've actually held against multiple people with Prisoners with it; makes me wish we could watch a replay of how the fight went so we could see how our defense works.

Your team made short work of mine. Want to say either 2 or 3 of 4 of my toons died the first round, and there was no way to recover. It was basically a rock through wet paper. Granted my offensive/defensive teams are definitely lacking. Was nice to be in the top 100 for a couple hours tho.

[Tritium]

I was unable to play for around a 9-hr period today (and also didn't fully use my SOW before being unable to play), and this truly showed me how big of a time sink PVP is. During that time, I went from around 1900-ish VP and rank 50-70 (can't remember exactly) to 1600-ish VP and rank 500+. Ugh. You really have to play PVP non-stop to get ahead and/or maintain your current rank.

On the other hand, I guess I can fool around with mid-ranked teams now. :rolleyes:

[Ringe666-7406]

Off topic, but I am on match 6 in a row against Nicko, and he has gone first 6 out of 6. Not only that, but in 6 matches, I've been able to tap a character, i.e. attack, a grand total of THREE times. Match 6 isn't over yet, but I had to leave mid-fight before I ripped my own face off out of sheer frustration.

Cheerio.

If it will make you fell better, I had a same thing yesterday at about the same time with HomemLivre... Kept doing it just to see how much can this "coin chance" push my sanity, but in the end it was just -90pts and ripping my face off. ;)

[Silentknight]

Hey Gmac! Attack #'s still going thru the roof?

[HomemLivre]

If it will make you fell better, I had a same thing yesterday at about the same time with HomemLivre... Kept doing it just to see how much can this "coin chance" push my sanity, but in the end it was just -90pts and ripping my face off. ;)

Im here to say that is totally true! Im just log to check hows the battles going and bang! 6 attacks from Ringe666 lol
But I know the feel, this coins drive me crazy sometimes!

[blade685]

Without prisoner, immune at first round and W troll pvp is too difficult
Work on it dev :D
I didn't have one of them :rolleyes:

[Rodrigo-3281]

Without prisoner, immune at first round and W troll pvp is too difficult
Work on it dev :D
I didn't have one of them :rolleyes:

I'm feeling the same. The amount of teams I see with a Warrior Troll keeps increasing and that's a definite advantage to those teams.

I get that I may not be the best at PvP and that's fine but seeing how valuable certain toons are when you don't have them makes it increasingly frustrating.

I don't know how Sacrifice will help this or not but my interest level in PvP keeps decreasing.

[blade685]

I'm feeling the same. The amount of teams I see with a Warrior Troll keeps increasing and that's a definite advantage to those teams.

I get that I may not be the best at PvP and that's fine but seeing how valuable certain toons are when you don't have them makes it increasingly frustrating.

I don't know how Sacrifice will help this or not but my interest level in PvP keeps decreasing.

Yes if you don't have that toons you can't be in top 10 it's stupid but the game is that for now....i just play pvp for points to buy skill shard and souls

[Silentknight]

I'm feeling the same. The amount of teams I see with a Warrior Troll keeps increasing and that's a definite advantage to those teams.

I get that I may not be the best at PvP and that's fine but seeing how valuable certain toons are when you don't have them makes it increasingly frustrating.

I don't know how Sacrifice will help this or not but my interest level in PvP keeps decreasing.
Would think with Mummy,CG,AOF &
SSD u should be able to compete. But yeah,no Prisoner or Warrior Troll hurts!

[blade685]

Would think with Mummy,CG,AOF &
SSD u should be able to compete. But yeah,no Prisoner or Warrior Troll hurts!

not for the top for sure, many battle are impossible to win :)

[Silentknight]

not for the top for sure, many battle are impossible to win :)

Hopefully Sacrifice helps u & isn't too far away!

[blade685]

Hopefully Sacrifice helps u & isn't too far away!

I will really play pvp (use ironite etc) only when i have a prisoner and W troll or immune toon
one day perhaps :cool:
For now i play your champion all days in pve (25 points for you and me) ;)

[Rodrigo-3281]

Would think with Mummy,CG,AOF &
SSD u should be able to compete. But yeah,no Prisoner or Warrior Troll hurts!

I was doing pretty good last week but this week has been pretty bad so far. The teams that are crushing me pretty much all have a Warrior Troll.
My Mummy has no skill shards currently. I just switched to him as seeing how good he is when I've faced him.

[Rodrigo-3281]

Yes if you don't have that toons you can't be in top 10 it's stupid but the game is that for now....i just play pvp for points to buy skill shard and souls

Same reason I'm playing. Though it's certainly disappointing when I used a Legendary Soul from PvP and I got a 2nd 4* Pharaoh Dog. :/

[Askora]

I'm not doing as good this week as I did last week. Part of it is the RNG gods are mad at me. My GRE hits once, and once only, every time. Opponents with GRE, hit me 6 or 7 times quite often. Shields not working, have seen that happen sometimes on the defense side as well. Miscellaneous other things that don't seem to be proc'ing right. To top it off, my entire list is comprised of people who are way below me. So, I attack them, they attack back and I end up going backwards in points. Hard to hit only people that are above you when you only get 1 or 2 on your list if you're lucky. Just fighting for the coins.

Another thought I had, was I wonder if the devs could throw in a new talisman with an immunity effect. That'd slow down mummy/ssd teams without debuff'ing them. Make it a 3 set, low stat bonus to keep people from stacking their team with it. Would help with the endless freeze and stun as well. Then it would be more about getting the AI to play well so that it's a challenge instead of a coin toss.

I did make a spreadsheet for playing around with character development. It's not the prettiest, and I'm sure there are some errors. Used the character guide on the forum and not sure but some of the talisman colors may have changed on some of the characters. Hopefully it helps someone out.

https://goo.gl/yyP0c1

2569

[MoonShadow]

I wish that after a while, the PvP arena will have more toons than the usual mummies, prisoners, angels of fear, trolls, hellhoundz, ssd's, blue soldiers and golden son assassins.... damn, there are so many characters in the game, why the most of them are only just for sale and not for play?!?

[Lord Schmeb]

I wish that after a while, the PvP arena will have more toons than the usual mummies, prisoners, angels of fear, trolls, hellhoundz, ssd's, blue soldiers and golden son assassins.... damn, there are so many characters in the game, why the most of them are only just for sale and not for play?!?

It's because everyone thinks you HAVE to have those big name toons to compete. Go thru your toons and double-check some of their abilities; think about how different talisman combos can complement those skills; now think of a way to counter the other 99.99% of people who just use the same old boring toons.

I use at least one 2* character, and often two of them on the same team, on almost every attack. I don't have a CG, Troll, Gunner/Assassin Golden Son, red or blue bat. (Did get green bat on a legendary soul a few days ago, although the verdict is still out on him -- haven't figured out any type of decent combo/synergy with other toons yet.) I finished top 13 last week, and while I blew a lot of ironite, someone with a little bit better hold on their emotions (like NOT letting Nicko beat them 5 in a row just b/c I hate losing!), and a firmer grasp on the dynamics of points/rank, doesn't need those alleged Uber-toons to be on top.

The point is, avoid trying to copy what everyone else is doing. Do you not see that IF the nerf bat swings, it'll be on those characters that everyone bitches about. On top of that, people are figuring out how to beat them anyway... be sneaky, use a no-name toon, fly under the radar, win.

[Sag7272]

It's because everyone thinks you HAVE to have those big name toons to compete. Go thru your toons and double-check some of their abilities; think about how different talisman combos can complement those skills; now think of a way to counter the other 99.99% of people who just use the same old boring toons.

I use at least one 2* character, and often two of them on the same team, on almost every attack. I don't have a CG, Troll, Gunner/Assassin Golden Son, red or blue bat. (Did get green bat on a legendary soul a few days ago, although the verdict is still out on him -- haven't figured out any type of decent combo/synergy with other toons yet.) I finished top 13 last week, and while I blew a lot of ironite, someone with a little bit better hold on their emotions (like NOT letting Nicko beat them 5 in a row just b/c I hate losing!), and a firmer grasp on the dynamics of points/rank, doesn't need those alleged Uber-toons to be on top.

The point is, avoid trying to copy what everyone else is doing. Do you not see that IF the nerf bat swings, it'll be on those characters that everyone bitches about. On top of that, people are figuring out how to beat them anyway... be sneaky, use a no-name toon, fly under the radar, win.

So true, most of times when I loose one badly it's vs an "odd" team with different strategies than usual... I guess we'll see more & more of different stuff over time... Ppl need time to build/test new teams now it's a matter of tested & true... Built one myself, still lack too many shards to out it now & I'm sure I'm not alone in that case, it's partly due to the game pace who limits it for now..

[Nicko]

I use a number of different characters on offense - but on defense it's hard to vary. Simply put - AI is more Artificial Idiocy than Artificial Intelligence, so the disablers give it a fighting chance.

It's my fear about Immunity Talismans or nerfing Mummy/SSD. Take away the disabling and Defensive Hold rates will be 5%. Can see having them - but maybe as rare as Comet Talismans

[Nicko]

Case in point - fought ShaolinLondo yesterday. His Gunner CR (a great character) thought it better to fire into a Void Shield than revive his teammate. This type stuff will really make defenses useless without the disablers

[Lord Schmeb]

I use a number of different characters on offense - but on defense it's hard to vary. Simply put - AI is more Artificial Idiocy than Artificial Intelligence, so the disablers give it a fighting chance.

It's my fear about Immunity Talismans or nerfing Mummy/SSD. Take away the disabling and Defensive Hold rates will be 5%. Can see having them - but maybe as rare as Comet Talismans

I agree with this. I have a SSD, but switch him in and out frequently because, while I think the taunt/crowd control is nice, I'd rather figure out a strategy that works more often b/c of what I WANT to happen, versus what the AI and alleged proc rate brings to the table. While I absolutely LOATHE having my entire team wiped out before I even get a chance to tap my screen even once, it is becoming more and more less frequent. Two weeks ago I was getting taunted/stunned into oblivion, now I'm losing only half the battles that I normally would've lost -- and each day brings more success as I test out new ideas and strategies.

I'd wager 95% of us have the toons I use most (and have the most success with so far against stunner/taunter teams) just sitting on the sideline, collecting dust. Not one of mine is fully sharded either, so there's that to consider as well. Again, screw what everyone else is doing -- think outside the box -- and while it may be rough at first, in a few weeks when 90% of the arena is populated with the same old shit that we've all learned to beat, you'll be the new enigma that needs to be cracked, and folks will start to copy you...

Or you could just buy yourself a Troll, Prisoner, AGS, and Cyborg, win the weekly prizes and tell yourself that you're not a loser -- deep down in your heart of hearts -- if all you care about is seeing your name on the splash screen for a week...

[Askora]

Thought I'd share my thoughts on the issue with taunt teams. It's about the numbers. I don't have a SSD to verify, but unless he got a debuff, he's one of the best for pvp. He has a 40% chance to taunt each character, make him all green slots since his damage is based on HP. So, you use all Mystical to build DEF and MR, pair that up with Blind and Paralysis and the the numbers add up. He will hit each member of your team with at least one of those effects a little over 50% of the time. Mummy is worse with a 45% chance to taunt, only slightly balanced by the fact that he can't carry as many HP, but give him some Freezing capability along with Blind or Paralysis and his odds are a little over 55% chance to hit each of your characters with an effect. There's math to it, but I just cheated with an excel spreadsheet. It calculates the odds for 1,000 hits and gets roughly the same result every time. There is random, and there is stacking the odds. That's what makes it work, especially with AI that isn't very I. The odds get worse when you add it up over 4 characters, I didn't calculate that one, but I'm sure it gets it into at least the 60-70% range that one character will be effected. People can argue that if you flip a coin 1,000 times you have a 50% chance heads every time, but this is basically flipping that coin 1,000 times and giving you three tries each of those 1,000 times to get heads. Worse, that's per character, when you go against the whole team, it's flipping it 1,000 times and giving you 12 tries each of those 1,000 times.

All of that said, I hate to speak in favor of debuffing. My team is not a mummy team as I don't have the right other members to make it work. If I did, that would probably be my defense. I do think the taunt odds are rather high, and hitting the whole team makes it even higher. Maybe they do need to be debuffed. If they hit only one player it would at least cut the odds considerably.

[Lord Schmeb]

Thought I'd share my thoughts on the issue with taunt teams. It's about the numbers. I don't have a SSD to verify, but unless he got a debuff, he's one of the best for pvp. He has a 40% chance to taunt each character, make him all green slots since his damage is based on HP. So, you use all Mystical to build DEF and MR, pair that up with Blind and Paralysis and the the numbers add up. He will hit each member of your team with at least one of those effects a little over 50% of the time. Mummy is worse with a 45% chance to taunt, only slightly balanced by the fact that he can't carry as many HP, but give him some Freezing capability along with Blind or Paralysis and his odds are a little over 55% chance to hit each of your characters with an effect. There's math to it, but I just cheated with an excel spreadsheet. It calculates the odds for 1,000 hits and gets roughly the same result every time. There is random, and there is stacking the odds. That's what makes it work, especially with AI that isn't very I. The odds get worse when you add it up over 4 characters, I didn't calculate that one, but I'm sure it gets it into at least the 60-70% range that one character will be effected. People can argue that if you flip a coin 1,000 times you have a 50% chance heads every time, but this is basically flipping that coin 1,000 times and giving you three tries each of those 1,000 times to get heads. Worse, that's per character, when you go against the whole team, it's flipping it 1,000 times and giving you 12 tries each of those 1,000 times.

All of that said, I hate to speak in favor of debuffing. My team is not a mummy team as I don't have the right other members to make it work. If I did, that would probably be my defense. I do think the taunt odds are rather high, and hitting the whole team makes it even higher. Maybe they do need to be debuffed. If they hit only one player it would at least cut the odds considerably.

I don't use a Mummy either, mostly because I hate everything about him, but also because it's so easy to work around his taunts, as well as the SSD. Sure, I get drilled every once in a while, but I'd much rather go against a Mummy over a GR any day.

[Tritium]

I fear that what Nicko said earlier would ring true if Mummy/SSD were nerfed/"balanced" in some way ─ everyone's defenses would be complete crap and our hold rates would hover around 5% (maybe in the teens for those with Prisoners). Face it guys, if those toons get changed for the worse, your complaints will switch from being annoyed at losing to taunting teams to being annoyed that your defense can't hold anyone and you therefore lose hundreds of points overnight. Also, the CG will become the next defensive meta toon to have on your team. Do we really want that? I know I don't. I believe the taunt teams, for as annoying as they are to face, are perfectly fine as they are right now. Any changes to them will make PVP even more of a bad experience for many players. For now, I suggest we all do what Schmeb said and become creative with the toons we use. There are bound to be great PVP toons that nobody has touched yet.

[Askora]

The big problem is the AI. I can beat mummy teams when I'm playing offense, because I get to choose what my toons do. On defense you don't get a say, so the best bet is to force the offensive player into the same boat. If you lose the coin toss, then a taunt team if built right can easily take your team down without you getting a chance to fight. I don't have to worry so much about losing my passives to the prisoner, since I have next to no toons with good passives. The book of disappointing souls isn't my friend. Even my legendary last week was lame. Right now, I'm more just working on getting talismans leveled up to work with the toons I've got. I can't do much to improve my defensive odds, but I can at least raise my offensive ones.

[Silentknight]

Wow!!! Awfully quiet!

[Silentknight]

Could run around naked in here! Lmao!

[Aristo4]

Game's shutting down next week, haven't you heard?

[Silentknight]

Was lol @ Gmac yesterday,filling all his trooper spots. Figure I'll hit him up next vacancy,might as well get something back for all the 'juice points' he's been stealing off me all week. Then I thot that soon there'll be no need for New Trooper threads as we will all be each others troopers. On the plus side,at least we're all getting lots of badges

[slauki]

Was lol @ Gmac yesterday,filling all his trooper spots. Figure I'll hit him up next vacancy,might as well get something back for all the 'juice points' he's been stealing off me all week. Then I thot that soon there'll be no need for New Trooper threads as we will all be each others troopers. On the plus side,at least we're all getting lots of badges

if the trend continues there will only be 50 players who still play this game, so every member has to be the trooper of every other member, if we wanna fill up the slots with actives :D

[Silentknight]

if the trend continues there will only be 50 players who still play this game, so every member has to be the trooper of every other member, if we wanna fill up the slots with actives :D

If I click the ranking tab & then the trooper tab...lmao. I'm sure others look even worse/better. Bad 4 me as I only attack higher ranks. Top 25 was my goal,wasted SoW last Sunday,only did 3 refills this week (2 cuz I was bored).
-300 points from 10th. Yeah,could be done,but for what??? U c my legendary pull last week? Red eyes for an AoP....seriously,WTF? About my 4th one & the rest didn't come from the most expensive soul in the game.

[Askora]

I've played way less pvp this week. I was in the top 100 last time I checked, although probably won't be there at reset. But, I don't seem to be on anyone's lists as I never get attacked first, that or I'm way below them. If I'm lucky, my list has has one or two players higher then me. Generally it's filled with people who are way below me. If I refresh, it only gets worse. The way the point system is set up, attacking someone below me will only bring my score down. So, just earning iron coins to buy shards and more harpies, axis soldiers or whatever the book of souls seems to think I need more of.

[Silentknight]

I've played way less pvp this week. I was in the top 100 last time I checked, although probably won't be there at reset. But, I don't seem to be on anyone's lists as I never get attacked first, that or I'm way below them. If I'm lucky, my list has has one or two players higher then me. Generally it's filled with people who are way below me. If I refresh, it only gets worse. The way the point system is set up, attacking someone below me will only bring my score down. So, just earning iron coins to buy shards and more harpies, axis soldiers or whatever the book of souls seems to think I need more of.
All lists look like that & point system is a joke. Lots have bitched,falling on deaf ears!!! Nodding Off Frog! Bout all u can do is keep refreshing list. Don't even get me started on revenge limits!

[Silentknight]

Very nice run Gmac! Well played! Can't revenge due to these stupid limits!!!

[gmac]

Very nice run Gmac! Well played! Can't revenge due to these stupid limits!!!

@SilentKnight - Thx, today was cool! About revenge, never thought of it this way, but good point!

@ShaolinLondo - Nice battle! Congrats on the podium.

Glad FallenAngel made top 5.

[Tritium]

Made a fun push in the last few hours to place in the 50s. I even faced Jofer and came out 2/4 having no Prisoner of my own. I've found that I can almost always beat a Prisoner team if I go first with my anti-Prisoner team comp. However, if I go second, I'm generally toast (although there have been a few times where I managed to recover and win). It feels pretty awesome pulling that off without having my own gimp to play with and by using some toons that are completely unsharded.

[Silentknight]

@SilentKnight - Thx, today was cool! About revenge, never thought of it this way, but good point!

@ShaolinLondo - Nice battle! Congrats on the podium.

Glad FallenAngel made top 5.

Np on attacks. I'd do the same. Nature of the beast,hate the game not the player,etc. Ur never on my list???
Yep,FallenAngel's a trooper. Hard to cheer for someone when half the top 10 are troopers,lmao!

[Silentknight]

Made a fun push in the last few hours to place in the 50s. I even faced Jofer and came out 2/4 having no Prisoner of my own. I've found that I can almost always beat a Prisoner team if I go first with my anti-Prisoner team comp. However, if I go second, I'm generally toast (although there have been a few times where I managed to recover and win). It feels pretty awesome pulling that off without having my own gimp to play with and by using some toons that are completely unsharded.

Jofer's not that tough, although I have a Prisoner. Must play all day & night. I have better luck against him than Nicko or Sag.

[Ian]

Can't get my stats right now because my phone was about to die, but this week I made a real push for a better rank - even spend some ironite. the result: still stuck at duelist I because everytime I finished attacking, I see two people have attacked me and my VP has barely moved or even gone down. Felt like running up a hill tied to a bungee cord. Literally couldn't make progress. I could have thrown more and more ironite at it, but I thought "screw this" - no guarantee ironite would help - just a chance to have more attacks followed by more revenges and I am still stuck. System kind of sucks. I will get my iron coins and be done with it.

No i dont have a Prisoner, CG, or loads of other toons that I would like. No I will not be the obsessive who spends all of my saturday playing a game on my phone. No i have zero goodwill left for the developers, and no I won't bother spending real cash on such a system.

[Kris-0707]

I finished at rank 9, quite tough to get into first 5 without playing stupid mummy and/or SSD.

2581

Below is the video to my "rewards".

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrKn3AELMuc&feature=youtu.be)

I decided to not pay too much attention to pvp this week. Will not spend any ironite for SoW until devs will fix / nerf mummies/ssd, taunt, stun & freeze. As I mentioned in THAT TOPIC (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4941-My-thoughts-about-balance) PVP as it looks right now is not fun.

[HomemLivre]

Have Nicko created a new thread for this week?

Im still disapointed to see people getting attacked 200- when others get 400 to 500...

[Nicko]

On it as you type ;)

[HomemLivre]

On it as you type ;)

Nice hehehe! :p

[Kamuz24z]

I finished at rank 9, quite tough to get into first 5 without playing stupid mummy and/or SSD.

2581

Below is the video to my "rewards".

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrKn3AELMuc&feature=youtu.be)

I decided to not pay too much attention to pvp this week. Will not spend any ironite for SoW until devs will fix / nerf mummies/ssd, taunt, stun & freeze. As I mentioned in THAT TOPIC (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4941-My-thoughts-about-balance) PVP as it looks right now is not fun.

Congrats kris rank 9