March 9th 2017 Update Discussion

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss general changes from the recent update.

You can see the details of the update that has just gone live in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4980).

[gmac]

Hi Sparton

Do Nautical Souls work the same as Christmas and Halloween? (chance to get toons from all classes?)

Can´t wait to try those new talismans!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Do Nautical Soul work the same as Christmas and Halloween? (chance to get toons from all classes?)

Yes, but these also have an increased chance of getting 4 stars, too!

[zdm-1083]

Great to have new sets of talisman :)

I don't catch:
"Each of the 3 subtypes per talisman can be purchased once a week from the PVP Store for 400 Iron Coins each."

We could buy 1 subtype by 1 or in store they came by 2 for each subtype?

[Tritium]

Yes, but these also have an increased chance of getting 4 stars, too!

Ooh, these new souls sound great! Thanks for letting us know how badass they are. ;)

Also, Navigator Eddie looks incredible on paper. Can't wait to see how this guy plays out in PVE and PVP. Something tells me he'll be the next best PVE farming toon!

[Ringe666-7406]

Is there any chance to fix Prisoner, as he can transfer Seal from himself to my toons with his basic skill even if they are immune, or invisible, or even both at the same time? Thanks a lot

[slauki]

great move with the talismans, really happy about them. hope they will work as intended.
just sorry to see, that there is no pvp tuning regarind the pointsystem which is a pain for most of us...

but at least a very important progress in balancing as it seems for now...

[Coletrain]

Yes, but these also have an increased chance of getting 4 stars, too!

Assuming we buy Nautical souls now and hold off on opening them until sacrifice is released, will those souls keep their increased chance for 4 star characters in perpetuity?

[gmac]

Sparton/Kaz,

Will siege take down the new talismans effects at the start of the battle? (if it´s only one set)

Seems to me this will be an update do remember! (in a good way!)

[Tritium]

I can already report that the "chest lag" upon the enemy dying seems to be gone! This is a welcome fix. Thank you devs for finding the cause of that bug and fixing it!

[Nine]

What's the reason that the newly introduced Talismans are purchasable for a limited time only?

They sound be pretty essential - and I am not sure that's a good thing, although I am confident the variaty in PvP will increase in the short term. Do you plan on making them available by other means after that? Wouldn't be encouraging for players starting in the future to find out they are late to the party. Speaking of that, I still want a Guard set :p

Bleed still does no damage :(

[mjmxiii]

I notice that skill shards and rare GA souls now appear in all drop info for secret locations... is this an unmentioned part of the update or have I just not noticed this before?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Is there any chance to fix Prisoner, as he can transfer Seal from himself to my toons with his basic skill even if they are immune, or invisible, or even both at the same time? Thanks a lot

This is a bug we're aware of, but I don't have a timeline for when that'll be fixed.


just sorry to see, that there is no pvp tuning regarind the pointsystem which is a pain for most of us...

Yeah, we were not able to get the changes we wanted implemented in time for the update, but we should have a variety of improvements for the next major update.


Assuming we buy Nautical souls now and hold off on opening them until sacrifice is released, will those souls keep their increased chance for 4 star characters in perpetuity?

They will, you just won't be able to get more of them.


Will siege take down the new talismans effects at the start of the battle? (if it´s only one set)

Yes; since it is a beneficial effect, it will have it's duration reduced by 1, just like passives.

Unlike passives, it's not generated by a character's passive, so...


What's the reason that the newly introduced Talismans are purchasable for a limited time only?

We wanted to save these (along with many other new and powerful talismans) for the Brave New World. However, there's a clear hole in the PVP meta for answering strong CC from certain team comps, so we felt it better to get these out sooner to see if this helps mix up the meta, and to have a new kind of item for people to look forward to earning from Iron Coins.


Bleed still does no damage :(

What characters and/or skills are you seeing this happen with?


I notice that skill shards and rare GA souls now appear in all drop info for secret locations... is this an unmentioned part of the update or have I just not noticed this before?

That's actually always been the case, they're just exceedingly rare in the earlier secret locations.

[Tritium]

What characters and/or skills are you seeing this happen with?


I know for a fact that Warrior Rocket Dog (and his Assassin counterpart as well) doesn't do any damage with his bleed, but it does proc the heal block effect.

[PerthEddie]

If this has has been mentioned then apologies as I have missed it but how long is the limited event on for? Also, do Rare Souls we have in stock give this increased chance of drops?

This might screw up my plan! I have 11 RS in stock and I should get the Rent a Trooper (6000) achievement in about 2 weeks. I was going to save them all up until the end of March and buy another couple of RS mega packs. Might have to bring it all forward now!!!!!!

Oh the loading times are an awful lot quicker - thanks for the work on that :)

[Nine]

What characters and/or skills are you seeing this happen with?


It is indeed the Assassin Rocket Dog Tritium mentiones. However, I have to say that his Heal Block doesn't work all the time either (and of course I mean if it has proc'd). I think "passive" healing skills that heal at the end of the enemy's turn aren't affected, e.g. the health drain by Grim Reaper or Magus Golden Son via debuff, possibly because the debuff ticks down one fraction of a second before the heal comes in.

Edit: thinking of it, I might confuse it with the Buff of for example the Sentinel Pyro, regen HP ... but it may even be both of them

[R1ck]

1 talisman 400 coins, so 2 talismans 800 for 1 set? It is too much , many of us only play the free SoW and it is very hard to get 400 coins. Why so much when other talismans just drop for free.

[slauki]

really nice tweaks so far, but i have one question. do two sets of the new talisman stack?

because i tried the talismans with the hellhound and siege removed the immunity. two icons of immunity were shown, and they instanly disappeared.
so one set of talismans is useless against siege. will two sets help us then? maybe it would be better if they would stack, but not sure right now.

imo that's a problem, although i really love my blue bat :)

[Kaz_LOTB]

really nice tweaks so far, but i have one question. do two sets of the new talisman stack?

because i tried the talismans with the hellhound and siege removed the immunity. two icons of immunity were shown, and they instanly disappeared.
so one set of talismans is useless against siege. will two sets help us then? maybe it would be better if they would stack, but not sure right now.

imo that's a problem, although i really love my blue bat :)

Yes, the duration of Talisman Passives such as these do stack, so you can have multiple turns of Immunity or Damage Reduction at the start of battle.

-Kaz

[Liebhild]

If siege can take down the new talismans, then they are useless. At least one more week of useless StunTauntFest. And more pay2win. More of such great changes and I will have lots of more free space on my device.

[MetalWarrior]

Nice update overall with performance/compatibility issues.. Thanks.
FYI : Game Freezes when attempted to summon BNW Souls

2597

[Sparton_LOTB]

I know for a fact that Warrior Rocket Dog (and his Assassin counterpart as well) doesn't do any damage with his bleed, but it does proc the heal block effect.

Ah, k, Kaz thinks he sees where the problem is for the War Machine skill data, so we'll get that fixed for a subsequent update.


If this has has been mentioned then apologies as I have missed it but how long is the limited event on for?

Huh, we missed adding that to the news feed and interstitial. Sorry about that.

The Nautical Souls will be available in the store until Mar. 25th, 5 PM PST / Mar. 26th, 1 AM GMT.*

*Daylight savings happens this weekend, so make note of changes to things like daily resets and PVP resets.


Also, do Rare Souls we have in stock give this increased chance of drops?

Rare souls are not affected (and as a reminder, the regular rare souls only drop Warrior/Sentinel/Magus characters).


really nice tweaks so far, but i have one question. do two sets of the new talisman stack?

because i tried the talismans with the hellhound and siege removed the immunity. two icons of immunity were shown, and they instanly disappeared.
so one set of talismans is useless against siege. will two sets help us then? maybe it would be better if they would stack, but not sure right now.

Adding on to what Kaz mentioned... since the Hellhound only gives you 1 turn and one Immunity set only gives you 1 turn, that's why you saw what you saw against an Angel of Pain.

Two Immunity sets will stack with each other to increase duration, but two separate instances of 1 turn duration don't stack with each other (like other instances of status effects in the game).


FYI : Game Freezes when attempted to summon BNW Souls

Man, people still have some of those?

In any case, we'll look into that.

[Frost]

Got Aces High Eddie... And 9 3* dupes.

And you didn't fix f'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris, he's even more powerfull with the new sets...

Shame on you Blizzard.

[Chaosego888]

I can already report that the "chest lag" upon the enemy dying seems to be gone! This is a welcome fix. Thank you devs for finding the cause of that bug and fixing it!Second that...Was able to play troopers a lot faster, still need to be able to play more than one at a time though

[Chaosego888]

Will there be a higher chance of getting Navigator Eddie during the limited time? Will the limited talismans be in the store after event? ...just don't want to spend the iron coins and have an odd number of them. Will something be done about revenge limits, just got attacked by Jofer 4 times in 19 minutes, can't revenge any of them

[Nicko]

Just got attacked by Jofer 4 times in 19 minutes, can't revenge any of them

Yup. This revenge limit sucks without attack limits.

[Caretaker]

Great loading improvement!

But yellow immunity talis? Shouldn't that be given in all colours? Perhaps in future updates..
this way, what we are about to whitness are same powered + immune prisoners, non stunnable, non tauntable, non freezable, non blindable. If that's what's intended than a good job it is! GG!
Just give me the prisoner, just add it to my inventory, I don't even want to soul-pull it :) preety please with cherry on top :) I can pay let's say 150 USD from the store, you know my mastercard is good for it. Heck, let me buy 3 :) that's not a bad idea, buy the prisoner. That would stop all discusion and efforts and fill in the budget.

Bit more sugar.. are we sure prisoner can't transfer 'perfect corruption'? If so, coding is there for all the other transfering issues. Maybe that would help you out dealing with that, but I'm sure things work just as it is intended.
I think I'll be back in a year or so when I get my own prisoner. I still think he should steal benefs while transfering negs.

[Patrice-1201]

My only fear is that Prisoner will become even more dangerous with immunity...

[satani]

Well, I spent my ~2000 ironite (cause i refused to buy "simple" rare souls due to the lack of "good" characters that can drop from them) and got lucky.

Both devices dropped me the Navigator Eddie! (one soul dropped me also a assassin corrupt harpye - not an overkill, but ok.)

On one device, i have still 25 souls left.

Navigator Eddie on paper looks promising. 3 yellow slots are good for my invisibility talismans. His fury looks good.
I'll definitively looking forward to using him.

[Mizrael]

So...i went berserk and bought the legendary package for 100CHF...

Legendary soul: warrior rocket dog
5 Rare souls: wicker dog king,queen and 3xMasked harpy
40 nautical souls: the only thing worth mentioning was Tailgunner,death dog and the wickerman(3rd copy). Not a single 5* character, just looooooads of harpies, allied soldiers and owl cultists.

So i spent another 10CHF to get another 900 ironite: Visions Eddie,magus CotD and 8xTrash

No navigator for me...

[Liebhild]

Hmm, those new talismans don't help the whole group?

[Valgard]

I usually try to be positive with all what the devs do. I know theirs isn't an easy job and I fully support them, but this time I'm highly disappointed with this patch. I think that, apart from bug fixes, none of these new features were promised or really needed for us players. Meanwhile, we all are still waiting for some new, long awaited, and (I hope) cool features.

I want to review each of these new features in a critic but positive way:

Navigator Eddie: A new Eddie that doesn't exist anywhere that I remember of on any Maiden album, tour, or t-shirt artwork. I'm not saying his skills or stats are a waste, but we are Iron Maiden fans, we get illusioned for having Eddies that we grew to love like the Trooper, Seventh Son, the Clansman, Piece of Mind, Live After Death, Flight of Icarus, the Final Frontier or any other in Maiden's almost 40-year history catalog. There are about 50 different Eddies counting albums and tours alone, and we'll have our heads explode for most of them. I'm not waiting for an Eddie in a pirate Halloween costume. What's next? An Eddie dressed as a cowboy? I think that this same character but with the appearance of, let's say, the Live at Donington cover Eddie, would blow our minds.
Two new talisman sets: I feel that the reason for creating these new talismans is to fill the hole for those players who don't have a warrior troll, a hell hound or an artillery dog. Without counting the possibility that giving one of these to characters such as the Prisoner would radically overpower them (you devs have put a lot of work before to avoid these sort of things happening), I would have gladly preferred waiting for major fixes for these characters, or releasing new toons with similar skills in the upcoming worlds or dungeons.
Navigator Souls: For most veteran players like me, we cannot held any more new characters in our full-of-duplicates inventories without asking to ourselves: "Where is Sacrifice?". I don't understand why this feature is taking so long. I 'm not a stranger to computer programming, and so I can't believe this is as hard as designing new characters or even new dungeons or campaign worlds. I think I began seeing things about Sacrifice around October or November: that was 4 or 5 months ago! Please, devs, make this happen once and for all.


If you ask me what I think is what the game needs right now, I would answer these two things:

Sacrifice, to unchain our character inventories from this dependency on duplicates, then we'll have full liberty to search for new characters anytime.
The Brave New World dungeon, to help us upgrade our talismans as good as we do with our characters in Lord of Light.


As a final note, I want to say that I love Iron Maiden and I like this game despite all the drawbacks we suffered in the past. I hope this text serves to help devs go in the right direction and I apologize for any offense I may have said.

[Patrice-1201]

Navigator Eddie: A new Eddie that doesn't exist anywhere that I remember of on any Maiden album, tour, or t-shirt artwork. I'm not saying his skills or stats are a waste, but we are Iron Maiden fans, we get illusioned for having Eddies that we grew to love like the Trooper, Seventh Son, the Clansman, Piece of Mind, Live After Death, Flight of Icarus, the Final Frontier or any other in Maiden's almost 40-year history catalog. There are about 50 different Eddies counting albums and tours alone, and we'll have our heads explode for most of them. I'm not waiting for an Eddie in a pirate Halloween costume. What's next? An Eddie dressed as a cowboy? I think that this same character but with the appearance of, let's say, the Live at Donington cover Eddie, would blow our minds.


he could be from Ghost of Navigator or Rime of the Ancient Mariner though ;-)

[Kardas]

Navigator Eddie: A new Eddie that doesn't exist anywhere that I remember of on any Maiden album, tour, or t-shirt artwork.
Like Patrice-1201 said, he's very strongly based on the Ghost of the Navigator song, with a little bit of Rime of the Ancient Mariner. Names of moves like "Final Journey" and "Crashing Rocks" are dead ringers for Ghost of the Navigator.

Also thanks for the new update! Soldier's my only Gunner Eddie so here's hoping I can try him out. Pirates always were my favorite in the pirate/ninja/viking trifecta anyway.

+1 to the suggestion to drop Shell and Immunity Talismans in the BNW dungeon once it's out. I'm sure they also have great use for PVE. Immunity Talismans are good in niche occasions like fighting Corrupt General, Corrupt Harpies and Sentinel Demons, while Shell Talismans are great insurance for grinding on auto if the AI does something stupid (like an Assassin Golden Son casting Endure when one hit will wreck the three enemies with red HP).

I have two questions Sparton:
1. Do Shell and Immunity Talismans apply to the whole team, or only the user?
2. Navigator Eddie's Roaring Wave move refers to Dealing "increased damage for each harmful effect on the enemy". Does that refer to any old debuff (DEF Down, Smite, Doom, Heal Block, etc) or specifically damage over time effects (Burn, Freeze, Bleed, etc)

In the meantime, I'll go update all my reference threads to add info on the new Talismans and character

[mikmar]

But I don't know the chances to get a new char or a 4* char, because I spent 1800 ironite for two 10 navigator souls pack and the best char I get is gunner rockets, that I already have, only crap, no 4* soul !!!!
Very disappointing !!!!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Will there be a higher chance of getting Navigator Eddie during the limited time?

The Nautical Souls have an increased chance to get the Navigator Eddie relative to other souls.


Will the limited talismans be in the store after event?

They will be available for at least a few weeks from the PVP Store. The end date for them being purchasable with Iron Coins has not been decided yet.


Will something be done about revenge limits, just got attacked by Jofer 4 times in 19 minutes, can't revenge any of them

We are working on various changes for a subsequent update to reduce the likelihood of this occurring.


But yellow immunity talis? Shouldn't that be given in all colours? Perhaps in future updates..

We do not plan on adding Immunity talismans in other colours; other colours will get their own interesting tools in the future.


Two new talisman sets: I feel that the reason for creating these new talismans is to fill the hole for those players who don't have a warrior troll, a hell hound or an artillery dog. Without counting the possibility that giving one of these to characters such as the Prisoner would radically overpower them (you devs have put a lot of work before to avoid these sort of things happening), I would have gladly preferred waiting for major fixes for these characters, or releasing new toons with similar skills in the upcoming worlds or dungeons.

As evident in the last few updates having less and less character tuning, while we will do some adjustments as part of the ongoing maintenance of the game, we don't want to adjust and revise characters as much as we have in the past.

Also, while we do want to add other characters with interesting and similar defensive passives like the characters you listed, we want to introduce other defensive options that don't all feed into "Prisoner counters all", which is why we wanted to start with these defensive talismans.


Navigator Souls: For most veteran players like me, we cannot held any more new characters in our full-of-duplicates inventories without asking to ourselves: "Where is Sacrifice?".

While we still don't have a date or exact timeframe to announce, the feature is approaching completion, and we hope to release it fairly soon.


he could be from Ghost of Navigator or Rime of the Ancient Mariner though ;-)


Like Patrice-1201 said, he's very strongly based on the Ghost of the Navigator song, with a little bit of Rime of the Ancient Mariner. Names of moves like "Final Journey" and "Crashing Rocks" are dead ringers for Ghost of the Navigator.

Precisely the inspirations, yes!


1. Do Shell and Immunity Talismans apply to the whole team, or only the user?
2. Navigator Eddie's Roaring Wave move refers to Dealing "increased damage for each harmful effect on the enemy". Does that refer to any old debuff (DEF Down, Smite, Doom, Heal Block, etc) or specifically damage over time effects (Burn, Freeze, Bleed, etc)

1. Only the character equipped with the talisman.
2. All debuffs, which includes the examples you listed and damage over time effects.


In the meantime, I'll go update all my reference threads to add info on the new Talismans and character

You're a good man for maintaining those community resources; we as developers appreciate the great work you've done for the community.

[URock]

How to get the Navigator Eddie from other souls than the new Nautical Souls?

Is it possible to get him from normal souls or only Gunner Souls?

[Hornetaker]

1. Only the character equipped with the talisman.


Really?! You're saying that an opponent would have to have 4 talismans on each of their characters to "buy" a round free of harassment from my stun/taunt/freeze/blind-defense (backed by a siege passive)?! That is disappointing! I'm not proud of this defense but it is the only combination that keeps my defense rate around 20%...

So 16 (!!!!!) talismans are necessary to achieve the same effect as a Prisoner and a HH/AD!? Quite frankly, those talismans are worthless...

Sorry for the rant but I'm very disappointed by this update....

[satani]

Really?! You're saying that an opponent would have to have 4 talismans on each of their characters to "buy" a round free of harassment from my stun/taunt/freeze/blind-defense (backed by a siege passive)?! That is disappointing! I'm not proud of this defense but it is the only combination that keeps my defense rate around 20%...

So 16 (!!!!!) talismans are necessary to achieve the same effect as a Prisoner and a HH/AD!? Quite frankly, those talismans are worthless...

Sorry for the rant but I'm very disappointed by this update....

well, 2 talismans to immune-buff a complete team? Then why would i try to get HH?
Assassin Rocket Dog and others who grant immunity do also grant immunity for one.

I'm glad, the prisoner is still not nerved. (yet IMO there are far more deadly combinations than a prisoner: pair a mummy with SSD, for example)

[Hornetaker]

well, 2 talismans to immune-buff a complete team?

I agree but I feel like you have to sacrifice too much offense to have some immunity (even interesting for people with a HH/AD as this cannot be countered by the Prisoner). I would be fine to tank one character to get a team buff. Make it a 3- or 4-set to grant immunity for the whole team for two turns (one with siege).

I know how annoying the mummy/ssd combination is. I run it on defense but I hate it. There is not tactic involved but it is the best defense that is available to most of us. I would love to see more options to scheme on defense which includes a good counter to my defense.

I agree. I don't have a Prisoner but nerfing him would be a terrible choice. He is legendary and deserves to be a good char.

Again, I'm sorry for my previous rant but I was hoping for real improvement and not for hasty hot-fixes. (Call me a dreamer :p)

Cheers,
Hornet

[slauki]

there seem to be a problem with the immunity talismans. my green bat took burn effects which were reflected from my own pyrosoldier (troll/prisoner/mummy/ssd opponent, Hi nicko :D ) while immunity were on. the burns removed my casted immunity and i lost the match. would be nice if you could look into this, i will test it further.

at least there is more balance on the horizon :-).

btw, the costs of the talismans are very high. i expect to get them for free when BNW arives, if i'm right it's extremly expensive to sell them for 400 coins each. at least a set for 400 would be fair imo.

EDIT: i remember right now, that greenbat took a 2nd burn effect during the fight before the shields were removed (prolly tranfered from the prisoner?). so it might be a problem with immunity vs burns in general, not a talisman problem!

[konstifik]

So, now Prisoner teams can start with Immunity and/or Shields without having to use Troll, Hell Hound or Artillery Dog? Great!

[Kardas]

there seem to be a problem with the immunity talismans. my green bat took burn effects which were reflected from my own pyrosoldier (troll/prisoner/mummy/ssd opponent, Hi nicko :D ) while immunity were on. the burns removed my casted immunity and i lost the match. would be nice if you could look into this, i will test it further.
[...]
EDIT: i remember right now, that greenbat took a 2nd burn effect during the fight before the shields were removed (prolly tranfered from the prisoner?). so it might be a problem with immunity vs burns in general, not a talisman problem!

Slauki, which Pyro Soldier are you using? The Flame effects of the Warrior and Sentinel have a chance to remove buffs, so it might be that. Of course it's still strange that you get the effect transferred despite having Immunity up.

[GreyMouser]

For the love of everything holy PLEASE fix the loading issue!!!!! I've STILL yet to see the arena! Now it seems there are arena-only rewards... Awesome. I'm level 87 and feel really shafted. Sorry.

[fred10141988]

Does the shell talisman work on the passive (block) of Angel of Strife (sentiel)???

Will it reduces damage when Angel of Strife is blocking???

[Sag7272]

So 16 (!!!!!) talismans are necessary to achieve the same effect as a Prisoner and a HH/AD!? Quite frankly, those talismans are worthless...
Sorry for the rant but I'm very disappointed by this update....

Seriously, you talk about taking some random toons, empower em like if they were a native 5*
or 4* with two tallismans, that would be grossely OP, I believe it's a substitute no more, loosing some bonuses for something that valuable isn't all that much..We talk about immunity & damage reduction which are rare to begin with trough the game itself..

Btw, if you throw immunity on a mummy, he cleanses AOE you just need 2 tallismans..


So, now Prisoner teams can start with Immunity and/or Shields without having to use Troll, Hell Hound or Artillery Dog? Great!

At a heafy price as for bonuses, you loose somewhere no matter on who you use them & since AI is garbage on defense they probably don't worth that much...
I rather take my Troll with me than those fancy gimmicks... I believe it will level the field & help if you miss some toons mostly on offense or to protect a glass canon but not empower like crazy anyone.. This finally can conter a prisoner used wisely & believe it was the intended goal..

[slauki]

Slauki, which Pyro Soldier are you using? The Flame effects of the Warrior and Sentinel have a chance to remove buffs, so it might be that. Of course it's still strange that you get the effect transferred despite having Immunity up.

hey kardas, good to see you again, hope you are doing well :-) i used the red pyro soldier. and yeah you are totally right, it's not the problem, that the burns remove beneficials, because thats what they can do, but i shouldn't get them while immunity is one.

btw it seems that burns remove beneficials more than the supposed 35% of the time...


edit: the loading improvement is very nice, if we only could use more than one trooper at once it would be perfect. (or some speed passes per day would also do the job :-) )

edit 2: fully agree with sag one again. the talismans are very good way for some toons but it would be insane to get them on every toon you use, since you really have to sacrifice health and damage output. but they give us at least something to counter specific teams....


Does the shell talisman work on the passive (block) of Angel of Strife (sentiel)???

Will it reduces damage when Angel of Strife is blocking???

since the description says that it takes the damage from the allies, it should take exactly the damage that you would do the the other toon. so if you don't attack aos directly it shouldn't reduce the damage at all.

[slauki]

the burning issue on an immune bat happend again. this time no troll was involved. team was SSD/blue soldier/prisoner/mummy.

only explanation i have is that chuck norris can transfer a burn to an immune character. maybe the same issue that lets him seal immune creatures?
he seems to be stronger than immunity. as far as this is the case he is still broken as hell.

so far i won't use burns again when he is involved, but this sucks.

one other sidenote:
we need some attack limits otherwise it's still possible to cheat at PVP. i wrote a more concrete thread in case you have overlooked it.

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4938-How-to-exploit-PVP-vol-II&highlight=exploit

[ovy]

only explanation i have is that chuck norris can transfer a burn to an immune character. maybe the same issue that lets him seal immune creatures?
Yes, this is what's happening. And no, he cannot seal immune characters but what he does do is seal himself as part of the power move, then next round transfer the seal to someone with the basic move. This is slightly but not necessarily broken, because Seal is un-cleansable which should also mean non-transferrable, like Doom or Perfect Corruption, but one could argue either way.



he seems to be stronger than immunity. as far as this is the case he is still broken as hell.

Other than the above I am okay with Transfer Negative Effects not being affected by immunity. It's part of the deal and applies to other characters like SoL Eddie. Much like Steal Beneficial Effects is not affected by immunity, they are both escape hatches of sorts to avoid perfect tanking.

What's broken is that he has the transfer effect in the first place, in addition to the 2 turn stun. It's too much for a single character. Oh well.

[Sparton_LOTB]

How to get the Navigator Eddie from other souls than the new Nautical Souls?

Is it possible to get him from normal souls or only Gunner Souls?

Since he is a gunner, he will not appear in the normal Rare Souls ("Rare Souls" only have Warriors, Sentinels, and Magus).

As a 4 star, he'll not be in the Common Gun/Assassin Souls, but he will be in Rare Gun/Assassin Souls. He's also in Legendary Souls and the Nautical Soul.


For the love of everything holy PLEASE fix the loading issue!!!!! I've STILL yet to see the arena! Now it seems there are arena-only rewards... Awesome. I'm level 87 and feel really shafted. Sorry.

We are still investigating the cause of this for some players.


Does the shell talisman work on the passive (block) of Angel of Strife (sentiel)???

Will it reduces damage when Angel of Strife is blocking???

As slauki noted, for all blockers, damage is calculated based on the original target, not the blocker, so Damage Reduction Shields wouldn't help as much if they're on the Angel of Strife. It'll help the Angel of Strife live a bit longer through AoE attacks to block more damage for it's team, though.


the burning issue on an immune bat happend again. this time no troll was involved. team was SSD/blue soldier/prisoner/mummy.

only explanation i have is that chuck norris can transfer a burn to an immune character. maybe the same issue that lets him seal immune creatures?
he seems to be stronger than immunity. as far as this is the case he is still broken as hell.

Yeah, as ovy pointed out, transfer will transfer negative effects even if the target is vanished/immune. It's not intended functionality, but it's the reality right now, so be aware when facing enemies that can transfer negative effects.


one other sidenote:
we need some attack limits otherwise it's still possible to cheat at PVP. i wrote a more concrete thread in case you have overlooked it.

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4938-How-to-exploit-PVP-vol-II&highlight=exploit

In theory this is possible, but current matchmaking logic plus upcoming changes make this vanishingly unlikely to occur. Nonetheless, we will continue to monitor and randomly sample players to investigate to ensure the integrity of the PVP competition.

[slauki]

Yes, this is what's happening. And no, he cannot seal immune characters but what he does do is seal himself as part of the power move, then next round transfer the seal to someone with the basic move. This is slightly but not necessarily broken, because Seal is un-cleansable which should also mean non-transferrable, like Doom or Perfect Corruption, but one could argue either way.

man really smart observation, probably that's the explanation for the seals, thank you will check this, so we would have to prevent him from making his skillmove to get rid of the seal transfer...hmm, have something to think about now :D but transferrnig seal is one thing, but immunity should prevent burns at least.

but yeah, we could argue back and forth about this, but the immunity talismans are really hurt by this a lot. regarding what you have to sacrifice for them, it's a too hard pill to swallow imo. so there should be some sort of compromise. because we have only half a counter now (at it'S best), and this is very bad, since every toon needs his nemesis.


Edit: @ Sparton thanks for the replys, good to see that you do your best to make the game better. can't wait for further fixes and changes (and sacrifice of course :D)

[treeb0mbb]

Hey does anyone know when the date when nautical souls will stop selling? I was just wondering if I should grind for some more ironite or just buy some and test my luck.

[Frost]

Yeah, as ovy pointed out, transfer will transfer negative effects even if the target is vanished/immune. It's not intended functionality, but it's the reality right now, so be aware when facing enemies that can transfer negative effects.

So basically you say "Suck it up sucker!" and let this bug make F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris even more op now that he has immunity w/o needing HH?!?!?!

This is a top priority issue. This and the 100% removal on Pyro Soldier basic.

What's the point of having a immunity talisman that can be negated?!?!? And adding injury to insult, ONE FUCKING TALISMAN FOR 400 COINS WHILE A SKILL SHARD IS 350?!?!?!?!

WTF BLIZZARD?!??!?!

ARE YOU DE BINQUEICHON WITH ME?!?!?!?!?

[treeb0mbb]

So basically you say "Suck it up sucker!" and let this bug make F'n'Chuck'Prisoner'Norris even more op now that he has immunity w/o needing HH?!?!?!

This is a top priority issue. This and the 100% removal on Pyro Soldier basic.

What's the point of having a immunity talisman that can be negated?!?!? And adding injury to insult, ONE FUCKING TALISMAN FOR 400 COINS WHILE A SKILL SHARD IS 350?!?!?!?!

WTF BLIZZARD?!??!?!

ARE YOU DE BINQUEICHON WITH ME?!?!?!?!?

At least Blizzard made a smart move with releasing free chars with Overwatch....

[Silentknight]

Hey does anyone know when the date when nautical souls will stop selling? I was just wondering if I should grind for some more ironite or just buy some and test my luck.

March 25th 5pm PST,u really wanna try it??? Lol!

[treeb0mbb]

March 25th 5pm PST,u really wanna try it??? Lol!

Yea idk man I already wasted 10 and nothing great just a gunner corrupt rescuer... don't know if it's worth it or just save up. That new eddie though :eek:

[Silentknight]

Yea idk man I already wasted 10 and nothing great just a gunner corrupt rescuer... don't know if it's worth it or just save up. That new eddie though :eek:

Decisions,decisions... GCR is a decent pull!

[Caretaker]

New data? Had to restart the app on notification but no download bar.
Just as I finished the fight, thought it will kill my 30 win streak, but ok, didn't.

Edit, 10 turn draw + new feature did, after 33 wins. Blah. Damn viking got from little to full health, said wtf :)

[Sparton_LOTB]

New data? Had to restart the app on notification but no download bar.

Minor text fix for Nautical Souls in the store (text was cut off in some cases for English/other languages).

[Chaosego888]

The Nautical Souls have an increased chance to get the Navigator Eddie relative to other souls.
OK Thanks... Will this remain true if I save these souls until the Sacrifice update?

[Sparton_LOTB]

OK Thanks... Will this remain true if I save these souls until the Sacrifice update?

Yup, they will.

[Caretaker]

Thanks for the explanation, that was close to a heartsroke, man :)

[Frost]

gunner corrupt rescuer...

One of the best toons in the game. fully maxed mine and don't regret!!

[Liebhild]

Did you accidentally change the effect probability with the latest update?

[CanyptianFit]

Just have to say, while I still am getting some errors in arena and campaign mode, the game is much smoother and the initial load time is a fraction of what it was before.

Seems like a solid step forward.

Also thanks for the limited time arena rewards/event. Nice to incent people to play and provide them some easy rewards. Some people play that many games anyways, so will be a reward for those that do.

I generally play on iPad.

Again, thanks Sparton/Kaz for the communications with us. Very much appreciated.

[Ancient Mariner]

Has anyone already reported the arena bug which doesn't take count of the"endure" ability?

When i'm attacking against a team which has endure active and i send all the enemies to 0 hp, the big golden Eddie's face shows in the background as if i already won the battle, in spite the fight is still going on lol.
This problem is underlined also by the fact that the angel of fear's passive, which gives all your troopers an extra turn when you get the first kill, triggers when you set any of your enemies' hp to 0, even though it's still alive thanks to the endure.

This bug is a problem because it can change the outcome of some battles and should be fixed as soon as possible

p.s: talking about endure, not sure if it's on purpose or another bug, but while your troopers have the endure buff, even though their hp shouldn't go below 0, they can be killed anyways when they receive some enemy's shield damage, returning part of the dealt damage.

[Caretaker]

Yes, I've reported that long ago in AoF's suspect thread, but noone cared.

[Patrice-1201]

PVP is like accelerated capitalism, why I am about to give up.

Dear Troopers and Dev team,

I have been looking at the PVP stats and results over the last 3 weeks as well as the rewards and I think that there is something fundamentally flawed.

The 3 keys to succeeding in PVP are:

1. Time and money. Looking at the total number of points of each of the top players and knowing how many points are lost due to the large number of attack we all receive. It takes a serious investment in both time and money to access the top spots.
2. Luck. Of course most of the game is decided on who goes first and this is decided by RNG. Not much to do here except spend more time and money.
3. Team and skills. Luck has got something to do here as well based on characters awarded by RNG and time and money also have a lot to do with endless grinding for skill shards, shards, runes and talismans.

My main concern has to do with the reward system which basically gives a lot to those who have 1, 2 and 3 above and therefore give them more 1 and 2 for the coming weeks. In other words their characters will get stronger from skill shards, they will get access to chances of obtaining stronger characters and increase their defense win rates while all others (below rank 25) get almost nothing.

Rewarding by tier or division is good. It tying it to finishing position makes it impossible for anyone without a lot of 1,2 and 3 above to contest. Has the rich keep fighting for top positions with their resources, the others fall even lower in terms of chances to hold against those richest who are getting richest.

As the logical and inevitable gap widens each week, the end result can only be that only 25 players will end up finding enough interest to keep battling in PVP in the long run. One of them might even become POTUS one day ;-).

I am personally upper middle class when it comes to LOTB and have invested a huge amount of 1, 2 and 3 but enough... I have a wife, 3 kids, a job, friends... I finish between rank 26 and 70 every week but last week should have been my last. The PVP contest makes me want to play another 300 games this week and I will but after that, I am not sure I can...

And by the way, I am religiously playing each and every of my Troopers every single day...

How do we solve this? I don't know. Reward week on week progression, limit the number of attacks per week, reward on points obtained but cover 200 players instead of 25 each week... so much had to be done. I would love your contribution.

I am also pretty sure that this is clearly the type of philosophy that our favorite band is fighting with a passion since over 30 years...

Thanks for reading and Up the Irons!!!

Patrice-1201

[Caretaker]

Well said. People will argue here not the money that counts, which is partially true, but the advanced capitalism is at hand.. to me if it's about 'who wants to be an eternal', top ranks should work their ass for it, get most attacks so it's not all about luck with souls and op toons and 'rich become richer'. That's kinda part of why I suggested attack lists as I did. If you want to be on top, get the best rewards ok, grind and suffer, not the other way arround.

[Nicko]

How do we solve this? I don't know. Reward week on week progression, limit the number of attacks per week, reward on points obtained but cover 200 players instead of 25 each week... so much had to be done. I would love your contribution.


Patrice-1201

This is the issue right here. What's the solution? We KNOW attack lists are broken. We know they don't change enough (look how many times you and I attacked each other the last few days Patrice - just cause the names kept appearing!). Point being some of us have to play a lot more than others for the same rewards.

Ultimately those who play the most need a reward to continue. ShaolinLondo does not by any means have the best stats in the game. But he very honesty said he places well by playing a lot - which means buying Ironite - which keeps the game in business. I think the developers HAVE to reward that to survive, otherwise what is the incentive to spend?

But how to engage the free to play(or minimal pay to play) players at the same time? That's a great question. I'm sure the developers are cognizant of this, but posting solutions - even if they're not used - may get their gears rolling. But I agree that there need to be more rewards for them or they will fade - and those free to play players are important - they leave reviews - they bring friends in who MAY be pay to play - they keep this online community engaged - so they can't be ignored.

Thanks for posting that.

[Sparton_LOTB]

When i'm attacking against a team which has endure active and i send all the enemies to 0 hp, the big golden Eddie's face shows in the background as if i already won the battle, in spite the fight is still going on lol.
This problem is underlined also by the fact that the angel of fear's passive, which gives all your troopers an extra turn when you get the first kill, triggers when you set any of your enemies' hp to 0, even though it's still alive thanks to the endure.

The golden skull thing is known, but that is at least entirely cosmetic. The Angel of Fear thing is also known, but is slightly more problematic to say the least. They may share the same underlying problem of calculating when a character is dead, but we won't know until we find out what the exact bug is in the code.


p.s: talking about endure, not sure if it's on purpose or another bug, but while your troopers have the endure buff, even though their hp shouldn't go below 0, they can be killed anyways when they receive some enemy's shield damage, returning part of the dealt damage.

It depends on the shield. If the reflect damage is from a Void Shield, that damage has a chance of removing beneficial effects, which means the reflected damage would be lethal to a 1 HP character.


I have been looking at the PVP stats and results over the last 3 weeks as well as the rewards and I think that there is something fundamentally flawed.

[Analysis regarding PVP]

While the general gist of your thoughts on PVP is pretty spot on for those who want to compete at the top, I don't think it paints a fair picture of the value it brings for everyone. For example, if you only care about the prizes in the top 25,t hen sure, there's a lot of demands to be the top of the pile... but that's discounting all of the rewards you can get from earning Iron Coins, which doesn't require nearly as much investment (although still some skill and time each week). Skill shards and legendary souls can be earned this way, and this week we added the ability to earn potent talismans for a limited time, and in the future we will have the ability to get certain characters unique to participating in PVP... there's lots for people to be able to earn with combat that evolves and plays differently from the other features in the game, and we are planning on adding more, too.

That said, this feature definitely has been designed with rewarding highly-engaged play in mind. However, this is just one addition in a long roadmap of features we want to introduce. We've definitely taken the praises and criticisms in mind from all of you as our community, but ultimately we want to refine PVP with that in mind and look to have future features that help scratch competitive (and cooperative) itches with differing level of engagements.

I guess the tl;dr is we respect the criticisms you have, but we want features to excel at rewarding certain kinds of players while still having something for other kinds, and future features will spread the love around.

[slauki]

hi sparton,

one observation: when viking eddie steals the shield from the corrupt gunner rescuer, she sometimes replaces it instantly.
i couldn't reproduce this so far, but it happens about 10-15% of the time. would be nice if you could send this to investigation.

[Patrice-1201]

Thanks for the response Sparton.

I did not really mean it as a negative critic, just something to think about. It is totally normal to reward regular players and to be honest I am one of them and have spent all my free time and extra hours on the game.

The iron coins and this week's contest are very good but not enough to encourage people to compete and reward them on a merit basis.

I think it will be good somehow to reward progress with skill shards or legendary souls. Or reward by tiers and only have a special extra prize for the week's winner but all others say on 2500 points get the rewards for 2500 points.

Hope this makes sense and thanks for a great game and a great community. We all know you guys are working very hard and this is why we are all here.

[Sparton_LOTB]

one observation: when viking eddie steals the shield from the corrupt gunner rescuer, she sometimes replaces it instantly.
i couldn't reproduce this so far, but it happens about 10-15% of the time. would be nice if you could send this to investigation.

Yeah, I know we have that one in our internal bug tracking software, but I'm not sure if we have a fix for that yet (I don't have access to the tracker at home). If you find a consistent condition that makes it occur, do let me know, as that would help us confirm if we have a fix.


I did not really mean it as a negative critic, just something to think about. It is totally normal to reward regular players and to be honest I am one of them and have spent all my free time and extra hours on the game.

No worries; no offence taken.


The iron coins and this week's contest are very good but not enough to encourage people to compete and reward them on a merit basis.

I think it will be good somehow to reward progress with skill shards or legendary souls. Or reward by tiers and only have a special extra prize for the week's winner but all others say on 2500 points get the rewards for 2500 points.

Well, we do want to reward the absolute top player (as we currently do), but one of the biggest complaints we had during the beta is a lot of people felt like there was no reason to compete overly hard for anything but the top prize once you got ranked highly, which is why we increased the relative quantities of skill shards and ironite at higher divisions so there was a reason for more people to compete at the top. I feel like only giving an extra special prize for the week's winner but then substantial rewards for everyone else past a certain point threshold would again just discourage people from competing for anything other than number 1, when we would much rather encourage exciting competition across more than 2 or 3 people.

[The Educated fool]

Very cool idea to promote the Arena, and it explains the number of attacks this morning too! lol

Just one question for you, Sparton: should we be seeing our number of battles displayed in any limited time window (as in the Victory/Defeat pop-up screen, for instance), or just in our "My Arena Stats" tab as usual? I have the message about the promotion in my news screens, but I don't see any additional/special calculations towards a reward going on, so I imagine the awards achieved will simply be awarded along with the usual awards next Saturday?

Just gonna quote myself from the Bonus Battle Event thread here, hoping you see it, as I remain curious. :cool:

[Caretaker]

The bug is that endure is written as revive with hp 1, no revive animation. Solution is to add 2 lines of code into aof's passive, something like 'if target has endure on, do not proc'. Same with skull/sword.

Has something been done to Viking's 'loot'? Has it allways removed a benef on all creatures? I feel it has been just on targeted, or am I wrong and it has allways been remove on all?

And has something been done to energy talis? Don't seem to generate as much as they did, or am I in a wierd streak

[gmac]

Hi Sparton (and LOTB community)

Some considerations I have on PVP future.

1 - We want to watch the combats!
Give people some way to watch the Saturday madness, replay of the fights etc.

2 - Make it easier for newer players.
They have a hard time catching up and there is the snowball effect mentioned by Patrice and Slauki. (promotion this week is totally awesome and on the right direction on this issue by the way).

3 - Competitive Arena, no pay to win.
Spending money to play should not get into the equation for determining Arena weekly results. I know you need to monetize the game, but perhaps that makes the game too exclusive and leave people out.

Thanks again for interacting with us.
Gmac

[Caretaker]

As much as I like your ideas gmac...
1st won't go. People don't want to share stats, making them share fights? You could watch yours perhaps.
2nd more than anything!
3rd, I'm with NF here. Should be pay to win above all. Not all lucky pulls from the book and then rest on it. But making it reachable for all, so allmost all can feel they can catch it, so money drops constantly trough time. Matchmaking took a lot of hard work and it's hard to drop for devs because of it, but should change. You can have lots of people paying hard now, but in a long run just a few, for others giving up not rewarded, watch same people picking up rewards and feel waste of time and money, or you can have constant lower but steady income from different sources. Being heavily attacked for beeing on top is not the bad thing :cool:
Some other interesting stats and ranking by those stats that doesn't bring much if any rewards, or even don't have anything to do with arena, but the satisfaction of ranking itself should be added. (In OGame we had points overall/fleet/economy stats)

[Tritium]

Huh. Did daylight savings time push the daily refresh back to 5pm PST? Darn, the 4pm time worked quite well for me. That extra hour wait is going to suck.

[RCarter]

Huh. Did daylight savings time push the daily refresh back to 5pm PST? Darn, the 4pm time worked quite well for me. That extra hour wait is going to suck.

Lol

Yeah man, I am totally with you on this. My schedule naturally opened up right about refresh, and my grinding chores wrapped up at the right time too.

Oh well...

[Hypnos]

Huh. Did daylight savings time push the daily refresh back to 5pm PST? Darn, the 4pm time worked quite well for me. That extra hour wait is going to suck.

Right? I'm in GMT zone so reset is midnight here. Gotta stay up till 1am for the reset any more. Gonna be tricky to hold my ground during the final minutes in the arena any more

[Sparton_LOTB]

Just gonna quote myself from the Bonus Battle Event thread here, hoping you see it, as I remain curious. :cool:

The total attacks you've done can be observed in the "My Arena Stats" popup (from the PVP screen, tap the bottom bar to show for those who don't know what I'm talking about). We're counting your total attacks, so the second number when looking at your current week's attack win rate.

For example, if under "CURRENT" and beside "Attack Wins" you see "87% (20/23)", you've done 23 battles in the current week.


1 - We want to watch the combats!
Give people some way to watch the Saturday madness, replay of the fights etc.

Some way to see replays (such as for your defenses or for top players) is definitely something we're interested in doing at some point, but I don't know when that will be added.


2 - Make it easier for newer players.
They have a hard time catching up and there is the snowball effect mentioned by Patrice and Slauki. (promotion this week is totally awesome and on the right direction on this issue by the way).

As new features are added and tuning is done, this naturally happens for newer players (remember how hard it used to be to evolve talismans?), but we are always looking for new event and feature ideas to help newer players get up to speed. There will always be an edge from a large, equipped roster, though, and that takes time, luck, and dedication. Definitely on our mind, though.


3 - Competitive Arena, no pay to win.
Spending money to play should not get into the equation for determining Arena weekly results. I know you need to monetize the game, but perhaps that makes the game too exclusive and leave people out.

As you and others have noted in your own exploits to climb the ranks, spending money to climb the ranks is not as direct a correlation as many people would like to believe. That said, we are interested in trying out different formats for competition in the future, so long as we find we can strike a good balance between accessible and rewarding.


Thanks again for interacting with us.

No worries :D


Huh. Did daylight savings time push the daily refresh back to 5pm PST? Darn, the 4pm time worked quite well for me. That extra hour wait is going to suck.

Yeah, technically speaking we have much of our game resetting at midnight UTC to ensure daylight savings doesn't cause weirdness for communication or functionality, so that means when daylight savings starts or ends, things "shift" slightly for the various places that respect it.


Will you guys eventually update the rewards for daily login and secret locations? Like maybe add some skill shards or something worth while to the mix.

We are looking internally at what changes we can do to revise or improve both of those things in a way that works well for new users but has more for long term players to look forward to, but we don't have any timelines right now.

Skill shards are a (very rare) reward from secret locations already, by the way, with a higher chance the longer a location takes to unlock.

[The Educated fool]

The total attacks you've done can be observed in the "My Arena Stats" popup (from the PVP screen, tap the bottom bar to show for those who don't know what I'm talking about). We're counting your total attacks, so the second number when looking at your current week's attack win rate.

For example, if under "CURRENT" and beside "Attack Wins" you see "87% (20/23)", you've done 23 battles in the current week.

Thanks Sparton, for the reply. I was definitely aware of this much though. :cool:

Given your answer, I'm going to assume that there is indeed no limited time display for this event, and that everything's a-ok being calculated in the same way as it previously has, in spite of it now leading also to new rewards. Cheers, and forever up the Irons!

[Patrice-1201]

Thanks for all the clear answers Sparton, one thought would be to limit the number of time a player can get attacked based on the number of time he is attacking.

[Dave-9385]

The total attacks you've done can be observed in the "My Arena Stats" popup (from the PVP screen, tap the bottom bar to show for those who don't know what I'm talking about). We're counting your total attacks, so the second number when looking at your current week's attack win rate.

For example, if under "CURRENT" and beside "Attack Wins" you see "87% (20/23)", you've done 23 battles in the current week.

Doesn't this contradict the news feed?

I've got the spiel in front of me and it says "Every battle gives a point, rare rewards are based on total battles played."

Shouldn't the stats from defense battles be included too? i.e. ATTACK WINS 87% (20/23) DEFENSE WINS 12% (3/25) Total battles 48 (23+25)

[RCarter]

Shouldn't the stats from defense battles be included too? i.e. ATTACK WINS 87% (20/23) DEFENSE WINS 12% (3/25) Total battles 48 (23+25)

Lol

If that is the case, I'm good to go...

Hell, prolly get the 300 some time Thursday...

[Hypnos]

Lol

If that is the case, I'm good to go...

Hell, prolly get the 300 some time Thursday...

Ha, get rewarded for people attacking you? That sounds much easier than what I thought! ;)

[Dave-9385]

Ha, get rewarded for people attacking you? That sounds much easier than what I thought! ;)

That's how it reads to me. It'd certainly make my life easier if it were the case. :D

[Liebhild]

And has something been done to energy talis? Don't seem to generate as much as they did, or am I in a wierd streak

Something is wrong since that miniupdate, but sparton ignored my post...

[Hypnos]

The news button doesn't work.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Shouldn't the stats from defense battles be included too? i.e. ATTACK WINS 87% (20/23) DEFENSE WINS 12% (3/25) Total battles 48 (23+25)

Only battles you initiate count, so defense battles aren't counted for the sake of rewards in this event.

[Sparton_LOTB]

The news button doesn't work.

Just tried it and it worked fine for me.

It sometimes takes a few seconds and doesn't really have feedback that it's delayed, so maybe that's all you saw? Or there was just a blip where it went down for a bit.

[treeb0mbb]

Only battles you initiate count, so defense battles aren't counted for the sake of rewards in this event.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Hypnos]

Just tried it and it worked fine for me.

It sometimes takes a few seconds and doesn't really have feedback that it's delayed, so maybe that's all you saw? Or there was just a blip where it went down for a bit.

ok it works, but it is very finicky. Was tapping it for a solid ten or so seconds until it finally popped up.

[Hypnos]

Also, would you please consider making the scroll through characters, talismans and the likes more sensitive? Right now I have to swipe with both thumbs for what seems like ages to get to the end of my characters list.

[Silentknight]

Also, would you please consider making the scroll through characters, talismans and the likes more sensitive? Right now I have to swipe with both thumbs for what seems like ages to get to the end of my characters list.

And get rid of that annoying sound effect!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Also, would you please consider making the scroll through characters, talismans and the likes more sensitive? Right now I have to swipe with both thumbs for what seems like ages to get to the end of my characters list.


And get rid of that annoying sound effect!

I'll look into these.

[Silentknight]

I'll look into these.

LOL,thx!!!

[Tritium]

Are there any counters for taunt? Seems like every match i play there is either a mummy or ssd in place. And will the drop rate for getting new toons ever get better? Seems like I can never pull anything good for pvp.

Immunity from a Hellhound or Artillery Dog will protect you for the first round. Other than that, you'll have to either use cleanser characters or immunity talis. Some common cleansers are sentinel Allied Soldier, Mummy Eddie (future power ability), and sentinel Undead Rescuer. You can also use toons who grant immunity with their power move like the warrior Pyro Soldier or the sentinel Corrupt Droid. Kardas has made a great guide for cleansing characters under the "Guides" section of the forums.

[Fudjo]

Are there any counters for taunt? Seems like every match i play there is either a mummy or ssd in place.

Best options are toons with passive team Immunity (Hellhound, Purple Rocket Dog) or passive team Cleanse (Pharaoh Dog King). That's really about it, and I agree that it's really frustrating.


And will the drop rate for getting new toons ever get better? Seems like I can never pull anything good for pvp.

Better variety out of Nautical Souls, but otherwise there's no indication that the value of souls will improve.

[Fudjo]

Immunity from a Hellhound or Artillery Dog will protect you for the first round. Other than that, you'll have to either use cleanser characters or immunity talis. Some common cleansers are sentinel Allied Soldier, Mummy Eddie (future power ability), and sentinel Undead Rescuer. You can also use toons who grant immunity with their power move like the warrior Pyro Soldier or the sentinel Corrupt Droid. Kardas has made a great guide for cleansing characters under the "Guides" section of the forums.

The problem with the Immunity or Cleanse actions is that you have to act. If you're up against a Mummy Eddie and and SSD and you lose the coin flip, you can reasonably expect to have 3 of your characters Taunted and then unable to take an Immunity or Cleanse action.

[Liebhild]

The problem with the Immunity or Cleanse actions is that you have to act. If you're up against a Mummy Eddie and and SSD and you lose the coin flip, you can reasonably expect to have 3 of your characters Taunted and then unable to take an Immunity or Cleanse action.

It is wanted that way, so you invest more in ironite. Almost everyone here writes, that that Mummy-SSD-Stun-Taun-Fest sucks. The new Talismans don''t help the players here, because against good defense teams they are useless. The sad part is, that they help the good defense teams.

[Patrice-1201]

Only battles you initiate count, so defense battles aren't counted for the sake of rewards in this event.

Hey Sparton, just to confirm will initiated revenges count towards the rewards?

[Ian]

I think revenges must count, because they add to your number of 'attacks made' - right?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton, just to confirm will initiated revenges count towards the rewards?

They do. As Ian noted, they count towards attacks, and that's the metric you're being measured by.

So as per your post in the other thread, you're free to coast for the rest of the week... unless you're aiming for the higher divisions!

[Patrice-1201]

They do. As Ian noted, they count towards attacks, and that's the metric you're being measured by.

So as per your post in the other thread, you're free to coast for the rest of the week... unless you're aiming for the higher divisions!

;-) always aiming higher, I'm actually fighting to complete my Eddies collection with Vampire Hunter and Cyborg, do they come as Nautical souls?

[slauki]

can you please consider something to make the game less time consuming? maybe using two troopers at once in pve or using a trooper in pvp?
maybe a ride along box would do the job, where we can put a trooper in, without being able to use him in the fight?
or maybe 20 fastpasses per day, where we can skip the battle and go directly to the reward screens? something like that would be great.

tbh: for me this would be more important than sacrifice...

there are many comments about this in several threads, but i'm not sure if you guys are fully aware of this issue.
to fulfill all obligations you need several hours every day. it would be very important to cut this down. this game is almost a 2nd job right now.
and many players feel this way...since pvp is out it'S getting out of control.

glad you put the sow refill to 60 minutes, otherwise i would be burned out ;-)

[Tritium]

can you please consider something to make the game less time consuming? maybe using two troopers at once in pve or using a trooper in pvp?
maybe a ride along box would do the job, where we can put a trooper in, without being able to use him in the fight?
or maybe 20 fastpasses per day, where we can skip the battle and go directly to the reward screens? something like that would be great.

tbh: for me this would be more important than sacrifice...

there are many comments about this in several threads, but i'm not sure if you guys are fully aware of this issue.
to fulfill all obligations you need several hours every day. it would be very important to cut this down. this game is almost a 2nd job right now.
and many players feel this way...since pvp is out it'S getting out of control.

glad you put the sow refill to 60 minutes, otherwise i would be burned out ;-)

I wholeheartedly agree with slauki. I have a lot of free time with my schedule right now, but even I've been getting burned out on how time-consuming this game is in its current state. We DESPERATELY need some ways to reduce the time commitment for LOTB.

[Sparton_LOTB]

;-) always aiming higher, I'm actually fighting to complete my Eddies collection with Vampire Hunter and Cyborg, do they come as Nautical souls?

The Nautical souls have characters from 3 star to 5 star of all classes, so those guys are (rare) possibilities from the Nautical Soul as well.


can you please consider something to make the game less time consuming? maybe using two troopers at once in pve or using a trooper in pvp?
maybe a ride along box would do the job, where we can put a trooper in, without being able to use him in the fight?
or maybe 20 fastpasses per day, where we can skip the battle and go directly to the reward screens? something like that would be great.


I wholeheartedly agree with slauki. I have a lot of free time with my schedule right now, but even I've been getting burned out on how time-consuming this game is in its current state.

It is something on our minds on the development team, and it's just a matter of slotting the priority of various solutions against features like Sacrifice and other initiatives like improving PVP matchmaking. We don't have anything to announce, but we are taking into account what people are requesting in the threads on the forum and elsewhere.

[gmac]

...but we are taking into account what people are requesting in the threads on the forum and elsewhere.

Hi Sparton,

Are you guys aware of this little "Prisoner issue"?

Just kidding!

Cheers
Gmac

[Nine]

Accidantily used the wrong thread (deleting the post doesn't seem to work there?), sorry for that:

Could you have a look at Navigat Eddie's Scourge ability? The actual percentage seems way below the stated 35% and it certainly does not profit from raising accuracy. Dead Reckoning doesn't seem to be affected by Accuracy either.
By the way: the tool tip for Increased Accuracy seems to wrong. It says 25% while the older Sentinel Bomber Boy's Fortune discription says 35%.

It would also be highly appreciated if you could adjust the AI of the Navigator. Most notably is that he uses Charted Course a lot right now. And a lot means twice in a row most of the time, even when at full health. That is basically wasting a turn. Crashing Rock and Scourge are never used and Roaring Wave is used at the worst opportunities. If Scourge and Crashing Rock can't be worked in it might be more convenient if he stuck to Landfall, uses Dead Reckoning when there is available power and heals himself when necessary.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Could you have a look at Navigat Eddie's Scourge ability? The actual percentage seems way below the stated 35% and it certainly does not profit from raising accuracy.

The targeting logic on some of Navigator Eddie's skills are a bit deceptive:


For Scourge, each of the 3 listed things can happen at the same time, not a 35% chance of one thing happening. If they do happen, the enemy is randomly chosen (so 3 things with a 35% chance; could all be on the same guy, could be 1 on one guy 1 on another and the last doesn't happen, etc)
For Dead Reckoning, there's 6 hits total, and for each hit, one randomly chosen enemy has a 20% chance of it's beneficial effects being removed (so 6 attempts at 20% chance)


Due to the fact that these skills have randomly picked enemies for the secondary effects, but those effects have a chance of occurring multiple times, the effects are not as reliable when facing many targets but are substantially more likely to trigger per character when there's less characters being fought. For example, if facing 1 enemy, Dead Reckoning would have a 73.79% chance of removing that character's beneficial effects (or 97.23% chance if Navigator Eddie has Accuracy Up).


By the way: the tool tip for Increased Accuracy seems to wrong. It says 25% while the older Sentinel Bomber Boy's Fortune discription says 35%.

Actually, it looks like the Fortune skill description reminder text is wrong; that skill (like all other instances of applying Accuracy Up) only applies a 25% increase to skill chances, not 35%. We'll correct the skill description in an upcoming update.


It would also be highly appreciated if you could adjust the AI of the Navigator. Most notably is that he uses Charted Course a lot right now. And a lot means twice in a row most of the time, even when at full health. That is basically wasting a turn. Crashing Rock and Scourge are never used and Roaring Wave is used at the worst opportunities. If Scourge and Crashing Rock can't be worked in it might be more convenient if he stuck to Landfall, uses Dead Reckoning when there is available power and heals himself when necessary.

EDIT: I'll have to spend more time to investigate what's going on with his ability to use other skills (including Charted Course... despite what his data is flagged to do, he's doing something funky to say the least).

[Nine]

Hey Sparton, thanks for the detailed reply. I really like the insight into calculations and wish we would have some insight the game.

Dead reckoning works excactly the way I thought. I arrivied at the same numbers, (1-(0,2+0,25)^6)=2.8% of a burn not being applied, yet it happens far more often.

As for Scourge: I thought the chance of nothing happening at all was 17% for four enemies and wondered. Now you are saying it should be 0.6%? That is definitely not the case. :confused:
It should basically impossible that nothing happens with Accuracy, yet I had that case...

[Sparton_LOTB]

Dead reckoning works excactly the way I thought. I arrivied at the same numbers, (1-(0,2+0,25)^6)=2.8% of a burn not being applied, yet it happens far more often.

As for Scourge: I thought the chance of nothing happening at all was 17% for four enemies and wondered. Now you are saying it should be 0.6%? That is definitely not the case. :confused:
It should basically impossible that nothing happens with Accuracy, yet I had that case...

For Scourge, you're looking at 3 trials with a 35% chance of happening (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3+trials+with+a+35%25+chance) each time you use the skill. The chance of all 3 trials (ie all 3 effects) not occurring is a 24.76% chance of happening. I think your math for Dead Reckoning is similarly off; the burn chance is 6 trials with a 20% chance of happening (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=6+trials+with+a+20%25+chance) (before accuracy... but also before accounting for the fact that the same enemy could be chosen twice and get two Grevious Burns, which will both appear).

Depending on how many times you've tried the skill, you'll likely see a bit of variation. I think when I checked Scourge at the end of the day yesterday it was closer to 20% of the time, but I only used the skill 8 times.

[Nine]

I did some testing today, after all it is easier to refuse a hypothesis than making up your own and try to prove it.

Granted, it is only a small amount of runs, but it confirms what I abserved previously. In about 20 runs Game of Death Madness I used Dead Reckoning once every wave, all played manually. So I have 60 observations. I had a Warrior Bomber Boy with Accuracy Passive in my team. Usually I got one or two burns from using the skill with four enemies alive (only used it at the beginning of the round, so there were always four), usually means about 80%. Not once were all four enemies affected by a burn at the same time, although that should happen 90% of the time. Three burns were rare but happened. If you need more prove I start taking notes tomorrow but I'd rather not :p

Out of curiousity I did 3 runs using Scourge every wave. I managed it two times in those 15 waves to not get a single effect on four targets, which is as close as impossible as it gets. Something is defintely off there.


In regards to accuracy: I guess you can not be convinced that 35% is the actual correct value? ;) After all it was the only statement about that buff accessible to players for a long time (and you could argue that besides from the passives the buff is pretty limited in use).


Edit: I somehow missed your post before, sorry. Here's my math:

Regarding Scourge: Before your statement I thought it was a 35% chance of something happening for each enemy. That left 0,65^4=0.17 of nothing happening when four enemies are present. As it turns out I was wrong with that assumption and I really appreciate you sharing the mechanics. So with that inside the chances of nothing happening are actually far far lower, my stated 0.6%. For one enemy: 65% of first debuff, 65% of second debuff, 65% of third debuff not being applied. I agree that is 27.46% (I assume there's a mixup in your number). For four present enemies, however, this is 27,46^4, correct? This is 0.00569, roughly equal to 0.6% (which I stated).

Please correct me if I am off somewhere.

I have to add: I never ever, not even once saw multiple grievous burns being applied on the same enemy and I figured it was intended to be possible.

[slauki]

hey sparton,

i feel that the talisman colour of the immunity talis is not optimal. maybe they should be colourless or maybe even green. because right now they are pretty useless vs. siege, because there are
very few chracters that can stack them. and most of them are not very usefull with two sets of immunity. i think this is a huge problem. siege was always extremly powerfull (i think it's also OP) and the talismans
didn't help us there. so the problem of a missing counter to siege (beside the prisoner) is still not solved, so the tauntfest can go on.

would be happy if you could consider something about this. maybe extend the immunity of the talis to 2 rounds and make them a 3set or something like that?

my argument is always, that every strategy needs a reasonable counterstrategy. right now only real counter to siege is the prisoner...

anyway, i feel that the game drifts in the right dorection atm, and i'm happy that things are moving :-)

EDIT: another problem is the talisman changing for the characters. in theory every opponent needs different setups an your team. it would be great if we could configure some attacking teams and save them, so that we can simply load them when needed...team 1 with setup x or team 2 with setup y and so on. would save us a hell lot of time.

[Sparton_LOTB]

i feel that the talisman colour of the immunity talis is not optimal. maybe they should be colourless or maybe even green. because right now they are pretty useless vs. siege, because there are
very few chracters that can stack them. and most of them are not very usefull with two sets of immunity. i think this is a huge problem. siege was always extremly powerfull (i think it's also OP) and the talismans
didn't help us there. so the problem of a missing counter to siege (beside the prisoner) is still not solved, so the tauntfest can go on.

would be happy if you could consider something about this. maybe extend the immunity of the talis to 2 rounds and make them a 3set or something like that?

We're wanting to wait a bit longer to see how things are when more people are using these talismans on attack and on defense, especially once people start having the chance to have multiple sets of them. It's definitely a tricky subject, but we want to give people more time to come up with creative or surprising setups.


my argument is always, that every strategy needs a reasonable counterstrategy. right now only real counter to siege is the prisoner...

Siege strips a lot of defensive options from you, but neither Angel of Pain nor Death Dog are particularly durable, and Angel of Pain won't do a lot of damage to you unless it burns most of that team's power on it's power skill. They're still very potent characters in the arena, and we are keeping that in mind when considering changes and additions for subsequent updates (including potentially improving Immunity and Shell talismans if necessary).


EDIT: another problem is the talisman changing for the characters. in theory every opponent needs different setups an your team. it would be great if we could configure some attacking teams and save them, so that we can simply load them when needed...team 1 with setup x or team 2 with setup y and so on. would save us a hell lot of time.

In general we don't want to encourage swapping around talismans too much... it's definitely an option to help you experiment, but not something we want you to do a lot of. Nonetheless, this is a subject that comes up periodically within the team. The main problem right now is how a lot of the information is saved doesn't really allow for this right now, but as we add more game modes we'll consider it for sure.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I did some testing today, after all it is easier to refuse a hypothesis than making up your own and try to prove it.

[Stuff about calcs being off]

Yeah, for checks like this, I'd want to do at least a hundred uses, and I'd want to be very sure about recording the exact amounts per wave (to confirm if numbers are correct, or to see if there's patterns that imply what, if any, bug is present); this is the kind of check I'd have the team do for verifying things like the talisman fixes in specific scenarios. Our team doesn't have time to check it more thoroughly right now, but I'll see if they can after the next major bit of testing is done.


In regards to accuracy: I guess you can not be convinced that 35% is the actual correct value? ;) After all it was the only statement about that buff accessible to players for a long time (and you could argue that besides from the passives the buff is pretty limited in use).

I looked right into the data where the value is defined for that skill and other skills; internally it's set to 25% everywhere that applies an Accuracy Up. It's also communicated as 25% in places like the Character Battle Info popup and the Help section in-game, but I guess somewhere along the lines we missed updating that one skill and no one noticed until now.

It used to be 35% when the game went worldwide last year, but I think the value was changed a month or two later as part of one of the first tuning updates that went out (did you know you used to be able to get the Corrupt General to 100% stun rate against all enemies?).


For four present enemies, however, this is 27,46^4, correct? This is 0.00569, roughly equal to 0.6% (which I stated).

It's not a 35% chance for each effect for each enemy. It's a 35% chance for each effect once, and if it will happen, then it happens to a random enemy. Think of it like doing AoE damage, but single target debuffs, just for those single target debuffs, they're not on the enemy you're targeting but a random enemy for each debuff.

The wording of the skill is not super clear, though. I can see if we can update that for a subsequent update.


I have to add: I never ever, not even once saw multiple grievous burns being applied on the same enemy and I figured it was intended to be possible.

It should be possible, but if you're using it when fighting 3 or 4 enemies, it'll be very, very rare. I believe the odds of 2 or more burns happening is only 25% of the time, so the odds that 2 or more happens and that at least 2 happen on the same enemy would be far less than 10% of the time. I can also see if the team can look into this when they have more time.

[gmac]

Hi Sparton,

Just to reinforce Slauki's post.

First, quick selection for teams/toons would be very much appreciated.

Second, and this is big, the issue with the Prisoner really is that it allows teams to attack with immunity first round no matter what. Top players with Prisoners used to be able to go with Hell Hound or Artillery Dog against non prisoner teams, so they would pretty much only lose to other prisoner teams. (I'm guessing ones with "taunt fest" or a full GRE + AoF)

Now prisoner teams don't even need a Hell Hound or Artillery Dog, and they can go with immunity against other prisoner teams too. I mean, top players with prisoners will have a hard time losing.

I recently pulled an artillery dog and after using it I can say I was not fully aware how big of an advantage going with immunity first round really represents, it's HUGE. (I'm using mine without any skill shards and with lv3 talismans just for fun, that's how big that is).

I'm convinced that this is the unbalance that creates the gap (showed in our weekly results thread) between guys with prisoners and guys without him, and the immunity talismans made it worse.

So, I think it's either taunt fest for everybody, or no taut fest for everybody, and I actually think taunt fest is necessary with the current AI.

There is no real counter to the prisoner's passive, perhaps the best thing would be to change it's passive to siege. Lot's of lv 5 toons but, really, nothing matches him, not even close.

This is sad for me to say, but I was wrong, some hard nerfing is indeed needed. :(

(sorry guys with prisoners!)

[mjmxiii]

Hey Sparton, just wondering, in PvP will we ever be able to setup DEF scheme/strategy? Seen this kinda asked before, but didn't see if it got answered... and just to be clear, some kinda "all out attack" or "defensive shell" style options at DEF setup screen just to give it a bit more importance and help the AI to play it a lot more like we would if we could.

[mjmxiii]

Hi Sparton,

Just to reinforce Slauki's post.

First, quick selection for teams/toons would be very much appreciated.

Second, and this is big, the issue with the Prisoner really is that it allows teams to attack with immunity first round no matter what. Top players with Prisoners used to be able to go with Hell Hound or Artillery Dog against non prisoner teams, so they would pretty much only lose to other prisoner teams. (I'm guessing ones with "taunt fest" or a full GRE + AoF)

Now prisoner teams don't even need a Hell Hound or Artillery Dog, and they can go with immunity against other prisoner teams too. I mean, top players with prisoners will have a hard time losing.

I recently pulled an artillery dog and after using it I can say I was not fully aware how big of an advantage going with immunity first round really represents, it's HUGE. (I'm using mine without any skill shards and with lv3 talismans just for fun, that's how big that is).

I'm convinced that this is the unbalance that creates the gap (showed in our weekly results thread) between guys with prisoners and guys without him, and the immunity talismans made it worse.

So, I think it's either taunt fest for everybody, or no taut fest for everybody, and I actually think taunt fest is necessary with the current AI.

There is no real counter to the prisoner's passive, perhaps the best thing would be to change it's passive to siege. Lot's of lv 5 toons but, really, nothing matches him, not even close.

This is sad for me to say, but I was wrong, some hard nerfing is indeed needed. :(

(sorry guys with prisoners!)

agree with you on the dogs mentioned.. artillery has been a game changer for me.

Prisoner should be left alone and the chars that are "bosses" in the game should render passive aggression inactive.
AG, WM, CG could easily be his true nemesis

[slauki]

Siege strips a lot of defensive options from you, but neither Angel of Pain nor Death Dog are particularly durable, and Angel of Pain won't do a lot of damage to you unless it burns most of that team's power on it's power skill. They're still very potent characters in the arena, and we are keeping that in mind when considering changes and additions for subsequent updates (including potentially improving Immunity and Shell talismans if necessary).

thank you for the very detailed explanation, i really appreciate and respect that.

the problem is that siege takes away all possibilities to defend against stuns, freezes , taunts and blinds.everything else isn't that important i think. so basicly you are naked against siege.
so if you go 2nd, chances are very high, that you cannot take control of your team and so you will loose very high % of the time. then we have a luckfest, a tauntfest and
not a strategical game. okay i get that defenses should have something to gain some hold% but it should be something reasonable not something gamebreaking like that.

that said, the blessed ones with the prisoner don't have this problems when attacking, which is an unbelivable huge advantage. i condsider this even
as a unfair advantage, and i hope the numbers of the next weekly pvp threads will proove me right. i hope one guy will come up with
600 fights and 600 wins, and i really belive it's easily doable to win every single fight out there when you have the prisoner...not to mention the huge time and attacking advantage some guys
like jofer have.

anyway, still happy about the direction of the game, and i really belive/hope you guys will iron this out soon. understandable that you need more data, but i'm very sure
the metadata will show these imbalances very clear, if you put on the right filters :)

cheers

[gmac]

agree with you on the dogs mentioned.. artillery has been a game changer for me.

Prisoner should be left alone and the chars that are "bosses" in the game should render passive aggression inactive.
AG, WM, CG could easily be his true nemesis

A buff on other toons like you suggested would also work, point is siege has to work on Prisoner teams somehow. He already can stun for 2 rounds with his basic attack... No counter to his passive is out of order. Maybe that passive is too much for PVP.

[Nine]

Thanks again for clearing things up, Sparton. Really didn't expect to misunderstand Scourge a second time :p The "issue" there is explained then.

I'm curious how many skills there are that people misinterpret - especially when they aren't reading around here. On top of that there are soo many skills where it is just ambigious how chances are calculated precisely. Take Gunner Bomber Boy's Bomb as an example: What does a 45% chance to apply up to two burns mean? 45% chance for "something happens" and that something is 1 burn with X% and 2 burns with Y%? 67% per burn? Just picking something out of the blue, but I guess you are aware of issue. The explanation you guys give for new toons coming out certainly do help a lot preventing misunderstandings.

[Jofer16]

It would also be highly appreciated if you could adjust the AI of the Navigator. Most notably is that he uses Charted Course a lot right now. And a lot means twice in a row most of the time, even when at full health. That is basically wasting a turn. Crashing Rock and Scourge are never used and Roaring Wave is used at the worst opportunities. If Scourge and Crashing Rock can't be worked in it might be more convenient if he stuck to Landfall, uses Dead Reckoning when there is available power and heals himself when necessary.

This is super annoying, I've been playing around with it and it seems isolated to arena. There must be different AI versions? He'll habitually try to heal himself, even in worst case scenario with your team at full health and fury up. But in secret locations, campaign modes he doesn't behave like this and wrecks shop as he's designed. I wonder if it has nothing to do with the heal aspect of the ability, but instead the attack debuff and defense buff. AI decides to buff/debuff and act as support instead of attacking. I bet if the buff/debuff parts of the ability were removed and it was a straight heal he wouldn't try to use it until needed. Other healing focused characters don't even spam heal abilities in this manner. The secondary enhancements of the ability shouldn't be coded to have priority over the main function of the ability (to heal). Or maybe I'm overthinking it :)

[Nine]

This is super annoying, I've been playing around with it and it seems isolated to arena. There must be different AI versions? He'll habitually try to heal himself, even in worst case scenario with your team at full health and fury up. But in secret locations, campaign modes he doesn't behave like this and wrecks shop as he's designed. I wonder if it has nothing to do with the heal aspect of the ability, but instead the attack debuff and defense buff. AI decides to buff/debuff and act as support instead of attacking. I bet if the buff/debuff parts of the ability were removed and it was a straight heal he wouldn't try to use it until needed. Other healing focused characters don't even spam heal abilities in this manner. The secondary enhancements of the ability shouldn't be coded to have priority over the main function of the ability (to heal). Or maybe I'm overthinking it :)

I don't know where you were using him in PvE, but I bring him with a Warrior Troll and Sentinel Soulless Demon to farm GoD and he heals himself/debuffs there all the time, so unfortunately it is not limited to arena. I, too, had the interpretation that it is treated as a debuff. It is still strange, however, that he seems to be the only character who repeatedly buff/debuffs multiple turns in a row. Maybe Sparton can give us some insigths when they found out what's wrong. :)

[Jofer16]

I don't know where you were using him in PvE, but I bring him with a Warrior Troll and Sentinel Soulless Demon to farm GoD and he heals himself/debuffs there all the time, so unfortunately it is not limited to arena. I, too, had the interpretation that it is treated as a debuff. It is still strange, however, that he seems to be the only character who repeatedly buff/debuffs multiple turns in a row. Maybe Sparton can give us some insigths when they found out what's wrong. :)

Oh weird, was doing madness uw game of death and madness bf point of no return. Was paired with warrior troll and AoF. Also secret locations for the day, same team makeup.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Second, and this is big, the issue with the Prisoner really is that it allows teams to attack with immunity first round no matter what. Top players with Prisoners used to be able to go with Hell Hound or Artillery Dog against non prisoner teams, so they would pretty much only lose to other prisoner teams. (I'm guessing ones with "taunt fest" or a full GRE + AoF)

[...]

I'm convinced that this is the unbalance that creates the gap (showed in our weekly results thread) between guys with prisoners and guys without him, and the immunity talismans made it worse.

That's a reasonable hypothesis, yes, and I can assure you we're continuing to monitor the situation. We just don't want to be too hasty with changing things, and we also need to work within the constraints of what the system actually allows (there's some potential solutions that we feel would be most fair which are not completely possible right now without some additional coding).


Hey Sparton, just wondering, in PvP will we ever be able to setup DEF scheme/strategy? Seen this kinda asked before, but didn't see if it got answered... and just to be clear, some kinda "all out attack" or "defensive shell" style options at DEF setup screen just to give it a bit more importance and help the AI to play it a lot more like we would if we could.

Step one for us is getting the AI to be more modular and capable at understanding different strategies in different situations, which has been one of the developer's side project for a bit. Once that's done, I'm hoping we'll be able to extend that further to having some straightforward "aggressiveness" options you can tune for your defense team, but I don't foresee something like that coming in the near future, sadly. Other fish we want to fry first.


the problem is that siege takes away all possibilities to defend against stuns, freezes , taunts and blinds.everything else isn't that important i think. so basicly you are naked against siege.
so if you go 2nd, chances are very high, that you cannot take control of your team and so you will loose very high % of the time. then we have a luckfest, a tauntfest and
not a strategical game. okay i get that defenses should have something to gain some hold% but it should be something reasonable not something gamebreaking like that.

It's not bullet proof, but I've found that taunt teams that rely on taunting to disrupt you can be pretty easily crushed by bringing strong Warrior attackers to pushing the taunts, whereas those who try to maximize CC (by using freezing/stunning as well) usually don't have a Prisoner and/or Siege user, so a team cleanse ends up letting take most or all of your turn and shift momentum in your favour. Even those with a Prisoner won't do anything to a team cleanser. I'm sure there's other strategies that work, too (we've seen plenty of threads pop up with interesting suggestions), and if every team tries to build itself to counter that by having both Prisoner and Angel of Pain/Death Dog... well, that's half their team comp which is not a major offensive presence, and that has it's own weaknesses.

(As an aside, one of the developers in our office was doing some fights against one of the other developers earlier. Developer A was attacking and had no prisoner, developer B had prisoner and has pretty tooled out toons. Developer A was able to beat Developer B's team twice, on auto (and that was 2 wins without losing once, not just trying auto a bunch of times and getting lucky). Both sides are running 5 star characters with 5 star talismans and with mostly or entirely max level skills.)


Thanks again for clearing things up, Sparton. Really didn't expect to misunderstand Scourge a second time :p The "issue" there is explained then.

No worries. Some of our skill descriptions (or effects) definitely can be kind of confusing... in Navigator Eddie's case, it's definitely different from others, but we felt it would be valuable to go that route because of how that's situationally better (or worse) to help make him a better or worse choice for some battles.


I'm curious how many skills there are that people misinterpret - especially when they aren't reading around here. On top of that there are soo many skills where it is just ambigious how chances are calculated precisely. Take Gunner Bomber Boy's Bomb as an example: What does a 45% chance to apply up to two burns mean? 45% chance for "something happens" and that something is 1 burn with X% and 2 burns with Y%? 67% per burn? Just picking something out of the blue, but I guess you are aware of issue. The explanation you guys give for new toons coming out certainly do help a lot preventing misunderstandings.

Yeah, we've not had the best history with skill descriptions, but usually we try to find a middle ground between telling you the useful information you need to compare the value of one character to another while not overloading the player with tons of small details that may make that decision overwhelming for some people.


I don't know where you were using him in PvE, but I bring him with a Warrior Troll and Sentinel Soulless Demon to farm GoD and he heals himself/debuffs there all the time, so unfortunately it is not limited to arena. I, too, had the interpretation that it is treated as a debuff. It is still strange, however, that he seems to be the only character who repeatedly buff/debuffs multiple turns in a row.


Oh weird, was doing madness uw game of death and madness bf point of no return. Was paired with warrior troll and AoF. Also secret locations for the day, same team makeup.

Yeah, Kaz and myself a pretty perplexed as to what he's doing, but he's definitely deciding to use that skill for it's other value or something at times where it's probably not nearly as valuable. Maybe to do with the random deviation chance or something (to make AI not completely predictable), so sometimes he'll psych you out and other times he'll try to do straight damage.

Also, welcome to the forums, Jofer16! Sorry about the forum registration problems you were having.

[Frost]

For 400 points it should be siege-free. We are humans not robots or monkeys to play 24/7 speding tons of ironite to have 6 sets, and even if we were just a very few toons can use them.

[Jofer16]

Yeah, Kaz and myself a pretty perplexed as to what he's doing, but he's definitely deciding to use that skill for it's other value or something at times where it's probably not nearly as valuable. Maybe to do with the random deviation chance or something (to make AI not completely predictable), so sometimes he'll psych you out and other times he'll try to do straight damage.

Also, welcome to the forums, Jofer16! Sorry about the forum registration problems you were having.

Thanks! And feel free to send that trooper request again if you want. I didn't see it until a few hours before expiration, got sidetracked looking for someone to delete and fell asleep haha. Couldn't recall your magic 4 digit code to search.

And I'd argue that skill has no other value when it relates to deciding the characters action outside of the heal. There's never been a time when id increase defense and lower the attack of the enemy over any sort of damage dealing or super useful support ability, those are just add on fillers to make it more than a simple heal. Shouldn't affect the ability prioritization whatsoever for AI in the code.

[R1ck]

The color for immunity talisman is not right, they are supposed to be a support for your team, they should be green. If a warrior has 3 red slots using 2 yellows he is losing a lot of HP, def and mr. So what is the purpose of a immunity when that toon is not surviving first round.
I have seen many people using them in arena but are falling easily.

[Nicko]

For 400 points it should be siege-free. We are humans not robots or monkeys to play 24/7 speding tons of ironite to have 6 sets, and even if we were just a very few toons can use them.

Slauki has told me he now finds Prisoner teams easier then non-Prisoner teams that have a Blue Bat. That makes sense

Weren't these talismans designed to mitigate the effect of the Prisoner when attacking a Prisoner team?

Seems like they've done that.

I have yet to see a Prisoner/Blue bat team for the reasons Sparton has mentioned. Not that it couldn't happen. But that's giving up a lot of firepower or other skills (healing/taunting/shielding etc)

So for those without a Prisoner and facing Siege, it's kind of like it was for us Prisoner players before the Talismans. I'd face a Prisoner team and strategy became more important - as well as a little luck. Bring your own blue bat and create a similar experience. If your Droid or Red Pyro isn't taunted you're golden. If he is - hope he's not next turn ;).

I don't envy the developers in dealing with this. The Prisoner SHOULD make a difference as my friend the Educated Fool says - he's the most desired character in the game - he should be kept special. But how MUCH of a difference is the thing.

I'll post my stats Sunday as usual. I'm not undefeated. But close. And I got to 300 without a loss. But many good teams without Prisoners seem to settle at the 93% win mark. Where should a Prisoner team be? 95%? 99%? Is a 6% difference too much for one character to make?

Don't want to derail the thread - but appreciate how the developers are listening but also being prudent before making sweeping changes.

[R1ck]

Agree about teams with the Prisoner are much easier to beat now, not all of them because join him with GRE who is OP is kind of difficult.
So the Prisoner in defense team are easier but who has one in attack can beat ANY team , taking with him a HH to avoid taunts. That is why attack % is much higher for those with The Prisoner,

[Killhouse]

When can we expect some changes in pvp. It's getting ridiculously out of control. 99% of the people who attack me are people with op toons. Such as the mummy who can taunt my whole team without me getting a single play in. Like seriously what's the point of pvp if I can't control my defense nor my attack team. Might as well have auto playing for me since they already are. And please don't tell me well you can counter them with this. Because if i could i would and, NO I will not be force to buy something just for the sake of pvp. Like come on guys you no just like everyone else that pvp needs some good old tuning done (NERFS). Not just hey guys try out these talisman to see how they work. Forcing people to buy something instead of just nerfing/fixing the character at hand. There is no need for strategy when 100% of the players are just taking advantage of these op toons. Without much strategy at all. You call having a mummy in your defense strategy when majority of the people in pvp have him. Why? Is it because of strategy or his 100% guarantee taunt ability. Real strategy requires thinking. Not just throwing a character in place just because they bring something special to the table that is op. No toon should have the ability to stun/taunt or freeze a whole team. That what you call the easy way out. Not trying to figure out a good team set up. When you could easily throw on freeze/stun/blind talisman and kill there whole team without them touching a single finger. And sorry if I'm complaining. Its just difficult trying to attack someone knowing i will either be frozen/stun and taunted without much I can do.

Do you mind sharing your full in game ID? I would be interested in seeing your characters/talismans to see if I can offer any advice.

Similar to the taunt fest, it used to be the freeze/thief fest in Beta before they fixed talisman proc rates. That period drove me stop PVPing for a few weeks till the fix came. Taunt is more manageable than that was and I hope I could help out.

PM me if you prefer or send a trooper invite if you have room, Killhouse-2721

[konstifik]

When can we expect some changes in pvp. It's getting ridiculously out of control. 99% of the people who attack me are people with op toons. Such as the mummy who can taunt my whole team without me getting a single play in. Like seriously what's the point of pvp if I can't control my defense nor my attack team. Might as well have auto playing for me since they already are. And please don't tell me well you can counter them with this. Because if i could i would and, NO I will not be force to buy something just for the sake of pvp. Like come on guys you no just like everyone else that pvp needs some good old tuning done (NERFS). Not just hey guys try out these talisman to see how they work. Forcing people to buy something instead of just nerfing/fixing the character at hand. There is no need for strategy when 100% of the players are just taking advantage of these op toons. Without much strategy at all. You call having a mummy in your defense strategy when majority of the people in pvp have him. Why? Is it because of strategy or his 100% guarantee taunt ability. Real strategy requires thinking. Not just throwing a character in place just because they bring something special to the table that is op. No toon should have the ability to stun/taunt or freeze a whole team. That what you call the easy way out. Not trying to figure out a good team set up. When you could easily throw on freeze/stun/blind talisman and kill there whole team without them touching a single finger. And sorry if I'm complaining. Its just difficult trying to attack someone knowing i will either be frozen/stun and taunted without much I can do.

You're saying there is no strategy in putting up a taunting team, yet you call for those toons to be nerfed? Perhaps you should spend some time thinking about strategy instead. There are plenty of ways to counter taunters if you think about a little.

[Liebhild]

I think there is a problem with endure and Angel of Fear. Through endure you are still alive but AoF thinks your are dead and there comes the extra turn.

[slauki]

You're saying there is no strategy in putting up a taunting team, yet you call for those toons to be nerfed? Perhaps you should spend some time thinking about strategy instead. There are plenty of ways to counter taunters if you think about a little.

actually he is right. every counter is very luck dependent, so it's only a 30% counter at it's best...

Taunting solutions:
1.put in high damage dealers? great...if they are not blinded stunned or paralyzed. never seen mummy/ssd combos without blind, freeze or blinds talismans. usually some will trigger.
2. put in a cleanser there? great, if you are able to control him next turn. even if you can, the taunted members used their turn already, so your turn is almost over most of the time
3. immunity is great, if the taunters are not paired with the siege toon or a prisoner. if they are immunity is useless.
4. puttins stunners/taunters in your team, could work if not paralysed or frozen. and CG is a blue character who will heavily suffer from the green taunters. a ssd on your own yould work better.
5. accuracy debuff works great, if you can put in the skill like acrid smoke. otherwise only a single debuff from characters like bluebat is possible, which will be relevat in the next round. unfortunatly you are dead then most of the times.
6. put in pdk, blue charcter who has disadvantage vs greens but he will debuff one allie....
7. bring in a prisoner along with immunity...wow actually this is virtually the only thing that can save your ass, every time.

sorry, but i cannot think of one single (non prisoner) strategy where you don't need hell lot of luck to take advantage of it. maybe i missed something, but if you prove me wrong i would be very thankfull.
if you need high % of luck it's not an stratatgy it's hoping for something to happned.

[gmac]

[QUOTE=Nicko;34068... But many good teams without Prisoners seem to settle at the 93% win mark. Where should a Prisoner team be? 95%? 99%? Is a 6% difference too much for one character to make?
[/QUOTE]

Hey Nicko,

Regarding that question, yes it is imo, because he is the only lv 5 toon capable of making this much of a difference. If he should make a difference other lv5 should too. And 99% win rates are too much, do we want that in the game?

Makes no sense that on Offense a top team with Prisoner can go 100% of the times with immunity first round and others without him can't. It's too much of an advantage.

And on defense, come on, once people start using those new talismans Prisoner teams will put AoP/DD in there, so we will have to deal with taunt fest with all AoP/DD teams, plus Prisoners can have Mummy and SSD with immunity too! So AoF/AoS torture won´t be able to stun, w/s Pyro flame will not trigger, no PDK to help, no DM with heavy CC team... this is not right.

Cheers
Gmac

[treeb0mbb]

Hey Nicko,

Regarding that question, yes it is imo, because he is the only lv 5 toon capable of making this much of a difference. If he should make a difference other lv5 should too. And 99% win rates are too much, do we want that in the game?

Makes no sense that on Offense a top team with Prisoner can go 100% of the times with immunity first round and others without him can't. It's too much of an advantage.

And on defense, come on, once people start using those new talismans Prisoner teams will put AoP/DD in there, so we will have to deal with taunt fest with all AoP/DD teams, plus Prisoners can have Mummy and SSD with immunity too! So AoF/AoS torture won´t be able to stun, w/s Pyro flame will not trigger, no PDK to help, no DM with heavy CC team... this is not right.

Cheers
Gmac

I totally agree man it's way too op. They gotta adjust the prisoner soon or it's gonna be the end with these new talismans coming in also.

[gmac]

I totally agree man it's way too op. They gotta adjust the prisoner soon or it's gonna be the end with these new talismans coming in also.

Hey man, you have to clear your inbox! Can't reach you for days! Cheers!

[Rodrigo-3281]

Slauki has told me he now finds Prisoner teams easier then non-Prisoner teams that have a Blue Bat. That makes sense

Weren't these talismans designed to mitigate the effect of the Prisoner when attacking a Prisoner team?

Seems like they've done that.

I have yet to see a Prisoner/Blue bat team for the reasons Sparton has mentioned. Not that it couldn't happen. But that's giving up a lot of firepower or other skills (healing/taunting/shielding etc)

So for those without a Prisoner and facing Siege, it's kind of like it was for us Prisoner players before the Talismans. I'd face a Prisoner team and strategy became more important - as well as a little luck. Bring your own blue bat and create a similar experience. If your Droid or Red Pyro isn't taunted you're golden. If he is - hope he's not next turn ;).

I don't envy the developers in dealing with this. The Prisoner SHOULD make a difference as my friend the Educated Fool says - he's the most desired character in the game - he should be kept special. But how MUCH of a difference is the thing.

I'll post my stats Sunday as usual. I'm not undefeated. But close. And I got to 300 without a loss. But many good teams without Prisoners seem to settle at the 93% win mark. Where should a Prisoner team be? 95%? 99%? Is a 6% difference too much for one character to make?

Don't want to derail the thread - but appreciate how the developers are listening but also being prudent before making sweeping changes.

Totally agree that Blue Bat teams are harder than Prisoner teams. I got rocked 3x by a player with a Blue Bat team after I had a really nice winning streak going. After the 3rd loss I gave up. I have a Blue Bat so I just need to figure out my talisman setup for it to bring him in next time.

[konstifik]

actually he is right. every counter is very luck dependent, so it's only a 30% counter at it's best...

Taunting solutions:
1.put in high damage dealers? great...if they are not blinded stunned or paralyzed. never seen mummy/ssd combos without blind, freeze or blinds talismans. usually some will trigger.
2. put in a cleanser there? great, if you are able to control him next turn. even if you can, the taunted members used their turn already, so your turn is almost over most of the time
3. immunity is great, if the taunters are not paired with the siege toon or a prisoner. if they are immunity is useless.
4. puttins stunners/taunters in your team, could work if not paralysed or frozen. and CG is a blue character who will heavily suffer from the green taunters. a ssd on your own yould work better.
5. accuracy debuff works great, if you can put in the skill like acrid smoke. otherwise only a single debuff from characters like bluebat is possible, which will be relevat in the next round. unfortunatly you are dead then most of the times.
6. put in pdk, blue charcter who has disadvantage vs greens but he will debuff one allie....
7. bring in a prisoner along with immunity...wow actually this is virtually the only thing that can save your ass, every time.

sorry, but i cannot think of one single (non prisoner) strategy where you don't need hell lot of luck to take advantage of it. maybe i missed something, but if you prove me wrong i would be very thankfull.
if you need high % of luck it's not an stratatgy it's hoping for something to happned.


Use perfect hit passive to get around blinding taunters for a round or two. If you choose the rest of your team right, this should be enough to have either Mummy or SSD taken out in your first round. This works against many taunting teams but obviously not a safe bet against all the different teams with a SSD and Mummy in it.

Freeze and paralysing talisman have much lower triggering rates. Sure, it's a problem if they do trigger but that goes for most teams, not just the taunting ones.

There are entirely different ways to beat taunting teams using The Prisoner (as I think you are aware).

[Frost]

Slauki has told me he now finds Prisoner teams easier then non-Prisoner teams that have a Blue Bat. That makes sense

Weren't these talismans designed to mitigate the effect of the Prisoner when attacking a Prisoner team?

Seems like they've done that.

I have yet to see a Prisoner/Blue bat team for the reasons Sparton has mentioned. Not that it couldn't happen. But that's giving up a lot of firepower or other skills (healing/taunting/shielding etc)

So for those without a Prisoner and facing Siege, it's kind of like it was for us Prisoner players before the Talismans. I'd face a Prisoner team and strategy became more important - as well as a little luck. Bring your own blue bat and create a similar experience. If your Droid or Red Pyro isn't taunted you're golden. If he is - hope he's not next turn ;).

I don't envy the developers in dealing with this. The Prisoner SHOULD make a difference as my friend the Educated Fool says - he's the most desired character in the game - he should be kept special. But how MUCH of a difference is the thing.

I'll post my stats Sunday as usual. I'm not undefeated. But close. And I got to 300 without a loss. But many good teams without Prisoners seem to settle at the 93% win mark. Where should a Prisoner team be? 95%? 99%? Is a 6% difference too much for one character to make?

Don't want to derail the thread - but appreciate how the developers are listening but also being prudent before making sweeping changes.

I don't know Sparton reasons, but I DID see a Prisoner/Blue bat team. I won by the skin of my teeth, hardest team I ever got.

Prisoner teams are easy because people don't know how to build good ones. I win 99% of my Prisoner teams fights regardless if I go second. I mean 99% because sometimes they all focus my AoS and I'm pretty dead. Also, kudos to Sag, fought his Prisoner team 4 times and all were a draw, hell your corrupt Rescuer is a beast!

Also blue bat teams are big damn unfun to play against. Siege is way more annoying than Prisoner. But that's because how Siege works: For example the AGS cheat death skill should be reduced by 1 turn, but in fact it reduces by 2.

I don't know why the hell they made immunity talismans if that immunity can be negated by Siege. And yellow?!?! That ruins every build possible since many cleansers or immunity makers are warriors, sentinels or assassins.

Now those talismans just made Prisoner ever more op since if you go first you can't stun/freeze/blind/taunt him.

You guys pray that I never get a Prisoner, or I'll put an unbeatable team.

[konstifik]

Strategy is when you take something very average and turn it into something more.

Exactly, and if you do this, beating many teams (not all, of course) with SSD and Mummy becomes easy. There is a thread in the PVP section with some basic tips against taunters. It's a good start to find that strategy you need to beat taunting teams.

[Silentknight]

Slauki has told me he now finds Prisoner teams easier then non-Prisoner teams that have a Blue Bat. That makes sense

Slauki had no problem disposing of my Prisoner. Sry bud,burning lists! Now if I could just find that Gmac guy!!!

[Bradata]

You will not see many posts from me here, I am not a good typist but I felt that I should add my opinion here.
I would say that I disagree with all of you guys who say that the new talismans (immunity in particular) are worthless, now I can go against a lot of teams that I will usually skip in the pass weeks and win most of the fights. Now I'm like a Prisoner hunting dog, I see a team with one I attack it 99% of the time. Their revenge hurts me a lot later because my defense sucks big time (14%-16% at the most) but still these immunity talismans expanded my range of teams I can attack and succeed doing it. And believe it or not I am missing A LOT of the nice toons you guys have, Prisoner being one of them. My advice to you is to invest a little in the new talismans, do some reading in here for ideas how to set up a good attack team, test it against your own defense many times and go attack someone when done :D
And last but not least: Heavy Metal to the end!

[Silentknight]

You will not see many posts from me here, I am not a good typist but I felt that I should add my opinion here.
I would say that I disagree with all of you guys who say that the new talismans (immunity in particular) are worthless, now I can go against a lot of teams that I will usually skip in the pass weeks and win most of the fights. Now I'm like a Prisoner hunting dog, I see a team with one I attack it 99% of the time. Their revenge hurts me a lot later because my defense sucks big time (14%-16% at the most) but still these immunity talismans expanded my range of teams I can attack and succeed doing it. And believe it or not I am missing A LOT of the nice toons you guys have, Prisoner being one of them. My advice to you is to invest a little in the new talismans, do some reading in here for ideas how to set up a good attack team, test it against your own defense many times and go attack someone when done :D
And last but not least: Heavy Metal to the end!

Talismans work as intended! Problem is their color?,price & when equipped by Chuck. Not complaining...just the facts. Btw your typing is great...your opinions are valuable & always welcome!

[konstifik]

I looked at the thread and nothing work. Btw my user ID is elyse-6387. And by my rooster you can see I have some solid toons. But nothing to die for nor anything I haven't tried. Right now I have mummy, ags,troll,and Sentinel rescuer in my defense. But even that teams doesn't get my by.

Not sure what to tell you. You have all the toons I use in my basic anti-taunt team. You also have both Mummy and SSD, so you could temporarily put them on your defense to try out different strategies against them.

[Bradata]

Talismans work as intended! Problem is their color?,price & when equipped by Chuck. Not complaining...just the facts. Btw your typing is great...your opinions are valuable & always welcome!

Thanks!
You are right about the price, it's steep! And yes, they don't work against AoP but then you know better that that AoP is no good in defense very much, I see my team lost a few attacks from you today ;)
I might have been a little harsh in my previous post, I feel I have to apologize :D
Sorry guys!

[Silentknight]

Thanks!
You are right about the price, it's steep! And yes, they don't work against AoP but then you know better that that AoP is no good in defense very much, I see my team lost a few attacks from you today ;)
I might have been a little harsh in my previous post, I feel I have to apologize :D
Sorry guys!
Nah,coin toss been good to me today...still about 30/70,just at the right times!

[mjmxiii]

I looked at the thread and nothing work. Btw my user ID is elyse-6387. And by my rooster you can see I have some solid toons. But nothing to die for nor anything I haven't tried. Right now I have mummy, ags,troll,and Sentinel undead rescuer in my defense. But even that team doesn't get me by.


You are usually in my list... good defense. Been many a time that I don't get a playable turn against you.

Immunity talismans help but stacking is necessary against Siege teams

[Bradata]

Nah,coin toss been good to me today...still about 30/70,just at the right times!

I never posted my stats in Nicko's tread but believe me, my defense can't hold more than 14-15% every week. I am kind of high in the ranks only because I attack a lot and same as you, trying my luck with the top teams all the time ;)

[Silentknight]

I never posted my stats in Nicko's tread but believe me, my defense can't hold more than 14-15% every week. I am kind of high in the ranks only because I attack a lot and same as you, trying my luck with the top teams all the time ;)

Sssshhhhh!!! Lmao! Some call it cherry picking, I say if u wanna be the best u gotta beat the best!

[Caretaker]

Sssshhhhh!!! Lmao! Some call it cherry picking, I say if u wanna be the best u gotta beat the best!

So how do you like my prop on attack lists? :o
Congrats bradara on last week! GG!

[Bradata]

So how do you like my prop on attack lists? :o
Congrats bradara on last week! GG!

I'm sorry but what is GG?:(
I am not too good on these short names.

[Silentknight]

So how do you like my prop on attack lists? :o
Congrats bradara on last week! GG!

Prop on attack lists??? GG=good game

[Silentknight]

Slauki had no problem disposing of my Prisoner. Sry bud,burning lists! Now if I could just find that Gmac guy!!!

There he is! Starting early???

[Bradata]

Prop on attack lists??? GG=good game
Oh, boy! I'm old! Thanks!

So how do you like my prop on attack lists? :o
Congrats bradara on last week! GG!
Thank you! And good idea for defense you have, I hate your team, very unpredictable ;) skipping you very often...

[slauki]

i have an idea for the matchmaking problems, so i will post it also here, sorry for the spam :)

askora level 92
(max level 93)


matchmaking seems to put players together which it thinks are "similar" + some standard deviation. that'S how i understood it. askora doesn't fit into the mostly level 100 environment, so he is not on many lists. I'm pretty confident in this.

if we could look into the roosters of the other players maybe others have fewer level 100 chars and fewer talismans than others so that matchmaking seems to put him in a "lower cathegory".

it would be a explanation for askora at least.

why not creating a matchmaking, that is only based on ranks and attacks?

[Bradata]

i have an idea for the matchmaking problems, so i will post it also here, sorry for the spam :)

askora level 92
(max level 93)


matchmaking seems to put players together which it thinks are "similar" + some standard deviation. that'S how i understood it. askora doesn't fit into the mostly level 100 environment, so he is not on many lists. I'm pretty confident in this.

if we could look into the roosters of the other players maybe others have fewer level 100 chars and fewer talismans than others so that matchmaking seems to put him in a "lower cathegory".

it would be a explanation for askora at least.

why not creating a matchmaking, that is only based on ranks and attacks?

You might be right, I also head a feeling that we are in some sort of groups and that's the reason why some of us are less seen on the lists of attacks.

[BadTaste]

Hi there.
Anyone else experienced getting less iron coins for winning battels like my pictures shows? I've only gotten 13 iron coins for every 15 iron coin valued battles today. :mad:

[Patrice-1201]

Hey Troopers,

PVP has been fun but has been too costly both in Time and money and I need to take a break, basically I am being attacked constantly and therefore drop about 300 points every night. The sad thing is that my Attack team is good and I win against all top players and even my defense held Shaolindo 3 times but I can't face the sheer number of attacks and have to spend 60 ironistes per morning just to go back to the level of the night before. I have been attacked almost 509 times this week and 400 times both weeks before that... I see some players with 2500 points plus who have been attacked less than 100 times... this is just not fair...

See you all after the fix, I will keep playing all troopers everyday but my 750 battles this week are worth nothing :-(

Patrice-1201

[Nicko]

Hey Troopers,

PVP has been fun but has been too costly both in Time and money and I need to take a break, basically I am being attacked constantly and therefore drop about 300 points every night. The sad thing is that my Attack team is good and I win against all top players and even my defense held Shaolindo 3 times but I can't face the sheer number of attacks and have to spend 60 ironistes per morning just to go back to the level of the night before. I have been attacked almost 509 times this week and 400 times both weeks before that... I see some players with 2500 points plus who have been attacked less than 100 times... this is just not fair...

See you all after the fix, I will keep playing all troopers everyday but my 750 battles this week are worth nothing :-(

Patrice-1201

It wears on you waking up every day and seeing the drops.

Enjoy the break and hopefully this gets sorted out soon. I don't know if I'd say your battles were for nothing as you get this weeks rewards and lots of Iron Coins - and 750 battles is a lot - I don't think the attacks on you are disproportionate - I've attacked 774 times and have been attacked 542, so your numbers are right in line with mine.

Though maybe we're both at the wrong end of the list ;)

[Jofer16]

It wears on you waking up every day and seeing the drops. And I think unfortunately you're on the wrong end of the attack list - you showed up very often on my list - and so likely others as well.

Can confirm, I see Patrice frequently on my lists.

[Nicko]

Can confirm, I see Patrice frequently on my lists.

I just edited my response as his numbers are very close to mine. Though I seem to be on everyone's list as well ;)

But Jofer - you had a ton of attacks on you as well

[Jofer16]

I just edited my response as his numbers are very close to mine. Though I seem to be on everyone's list as well ;)

Guess I'm even fast on the forums too, in before the edit haha Yeah like my 12 list test last night, you show up quite a bit for me as well.

[Liebhild]

Something is totally wrong withe the probability calculation. For example coin toss: 14 rounds played, 2 times I was only 1st. Also the effect triggering is influenced through this. I guess they are trying somehow to manepulate probability and made there mistakes. If the same math genius programmed the attack list...

[slauki]

half of the shop is still locked for me and some buddys of mine. i can buy greens but not yellos talismans and no skillshards. hope it will unluck in the next hours.

EDIT: Shop was unlocked

[Coletrain]

half of the shop is still locked for me and some buddys of mine. i can buy greens but not yellos talismans and no skillshards. hope it will unluck in the next hours.

Same thing with me, Immunity Bulwark & Skill Shard are still locked.

[slauki]

i had an idea in the other thread and i would like to share it here:

how about some rare items that can change talismans slots to any colour you like? that would be great to custumize our own chars. much love and recources would flow in your direction.
don't know if that's technicly possible but it would be great. some kind of slot changes are necessary anyway especially with these new talismans. maybe BNW would be the right place for this rare
talisman slot changers...

[Fister]

I don't like the idea. If some toons is OP now, this will only make it worse imo.

[slauki]

I don't like the idea. If some toons is OP now, this will only make it worse imo.

yeah, it could have some game changing implications, but the toons that are OP usually have perfect slots anyway, so actually nothing would change regarding the OPnes;)
but i can see your point, might be too much of a game changer with unpredictible consequences. but i love the idea of creating/tuning your own char as you would like to have him.