Why PVP is accelerated capitalism and doomed.

[Patrice-1201]

PVP is like accelerated capitalism, why I am about to give up.

Dear Troopers and Dev team,

I have been looking at the PVP stats and results over the last 3 weeks as well as the rewards and I think that there is something fundamentally flawed.

The 3 keys to succeeding in PVP are:

1. Time and money. Looking at the total number of points of each of the top players and knowing how many points are lost due to the large number of attack we all receive. It takes a serious investment in both time and money to access the top spots.
2. Luck. Of course most of the game is decided on who goes first and this is decided by RNG. Not much to do here except spend more time and money.
3. Team and skills. Luck has got something to do here as well based on characters awarded by RNG and time and money also have a lot to do with endless grinding for skill shards, shards, runes and talismans.

My main concern has to do with the reward system which basically gives a lot to those who have 1, 2 and 3 above and therefore give them more 1 and 2 for the coming weeks. In other words their characters will get stronger from skill shards, they will get access to chances of obtaining stronger characters and increase their defense win rates while all others (below rank 25) get almost nothing.

Rewarding by tier or division is good. It tying it to finishing position makes it impossible for anyone without a lot of 1,2 and 3 above to contest. Has the rich keep fighting for top positions with their resources, the others fall even lower in terms of chances to hold against those richest who are getting richest.

As the logical and inevitable gap widens each week, the end result can only be that only 25 players will end up finding enough interest to keep battling in PVP in the long run. One of them might even become POTUS one day ;-).

I am personally upper middle class when it comes to LOTB and have invested a huge amount of 1, 2 and 3 but enough... I have a wife, 3 kids, a job, friends... I finish between rank 26 and 70 every week but last week should have been my last. The PVP contest makes me want to play another 300 games this week and I will but after that, I am not sure I can...

And by the way, I am religiously playing each and every of my Troopers every single day...

How do we solve this? I don't know. Reward week on week progression, limit the number of attacks per week, reward on points obtained but cover 200 players instead of 25 each week... so much had to be done. I would love your contribution.

I am also pretty sure that this is clearly the type of philosophy that our favorite band is fighting with a passion since over 30 years...

Thanks for reading and Up the Irons!!!

Patrice-1201

[Baba-8301]

With regard to (1), you specifically need time in the 8-12 hours immediately before the reset.

[Nicko]

How do we solve this? I don't know. Reward week on week progression, limit the number of attacks per week, reward on points obtained but cover 200 players instead of 25 each week... so much had to be done. I would love your contribution.


Patrice-1201

This is the issue right here. What's the solution? We KNOW attack lists are broken. We know they don't change enough (look how many times you and I attacked each other the last few days Patrice - just cause the names kept appearing!). Point being some of us have to play a lot more than others for the same rewards.

Ultimately those who play the most need a reward to continue. ShaolinLondo does not by any means have the best stats in the game. But he very honesty said he places well by playing a lot - which means buying Ironite - which keeps the game in business. I think the developers HAVE to reward that to survive, otherwise what is the incentive to spend? And if money doesn't come in the game is doomed anyway...

But how to engage the free to play(or minimal pay to play) players at the same time? That's a great question. I'm sure the developers are cognizant of this, but posting solutions - even if they're not used - may get their gears rolling. But I agree that there need to be more rewards for them or they will fade - and those free to play players are important - they leave reviews - they bring friends in who MAY be pay to play - they keep this online community engaged - so they can't be ignored.

[Sag7272]

With regard to (1), you specifically need time in the 8-12 hours immediately before the reset.

Big point there, was in a good position by mid week but many engagements kept me mostly unable to log on from late friday to saturday t'll reset... Man, from a previous week finishing 2nd... I end up 185, wow, and I have a good defense, can't imagine with a crappy one, ouch!

[Tritium]

I love your post, Patrice! I sincerely hope the devs look at it and consider making some quality of life game changes for all of us in PVP. The players are willing to talk if the devs are willing to listen.

[kkkreg5]

PVP is like accelerated capitalism, why I am about to give up.

Dear Troopers and Dev team,

I have been looking at the PVP stats and results over the last 3 weeks as well as the rewards and I think that there is something fundamentally flawed.

The 3 keys to succeeding in PVP are:

1. Time and money. Looking at the total number of points of each of the top players and knowing how many points are lost due to the large number of attack we all receive. It takes a serious investment in both time and money to access the top spots.
2. Luck. Of course most of the game is decided on who goes first and this is decided by RNG. Not much to do here except spend more time and money.
3. Team and skills. Luck has got something to do here as well based on characters awarded by RNG and time and money also have a lot to do with endless grinding for skill shards, shards, runes and talismans.

My main concern has to do with the reward system which basically gives a lot to those who have 1, 2 and 3 above and therefore give them more 1 and 2 for the coming weeks. In other words their characters will get stronger from skill shards, they will get access to chances of obtaining stronger characters and increase their defense win rates while all others (below rank 25) get almost nothing.

Rewarding by tier or division is good. It tying it to finishing position makes it impossible for anyone without a lot of 1,2 and 3 above to contest. Has the rich keep fighting for top positions with their resources, the others fall even lower in terms of chances to hold against those richest who are getting richest.

As the logical and inevitable gap widens each week, the end result can only be that only 25 players will end up finding enough interest to keep battling in PVP in the long run. One of them might even become POTUS one day ;-).

I am personally upper middle class when it comes to LOTB and have invested a huge amount of 1, 2 and 3 but enough... I have a wife, 3 kids, a job, friends... I finish between rank 26 and 70 every week but last week should have been my last. The PVP contest makes me want to play another 300 games this week and I will but after that, I am not sure I can...

And by the way, I am religiously playing each and every of my Troopers every single day...

How do we solve this? I don't know. Reward week on week progression, limit the number of attacks per week, reward on points obtained but cover 200 players instead of 25 each week... so much had to be done. I would love your contribution.

I am also pretty sure that this is clearly the type of philosophy that our favorite band is fighting with a passion since over 30 years...

Thanks for reading and Up the Irons!!!

Patrice-1201

Patrice, firstly, thank you for all the badges. You have been a tremendous help.

I saw the same flaws. Now there is new incentive to be attacked. LOTB has just posted new "special" rewards for playing Arena. I noticed that overnight, I was attacked by players that I had not seen before. I would see the usual suspects (MONTOYA) appearing on my Defense list, but this morning it was littered with new names.

I know that I will not pay to compete in Arena. I felt that being forced to play Arena was bullish. Give me new content, new worlds, new challenges. I've played this game religiously for the past 6-7 months now. All of the new content that was promised has now been set aside for this crap. As I said before, I'm really close to losing interest.

I see some of the people that post on this forum that they play for the love of the band. I too felt and still feel this way, but they should not get the two confused. The band does not run this game. I don't think anyone really knows how much, if anything, the band makes directly from this game. They can just be licensing their name and likenesses, the rest goes to the developers. I don't think the game has much longer in my opinion. Who knows. Getting disillusioned very quickly.

[mjmxiii]

Once again, another excellent post from you Patrice! Thanks for all the Trooper badges!

I've said from the beginning that PvP is intentionally flawed and designed to get us to spend cash on ironite by using bragging rights more than anything else. Reward and points system is so bad that very few of my Troopers actually play at all. I've had a lot that rank 5,000 or lower every week since it's launch.

Seems like the matchmaking system needs more players to work properly. Devs must feel that this "reward for playing PvP" contest will get more people in the arena but to me it's more like they too have noticed that a lot of the playerbase is not partaking.

There is one reason for this:
The RNG is a PvP killer. People aren't stupid. They know from reading the forums that if you don't have the OP chars that there is an extreme disadvantage, which is very true. It's almost impossible to beat certain teams when going second.

The irony:
RNG was designed to get us to spend cash for more ironite to buy more souls for that OP char so we can grind for runes and upgrade talismans so we can work toward that skill shard, etc, etc. But it seems the chances at OP chars have lowered over time as it's obvious NF felt the odds were too much in our favor. (The first part reminds me of the PSA where the dude does cocaine to work longer hours so he can buy more cocaine to work longer hours so he can....)

In short :D
The contest feels like a target for the profitability of the arena (ie: we need this many arena matches per player to reach profit goals or estimates) more than a "we really appreciate everyone" kinda thing. It sucks but they gotta make that money so whatever. It's still my favourite game and I can accept the things I can't change about it. Holding out hope that things will change or that they will listen and agree is borderline insanity.

[Ian]

So many great posts here, I honestly agree with everything said thus far. See a couple of my troopers here too - don't worry, I will always put you guys ahead of the arena, and thanks for the badges every day.

[powerslave74]

So many great posts here, I honestly agree with everything said thus far. See a couple of my troopers here too - don't worry, I will always put you guys ahead of the arena, and thanks for the badges every day.

I agree with @Ian; there are many great posts on this thread. I do agree with much of what has been said here too! I have also seen some of my troopers posting on this list too; do not worry I will always put using my troopers first before I play in the arena! Thank you for all of the badges you have sent my way, I have been returning the favor every day since we have become troopers. While the RNG has not been too bad for me as far as I can tell, it sure hasn't been great by any means. I have been matched up against teams with not just one Prisoner, but two! How am I supposed to ever have a chance to compete in PvP when I have to play against teams with a combination of Warrior Troll, AoF, SSD, Prisoner, PDK, GRE, CG, or Mummy Eddie.; I do not have most of these toons. I can not even earn enough Iron Coins each week to be able to buy the weekly skill shard!

[floki]

I am personally upper middle class when it comes to LOTB and have invested a huge amount of 1, 2 and 3 but enough... I have a wife, 3 kids, a job, friends... I finish between rank 26 and 70 every week but last week should have been my last. The PVP contest makes me want to play another 300 games this week and I will but after that, I am not sure I can...


Patrice-1201

same man, i go to school and have finals comming up, and now i have to play all troops and 300 battles...darn xD

[RACCAR-8000]

Great post Patrice and thanks for the badges, lots of great points by all here. I know it's a game and I have to keep putting my quarters in the machine but I've spent more money then I care to say. I also believe the rewards should be spread out . Pvp is fun I like it . It needs improving. If jofer wins every week that's not fun for anyone, except jofer.