May 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss general changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?5640).

[Tritium]

Ooh, I'm looking forward to this update. Bug fixes, character buffs, and skill updates ─ what's not to love?

I can already see that this update will shift the meta a bit. Those new skill changes for certain toons look rather intriguing...;)

[Browno]

Great fixes for many 5 star characters. Will definitely make them more viable in game :)

[Enti]

I already feel the pain in arena for not having a viking eddie

Well anyway, 4 characters down, how many more to go? AoF, AoP, Prisoner, VE and the list is slowly expanding

[Rodrigo-3281]

Is the AD repeal skill also being fixed like the Hellhound's?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Is the AD repeal skill also being fixed like the Hellhound's?

Ah, yes, that Repeal fix is for both characters. We'll ensure that's clarified for the full release patch notes.

[Rodrigo-3281]

Ah, yes, that Repeal fix is for both characters. We'll ensure that's clarified for the full release patch notes.

Great! Thanks for confirming.

[HomemLivre]

I already feel the pain in arena for not having a viking eddie

Well anyway, 4 characters down, how many more to go? AoF, AoP, Prisoner, VE and the list is slowly expanding

Yep, I think that now is the time to shard the Viking Eddie..

[Thedarkness]

I already feel the pain in arena for not having a viking eddie

Well anyway, 4 characters down, how many more to go? AoF, AoP, Prisoner, VE and the list is slowly expanding

Those red and purple newborns are probably on the chopping block.

[R1ck]

Looking forward to this update. Please consider a complete rework on Aces High Eddie. A 5* Gunner Eddie who is useless right now. I got him last year and hadn't been able to use him so far.

[HomemLivre]

Hey Sparton,

I didn't get how exactly is going to work the Visions Take, can you please explain it better?

And Im curious, why was this change necessary?

[Nicko]

Looking forward to this update. Please consider a complete rework on Aces High Eddie. A 5* Gunner Eddie who is useless right now. I got him last year and hadn't been able to use him so far.

Sparton said earlier today in another thread that they're looking at him soon for an update - which I agree is desperately needed. Fixing his fury and increasing his ATK scaling is at least a start...

[R1ck]

Sparton said earlier today in another thread that they're looking at him soon for an update - which I agree is desperately needed. Fixing his fury and increasing his ATK scaling is at least a start...

Good to know, in the mean time those 2 changes are fine.

[iPoop]

What's the point of changing the AoS talisman slot from blue to gold?

[Tritium]

What's the point of changing the AoS talisman slot from blue to gold?

More health + potential to use an immunity set without sacrificing as much.

[DIEDD]

Sparton said earlier today in another thread that they're looking at him soon for an update - which I agree is desperately needed. Fixing his fury and increasing his ATK scaling is at least a start...

Great! Please devs make all those skillshards worthwhile

[iPoop]

Also, if you're gonna be working on the magus haunted pumpkin, is there any way you could sync the animation of the CAST impact better with the crossing of the circles on the ground? Currently he's well into his backpedal when the circles cross. Perhaps its just me but I struggle the most with this toon to obtain perfect hits...primarily due to the out of sync animation. :o

[iPoop]

More health + potential to use an immunity set without sacrificing as much.

With the AoS DEF/MR being so low, I like the opportunity a blue talisman affords me to increase one of those values. A gold talisman will bump up the special instead of DEF or MR (unless Onslaught is used, but then you lose the HP). Perhaps its a wash though with the higher HP the gold brings to the party...

[Ezz]

Great! Please devs make all those skillshards worthwhile

+1
8 skillshards for 2 shields doesn't fly. Aces high is a 5 star gunner meant to hit hard or die trying. One shield option is more than enough if you want to try to keep him alive longer!

[DIEDD]

+1
8 skillshards for 2 shields doesn't fly. Aces high is a 5 star gunner meant to hit hard or die trying. One shield option is more than enough if you want to try to keep him alive longer!

Maybe replacing those shields with a unique new skill like the new skill of holy smoke eddie.Would be great.

[Demoonchild]

Great to see more cool adjusts and characters reviews...
I have always have thought that Assassin class needs a serious review.
They was planned as Glass cannon class but the damage, skills, HP, MR, Marks and Talismans are not helping the class so well in game.
I'm glad to see a revamp on the Resistance and Resilience Talismans, but they're still short on attack buff because of DEF and MR scaling on the class which has the lower stats on these.
Marks are an very interesting option but chars who cast them are not so interesting and the Eddie who can take advantage for them, has the lowest HP, def and Mr for an Eddie (Rainmaker) and I think that a higher ATK and Magic is not compensating that disadvantage...
Skills on Assassins are injured too, for example, a Corrupt Harpy needs like 7 Skillshards to maximize her basic to +50%, and a Green Harpy needs just 4 for an incredible +75%...

You are in the right way with the buffing way instead of the nerf one, your attention to players suggestions is also admirable, thanks for your efforts.

[MoonShadow]

Some nice changes / improvements all around, I'm looking forward for this one, as I'd like to train some other toons for the Arena, and I am thinking now of the Warrior & Assassin Soulless demons, which will get an extra turn after their special moves... there will be something! ;)

And now maybe the Viking will be more valuable as I'm starting to believe that the skill shards invested in him lately, will be worthy.

Also, since there are some changing in slot colours, even if this isn't the right place, may I suggest a look at the Desert Golem's slots for a future change? I believe that a change from the 3 yellow slots to a 2 yellow ones will make him worthy in the Arena. Thx.

On a side note, since there are some changes for the Resistance / Resilence talismans, will they return in the game? I have currently 2 Resistance (out of 3) and 1 Resilence (out of 2)... :p

[Kardas]

Very happy seeing the buffs for the two Pharaoh dogs. Always will love em even if I had like 9 of them.
And good to see that Talisman slot change for the Warrior Bomber Boy. Will certainly make it easier to balance out his ATK and MAGIC. I've been thinking of testing how I can balance those out, but I'll wait until the update's out. I'm sure the slot change for the AoS will also help it out.
Also good news about the Resilience and Resistance Talismans! Finally they'll leave the Assassin Talisman's shadow.

I get why the bat wing animation is getting fixed, but I found it strangely adorable. Reminds me of Archeops' hilarious idle animation in the newer Pokemon games.

Sparton, I have a few questions:
- Will Resilience and Resistance Talismans still have the 2 and 3 set bonus respectively?
- I wasn't around when you changed up the Daily Rewards. Why did the team decide to grant specifically the Gunner Undead Allied Soldier to players?

EDIT: This one already got answered.
- A while back the effects of the old Explosive Talismans were reworked. Are there any plans to rework their blue counterpart the Cyclone Talismans?

[Ringe666-7406]

Nice minor tunnings on VE, Warrior ABB and Magus CR. Also good to see adjusting on PDK and Extra Turns on him, Warrior Child and Demons. Wish that yellow slot on AoS came few months ago but oh well. Way to go \m/

[Patrice-1201]

Nice tuning to Viking and very glad to see the immunity passive being fixed for my Artillery Dog :-) can't wait for this and of course for Soul Fragments Eddie 🤘🏻

[Ian]

Am only really looking forward to Artillery Dog being fixed, that one was well overdue. Lots of other bumf for stuff I don't have. Surprised that sentinel harpy isn't being adjusted yet.

[Nekroliun]

The update seems ok, doesn't really affect a chat I use but more balance makes better gameplay so I guess "I can't wait for this update"

But no love for shaman? As an Eddie he's really cool, has a unique pose, a cool fury, a cool look... but he his dmg... its questionable... I feel like they could've done a thing or two for shaman to be usable.

[HomemLivre]

- A while back the effects of the old Explosive Talismans were reworked. Are there any plans to rework their blue counterpart the Cyclone Talismans?

Hey Kardas, the Cyclone rework was made at the same time as the Explosive. Now it has 35% chance to grant a Cyclone Shield to all allies on perfect attacks. Reducing and reflecting part of the magic damage as true with 35% chance to Silence.

[Nicko]

Am only really looking forward to Artillery Dog being fixed, that one was well overdue. Lots of other bumf for stuff I don't have. Surprised that sentinel harpy isn't being adjusted yet.

She is - they call her a warrior in the notes, but if you look at the Class she's a Sentinel

[Peppoah]

Hey Kardas, the Cyclone rework was made at the same time as the Explosive. Now it has 35% chance to grant a Cyclone Shield to all allies on perfect attacks. Reducing and reflecting part of the magic damage as true with 35% chance to Silence.

Yes, and they work as they're supposed to. I tried a set on my PDK.

I'm really looking forward to this update. Am I the only one, who's happy about the changes for Corrupt Owl Cultist? I have him such a long time on level 100 and thought so much about what I could do with him. The wait is over. The changes for the assassins undead rescuer and desert rider sound very good, too. Maybe you could do something for the Assassin Wicker Golem, too, as he hits pretty weak.
I'm not quite sure about the change of the talisman spot on AOS. For the moment I'm happy with my three assassin, two green and one blue talisman setup.

[Silentknight]

No fix for AoF. Just had another match with EZZ where AoF granted 2 extra turns??? Visions,Prisoner,AoF,Nomad

[Shaolin85london]

"Justice for all" they say...finally assassin class for too! Looking forward to try my purple killers in arena! Thanks Sparton and Kaz!

[Nine]

It is nice to see characters getting attention that are rather in the background at the moment and there certainly are some on the list I absolutely did not epect to see there, Burning Mummy Dog and Desert Rider for example!

Just some thoughts, going top to button here,but taking Skill changes for characters highr up the list into account:

- slot change for the Bomber Boy is much appreciated; not so sure about AoS, but two set boni are an arguement in favor of that

- is there a reason why the offensive stats of the Assassin BB are increased while the warrior ones stay the same? Is the assassin one intended to do more damage? (In this regard: you could have a look at the New Born of the Light, the Assassin one has lower defensive as well as offensive stats than its Warrior counterpart - except for Magic which is useless)

- not sure what to think about buffs to Furious Charge and Magic Charge. The abilities are pretty strong already and can be devastating in the right team, yet the characters who have them do all deserve a buff. Being not a huge fan of more rng I would prefer extending its duration, but we'll see how it will go. Nice to see the Pharao Dog buffed as well

- No idea how to judge the changes to the Rescuers and Droids. While I have all of those on the list I never felt the urge to level them, but that might be exactly the problem - although I considered it for the Warrior one who seems interesting. Could you go into detail what "Heals up to 3 random allies" means, that is, how high the chances for healing 1/2/3 are? (By the way, it would be great to know that for the most recent Endure change of Assassin Rocket Dog as well - which didn't make it into its Skill descreption at all, I read that people are seeing it as a bug...)

- Golden Son's trigger chance was long overdue, given that it is heal reduce and not block heal I wouldn't even mind going to 100%

- more Skill Shards required for Viking Eddie, yay...

- Magus CR's freeze still seems waay to strong, not convinced the change is enough

- suprised Thieve gets a buff, but it certainly gives the Troll more usefulnes in different teams. However, I would much prefer a fix of the Fervor charge bug that is somehow existing for an insanely long time and seems to be overlooked?

- buffs for the Owl Cultists are pretty interesting, making it the only 2* star with a Passive, unless I am overlooking something [edit: yep, overlooked the Harpies...]

- buffs for the Demons will make farming GoD more time intensive I guess (especially the Power Cost causing the sentinel ones to cast their shields more often :p )

- A clarification: "Take: Now has a 35% Chance to steal up to 3 benefitial effects from all enemies [per enemy!]", right? 3 buffs total wouln't match the addition in your brackets. As I interpret it the chances for Take are calculated per buff, correct? So an enemy toon with 4 buffs has a 35% chance of buff A being removed, 35% of buff B being removed and 35% of buff c being removed? And there is a 35% chance of buff D (and so on) being removed if the total isn't 3 yet?

- Unexpected buff of Navigator Eddie, but I'll take it. You could consider applying the not-removing-effects logic to the Desert Warrior, where it contrary to e.g. the Gunner BB doesn't say anything about consuming the effects

- Finally the long awaited Immunity fixes! If they are now blocking the Prisoner's passive as intended PvP can start again

- not suprised about the Harpy change, glad I didn't Shard her, but she had it coming


Sooo, last but not least, the issue that might be the most important one and I am really highly suprised about not being addressed properly:

- Strike Talismans

I will give my opnions about them in a more detailed post since I am afraid not many people made it until here and I think it is the most pressing issue that has to be discussed. Yes, as it turns out they are still bugged and that is corrected. But that will basically change nothing about them and they remain by far the most powerful Talismans in the game. By a wide margin. Since they have to be changed sooner or later (yes, I am absolutely convinced about that unless you want a complete change in the meta of the game) you have to that sooner rather than later. If they are touched after people have spent 10-15000 coins for them - I know I will if there is a guarantee they'll remain the same-, there will be a huge outcry and rightfully so.


(If anybody has ideas how to make this post more readable I am open to suggestions ;) )

[IronSentinel]

the list of fixes look good!
i only hope it does not break something already working

i am still waiting for a fix in the warrior AoF passive ability (extra turn for the first kill) which not always works.. usually works fine with a single targeted attack but it does not work when you get a kill with an aoe

also, there is a tiny little bug in the vs screen in toys of death (battlefield), the picture of assassin possessed mine is wrong

[Ezz]

No fix for AoF. Just had another match with EZZ where AoF granted 2 extra turns??? Visions,Prisoner,AoF,Nomad

Sorry about that. 😕

[Silentknight]

Sorry about that. 😕

Lol,no worries!

[Silentknight]

the list of fixes look good!
i only hope it does not break something already working

i am still waiting for a fix in the warrior AoP passive ability (extra turn for the first kill) which not always works.. usually works fine with a single targeted attack but it does not work when you get a kill with an aoe

also, there is a tiny little bug in the vs screen in toys of death (battlefield), the picture of assassin possessed mine is wrong
U mean AoF? If so AoE attack needs to be targeting killed toon

[Tritium]

Am only really looking forward to Artillery Dog being fixed, that one was well overdue.

Honestly, at this point, I'll probably even forget to use my HH once the fix is live. After becoming used to playing without it for so long, I practically forgot that I even had him...:rolleyes:

[Ian]

She is - they call her a warrior in the notes, but if you look at the Class she's a Sentinel

You are right Nicko, thanks. Was reading on my phone and could barely see

[mjmxiii]

1. Warrior ABB - Slot change is a welcome one, will there be a further review to balance his base magic stat so that he is more in line with other true damage chars?

2. Assassin SSD - So glad to see a slight change for him and his blood brother. Will you guys ever consider putting his useless high attack stat to good use by allocating it to his DEF and MR stats?

3. Soldier Ed - Would have liked to see a change to his 'Endure' skill as it is quite expensive for immunity and endure for only one char. Any plans to make that skill work for all chars or to work more similar to Artillery Dogs 'Entrench' skill (up to two allies)?

4. The Resistance and Resilience talisman changes are also welcome but are also not available at the moment, will these be added to the Arena store or will they be added to secret locations and will the Resistance still be 3-set or will they change to 2-set as they will be more similar to what Resilience talismans originally were?

5. When can we expect these changes?

[IronSentinel]

U mean AoF? If so AoE attack needs to be targeting killed toon

AoF yes.. sorry

didnt know that.. but it makes no sense.. maybe you target one and another gets killed.. how can you know ?? is it really the intended way?

another thing i can not sell evo runes.. i get an inventory error every time i try.. i have like more than a thousand

[Ezz]

Question on furious charge. It's supposed to grant the buff to allies for 2 turns. However every time I use it this it only works for 1 turn on my Eddie character. Is this intentional or a bug?

[Tridimensionale]

Good update.. fixes for the viking finally and some interesting talisman changes

Can t wait to try Pharaon dog and the other buffed toons

[Kardas]

Question on furious charge. It's supposed to grant the buff to allies for 2 turns. However every time I use it this it only works for 1 turn on my Eddie character. Is this intentional or a bug?

The way it works for magic charge is that the status effect is either consumed when used or lasts for 2 turns. So if you have say, a Carriage Rider and a Pharaoh Dog King together, and PDK does magic charge, PDK can take advantage of it the turn after he used it while Carriage Rider can consume it immediately via an attack (or use something like Lifeline and use it the next turn).

IIRC, magic charge also got consumed on Soldier Eddie if his Fury happened to do magic damage. It used to be a handy combo back in the day when the magic damage done by his Fury sucked in comparison to his physical or true damage

[Nine]

Alright, here we go:

- Strike Talismans

My interpretation of their intention

It is reasonable to assume they are designed to mitigate the first turn advantage of a team by forcing the player to either change their attack priority (by switching away from the toon who will counter attack you) or to react (by healing at the the end of your own (first) turn, for example).

What we got

Easily the most powerful Talisman set in the game, increasing the damage output of a character while active by a lot - with bad luck and the "wrong" team on the other side up to 400%.

Why are they so strong?

Here is where it becomes interesting. There are so many factors impacting this, who are each on their own very strong already but become even more powerful when combined.

- The effect is rather strong: Granted, the 400% given above are rather high and refer to a "worst case". Even under reasonable assumptions they outperform every other, especially red, Talisman, though. Even if a characters with a set counter attacks only once its damage for that turn is effectively increased by 100% for that turn. Let's compare that to other Talismans: Warrior CotD has the highest Attack in game now with 2128. A set of Strength Talismans give him a 15% bonus on that, which is 319. It's important to note, that since the set bonus only affects the base stats, the 15% bonus is not equivalent to an 15% damage increase. A CotD with 4 red, 2 green Talismans gets roughly 2100 more ATK by those, resulting in 4547 total ATK (impressive) - assuming 2 green here only is in favor of strike Talismans. The set bonus of the Strength Talismans account for ca. 7% of ATK, aussuming ATK enters lineary, that is equiivalent to the amount of damage. Now, Strength Talismans only need two to grant the bonus, so let's assume 3 of those result in 10% - which is again in favour of Strike Talsimans because that you can actually use 2 set of Strength Talismans is not said at all (and this would have to be the case for the average to be true).

So for these two types of Talismans to be equal the fight has to be 10 rounds long, if the Strike Talismans trigger only once (!) in one (!) turn. You can do the math how long a fights needs to be if they trigger more often - and how the chances are and arena battle lasts that long.

- The effect scales: This sounds like a minor footnote and I think I haven't read that anywhere on the forums but I think this one is actually rather important. This is only Talisman that actively scales with your character. The better developed your character, the stronger the effect. Up until now it was noticeable that this relationship was strongly avoided. There are Talismans that scale with enemies (burns for example), but this is the first of its kind. So even if other Talismans were equal with Strike Talismans at some point, you would always prefer them once your characters are maxed.

- They are extremely hard to counter: first of all, one can point out that if I read the intention correctly, they are doing exactly what they should. So good that if you are against them it is actually better to go second than going first in many cases. Why is that? Simply, if you go first, you don't have enough power to use alternatives to your basic attacks which means the Talismans will trigger and you have absolutely no way to avoid that. You can than try to heal yourself so will survive the actual turn of the enemy and you can try to work around this with energy Talismans but depending on the team you are up against the first one doesn't work and the latter one requires a huge amount of luck. Without Power there are excactly 3 characters in the whole game to counter them and one Talisman: Visions Eddie, Warrior and Assassin Newborn of the Light Void Shields. Visions Eddie is extremely rare and already (now) quite powerful. That the NotL are the counter against counter attacks is of course quite ironic, but they each only work against a single character. Then there are Void Shields. With no other Shield Talismans left in the game they are already way to valuable and basically no team can go without them, why they become even more essential now is completely beyond me.

With Power everything becomes easier, of course. But even then there are only a handful of characters that can remove benefitial effects (reliably), that they can't be blocked (contrary to e.g. Void Shields) doesn't help either.

- They last insanely long: When I first read about them I assumed they would be active for one turn. When I first saw them I thought the buff would vanish after a counter attack. When that didn't happen I hoped that there would be a limit of one per turn. Nope. They just stay on for what is basically a complete arena battle. Of course I had battles that lasted for more than 3 turns, but against (in the near future) a team full of Strike Talismans? Good luck.

- There is no way to prepare for them: Most other problems one is confronted with can somehow be prepared for by knowing what team you are facing. Since Strike Talismans aren't listed in the Team info you only know it once its to late. No adjusting your team like when facing a Prisoner. You can only always be prepared for them or never. Not reaching ahead here but that limits team selection severly.

Why is that all a problem?

I assume there are many reading this (at least of those who are actually reading :p ) thinking what the problem is, because after all, they are available for everyone, without being dependant on luck and no matter what state of the game you are in you will get them sooner all later. If everybody can (ab)use them everything is alright, right? Well, that is completely missing the point and I'll argue why. First of all it is important to point out that they are only now available in the store and will join other essentials like Immunity Talismans in the dark myths of the game until BNW is there. Than they have to farmed, at a - what can already be interpreted by Spartons words somewhere here, given their value - marginal drop chance.*

But even if one assumes everybody has them (even that they are completely free...which would save everybody at least 12000 Iron Coins) this is a huge problem:

- They limit Talisman selection: As shown above they are way stronger than their alternatives. One reason for that is of course also that there are no decent red talismans and there is no trade of with either freeze, stun or shields and counter attacks - although I would argue even those would be won. So everybody will reasonably equip them.

- They severly limit character selection: At the moment it rather funny to me that people are actually trying to equip a GRE with them, but that shows which is the way it goes. Given their power you will use characters where they are actually useful. To put it flat: good bye to every Magus character that wants to deal damage. Or every Assassin/Sentinel/Gunner character that deals magic damage and doesn't have outstanding support. Sounds drastic? I know.

- More automation: Now that we don't have taunting teams as drastic as before we get a new type of automated game play that simply isn't fun to play. If the enemy uses Strike Talismans you are effectively only playing every third turn, if you yourself use them to (which of course you'll do) it becomes every fourth (Yes, numbers vary depending on attacks/powers used).


At this point in time things are not that bad, but as I said in a post above if we wait until we actually have teams with 4 Strike Sets going against teams with 4 Strike sets it is probably way to late to change them without a major community outcry. And for all of this there don't even have be teams with three nomads, which still help to illustrate how problematic these will become - I can assure you it can come way worse than those but I won't go into to much detail or my defense team-to come is all over the place if this issue persists ;)

Please feel free to correct me if I am seeing things to pessimistic.


*ending with a "fun" fact about drop chances: Just completed 1000 SL today, still haven't got a full Death Talisman Set yet.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton,

I didn't get how exactly is going to work the Visions Take, can you please explain it better?

And Im curious, why was this change necessary?

We want Visions Eddie to still excel in the area of trying to remove beneficial effects from enemies with a basic attack, but the "all or nothing" way he was doing it before meant that there was very little counterplay opportunities.

Instead of now doing a 50% chance per enemy of removing all beneficial effects on a given enemy, it's doing 3 checks at removing just one thing at a time (but still per enemy). A 35% chance of removing up to 3 beneficial effects looks something like this (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3+trials+with+a+35%25+chance+of+success). This means that, assuming a target has just one buff, he's actually more likely to remove it, but once a character has two or three, it's more likely a "critical" buff (like Immunity, or a damage reduction shield) will not be removed, allowing for more counterplay by stacking more start-of-battle passives (character and talisman) that give status effects, or by using power skills which give more buffs to all of the characters on your team. Also, Accuracy now impacts this much more than before (Accuracy Up can be much more devastating, while Accuracy Down almost completely kills the effectiveness).

In short, we want to add more counterplay options against Visions Eddie's Take without just reducing the buff removal chance.


Also, if you're gonna be working on the magus haunted pumpkin, is there any way you could sync the animation of the CAST impact better with the crossing of the circles on the ground? Currently he's well into his backpedal when the circles cross. Perhaps its just me but I struggle the most with this toon to obtain perfect hits...primarily due to the out of sync animation. :o

We're not really working on him so much as just fixing a weird issue where the text information for his skill description got accidentally replaced and it took a bit for us to notice (it was reported from a player that the name got garbled).


I'm glad to see a revamp on the Resistance and Resilience Talismans, but they're still short on attack buff because of DEF and MR scaling on the class which has the lower stats on these.

It's important to note that Resistance and Resilience increase stats based on the characters Attack + Magic, not based on HP/Def/MR. The intent is that they're best with Assassins that want to trade the offensive value they could otherwise get with the Assassin Talisman set for something that shores up their defensive stats (or at least get more defensive stats than what purple talismans normally give while still gaining decent offensive stat gains, even if not as good at increasing defensive stats as Health or Iron or Ivory talismans would).


Also, since there are some changing in slot colours, even if this isn't the right place, may I suggest a look at the Desert Golem's slots for a future change? I believe that a change from the 3 yellow slots to a 2 yellow ones will make him worthy in the Arena. Thx.

We'll have a look at what kinds of talisman builds we'd expect to want to do with that Golem compared to similar characters and see if there is any room for improvement there.


On a side note, since there are some changes for the Resistance / Resilence talismans, will they return in the game? I have currently 2 Resistance (out of 3) and 1 Resilence (out of 2)... :p

Not yet, but they will be in the Brave New World.


- Will Resilience and Resistance Talismans still have the 2 and 3 set bonus respectively?

Ah, good catch; they're both going to be 2 sets now. We will update Resistance for the full patch notes to clarify they're becoming at 2 set.


- I wasn't around when you changed up the Daily Rewards. Why did the team decide to grant specifically the Gunner Undead Allied Soldier to players?

One of the things we felt we were lacking previously was rewarding specific characters for new players (as opposed to relying on Souls). We felt that the Gunner Undead Soldier would be a good place to start that new players could work towards and have something that could be helpful/interesting when they earn it, while still being a modicum of value for sacrificing for everyone else (alongside other changes we did for new players to clearly indicate quests where you earn specific characters).

We may change it up in the future, but for now it's just him each month.


But no love for shaman? As an Eddie he's really cool, has a unique pose, a cool fury, a cool look... but he his dmg... its questionable... I feel like they could've done a thing or two for shaman to be usable.

Shaman Eddie starts to really shine once you've given him buffs. I've been using him a lot with Angel of Fear, because using Shaman Eddie's Perils of Death to both Attack Up, Magic Up, and Extra Turns to your entire team means you can rip a hole in nearly any defense so long as it has one character you can bring down. With his Perils buffs, you can easily do things like 5k+5k Perils of Death, or a few thousand + marks with Hedged Bet, or even 4-6k with his Conjured Flame basic.

The biggest problem he has for fitting into any old team is that he doesn't synergize well with other characters that do true damage for the most part, which is obviously a pretty big part of the PVP meta, but he can still be a potent damager or strong support to enable others to do big damage.


No fix for AoF. Just had another match with EZZ where AoF granted 2 extra turns??? Visions,Prisoner,AoF,Nomad

There is definitely some deep, technical issues with how Angel of Fear looks for first blood triggers, but even though we're not doing much for that in the next update, we are queuing up all of the various issues we can and are going to have them be high priority fixes after this next update.


Could you go into detail what "Heals up to 3 random allies" means, that is, how high the chances for healing 1/2/3 are?

Basically, it's going have 3 chances to heal, with it being a 35% chance for each of those heals to occur. Each of those heals targets a random character on that character's team (could be itself, could be the Eddie, could pick one guy twice and another guy once, etc). The heal amount is for 15% of the affected character's Max HP.


(By the way, it would be great to know that for the most recent Endure change of Assassin Rocket Dog as well - which didn't make it into its Skill descreption at all, I read that people are seeing it as a bug...)

The change definitely is in the description (the skill description ends with "[...] for self and up to 2 additional allies.").


- suprised Thieve gets a buff, but it certainly gives the Troll more usefulnes in different teams. However, I would much prefer a fix of the Fervor charge bug that is somehow existing for an insanely long time and seems to be overlooked?

It's not a game data issue, so it's not something we can easily fix, and has to be prioritized relative to other tech issues, like Passive Disabled stopping talisman augments, or counterstrike triggering from reflect shield damage, First Blood triggering even though a kill hasn't occurred...

Basically, we know it's there, but the cost/benefit is not in it's favour relative to other combat-related tech issues.


- A clarification: "Take: Now has a 35% Chance to steal up to 3 benefitial effects from all enemies [per enemy!]", right? 3 buffs total wouln't match the addition in your brackets. As I interpret it the chances for Take are calculated per buff, correct? So an enemy toon with 4 buffs has a 35% chance of buff A being removed, 35% of buff B being removed and 35% of buff c being removed? And there is a 35% chance of buff D (and so on) being removed if the total isn't 3 yet?

Whenever something is removing (or stealing) a single beneficial effect, the beneficial effect is randomly chosen. For more about the math of that (and why we're going that way), take a look at my first response in this mega-comment.


Sooo, last but not least, the issue that might be the most important one and I am really highly suprised about not being addressed properly:

- Strike Talismans

[Short version of opinion on Strike Talismans]

Strike Talismans (and Life Talismans, to an outshadowed degree) are just the current phase of many meta-shifting changes that will be layered onto the game. It's expected that new additions will shift the meta, just like Shell and Immunity talismans did, or how the next batch of characters likely will, and how even more talismans from Brave New World will... and so on and so on as we add more content and features to the game.

Kaz just mentioned to me as I'm writing this that you posted your full thoughts in here, though, so I'll give that a read later today at the very least.

[Sparton_LOTB]

[Perhaps a bad sign; I just found out there's a character limit per post, and I was way over]




1. Warrior ABB - Slot change is a welcome one, will there be a further review to balance his base magic stat so that he is more in line with other true damage chars?

2. Assassin SSD - So glad to see a slight change for him and his blood brother. Will you guys ever consider putting his useless high attack stat to good use by allocating it to his DEF and MR stats?

3. Soldier Ed - Would have liked to see a change to his 'Endure' skill as it is quite expensive for immunity and endure for only one char. Any plans to make that skill work for all chars or to work more similar to Artillery Dogs 'Entrench' skill (up to two allies)?

4. The Resistance and Resilience talisman changes are also welcome but are also not available at the moment, will these be added to the Arena store or will they be added to secret locations and will the Resistance still be 3-set or will they change to 2-set as they will be more similar to what Resilience talismans originally were?

5. When can we expect these changes?


The Warrior ABB is meant to be more of a supporter than a damager, and the lopsided nature of his stats helps emphasise getting better benefits from Attack Up, or talisman skills that do physical damage (such as Meteor).
I can discuss it more with Kaz, but even with that odd high Attack, I don't think we'd consider reducing it for the sake of increasing the Def or MR unless we specifically wanted to increase those two stats (and that's not following the general direction we have for the Assassin Soulless Demon of glass cannon-y character who relies on his Invincibility for survivability).
Short of using something that removes buffs, Immunity + Endure means you cannot be killed and cannot be stunned/frozen/etc to break that chain, so I'd be weary of making this able to affect more than one character, or for lowering it's cost. Like Carriage Rider Eddie's Ghost, this is definitely a special case skill we don't expect to be employed often.
Both talismans will be 2 sets, and we don't have plans to make them available before their release in the Brave New World (at least no plans yet)
We are targeting mid-May.



Question on furious charge. It's supposed to grant the buff to allies for 2 turns. However every time I use it this it only works for 1 turn on my Eddie character. Is this intentional or a bug?

Kardas beat me to it, but to clarify further, the Charge status effects (Physical Charge, Magic Charge, MR Charge, etc) only increase the effect of a skill of the appropriate type once (ie they're "used up" once they've had an effect of improving one skill). That's different from stat up status effects (Attack Up, Magic Up, MR Up, etc), which are not as powerful, but will be able to affect a character for multiple turns of using their skills.

[Silentknight]

AoF yes.. sorry

didnt know that.. but it makes no sense.. maybe you target one and another gets killed.. how can you know ?? is it really the intended way?

another thing i can not sell evo runes.. i get an inventory error every time i try.. i have like more than a thousand

Just gotta judge which toon u target. Don't think it's intended but it's known. Contact support or post under bug report about runes

[Silentknight]

[Perhaps a bad sign; I just found out there's a character limit per post, and I was way over]

Now that's funny! But yeah, it's a big one! Nines fault.

[Ancient Mariner]

Is there any way to fix a problem i'm experiencing lately, which doesn't let me sell some of my runes?
Randomly some stocks seem bugged: indeed if i try to sell some of the runes of these stocks, an error message appears which tells there was a server error, and the game restarts everytime.
At first I thought it was cause i tried to sell a lot of runes at once (because some piles now count 300/400 runes), but actually it happens even if i only try to sell one of that pile, while another one (even from the same color) might not give any problem...so i got no idea what causes this, but it's boring, also because otherwise the number of runes will keep increasing while i'm no able to sell them

Any idea?

ps: and please, please add a sort of "quick battle" option which i'm waiting for so long, which would spare us a lot of time everyday, while now we have to manually control the game even for those boring battles we play just to gain trooper points. It would be fantastic to have the chance to select for example 10-15 troopers to use one after one in 1 second in the selected stages, or at least having a quick battle which simulates an entire stage battle, without showing the animation and saving us some time (hope i explained it clearly enough)

[floki]

This is the main post to discuss general changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?5640).

Appreciate the changes! But please don't make the desert marauder deal damage to everyone. He already is a very viable character. This is over the top i think

[hold]

Is there any way to fix a problem i'm experiencing lately, which doesn't let me sell some of my runes?
Randomly some stocks seem bugged: indeed if i try to sell some of the runes of these stocks, an error message appears which tells there was a server error, and the game restarts everytime.
At first I thought it was cause i tried to sell a lot of runes at once (because some piles now count 300/400 runes), but actually it happens even if i only try to sell one of that pile, while another one (even from the same color) might not give any problem...so i got no idea what causes this, but it's boring, also because otherwise the number of runes will keep increasing while i'm no able to sell them

Any idea?

ps: and please, please add a sort of "quick battle" option which i'm waiting for so long, which would spare us a lot of time everyday, while now we have to manually control the game even for those boring battles we play just to gain trooper points. It would be fantastic to have the chance to select for example 10-15 troopers to use one after one in 1 second in the selected stages, or at least having a quick battle which simulates an entire stage battle, without showing the animation and saving us some time (hope i explained it clearly enough)

Same with shards btw. I tried to sell some of my 3* evo rainbow runes (done the 100 5* and have too many of them -> server error - inventory not saved and restart ... I have even more of 2* rainbow runes and try to sell some -> server error inventory not saved and restart)

[Kaz_LOTB]

Appreciate the changes! But please don't make the desert marauder deal damage to everyone. He already is a very viable character. This is over the top i think

Just to be clear, we are not making the Desert Marauder (Gunner) deal damage to everyone. It's his Assassin brother, the Desert Rider that is getting a the buff.

-Kaz

[Ezz]

Appreciate the changes! But please don't make the desert marauder deal damage to everyone. He already is a very viable character. This is over the top i think

I think the change is to desert riders power move not marauder? AOE on marauder would be an op joke.

[mjmxiii]

*ending with a "fun" fact about drop chances: Just completed 1000 SL today, still haven't got a full Death Talisman Set yet.

Hey dude, I think Death Talismans have higher drop rates in Underworld... at least for me, thats where I got all three of my sets from. I notice they are listed in drop info for all SLs but I think they are much more rare in other worlds. Hope BNW fixes that for you.


[Perhaps a bad sign; I just found out there's a character limit per post, and I was way over]

Bad sign for Soldier Ed lol... damn dude, that was a serious round of 20 questions... still think you guys should take a look at that Endure skill of his but I guess everyone has a favorite char they think could be better...

I understand the thought process on War ABB and my SSD. Still would appreciate any discussion on the latter. Also good to hear that Resistance will become 2-set since I only have two lol. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[slauki]

Is there any way to fix a problem i'm experiencing lately, which doesn't let me sell some of my runes?
Randomly some stocks seem bugged: indeed if i try to sell some of the runes of these stocks, an error message appears which tells there was a server error, and the game restarts everytime.
At first I thought it was cause i tried to sell a lot of runes at once (because some piles now count 300/400 runes), but actually it happens even if i only try to sell one of that pile, while another one (even from the same color) might not give any problem...so i got no idea what causes this, but it's boring, also because otherwise the number of runes will keep increasing while i'm no able to sell them

Any idea?

same here with my green evo runes. they are bugged so i cannot sell a single one of them every other rune is okay.



ps: and please, please add a sort of "quick battle" option which i'm waiting for so long, which would spare us a lot of time everyday, while now we have to manually control the game even for those boring battles we play just to gain trooper points. It would be fantastic to have the chance to select for example 10-15 troopers to use one after one in 1 second in the selected stages, or at least having a quick battle which simulates an entire stage battle, without showing the animation and saving us some time (hope i explained it clearly enough)

well nothing would be so valuable like this. quickbattle would be great, but i gave up on that one... right now the game takes approx 2,5-3 hours per day just for burning sot and sow that's waaaaay too much for a mobile game i feel...

[Jofer16]

ps: and please, please add a sort of "quick battle" option which i'm waiting for so long, which would spare us a lot of time everyday, while now we have to manually control the game even for those boring battles we play just to gain trooper points. It would be fantastic to have the chance to select for example 10-15 troopers to use one after one in 1 second in the selected stages, or at least having a quick battle which simulates an entire stage battle, without showing the animation and saving us some time (hope i explained it clearly enough)

This was something I loved in SWGOH, the ability to instantly sim battles from what would be the equivalent of our map screens. Hit the sim button and results/rewards immediately pop up. And if they're worried about making the game too easy, implement a time refreshing sim ticket system to control how frequently you can do it.

Only problem with this is it's more of a "nice to have", so with the current state of the game seems like a long shot getting it prioritized before bug fixes and new content. Great suggestion though.

[mjmxiii]

Just to be clear, we are not making the Desert Marauder (Gunner) deal damage to everyone. It's his Assassin brother, the Desert Rider that is getting a the buff.

-Kaz

Please do lol! The DM would be like a Tusken Raider but with a magic bullet and perfect aim lol! He already has no need to aim as his attack animation just points straight anyway... LMAO! That would be so OP!

[Tritium]

well nothing would be so valuable like this. quickbattle would be great, but i gave up on that one... right now the game takes approx 2,5-3 hours per day just for burning sot and sow that's waaaaay too much for a mobile game i feel...


This was something I loved in SWGOH, the ability to instantly sim battles from what would be the equivalent of our map screens. Hit the sim button and results/rewards immediately pop up. And if they're worried about making the game too easy, implement a time refreshing sim ticket system to control how frequently you can do it.

Agreed on the sentiments about making the game less time consuming. Like Jofer, I also played SWGOH last year for a few months and LOVED the ability to "sim" battles and automatically get the rewards. It made playing the game so much easier and saved me a bunch of time.

LOTB would be a lot better for all of us and likely hold on to newer players for longer if it had a similar function.

[90mphyorker]

- Magus CR's freeze still seems waay to strong, not convinced the change

Me too. 2 turns freeze is too much. Especially when she is paired with a Bomber Boy. Should be 7 or 8 powercost if it is to remain as freeze for 2 turns.

[Silentknight]

No fix for AoF. Just had another match with EZZ where AoF granted 2 extra turns??? Visions,Prisoner,AoF,Nomad

2× same team

[Aristo4]

2× same team

Same to me, just now revenging EZZ.

[Ezz]

Same to me, just now revenging EZZ.

Sorry guys not sure why that is triggering twice still.
I am using the same exact team on offense and I have never seen it trigger twice?

[CanyptianFit]

Seen it a lot since last update.

Not sure, but think it is related to prisoner teams. Seems like you can get it once with prisoner alive, and again when he dies. Not really consistent tho.

[Chaosego888]

2× same teamSame here. I see this a lot with other teams as well. Sometimes it doesn't trigger first time but triggers later after 2nd kill also

[Ezz]

Same here. I see this a lot with other teams as well. Sometimes it doesn't trigger first time but triggers later after 2nd kill also

Don't like exploiting a flaw. Yanked the prisoner from my defense. Hopefully no more multiple extra turns.

[Tritium]

Don't like exploiting a flaw. Yanked the prisoner from my defense. Hopefully no more multiple extra turns.

Wow, I wish more players were like you. Your integrity is much appreciated!


On-topic: Not sure if I've ever seen the AoF multiple extra turns bug, but I'll keep an eye out for it going forward. I don't have a Prisoner, so if him dying on your own side is the cause of this bug, then it explains why I haven't experienced it yet.

[Silentknight]

Don't like exploiting a flaw. Yanked the prisoner from my defense. Hopefully no more multiple extra turns.

I wouldn't worry bout it, when I mentioned it last week AoFs started multiplying. I think it might be ur talismans. Remove all them and attack me a few more times,lmao!

[MoonShadow]

Not yet, but they will be in the Brave New World.OK, thanks for your response Sparton, I guess all I have to do is just to wait for the release of the BNW.. more anxiously now, since the future tuning improvements leave room for some experiments.

[Ezz]

Question on Immunity effect change in the update. Does this mean Visions Eddie and Warrior Newbitn of light etc. will no longer be able to remove beneficial effects from toons with immunity?

[Fister]

Is there any way to fix a problem i'm experiencing lately, which doesn't let me sell some of my runes?
Randomly some stocks seem bugged: indeed if i try to sell some of the runes of these stocks, an error message appears which tells there was a server error, and the game restarts everytime.
At first I thought it was cause i tried to sell a lot of runes at once (because some piles now count 300/400 runes), but actually it happens even if i only try to sell one of that pile, while another one (even from the same color) might not give any problem...so i got no idea what causes this, but it's boring, also because otherwise the number of runes will keep increasing while i'm no able to sell them

Any idea?

ps: and please, please add a sort of "quick battle" option which i'm waiting for so long, which would spare us a lot of time everyday, while now we have to manually control the game even for those boring battles we play just to gain trooper points. It would be fantastic to have the chance to select for example 10-15 troopers to use one after one in 1 second in the selected stages, or at least having a quick battle which simulates an entire stage battle, without showing the animation and saving us some time (hope i explained it clearly enough)

I tried this myself some time ago. I play on a cellphone at work and on a tablet at home. Apparently when I used or sold an rune, shard or soul at work it would still remain in my inventory when I opened the game on my tablet.

Only way to solve it was to delete and reinstall LOTB on my tablet.

Hope it will work for you as well. If not send an email to NF

[Nicko]

Question on Immunity effect change in the update. Does this mean Visions Eddie and Warrior Newbitn of light etc. will no longer be able to remove beneficial effects from toons with immunity?

My impression was the opposite. There was a bug where Immunity prevented certain characters like Blue CR and Viking Eddie from stealing beneficial effects. That will no longer be the case.

[zdm-1083]

x3 = old x2
x2 = old x1
x1 = x0 ???

Hmm, why?
When I was looking for a x8 when autoplaying game for Troopers...

Why? :'(

This a so quite boring part that looks like a second full time job because of 50 troopers to do...

Why??

Even more that raises the question of existence of this new x1.
Is there anyone playing in x1 today???

[Sparton_LOTB]

Question on Immunity effect change in the update. Does this mean Visions Eddie and Warrior Newbitn of light etc. will no longer be able to remove beneficial effects from toons with immunity?


My impression was the opposite. There was a bug where Immunity prevented certain characters like Blue CR and Viking Eddie from stealing beneficial effects. That will no longer be the case.

What Nicko said; currently, you can't steal from Immune characters, which is not intended. Being able to remove buffs from Immune enemies will still work as it currently does.


x3 = old x2
x2 = old x1
x1 = x0 ???

Hmm, why?
When I was looking for a x8 when autoplaying game for Troopers...

We've actually internally looked at having faster autoplay speeds, but once you go past a certain point, hit events that are pulled from the character animations start being skipped, or overlap, or some other weirdness... resulting in combat hanging because it can't keep up. This is why we made it so auto battle can go a bit faster than manual speed, as it lets us go a bit faster without hitting whatever point certain skills become problematic.

Additionally, it's going to start getting to the point where regardless of how fast combat is, load times going out of and into battle become more of the actual time needed for doing the grind, which is why I've been looking into solutions on the side to help optimize the "pick the next trooper" flow, and we have tasks for our programmers to further look at load time optimizations for combat in general (to help with both the trooper grind and PVP sessions). And, of course, the subject of auto-battle tickets have come up, but as Jofer surmised, it's not high on our priority list (yet).


Is there anyone playing in x1 today???

You'd be surprised... that's why we'll still have the slower options.

Think of it like the Smart Steering that's in the new Mario Kart 8 Deluxe; it's not there for most people, but it's a huge boon for some. Since our game has a timing mechanic built into most combat actions, it's an important accessibility consideration, which is why we're expanding the speed options instead of just slowing down the slower option.

[Tritium]

What Nicko said; currently, you can't steal from Immune characters, which is not intended. Being able to remove buffs from Immune enemies will still work as it currently does.



We've actually internally looked at having faster autoplay speeds, but once you go past a certain point, hit events that are pulled from the character animations start being skipped, or overlap, or some other weirdness... resulting in combat hanging because it can't keep up. This is why we made it so auto battle can go a bit faster than manual speed, as it lets us go a bit faster without hitting whatever point certain skills become problematic.

Additionally, it's going to start getting to the point where regardless of how fast combat is, load times going out of and into battle become more of the actual time needed for doing the grind, which is why I've been looking into solutions on the side to help optimize the "pick the next trooper" flow, and we have tasks for our programmers to further look at load time optimizations for combat in general (to help with both the trooper grind and PVP sessions). And, of course, the subject of auto-battle tickets have come up, but as Jofer surmised, it's not high on our priority list (yet).

I can't wait for immunity to no longer prevent stealing buffs. That bug alone made Cyborg's Scan skill become quite wonky and virtually useless most of the time.

Regarding the combat speeds, I've seen instances where character attacks overlap. Usually it's when a GRE multi-attacks my Nomad (who is armed with counter talis) and then gets both revenged by my warrior NoL and countered by my Nomad while he's still going through his attack animations. It's rather entertaining haha.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Regarding the combat speeds, I've seen instances where character attacks overlap. Usually it's when a GRE multi-attacks my Nomad (who is armed with counter talis) and then gets both revenged by my warrior NoL and countered by my Nomad while he's still going through his attack animations. It's rather entertaining haha.

Yeah, as far as I know that doesn't have anything to do with attack speeds, but does have something to do with characters using a skill which can reset (Grim Reaper Eddie being the most popular character that can occur with). As far as I can tell, it's a benign bug that doesn't cause problems (but yes, can be pretty entertaining when it does occur).

[CanyptianFit]

Regarding speeds. Like tritium said GRE is culprit, but also Golden sons. Sometimes the GS animation doesn't even show, you just see results.

[Tritium]

Regarding speeds. Like tritium said GRE is culprit, but also Golden sons. Sometimes the GS animation doesn't even show, you just see results.

Never seen the GS one. Does it only happen in 2x speed? The GRE one only happens for me in 2x speed.

[CanyptianFit]

Tritium, yes, on 2x speed and when the opponent goes first and has GS.

[Ringe666-7406]

Hey Sparton, for a long time I am bearing with a thought that maybe defensive draws should be rewarded with points (full, or at least half, you would be deciding anyway) to a defending team. Reason is simple: attacker didn't win and doesn't get points, also didn't lose so no points are lost, but defense did what it is supposed to do, it held the attack even though it didn't win. Keep up the good work \m/

[Enti]

Hey Sparton, for a long time I am bearing with a thought that maybe defensive draws should be rewarded with points (full, or at least half, you would be deciding anyway) to a defending team. Reason is simple: attacker didn't win and doesn't get points, also didn't lose so no points are lost, but defense did what it is supposed to do, it held the attack even though it didn't win. Keep up the good work \m/

This is actually a brilliant idea and is supported by good a argument

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton, for a long time I am bearing with a thought that maybe defensive draws should be rewarded with points (full, or at least half, you would be deciding anyway) to a defending team. Reason is simple: attacker didn't win and doesn't get points, also didn't lose so no points are lost, but defense did what it is supposed to do, it held the attack even though it didn't win. Keep up the good work \m/


This is actually a brilliant idea and is supported by good a argument

Generally speaking, draws aren't a fun result to a battle (usually means a battle has dragged on, and either it's in a state where neither side could win or the attacker doesn't want to risk trying to slowly bring down the remaining defender(s). As such, I don't know if I want to encourage people to build defenses that reward you for encouraging an attacker to draw. You are right, though, that the main thing is building a defense to not lose, which normally means win, but even a draw is an improvement from a loss. But still, people don't need more encouragement to run characters like Gunner Corrupt Rescuer...

I dunno, I'll think about it and pass it along to the team.

[Ian]

But still, people don't need more encouragement to run characters like Gunner Corrupt Rescuer...


'Balance' them then. I'm seeing teams with two GCRs now, they are beatable but it's a bit of a slog. Perhaps the Titan shield is overkill, or perhaps the power skill needs higher cost.

[slauki]

Hey Sparton, for a long time I am bearing with a thought that maybe defensive draws should be rewarded with points (full, or at least half, you would be deciding anyway) to a defending team. Reason is simple: attacker didn't win and doesn't get points, also didn't lose so no points are lost, but defense did what it is supposed to do, it held the attack even though it didn't win. Keep up the good work \m/


This is actually a brilliant idea and is supported by good a argument

yep fully support the idea, really genius. i don't think anyone will change his defense based on that, because we all try to put in our best defenses out there. actually i would be pretty happy today if
my defense would get a draw instead a loss, so we are almost equally motivated to setup a defense that can get a draw now...
draws are really rare nowadays, so i don't think this would be that much of an issue tbh.


'Balance' them then. I'm seeing teams with two GCRs now, they are beatable but it's a bit of a slog. Perhaps the Titan shield is overkill, or perhaps the power skill needs higher cost.

and this is definetly true...most ridiculous toon ever if you ask me. but since many chars are extremly powerfull now, she is not that outstanding as she was weeks ago.

[Tritium]

'Balance' them then. I'm seeing teams with two GCRs now, they are beatable but it's a bit of a slog. Perhaps the Titan shield is overkill, or perhaps the power skill needs higher cost.

Easiest solution I see is to make her titan shield last for 2-3 rounds at the beginning of battle, rather than popping up again at the start of every round. She's ridiculously tanky in her current state.

[HomemLivre]

Easiest solution I see is to make her titan shield last for 2-3 rounds at the beginning of battle, rather than popping up again at the start of every round. She's ridiculously tanky in her current state.

I don't think so. This char was extreme powerfull some time ago but thats no the case right now. I have no problems facing him and even the team with two GCR.
We just need to be creative and use chars that sometimes we forget about. This new patch is a good exemple, a cool buff to Assassins, that will make this problem that you guys are talking about a lot easier.

If the game is supposed to be easy wheres the fun? The fun for me lies in facing teams like this one with two GCR and force me to think twice in wich chars I will bring to battle not in a easy brain dead attack strategy of a mono team (becouse all of the defense teams are equally easy to defeat).

[Tritium]

I don't think so. This char was extreme powerfull some time ago but thats no the case right now. I have no problems facing him and even the team with two GCR.
We just need to be creative and use chars that sometimes we forget about. This new patch is a good exemple, a cool buff to Assassins, that will make this problem that you guys are talking about a lot easier.

If the game is supposed to be easy wheres the fun? The fun for me lies in facing teams like this one with two GCR and force me to think twice in wich chars I will bring to battle not in a easy brain dead attack strategy of a mono team (becouse all of the defense teams are equally easy to defeat).

Tweaking one toon isn't going to ruin the fun of the game. Compare GCR to every other toon in terms of damage capability, survivability, and overall usefulness and I guarantee she will come out ahead of nearly every other toon out there. She just has too many cool tricks for one toon to have. Titan shield every turn, ability to revive a toon for a miniscule cost, grants endure to the entire team for 2 turns, and has a decent AOE attack. Sorry to say, but that doesn't seem balanced to me.

She'll still be incredibly powerful if she lost one of her current gimmicks or was changed to require a higher power cost for her arguably the most useful power skill in the game. People don't usually choose to use two of the same toons in one team, but when they do, odds are that the toon in question is either borderline OP, or just flat out OP. If somebody was lucky enough to pull 3 GCRs, I imagine a team of all of them and a GRE would be incredibly difficult to take down.

What other toon is good enough to consider using a team of 3 clones? The SSD or the current version of the sentinel Harpy are the only ones I can think of right now. Even a team of 3 Nomads, the hardest hitters in the game, wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem.

[HomemLivre]

Tweaking one toon isn't going to ruin the fun of the game. Compare GCR to every other toon in terms of damage capability, survivability, and overall usefulness and I guarantee she will come out ahead of nearly every other toon out there. She just has too many cool tricks for one toon to have. Titan shield every turn, ability to revive a toon for a miniscule cost, grants endure to the entire team for 2 turns, and has a decent AOE attack. Sorry to say, but that doesn't seem balanced to me.

She'll still be incredibly powerful if she lost one of her current gimmicks or was changed to require a higher power cost for her arguably the most useful power skill in the game. People don't usually choose to use two of the same toons in one team, but when they do, odds are that the toon in question is either borderline OP, or just flat out OP. If somebody was lucky enough to pull 3 GCRs, I imagine a team of all of them and a GRE would be incredibly difficult to take down.

What other toon is good enough to consider using a team of 3 clones? The SSD or the current version of the sentinel Harpy are the only ones I can think of right now. Even a team of 3 Nomads, the hardest hitters in the game, wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem.

Well, theres some strategies to destroy a team even with 3 GCR, use the forgotten AoP with heavy hitters (like an AGS), It's so simple that it makes me feel stupid to say it.

Some points that I noticed facing him in the arena:
- Damage is a joke, fully sharded hitting 1900 to 2500?
- Easy counter
- Cost of power skill seems fine since devs changed ress health - She ress only one random toon so looks fine for me 6 energy when a Pharaoh have the same cost, heals a good amount all the team and ress all the team.

Anyways, after that I said imo she looks fine as she is.

[Zapathusara]

Well, theres some strategies to destroy a team even with 3 GCR, use the forgotten AoP with heavy hitters (like an AGS), It's so simple that it makes me feel stupid to say it.

Some points that I noticed facing him in the arena:
- Damage is a joke, fully sharded hitting 1900 to 2500?
- Easy counter
- Cost of power skill seems fine since devs changed ress health - She ress only one random toon so looks fine for me 6 energy when a Pharaoh have the same cost, heals a good amount all the team and ress all the team.

Anyways, after that I said imo she looks fine as she is.

just a small note, you can silence or block she with Harpy, Prisioner, DM, hell, even the purple sister Assassin CR (not worth until next patch, though).

Not to mention Newborns and the blue sister.
Hmmmm, maybe I will retry the Powerpuff Girls Team (with all three CR)

[HomemLivre]

Hmmmm, maybe I will retry the Powerpuff Girls Team (with all three CR)

Hahahaha, that will be fun!

[MoonShadow]

Hmmmm, maybe I will retry the Powerpuff Girls Team (with all three CR)Oh, yes... you'll need a "Johnny Bravo" Eddie, then! :D

More seriously now, GCR is a powerfull toon, but she can be taken down easily... sometimes, because she becames a real menace when paired with the right companions, and as soon as I get close to the higher ranks, I see a lot of defenses which have her amongst other best PvP toons. Those defenses are pretty hard to beat.

[Kraznoff]

I don't think so. This char was extreme powerfull some time ago but thats no the case right now. I have no problems facing him and even the team with two GCR.
We just need to be creative and use chars that sometimes we forget about. This new patch is a good exemple, a cool buff to Assassins, that will make this problem that you guys are talking about a lot easier.

If the game is supposed to be easy wheres the fun? The fun for me lies in facing teams like this one with two GCR and force me to think twice in wich chars I will bring to battle not in a easy brain dead attack strategy of a mono team (becouse all of the defense teams are equally easy to defeat).

Bingo. Plus GCR is easily beatable with any of the plethora of characters that remove buffs.

[Ringe666-7406]

She alone is not really a problem. Pyro's burns paired with void shield is medicine for her. I didn't want to point out any char for nerfing (as someone said she is now lot less tougher). But draws can also happen with two nomads, two CDs or even two SSDs, atacking each other to eternity.

[satani]

x3 = old x2
x2 = old x1
x1 = x0 ???

Hmm, why?
When I was looking for a x8 when autoplaying game for Troopers...

Why? :'(

This a so quite boring part that looks like a second full time job because of 50 troopers to do...

Why??

Even more that raises the question of existence of this new x1.
Is there anyone playing in x1 today???

Well, it would benefit a friend of mine playing on a 1GB Tablet at 720p because the game run's horribly low on his machine. IMO it's not playable, but he's stubborn on still playing and refusing to buy a new device. For him, it would be "funny" to play at 0x speed, cause he would finally get perfect hits on purpose, not by accident/random/luck.

I admit that currently, when switching from pve autoplay 2x to pvp, i sometimes forget, that 2x speed is still on and yet manage to get perfect hits on first attacks.

[slauki]

just because you can deal with a char this doesn't mean he is okay...we can imagine a 500k damage dealer who can be countered by a block character and a reviver...so he is perfectly fine and reasonalby strong because we can deal with him/her?
i have to disagree on this one....

[Ringe666-7406]

just because you can deal with a char this doesn't mean he is okay...we can imagine a 500k damage dealer who can be countered by a block character and a reviver...so he is perfectly fine and reasonalby strong because we can deal with him/her?
i have to disagree on this one....

I am not saying she is good as she is, far from that, I also consider her a bit OP. But my point is totally missed here :D

[zdm-1083]

For me, GCR is a powerful toon but manageable, what bugs me is the fact that is powermove is not working as intend: there _no_ loss on life when reviving an ally!

@Sparton: sounds logic :]

[R1ck]

Yes, she is buggy, when reviving an Eddie he doesn't get endure.

[HomemLivre]

I already pointed some reasons that I don't think that shes OP, imo shes only the best support char you can have in your team in no need to bring a Pharaoh Eddie.
I can't even imagine a char that does 500k damage, this is totally out of the scenario of this game lol, and well, she hit in most 500k - 496k agains a assassin with low armor hahahah

Its a powerfull char that if you have her you must bring with you depending on your team, like many other chars, including all of her sisters will be after this patch.
Im just a little tired of all this chats about nerfs and blablabla, imho, we just need to focus and point where a buff is needed and do it so.

The game will always change and the meta to, if you don't adapt to it you will fail and there will be complains about every single char that are most used in the current meta. Everyone knows that I really like Visions, he will be nerfed hard and Im ok with it since the devs said why the nerf is needed. All the meta will be changed and maybe the Viking will start to shine, so there will be complains about the Viking and any other toon that shine with him to and thats why I will try to tune out of this kind of chats.

Cheers

Edit: Like zdm said theres some bugs related to titan shield and when the last week ended the first thing I did was to report devs about her shield (you can confirm with Kaz) and they said that all the shields have attention to bug fixes.

[HomemLivre]

Yes, she is buggy, when reviving an Eddie he doesn't get endure.

I think that the bug is sometimes visual and sometimes not. Just for science I tried to stole "no buffs" from a revived char from her and the result was a Endure stolen even not showing on that char.

[CanyptianFit]

That's my experience too Homemlivre. The endure doesn't always show when revived, but does show next round.

Need to be careful if you are thinking you can get a kill when really you can't.

[R1ck]

In my tests my Eddie did not get endure and he was killed. But as mentioned, sometimes he gets endure sometimes he doesn't.

[HomemLivre]

Hope that devs have the time to fix this and try to update it to in this next patch.

[R1ck]

Hope that devs have the time to fix this and try to update it to in this next patch.
+1 hope so as well

[Nicko]

At this point I'd take what they have if it addresses the point system and not worry about fixes other than what's listed. They need to get this update out ASAP

All of these fixes are for naught if you're rewarded in PvP for sitting on your arse and penalized for playing...

[Nine]

Kaz just mentioned to me as I'm writing this that you posted your full thoughts in here, though, so I'll give that a read later today at the very least.

Do you have any thoughts on what I argued in post #45? If you can refute my worries I'd gladly take it, but I really think this will become a pressing issue. As it is I'd interpret the lack of a comment in a way that you are not fully agreeing with the points I made ;)


In regards to the Magus CR:


Me too. 2 turns freeze is too much. Especially when she is paired with a Bomber Boy. Should be 7 or 8 powercost if it is to remain as freeze for 2 turns.

It should also be noted that, while most balancing concerns are aimed towards PvP nowadays, the character makes an absolute joke out of all PvE levels that don't have a Hellhound, Rocket Dog or Boss in them. Give him an accuracy buff and you can beat GoD Madness with a team otherwise full of level 1 toons.


To close with a bug: Shaman Eddie's fury is not wokring properly and applies all 3 posibilities at the same times to enemies, sometimes mulitiple times. Played GoD with him and all 4 enemies in the last wave got 6 marks each with one or two of the debuffs on top. Magus CoD even got 9 marks...


Edit: almost forgot: sorry for the entrench falsity. Maybe I checked it in the German version, but I could have sworn it wasn't there. Could you never the less elaborate on the chances of one or two allies getting the buffs?

[mikmar]

I don't know if is a known issue, but currently it' impossible to sell things (evo runes, shards and so on) if the amount of item to sell is more than 200.
The application displays an error and you can only exit.

[Sparton_LOTB]

At this point I'd take what they have if it addresses the point system and not worry about fixes other than what's listed. They need to get this update out ASAP

All of these fixes are for naught if you're rewarded in PvP for sitting on your arse and penalized for playing...

Don't you worry, there's key fixes to the matchmaking and point systems in the next patch, in conjunction with some solid motivation to earn a lot of Iron Coins.

Those of you with massive war chests of Iron Coins will also have a special one-time offer to get, too.


Do you have any thoughts on what I argued in post #45? If you can refute my worries I'd gladly take it, but I really think this will become a pressing issue. As it is I'd interpret the lack of a comment in a way that you are not fully agreeing with the points I made ;)

I've been kinda mulling over how to respond, because while I think we can all agree that the Strike Talismans are really powerful (perhaps disproportionately so with less availability of the other Brave New World talismans it was designed alongside), you really pass over a lot of key things that solidly counter them, and I want the player base as a community to find out and solve these problems for themselves instead of us as developers giving you all the ideas.

Ironically, a lot of the same things that counter the Gunner Corrupt Rescuer counter characters wielding Strike Talismans, so if the meta includes a lot of those things, then counters to those are even more important to have, and will help make short work of teams that use both... but even then, there are even more things that stop Strike users in their tracks on top of the counters it shares with handling a Rescuer's Titan Shield. You said yourself you feel it's better to go second to stop them, but I encourage you to look at the characters in the game and I think you'll find quite a few with basic skills that can help...

(Or be that guy with an Alliance General with Strike Talismans. I did not expect to have basically no power the entire fight, so even though I won, that really made me think, and I imagine that dude works just as well on offense as he was on defense.)


In regards to the Magus CR:

It should also be noted that, while most balancing concerns are aimed towards PvP nowadays, the character makes an absolute joke out of all PvE levels that don't have a Hellhound, Rocket Dog or Boss in them. Give him an accuracy buff and you can beat GoD Madness with a team otherwise full of level 1 toons.

Yeeeeeah... the original campaign definitely wasn't designed with the kinds of stuff we ended up adding in mind. Thankfully, for most end game players the campaign is purely a matter of grinding, but it's something that'll be accounted for more in future features.


To close with a bug: Shaman Eddie's fury is not wokring properly and applies all 3 posibilities at the same times to enemies, sometimes mulitiple times. Played GoD with him and all 4 enemies in the last wave got 6 marks each with one or two of the debuffs on top. Magus CoD even got 9 marks...

An unfortunate knock-on to fixing the issues with Immunity stopping the status effects from being applied that we didn't catch until after it went live, sadly.


I don't know if is a known issue, but currently it' impossible to sell things (evo runes, shards and so on) if the amount of item to sell is more than 200.
The application displays an error and you can only exit.

Hm... we've seen quite a few reports of being unable to sell things, but no indication about problems based on quantity. I'll pass along that additional info to our QA to see if that helps them isolate the issue. Thanks for the info.

[jeff-3007]

Don't you worry, there's key fixes to the matchmaking and point systems in the next patch, in conjunction with some solid motivation to earn a lot of Iron Coins.

Those of you with massive war chests of Iron Coins will also have a special one-time offer to get, too.



I've been kinda mulling over how to respond, because while I think we can all agree that the Strike Talismans are really powerful (perhaps disproportionately so with less availability of the other Brave New World talismans it was designed alongside), you really pass over a lot of key things that solidly counter them, and I want the player base as a community to find out and solve these problems for themselves instead of us as developers giving you all the ideas.

Ironically, a lot of the same things that counter the Gunner Corrupt Rescuer counter characters wielding Strike Talismans, so if the meta includes a lot of those things, then counters to those are even more important to have, and will help make short work of teams that use both... but even then, there are even more things that stop Strike users in their tracks on top of the counters it shares with handling a Rescuer's Titan Shield. You said yourself you feel it's better to go second to stop them, but I encourage you to look at the characters in the game and I think you'll find quite a few with basic skills that can help...

(Or be that guy with an Alliance General with Strike Talismans. I did not expect to have basically no power the entire fight, so even though I won, that really made me think, and I imagine that dude works just as well on offense as he was on defense.)



Yeeeeeah... the original campaign definitely wasn't designed with the kinds of stuff we ended up adding in mind. Thankfully, for most end game players the campaign is purely a matter of grinding, but it's something that'll be accounted for more in future features.



An unfortunate knock-on to fixing the issues with Immunity stopping the status effects from being applied that we didn't catch until after it went live, sadly.



Hm... we've seen quite a few reports of being unable to sell things, but no indication about problems based on quantity. I'll pass along that additional info to our QA to see if that helps them isolate the issue. Thanks for the info.

What would be considered a "massive war chest of iron coins"?

[Tritium]

just because you can deal with a char this doesn't mean he is okay...we can imagine a 500k damage dealer who can be countered by a block character and a reviver...so he is perfectly fine and reasonalby strong because we can deal with him/her?
i have to disagree on this one....

While your example is somewhat extreme haha, I do agree. I still believe GCR's power skill should be a bit more expensive, to the tune of costing 7 power. Nomad's skill is the same price, but isn't quite as useful ─ especially if not sharded up (GCR benefits from requiring no skill shards for hers). At this rate, I'm just glad GCR doesn't have a revive similar to Pharaoh Eddie's (full party revive), as I figure people would still find a way to defend her not being changed if that were the case. At least in Pharaoh's case, the only thing he has going for him is that team revive. And even then, he doesn't have titan shields to protect him and doesn't grant endure to the whole team. I feel bad for newer players who have to go up against GCRs without nearly as many of the counters that only veteran players have been able to amass. I imagine she would be quite the hurdle for them.

[Caretaker]

Thank you for the infos guys.

I do have a new question.. about the shield/passive ordering. As is now, what is casted first counts. Before I've got used to it I have been using (and lost to it quite some of the battles) combinations like troll/green bot + AoS. What happens is that AoS block passive prevails over shields and takes the full dmg. Lets say green harpy hits my low hp team where prior to it my green bot casted force shields on all and my AoS is still alive. Force shielding is ignored, 3 bars remain but AoS is dead for sucking up the dmg. Was surprised. Same happens with red troll passive shields (and I can't say if it goes for shell talis respectively since I haven't tested). So this ordering is easier to notice with force shields on.

Imo the logic would be that dmg is reduced/calculated per creature respectively to shields before it moves to AoS due to block.

Well I've learned the hard way not to pair those things for now.
So the question is will this order remain or it will be adressed sometime soon and the logic will prevail.

[gmac]

Don't you worry, there's key fixes to the matchmaking and point systems in the next patch, in conjunction with some solid motivation to earn a lot of Iron Coins.
Those of you with massive war chests of Iron Coins will also have a special one-time offer to get, too.


Hi Sparton, could you further elaborate on the new matchmaking system and incentives do use Iron Coins? (how much coins is needed to fill a massive war chest btw?) :)

About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually! :)

But my real point is this, can we have BNW already?!?
What's up with changing talismans that no longer drop? How on earth people who did not gather them way back, or are new to the game gonna get them? Also, Shell and Immunity are no longer available, for instance people that have come back to the game can't access them too. (probably some newer players also)

Not to mention not everybody is PvP maniac, I'd even say most people just like collecting Eddies and enjoy playing PvE, so, new content, PLEASE?!

Sorry about the little rant! Really admire you guys talking, and listening, to us!

Cheers
gmac

[Nicko]

About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually! :)

Cheers
gmac

I think it's great seeing new names at the top. But I don't think anyone there wants to feel like they got there because they played the style you described - and that's exactly what you have to do in the current environment. It's lose lose. Players lose because they're penalized to play and frustrated by the psychology of being pushed back any time they make progress if they don't pick there targets just right and watch their numbers. Developers lose because less Ironite is spent.

A win-win scenario is needed.

Defenses? I would argue they matter less. Only because I have not chatted with anyone who feels their Hold rates are worth a darn with a lot of the recent changes. Of course my sample is fairly small - but it includes some pretty smart posters here on the forums.

I think it also depends on your play style. When one would blow through lists, you'd get revenged more. You'd tend to Hold the less experienced players and the the more experienced players would Break your defense. Occasionally you'd Hold some of the bigger guns like you or Jofer - and that's always cool.

With the current style of cherry-picking names above you - combined with Strike Talismans everywhere - consensus amongst most I've talked to are the 30% Hold rates are a thing of the past. You'll be getting revenged by the more experienced players so they will break your defense more often. 15-25% is more realistic.

It's likely using a strategy like Hold (the player) described in another thread (cherry picking weaklings) gives a better defensive Hold rate. Those revenging you are more likely to be unsuccessful in their revenge because you targeted a weaker player to begin with.

But From my standpoint - cherry picking just a few names on each list - whether players above you or those too weak to have a good chance at a revenge - is a trend I can't wait to see disappear.

[mjmxiii]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol 🤢

New content!!

[Nicko]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol 🤢

New content!!

I agree with much of this. But as far as Sentinel Harpy - it's not a nerf - it's an adjustment. If you take an unsharded Harpy and do the math based on how much each skill shard increases damage, you'll see she was hitting for way harder than intended. The scaling was off.

[mjmxiii]

I agree with much of this. But as far as Sentinel Harpy - it's not a nerf - it's an adjustment. If you take an unsharded Harpy and do the math based on how much each skill shard increases damage, you'll see she was hitting for way harder than intended. The scaling was off.

Fair enough. Don't have one and have yet to lose to one in PvP. Just seems like too many of us have gotten use to cries for the Bat...thought she was another one

[Kardas]

Thanks again for all the answers Sparton. If you don't mind I have two more questions:

I've been testing some damage over time effects to find out about the skill effects, and I was wondering how they work in concert with accuracy buffs.
Take the Flame skill for instance (Warrior & Sentinel Pyro): The attack has an 65% chance (without Skill Shards) to inflict the Flame status, which has a 35% chance to Remove Beneficial Effects.
Would an accuracy increase here increase the probability of both the Flame status and buff removal happening, or just the Flame status? Does the same thing happen with Skill Shard application?

I was also testing Bleed, and there's a slight contradiction in the skill description: it say it deals magic damage but deals true damage. Or at least, it dealt true damage by my Rocket Dog.

[Tritium]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol ��

New content!!

Look through the thread again. Seems that the players debating for nerfs are actually in the minority now. AFAIK, it seems that only slauki and I feel that the GCR isn't a balanced toon. BTW, that's the only toon I feel isn't balanced in the current state of the game (Sentinel Harpy, as stated by even Sparton himself, is bugged currently and doing more damage than intended).

Don't confuse us players arguing for the changing of one toon to be in favor of nerfing overall ─ I far prefer buffs to nerfs, and am glad that this appears to be the current direction the game is heading in (one needs only look at the new update notes to see this). Also, I'm pretty certain that most people are okay with the GCR's current state because of the many counters that only just became available with the most recent update. There were a lot more people who were ambivalent towards that specific toon a couple months ago. Counters to something, however, do not make that thing intrinsically balanced ─ they merely provide new ways of dealing with it. Read slauki's example of this in the last page to understand what I mean.

[gmac]

Defenses? I would argue they matter less.


Hey Nicko!

This would probably hurt my style of play, but I think defenses should matter more actually (yeah, better AI needed)

Look what HomemLivre was able to accomplish... He was up there Saturday morning because of his defense and smart play during the week. Every new patch that guy just know what is going to work.

We all just copy each other defenses, this is what's wrong. His out of the box thinking and quick adaptation to the new rules were key to his results. And lot of hard work, you would not believe the amount of time and dedication he puts to figure out the best defense possible. It blows my mind. Glad it got rewarded. (Still he had to play a lot Saturday to get his results and probably with some ironite investment)

Attack theoretical weaker players and revenge holds is nothing new, I personally don't like it. Like to clear my list and move on. But had to adapt somehow, at least during the week.

And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?

[Tritium]

And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?

I've been thinking about the new players as well. At this point, I'd imagine they're highly disadvantaged compared to the veteran players. They don't have any shell or immunity talismans to rely on, they lack skill shards, and they lack iron coins to obtain the new talismans and other resources they need to compete. I foresee a problem here: they lack iron coins needed to be competitive, but they likely can't win many fights to even accumulate any large amount of iron coins. They'd probably be more inclined to quit rather than slog it through the tough times of being new to the game...That's not a good situation for the future of the game! :S

[mjmxiii]

Look through the thread again. Seems that the players debating for nerfs are actually in the minority now. AFAIK, it seems that only slauki and I feel that the GCR isn't a balanced toon. BTW, that's the only toon I feel isn't balanced in the current state of the game (Sentinel Harpy, as stated by even Sparton himself, is bugged currently and doing more damage than intended).

Don't confuse us players arguing for the changing of one toon to be in favor of nerfing overall ─ I far prefer buffs to nerfs, and am glad that this appears to be the current direction the game is heading in (one needs only look at the new update notes to see this). Also, I'm pretty certain that most people are okay with the GCR's current state because of the many counters that only just became available with the most recent update. There were a lot more people who were ambivalent towards that specific toon a couple months ago. Counters to something, however, do not make that thing intrinsically balanced ─ they merely provide new ways of dealing with it. Read slauki's example of this in the last page to understand what I mean.

Dude, I read the thread lol... tweaking one toon is where it all started lol... again, PvP opened up a pandoras box of tweaking... everyone was quick to voice opinions on the chars they thought were too strong after that... you gotta believe it's the major reason everything else is taking forever to be released... at least let's hope that's why!

Buffing toons is great but it's time to move on brotha... GCR is fine... I have one... I know how to beat her. Sometimes the AI plays it right and she's hard to beat.. Often she's the first to die. I know NF is really into trying to fix PvP up real nice n all. Working on the point's system and diddling chars... but it's time to move on to some new content... not trying to say anything else, just saying... let's move on already.

[Nicko]

Hey Nicko!

This would probably hurt my style of play, but I think defenses should matter more actually (yeah, better AI needed)

Look what HomemLivre was able to accomplish... He was up there Saturday morning because of his defense and smart play during the week. Every new patch that guy just know what is going to work.

We all just copy each other defenses, this is what's wrong. His out of the box thinking and quick adaptation to the new rules were key to his results. And lot of hard work, you would not believe the amount of time and dedication he puts to figure out the best defense possible. It blows my mind. Glad it got rewarded. (Still he had to play a lot Saturday to get his results and probably with some ironite investment)

Attack theoretical weaker players and revenge holds is nothing new, I personally don't like it. Like to clear my list and move on. But had to adapt somehow, at least during the week.

And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?

Hey GMAC!

Maybe you know his Hold rate - I don't. And I don't expect him to tell us and show his cards. But I can almost promise you it's dropped this week. And probably did as the week went on last week. Perhaps his strategy was similar to Holds - attacking weaker players - so hard to assess defensive success. Or perhaps it really did bamboozle a lot of players - certainly don't want to discount that possibility. Whatever the rate - it was achieved using two toons hitting harder than they were intended to. Smart - yes. Sustainable - no.

I don't think there is a defense out there that is routinely holding top 25 players with any success - meaning 30% - including HomemLivres.

Has yours fared better recently? If your're like most players I've talked to - the answer is no, it has not. So my point wasn't that it SHOULDN'T matter - it's that it DOESN'T matter as much - because in general they've fallen. Defense has an AI - and will almost always be at a Class disadvantage. Now there are Strike Talismans that can play on that Class advantage. Certainly they are used successfully on defense as well and offer some creative possibilities - but the more creative attacker will always hold the upper hand, and that shift seems to be increasing in the attackers favor.

Keep in mind this is all opinion. It would be pretty cool if a bunch of people piped in saying their defensive Hold rates are improving or consistently around 30% like they potentially were a few months ago.

[Zapathusara]

First things first:



But my real point is this, can we have BNW already?!?


I really, really hope for BNW in next major update. I thought at least we could already got little events, like pvp 300 or something like Halloween mini boss. Shaman could be done that way. They demand little coding (have been done before) and can made the waiting less frustrating. Now I just want BNW asap.



About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually! :)


My 5 cents in this subject:

I would do an adjustment which rewards holds.
Something like +20 points for every hold, and the loser gets the normal loss of points.


About the patch notes: can't wait for them. In fact for me the update can go live now.

[Zapathusara]

I don't think there is a defense out there that is routinely holding top 25 players with any success - meaning 30%

Keep in mind this is all opinion. It would be pretty cool if a bunch of people piped in saying their defensive Hold rates are improving or consistently around 30% like they potentially were a few months ago.

I'm not HomemLivre, but I got my cards. 25%+ is possible without been chasing low ranked dudes. Hell, I kept 30% last week after 34 losses at one night (I dismantled my defense cuz was on matchmaking bug, and felt unfair ro be at top). I lost 500 points (was 8th at the time the bug wear off) and ended top 100. No tricks. Just reading and thinking the game 10 hours per weekday.

If I am stranger to some, my name doesnt shows up in tops cuz I dont play weekends. And I happy with the finishes I get.

[Sparton_LOTB]

What would be considered a "massive war chest of iron coins"?

We don't have any specific amounts to release for that yet.


I feel bad for newer players who have to go up against GCRs without nearly as many of the counters that only veteran players have been able to amass. I imagine she would be quite the hurdle for them.

Well yeah, but that's why we want players to feel value from getting more and higher rarity characters. Some characters are better counters than others, or are able to counter more things than others. Some characters are an absolute terror when you're starting out than becomes relatively benign to answer as you get a large stable of characters, and other characters that are largely neglected and unused become important considerations in specific scenarios for even high-level play.


I do have a new question.. about the shield/passive ordering. As is now, what is casted first counts. Before I've got used to it I have been using (and lost to it quite some of the battles) combinations like troll/green bot + AoS. What happens is that AoS block passive prevails over shields and takes the full dmg. Lets say green harpy hits my low hp team where prior to it my green bot casted force shields on all and my AoS is still alive. Force shielding is ignored, 3 bars remain but AoS is dead for sucking up the dmg. Was surprised. Same happens with red troll passive shields (and I can't say if it goes for shell talis respectively since I haven't tested). So this ordering is easier to notice with force shields on.

Imo the logic would be that dmg is reduced/calculated per creature respectively to shields before it moves to AoS due to block.

Well I've learned the hard way not to pair those things for now.
So the question is will this order remain or it will be adressed sometime soon and the logic will prevail.

We as the designers on the team agree with what you think is most logical, that's for sure. In fact, fixes to that are fairly central to some of the stuff we're doing for the Brave New World, so various tasks and bug tickets are prioritized to be sorted out in the update where we release that feature.


Hi Sparton, could you further elaborate on the new matchmaking system and incentives do use Iron Coins? (how much coins is needed to fill a massive war chest btw?) :)

About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually! :)

The matchmaking itself isn't actually changing that much; I just noticed a possible edge case (reported by a forumer, but also something that caused me to not be attacked much last week...) and ensure that there was no possible scenario that could allow someone to not be attacked about as much as they're attacking except at the absolute start of the week. The main thing to solve the problem Nicko has noted (top players encouraged to engage less because realistic win rates means their participation is often a net loss on point climbing) is planned to be solved by reducing point losses for defense losses as a first step measure.

Regarding the coins, as I noted above, I don't want to go into too much details for that right now, but needless to say, if you have so many Iron Coins you don't think you could possibly spend them all... we'll have a one time deal for you to lighten your purse a bit.


But my real point is this, can we have BNW already?!?
What's up with changing talismans that no longer drop? How on earth people who did not gather them way back, or are new to the game gonna get them? Also, Shell and Immunity are no longer available, for instance people that have come back to the game can't access them too. (probably some newer players also)

Not to mention not everybody is PvP maniac, I'd even say most people just like collecting Eddies and enjoy playing PvE, so, new content, PLEASE?!

Sorry about the little rant! Really admire you guys talking, and listening, to us!

Trust me, most of the team agrees and wants to get it out now, and we still have people working on it in parallel with the update we're releasing mid this month, but I can't report anything more specific for the feature release window.


I've been testing some damage over time effects to find out about the skill effects, and I was wondering how they work in concert with accuracy buffs.
Take the Flame skill for instance (Warrior & Sentinel Pyro): The attack has an 65% chance (without Skill Shards) to inflict the Flame status, which has a 35% chance to Remove Beneficial Effects.
Would an accuracy increase here increase the probability of both the Flame status and buff removal happening, or just the Flame status? Does the same thing happen with Skill Shard application?

Accuracy Up increases the chance of something happening when a skill is doing a random chance check. As such, the chance to apply the Flame status effect is affected by Accuracy Up/Down (the skill is directly doing that), but the "on-tick" effect to remove beneficiel effects from the Flame status is not (the Flame status effect isn't a skill, it's a status effect doing something when it ticks down).

Basically, if it's a chance-based effect and it happens immediately when the skill is used, Accuracy Up or Down will affect it. If there's some effect that happens later (such as by a status effect), it's not.

One important note: talisman augments are not affected by accuracy. Talisman augments are their own thing that happen in conjunction with (but are separate from) using a skill, and Accuracy Up and Accuracy Down affect the chance-based effects of skills, specifically.


I was also testing Bleed, and there's a slight contradiction in the skill description: it say it deals magic damage but deals true damage. Or at least, it dealt true damage by my Rocket Dog.

Bah, that blasted Bleed status effect. I think it changed a lot during development, so it looks like we missed a case that still needs to be corrected that we missed when we tried to do our last consistency pass on that.

Intention is that it's true damage, so I've fixed that for the status effect description in the combat info popup. Should be good for the next release.


And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?


I've been thinking about the new players as well. At this point, I'd imagine they're highly disadvantaged compared to the veteran players. They don't have any shell or immunity talismans to rely on, they lack skill shards, and they lack iron coins to obtain the new talismans and other resources they need to compete. I foresee a problem here: they lack iron coins needed to be competitive, but they likely can't win many fights to even accumulate any large amount of iron coins. They'd probably be more inclined to quit rather than slog it through the tough times of being new to the game...That's not a good situation for the future of the game! :S

It'll always be the case that people who've been around longer and have built up a powerful set of tuned-up characters will have an advantage, but you need look no further than Jofer to see that not having everything fully sharded is something you can work around with smart, fast play (seriously, everyone keeps overestimating how sharded his characters were initially, and even now I think he's still pretty economical about it). Talismans are a similar deal; having access to all of the limited time ones (including Vampiric; I've seen some funny defenses with people using those) will give you more of an edge, but missing some of the important ones can be worked around if you can excel in other areas relative to your opponents. I don't expect someone who started last week to be making a run for Eternal, but someone who started a month or so ago? It'll be an uphill battle, but there's precedence.

Even when Brave New World comes out and getting all these talismans are more equally available for people to farm... people with stronger teams that can more consistently take out the hardest floors of the Brave New World bosses are still going to have an edge in getting the talismans quicker compared to people whose teams are not strong enough to do that yet (as a function of actual investment into their characters or as a function of not having the team synergies to cleanly handle those bosses).

[gmac]

Hey GMAC!

Maybe you know his Hold rate - I don't. And I don't expect him to tell us and show his cards. But I can almost promise you it's dropped this week. And probably did as the week went on last week. Perhaps his strategy was similar to Holds - attacking weaker players - so hard to assess defensive success. Or perhaps it really did bamboozle a lot of players - certainly don't want to discount that possibility. Whatever the rate - it was achieved using two toons hitting harder than they were intended to. Smart - yes. Sustainable - no.

I don't think there is a defense out there that is routinely holding top 25 players with any success - meaning 30% - including HomemLivres.

Has yours fared better recently? If your're like most players I've talked to - the answer is no, it has not. So my point wasn't that it SHOULDN'T matter - it's that it DOESN'T matter as much - because in general they've fallen. Defense has an AI - and will almost always be at a Class disadvantage. Now there are Strike Talismans that can play on that Class advantage. Certainly they are used successfully on defense as well and offer some creative possibilities - but the more creative attacker will always hold the upper hand, and that shift seems to be increasing in the attackers favor.

Keep in mind this is all opinion. It would be pretty cool if a bunch of people piped in saying their defensive Hold rates are improving or consistently around 30% like they potentially were a few months ago.

Yes, attackers will always have the upper hand, and hence why excellent defense should always be rewarded.

Who else saw and took the courage to shard two harpies? (I think I was the first to go with 2 AoS against Prioners back in the day, so I can relate to that lol)

All defenses are always going down, his too certainly. Does not matter, that guy will figure another great one. (btw wish Sag was here, current environment would be perfect for him).

I don't expect people to share defense %, too much, but mine is at 26%, going down of course, don't really care about it.

I hate testing my defense, AI so dumb makes me mad, just like to clear my lists as fast as I can. But I think it's good for the game to reward those who care about it. Maybe too also having a point system that does not allow people to get away too soon... maybe.

Anyways, whatever they throw at us I'll try to adapt and be there on Saturdays, at least one's I'm able to play.

Hope to hear from devs side, and other fellow forum members.

Cheers
gmac

[R1ck]

IMO attack win rates are increasing, which means defense hold rates are going down, that is the future for AI defenses, 0% holds. I don't play much on mobile but I think there are games where you can play online against another person, that should be the future of this game.

About talismans, new people deserve the possibility to get immunity and shell talismans, it would be good if they are available for the moment in LoL.

[Zapathusara]

About talismans, new people deserve the possibility to get immunity and shell talismans, it would be good if they are available for the moment in LoL.

Where I sign to get this?
Current loot of LoL is awful.

[HomemLivre]

Hey GMAC!

Maybe you know his Hold rate - I don't. And I don't expect him to tell us and show his cards. But I can almost promise you it's dropped this week. And probably did as the week went on last week. Perhaps his strategy was similar to Holds - attacking weaker players - so hard to assess defensive success. Or perhaps it really did bamboozle a lot of players - certainly don't want to discount that possibility. Whatever the rate - it was achieved using two toons hitting harder than they were intended to. Smart - yes. Sustainable - no.

I don't think there is a defense out there that is routinely holding top 25 players with any success - meaning 30% - including HomemLivres.

Has yours fared better recently? If your're like most players I've talked to - the answer is no, it has not. So my point wasn't that it SHOULDN'T matter - it's that it DOESN'T matter as much - because in general they've fallen. Defense has an AI - and will almost always be at a Class disadvantage. Now there are Strike Talismans that can play on that Class advantage. Certainly they are used successfully on defense as well and offer some creative possibilities - but the more creative attacker will always hold the upper hand, and that shift seems to be increasing in the attackers favor.

Keep in mind this is all opinion. It would be pretty cool if a bunch of people piped in saying their defensive Hold rates are improving or consistently around 30% like they potentially were a few months ago.

Well, need to tell you that my holds are 3% worst than the last week and to be honest I don't even care about it couse this point system sucks.
I upgraded the harpies long before devs confirm that the scaling was not normal and I really don't mind if his damage will go down, the main reason about this upgrade was becouse his passive and becouse shes not dumb as the SSD in the arena, simple as that.

I don't remmember when devs confirm about the scale damage was wrong but was really close to weekend or after it. Most of my points was earned in the attack and just to be clear, I didn't use any of the harpies in the attack! Oh!
That said I didn't get your point in here, are you saying that despite my effort, strategy and toons of testing hours I only achieve the eternal becouse I used a toon thats doing more damage that intended (Only on defense)?

Well, I can't say for other people, but my hold was always around 30% since the beta (just some weeks that I can't do it) and you know, as you said, this is not sustainable to my actual team and Im pretty confident about it. As it not was to all of the other teams that I used, just becouse the meta change and you need to change with it and thats exactly what Im always doing. So I hope that I will figure out how to maintain my holds around the 30% even after this and the other future patchs.

[Nicko]

I'm not HomemLivre, but I got my cards. 25%+ is possible without been chasing low ranked dudes. Hell, I kept 30% last week after 34 losses at one night (I dismantled my defense cuz was on matchmaking bug, and felt unfair ro be at top). I lost 500 points (was 8th at the time the bug wear off) and ended top 100. No tricks. Just reading and thinking the game 10 hours per weekday.

If I am stranger to some, my name doesnt shows up in tops cuz I dont play weekends. And I happy with the finishes I get.

We're you cherry picking only players above you while attacking?

If so kudos - that's a great percentage. Because assuming most of those players win 90%+ of their battles that's quite a feat.

If you were clearing lists it makes more sense because you'll appear on a much wider cross section of attack and revenge lists. And also have a greater percentage of attacks from lower ranked players.

Traditionally I've also been around 30%. That was clearing lists and getting attacked 100s of times. With my Cherry picking approach? Hovered around 25% and finished at 20%. I used the same defense GMAC is using now. The one where the damn Harpy always seemed to cast immunity when going second (idiot!)

She's been benched ;)

Again - it's always cool to see a "Think outside the box defense". And I think we're seeing more variety now in defenses which is extremely cool. But as tools like Strike Talismans and Newborns that remove buffs come along - they ultimately will give the edge more to the attacker than the defender. Because there's a brain behind those buttons. And this can only hurt defenses.

[Tritium]

It's funny how a lot of us thought that counter talis would make defenses be incredibly tough to beat, and yet, we've seen the exact opposite thing happen. Hold rates have never been lower, and that's likely due to counter talis along with some of the toons that were buffed (VE, NoL, Nomad, etc.). Counter talis greatly benefit the attacker, and not the defender (largely due to dumb AI). Sparton did say that the things are currently bugged and proccing at 45% rather than 35%, so maybe we'll notice the difference with the May update.


Regardless, I'm beginning to burn out. Can see why so many people are asking for new content asap. Even then, I figure that'll only keep us busy for so long before we need something else to be satisfied.

[druid138]

Sparton - you mention edge cases in attack-defense ratios. This has been a strange week for me. Last week, I was at 79 attacks and 78 defenses. This week, I've been doing the same pace of attacks, about 10-12 per day. But, I only have 9 defenses, and most of them were from very early in the week.

To be honest, I'd prefer to be attacked more, as the Coins are much more valuable than any dream I have of moving much higher in the rankings.

Is there something I can do to get away from the edge?

druid138-6195

[Tritium]

Whoa Nicko and druid, we all posted at the same time. Too awesome! xD

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton - you mention edge cases in attack-defense ratios. This has been a strange week for me. Last week, I was at 79 attacks and 78 defenses. This week, I've been doing the same pace of attacks, about 10-12 per day. But, I only have 9 defenses, and most of them were from very early in the week.

To be honest, I'd prefer to be attacked more, as the Coins are much more valuable than any dream I have of moving much higher in the rankings.

Is there something I can do to get away from the edge?

druid138-6195

Sadly, nothing directly. If you keep attacking, some people will revenge you and eventually the system will not think you're in an "early week ratio" state, but yeah, it's a bit of a blunder on my part to not foresee that some people might not get a sizable amount of defenses within the first day or two of their climb. The change I'm talking about specifically handles the case you're in.

[Nicko]

That said I didn't get your point in here, are you saying that despite my effort, strategy and toons of testing hours I only achieve the eternal becouse I used a toon thats doing more damage that intended (Only on defense)?



Yup ;)

C'mon Homem - you know I wouldn't say that. You've been here a long time - know the game really well - and worked hard.

I was saying I read all kinds of things about your defense and had no idea if it was bamboozling players left and right or was simply average. We had no numbers so it was all speculation. I also didn't know your attack strategy in this point environment - which could also affect your defense. I said it was smart you did something different assuming it was successful. But if it WAS bamboozling players - it won't be sustainable because of the upcoming adjustment. And you're right - the meta changes and we adapt. But it's my personal opinion it will be harder to maintain those 30% rates.

Never said I was right - that's why it's an opinion ;)

[Nicko]

Sparton - you mention edge cases in attack-defense ratios. This has been a strange week for me. Last week, I was at 79 attacks and 78 defenses. This week, I've been doing the same pace of attacks, about 10-12 per day. But, I only have 9 defenses, and most of them were from very early in the week.

To be honest, I'd prefer to be attacked more, as the Coins are much more valuable than any dream I have of moving much higher in the rankings.

Is there something I can do to get away from the edge?

druid138-6195

Same was happening to me. And then it hit.

You won't like it when it does ;)

I'd prefer it kept up because it's easy to get ahead when you're not getting attacked - and then when those attacks DO come you're hit 20 points per broken defense.

[Tritium]

Anyone else experiencing long server load times to the point of getting a PVTE1 error message?

[Jofer16]

Finally decided to play. Just encountered another infinite loop counter attack scenario with SSD, thought this shit was fixed?!? God damn this app sure delivers upon disappointment instead of new content and some sort of fucking stability. Amateurs. Someone earlier said the game went to shit when PvP was introduced. Well that's the sign of a true dev team, balancing PvP meta, if the team can't handle it, the game falls like a house of cards. This is why we get crazy impactful meta changes every few weeks. They are lost and we have to suffer. Straight up disappointed right now. Game is on a road to nowhere.

[Jofer16]

Yup ;)

C'mon Homem - you know I wouldn't say that. You've been here a long time - know the game really well - and worked hard.

I was saying I read all kinds of things about your defense and had no idea if it was bamboozling players left and right or was simply average. We had no numbers so it was all speculation. I also didn't know your attack strategy in this point environment - which could also affect your defense. I said it was smart you did something different assuming it was successful. But if it WAS bamboozling players - it won't be sustainable because of the upcoming adjustment. And you're right - the meta changes and we adapt. But it's my personal opinion it will be harder to maintain those 30% rates.

Never said I was right - that's why it's an opinion ;)

+1 for using the word bamboozling multiple times, never seen that shit LOL

[Nicko]

+1 for using the word bamboozling multiple times, never seen that shit LOL

Ok - have to admit - that made me laugh out loud!

[Monte47]

Alright, I was going to lurk and not comment. But, here's the thing... EVERYTHING I read complaining about fairness, it shouldn't be fair. It's a game, it should have characters you win that can kick ass. It should need you to use crazy strategy, or set ups. We all whine that a toon is stronger than ours, but, those toons can be beaten. My defense suuuucks, but that's my fault. Not the toons, or the devs, or the game.
If you are so butt hurt you spent money, so did I, but you knowhat? I spent it poorly, and didn't do what I should have. Regroup, and do better.

[CrazyHarry-2514]

I have noticed the following bugs while playing:

When my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner is equipped with Shell Talisman, during the time the shell passive is active, the damage dealt to the Corrupt Rescuer Gunner directly affects his health instead of consuming his Repair passive (Titan Shield) first.

Once the Corrupt Rescuer Gunner got his passive Repair disabled by The Prisoner, it won’t be cast back whether The Prisoner’s Passive Agression misses the Corrupt Rescuer or The Prisoner is killed.

My Newborn of Light Warrior, equipped with strike set, counter attacks my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner after the later casting Resucitate. It removes all beneficiary effects of my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner, mainly his Shields (Repair and Shelll passive) and Endure. The counter can trigger in both case when an allied get revived or not.

A Grim Reaper Eddie attacking with Slash more than once will remove the Void Shield from the defender. Starting from the 2nd attack the void shield will not reflect the attack. If the Grim Reaper Eddie’s Slash attack hit only once, the Void shield remains.

Are they going to be fixed with the mid-May tuning?

[Tritium]

Still experiencing the 3-tap skill bug that causes the game to freeze. Is there a fix in the works for this? This bug has lead to most of my "defeats". :| Just experienced it vs canyptian's VE.

[DickinsonMan]

Hey Sparton, for a long time I am bearing with a thought that maybe defensive draws should be rewarded with points (full, or at least half, you would be deciding anyway) to a defending team. Reason is simple: attacker didn't win and doesn't get points, also didn't lose so no points are lost, but defense did what it is supposed to do, it held the attack even though it didn't win. Keep up the good work \m/

I like this pretty much. It's a very good idea. I hope to see it soon!!!

[CanyptianFit]

Tritium, that was a result of a new 3-tap talisman setup I'm using. Helps with defense.

😜

Sorry about that.

[DaveMurray]

I really don't care about the tweaking to toons. My only OP toon(Sentinel Harpy) will be nerfed but it's fine.
What i really want is bug fixes and i hope the new update will bring a lot, sometimes you have to laugh with those bugs.
Today while attacking a top 50 player(i don't recall his/her name) i managed to have all my toons alive with full health and immune on them and the opponent was left with VE and Gimp both with very low health.
While i was ready to celebrate my victory AI had a different opinion. VE used his fury skill and all my toons got stunned for 2 rounds, their buffs dissapeared and they also got 3 marks on them, Gimp attacked and then after loosing my turn the stunned VE used fury skill again!! I lost the battle but i surely laughed a lot.
I know things like that don't happen often but it's always that ultra bugged Gimp in the team that causes the mess, at least before he was just OP.

[CanyptianFit]

Gotta love the SSD with the strike talismans.

Sparton, are they working as intended?

[HomemLivre]

Gotta love the SSD with the strike talismans.

Sparton, are they working as intended?

Strike talis procs 10% more than they should, It will be fixed in the next patch :P

[CanyptianFit]

What I mean by working as intended is that when on offense and you attack the SSD first and he retaliates, if the rest of your team is taunted by the SSD you basically lose control on that round as the rest of your team now attacks on auto (immediately executing the taunt).

Shouldn't the taunt affect next round not the current round?

That make sense?

[HomemLivre]

What I mean by working as intended is that when on offense and you attack the SSD first and he retaliates, if the rest of your team is taunted by the SSD you basically lose control on that round as the rest of your team now attacks on auto (immediately executing the taunt).

Shouldn't the taunt affect next round not the current round?

That make sense?

That happened to me, when I attack with my first char the SSD counter and taunted all my team then I loose control and they all attack on auto.
I don't know if is that your talking but thats what happened to me lol

[Sparton_LOTB]

When my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner is equipped with Shell Talisman, during the time the shell passive is active, the damage dealt to the Corrupt Rescuer Gunner directly affects his health instead of consuming his Repair passive (Titan Shield) first.

Once the Corrupt Rescuer Gunner got his passive Repair disabled by The Prisoner, it won’t be cast back whether The Prisoner’s Passive Agression misses the Corrupt Rescuer or The Prisoner is killed.

My Newborn of Light Warrior, equipped with strike set, counter attacks my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner after the later casting Resucitate. It removes all beneficiary effects of my Corrupt Rescuer Gunner, mainly his Shields (Repair and Shelll passive) and Endure. The counter can trigger in both case when an allied get revived or not.

A Grim Reaper Eddie attacking with Slash more than once will remove the Void Shield from the defender. Starting from the 2nd attack the void shield will not reflect the attack. If the Grim Reaper Eddie’s Slash attack hit only once, the Void shield remains.


For the first issue, if a character has more than one "shield", then only one functions. That does mean right now that if you have Shell on a Gunner Corrupt Rescuer, what you describe happens. We intend on changing that in a later update when we do fixes relating to shields.
The Repair not working if a Prisoner is around is also known, but I don't know when exactly we'll be able to do a fix for that.
Revenging/countering characters will no longer attack your Gunner Corrupt Rescuer after using Resuscitate in the next update.
For the Grim Reaper Eddie issue, there is a known issue where, for attacks that "reset" (like Slash), any reflected damage that would happen from the resets happen when the first strike hits, so the damage for the resets is happening, it's just happening too soon. Not sure about the Void Shield disappearing sometimes after attacking though; I've passed that to the team to investigate.



Still experiencing the 3-tap skill bug that causes the game to freeze. Is there a fix in the works for this? This bug has lead to most of my "defeats". :| Just experienced it vs canyptian's VE.

I would recommend clearing cache and redownloading all assets. The most recent update should have checks in place to make sure data downloaded from the server is not corrupted, but more improvements are happening in the next update if a redownload of game assets doesn't work for you now.


While i was ready to celebrate my victory AI had a different opinion. VE used his fury skill and all my toons got stunned for 2 rounds, their buffs dissapeared and they also got 3 marks on them, Gimp attacked and then after loosing my turn the stunned VE used fury skill again!! I lost the battle but i surely laughed a lot.

Yikes, that's a really strange one. I've passed that to our QA to investigate further.

What Eddie were you using?


What I mean by working as intended is that when on offense and you attack the SSD first and he retaliates, if the rest of your team is taunted by the SSD you basically lose control on that round as the rest of your team now attacks on auto (immediately executing the taunt).

Shouldn't the taunt affect next round not the current round?

The short answer is Taunt is working as it always has.

The long answer is Taunt makes it so a character will do a basic attack against the character which inflicted Taunt at the next chance that character gets. Normally that means at the start of your next turn, but if you get it in the middle of your turn, then you'll (potentially) be immediately basic attacking. Similarly, like most other debuffs, the duration ticks down at the end of your turn. That is why the Taunt will go away when your turn ends (like Taunt normally would), which is why you don't have a debuff that lasts longer than it would so it could affect you on another turn. Essentially, Counterstrike and Revenge don't change how debuffs work, they just makes attacks happen at a different time.

Also, while the Sentinel Soulless Demon has the highest AoE taunt chance in the game, the odds of taunting the rest of a team when countering is still fairly low (assuming 1 of 4 team members have gone, it's a roughly 1 in 6 chance (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3+trials+with+a+55%25+chance+of+success) of taunting all of the remaining 3).

[Tritium]

Tritium, that was a result of a new 3-tap talisman setup I'm using. Helps with defense.

��

Sorry about that.

Haha, man! New talisman effect: 75% chance to make the game freeze and force the attacker to quit and "lose" the fight. :p


What I mean by working as intended is that when on offense and you attack the SSD first and he retaliates, if the rest of your team is taunted by the SSD you basically lose control on that round as the rest of your team now attacks on auto (immediately executing the taunt).

Shouldn't the taunt affect next round not the current round?

That make sense?


That happened to me, when I attack with my first char the SSD counter and taunted all my team then I loose control and they all attack on auto.
I don't know if is that your talking but thats what happened to me lol

I've experienced what you guys are talking about here. Because of that annoying effect, I generally save the SSD for last or second to last if he's got a pair of strike talis on. Or, I'll wait to hit him after my other toons have already attacked another enemy toon. Generally, my warrior NoL will disarm that annoying effect after the first attack so that I can then safely dispose of the enemy SSD (warrior NoL is like my very own clutch QB who wins the SB in the last half after being down by over 20 pts! ;)).

[Tritium]

I would recommend clearing cache and redownloading all assets. The most recent update should have checks in place to make sure data downloaded from the server is not corrupted, but more improvements are happening in the next update if a redownload of game assets doesn't work for you now.

The most recent update was supposed to fix this bug? Didn't know that. How might I go about what you suggested to do? Would it be going to the "App Info" screen for LOTB (after going into App settings) and just choosing to "clear cache", or should I "clear data" as well?

[Jofer16]

Ok - have to admit - that made me laugh out loud!

Yep, laughed my ass off, thanks for that one. I love fun words, gonna have to start using it.. "You've been bamboozled!!" :)

[Tritium]

Have there been server issues as of late? Today alone, I've "lost" 3 fights due to the game timing out after I win the PVP fight. Also experiencing long load times in PVE.

[HomemLivre]

Have there been server issues as of late? Today alone, I've "lost" 3 fights due to the game timing out after I win the PVP fight. Also experiencing long load times in PVE.

Same happened to me in PvE today, long loads and some crashes.

[Ringe666-7406]

Hey Sparton, few more bugs, if you guys are not familiar already: one occured today, against magus CR, similar to above, my SSD was invisible, GR' Slash did no damage to him, than CR froze him with power move. Also, on CD's power move, Mummy's BotD and idk what more, circles often won't appear at all. Now, on CD it's not a big deal, but on Mummy it really is. Thanks in advance \m/

Edit: another one-after hitting an enemy with nomad, it's usually my CD's turn, and the target circle just goes to other enemy before I realise and play move, often leading into not killing enemy char 'cause they are low on HP after Nomad's punch.

[Sparton_LOTB]

The most recent update was supposed to fix this bug? Didn't know that. How might I go about what you suggested to do? Would it be going to the "App Info" screen for LOTB (after going into App settings) and just choosing to "clear cache", or should I "clear data" as well?

I checked with our QA, and they recommend if you want to be super safe to both clear cache and clear data, then uninstall and reinstall from the store (just to be super sure you don't have any bad data still on your device and that whatever flavour of Android you're running isn't doing something funky).


Have there been server issues as of late? Today alone, I've "lost" 3 fights due to the game timing out after I win the PVP fight. Also experiencing long load times in PVE.

Not that I know of, but I've pinged our progammers to triple check and see if there's something that has been done recently which could be the cause of that.

[Ringe666-7406]

Same happened to me in PvE today, long loads and some crashes.

+1. 4 crashes/freezes on games that I won or would win, and all that now when my def finally made a big leap. Only had three real loses so far on attack.

[HomemLivre]

+1. 4 crashes/freezes on games that I won or would win, and all that now when my def finally made a big leap. Only had three real loses so far on attack.

This bugs are so anoying that actually Im just playing for the Irons Coins...

[Tritium]

This bugs are so anoying that actually Im just playing for the Irons Coins...

It's hard to even do just that now. :p

[Tritium]

I checked with our QA, and they recommend if you want to be super safe to both clear cache and clear data, then uninstall and reinstall from the store (just to be super sure you don't have any bad data still on your device and that whatever flavour of Android you're running isn't doing something funky).



Not that I know of, but I've pinged our progammers to triple check and see if there's something that has been done recently which could be the cause of that.

Thanks Sparton! You've been helpful as always. :)

[HomemLivre]

It's hard to even do just that now. :p

Hahahaha, Its true!
I already lost a few battles due to this problemas but I just don't care anymore about it, the coins that I can get is just what I want lol

[CanyptianFit]

We want our War Chest of irons coins...whatever amount that may be.

[mjmxiii]

Finally decided to play. Just encountered another infinite loop counter attack scenario with SSD, thought this shit was fixed?!? God damn this app sure delivers upon disappointment instead of new content and some sort of fucking stability. Amateurs. Someone earlier said the game went to shit when PvP was introduced. Well that's the sign of a true dev team, balancing PvP meta, if the team can't handle it, the game falls like a house of cards. This is why we get crazy impactful meta changes every few weeks. They are lost and we have to suffer. Straight up disappointed right now. Game is on a road to nowhere.

^^THIS^^

This is why I try not to post much at the moment... disappointed with the game too and dislike my rant-centric posts, but... it seems like it just gets worse with every meta change, every update brings new issues to deal with. I don't know for sure if it's the reason for all these bugs, but I remember a time with less meta changes and a much more stable environment.... it was before PvP and all these chars started getting nerfed/buffed for "fairness"...

Hey Sparton, will there ever be a point where NF halts the meta changes and says, "this is it, this is your PvP environment"? Some chars as supposed to be better, that's why there are native 5*, 3* and 1* chars. Deal with it, beat them or die trying.

PvP balancing is breaking the game and needs to be capped already! Game needs to move forward before it becomes even more stagnant than it already is. It's dying on the vine dude! I know I won't be getting an answer and that some are ok with drinking stale water and looking forward to a hope that no new bugs come with future updates... but for how much longer man?

Alright... done... I'll try to read more, type less for a while.

[Bradata]

^^THIS^^

This is why I try not to post much at the moment... disappointed with the game too and dislike my rant-centric posts, but... it seems like it just gets worse with every meta change, every update brings new issues to deal with. I don't know for sure if it's the reason for all these bugs, but I remember a time with less meta changes and a much more stable environment.... it was before PvP and all these chars started getting nerfed/buffed for "fairness"...

Hey Sparton, will there ever be a point where NF halts the meta changes and says, "this is it, this is your PvP environment"? Some chars as supposed to be better, that's why there are native 5*, 3* and 1* chars. Deal with it, beat them or die trying.

PvP balancing is breaking the game and needs to be capped already! Game needs to move forward before it becomes even more stagnant than it already is. It's dying on the vine dude! I know I won't be getting an answer and that some are ok with drinking stale water and looking forward to a hope that no new bugs come with future updates... but for how much longer man?

Alright... done... I'll try to read more, type less for a while.


Finally decided to play. Just encountered another infinite loop counter attack scenario with SSD, thought this shit was fixed?!? God damn this app sure delivers upon disappointment instead of new content and some sort of fucking stability. Amateurs. Someone earlier said the game went to shit when PvP was introduced. Well that's the sign of a true dev team, balancing PvP meta, if the team can't handle it, the game falls like a house of cards. This is why we get crazy impactful meta changes every few weeks. They are lost and we have to suffer. Straight up disappointed right now. Game is on a road to nowhere.

Couldn't express my feelings better than you guys! Exactly what I'm feeling about the game now. Since I started playing PVP I never was lower than the first 25 on the top but lately I don't even care anymore. Sometimes I have more than 10 SoW and just don't want to spend them fighting. Got most of the good toons to play and stay on top but don't have the motivation to do it, even the iron coins don't attract me anymore. Many times I have a toon sharded the "fairness" kicks in and it gets nerfed...
Had enough with all the bugs, "fairness" and the stupid point system, oh and don't forget the dummy AI!

[Coletrain]

Sparton, question about the Warrior Undead Rescuer and the change to the guide skill. Is the heal of up to 3 random allies in addition to, or in place of, it's current chance to self heal? And what are the percent chances that it heals 1,2, or 3 allies? As a character with the block passive any healing of self or allies could enhance its survivability; would enjoy using him more often!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Hey Sparton, few more bugs, if you guys are not familiar already: one occured today, against magus CR, similar to above, my SSD was invisible, GR' Slash did no damage to him, than CR froze him with power move. Also, on CD's power move, Mummy's BotD and idk what more, circles often won't appear at all. Now, on CD it's not a big deal, but on Mummy it really is. Thanks in advance \m/

Edit: another one-after hitting an enemy with nomad, it's usually my CD's turn, and the target circle just goes to other enemy before I realise and play move, often leading into not killing enemy char 'cause they are low on HP after Nomad's punch.

Odd stuff. I'll pass those along to the team as well.


Hey Sparton, will there ever be a point where NF halts the meta changes and says, "this is it, this is your PvP environment"? Some chars as supposed to be better, that's why there are native 5*, 3* and 1* chars. Deal with it, beat them or die trying.

PvP balancing is breaking the game and needs to be capped already! Game needs to move forward before it becomes even more stagnant than it already is. It's dying on the vine dude! I know I won't be getting an answer and that some are ok with drinking stale water and looking forward to a hope that no new bugs come with future updates... but for how much longer man?

The reality of the situation is the game will continue to evolve and expand over time, one way or another. More characters will be added, more talismans will be added as well (or other kinds of equipment and character improvements), new features will arrive that have different kinds of characters which are more or less viable, etc. As far as tuning existing characters, that's more a question for Kaz than me... I imagine we'd do less of that over time, but we don't want a stale, solved PVP environment, because then people would definitely lose interest. It's easy to say that it's "dying on the vine" if it's capturing less of your interest, but that doesn't hold out in terms of actual metrics for total amount of people competing in PVP from week to week, or average amount of battles done in PVP in a given week, or variety of characters used in PVP. The only reduction we've seen is a slight reduction in total battles across the user base on reset day in the last few weeks (but there's still a sizable spike of activity); everything else is going up, and we expect that it will only improve as we bring more players to the game and continue to improve and add to it.

We're still committed to improving the game by fixing bugs and so forth as well (with some things already in the preliminary tuning notes), but it's worth keeping in mind that even fixing certain bugs will cause meta shifts (such as when you can reduce damage from a Damage Reduction Shield while also having a Titan Shield, or when Angel of Fear triggers the reset consistently and not multiple times in one battle).


Sparton, question about the Warrior Undead Rescuer and the change to the guide skill. Is the heal of up to 3 random allies in addition to, or in place of, it's current chance to self heal? And what are the percent chances that it heals 1,2, or 3 allies? As a character with the block passive any healing of self or allies could enhance its survivability; would enjoy using him more often!

The healing is now done to up to 3 random allies (in place of doing it to only himself... but he could randomly pick himself for the heals). The character does three attempts at 35% chance to heal (so anywhere from 0 to 3 heals could happen, with each heal picking a random target). So you could heal 3 other allies for 15% of Undead Rescuer's max HP each, or himself and one other ally, or no one gets a heal, or even one single ally three times!

[Tritium]

I can understand why Jofer, mjmxiii, and Bradata all feel that way. I've begun to burn out a bit as well with the game. I figure it's mostly due to the fact that we haven't had some new content in a while, and sacrifice only entertained us for so long before we blew through our stockpiles of souls. We're all humans here, and we can't help but get bored in between content updates when we're essentially doing the same things over and over again in the game. The next content update will sate our appetites for a while, and then we'll become uneasy again waiting for the next big thing. No worries though, we've all been rather patient up until now. It's just human nature that can't be helped. :p (This has all made me realize how difficult it must be to run a business and try to please all of your customers!).

[Tritium]

The healing is now done to up to 3 random allies (in place of doing it to only himself... but he could randomly pick himself for the heals). The character does three attempts at 35% chance to heal (so anywhere from 0 to 3 heals could happen, with each heal picking a random target). So you could heal 3 other allies for 15% of Undead Rescuer's max HP each, or himself and one other ally, or no one gets a heal, or even one single ally three times!

To clarify, warrior UR will no longer have his guaranteed self heal, right? He'll have a chance to heal himself along with 2 allies, but no longer a 100% chance of healing himself (when his heal procs)? Or will he have a 100% chance of healing himself, and then 3 tries to heal other allies and himself again on top of it? Hope this isn't too confusing haha.

[Monte47]

1. I appreciate that the developers are so active in the community. Hell, even seeing Spartan on my defense list was fun, as it shows they aren't just playing the back end to see what needs improved. I think they really are doing the best they can, so maybe don't spend money until bugs are ironed out? Because, let's be honest the game is worth sticking with.

2. I can only speak for myself, and maybe my SO, as he plays as well; but, it's almost like those of us who have been here the longest are continually punished with character nerfs to make it easier to win in PVP. I always wanted a Corrupt General, but he is so easy to kill now, I'd probably sacrifice him. We've wasted skill shards, which, once you've reached level 100, aren't that easy to get, on characters that now weren't worth it. Hell, the Eddie's are the easiest to kill in the arena.

Blah blah blah, I know, but maybe stop trying to balance the characters and just get the bugs worked out. Characters you can adapt offense for. Even the toughest ones.

All that said, I do love the game. Cheers.
Eskiggalu

[Coletrain]

To clarify, warrior UR will no longer have his guaranteed self heal, right? He'll have a chance to heal himself along with 2 allies, but no longer a 100% chance of healing himself (when his heal procs)? Or will he have a 100% chance of healing himself, and then 3 tries to heal other allies and himself again on top of it? Hope this isn't too confusing haha.

Right now it's a 35% chance to heal self for 15% of max hp and it will be changing to what sparton described. It was never 100% chance to heal self (that would be great!), but the new change should make him a bit more usable.

Now that I think about it, I think it would be great to make his self heal guaranteed and ADD this new heal, but perhaps that is too powerful.

[Sparton_LOTB]

To clarify, warrior UR will no longer have his guaranteed self heal, right? He'll have a chance to heal himself along with 2 allies, but no longer a 100% chance of healing himself (when his heal procs)? Or will he have a 100% chance of healing himself, and then 3 tries to heal other allies and himself again on top of it? Hope this isn't too confusing haha.

He doesn't have a guaranteed heal for himself, yes.

He also isn't necessarily going to heal himself along with two allies; it's a random character on his team that's chosen 3 times. He could pick himself to heal when picking random characters, and when picking random allies to heal, he could pick the same character multiple times.

Just imagine there was a skill which had a chance of healing a random ally. He does that 3 times now (in addition to the damaging and stealing the skill normally does).


Now that I think about it, I think it would be great to make his self heal guaranteed and ADD this new heal, but perhaps that is too powerful.

Yeeeeaaah... I think we've already seen how terrifying the guarantee self heal is with the Nomad, I don't think we want too many other guys with guaranteed heals for themselves on basic attacks. We did want to make the heal more impactful/likely to trigger, though, which is why we settled on healing random allies and making it so he has a chance to do it multiple times instead of once.

[Tritium]

Thanks for the clarification, Sparton. Makes sense. So he no longer will automatically heal himself when his heal procs, but instead, will act as a support toon who heals his allies to help himself last slightly longer. Interesting change. Will his assassin brother act the same way too?

[Silentknight]

1. I appreciate that the developers are so active in the community. Hell, even seeing Spartan on my defense list was fun, as it shows they aren't just playing the back end to see what needs improved. I think they really are doing the best they can, so maybe don't spend money until bugs are ironed out? Because, let's be honest the game is worth sticking with.

2. I can only speak for myself, and maybe my SO, as he plays as well; but, it's almost like those of us who have been here the longest are continually punished with character nerfs to make it easier to win in PVP. I always wanted a Corrupt General, but he is so easy to kill now, I'd probably sacrifice him. We've wasted skill shards, which, once you've reached level 100, aren't that easy to get, on characters that now weren't worth it. Hell, the Eddie's are the easiest to kill in the arena.

Blah blah blah, I know, but maybe stop trying to balance the characters and just get the bugs worked out. Characters you can adapt offense for. Even the toughest ones.

All that said, I do love the game. Cheers.
Eskiggalu

Ditto! CG is collecting dust! Thinking bout letting Prisoner join him! But the bugs are killing it for me! Game freezes counting as loses hurts big time! Especially when they revenge holds! So glad I tossed FallenAngels ass! Trit's right too...boredom, thus the CanyptianFit comments. Gotta stay entertained! But new content will be the same as Sacrifice...short-lived! Nothing against Sacrifice, it's great!

[Sparton_LOTB]

Thanks for the clarification, Sparton. Makes sense. So he no longer will automatically heal himself when his heal procs, but instead, will act as a support toon who heals his allies to help himself last slightly longer. Interesting change. Will his assassin brother act the same way too?

Well, the effect is "up to 3 allies", but that technically includes himself.

The Assassin chap's Return skill is also changing in the same manner, yes.

[Ringe666-7406]

Thanks for the clarification, Sparton. Makes sense. So he no longer will automatically heal himself when his heal procs, but instead, will act as a support toon who heals his allies to help himself last slightly longer. Interesting change. Will his assassin brother act the same way too?

Yep, he is on the list too, two spots above Warrior one ;)

[Tritium]

Yep, he is on the list too, two spots above Warrior one ;)

I'm eager to see whether or not these changes will bring the buzz lightyear family back into PVP teams. Hell, you barely even see the green brother nowadays. Purple and red are looking a lot more intriguing now...;)

[Jofer16]

I can understand why Jofer, mjmxiii, and Bradata all feel that way. I've begun to burn out a bit as well with the game. I figure it's mostly due to the fact that we haven't had some new content in a while, and sacrifice only entertained us for so long before we blew through our stockpiles of souls. We're all humans here, and we can't help but get bored in between content updates when we're essentially doing the same things over and over again in the game. The next content update will sate our appetites for a while, and then we'll become uneasy again waiting for the next big thing. No worries though, we've all been rather patient up until now. It's just human nature that can't be helped. :p (This has all made me realize how difficult it must be to run a business and try to please all of your customers!).

Yeah I hate having to be all negative and pissy sometimes, i do love the game, just gets so maddening and have to let out some frustration. The downside of being passionate about something :) Was just excited to sit down and play and get hit with the bug bat almost instantly.

[Ringe666-7406]

I'm eager to see whether or not these changes will bring the buzz lightyear family back into PVP teams. Hell, you barely even see the green brother nowadays. Purple and red are looking a lot more intriguing now...;)

At good ol' times I used AoS for that same passive. Could wipe whole Prisoner teams with him only. So, I am also eager to see if this one will deserve its place in the team. Slots are dragging him down (I loved using invisibility on AoS), but no class advantage over him by warrior high-damage dealers (among other things) might be his leverage. We'll see soon enough luckily :D

[Silentknight]

Yeah I hate having to be all negative and pissy sometimes, i do love the game, just gets so maddening and have to let out some frustration. The downside of being passionate about something :) Was just excited to sit down and play and get hit with the bug bat almost instantly.

Same here!

[Jofer16]

Have there been server issues as of late? Today alone, I've "lost" 3 fights due to the game timing out after I win the PVP fight. Also experiencing long load times in PVE.

I just got a server error crash on my 2nd PvE battle after reset so it's possible. Sorry JJJ, think the trooper points were lost in the crash :(

[Tritium]

Ditto! CG is collecting dust! Thinking bout letting Prisoner join him! But the bugs are killing it for me! Game freezes counting as loses hurts big time! Especially when they revenge holds! So glad I tossed FallenAngels ass! Trit's right too...boredom, thus the CanyptianFit comments. Gotta stay entertained! But new content will be the same as Sacrifice...short-lived! Nothing against Sacrifice, it's great!

Oh man, people who revenge holds are something else lol. Honestly, I don't even know why that's an option for us. Holds shouldn't be revengeable ─ they already gave you a positive point increase! Revenging holds is like biting the hand that feeds you. Messed up.


Edit: Can we create a petition to make holds non-revengeable? :p

Edit2: Wow, just had this happen to me after making this post. Gotta love it! Thank you EddieKai666! >.> People who lack integrity these days...

[Aristo4]

Oh man, people who revenge holds are something else lol. Honestly, I don't even know why that's an option for us. Holds shouldn't be revengeable ─ they already gave you a positive point increase! Revenging holds is like biting the hand that feeds you. Messed up.


Edit: Can we create a petition to make holds non-revengeable? :p

Edit2: Wow, just had this happen to me after making this post. Gotta love it! Thank you EddieKai666! >.> People who lack integrity these days...

I'd make all revenges non-revengable, or add other limits or whatever dunno.Now the system just allows the same back and forth (like between us) all the time....and the one who starts it always has 3 matches vs 2....usually you :p

[Tritium]

I'd make all revenges non-revengable, or add other limits or whatever dunno.Now the system just allows the same back and forth (like between us) all the time....and the one who starts it always has 3 matches vs 2....usually you :p

Haha man, I'll only revenge you if you have more points than me or are near enough in points. No worries there.

Just timed out when the "Victory!" screen appeared when winning a revenge against this EddieKai guy. That's rich. He's now on top 4 battles due to bugs. Legacy of Bugs strikes again! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, it's ridiculous how the attacker gets punished due to server issues. That's not cool at all. At least make them count as a draw so we aren't punished and the defender isn't rewarded for something neither of us can control.

[Ezz]

VE, AOF, Nomad, Prisoner.
Had this team on defense earlier this week and changed it because I heard complaints that when people battled me the AOF extra turns were triggering twice. My defense hold percentage has plummeted from 37% to 26% in 2 days.
A little bit ago I battled a team with this same defense. Sure enough AOF extra turn triggered twice and I lost the match costing me a 24 game winning streak.
Devs please look into this combination of characters and address.
Players - your call if u choose to continue with this defense setup - just know that your defense is exploiting a flaw and you are benefitting from some illegitimate victories.

[surfingwithdje]

VE, AOF, Nomad, Prisoner.
Had this team on defense earlier this week and changed it because I heard complaints that when people battled me the AOF extra turns were triggering twice. My defense hold percentage has plummeted from 37% to 26% in 2 days.
A little bit ago I battled a team with this same defense. Sure enough AOF extra turn triggered twice and I lost the match costing me a 24 game winning streak.
Devs please look into this combination of characters and address.
Players - your call if u choose to continue with this defense setup - just know that your defense is exploiting a flaw and you are benefitting from some illegitimate victories.
Nice to see that you are a very fair player and you don't want to exploit a bug on defense !
I don't use this character combo in my defense team but sometimes (maybe for 5-6 battles) in attack and it happened 2 or 3 times for me... The extra turn was triggering before the first character was down...

[Ian]

VE, AOF, Nomad, Prisoner.
Had this team on defense earlier this week and changed it because I heard complaints that when people battled me the AOF extra turns were triggering twice. My defense hold percentage has plummeted from 37% to 26% in 2 days.
A little bit ago I battled a team with this same defense. Sure enough AOF extra turn triggered twice and I lost the match costing me a 24 game winning streak.
Devs please look into this combination of characters and address.
Players - your call if u choose to continue with this defense setup - just know that your defense is exploiting a flaw and you are benefitting from some illegitimate victories.

Good sportsmanship EZZ. I dont have VE or Prisoner so no danger of me doing i, BUT If its a known bug and is considered an exploit, Devs should say so, and any others who continue to exploit this for their teams should have points, rewards and iron coins stripped for the week they use it.

[OdoyleRules]

Wow. Just fix the bugs, leave the Eddies and toons alone. Go play 3rd grade flag football if you want the participation trophy. There is just too much time spent on whining to the developers about this guy is OP and that guy is OP. How about we focus on the few bugs and release some new material.

[Ian]

Wow. Just fix the bugs, leave the Eddies and toons alone. Go play 3rd grade flag football if you want the participation trophy. There is just too much time spent on whining to the developers about this guy is OP and that guy is OP. How about we focus on the few bugs and release some new material.

If you were replying to me, I was referring specifically to a bug. Maybe 3rd grade reading class is the thing for you?

[OdoyleRules]

If you were replying to me, I was referring specifically to a bug. Maybe 3rd grade reading class is the thing for you?

Nope. Just generalizing the past few weeks of complaining about this and that. Don't make it all about you, if you want to get personal. <see your reply>

[Ian]

Nope. Just generalizing the past few weeks of complaining about this and that. Don't make it all about you, if you want to get personal. <see your reply>

Then you have my apologies - sorry

[OdoyleRules]

Then you have my apologies - sorry

Not a problem, good sir.

[Tritium]

It's more than possible to express one's opinion without attacking others and generalizing a whole group of people (we've only need to look at the most recent U.S. elections to see what problems that creates ─ LOL!). We should stick to that here on the forums if we want to keep a civil debate going. Name calling is unnecessary. "Everyone who complains is X". "Everyone who thinks OP toon <insert here> is fine is X". We've all got opinions. Do your best to express them kindly. Otherwise, we'll be like the adult version of kids throwing food at each other in the cafeteria.

[Coletrain]

It's more than possible to express one's opinion without attacking others and generalizing a whole group of people (we've only need to look at the most recent U.S. elections to see what problems that creates ─ LOL!). We should stick to that here on the forums if we want to keep a civil debate going. Name calling is unnecessary. "Everyone who complains is X". "Everyone who thinks OP toon <insert here> is fine is X". We've all got opinions. Do your best to express them kindly. Otherwise, we'll be like the adult version of kids throwing food at each other in the cafeteria.

If there's ever a silly/April fools day release, I expect to see a limited edition "Food Fight Eddie".

[Tritium]

If there's ever a silly/April fools day release, I expect to see a limited edition "Food Fight Eddie".

Haha! If that somehow ever comes to fruition, I'll nickname it Coletrain Eddie after your suggestion. 😜

[Metallicamilo]

Finally some good updates to pharaoh eddie since entomb doesn't do anything. however they should think about improving AI's use of Mend skill more often. it's the only AoE attack on him and can grant heal shield to allies, which is fair enough with nowadays Arena status. hope they can do smthing about it.

[Tritium]

Arena is pretty buggy for me right now. Experiencing tons of APMA errors.

[Chaosego888]

Arena is pretty buggy for me right now. Experiencing tons of APMA errors.Same here for the past few days, every time I get motivated to play, get demotivated after a few battles. I am experiencing the same problems with loading issues that you have mentioned a few times also. Let me know when you make that petition for holds not being revengeable, I will definitely sign it, can't stand that dirty garbage. I also agree with Aristo about making revenges unrevengeable.

[Silentknight]

Same here for the past few days, every time I get motivated to play, get demotivated after a few battles. I am experiencing the same problems with loading issues that you have mentioned a few times also. Let me know when you make that petition for holds not being revengeable, I will definitely sign it, can't stand that dirty garbage. I also agree with Aristo about making revenges unrevengeable.
Was gunna start a thread...Those That Revenge Holds! But seeing as how people can edit it themselves...what's the point. Kinda hard to tell sometimes cuz I'll get a hold then a defeat & that same person is on my attack list. So if u revenge the win & clear ur list it can look like u revenged a hold. But when u get 3 attacks in 5 min...pretty obvious! C'mon Gmac & Kamuz, kick FA's ass!

[Tritium]

Same here for the past few days, every time I get motivated to play, get demotivated after a few battles. I am experiencing the same problems with loading issues that you have mentioned a few times also. Let me know when you make that petition for holds not being revengeable, I will definitely sign it, can't stand that dirty garbage. I also agree with Aristo about making revenges unrevengeable.

With your support, I decided to make the poll! It can be found in the PVP Discussion area of the forums. Hopefully the outcome will give the devs an idea of where us players stand on these game features.

[Sparton_LOTB]

VE, AOF, Nomad, Prisoner.
Had this team on defense earlier this week and changed it because I heard complaints that when people battled me the AOF extra turns were triggering twice. My defense hold percentage has plummeted from 37% to 26% in 2 days.
A little bit ago I battled a team with this same defense. Sure enough AOF extra turn triggered twice and I lost the match costing me a 24 game winning streak.
Devs please look into this combination of characters and address.

Thanks for the info. I've passed it along to the team, and I'll see if we can narrow something down to help find a fix.

[konstifik]

Sparton, a question on Accuracy, since it was discussed in this thread.

Is the effect additive/subtractive or is it multiplied? If a skill has 40 % to trigger an effect and Accuracy Up is active (25 % higher chance for effects to trigger), will the total chance be 40 % + 25 % = 65 % or 40 % x 1,25 = 50 %?

[hadesdrunk]

Arena is pretty buggy for me right now. Experiencing tons of APMA errors.

same here in the arena....i sent email to the support team and nothing.....

[DaveMurray]

Yikes, that's a really strange one. I've passed that to our QA to investigate further.
What Eddie were you using?
I am using a GRE. A shot taken from the same team yesterday, i forgot the player's name again(yes i am an idiot!).
Pyro soldier used Defend and i had all my buffs removed(immunity included) and marks added. Funny thing is that after that ss i made a perfect attack and my marks explode..
2930



With your support, I decided to make the poll! It can be found in the PVP Discussion area of the forums. Hopefully the outcome will give the devs an idea of where us players stand on these game features.
I know i revenged you after a hold and i am sorry but most of the times i revenge because i want to test defences so that i can learn and get better. Unfortunately i get the same people on my attack lists.
Regarding your poll though i would suggest to add the option for revenge to be removed completely.

[hold]

Pyro soldier used Defend and i had all my buffs removed(immunity included) and marks added.

The buff removal is odd but are you sre he used Defend? The team should have buffs up. It seems like he is equipped with Death Talismans - they would explain the marks.

I just saw that the Death mark skill is not shown on him ... really strange one ...

[DaveMurray]

The buff removal is odd but are you sre he used Defend? The team should have buffs up. It seems like he is equipped with Death Talismans - they would explain the marks.

I just saw that the Death mark skill is not shown on him ... really strange one ...

I wasn't attacked and the move was from the Defend skill.

[hold]

I wasn't attacked and the move was from the Defend skill.

Now I get it ... your Pyro did this to you! Yeah - that is a new toon ... it's called Traitor Pyro :)

[DaveMurray]

Now I get it ... your Pyro did this to you! Yeah - that is a new toon ... it's called Traitor Pyro :)

With 75-80% win rate on attacks a traitor on my team is the missing piece to destroy me :p

[MoonShadow]

Now I get it ... your Pyro did this to you! Yeah - that is a new toon ... it's called Traitor Pyro :)That Red Pyro could be a traitor sometimes, indeed; I went, a couple of weeks ago, against a team which had one, and he burned all of his comrades. Twice. :D
Wish I've could record that match.

[IronSentinel]

Sparton, i have some bugs/comments to pass if they were not passed already:

- when trying to evolve a character, now the info popup of each shard (where to get them) is not appearing in the front but in background of this same window
- battlefield, toys of death: the picture of possessed mine assassin is wrong in the vs screen
- the order of characters in "my team" or when going to a battle does not mantain over the game
- can the numbers in amount of money or challenges be exact and not a rounded number??
- would be great to see in the list of troopers the last time they used your character (besides the notification when starting the game)
- angel of fear passive.. (a total mystery), sometimes it does not grant the extra turn.. and there are times that it is granted when the hp of the enemy is in the limit as if has 1 hp.. how is it calculated?
- in ppv the eddie head appears even if the characters have endure and hp 0
- had a lot of inventory errors trying to sell runes lately.. i have thousands stacked

[Nicko]

It's mid May today ;)

[Mizrael]

It's mid May today ;)

It's Nodding Frog ;)

[Patrice-1201]

It's mid May today ;)

:D:D: thinking exactly the same thing and hoping that Server under maintenance message will show up soon ;-)

[R1ck]

Sparton: just reported with images that The Prisoner Passive is blocking DD passive even when DD doesn't have the red X on top. Wishing to use more often DD, but is very week and not possible to combine shell and immunity talismans on him.
BTW as some has mentioned, it is Mid May, we all want the update soon :)

[Tritium]

Also, a fix for these server issues. They are killing the desire to play for a lot of us. :\

[Patrice-1201]

Also, a fix for these server issues. They are killing the desire to play for a lot of us. :\

6 PVP battles crashed on me at launch today... that is 6 sow lost 100 points loss and about 60 iron coins...

[Tritium]

6 PVP battles crashed on me at launch today... that is 6 sow lost 100 points loss and about 60 iron coins...

Yeah man, these crashes are horrible. It wouldn't be quite as bad if we didn't get punished for them with the battle counting as a loss, but oh well, such is the way the game works. Our opponents get rewarded for our bad luck, and we get the short end of the stick.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton, a question on Accuracy, since it was discussed in this thread.

Is the effect additive/subtractive or is it multiplied? If a skill has 40 % to trigger an effect and Accuracy Up is active (25 % higher chance for effects to trigger), will the total chance be 40 % + 25 % = 65 % or 40 % x 1,25 = 50 %?

Additive/subtractive (so 40 % + 25 % = 65 %).


I am using a GRE. A shot taken from the same team yesterday, i forgot the player's name again(yes i am an idiot!).
Pyro soldier used Defend and i had all my buffs removed(immunity included) and marks added. Funny thing is that after that ss i made a perfect attack and my marks explode..

Thanks for the additional info. I've passed this along to be further investigated.


Sparton, i have some bugs/comments to pass if they were not passed already:

- when trying to evolve a character, now the info popup of each shard (where to get them) is not appearing in the front but in background of this same window
- battlefield, toys of death: the picture of possessed mine assassin is wrong in the vs screen
- the order of characters in "my team" or when going to a battle does not mantain over the game
- can the numbers in amount of money or challenges be exact and not a rounded number??
- would be great to see in the list of troopers the last time they used your character (besides the notification when starting the game)
- angel of fear passive.. (a total mystery), sometimes it does not grant the extra turn.. and there are times that it is granted when the hp of the enemy is in the limit as if has 1 hp.. how is it calculated?
- in ppv the eddie head appears even if the characters have endure and hp 0
- had a lot of inventory errors trying to sell runes lately.. i have thousands stacked


Huh, and old bug come back. I've reopened that to be reviewed by the programmer; should be an easy fix.
I'll have that fixed not for this next update, but for the following one.
Yeah, there's some weirdness for inventory sorting. I'll see if I can have one of the programmers look at making that consistent.
There's some generalized logic that's done to ensure that numbers, descriptions, etc will fit even on devices which don't have as much screen real estate, so I can look and see if some could be adjusted, but probably can't do that everywhere.
Reporting time since a trooper last hired you (as opposed to just logging in) is a bit trickier, but is definitely something we want to look into. The game doesn't currently save that information in a way that's easy for the game to look up without hammering the servers (which would cause instability for everyone).
There's a few known issues regarding how the game checks for a "kill", which sometimes counts stuff that isn't actually a kill happening. It's something we're hoping to review and improve in one of the upcoming updates (not the impeding one, but at some point after that)
Same idea as the above point (issues with the game counting some stuff as a kill when it shouldn't)
Do you mean one stack literally has more than 999 runes on it, or just across multiple stacks? We're definitely investigating what's causing this for some players, but nothing should be over 999 for a single stack of runes or shards.



It's mid May today ;)

Pffft, we say Mid-May to give a range of days, not an exact day :P

Soon!


Sparton: just reported with images that The Prisoner Passive is blocking DD passive even when DD doesn't have the red X on top. Wishing to use more often DD, but is very week and not possible to combine shell and immunity talismans on him.

Yup, that's one of the fixes in the impeding update (technically listed as a fix under "The Prisoner" at the bottom of the tables).

[JJJ428]

I believe the last couple updates were on Wednesdays so I was hoping for Wednesday this week, I wouldn't have expected mid-May to mean today.

[Nicko]

There was a wink with that reminder - but definitely a nod to the fact that we're all eagerly anticipating the update

[Patrice-1201]

Sparton are there any known server issues today? I have now been able to start 8 Atena fights and 3 LOL dungeons but have lost sow and sot and recorded losses each time 😢

[druid138]

Sparton are there any known server issues today? I have now been able to start 8 Atena fights and 3 LOL dungeons but have lost sow and sot and recorded losses each time ��

Yep, some LoL MACL0s and Arena crashes for me today, too. Not a typical issue for me lately. Sorry to a couple Troopers for the MACL0 casualties.

druid138-6195

[Patrice-1201]

Yep, some LoL MACL0s and Arena crashes for me today, too. Not a typical issue for me lately. Sorry to a couple Troopers for the MACL0 casualties.

druid138-6195


For me it's not even MACLO the loading screen just goes on n forever and I have to restart the app

[Sparton_LOTB]

There was a wink with that reminder - but definitely a nod to the fact that we're all eagerly anticipating the update

Oh I know. Like I said, though, soon!


Sparton are there any known server issues today? I have now been able to start 8 Atena fights and 3 LOL dungeons but have lost sow and sot and recorded losses each time 😢


Yep, some LoL MACL0s and Arena crashes for me today, too. Not a typical issue for me lately. Sorry to a couple Troopers for the MACL0 casualties.

I've passed along the concerns to the team to investigate. Based on another thread Patrice started, there was one point where the server was flaky as far as our logs are concerned (around 5 AM PST), but we're not sure if there's more to it right now. A couple quick matches from me and everything is fine so far.

[Tritium]

For me it's not even MACLO the loading screen just goes on n forever and I have to restart the app

This is exactly what I'm experiencing as well. I normally try to ride out the loading screens because if they end in a PVTE<insert random number between 0 and 9 here> error, then I usually log back in to find the SOT weren't spent and my trooper can still be used. However, sometimes they end in MACL0.

[Patrice-1201]

This is exactly what I'm experiencing as well. I normally try to ride out the loading screens because if they end in a PVTE<insert random number between 0 and 9 here> error, then I usually log back in to find the SOT weren't spent and my trooper can still be used. However, sometimes they end in MACL0.

Well that's the strange thing mine do not result in anything

[Ringe666-7406]

Just remembered: is there any chance for SoL to get one mandatory green slot instead of blue in some of the next updates? :rolleyes: I swear to God, I would use no other Eddie anymore for Arena :cool:

[HomemLivre]

Just remembered: is there any chance for SoL to get one mandatory green slot instead of blue in some of the next updates? :rolleyes: I swear to God, I would use no other Eddie anymore for Arena :cool:

Wow, that would be awesome! I like this Eddie so much and if they do it he will have room in many teams!

[Hypnos]

Wow, that would be awesome! I like this Eddie so much and if they do it he will have room in many teams!

There's no need for that, he is a good and reliable eddie with his uses.

[Liebhild]

How can a Desert Marauder steal invisibilty???

[Nekroliun]

How can a Desert Marauder steal invisibilty???

Thief Talisman probably

[Liebhild]

Thief steals fury, but buffs?

[The Educated fool]

Just remembered: is there any chance for SoL to get one mandatory green slot instead of blue in some of the next updates? :rolleyes: I swear to God, I would use no other Eddie anymore for Arena :cool:

Why would you need to change his slots to use him in the Arena? He has three uncoloured slots; a pair of shells takes two of them. He doesn't need anything else, in my experience... and I've literally never used another Eddie in the Arena. :cool:

Not every toon needs Immunity. lol

[Nekroliun]

Thief steals fury, but buffs?

Advanced Thief Talisman probably

[The Educated fool]

Behave yourself, Nekro. lol :cool:

[Nekroliun]

Behave yourself, Nekro. lol :cool:

Just trying to help!

[Liebhild]

Thx for helping :-)

[Coletrain]

Servers undergoing maintenance...update time?

[Ringe666-7406]

Why would you need to change his slots to use him in the Arena? He has three uncoloured slots; a pair of shells takes two of them. He doesn't need anything else, in my experience... and I've literally never used another Eddie in the Arena. :cool:

Not every toon needs Immunity. lol

Maybe I'm not as good as you TEF :P Or just don't have guts to try it without immunity, or maybe there is some other tactic which is not shell (n)or immunity :P

[The Educated fool]

Maybe I'm not as good as you TEF :P Or just don't have guts to try it without immunity, or maybe there is some other tactic which is not shell (n)or immunity :P

That's a whole lotta maybes, my friend. :cool:

[Tritium]

Lol Nekro, do you happen to have any more of those advanced thief talismans? I sure could use some!


Server maintenance...looks like we may be getting that mid-May update now! :cool:

[Fister]

Servers undergoing maintenance...update time?

Hope so. And hopefully my AAD can start doing his job against non-Gimp teams. I miss the immunity when facing taunt/stun teams.

[The Educated fool]

lol--Yeah, server maintenance... so glad I just bought a SoW refill (that I knew better than to buy in the first place, but was bored and thought what the hell) lol :cool:

[IronSentinel]

updating the app right now ;)

[Killhouse]

App Store update is there,

4 Eternal characters eddy, clairvoyant, beelzebub, and wrath.
Soul fragments,
precious souls for HUGE rewards,
skull quest system
and bug fixes

[Patrice-1201]

updating the app right now ;)

Eternity Eddie, the Clairvoyant, Belzebub and Wrath!!! PVP will be awesome

[PsiH86]

The server, as always after the last updates, in hard drinking)))

[Tritium]

App Store update is there,

4 Eternal characters eddy, clairvoyant, beelzebub, and wrath.
Soul fragments,
precious souls for HUGE rewards,
skull quest system
and bug fixes

Whoa, looks awesome! Thanks for listing the new content here, Killhouse!

[Thedarkness]

Dear lord, jofers gonna have eternity eddie now, maybe nicko too