June 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss general changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?6365).

[Mariner-1212]

Hey Sparton,
Not sure if this is how it's supposed to work or not, but when Mystic Eddie's Immortality is executed on a teammate and they come back, they're coming back with 1-hit's worth of health (similar to Clairvoyant's Eddie issue, I believe). I noticed it's fixed for her in this next update, so I was wondering if this one could be snuck in as well?

\m/

[Demoonchild]

Hey Sparton!!
Just some questions to be more clear, now Beelzebub mandatory slots will be all greens? If it right.. why??
The Fervor fix is supposed give the next attack charge right??
Viking MR charge is broken right now, is not goin' to be fixed in this update??
There won't be "special" Talismans for Assassins too?? Or we must take the Resilience and Resistance previous update as a kind of new ones?? (Like shell for greens, Strike for warriors, immunity for Gunners and life for magus)

Thanks in advance!!

[slauki]

hi sparton, can you please explain how beelzes talismans slots will look like?
i read it that way that he will have 3 green and 3 free slots?

on the paper the changes look very reasonable. love the buffs for beelzebub and vampire hunter and other unused characters. would be very cool if you guys would consider some buffs to the poor alliance general, who is extremly unused as rare 5* :-).


i'm a little concerned, that the rng factor will be higher after the update, but that's just a vague idea ofc. have to see how this will work out in practise.


hope we will get cool content too :D
and please consider a rerelease of shells and immunity before BNW, because some players who have a lot of those really have a unfair advantage over those who don't have them...

[HomemLivre]

Tks for releasing this patch notes to us, Sparton and Kaz, really appreciated.

Im taking a time to read here but I like the first look, some nice changes with unused chars like Beel, looks like he will worth to be a 5*.

[Bradata]

I don't care much for the characters tuning, we all gonna adapt with whatever changes they throw at us. I'm more interested in what new content they are preparing for us and WHEN it is going to come.

[HomemLivre]

Sparton, will Vampire Hunter Eddies "Claim" skill be fixed to properly heal all allies?

[The Educated fool]

100% agree with slauki... given the existence and propagation of Immunity talismans, Corrupt General's damage is ridiculous. We buff Cyborg fifty ways to Sunday every update... why must the general continue to hit like a toddler with a head cold? He needs a buff.

Also: what prompted the changes to Speed of Light Eddie and The Wicker Man? I very rarely see either of these in the Arena, and I have a hard time believing that either are in any way either over or underpowered, given that they've been the way they are for such a long time without anyone whining about them... so what made you change them? It reminds me of the way Warrior Troll was casually neutered a few updates back. Seems extremely arbitrary, and frankly, annoying.

[R1ck]

I also don't agree to the changes to speed of light, no one ever complain about him. Really absurd.

[BG840]

I would like to see 2-3 "on deck" slots added to the arena menu for us players that often have to swap toons. Like regular team then sub A,B,C to keep from scrolling the list all the time. Just a thought.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Not sure if this is how it's supposed to work or not, but when Mystic Eddie's Immortality is executed on a teammate and they come back, they're coming back with 1-hit's worth of health (similar to Clairvoyant's Eddie issue, I believe). I noticed it's fixed for her in this next update, so I was wondering if this one could be snuck in as well?

One of our QA guys tried that out and saw the character who died with Immortality revived with the expected 60% HP, so this doesn't appear to happen all the time.

If you see this happen again, please take a screenshot and post a thread with how you got into that situation in the Bug Reports (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?35) subforum.


Just some questions to be more clear, now Beelzebub mandatory slots will be all greens? If it right.. why??
The Fervor fix is supposed give the next attack charge right??
Viking MR charge is broken right now, is not goin' to be fixed in this update??
There won't be "special" Talismans for Assassins too?? Or we must take the Resilience and Resistance previous update as a kind of new ones?? (Like shell for greens, Strike for warriors, immunity for Gunners and life for magus)


We're switching Beelzebub to all greens to allow him to be extremely tanky (or be fairly tanky while having a lot of options for different talisman augments at the same time), as we feel that better differentiates him from his Eternal peers.
Correct.
If it's not in the preliminary patch notes, we do not have a fix for it yet, but we may be able to by the time the update is finalized and is submitted.
We have at least one more Purple talisman planned, but it's not ready for release yet, and we feel that the next two will be a more interesting impact with the current PVP meta.



hi sparton, can you please explain how beelzes talismans slots will look like?
i read it that way that he will have 3 green and 3 free slots?

Correct.


would be very cool if you guys would consider some buffs to the poor alliance general, who is extremly unused as rare 5* :-).

He's actually one of the most used Sentinels by attackers in PVP. I don't think many people on the forums use him, as that statistic surprised me as well. That said, I know of one other developer who makes good use of him, just with what most people would consider atypical team compositions, so there's definitely people who are a fan of his unique gimmicks and make them count.


and please consider a rerelease of shells and immunity before BNW, because some players who have a lot of those really have a unfair advantage over those who don't have them...

Well, not everyone will be a fan of it, but we just released a promotion in the store for the ability to buy some special talisman packs which include a whole slew of rare and useful talismans, so you can check that out.

We are looking at other ways we can reintroduce them in a limited fashion via other methods, too, since even once BNW is out, they'll be damn rare to grind for.


Sparton, will Vampire Hunter Eddies "Claim" skill be fixed to properly heal all allies?

We don't have a fix for that yet. Kaz says he'll double check the data and see if there's something we're missing, but the way that skill is supposed to function is fairly unique, so it may not be a fix we can do without involving a programmer.


100% agree with slauki... given the existence and propagation of Immunity talismans, Corrupt General's damage is ridiculous. We buff Cyborg fifty ways to Sunday every update... why must the general continue to hit like a toddler with a head cold? He needs a buff.

The Corrupt General is still one of the most used characters on attack for PVP, so I think many other players disagree with you there. With all the options for removing buffs from enemies that are in the game right now, he definitely pulls his weight in the right situations.

(Plus, while not meta-changing, his power skill can AoE seal, which people have pointed out works great with Mystic Eddie in a defensive attack team.)


Also: what prompted the changes to Speed of Light Eddie and The Wicker Man? I very rarely see either of these in the Arena, and I have a hard time believing that either are in any way either over or underpowered, given that they've been the way they are for such a long time without anyone whining about them... so what made you change them? It reminds me of the way Warrior Troll was casually neutered a few updates back. Seems extremely arbitrary, and frankly, annoying.

For Speed of Light Eddie, his basic attack Restore literally heals 100% HP in most situations, which is not intended (especially for a basic attack), so that was scaled back accordingly. That said, we also looked at the proc chances for many of his other skills and felt that, since he's not a major damage dealer, he could use with better proc rates, and thus the other changes.

For The Wicker Man, we just wanted to see more use with him, and for him (and Fear of the Dark Eddie) we wanted to make sure that the Defense scaling accounted for more to make collecting and using different talismans and status effects more impactful.

But like Corrupt General, Speed of Light Eddie and The Wicker Man are actually reasonably commonly used (at least on attack), but nonetheless we felt that these changes to make them more used can perhaps encourage different kinds of teams to consider using them, too. It's not as obvious for most players right now, but we're also looking at adding in improvements so you can see what kinds of teams have attacked you so you as players can see a bit more of this diversity as well.


I would like to see 2-3 "on deck" slots added to the arena menu for us players that often have to swap toons. Like regular team then sub A,B,C to keep from scrolling the list all the time. Just a thought.

Yeah, improvements for refining a team (or swapping between preset teams) is definitely something we're looking into, it's just very tricky and time-consuming to make sure we can get everything working for all kinds of device sizes.

[RCarter]

Sparton, any word on fixing the acheivements?

We lost credit for all previous achievements earned in a past update, and it sure would be nice to get that credit back.

[The Educated fool]

The Corrupt General is still one of the most used characters on attack for PVP, so I think many other players disagree with you there. With all the options for removing buffs from enemies that are in the game right now, he definitely pulls his weight in the right situations.

(Plus, while not meta-changing, his power skill can AoE seal, which people have pointed out works great with Mystic Eddie in a defensive attack team.)



For Speed of Light Eddie, his basic attack Restore literally heals 100% HP in most situations, which is not intended (especially for a basic attack), so that was scaled back accordingly. That said, we also looked at the proc chances for many of his other skills and felt that, since he's not a major damage dealer, he could use with better proc rates, and thus the other changes.

For The Wicker Man, we just wanted to see more use with him, and for him (and Fear of the Dark Eddie) we wanted to make sure that the Defense scaling accounted for more to make collecting and using different talismans and status effects more impactful.

But like Corrupt General, Speed of Light Eddie and The Wicker Man are actually reasonably commonly used (at least on attack), but nonetheless we felt that these changes to make them more used can perhaps encourage different kinds of teams to consider using them, too. It's not as obvious for most players right now, but we're also looking at adding in improvements so you can see what kinds of teams have attacked you so you as players can see a bit more of this diversity as well.


I will wait to see what the fallout is from the change to SoL, but his heal is his main selling point, and this change really does feel arbitrary as hell, given how long he's been that way... but at least I got the "suck it up, buttercup" from your lips, so that's something I guess. lol

As for the General... I didn't say that he wasn't useful in some situations. He is (and shouldn't he be? Kinda seems like a no-brainer, for a 5*). Are you honestly going to tell me though that his damage output seems fine to you for a 5*, especially his basic attack? And how does lots of people using him change the fact that he does 3k damage AoE after 14 shards? You advertise this guy, man! He used to be a star, and you nerfed him twice for the stun... with as much immunity as is in play these days, wouldn't it make sense to restore some of his damage? I have a feeling most players are behind slauki and I on this one... especially if as many are using him as you say. :cool:

[Demoonchild]

Thanks for taking your time and answer all us questions Sparton, I have another one, regarding to the Talisman cache and Talisman hoard SQ, any plan for them to be "improved"???
I mean, is weird that one of the hardest stages of the game, also a secret one, special one or whatever name it has, gives as reward just one freeze talisman, for 12 SOT... Is not worthy at all!!

[Coletrain]

A few thoughts...

-As an avid SoL Eddie user, I hope the changes to his heal skills are not too drastic. Not having a good heal drastically reduces his usefulness.
-The only reason I leveled Burning Mummy Dog to 100 was for the chance to Mark using his power skill. Why is this being changed, especially when so few characters have a chance to mark? Shouldn't more characters be given the mark skill instead of reducing the number of characters who can mark? Makes it tough to find allies for rainmaker/vampire hunter.
-Will more characters be given the doom or seal skills? Doom is especially rare which makes synergizing with mystic eddie hard.
-Will there be any changes to Aces High Eddie? We have talked for a few months about how his shield skills are near worthless and need changed, can we expect anything for him?
-Will there be more characters added who have attacks that scale with either DEF or MR? Viking Eddie in particular has MR charge and no allies that have MR scaling attacks (unless you count possessed hourglass, good luck using that one in PvP)

[DIEDD]

Hi sparton, i have only one question.
Something thought for aces high eddie skills?

[BonFire]

Hey, I posted in the bugs page a couple weeks ago about the Resistance talismans not working for defence, but it doesn't look like that's in the notes. Is it a hard fix, or were you guys aware of it?

[kkkreg5]

Reducing SOL Eddie's heal really sucks. That is one of his most useful skills because his attack is horrible. Wasn't there a bug reported for Corrupt Rescuer? Nothing addressing that. Teams with that character on defense have an unfair advantage IN MY OPINION. Has anyone seen the "Lord Of Light" on a team or received that character as soul drop?

[Hypnos]

Hi sparton, i have only one question.
Something thought for aces high eddie skills?

Yes, I thought this was something you were working on for a long time, now?

[Nicko]

The Corrupt General is still one of the most used characters on attack for PVP, so I think many other players disagree with you there. With all the options for removing buffs from enemies that are in the game right now, he definitely pulls his weight in the right situations.

(Plus, while not meta-changing, his power skill can AoE seal, which people have pointed out works great with Mystic Eddie in a defensive attack team.)



And Justin Bieber is one of the most listened-to artists; doesn't mean Maiden fans want to hear him ;)

Count me among those who's CG is collecting dust. The series of nerfs was too severe; his ability to stun doesn't outweigh his pathetic damage.

As opposed to looking at the playerbase as a whole i'd love to know his use among the top 100. When I'm facing the "power players" - those who rank top 50 in PvP (many who contribute to this forum) - I'm more likely to spot a Yeti than a Corrupt General. Perhaps he's used on offense and I'm just not aware of it.

And while you're not tailoring the game to these players - these are people who either have been playing a long time or know the game well - or both. And they don't use him. Why? He's anemic in his current condition - and that's a shame.

The exception - for a brief period - was Ringe. But he combined him with Wrath (who in that situation was removing all buffs with 100% certainty) and an accuracy buff on the stun as well. Smart thinking and a best-case scenario for the General. But three guesses why he's no longer part of Ringe's defense...

[Silentknight]

And Justin Bieber is one of the most listened-to artists; doesn't mean Maiden fans want to hear him ;)

Count me among those who's CG is collecting dust. The series of nerfs was too severe; his ability to stun doesn't outweigh his pathetic damage.

As opposed to looking at the playerbase as a whole i'd love to know his use among the top 100. When I'm facing the "power players" - those who rank top 50 in PvP (many who contribute to this forum) - I'm more likely to spot a Yeti than a Corrupt General. Perhaps he's used on offense and I'm just not aware of it.

And while you're not tailoring the game to these players - these are people who either have been playing a long time or know the game well - or both. And they don't use him. Why? He's anemic in his current condition - and that's a shame.

The exception - for a brief period - was Ringe. But he combined him with Wrath (who in that situation was removing all buffs with 100% certainty) and an accuracy buff on the stun as well. Smart thinking and a best-case scenario for the General. But three guesses why he's no longer part of Ringe's defense...
Omfg! Just seen the Bieber part & had to look,lmao! Count me in too...CG=dust collector

[Askora]

Omfg! Just seen the Bieber part & had to look,lmao! Count me in too...CG=dust collector

I use mine to be able to keep 6 extra talismans. :cool:

[Browno]

My cg is also a character i do not use anymore even tho 14 skillshards is invested in him

[Jofer16]

Have to agree with Sparton on CG. His ability to CC an entire team on a basic skill doesn't warrant a damage increase, he's OP as fuck with the right synergy.

This pains me though agreeing with him knowing his hypocrisy, but truth prevails.

Anyone remember when he had such a firm stance on not allowing this game to be taken over by pay to win players? Back when he and my trolls thought I was some garbage ratio/% player, lol. Proved my point in the subsequent weeks, but let's not forget, I singlehandidly made the devs scramble with meta/arena system changes.

And now they're selling talismans by the bundle and shit, what a joke lol Guess they're milking easy cash grabs before these are all free in new content, if new content ever comes.

What happened to the moral high ground Sparton? Master of Puppets.

[slauki]

sorry guys but the talisman packs in the store make me kinda sad/mad. you create a bottelneck and try to milk it all the way?
man that's really indecent i feel.

i hated the packs last week, but they had reasonable prices at least, but this joke of "dominator pack" is far away from reasonable.
i hate it to see how a free to play game gets a new pay to win approach. sure you have to make money but this is violating the spirit of the game too much.
we are all waiting for months to get something new and usefull and you lately just try to sell stuff? very inappropriate at this state of the game, where nothing meaningfull
happends for weeks/months (aside immortal event which was awesome).

and please stop this false advertising. the disappointment is huge when you announce a "big event" and we get one new character and souls to buy. this is an event okay, but not big by any means. you created a hype and now the shitstorm arises, which is understandable. same issue with the store prices where something is reduced from 349$ to 49,99$? man most of us are loyal customers and no idiots. and it feels like some of the guys in your company think that we are dumb sheeps...

[Jofer16]

@Sparton

"that smile is a sign that you're selling out"

"barely trust em, they're all puppets"


https://youtu.be/l5VRXTEGO2w

[Tridimensionale]

Well.. Wrath nerf was needed and all BUT increase power skill cost too ? wtf ? you are gonna kill this toon
And what about the others heavy removal toon ??? MCR does 100% (single toon only but still OP to me) .. Clairvoyant procac 80% full team..

[Browno]

Well.. Wrath nerf was needed and all BUT increase power skill cost too ? wtf ? you are gonna kill this toon
And what about the others heavy removal toon ??? MCR does 100% (single toon only but still OP to me) .. Clairvoyant procac 80% full team..
Look again. Mcr is nerfed to 65%

[Tridimensionale]

Look again. Mcr is nerfed to 65%

Right.. my bad

[Rain88]

Why the constant nerf for magus corrupt rescuer. It's my favorite toon

[osiris0000]

I stand up for Corrupt General too.

Yes, he have that %30 stun chance and very expensive power move (costs 7) with seal (which will take lot of turns to take advantage with Mystic Eddie)

But on the other hand CG is not only toon have debuff in his basic move.
With all new game meta you have to sacrifice a lot (i mean a TON) from team attack power for applying that %30 chance Stun.
Stun is not that dangerous with all that Immunity Talismans going around nowadays.

If he was even hitting between 4000-5000 k, it would be fair enough.
But 2000-3000 k AOE on a maxed 5* char (14 Skillshards) is something that only we can see on some 1* - 2* toons.
(and i am sure most of them hit harder when maxed)

And some 3* & 4* toons hit way much harder with good skills.
As a long time player, i can easily say CG is out of balance about being very fragile.

One last thing, if a lot of people are using him - it doesn't always mean everyone is happy about it.
I believe low-mid game ranks is are big part of player population - and if a low-mid game player gets a CG, of course they will use him.
But problem is he is 5* class and hardly seen on PVP top ranks.With his current state, i can't see him as a 5*.
Practically, he is 4* in my eyes.

My 2 cents.

[IceManFerrar]

Look again. Mcr is nerfed to 65%

Too bad about MCR...she will lose some of her value in PvP.

Can someone though please explain the changes to the W/A NBoLs? Do they not remove beneficial effects 100%? I am confused by the verbiage on the tuning notes (stats and skill balancing).

Thanks!

[RobG-9641]

I'm pretty close to giving up on this game after this bizarre response from Sparton

- Sparton, will Vampire Hunter Eddies "Claim" skill be fixed to properly heal all allies?
We don't have a fix for that yet. Kaz says he'll double check the data and see if there's something we're missing, but the way that skill is supposed to function is fairly unique, so it may not be a fix we can do without involving a programmer. -

"Involving a programmer"??? Do you not have an on staff programmer?! So admittedly, a character will stay not functioning properly, but characters people use (and are not upset with) are getting adjusted? 12 sands of time Talisman level won't drop new or rare talismans but can be bought for absurd prices in the store?

Every month something is sort of fixed, left unfixed, randomly changed, scaled, increased, decreased, etc.
Still plenty of random error messages, crashes and bugs...

This isn't a battle or strategy game, it's an elaborate slot machine game. Pull the lever, watch the lights flash, see what you've won. Repeat.

Can't overthink this mess anymore...

[Nerada]

If I understood correctly, the "Lower DEF" effect will remove 100% of the BASE def, and the chance of removing all beneficial effects will be lower (75%), however i wonder if this chance will be affected by the bonus effect chances provided by maxing the skill and therefore still giving them the ablity to remove buffs

For MCR, will her base % be 15% and sharding her will still improve it by 50% or base 50% and sharding provide 15% to reach 65%

[MrFreeze]

Reading these tuning notes makes me not want to use skill shards on anyone. You guys make it so difficult to max a characters skills, then change them regularly. Either leave the characters alone or make skill shards easier to get. It's ridiculous.

[Silentknight]

Reading these tuning notes makes me not want to use skill shards on anyone. You guys make it so difficult to max a characters skills, then change them regularly. Either leave the characters alone or make skill shards easier to get. It's ridiculous.
That's y some of us have 50+ in stock! Imagine if u weren't in forum & had to figure out what's goin on by urself!!! Stop screwing with the toons! Pay more attention to what ur releasing!

[Silentknight]

Reading these tuning notes makes me not want to use skill shards on anyone. You guys make it so difficult to max a characters skills, then change them regularly. Either leave the characters alone or make skill shards easier to get. It's ridiculous.
Actually this is all part of their plan...keep changing toons so people have to keep spending $ to build em up! Be like me & DON'T SPEND SHIT!!!

[Sleestak]

Reading these tuning notes makes me not want to use skill shards on anyone. You guys make it so difficult to max a characters skills, then change them regularly. Either leave the characters alone or make skill shards easier to get. It's ridiculous.

I have 30 skill shards and 120K trooper points sitting around for this very reason. I suppose change is good in a game like this, I'd just like to see all of this energy that is put into tuning focused elsewhere. I'm just riding out the storm with the sharded characters I have. If there's one I really like, I'll invest in them, but there's no sense in trying to keep up with the latest character changes by sharding the latest toy every week.

One thing I do like is that NF has at least acknowledged that natural 5 star characters should be worth their rarity. I remember the days where there were many 2 and even 1 star characters that were just as powerful (e.g. PSS, Imp). Natural 5 stars should be naturally better than other characters and I think they've made a lot of good improvements in that over the last few months.

It's a tough situation NF got themselves into, because all of this tuning is focused strictly around PVP. PVP is great and more fun than I'd though it would be when first intorduced. However, PVE has been put on the back burner for so long, they're going to have to introduce a whole new style of play to make it fun again. I think my biggest fear is that when BNW finally comes out, most people will have it beat in a week's time. Then we'll have to sit around for another year waiting for Night City.

[MrFreeze]

Actually this is all part of their plan...keep changing toons so people have to keep spending $ to build em up! Be like me & DON'T SPEND SHIT!!!

I don't and I wouldn't recommend anyone spend on it at the moment. I've put a little money into it in the past but not much. I find it hard to spend on mobile games because they almost always end up dead and gone. It's not like old console games where you can pick them up 20 yrs later and play them again.

If the devs start putting the effort into fixing bugs and advancing new content that they are into tuning and the store, then maybe I'd invest small amounts again. But right now I don't even know where they're trying to go with it. Pvp is fun but I'd like to continue the story, or have new dungeons or even new event levels. it seems all the emphasis is on pvp these days. pvp that's broken in numerous ways.

Also, small mistake in the store scam

3213


3214

[MrFreeze]

I have 30 skill shards and 120K trooper points sitting around for this very reason. I suppose change is good in a game like this, I'd just like to see all of this energy that is put into tuning focused elsewhere. I'm just riding out the storm with the sharded characters I have. If there's one I really like, I'll invest in them, but there's no sense in trying to keep up with the latest character changes by sharding the latest toy every week.

One thing I do like is that NF has at least acknowledged that natural 5 star characters should be worth their rarity. I remember the days where there were many 2 and even 1 star characters that were just as powerful (e.g. PSS, Imp). Natural 5 stars should be naturally better than other characters and I think they've made a lot of good improvements in that over the last few months.

It's a tough situation NF got themselves into, because all of this tuning is focused strictly around PVP. PVP is great and more fun than I'd though it would be when first intorduced. However, PVE has been put on the back burner for so long, they're going to have to introduce a whole new style of play to make it fun again. I think my biggest fear is that when BNW finally comes out, most people will have it beat in a week's time. Then we'll have to sit around for another year waiting for Night City.


i was thinking the same thing as we both typed these posts

[Shaolin85london]

I don't and I wouldn't recommend anyone spend on it at the moment. I've put a little money into it in the past but not much. I find it hard to spend on mobile games because they almost always end up dead and gone. It's not like old console games where you can pick them up 20 yrs later and play them again.

If the devs start putting the effort into fixing bugs and advancing new content that they are into tuning and the store, then maybe I'd invest small amounts again. But right now I don't even know where they're trying to go with it. Pvp is fun but I'd like to continue the story, or have new dungeons or even new event levels. it seems all the emphasis is on pvp these days. pvp that's broken in numerous ways.

Also, small mistake in the store scam

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3214

There you go.
I don't be LIE ve it's a mistake, instead I guess that's just a final spot of an already dated planned marketing strategy.
Likewise I seriously think BNW has been ultimate from long time now, because it don't come out yet well, that's a good but easy solving question 🤓

[Kris-0707]

I don't and I wouldn't recommend anyone spend on it at the moment. I've put a little money into it in the past but not much. I find it hard to spend on mobile games because they almost always end up dead and gone. It's not like old console games where you can pick them up 20 yrs later and play them again.

If the devs start putting the effort into fixing bugs and advancing new content that they are into tuning and the store, then maybe I'd invest small amounts again. But right now I don't even know where they're trying to go with it. Pvp is fun but I'd like to continue the story, or have new dungeons or even new event levels. it seems all the emphasis is on pvp these days. pvp that's broken in numerous ways.

Also, small mistake in the store scam

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3214

Mistake is the price, who will pay so much money for these talismans? You can buy whole game or two for Xbox or PS4 instead.
I understand that games for mobile phone have micro-transactions, but come on, UK price for this is GBP 58.99 that's just insane.
Certainly more than 10 peoples would buy it for 5.89 than 1 person will buy it for 58.99.

[Jofer16]

That's y some of us have 50+ in stock! Imagine if u weren't in forum & had to figure out what's goin on by urself!!! Stop screwing with the toons! Pay more attention to what ur releasing!

Can confirm. Sitting on 70 skill shards and too afraid to use them based on previous trends. The meta merry go round is too fast here.

[Liebhild]

LOL they make an event to get the NBOL and then nerf him (cannot really say, what I think about NF, this would surely get me a ban).

Also I wonder if that toon-lottery is app store/play store conform.

[Nicko]

Can confirm. Sitting on 70 skill shards and too afraid to use them based on previous trends. The meta merry go round is too fast here.

Dang! Let them be and auction your account on eBay when you're bored and done - I think you'd definitely have some takers, especially since the winner could basically configure his own fully-sharded team right off the bat.

But I also think it illustrates a great point. You don't NEED every toon in the book of souls to be successful. Just some of the key ones and a well-thought out strategy. You've been hugely conservative wth your shards - and won Eternal more than anyone by a mile.

But that's exactly the reason I DO shard my toons - I can win with what I have - so the shards are really not that critical. So I shard who I want when I want to enjoy the variety - it's one of the things in a game with little content I enjoy - switching out Eddies in particular. I usually keep a stock of 10-20 shards in case some really great toon comes along (like Wrath) that I want to shard right away - and I know I can get 5-6 a week from playing my normal style. So I'd rather spend them and enjoy them now - cause the meta will never stop changing.

Do I have sharded toons that collect dust? Absolutely - see CG a few pages back. But had a blast with him while he was awesome - so he definitely earned his keep.

Just a different take...

[Jofer16]

Dang! Let them be and auction your account on eBay when you're bored and done - I think you'd definitely have some takers, especially since the winner could basically configure his own fully-sharded team right off the bat.

But I also think it illustrates a great point. You don't NEED every toon in the book of souls to be successful. Just some of the key ones and a well-thought out strategy. You've been hugely conservative wth your shards - and won Eternal more than anyone by a mile.

But that's exactly the reason I DO shard my toons - I can win with what I have - so the shards are really not that critical. So I shard who I want when I want to enjoy the variety - it's one of the things in a game with little content I enjoy - switching out Eddies in particular. I usually keep a stock of 10-20 shards in case some really great toon comes along (like Wrath) that I want to shard right away - and I know I can get 5-6 a week from playing my normal style. So I'd rather spend them and enjoy them now - cause the meta will never stop changing.

Do I have sharded toons that collect dust? Absolutely - see CG a few pages back. But had a blast with him while he was awesome - so he definitely earned his keep.

Just a different take...

Yeah I used to do that, but then realized, why should I grind away endlessly just to keep up with the devs lack of experience. Let's not pretend, this game is still in beta. Think I prolly just have meta change PTSD now lol

And that's a good point about eBay, always an option. Got out of Topps Bunt baseball app that very way. Sold my collection for literally thousands of dollars :)

Think I'm just in a rut from where this games going and no desire to invest my shards. And like you said, I can easily win Eternal using my current lineup so coupled with the devs willingness to swing the nerf bat, I'm in cruise control mode.

When are you coming over to Transformers? lol

[Jofer16]

Jofer16 account for sale. Anyone want a taste of greatness? lol

[Silentknight]

Jofer16 account for sale. Anyone want a taste of greatness? lol

Well used!!!

[Monte47]

Yes, I thought this was something you were working on for a long time, now?

What would you want done with him? I am using him, and though, he is a bit squishy, he is my new favorite Eddie. Please don't murk him up Sparton. Lol, I was just going to start sharding him

[Monte47]

Why the constant nerf for magus corrupt rescuer. It's my favorite toon

I gotta agree here. She steals from one toon, hits one toon, and doesn't distribute steals to all allies. Why can't this just be a great toon to have. I love her, is such a fun character, and an actual benefit in defense. Why can't there just be some "Legendary" type souls that you feel lucky to have pulled?

Meh, I'm bored now. I'll keep getting you guy's your trooper points, but there is just no way to keep up with the changes. My defense is finally holding between 30 and 50 percent, and now she won't be worth using on it. I don't get it. Is this No child Left Behind or something? But I digress, is what it is.

[Ezz]

Hi sparton, i have only one question.
Something thought for aces high eddie skills?

Agree please look at Aces High and those 2 shield skills. I would love to skillshards him up and put him into play for PVP but I am not throwing away 8 skillshards on 2 skills I will seldom if ever use.

[Coletrain]

What would you want done with him? I am using him, and though, he is a bit squishy, he is my new favorite Eddie. Please don't murk him up Sparton. Lol, I was just going to start sharding him
Assuming we're still talking about Aces High Eddie, his 2 shield skills take up 8 skill shards and are almost entirely useless. He's one of my favorite Eddies but I refuse to pump valuable shards into throwaway skills and I know others feel the same. He's not a true 5* Eddie until he gets some new skills.

[Monte47]

Assuming we're still talking about Aces High Eddie, his 2 shield skills take up 8 skill shards and are almost entirely useless. He's one of my favorite Eddies but I refuse to pump valuable shards into throwaway skills and I know others feel the same. He's not a true 5* Eddie until he gets some new skills.

Ah, I see. And, I didn't notice it didn't quote you both when I replied. Cheers

[DIEDD]

Assuming we're still talking about Aces High Eddie, his 2 shield skills take up 8 skill shards and are almost entirely useless. He's one of my favorite Eddies but I refuse to pump valuable shards into throwaway skills and I know others feel the same. He's not a true 5* Eddie until he gets some new skills.

I have mine fully sharded, and I still do not see the levels increase in these two shields besides they are simply useless, the red troll does the same skill (guard) and makes it better... besides that it does not need skill shards.

[iPoop]

Hi Sparton, I have a few questions and comments for your consideration.

Questions:
• If you’re working on the Magus CotD, would you please look at its Blizzard Shield? I do not believe there is any way its freezing at the 30% stated rate. On offence in PvP, my experience is that it’s much lower.
• Why nerf the Warrior & Assassin NBoL?
• If you’re working on the Wickerman, is there any chance you’ll be showing love to the poor Wickerman Eddie?

Comments:
• The Corrupt General is one of the toons that I fear in PvP. His ability to lower magic resistance on my whole team with a chance of applying stuns means that I target him first for elimination. I do not feel he is currently under powered.
• I’m am sad to see another Magus Corrupt Rescuer nerf.

[Rain88]

I gotta agree here. She steals from one toon, hits one toon, and doesn't distribute steals to all allies. Why can't this just be a great toon to have. I love her, is such a fun character, and an actual benefit in defense. Why can't there just be some "Legendary" type souls that you feel lucky to have pulled?

Meh, I'm bored now. I'll keep getting you guy's your trooper points, but there is just no way to keep up with the changes. My defense is finally holding between 30 and 50 percent, and now she won't be worth using on it. I don't get it. Is this No child Left Behind or something? But I digress, is what it is.

She's balanced the way she is now and she's far from op.... She dies easily in the arena and she steals from one target only. But she's a good toon regardless (she's the reason I'm able to win most arena attacks) and she's easy to get (dropped 3 times) , not everyone is lucky with getting good toons. Nerfing her in every update is not making sense to me. I keep losing interest in this game.

[BG840]

LOL they make an event to get the NBOL and then nerf him (cannot really say, what I think about NF, this would surely get me a ban).

Also I wonder if that toon-lottery is app store/play store conform.

I can't even laugh at something as ludicrous as this. Makes no sense at all. Feel sorry for everyone that dropped $$ into getting and beefing him up only to be slapped in the face. Thankfully I got one before and could enjoy his help getting past toons I'll probably never see in my lineup. Single attack guaranteed remove beneficial not really a game changer, but enough to make a difference. NF this truly shows that your only concerns for us players goes only as deep as our wallets. Seriously, this on top of all the bugs/technical difficulties y'all repeatedly acknowledge yet refuse to correct(scaling, proc rates, tali effects, that stupid screen that pops up every time I switch toons, etc. etc.), that hinders gameplay is absolutely ridiculous. Like many others before me have pleaded, please address the basic trouble issues with gameplay first and foremost! Then worry about new content and the next way to get yer greedy little fingers into our wallets. Hell we've waited this long on BNW, and Night City, what's a little longer wait IF you fix the broken elements of the game as it is now. Sadly I'm beginning to think there are so many issues at hand y'all have forgotten some and don't know how to fix others and to compound the problem add more stuff that arrives broken and doesn't play well with the other broken toys. I had my fingers crossed these were things being worked on while you had us "chasing the carrot". Nodding is appropriate to the name because someone is definitely asleep at the wheel!!

[Jofer16]

I can't even laugh at something as ludicrous as this. Makes no sense at all. Feel sorry for everyone that dropped $$ into getting and beefing him up only to be slapped in the face. Thankfully I got one before and could enjoy his help getting past toons I'll probably never see in my lineup. Single attack guaranteed remove beneficial not really a game changer, but enough to make a difference. NF this truly shows that your only concerns for us players goes only as deep as our wallets. Seriously, this on top of all the bugs/technical difficulties y'all repeatedly acknowledge yet refuse to correct(scaling, proc rates, tali effects, that stupid screen that pops up every time I switch toons, etc. etc.), that hinders gameplay is absolutely ridiculous. Like many others before me have pleaded, please address the basic trouble issues with gameplay first and foremost! Then worry about new content and the next way to get yer greedy little fingers into our wallets. Hell we've waited this long on BNW, and Night City, what's a little longer wait IF you fix the broken elements of the game as it is now. Sadly I'm beginning to think there are so many issues at hand y'all have forgotten some and don't know how to fix others and to compound the problem add more stuff that arrives broken and doesn't play well with the other broken toys. I had my fingers crossed these were things being worked on while you had us "chasing the carrot". Nodding is appropriate to the name because someone is definitely asleep at the wheel!!

apparently NF is where good apps go to die. whoevers in charge of Iron Maiden's licensing is asleep at the wheel. these amateurs are a joke.

[BG840]

apparently NF is where good apps go to die. whoevers in charge of Iron Maiden's licensing is asleep at the wheel. these amateurs are a joke.

From the mouth of the man that broke it all. I second that sentiment sir! It was and could've been a really cool game.

[Silentknight]

Maybe these fuckin clowns should sell a talisman that removes bugs!!!

[BG840]

Maybe these fuckin clowns should sell a talisman that removes bugs!!!

Damn sure would buy a set of those!!!

[Monte47]

She's balanced the way she is now and she's far from op.... She dies easily in the arena and she steals from one target only. But she's a good toon regardless (she's the reason I'm able to win most arena attacks) and she's easy to get (dropped 3 times) , not everyone is lucky with getting good toons. Nerfing her in every update is not making sense to me. I keep losing interest in this game.

Yeah, I'm a creature of habit. Been playing this a year, because it's the game I play, am used to it, and enjoy it. I also want to support Sparton and Kaz, as it's nice they've been so open here. That said, there is no new content, after almost a year, and it makes it a grind.

The PvP is so much fun. However, you can't use your troopers to get them their points, and the constant changes in players to make it easy, is making it as boring as farming. If you could move around skill shards, the nerfs wouldn't seem such a drag. I've spent probably $300 on this game or more, and that's crazy for what you get at this point.

Gotta build up my Transformers team to fill in the gap.

[Silentknight]

Gotta build up my Transformers team to fill in the gap.

U still coming?

[Monte47]

U still coming?

Yes, had unexpected company for a week, I'll be free starting Monday to try new things 😂. Though, at this point, lol, I'm going to be too behind you guys.

[Silentknight]

Yes, had unexpected company for a week, I'll be free starting Monday to try new things 😂. Though, at this point, lol, I'm going to be too behind you guys.

Doesn't matter! We're all at different levels. Hit us up!

[Ian]

Maybe these fuckin clowns should sell a talisman that removes bugs!!!

LOL

Actually I could use an immunity set on my phone too, so that my team doesn't keep getting nerfed to fuck leave MCR alone!

Really have lost the will to keep playing this week.

[Monte47]

Doesn't matter! We're all at different levels. Hit us up!

Will do, next week for sure. Looks really fun.

[Nicko]

When are you coming over to Transformers? lol

Hah! More Maiden fan than gamer - this game just takes advantage of my OCD tendencies. But if nothing changes by the fall - and there's no reason to be here - you may see me there...

[Lulero]

I own a MCR but didn't shard her, because I feared that nerf. Not saying it was deserved though. Actually I'd be curious to see the stats on toons, attack and defense wise, for top 50 or so "PvP" players. Pretty sure MCR ranks low at the moment. She's still scary however, if my opponent can get 6 power on the next turn I will most likely try hard to kill her.

...

No need to read me further.

Anyway my point being I'm scared of sharding toons because of those adjustments. Sure, some were/are needed, but since we have "80% off talisman packs" and the like, let's talk about the price of a skill shard. About $20 more or less? So (usually bad) toons requiring 5 shards cost $100 (or that much worth of time) to max? And we don't get the option to move those when that particular toon is "adjusted"? Is it a programming issue or a money one? Told you, you didn't need to read this. On my end, sorry I couldn't resist.

[Silentknight]

Hah! More Maiden fan than gamer - this game just takes advantage of my OCD tendencies. But if nothing changes by the fall - and there's no reason to be here - you may see me there...

Check it out bud! ♡2 have ya!

[Silentknight]

Will do, next week for sure. Looks really fun.

It is! In game chat & bug free!!! Bring that Nicko guy with ya! And anyone else 4 that matter.

[Monte47]

It is! In game chat & bug free!!! Bring that Nicko guy with ya! And anyone else 4 that matter.

Maybe Homem and Askora will play. They were my first buds here. Would be fun to cross platforms! But for now, whisky and pizza will rule the evening lol

[Askora]

Maybe Homem and Askora will play. They were my first buds here. Would be fun to cross platforms! But for now, whisky and pizza will rule the evening lol

It won't load on my old phone and on my tablet I get scrambled graphics. I've tried it a couple of times. May have to see if I can find an emulator that works with it.

[Monte47]

It won't load on my old phone and on my tablet I get scrambled graphics. I've tried it a couple of times. May have to see if I can find an emulator that works with it.

I played the tutorial and did a couple of levels. Seems a fun filler until we have new content here. Tho, I have OCD, and need to get you guys your points lol, haven't had time to do both.

[LandCrusher70]

LOL they make an event to get the NBOL and then nerf him (cannot really say, what I think about NF, this would surely get me a ban).

This is asinine! I fully sharded mine.
3216
I'm not laughing out loud....

[Zapathusara]

Trying to be short:

I don't see NB being a problem with the 100% remove. In fact, I like that. Less RNG during the matches.MCR are in the same train. I can accept a 90% chance, tho.

And Vision's Take, make at least a +10% change. Not an user, but this eddie do nothing but support the team. 45% is honest.

All this hate puts buffs in check, so we can have some more awesome buffs/talis without brake the game.

Just my 2 cents.

[Browno]

I think vamp ed will get buffed pretty much in his damage :)

[surfingwithdje]

I'm OK with some adjustements: for example Belzebub really need a buff, and Wrath's remove beneficial effects skill is actually too overpowered...
But why change the skills of characters like newborn of light or blue CR? That introduce more RNG in the game and it's not good at all :/
They are powerfull characters but it's possible to manage with them when you are facing them (at the difference of Wrath who can destroy all your team without let you any chances)

[Tridimensionale]

I'm OK with some adjustements: for example Belzebub really need a buff, and Wrath's remove beneficial effects skill is actually too overpowered...
But why change the skills of characters like newborn of light or blue CR? That introduce more RNG in the game and it's not good at all :/


Couse they all are heavy removal.. wrath 75% all team, MCR 100% steal ALL EFFECT from 1 toon, NoL can trigger removal 3 times in a turn... when you face one of them in pvp you have to kill him first.. if you nerf wrath ( 5 stars native and eternal toon so it was supposed to be a better toon than the two 4*) then it makes sense nerf the others too.. maybe clairvoyant 80% should be decresed too

Still sucks we all spent many shard on these toon ..

[Ringe666-7406]

And Justin Bieber is one of the most listened-to artists; doesn't mean Maiden fans want to hear him ;)

Count me among those who's CG is collecting dust. The series of nerfs was too severe; his ability to stun doesn't outweigh his pathetic damage.

As opposed to looking at the playerbase as a whole i'd love to know his use among the top 100. When I'm facing the "power players" - those who rank top 50 in PvP (many who contribute to this forum) - I'm more likely to spot a Yeti than a Corrupt General. Perhaps he's used on offense and I'm just not aware of it.

And while you're not tailoring the game to these players - these are people who either have been playing a long time or know the game well - or both. And they don't use him. Why? He's anemic in his current condition - and that's a shame.

The exception - for a brief period - was Ringe. But he combined him with Wrath (who in that situation was removing all buffs with 100% certainty) and an accuracy buff on the stun as well. Smart thinking and a best-case scenario for the General. But three guesses why he's no longer part of Ringe's defense...

Yeah, and that was on def only, and for a couple of days only, while peeps didn't remember they can use harpies :D And on offense, can't remember when I used him last time... 3-4 months ago... killing AoP Siege completely ruined CG and little dignity he had with CC before that.

As for NoL and MCR, I find these nerfs ridiculous (khm insult khm). NoL especially (warrior one), with all those skill shards on his shield. Haven't cast him once, literally. Ok, Wrath is OP (never use him on offense though), but single-hitters, especially with all the shells and immunity and counters around? Come on, give me a break...

[BadTaste]

As for NoL and MCR, I find these nerfs ridiculous (khm insult khm). NoL especially (warrior one), with all those skill shards on his shield. Haven't cast him once, literally. Ok, Wrath is OP (never use him on offense though), but single-hitters, especially with all the shells and immunity and counters around? Come on, give me a break...

I cannot agree more. And by nerfing all the good toons for defence, the defence rate will of course be worse and PVP will be less challenging. Less challenging = boring. I enjoy the challenge of good defence team. Wrath is only OP if AI plays him first and then plays the rest of the toons right to take advantage of situation. If not, I don't consider Wrath OP in PVP. Use him on offence and he will most likely be killed fast when meeting teams with NOL and toons with strike talismans.
The meta of the game needs to change over time, but I don't think changing/modifying existing toons is the way to go. This should be done by introdusing new toons with new skills.

But what i really don't understand is why there is so much focus on nerfing toons when time should be spent on fixing bugs and new content to keep the players.

[HomemLivre]

I think vamp ed will get buffed pretty much in his damage :)

I think he's going to stay in the bench while his "Claim" skill is not fixed, he don't worth without it :/

[Ringe666-7406]

But what i really don't understand is why there is so much focus on nerfing toons when time should be spent on fixing bugs and new content to keep the players.

This :D Also, in Wrath's defense, my def fell to 15%. Yeah, 15% (come and exploit me for easy pts :D) with Wrath in def team... Didn't go over 20% whole week, and 20 was lower threshold for me for three weeks before last. Nothing more to add.

[Nicko]

Mine has Wrath and has been hovering in the high 20s the last few weeks - and has held most of the 'top guns" - but finished last week right at 20% after a big dip last two days. People figure things out.

I don't see these nerfs helping defenses - and as Bad Taste mentioned defenses need all the help they can get. You'll be better off just putting a Death Dog in after this nerf - you won't have to depend on Wrath's timing and statistically he should perform the same removing buffs.

[BadTaste]

Mine has Wrath and has been hovering in the high 20s the last few weeks - and has held most of the 'top guns"
Same here. I ended up at 22% last week. But what I find strange is that my holds are not spread evenly over the week. There are periods where my defence loose all the time and then suddenly I can hold many matches in a row.

[Browno]

I think he's going to stay in the bench while his "Claim" skill is not fixed, he don't worth without it :/
His present basic attack seem to get usable at least and his fury will be stronger.

[HomemLivre]

His present basic attack seem to get usable at least and his fury will be stronger.

Yeah, that looks interesting but we need to se how strong this going to be. The description "massive true damage" in fury skill should be massive indeed.

[Browno]

Yeah, that looks interesting but we need to se how strong this going to be. The description "massive true damage" in fury skill should be massive indeed.
Yeah i have high hopes for his massive damage :)

[HomemLivre]

Yeah i have high hopes for his massive damage :)

Hahaha, hope your right! :p

[Ringe666-7406]

Mine has Wrath and has been hovering in the high 20s the last few weeks - and has held most of the 'top guns" - but finished last week right at 20% after a big dip last two days. People figure things out.

I don't see these nerfs helping defenses - and as Bad Taste mentioned defenses need all the help they can get. You'll be better off just putting a Death Dog in after this nerf - you won't have to depend on Wrath's timing and statistically he should perform the same removing buffs.

Don't mention it, they might read this and nerf DD, and I was just about to shard him :D

[CrazyHarry-2514]

I have a NBoL with counterstrike and explosion talisman. when Counter attacking and having the luck of spreading the explosion effects on all enemies and one of these enemies also can counterstrike (so not the enemy directly hit by my counter), then there is a chance that my NBoL gets counterstriked, which is a bug. Will that be fixed as well?

[Ringe666-7406]

I have a NBoL with counterstrike and explosion talisman. when Counter attacking and having the luch of spreading the explosion effects on all enemies and one of these enemies also can counterstrike, then there is a chance that my NBoL gets counterstriked, which is a bug. Will that befixed as well?

This might be the only legit problem about NoL. Explosives should not be able to be applied on all enemies from single hitter. Or that should be the case with freeze and stun as well.

[Ian]

This might be the only legit problem about NoL. Explosives should not be able to be applied on all enemies from single hitter. Or that should be the case with freeze and stun as well.

There is no problem with Explosive talismans - read the description, they are working as intended. which probably means they'll get nerfed soon.

What's dumb is that hardly anyone had them so whether they were good or not wasn't a problem, then they appeared in store so everyone has them... and its still not really a problem - but Jesus Christ, we have nearly gone 2 months without a major shift in gameplay so better so some "tuning" and maybe explosives will get hit by the bat soon.

[slauki]

please check the purply harpy guys she is hitting for insane amounts of damage out of the blue, some scaling seems to be very off ;-)

[Nicko]

please check the purply harpy guys she is hitting for insane amounts of damage out of the blue, some scaling seems to be very off ;-)

She's been doing 15k with a damage build and 30k after her power move. Definitely a beast

[Aristo4]

She's been doing 15k with a damage build and 30k after her power move. Definitely a beast

She actually did 55k to my Cyborg once, acting first.....:rolleyes:

[Nicko]

She actually did 55k to my Cyborg once, acting first.....:rolleyes:

It's not the developers fault your Cyborgs a pussy ;)...

[Crazypants]

It's not the developers fault your Cyborgs a pussy ;)...

Holy shit man stand down, hes all ready dead! ;)

[kkkreg5]

It's not the developers fault your Cyborgs a pussy ;)...

LMFAO!! That was hilarious...!!

[MoonShadow]

Lots of changes, some good, some bad, some useless... but I still cannot understand why the Gunner Corrupt Rescuer remains untouched?! She's one of the hardest ones to beat in the Arena, when paired with the right toons, of course.
But, even when she's alone, you need at least two toons to beat her, and qucikly as hell, 'cos she revives always the powerful ally next turn... and you're history.
Seriously, it doesn't make any sense.. and nerfing one of her counters, the NoBL, wont' help at all...:(

[Inishmore]

Just some general remarks from my side:

What I don't understand is, why some adjustments for PVP are being made in the direction of „more RNG“. I believe it’s a fair deal if a NBoL has a revenge rate of 50%, 66.6 or 75% but if he strikes I want to be sure he removes the buffs. That is why I have him on my team. Same goes for the opposing team. I can live with a wrath, a prisoner or a MCR on the other team, because I adopt my strategy. If there is a wrath, I will get some “life-spenders” on my team but e.g. no allied soldier since his shield will be removed every single turn. I can do that because I know Wrath is a beast and has a 100% “get-rid-of-anything-that-is-helping-you-rate”. If that rate is being handed over to the RNG-gods, finding a strategy will be so much more difficult, meaning if I take a blocker with me, I probably should have opted for the life-spender and vice versa. Since in every battel RNG is being calculated anew, I can play this team 10 times and lose every single time only due to RNG.

I know getting rid of Wrath and others is difficult for new players, since they lack the characters. But then changes should be made at this end. I personally face great problems if a wrath is paired with a prisoner, since RNG denied me a single heavy hitting character (Nomad, Warrior Flappy Batty, Assassin Golden Son or Warrior Child of the damned) but I know this and therefore try to avoid those defenses. If now not only the question of which character I receive but also if he works the way I want him to or not is further handed over to RNG, this will just make PVP more unpredictable.

On another matter but concerning the same effect, I would really appreciate if the defense could be analysed for their talismans before playing. Depending the amount of certain talismans I will take different toons with me. I know this will lower defense holding rates but the way it is now, it’s simply wasting Sands of War, since I am going to win at the second try. Defending doesn’t cost you anything but attacking is an investment of SoW which costs Ironite and which costs $$$. Oh there is the reason why not.

[slauki]

Just some general remarks from my side:

What I don't understand is, why some adjustments for PVP are being made in the direction of „more RNG“. I believe it’s a fair deal if a NBoL has a revenge rate of 50%, 66.6 or 75% but if he strikes I want to be sure he removes the buffs. That is why I have him on my team. Same goes for the opposing team. I can live with a wrath, a prisoner or a MCR on the other team, because I adopt my strategy. If there is a wrath, I will get some “life-spenders” on my team but e.g. no allied soldier since his shield will be removed every single turn. I can do that because I know Wrath is a beast and has a 100% “get-rid-of-anything-that-is-helping-you-rate”. If that rate is being handed over to the RNG-gods, finding a strategy will be so much more difficult, meaning if I take a blocker with me, I probably should have opted for the life-spender and vice versa. Since in every battel RNG is being calculated anew, I can play this team 10 times and lose every single time only due to RNG.


yeah fully agree more RNG makes the strategical part less important, and the game in total less attractive, at least for me, that's what i really dislike. i would rather see changes in the revenge % of the nobls insted of the buff removals since this will make the game more unpredictible as you said. otoh if the enemy go first and nobl revenges and strips 3-4 toons, this is aprolly too much and it's not an uncommon scenario.

solutions for this:

1. let nobl only revenge when he is attacked directly
2. let him just remove buffs the first time of revenge

and it's really questionable why there was a red nobl event shortly when he is getting nerfed now. i mean many people put resources in the game to get him, then sharded him and now he is getting a nerf? seriously, then it's very understandable that people get frustrated and leave the game. i would really reconsider this marketing praxis,that simply makes no sense if you want to keep a happy player base...but if you want to trick the customers, that's the way to go though ;)

[konstifik]

These tunings are going great, aren't they?

April tuning - MCR is buffed with increased triggering chances for both moves
May tuning - MCR is nerfed by increased power cost
July tuning - MCR is nerfed by decreased triggering chances for basic move

There have been no other character tunings in between these three, so literally, a character that was buffed in one tuning was then nerfed in the upcoming two.



Would you please just introduce removable skill shards already?

[Ringe666-7406]

Lots of changes, some good, some bad, some useless... but I still cannot understand why the Gunner Corrupt Rescuer remains untouched?! She's one of the hardest ones to beat in the Arena, when paired with the right toons, of course.
But, even when she's alone, you need at least two toons to beat her, and qucikly as hell, 'cos she revives always the powerful ally next turn... and you're history.
Seriously, it doesn't make any sense.. and nerfing one of her counters, the NoBL, wont' help at all...:(

Nicely said. But maybe you (and I) should build a better defense, than all will be fine :D:rolleyes: Or put some 500 bucks in game to try to get Prisoner (we'll hardly get him even with that).

[zdm-1083]

Any news of way to play multiple trooper at once?
Or an automatic way of playing PvE?

This is critical from my point of view.

Today we have a so time consuming game that is not rewarding due to RNG.
Fun remains (for me) for PvP but PvE is braindead thing now (reaching certain level)
Moreover PvE took me almost all day connected to be able to do 50 troopers, that's insane.

[PerthEddie]

Moreover PvE took me almost all day connected to be able to do 50 troopers, that's insane.

I am just playing Shadow of the Wicker Man now on AK Madness to burn through Troopers as fast as I can. You can normally play one game of that in about 20 seconds so it doesn't take long to play all Troopers. I can do that, play a few PvP battles to get towards my goal of 850 coins/week and then I can park this game for the day and play another one that I am enjoying a hell of a lot more than this one right now :-/

[PerthEddie]

These tunings are going great, aren't they?

April tuning - MCR is buffed with increased triggering chances for both moves
May tuning - MCR is nerfed by increased power cost
July tuning - MCR is nerfed by decreased triggering chances for basic move

There have been no other character tunings in between these three, so literally, a character that was buffed in one tuning was then nerfed in the upcoming two.



Would you please just introduce removable skill shards already?

If I remember right they buffed her to try and encourage people to use her. People are using her now and she is a pain in the arse so she gets nerfed. Agree with removable skill shards but for nerfed characters

[R1ck]

Well, not everyone will be a fan of it, but we just released a promotion in the store for the ability to buy some special talisman packs which include a whole slew of rare and useful talismans, so you can check that out.

We are looking at other ways we can reintroduce them in a limited fashion via other methods, too, since even once BNW is out, they'll be damn rare to grind for.



I would not call that a promotion when talismans should be gotten for free, it is taken advantage of those who don't have them and make them pay a high amount of money for a couple of usefull talismans.
Why to make such a big deal with immunity and shell talismans? They are a key component for teams in PVP and they should be not hard to get, not even make people pay. That is causing an unfair contest for those who don't have them right now.

Also another unethical move by your team is to promote an event with NBoL as price, you incite people to spend their resources on him and you will Nerf him.

Unfortunately this coming update is kind of disappointing for most people.

[slauki]

I would not call that a promotion when talismans should be gotten for free, it is taken advantage of those who don't have them and make them pay a high amount of money for a couple of usefull talismans.
Why to make such a big deal with immunity and shell talismans? They are a key component for teams in PVP and they should be not hard to get, not even make people pay. That is causing an unfair contest for those who don't have them right now.

Also another unethical move by your team is to promote an event with NBoL as price, you incite people to spend their resources on him and you will Nerf him.

Unfortunately this coming update is kind of disappointing for most people.

couldn't say it better man. it's selling food to a starving man. really dislike this approach, as mentioned before. hope they will learn from it next time. it's no coincidence that the most hardcore guys are leaving right now or swiching to another game...

many things were very good in the past like sacrifice, fragments and the new regular events. but this one feels like a dirty business move. i really appreciate the hard work and the communication guys but this is simply not okay and a slap in the face for many players, and this wasn't too hard to forsee....

[MoonShadow]

Nicely said. But maybe you (and I) should build a better defense, than all will be fine :D:rolleyes: Or put some 500 bucks in game to try to get Prisoner (we'll hardly get him even with that).I can't compare my "Kindergarten Level Defense" with yours, as I barely made into top 100 and, when I get there, I leave in a blitz... but, still, if I had 500 bucks to spend, I'd rather prefer to spend them on a sunny beach, not on a RNG game....:o

[Ringe666-7406]

I can't compare my "Kindergarten Level Defense" with yours, as I barely made into top 100 and, when I get there, I leave in a blitz... but, still, if I had 500 bucks to spend, I'd rather prefer to spend them on a sunny beach, not on a RNG game....:o

Ah, my irony maiden power move worked too good. Point is, whenever we get to nerfs/buffs etc. we get "advice" to "build a better defense" :D I myself never spent a dime, where I live it would almost be like throwing precious cash away.

Anyway, still not too late to cancel at least some nerfs. But then again why, peasanrs can't even riot properly any more

[MoonShadow]

Ah, my irony maiden power move worked too good. Point is, whenever we get to nerfs/buffs etc. we get "advice" to "build a better defense" :D I myself never spent a dime, where I live it would almost be like throwing precious cash away.Well, I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of people that are willing to spend some cash in mobile games, even on this particular one, despite that the prices are way to high for what you can get.


Anyway, still not too late to cancel at least some nerfs. But then again why, peasanrs can't even riot properly any moreI don't think they will, all it's a part of a bigger plan, which we are unable to see it yet... :D

[Liebhild]

If RNG would be RNG.

That shit they are doing is far away from being random.

[Shaolin85london]

If RNG would be RNG.

That shit they are doing is far away from being random.
Maybe due it's piloted by someone?

May be online poker not so fair, tricked and manipulated as well as LOTB rng?
Someone who can tell me what actually devs did of really useful for our players so far...I bet no one has the right answer. Guess why.

[Saigrim]

I quit posting long ago. Realized I was just negative most of the time, so I thought it best to keep quiet. Now I just hop on here to see if I'm alone in my thinking, and nine out of ten times, I am not. All I can offer at this point guys is to quit spending until you are rewarded first. I went five months without dropping a dime once I decided I was finished spending until I nabbed Cyborg. Finally, he dropped. I was happy, and so I dropped $50 or so on some packs to say thank you. Did it again after I got a Prisoner. Now my spending is on hold till I get Eternity Eddie or Clairvoyant. Simple as that.

In the meantime, run Troopers, PVP with the sands you get normally, horde Ironite and iron coins, and never buy souls. (Except event souls) They are for the most part junk.

Speaking of Eternity and Clairvoyant, why the hell are shards on a time limit basis? If you've earned the coins you should get to spend them on shards as you go. You'd have a hell of a lot more PVP activity.

Ah well. My point was, I have more money for you NF, but I expect rewards for it. Simple as that. And your store and sell prices? Lol! I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. Do you guys take yourself seriously when you set those prices?

[Patrice-1201]

Speaking of Eternity and Clairvoyant, why the hell are shards on a time limit basis? If you've earned the coins you should get to spend them on shards as you go. You'd have a hell of a lot more PVP activity.


That's a hell of a good suggestion!

[DIEDD]

Speaking of Eternity and Clairvoyant, why the hell are shards on a time limit basis? If you've earned the coins you should get to spend them on shards as you go. You'd have a hell of a lot more PVP activity.

This would be a good change, I say it as someone who does not play pvp many times.

[Mariner-1212]

Maybe due it's piloted by someone?

May be online poker not so fair, tricked and manipulated as well as LOTB rng?
Someone who can tell me what actually devs did of really useful for our players so far...I bet no one has the right answer. Guess why.

There was that one time where the devs created the game... I thought that was pretty useful!

[zdm-1083]

I am just playing Shadow of the Wicker Man now on AK Madness to burn through Troopers as fast as I can. You can normally play one game of that in about 20 seconds so it doesn't take long to play all Troopers. I can do that, play a few PvP battles to get towards my goal of 850 coins/week and then I can park this game for the day and play another one that I am enjoying a hell of a lot more than this one right now :-/

Well, as I also want to level some toon/eddie I'm playing powerslave and game of death.
But may be I should go as you...

[Chaosego888]

I quit posting long ago. Realized I was just negative most of the time, so I thought it best to keep quiet. Now I just hop on here to see if I'm alone in my thinking, and nine out of ten times, I am not. All I can offer at this point guys is to quit spending until you are rewarded first. I went five months without dropping a dime once I decided I was finished spending until I nabbed Cyborg. Finally, he dropped. I was happy, and so I dropped $50 or so on some packs to say thank you. Did it again after I got a Prisoner. Now my spending is on hold till I get Eternity Eddie or Clairvoyant. Simple as that.

In the meantime, run Troopers, PVP with the sands you get normally, horde Ironite and iron coins, and never buy souls. (Except event souls) They are for the most part junk.

Speaking of Eternity and Clairvoyant, why the hell are shards on a time limit basis? If you've earned the coins you should get to spend them on shards as you go. You'd have a hell of a lot more PVP activity.

Ah well. My point was, I have more money for you NF, but I expect rewards for it. Simple as that. And your store and sell prices? Lol! I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. Do you guys take yourself seriously when you set those prices?
Great ideas... If we could all take this approach, maybe things would change. Hell, we might even get Brave New World & Night City!

[Shaolin85london]

There was that one time where the devs created the game... I thought that was pretty useful!
When the game was run by RoadHouse was definitely better than now.

[Mizrael]

it's selling food to a starving man. really dislike this approach, as mentioned before. hope they will learn from it next time. it's no coincidence that the most hardcore guys are leaving right now or swiching to another game...

Well,Slauki, i thought this old strategy was clear to the both of us:
NF (or anyone pulling the strings) doesn't give a Flying dunk about the fanboys,haters,hardcore players,veterans or any other one of us. There exists only "a paying customer" in their vocabulary.

Looking at it from a marketing perspective-hardcore players are a burden...
-they have everything,hence they don't spend money.
Just like someone on these forums talked about talisman prices: it's easier to sell 10 for 5$ than 1 for 50$.
1 starving noob spends more money than 10 HC players...and there are 100x more noobs than HC players. you just need to starve them right.

so why bother with HC players and their constant ranting about the state of this game?! they don't bring $$$$

[Sparton_LOTB]

While I appreciate that a lot of people would like to hear about other fixes and improvements for the next update, we are still working on the core of that update, so I do not have any specifics to share about that yet (things that have been resolved fixed may have knock-ons that require us to pull it out, or things we may want to fix may not be fixed yet, but could be by the time the update ships). My responses will primarily focus on the preliminary tuning notes in this thread.




[Aces High Eddie Tuning?]

We haven't done any tuning to Aces High Eddie for this pass because we want to take more time to figure out how to best adjust his skills. Kaz has told me he's "on the list along with Run to the Hills Eddie for some improvements next time."


As for the General... I didn't say that he wasn't useful in some situations. He is (and shouldn't he be? Kinda seems like a no-brainer, for a 5*). Are you honestly going to tell me though that his damage output seems fine to you for a 5*, especially his basic attack? And how does lots of people using him change the fact that he does 3k damage AoE after 14 shards? You advertise this guy, man! He used to be a star, and you nerfed him twice for the stun... with as much immunity as is in play these days, wouldn't it make sense to restore some of his damage? I have a feeling most players are behind slauki and I on this one... especially if as many are using him as you say. :cool:

5 star characters should not unilaterally hit like trucks, because then the volume of damage isn't a meaningful differenciator between other 5 stars.

The Corrupt General has high stun chance with an AoE basic, and in a meta which includes a lot of status removal, the data bears out that this is sufficiently powerful. His lower damage is an important consideration for team building.


-The only reason I leveled Burning Mummy Dog to 100 was for the chance to Mark using his power skill. Why is this being changed, especially when so few characters have a chance to mark? Shouldn't more characters be given the mark skill instead of reducing the number of characters who can mark? Makes it tough to find allies for rainmaker/vampire hunter.
-Will more characters be given the doom or seal skills? Doom is especially rare which makes synergizing with mystic eddie hard.
[...]
-Will there be more characters added who have attacks that scale with either DEF or MR? Viking Eddie in particular has MR charge and no allies that have MR scaling attacks (unless you count possessed hourglass, good luck using that one in PvP)

I prodded Kaz for his thoughts specifically, and he relayed this:


The Mummy Dogs were changed to smooth out the early game for new players and to provide more general utility for players. Mark is a more specific and mid-to-late game effect. That being said, we will make Mark more available on some ally characters in the future.
Yes. Also Brave New World features the Zone Eater Talisman Set, which has a chance to cast AOE Doom
Yes, there are more characters that will have DEF and MR Charge.



As opposed to looking at the playerbase as a whole i'd love to know his use among the top 100. When I'm facing the "power players" - those who rank top 50 in PvP (many who contribute to this forum) - I'm more likely to spot a Yeti than a Corrupt General. Perhaps he's used on offense and I'm just not aware of it.

He's not popular on defense, we know that, but that leads to a perception of a lack of use more than anything.

I'll need more time to work with our programmers to do queries that'll give us something more refined to looking at just the top 100 or whatever, but we need to be very careful with that, because while that is important, it would be problematic to tune something to see "acceptable" usage within the top 100 that then plagues everything below it. We'd just see the Prisoner issue all over again, but for the silent majority.


Questions:
• If you’re working on the Magus CotD, would you please look at its Blizzard Shield? I do not believe there is any way its freezing at the 30% stated rate. On offence in PvP, my experience is that it’s much lower.
• Why nerf the Warrior & Assassin NBoL?
• If you’re working on the Wickerman, is there any chance you’ll be showing love to the poor Wickerman Eddie?


Looking at the data, it looks like it should be 30%. It seems like the skill description isn't clear with how the freezing rate occurs, though, and that the freezing chance only happens when the shield explodes as the duration runs out.
This was brought up by Kaz before when people were realizing that the high damage and high removal rate of Wrath was a bit nuts (which also brought up the subject of why use characters like Visions Eddie when high damage + high removal rate characters like the Newborns exist), but basically we want to have stronger-damaging characters not have super high (or guaranteed) beneficial effect removal/stealing, unless that is their main or only selling point. The Newborns of Light fall into the category of having many selling points, so we didn't want to take removal away from them, but felt that guaranteed is just too much.
Wickerman Eddie is another character with a deceptively high attack usage/win rate (even if we only account for people using him at 5 star, so not counting early players at all). I don't want to get into too many details, but there's definitely some interesting things you can do with this Eddie that other characters wish they could do.



I have a NBoL with counterstrike and explosion talisman. when Counter attacking and having the luck of spreading the explosion effects on all enemies and one of these enemies also can counterstrike (so not the enemy directly hit by my counter), then there is a chance that my NBoL gets counterstriked, which is a bug. Will that be fixed as well?

Well, the general rule is that revenges/counters should not be able to be revenged/countered (partially for balance reasons, and partially to ensure we don't get into infinite loop/combat hang situations), so I'll pass this along to our QA to double check. If this is still bugged in the next release, I don't think we'll have time to fix it for that next update, but we'll have it in our system for a subsequent one. Thanks for the info.

[scott-5496]

Like others I am not thrilled by much of this tuning update. If things are broken that makes sense to fix. But nerfs are painful if shards have been spent on neutered toons.

So why no hit on Gunner CR? Is she not the OP pain in the ass toon?

I keep playing but my interest and commitment is waining. We do need some proper new content.

There seems to be little positive feedback on this thread but I do get that there are likely thousand playing who are not on the board so maybe most players are indeed ok with what goes on?

[gmac]

Well,

Took a quick look at the notes, kind of like it, and as same as all other patches, don't really care, I just wish we could rearrange our skill shards.

Oh, and get the bugs fixed!!!

MCR nerfed? Just wish it steals GCR on first try (don't know if that is fixed or not) NB nerf? Wish It did not revenge a different toon sometimes... Prisoner passive fixed yet? SSD counter loop? The list would be long...

Of course I agree with everybody else, game needs (or needed) new stuff asap, shame on those talis deals... Very frustrating.

Btw I have 85k iron coins I can't use... way to repay a loyal player.

To be honest I liked a lot the Eddie event, NB event and sparton 500, I get better stability than before too, but this do not compensate the lack of transparency regarding new content, absurd changes and prices at store, infinite bugs, no new in game features (like in game chat), unavailability of key toons and so on.

Sparton, Kaz, this is not directed to you, I like that you (used) to talk to us. Please tell NF management this game is dying. We, as players and fans of the band, deserve a better game. And the band deserves it too.

Cheers
gmac

[Peppoah]

Hi Sparton,
Is it really so hard to show the defense increase of Iron and stone talismans in the stats? It's well known since when, that it doesn't show? I first read about it in November, I think and the post was old then.

What's the use of three green talisman spots on Beelzebub? To give him blind talismans? One green spot would be enough in my opinion.
The same is with AOS, since the last update. What's the use of the yellow spot? He doesn't deal with special. The blue harpy had the yellow spot, which was interesting and you changed it to blue???

Thank you for letting us know the changes you plan, so I can leave my talismans, where I think, they're good.

[JJJ428]

Are the devs aware that roulette is causing the opponents counter strike to activate?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Are the devs aware that roulette is causing the opponents counter strike to activate?

I've seen a report of that, but we tried to reproduce that and could not make that happen. Without more information to the teams/situation that can make that happen, we cannot make a fix.

[Monte47]

I've seen a report of that, but we tried to reproduce that and could not make that happen. Without more information to the teams/situation that can make that happen, we cannot make a fix.

Please don't nerf MCR. It's becoming increasingly more disappointing to Shard characters. She got buffed, she's more difficult to fight for some, now she's going to be scaled back. Thing is, though, if the thought is to make it better for new players, then leave her. She is a fairly common drop, that way they have a boon in their team. Idk. Who cares what I think, but it doesn't follow for me.

[Silentknight]

I've seen a report of that, but we tried to reproduce that and could not make that happen. Without more information to the teams/situation that can make that happen, we cannot make a fix.

Have had Vision's equilibrium do the same. Not always & way less than counterstrike procs. 3 or 4 times in a few months.

[slauki]

i had a game freeze like many others in exact this situation regardless of the team:

3225

i killed the two dogs of war and the enemy was aboout too attack i belive. saw many photos of these with differerent team compositions in exact the same situations so far.
maybe this can help. to solve the buttons disappear bug

and i have a theory about one reason for maclo.

i think this happends when two people finish your trooper almost simultaneously. then the badges have to be uploaded from two different sources to the same account, and i belive that causes the crash.
had this when i played my trooper with my 2nd accout and played my 2nd account trooper with the main account and finished at the same time.

maybe you can pass this along sparton.

and 3rd idea: how abour a pvp warning when entering the battle with less than 3 troopers? misclicked yesterday and went to the battle and got screwed ofc. i think many people have this every once in a while. would be cool to have some kind of protection against that

btw: just wanted to mention it: the recent criticism is not personal guys, i just want to give honest feedback about how i perceive the marketing politics, the changes and the state of the game overall. we all want this game to be better for all, but the last few steps are going in the wrong direction i belive.


EDIT:

i browsed facebook and i found something interesting on the disappearing bug, can you guess it? one mofo who causes this should be obvious.


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[90mphyorker]

I agree with the MCR nerf. In a game based around RNG no character should have a 100% chance on any skill. 100% chance to steal a beneficial skill (after only 4 Skill Shards) is too much. What it is being changed to seems reasonable to me. Though I have no idea why it was made ao high in the first place.

[Ian]

I agree with the MCR nerf. In a game based around RNG no character should have a 100% chance on any skill. 100% chance to steal a beneficial skill (after only 4 Skill Shards) is too much. What it is being changed to seems reasonable to me. Though I have no idea why it was made ao high in the first place.

More RNG is not a good thing, it displaces skill. MCR is not overpowered, she is easy to kill but annoying, but the same could be said of her Gunner cousin (now that Titan shield doesn't instantly redrawn when removed...). If people want something completely random, play roulette.

[Askora]

More RNG is not a good thing, it displaces skill. MCR is not overpowered, she is easy to kill but annoying, but the same could be said of her Gunner cousin (now that Titan shield doesn't instantly redrawn when removed...). If people want something completely random, play roulette.

I agree that more RNG isn't good. I think NBoL and MCR are fine considering a lot of the other toons. I still have issues with GCR and that titan shield. It gets stolen and she instantly replaces it. Prisoner blocks her passive and she still puts up her titan shield. It gets removed, and guess what, she instantly replaces it. Sometimes it works like it should, but not often.

[Kardas]

I've been away for a bit so I haven't really read through the entire thread well, but here are my thoughts so far:

Nice seeing the improvements for Wicker Man and Fear of the Dark Ed. Both seem to be kind of forgotten PVP characters.
Also nice seeing Vampire Hunter get his basic attack replaced. Will make giving him Talismans way easier, and boost his attack power a bit.

I have mixed feelings about the nerfs to MCR and the Warrior/Assassin Newborns. On the one hand, their nerfs will make it easier for defenses because of less chance to take away those crucial Talisman effects. On the other hand, this will introduce even more RNG into PVP, which I'm not sure is a good thing. Nothing sucks as bad as losing a fight because the coinflips were not in your favor. I've lost against a 4 Sentinel team while having 3 Warriors on mine because the wrong people got Blinded, Taunted, or Stunned at the wrong times.
Besides, I really enjoyed using the characters. Their guaranteed buff removal gave a very strategic feel to it all. Your Newborn/MCR is like a surgical scalpel which you use the crack open your opponent's team methodically. Or, well, not anymore I guess.

If I'm not mistaken there was also a discussion on Corrupt General earlier on in the thread and the only thing I want to add is that in my eyes, CG is a Skill Gate Character. This being that he is deadly against players in the lower ranks, but for people who know his tricks (this being the higher ranks), he is way lower on the threat list compared to characters like Wrath, Prisoner, or GCR (personal examples here). Those Immunity Talismans also make him harder to use in said higher ranks.

Also, could you not have waited with the Newborn event till after the planned nerf? Like really? That would have been way nicer.

EDIT: As for the Talisman packs, I did consider the Crusher Pack but the inclusion of Guardian and Paralysis Talismans feels like a way to drive up the price for little reason. Which is disappointing. The Unyielding pack has it even worse IMO, since a fair number of those Talismans (Void, Blind) are easily farmable.

[The Educated fool]

5 star characters should not unilaterally hit like trucks, because then the volume of damage isn't a meaningful differenciator between other 5 stars.

The Corrupt General has high stun chance with an AoE basic, and in a meta which includes a lot of status removal, the data bears out that this is sufficiently powerful. His lower damage is an important consideration for team building.

Not all 5* characters should hit like trucks, I agree... but surely none should hit like wilted flowers either? Seriously... actual numbers here... 1.5 to 2k max on his basic, without affinity, with all of his shards... this is not merely not hitting like a truck. This is embarrassing, stun potential or not.

Corrupt General is the fourth latest boss character in the game it is possible to draw (as we know), and drawing him is (or definitely was in the past, anyway) considered a significant event to most players. He shouldn't hit like Wrath or Beelzebub, for sure, but he should definitely hit as hard, comparatively (AoE vs single-hit), as the Alliance General... who, far from having nothing else going for him, you yourself once said was right on the cusp of being overpowered. Surely 5k AoE, for example, would still be a far cry from "hitting like a truck"? Ultimately, I am no one in the scheme of things to suggest anything... but I'm interested enough in seeing how you will counter this logic to present it to you nonetheless. :cool:

I also thank you for your replies to, and continued consideration for your players: this luxury remains something that you deserve proper kudos for providing, in my humble opinion, and I hereby therefore acknowledge and express it. :cool:

[Witkacy]

I agree with the MCR nerf. In a game based around RNG no character should have a 100% chance on any skill. 100% chance to steal a beneficial skill (after only 4 Skill Shards) is too much. What it is being changed to seems reasonable to me. Though I have no idea why it was made ao high in the first place.

90mphyorker :)

Despite of being happy owner of MCR I'll try to be fair with your opinion... Not agree with the idea of nerfing her that bad - I mean - 65% fully sharded... 80-75% would be acceptable (if so) but 65% is way too low...

1. Take a look at the Alliance Gereral and his ''Command'' skill: The guy has the chance to steal fury and power from targets with 80% successful rate while sharded... Sure thing more skillshards needed, but still... Nobody says (I think) that he's bloody overpowered with that thing and thus should be nerfed right away...

2. The game is NOT based around RNG - unless you speak for (Repetitiveness, Nerfing, Grinding)... Certain skills the characters are having are GRANTED so I assume working all the time with 100% success, and where is the place for RNG then?

3. Speaking of sharding skill - how to compare ''Sweep'' (4 Shrds) MCR has - deal magic damage to single target, 100% chance to steal beneficial effects with ''Mute'' (4 Shrds) The Green Harpy has: deal TRUE damage to ALL enemies, 30% chance to silence enemies for 1 turn (while sharded) and damage dealt increases based on enemy max hp...

So nevertheless the Harpy hits like wrecking ball your ENTIRE team, making a serious threat - it seems that tiny blue gal is the one who being overpowered and that's why is needed to break some nails of hers...

Is this REALLY needed? I ask you... And what's the point of such move behind the scene? Introducing new talismans later on available in the store and some could have benefits of those using ''Sweep'' instead of buying them? :p

Cheers,

W

[Sparton_LOTB]

and i have a theory about one reason for maclo.

i think this happends when two people finish your trooper almost simultaneously. then the badges have to be uploaded from two different sources to the same account, and i belive that causes the crash.
had this when i played my trooper with my 2nd accout and played my 2nd account trooper with the main account and finished at the same time.

Hm... interesting theory. I'll pass that along for sure.


and 3rd idea: how abour a pvp warning when entering the battle with less than 3 troopers? misclicked yesterday and went to the battle and got screwed ofc. i think many people have this every once in a while. would be cool to have some kind of protection against that

Huh, I think I've only done that to myself once, but you're right, a warning there would be nice. I'll toss that into our system.


btw: just wanted to mention it: the recent criticism is not personal guys, i just want to give honest feedback about how i perceive the marketing politics, the changes and the state of the game overall. we all want this game to be better for all, but the last few steps are going in the wrong direction i belive.

No worries mate, I and many of the team understand and appreciate the candid criticism (so long as it remains constructive).


i browsed facebook and i found something interesting on the disappearing bug, can you guess it? one mofo who causes this should be obvious.

Ah, it looks like we do have a fix for a cleanse at start of turn sometimes causing a hang (Pharaoh Dog King, The Clairvoyant, Visions Eddie), so that will be fixed in the next update. I'll make sure that's clarified in the patch notes; that bug was more recently confirmed by our team, and I missed ensuring it was in the patch notes.


Not all 5* characters should hit like trucks, I agree... but surely none should hit like wilted flowers either? Seriously... actual numbers here... 1.5 to 2k max on his basic, without affinity, with all of his shards... this is not merely not hitting like a truck. This is embarrassing, stun potential or not.

Corrupt General is the fourth latest boss character in the game it is possible to draw (as we know), and drawing him is (or definitely was in the past, anyway) considered a significant event to most players. He shouldn't hit like Wrath or Beelzebub, for sure, but he should definitely hit as hard, comparatively (AoE vs single-hit), as the Alliance General... who, far from having nothing else going for him, you yourself once said was right on the cusp of being overpowered. Surely 5k AoE, for example, would still be a far cry from "hitting like a truck"? Ultimately, I am no one in the scheme of things to suggest anything... but I'm interested enough in seeing how you will counter this logic to present it to you nonetheless. :cool:

5k would be way too much, though. There's a very short list of characters who are above the 4-6k AoE area for a basic attack (assuming 1-3 green talismans for PVP survivability), and we definitely do not want the Corrupt General to be doing even "average" AoE basic damage considering the utility of 100% MR Down and 35% chance to Stun.

Many characters will deal average damage, some will deal more, and some will deal less. Corrupt General, due to the unparalleled ability to AoE Stun and MR Down with his basic, on top of the only AoE Seal skill and a Fury which is essentially "delete one character of choice", does less than average on his basic.


I also thank you for your replies to, and continued consideration for your players: this luxury remains something that you deserve proper kudos for providing, in my humble opinion, and I hereby therefore acknowledge and express it. :cool:

The acknowledgement continues to be appreciated, for sure. I definitely appreciate and have been at least somewhat swayed with some resistance in this thread... but now I just need to convince Kaz if further changes will happen :p

[Ringe666-7406]

I agree that more RNG isn't good. I think NBoL and MCR are fine considering a lot of the other toons. I still have issues with GCR and that titan shield. It gets stolen and she instantly replaces it. Prisoner blocks her passive and she still puts up her titan shield. It gets removed, and guess what, she instantly replaces it. Sometimes it works like it should, but not often.

Thanks, dude, for putting this out nicely.
Please devs, read this and reconsider NoLs and MCR nerfs. Last two major updates were a bingo, don't throw that effort away... GCR is still op, a bit at least, don't take our weapons against her from us, they ars not perfect anyway.

[Ringe666-7406]

Hm... interesting theory. I'll pass that along for sure.

Don't waste time on that. I had numerous crashes last night while playing without troopers. I farm Powerslave and it happens mostly on first wave (once on last, Horus, never in between), mostly when kill has happened, and mostly with Eddie's basic skills (Aces High's and Educated Fool's SoL's present moves), though it happened with other AH's skills, and once more today with Rocket Dog's basic, if I remember well also when he was about to kill PDK. Hope this helps.

[Askora]

I wonder why SSD doesn't get a nerf. 55% to taunt, decent true aoe damage. Completely debilitates the opposing team most of the time. Funny how that isn't OP, yet the removing beneficial effects from one toon is. I've had PvP battles where I went first and made one attack with one toon and then watch until the battle is over. There's also my argument about counterstrike vs void talismans.

If PvP is going to be nothing more than flip a coin to decide who wins, then maybe make it where we can just put in the number of PvP battles we want to fight and push go. Then tell us how many we won. :D

[Mariner-1212]

I have a very specific instance that always causes the game to fail...

On Android: When tapping the screen for the power move (*not the 3-tap) I have sometimes gone too far to the side and tapped the "back" button that samsung provides on the phones. This has caused a stutter of pausing/unpausing the game repeatedly, and everytime it guarantees that the top gameplay elements (play/pause, speed and settings) will disappear and make it impossible to finish.

It also occurs if you tap the settings icon repeatedly. You'll see everything disappear, even if auto-farming. When this happens, your team will finish the match... but it will stall at the end when trying to load up your "Victory" screen.

[Crazypants]

I have a very specific instance that always causes the game to fail...

On Android: When tapping the screen for the power move (*not the 3-tap) I have sometimes gone too far to the side and tapped the "back" button that samsung provides on the phones. This has caused a stutter of pausing/unpausing the game repeatedly, and everytime it guarantees that the top gameplay elements (play/pause, speed and settings) will disappear and make it impossible to finish.

It also occurs if you tap the settings icon repeatedly. You'll see everything disappear, even if auto-farming. When this happens, your team will finish the match... but it will stall at the end when trying to load up your "Victory" screen.

Can confirm. Has happened a few times on my back up Samsung phone.

[MrFreeze]

The acknowledgement continues to be appreciated, for sure. I definitely appreciate and have been at least somewhat swayed with some resistance in this thread... but now I just need to convince Kaz if further changes will happen :p

Go Kaz!


https://youtu.be/mlErbfDDdu8

[Sparton_LOTB]

I have a very specific instance that always causes the game to fail...

On Android: When tapping the screen for the power move (*not the 3-tap) I have sometimes gone too far to the side and tapped the "back" button that samsung provides on the phones. This has caused a stutter of pausing/unpausing the game repeatedly, and everytime it guarantees that the top gameplay elements (play/pause, speed and settings) will disappear and make it impossible to finish.

It also occurs if you tap the settings icon repeatedly. You'll see everything disappear, even if auto-farming. When this happens, your team will finish the match... but it will stall at the end when trying to load up your "Victory" screen.


Can confirm. Has happened a few times on my back up Samsung phone.

Silly Android software buttons.

I've passed that along to our QA to investigate further. Probably some sensible thing we wanted to do with that in case a call came up probably shouldn't do that for certain OS button uses.

[The Educated fool]

5k would be way too much, though. There's a very short list of characters who are above the 4-6k AoE area for a basic attack (assuming 1-3 green talismans for PVP survivability), and we definitely do not want the Corrupt General to be doing even "average" AoE basic damage considering the utility of 100% MR Down and 35% chance to Stun.

Many characters will deal average damage, some will deal more, and some will deal less. Corrupt General, due to the unparalleled ability to AoE Stun and MR Down with his basic, on top of the only AoE Seal skill and a Fury which is essentially "delete one character of choice", does less than average on his basic.

Ah, but good Sparton, there's the rub! I don't mean that he does 1.5-2k max sharded without affinity with 3 green talismans... I mean he does that (and consistently) with one! :cool: And there's no way, I think, anyone would voluntarily consider putting him in the arena with less than two... and Shells at that... If not 5k, surely 3-3.5 (with 5 blue talismans) would seem more reasonable? He doesn't need to annihilate everyone he hits, to be sure, but dude... I don't know how to say this, but people are laughing at him! :p

[Browno]

My biggest gripe with corrupt general is that he dies too easy to make use of. I believe that if 1 blue talisman slot were changed to green he would be much more usable in pvp. That way people can use him as intended, utility with some survivability. And i would be fine with less damage if he survive to make use of his skills.

[Mariner-1212]

If PvP is going to be nothing more than flip a coin to decide who wins, then maybe make it where we can just put in the number of PvP battles we want to fight and push go. Then tell us how many we won. :D

Here's a thought on something that might improve PVP...

The option to set a defensive move order.

When it comes my turn in the game, it checks to see how much power I have. Then it runs down the list and hits the first item it’s able to hit. If I don’t have enough power to execute the first item, it tries the second item. And so on, trying from the top of the list each time (and removing moves from players that have already been used).

3233

[Witkacy]

Here's a thought on something that might improve PVP...

The option to set a defensive move order.

When it comes my turn in the game, it checks to see how much power I have. Then it runs down the list and hits the first item it’s able to hit. If I don’t have enough power to execute the first item, it tries the second item. And so on, trying from the top of the list each time (and removing moves from players that have already been used).

3233

Mariner :)

That would be fantastic! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Mr.Maiden/Emoticons/edhorns.gif

[Sparton_LOTB]

Ah, but good Sparton, there's the rub! I don't mean that he does 1.5-2k max sharded without affinity with 3 green talismans... I mean he does that (and consistently) with one! :cool: And there's no way, I think, anyone would voluntarily consider putting him in the arena with less than two... and Shells at that... If not 5k, surely 3-3.5 (with 5 blue talismans) would seem more reasonable? He doesn't need to annihilate everyone he hits, to be sure, but dude... I don't know how to say this, but people are laughing at him! :p

Kaz did some tests with 6 Holy's, and he was already doing 3.5k (or 5k to Warriors). If you assume one or two is being swapped with greens, then that brings it probably to closer to 3k neutral, so it's already in line with your suggestion at that point. The only reason it would do substantially less than that is against high MR targets, against Sentinels, or when the General has 3 green talismans, which should surprise no one to do far less at that point.


My biggest gripe with corrupt general is that he dies too easy to make use of. I believe that if 1 blue talisman slot were changed to green he would be much more usable in pvp. That way people can use him as intended, utility with some survivability. And i would be fine with less damage if he survive to make use of his skills.

I'm not a big fan of just putting 4 or more green talismans onto every character that can fit them. Obviously we have some non-Sentinel characters with one or more green talisman slots because we want that to be an option, but we don't want the Corrupt General to be especially tanky.


Here's a thought on something that might improve PVP...

The option to set a defensive move order.

When it comes my turn in the game, it checks to see how much power I have. Then it runs down the list and hits the first item it’s able to hit. If I don’t have enough power to execute the first item, it tries the second item. And so on, trying from the top of the list each time (and removing moves from players that have already been used).

This is definitely a cool idea; reminds me a bit of the gambit system from Final Fantasy XII. However, there's a couple things to keep in mind with this approach:


This approach loses all situational awareness that the current AI has. Yes, it's easy to make fun of the AI for doing something stupid, but it knows to do things like Cleanse if you have lots of debuffs, or heal if you're low HP, or not to use your Endure skill if you just used it last turn, etc.
A completely predictive defense could arguably be easier to defeat, not harder. While our current measures that try to enforce some degree of not fighting the same person over and over will still have you see the same person after a few dozen battles in your attack list, if you know how someone's defense will act, you can that much more easily know how to counter it. Or if you want to make your defense less predictable, you need to constantly maintain and adjust your defense team's AI throughout the week, every week ad nauseum.
While I absolutely love the idea of more players (hell, more of the general populous) getting their hands into what is basically entry-level AI scripting, this kind of thing is going to be baffling to a lot of people, and makes it so that if they can't grok it, they'll be at even more of a disadvantage when being stuck with the default "poor man's" AI.


While there's definitely aspects of this that I like (and we may try to implement something like this in the future), unfortunately, I'm really leery of the risks and potential bugs that could arise from that level of customization.

[Ian]

Here's a thought on something that might improve PVP...

The option to set a defensive move order.

When it comes my turn in the game, it checks to see how much power I have. Then it runs down the list and hits the first item it’s able to hit. If I don’t have enough power to execute the first item, it tries the second item. And so on, trying from the top of the list each time (and removing moves from players that have already been used).

3233

It might be a step in the right direction but only a small step - e.g. you'll still have to rely on the AI targeting sensibly with single hit characters, and there are so many varied teams an attacker can bring, that for it to be useful you would need some very in-depth scripting. I would bet only a handful of committed players would have the time and inclination to use it if it's as complex as it would need to be, therefore it's likely to be massive time sink for little benefit. The majority of us probably want time spent on tidying bugs and finishing the PvE content first.

[JJJ428]

I think I would be happy with AI being smart enough to not attack invisible or invincible characters unless they have an ability that debuffs.

[Askora]

Two things that would probably help the defense immensely in pvp, probably wouldn't be too hard to implement.

#1 - Probably best if this one were implemented when there are far fewer bugs plaguing the game. Quit showing the attacker my talisman setup. It makes it much easier for the attacker to identify which toon poses the greatest threat based on talismans. You'd still need to show the buffs that are applied, so some would be obvious, but for the ones that don't apply a buff you'd only find out after that toon attacked and it triggered.

#2 - This one might be easier and shouldn't keep people from being able to tell if something is a bug or not. Don't show what toons I have on defense. When the attacker goes to the battle screen, show them something like a relative strength for defense instead of what toons I have on defense. They'll find out what they have to fight once they go into battle. I know it was mentioned that NF is working on being able to show what team your defense faced, but that will always be after the battle is over. Offenses and defenses are not always the same. So, a revenge becomes a much greater risk and tailoring an offense to a particular defense can only be done after you've battled them at least once. Then switching up defenses makes a lot of sense because you don't want people to always know what you have.

Nice part about these is there is no scripting, only changes to the display. I think it would make pvp a lot more challenging.

[Demoonchild]

Just wanted to give my vote on FIX the Gunner CR Passive Shield(the thing is broken guys c'mon!!).
Is soooo, but SO unfair that even with 3 characters (with no removal skills) you just can't kill the f'n b$%tch, and in the next round, voila!!! she revives GRE which revives everyone with his fury and you lost a match just because the f'n shield is broken.....
I also support the idea of give CG some action, after immunity talismans, the poor general is just collecting dust in the bench, he can't stunt, he can't deal decent damage, he can't even survive 2 hits from a Nomad which is counter affinity, so please!!! dont tell me that he cannot hit hardest just because you dont want to, and leave a Nomad or a Harpy dealing 18k in one hit, 4k AOE would be ok since the green harpy who also silence and cnnot be stunned, taunted, frozzen or raped can hit aoe for 7k.
Also like any idea that make defensive teams act a little less retard that usual, as someone else wrote before, I will be happy just if the mofos stop attackin' invisible or healing when there's no reason...

...Finally, RELEASE BNW for God's SAKE!!!

[EnricoPalazzo]

My two cents for the nerf on MCR and the Newborns:
Why not limit the steal/removal of beneficial effects so that you cannot steal or remove if the opposing toon has immunity?
You would not need to nerf and still have a way to counter the threat.
This behaviour was listed as a bug (I think before the May update), but it actually played quite well.
Also, I agree with most in here: nerfing the NBOL immediately after the event to make it available for everyone is a bad joke.

[konstifik]

This is definitely a cool idea; reminds me a bit of the gambit system from Final Fantasy XII. However, there's a couple things to keep in mind with this approach:


This approach loses all situational awareness that the current AI has. Yes, it's easy to make fun of the AI for doing something stupid, but it knows to do things like Cleanse if you have lots of debuffs, or heal if you're low HP, or not to use your Endure skill if you just used it last turn, etc.
A completely predictive defense could arguably be easier to defeat, not harder. While our current measures that try to enforce some degree of not fighting the same person over and over will still have you see the same person after a few dozen battles in your attack list, if you know how someone's defense will act, you can that much more easily know how to counter it. Or if you want to make your defense less predictable, you need to constantly maintain and adjust your defense team's AI throughout the week, every week ad nauseum.
While I absolutely love the idea of more players (hell, more of the general populous) getting their hands into what is basically entry-level AI scripting, this kind of thing is going to be baffling to a lot of people, and makes it so that if they can't grok it, they'll be at even more of a disadvantage when being stuck with the default "poor man's" AI.


While there's definitely aspects of this that I like (and we may try to implement something like this in the future), unfortunately, I'm really leery of the risks and potential bugs that could arise from that level of customization.


While it might be best to leave this out of PvP, something similar would be great for autoplay in PvE. Would be great to forbid my Assassin Golden Son from casting Endure instead of attacking and telling my Nomad that he shouldn't use Mirage if there is only one enemy left, and so on and so forth.

[konstifik]

To be a little more constructive about the MCR nerf, I think the worst part about is that she was just buffed just two tunings ago and with that tuning she turned out to be a character that was very worthwile to invest 8 skill shards in. As a player, you should be able to expect that a character that was buffed won't be nerfed in the two very next tunings and thus feel a little safer in your skill shard investment. Players will always be upset when characters they invested in gets nerfed, but it hurts even more when it's on a character we shouldn't reasonably expect a nerf for (what happened to those "suspect"-threads by the way?). It feels a bit like you tricked us into spending skill shards on a character to be honest.

Again, all this would be easier to stomach if there was some way to remove skill shards.

[DaveMurray]

So i finally found some time and read the update notes and all the replies.
I only got 3 things to say:
-Stop the nerfs and fix the bugs!
-Return all the skillshards from nerfed characters immediately or make it like a one time thing to remove all skillshards from toons and we can use it when we want. I am bored of sharding toons and see them getting nerfed 10-30 days l8r.
-Why can't you guys do smaller updates? I need to wait for one more month for this ridiculously OP toon(Wrath) to get nerfed? So you are basically telling me that i have to endure 1 more month of taunt/revive fest in pvp. Really businesslike..

[slauki]

Two things that would probably help the defense immensely in pvp, probably wouldn't be too hard to implement.

#1 - Probably best if this one were implemented when there are far fewer bugs plaguing the game. Quit showing the attacker my talisman setup. It makes it much easier for the attacker to identify which toon poses the greatest threat based on talismans. You'd still need to show the buffs that are applied, so some would be obvious, but for the ones that don't apply a buff you'd only find out after that toon attacked and it triggered.

#2 - This one might be easier and shouldn't keep people from being able to tell if something is a bug or not. Don't show what toons I have on defense. When the attacker goes to the battle screen, show them something like a relative strength for defense instead of what toons I have on defense. They'll find out what they have to fight once they go into battle. I know it was mentioned that NF is working on being able to show what team your defense faced, but that will always be after the battle is over. Offenses and defenses are not always the same. So, a revenge becomes a much greater risk and tailoring an offense to a particular defense can only be done after you've battled them at least once. Then switching up defenses makes a lot of sense because you don't want people to always know what you have.

Nice part about these is there is no scripting, only changes to the display. I think it would make pvp a lot more challenging.

not a fan of those ideas, because it would make strategy less important. you cannot go in in the dark and setup a teams vs unknown opponents. this would make the fight unpredictable and we would need even more time to finish the fights. i think we have to live with defenses between 5% and 25%.


My two cents for the nerf on MCR and the Newborns:
Why not limit the steal/removal of beneficial effects so that you cannot steal or remove if the opposing toon has immunity?
You would not need to nerf and still have a way to counter the threat.
This behaviour was listed as a bug (I think before the May update), but it actually played quite well.
Also, I agree with most in here: nerfing the NBOL immediately after the event to make it available for everyone is a bad joke.

i like the idea very much maybe this would be a great compromise. because i dislike the game being more rng dependent. if we want full RNG we can go to the casino and loose
if we want some strategy we need things like ensured buffremovel from ONE char (not aoe like wrath). so i think it would be cool if immunity could prevent you from stealing/removing for one round. blue CR didn't steal from chars with immunity some time ago and actually i think this was a good system...


While it might be best to leave this out of PvP, something similar would be great for autoplay in PvE. Would be great to forbid my Assassin Golden Son from casting Endure instead of attacking and telling my Nomad that he shouldn't use Mirage if there is only one enemy left, and so on and so forth.

agree something like this would be great for PVE. maybe just a set order of acting would be great for each stage or a deny skill checkbox would be nice so that red nobl doesn't use his useless skill for example

[Askora]

not a fan of those ideas, because it would make strategy less important. you cannot go in in the dark and setup a teams vs unknown opponents. this would make the fight unpredictable and we would need even more time to finish the fights. i think we have to live with defenses between 5% and 25%.

I have to disagree about it making strategy less important, I think it makes strategy extremely important. It requires a more balanced offense since you don't know what you'll be facing. We already face that with defense, and that's really the only place real strategy needs to be used. Battles probably would take longer, but then overall points would probably be lower, so it would balance out.

Your words, "you cannot go in the dark and set up a team vs. unknown opponents." Yet, that's exactly what we have to do with our defense. Why not give that same advantage to defense? Then the strategy becomes more intelligence vs. AI.

Could make it to where it changes at a certain rank. Below 250 in rank (as in ranks 1-250) and you lose the advantage of seeing the defense before you attack.

[angelkelly]

I have to disagree about it making strategy less important, I think it makes strategy extremely important. It requires a more balanced offense since you don't know what you'll be facing. We already face that with defense, and that's really the only place real strategy needs to be used. Battles probably would take longer, but then overall points would probably be lower, so it would balance out.

Your words, "you cannot go in the dark and set up a team vs. unknown opponents." Yet, that's exactly what we have to do with our defense. Why not give that same advantage to defense? Then the strategy becomes more intelligence vs. AI.

Could make it to where it changes at a certain rank. Below 250 in rank (as in ranks 1-250) and you lose the advantage of seeing the defense before you attack.

The whole reason why some people like myself even participate in the arena is for the iron coins. Yet your idea defeats the whole purpose of doing just that.

[IceManFerrar]

Very good points, all of you. I would like to summarize some of the key points for Sparton/Kaz to take note:

- Immunity should prevent your buffs from being stolen/taken/nullified, including that from Wrath, NBoL, Visions, MCR, Wickerdog King, etc. Else the whiole point of Immunity is defeated, and is a PITA when facing Visions, SSD, and Harpy teams. They can be beaten, but it is stupid and painful

- If the Immunity suggestion above is implemented, then that will help the GCR against NBoL and MCR, in which case you would not have to nerf the two, and would also balance out the teams using GCR, since they would need overall team Immunity or Immunity Talismans on GCR. Right now some teams with GCR are extremely OP and unfair to the rest of us non-GCR mortals

- Nerfing NBoL and MCR is ridiculous if you do not nerf GCR...else she becomes extremely OP again. I can't understand why you would nerf NBoL and MCR without then nerfing GCR (maybe she should only cast Titan Shield every 2nd/alternate round, and maybe her power cost should be increased to 7); NBoL and MCR are pretty much the only two useful opponents to GCR (Angel of Pain, Death Dog are ok opponents, but not that useful in PvP)

I hope you guys take our suggestions into consideration. If these tuning updates are implemented and both of my counters against the GCR are neutered, then I may as well quit the game. For players such as myself without Immunity or many Shell Talismans (I only have two sets of Shells which I purchased during the NBoL event), and having invested skill Shards in maxing NBoL and MCR, the game then becomes unplayable...it will be between the haves and the have-nots!

[Witkacy]

Good afternoon all :)

Today's tale will be about how David (myself) defeated The Goliath and despite that I have won... I've lost due to ''lost connection with the server (APMA3)... I think the story is somewhat linked with planned ''adjustments'' as our Sparton used to call them (correct me if I am wrong, ok?)... Let's start from the begining though... Yesterday's night I dare to say I had the most tough and longsome battle in the arena so far I guess...

The opponents' team:

Mummy Eddie (armed with Shell talis, I believe)
Green SSD (Counterstrike & Invisiblity)
The Nomad (Counterstrike & Life talis)
GCR (usual stuff, I think)

Myself:

Viking Eddie (common available talis)
Green SSD (as above)
MCR (as above)
GCR (as above)

The fate wasn't favorable to me (as pretty much always, BTW)... They went first and the hell was unleashed as Mummy started...


I'm not a big fan of just putting 4 or more green talismans onto every character that can fit them...

Opposite to you, dear Sparton I AM... That's my only hope I could be able to fight in the arena a bit longer... and survive... Nevertheless MCR went down first taunted & countered by invisible SSD... Even if I had put 3 greens in her backpack... Sure you can say it was obvious suicide pulling her against 2 sentinels in the team... True, but did just on purpose just because she could be helpful to steal some goodies... Haven't got a chance, to even try at first... As you can see Sparton she's can be pretty easily out of the field... So why the nerf? Leave her be as she is, please...

Nedless to say that in a short while after I left with just GCR, who fought back against outnumbered enemies, refusing to die against all odds, as they've lost only Mummy in the fight... After 3 turns I could finally catch some breath - began to slowly ressurrect the fallen comrades as I had plenty of power points I haven't got the chance to use for some time, and make the battle lasts and lasts...

Eventually the fortune helped me a bit and at some point I was the one with Green SSD who kept distracted the hostile GCR of ressurrecting her friends... In the meantime I've received ingame warning that ''only 3 minutes left''... I had waited till the hostile GCR would be having partially broken shield, used fury of ressurrected Viking - thank you and goodnight, GCR... Hallelujah! But shortly after enormous long loading screen after victory animation I've received a note about APMA3... I know that bugs might be happen... Today checked this one out and it was stated as ''defeat''... Why if I may ask, please - if lost connection with YOUR server and the bug was on your side - why to punish me with defeat, despite that I've won? Why just don't let it be as the fight hasn't happen yet, if something like that will occur in the future?

Some conclusions of my story to consider, please:

1. No need to nerf NCR, really - she can be annoying, but sure not overpowered and easy to wipe out IMHO... (I speak for her, because I use her, yet it could be said about the other chars as well)...
2. As I already said this one somewhere else - I like challenges, but how about make the chances even a bit, please and make all those super power talis available to all, but not as fake ''promotions'' but as usual drop in SL (Talisman horde), even one once a week, instead of those freaking freezing sorcery I am receiving almost daily?
3. Fix the bugs that crashing the game, ie. causing people loosing even if they've won... Totally not cool and I DON'T WANT to loose that way...

Cheers,

W

[Askora]

The whole reason why some people like myself even participate in the arena is for the iron coins. Yet your idea defeats the whole purpose of doing just that.

My primary reason for playing PvP is for iron coins as well. I don't think it would defeat that purpose, it would just make it more challenging. Arena store prices might need to be adjusted if it affects too many people's ability to gain iron coins, but overall I wouldn't think that would change much. It would only make it more of a challenge to compete for top spots.

If someone wanted to strictly farm for iron coins, they could just have a token defense. That way they could stay below the top 250 and always see what they're facing. Those wanting higher ranks would have to work harder to earn it. Maybe the rewards could even be bumped up to make it more worthwhile.

So far, the only real argument against it that I see is it could make it harder to beat the defense. Wow! If that's what people are worried about, why not do away with defense entirely and it can be about who spends the most on Sow. The AI is generally predictable, so you still have that advantage, everyone would just have to use a more balanced team.

[IceManFerrar]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them :)

[Askora]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them :)

I like the coin toss for pve idea.

Could even make it just top 100 have hidden defense. Gives more reason to stay at the top all week.

[Peppoah]

Good afternoon all :)

Today's tale will be about how David (myself) defeated The Goliath and despite that I have won... I've lost due to ''lost connection with the server (APMA3)... I think the story is somewhat linked with planned ''adjustments'' as our Sparton used to call them (correct me if I am wrong, ok?)... Let's start from the begining though... Yesterday's night I dare to say I had the most tough and longsome battle in the arena so far I guess...

The opponents' team:

Mummy Eddie (armed with Shell talis, I believe)
Green SSD (Counterstrike & Invisiblity)
The Nomad (Counterstrike & Life talis)
GCR (usual stuff, I think)

Myself:

Viking Eddie (common available talis)
Green SSD (as above)
MCR (as above)
GCR (as above)

The fate wasn't favorable to me (as pretty much always, BTW)... They went first and the hell was unleashed as Mummy started...



Opposite to you, dear Sparton I AM... That's my only hope I could be able to fight in the arena a bit longer... and survive... Nevertheless MCR went down first taunted & countered by invisible SSD... Even if I had put 3 greens in her backpack... Sure you can say it was obvious suicide pulling her against 2 sentinels in the team... True, but did just on purpose just because she could be helpful to steal some goodies... Haven't got a chance, to even try at first... As you can see Sparton she's can be pretty easily out of the field... So why the nerf? Leave her be as she is, please...

Nedless to say that in a short while after I left with just GCR, who fought back against outnumbered enemies, refusing to die against all odds, as they've lost only Mummy in the fight... After 3 turns I could finally catch some breath - began to slowly ressurrect the fallen comrades as I had plenty of power points I haven't got the chance to use for some time, and make the battle lasts and lasts...

Eventually the fortune helped me a bit and at some point I was the one with Green SSD who kept distracted the hostile GCR of ressurrecting her friends... In the meantime I've received ingame warning that ''only 3 minutes left''... I had waited till the hostile GCR would be having partially broken shield, used fury of ressurrected Viking - thank you and goodnight, GCR... Hallelujah! But shortly after enormous long loading screen after victory animation I've received a note about APMA3... I know that bugs might be happen... Today checked this one out and it was stated as ''defeat''... Why if I may ask, please - if lost connection with YOUR server and the bug was on your side - why to punish me with defeat, despite that I've won? Why just don't let it be as the fight hasn't happen yet, if something like that will occur in the future?

Some conclusions of my story to consider, please:

1. No need to nerf NCR, really - she can be annoying, but sure not overpowered and easy to wipe out IMHO... (I speak for her, because I use her, yet it could be said about the other chars as well)...
2. As I already said this one somewhere else - I like challenges, but how about make the chances even a bit, please and make all those super power talis available to all, but not as fake ''promotions'' but as usual drop in SL (Talisman horde), even one once a week, instead of those freaking freezing sorcery I am receiving almost daily?
3. Fix the bugs that crashing the game, ie. causing people loosing even if they've won... Totally not cool and I DON'T WANT to loose that way...

Cheers,

W

There's one thing that I don't understand. The SSD is Soulless Demon, right? It can't have invisibility and counter talismans, as there are three green slots?
But I know the problem very well when you lose a hard fight just because of APMA. It should be like you wrote as the fight never happened.

[Mariner-1212]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them :)

Maybe there could be a LIVE PVP version, where you actually play against another player in real-time. All matchups would be picked at random, and you'd go in with your team without knowing the other team at all. There would of course be some lag between each device as the server relayed the gameplay to the other player and waited for his responses... but it could be cool. Of course, the level of complaints that it would cause would make it not worth the effort one bit to develop

[slauki]

My primary reason for playing PvP is for iron coins as well. I don't think it would defeat that purpose, it would just make it more challenging. Arena store prices might need to be adjusted if it affects too many people's ability to gain iron coins, but overall I wouldn't think that would change much. It would only make it more of a challenge to compete for top spots.

If someone wanted to strictly farm for iron coins, they could just have a token defense. That way they could stay below the top 250 and always see what they're facing. Those wanting higher ranks would have to work harder to earn it. Maybe the rewards could even be bumped up to make it more worthwhile.

So far, the only real argument against it that I see is it could make it harder to beat the defense. Wow! If that's what people are worried about, why not do away with defense entirely and it can be about who spends the most on Sow. The AI is generally predictable, so you still have that advantage, everyone would just have to use a more balanced team.

there would be another problem i feel. you would have one default team which you would took to every fight. so basicly 4 toons vs unknowns. the real interesting part is adapting to the enemy and choosing a team that will beat him most likely. you would limit yourself and your options a alot which would be very boring soon. or you would write down the defense of the opponent and choose the proper toons against him, which would end in the same result as now only with much more effort. i would create a database for every pvp opoonent for sure and i'm not alone. prolly we would have the first thread 12 hours after the change with many enemies and there defenses :D

[Askora]

there would be another problem i feel. you would have one default team which you would took to every fight. so basicly 4 toons vs unknowns. the real interesting part is adapting to the enemy and choosing a team that will beat him most likely. you would limit yourself and your options a alot which would be very boring soon. or you would write down the defense of the opponent and choose the proper toons against him, which would end in the same result as now only with much more effort. i would create a database for every pvp opoonent for sure and i'm not alone. prolly we would have the first thread 12 hours after the change with many enemies and there defenses :D

Which is why people would learn to rotate their defense frequently. I actually use one primary offense for the most part and I don't think that part makes it boring. I have a few alternates that I plug in from time to time, but one team does most of the work. It gives you incentive to try different combinations to work towards one team that is unbeatable when on offense.

It should be a challenge for ranked positions. I think the fact that the arguments against are because it would make it harder only help to prove that it should be taken as a serious suggestion. Let's give the AI a fair fight.

[angelkelly]

Which is why people would learn to rotate their defense frequently. I actually use one primary offense for the most part and I don't think that part makes it boring. I have a few alternates that I plug in from time to time, but one team does most of the work. It gives you incentive to try different combinations to work towards one team that is unbeatable when on offense.

It should be a challenge for ranked positions. I think the fact that the arguments against are because it would make it harder only help to prove that it should be taken as a serious suggestion. Let's give the AI a fair fight.

Until I hear from top players on this matter my opinion will stay the same.
On another note doesn't that mean more rng and time spent on the game.

[Askora]

Until I hear from top players on this matter my opinion will stay the same.
On another note doesn't that mean more rng and time spent on the game.

A good offense isn't RNG. Just as taking a warrior team against a sentinel team isn't so much strategy as it is common sense. PvP battles might take longer, but overall point totals would probably end up lower so you could probably play less for the same rank.

I'd like some feedback from more top players as well. Some from the devs wouldn't hurt either. Maybe they're waiting for more opinions.

[Sparton_LOTB]

T#1 - [...]Quit showing the attacker my talisman setup. It makes it much easier for the attacker to identify which toon poses the greatest threat based on talismans. You'd still need to show the buffs that are applied, so some would be obvious, but for the ones that don't apply a buff you'd only find out after that toon attacked and it triggered.

#2 - [...] Don't show what toons I have on defense. When the attacker goes to the battle screen, show them something like a relative strength for defense instead of what toons I have on defense. They'll find out what they have to fight once they go into battle.

These are both interesting ideas, and they could certainly work well for some games, but they go against what we want to encourage in our game. We want to reveal enough before the battle that you have a sense for what you're going to fight, while not revealing absolutely everything so you can ensure you have a perfect counter, which is why we expose the characters before battle but not their exact strength/talisman loadouts.

If we tell you very little before battling, you end up just building a "blind attacker" team (ala what skauki pointed out) that you rely on and then have to build backups after that loses, which really just means everyone loses a whole lot more, and sometimes will see that they're going to lose before any character has even taken an action. And yes, there is the option of rotating your defense repeatedly to confound attackers, but suddenly you're making changing your defense more important than actually succeeding at attacks... it's just not the balance of power we want to strike with the Arena.

That said, while it's not part of our aim with the high volume of attacks we expect from engaged players with the Arena, there may be future PVP features that involve a more "blind" attacking in the future, but nothing that is explicitly planned out yet.

Finally, if you want more opinions on the matter, I encourage you to make a thread in the PVP Discussion subforum (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?42-PVP-Discussion). Even if I'm unlikely to post in there, me and Kaz do monitor discussion in that subforum closely, and you'll more likely to get more PVPers weighing in on their thoughts. The discussion on the subject at this point has become quite tangental to the thread subject of preliminary tuning notes.


While it might be best to leave this out of PvP, something similar would be great for autoplay in PvE. Would be great to forbid my Assassin Golden Son from casting Endure instead of attacking and telling my Nomad that he shouldn't use Mirage if there is only one enemy left, and so on and so forth.

Yeah, that's definitely a possibility, but in people can easily get 100% win rates in most PVE locations with decent characters and talismans anyways, so the practical application of that right now isn't too high.

[Chaosego888]

My primary reason for playing PvP is for iron coins as well. I don't think it would defeat that purpose, it would just make it more challenging. Arena store prices might need to be adjusted if it affects too many people's ability to gain iron coins, but overall I wouldn't think that would change much. It would only make it more of a challenge to compete for top spots.

If someone wanted to strictly farm for iron coins, they could just have a token defense. That way they could stay below the top 250 and always see what they're facing. Those wanting higher ranks would have to work harder to earn it. Maybe the rewards could even be bumped up to make it more worthwhile.

So far, the only real argument against it that I see is it could make it harder to beat the defense. Wow! If that's what people are worried about, why not do away with defense entirely and it can be about who spends the most on Sow. The AI is generally predictable, so you still have that advantage, everyone would just have to use a more balanced team.
While I like your idea about going in blind, there is one big problem with it. It would give a huge advantage to players with good memories. I could easily memorize every defense after one battle and would know going in what people are using unless they change defenses frequently which only a few players do. Like Slauki said it would also cause players to just play with one team. I could use one team now and win 93-95%, basically against everything except for the Wrath/Soulless Demon/Angel of Fear/Grim Reaper teams. The same team could beat those teams if it wasn't for the Soulless Demon/Counterstrike bug that eliminates turns and the Angel of Fear with a passive that may trigger after 2 characters are already down, so I had to come up with a seperate team for those. I get into more trouble in this game when I experiment using other characters that seem like they would be better suited for a certain defense than just sticking with a familiar team. I think the nerfing needs to be done with at this point. It would make more sense just to make a lot more characters better than continuously making them worse. I agree with everyone that says we need less RNG, depending on luck just makes you not want to play. Something really needs to be done about the points lost for PvP. The max should be about 8 points. It is impossible to get a defense to hold without taking advantage of some bug. I took a bugged defense out and I have dropped from 16% to 9% but I would rather be at 9% than to get garbage holds

[Askora]

These are both interesting ideas, and they could certainly work well for some games, but they go against what we want to encourage in our game. We want to reveal enough before the battle that you have a sense for what you're going to fight, while not revealing absolutely everything so you can ensure you have a perfect counter, which is why we expose the characters before battle but not their exact strength/talisman loadouts.

If we tell you very little before battling, you end up just building a "blind attacker" team (ala what skauki pointed out) that you rely on and then have to build backups after that loses, which really just means everyone loses a whole lot more, and sometimes will see that they're going to lose before any character has even taken an action. And yes, there is the option of rotating your defense repeatedly to confound attackers, but suddenly you're making changing your defense more important than actually succeeding at attacks... it's just not the balance of power we want to strike with the Arena.

That said, while it's not part of our aim with the high volume of attacks we expect from engaged players with the Arena, there may be future PVP features that involve a more "blind" attacking in the future, but nothing that is explicitly planned out yet.

Finally, if you want more opinions on the matter, I encourage you to make a thread in the PVP Discussion subforum (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/forumdisplay.php?42-PVP-Discussion). Even if I'm unlikely to post in there, me and Kaz do monitor discussion in that subforum closely, and you'll more likely to get more PVPers weighing in on their thoughts. The discussion on the subject at this point has become quite tangental to the thread subject of preliminary tuning notes.

Thanks for the input Sparton. I can start a new thread once I get home. I'd like to copy and paste some of the discussion for and against so that people don't have to bounce between threads. Maybe some variation can be found that fits.

[gmac]

While I like your idea about going in blind, there is one big problem with it. It would give a huge advantage to players with good memories.

Just my perspective on this, not only people with good memory (I don't think have one), but since I play so much and we have constant names on ours lists, come mid Saturday I pretty much know every team by heart.

That is why sometimes I change my deffence on Saturdays, not that I think this makes a difference, maybe a good strategy if you think you really found something unique.

Best
gmac

[Mizrael]

Wow! I'm glad that i can for once agree with Sparton(might be my first time actually)nothing personal mate,we just have a different imagination of the direction that this game should be heading (surprized me, that you've played FF7-a big brownie for that!).

Still just in the first point:
1. you have to play alot more oponents 2x (writing their teams down or memorize them) =less variety of opponents played per session/wasted SoW =more time consuming
2. you lose more battles =less coins
I alread have to sacrifice the legendary soul eveey month to buy fragments and the skill shard.
3. people would be forced to constantly swap defenders to keep def % (the top guys would have to do 1 battle...switch def...battle....def) Lots more time consumed
4. no possibility to cherry pick easy wins when you don't feel like thinking much.

On the other point i have to diss agree. It's not about if you win but HOW FAST you win. so the application is there...

PvE script would save us time. making GOD a 6 move operation, instead of watching your AGS cast endure as the very first move of the battle (kinda just spews all your power out) or Eddies performing long fury animations to kill 1 demon with 1mm HP left.

That would almost feel like having the "instant" button(which i bet 99% of the players dream of having to save them few hours of RL a day.)

And my last comment is about GCR (mentioned by many before me).
You keep headlessly nerfing sympathetic chars left and right, yet you never touch the most obviouse suspect (SSD being the other one).

At least remove healing from her primary attack or the endure from power move!!! with the refresh bug helping her, she can survive a team of 3 heavy hitters and slowly revive the whole team again...AND ENDURE THEM!!! (she is almost like a GRE, AGS and [any random healer] in one)

[Chaosego888]

Just my perspective on this, not only people with good memory (I don't think have one), but since I play so much and we have constant names on ours lists, come mid Saturday I pretty much know every team by heart.

That is why sometimes I change my deffence on Saturdays, not that I think this makes a difference, maybe a good strategy if you think you really found something unique.

Best
gmac
I have tried this some as well, never got any good results from it though. I honestly don't think there is any defense that is going to hold the top 25-50. Maybe once or twice but once they figure it out, never holds them again. It is usually talisman swaps that make more of a difference but that takes too much time to worry with

[Tridimensionale]

Lots of good ideas & a few i really dont like.. but main problem is that every new implementation will bring new bugs/error ecc.. please fix the game as it is now, then we can start talking about the future

[Witkacy]

There's one thing that I don't understand. The SSD is Soulless Demon, right? It can't have invisibility and counter talismans, as there are three green slots?
But I know the problem very well when you lose a hard fight just because of APMA. It should be like you wrote as the fight never happened.

Pepp :)

Sure, it looked strange, yet actually I am quite sure of what I saw, despite the fact everything happen pretty fast... Of course it's not possible as you've pointed qiute right - I think that The Nomad has granted the hostile Green SSD vanishing, as he was build just for couterattack... Only this could've happen that invisible SSD had countered me...
Though the rest of the story remains vaild...

@ Devs: Today's got another 1 (one, uno, un, eins, один etc.) freezing sorcery for 12 SOT in Talisman Horde Secret Location... I mean that's enough, devs! Since now I'll be completely ignoring such fantastic ''deals'' of yours! Thank you for your generosity...

Out of curiosity... Sure I could have been stuffed blue Golden Son, PDK even Storm Eddie with some of these ones to spread the fear at the arena - this would be fitting to Sparton's strategy, but somehow I am NOT willing to try and gave some figures to community...

Cheers,

W

[Sparton_LOTB]

And my last comment is about GCR (mentioned by many before me).
You keep headlessly nerfing sympathetic chars left and right, yet you never touch the most obviouse suspect (SSD being the other one).

The Gunner Corrupt Rescuer is a common discussion point, like any other highly-used, very effective unit. However, she's also a character with an atypically large amount of hard counters. She's commonly discussed, so a search through the forums should find many threads and discussions on the matter. While some of her hardest counters are scheduled to get nerfs with this tuning update, they'll still be very effective against her... and we'd much rather add/improve other units to be as good as her on defense (or be interesting alternatives) than try to bring her down a notch.

As for the Sentinel Soulless Demon, that character has already been discussed to some length (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4743), and while most of the discussion happened around the time where Taunt was much more problematic with Mummy Eddie, the overall sentiment is he's really not that big of a deal, which is why he's stayed unchanged. One of the most common complaints was him Taunting more than he should be (which he's not), and with even more removal/steal beneficial effect options, and more viability/availability of Cleanse buffs (current combat hang bug notwithstanding), he's decided solid, but not overpowered. Angel of Fear continuing to be popular and the rise of strong Warriors like Warrior Newborn of Light and Nomad continue to be a thorn in the Sentinel Soulless Demon's side.

[Ringe666-7406]

Hey Sparton, what's coming with this new current update, except downfall of my 100% attack? -.-

[MrFreeze]

The Gunner Corrupt Rescuer is a common discussion point, like any other highly-used, very effective unit. However, she's also a character with an atypically large amount of hard counters. She's commonly discussed, so a search through the forums should find many threads and discussions on the matter. While some of her hardest counters are scheduled to get nerfs with this tuning update, they'll still be very effective against her... and we'd much rather add/improve other units to be as good as her on defense (or be interesting alternatives) than try to bring her down a notch.

As for the Sentinel Soulless Demon, that character has already been discussed to some length (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4743), and while most of the discussion happened around the time where Taunt was much more problematic with Mummy Eddie, the overall sentiment is he's really not that big of a deal, which is why he's stayed unchanged. One of the most common complaints was him Taunting more than he should be (which he's not), and with even more removal/steal beneficial effect options, and more viability/availability of Cleanse buffs (current combat hang bug notwithstanding), he's decided solid, but not overpowered. Angel of Fear continuing to be popular and the rise of strong Warriors like Warrior Newborn of Light and Nomad continue to be a thorn in the Sentinel Soulless Demon's side.

I think you could substitute MCR and NBoL in your statements instead of GCR and SSD, and they would still be valid. They're less of a problem than GCR, which I agree isn't a problem, and way less of an issue than SSD. Especially SSD with strike talismans. I have no immunity talismans, not buying them, so SSD is my biggest problem. You don't see me calling for nerfs though. With all due respect I think you guys tinker with characters a little too much.

[IceManFerrar]

The servers are down? Is there some kind of update going on at the moment? Strange that Sparton didn't mention anything.

[konstifik]

The Gunner Corrupt Rescuer is a common discussion point, like any other highly-used, very effective unit. However, she's also a character with an atypically large amount of hard counters. She's commonly discussed, so a search through the forums should find many threads and discussions on the matter. While some of her hardest counters are scheduled to get nerfs with this tuning update, they'll still be very effective against her... and we'd much rather add/improve other units to be as good as her on defense (or be interesting alternatives) than try to bring her down a notch.

As for the Sentinel Soulless Demon, that character has already been discussed to some length (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4743), and while most of the discussion happened around the time where Taunt was much more problematic with Mummy Eddie, the overall sentiment is he's really not that big of a deal, which is why he's stayed unchanged. One of the most common complaints was him Taunting more than he should be (which he's not), and with even more removal/steal beneficial effect options, and more viability/availability of Cleanse buffs (current combat hang bug notwithstanding), he's decided solid, but not overpowered. Angel of Fear continuing to be popular and the rise of strong Warriors like Warrior Newborn of Light and Nomad continue to be a thorn in the Sentinel Soulless Demon's side.

I think your points on both characters are incomplete. The main problem with GCR is her bugged Titan Shield, making supposedly hard counters unreliable, which is something you didn't address. And the current problem with SSD is when he is equipped with Strike talismans, and those didn't exist when the discussion you linked too was active. Nerfing stat stealers/destroyers like MCR, Wrath and WNBoL will further enhance this problem (as well as the problem with Strike talismans in general).

[DaveMurray]

The Gunner Corrupt Rescuer is a common discussion point, like any other highly-used, very effective unit. However, she's also a character with an atypically large amount of hard counters. She's commonly discussed, so a search through the forums should find many threads and discussions on the matter. While some of her hardest counters are scheduled to get nerfs with this tuning update, they'll still be very effective against her... and we'd much rather add/improve other units to be as good as her on defense (or be interesting alternatives) than try to bring her down a notch.

As for the Sentinel Soulless Demon, that character has already been discussed to some length (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?4743), and while most of the discussion happened around the time where Taunt was much more problematic with Mummy Eddie, the overall sentiment is he's really not that big of a deal, which is why he's stayed unchanged. One of the most common complaints was him Taunting more than he should be (which he's not), and with even more removal/steal beneficial effect options, and more viability/availability of Cleanse buffs (current combat hang bug notwithstanding), he's decided solid, but not overpowered. Angel of Fear continuing to be popular and the rise of strong Warriors like Warrior Newborn of Light and Nomad continue to be a thorn in the Sentinel Soulless Demon's side.

The problem with SSD is that it still taunts with like 70% proc plus blind/stun with like 50% when equipped with those talismans(defence rates) and let's not forget the strike talis which make him go many times so 100% to taunt. It's even worse than the older taunt problem with Mummy Eddie and SSD now with so many toons that remove buffs.
GCR is just OP and bugged, i really don't get why NF love a few chars and refuse to see the problem with them while others get hammered all the time. Like our problem was the MCR that dies with 1-2 hits..

[Browno]

Well maybe we shall look at it as a few toons get better/worse in pvp and others in pve. All we have focused on this far is their usability in pvp. In pve they are great :)

[Liebhild]

One of the most common complaints was him Taunting more than he should be (which he's not)

You know, that we are talking about LotB? I think you are playing something different.

On offense his taunting rates seem normal, but on defence with that strange probability-bonus SSD taunt almost every time whole teams.


I think lot's of nerfs wouldn't be needed, if the probabilities for offense/defence wouldn't be touched.


Sparton never said how and why the probabilities are modified.

[DaveMurray]

You know, that we are talking about LotB? I think you are playing something different.

On offense his taunting rates seem normal, but on defence with that strange probability-bonus SSD taunt almost every time whole teams.


I think lot's of nerfs wouldn't be needed, if the probabilities for offense/defence wouldn't be touched.


Sparton never said how and why the probabilities are modified.

That bonus probability on defence is what causes many of the problems but they nvr count that when they nerf/buff toons. Even strike talis on defence counter 9/10 attacks and on offence 1/15.

[Mizrael]

These threads should be called "...information" not "...discussion" since nothing ever changed, no matter the reasonings.

But anyway...now that you are on MCRs nerfing, could you have a look at why does her freeze automatically disappear when she dies? it has lost me many battles and i don't think that it's supposed to work that way. at least i have never noticed debuffs disappear once the caster dies....is that intentional or a bug?

[Sparton_LOTB]

I think your points on both characters are incomplete. The main problem with GCR is her bugged Titan Shield, making supposedly hard counters unreliable, which is something you didn't address. And the current problem with SSD is when he is equipped with Strike talismans, and those didn't exist when the discussion you linked too was active. Nerfing stat stealers/destroyers like MCR, Wrath and WNBoL will further enhance this problem (as well as the problem with Strike talismans in general).

The issue with the Titan Shield is indeed a problem, but from what I understand, it only replaces itself in certain scenarios. Obviously that's a bug we want to fix for such a high-profile character, but it's not an easy fix, so it is something we're still working on. The selection of scenarios where it self-replaces is frustrating and can make a match, but it can be worked around, and we're not interested in tuning a character around a bug we plan on fixing.

I've seen some Sentinel Soulless Demons with Strike, and it's an interesting strategy, but again in encourages you as the attacker to get Immunity, buff removal, Accuracy Down, Stun/Freeze, Warriors, not spamming AoE moves, and/or not spamming multi-hit moves, which are all strategies we want to encourage people to utilize for team building. There's many options to deal with him, and bringing just one and making sure he doesn't live a long time usually makes him a trivial bag of HP to work around when he's controlled by the AI.


But anyway...now that you are on MCRs nerfing, could you have a look at why does her freeze automatically disappear when she dies? it has lost me many battles and i don't think that it's supposed to work that way. at least i have never noticed debuffs disappear once the caster dies....is that intentional or a bug?

There is a general issue with Freeze where it falls off in that scenario, for anyone who causes freeze. It is a bug we're intending to fix, but I don't have a timeline.

[Sparton_LOTB]

And I guess somewhat related... it looks like the character tuning (and associated updated) are going live sooner than we expected when I posted the tuning notes. The current maintenance is for that update; I will post full patch notes soon.

[IceManFerrar]

I disagree, Sparton. The SSD with Counterstrikes is definitely bugged...it is the only toon which Counterstrikes a Counterstrike, causing a taunt fest, especially when it is on a defensive team.

The proc rate for its Counterstrike and taunting is extremely high on defense. I have a SSD with that setup, and it does NOT proc so high when I use it on offense. But it is usually my only option when going up against the GRE/Wrath/AoF/SSD teams. You basically have to hold your breath and hope that the other team does not go first, esp. if their Wrath goes first and wipes out all Immunity and buffs.
If you take single hitters like a NBoL with Explosive Talismans, then even if you attack another toon but the Explosives trigger, the SSD taunt fest begins.

There is a reason why the top players are all using that team setup for their defense.

As for the GCR, I disagree on that as well...she is very OP and the MCR cannot steal the Titan Shield on the first try. I usually always have to take my NBoL against the GCR, and now that you guys are nerfing him, I doubt that I will be able to have much success against the GCR teams, so there goes any chance I have of being competitive in PvP.

[Mizrael]

...and we're not interested in tuning a character around a bug we plan on fixing...

No one was asking you ro tune her because of this reason. people only said that this bug adds to her OPness.
but nevermind. i know,i know...tou don't share our concerns about her being OP and there are ways to work around it...

You have a work around for everything OP toons and bugged toons. but if i meet a team of 3-4 such toons i would need a team of 10 specific chars, who only work well for that OP/bugged skill. so much for diversity...

LETS BRACE OURSELVES FOR THE NEXT WAVE OF INCOMING BUGGS!!! :D

[Sparton_LOTB]

The full update patch notes are now live (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?6470).

I'm going to close this thread to avoid parallel discussions in similar threads, but feel free to continue discussion of relevant subjects in the new update discussion thread.

Also, I'll adjust the name of this thread to "June" to prevent confusion.