August 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?8575).

[Amarthir]

Interesting update. I like the Corrupt General buffs. A little upset on the augment changes for talismans but I suppose that it hurts them as much as it hurts me. Other than that, seems alright.

[slauki]

wow looks awesome so far, good balancing and buffing part on the paper i think.

just one question regarding alliance general. Will he steal 1 beneficial effect 100% of the time with an additional chance of 50% to steal a 2nd...this would make him a worthy 5* :)

[Kardas]

Those updates look pretty interesting. Nice seeing Run To The Hills get some love, along with the two Generals.

While I'm slightly sad that GCR's Power Move has had its cost increased, I fully understand it's for the better. Revival and AoE Endure for 6 PWR was perhaps a bit ridiculous. Hopefully she won't be mandatory for PVP now. I didn't expect the buffs to Pharaoh and Gunner Golden Son, but I'm happy for it.

Also good choice for renaming Gunner Pharaoh Dog. It was getting confusing (still feel that way for Sentinel Harpy BTW), and nice that Golden Pharaoh Dog keeps the handy GPD acronym.

Will be very interesting how PVP will be with the Talisman augments fix. Also interesting that the buff remover/stealers crew have been expanded again.

All in all, a good step in the right direction I think.

EDIT: I saw Rainmaker and Vampire Hunter have their Mark Power Move changed. Is this also the case for Assassin Meathead?

[Browno]

So many buffs for rtth :)

[DIEDD]

Interesting changes for RTTH eddie, I just hope the next one is Aces Ed.

[Kaz_LOTB]

just one question regarding alliance general. Will he steal 1 beneficial effect 100% of the time with an additional chance of 50% to steal a 2nd...this would make him a worthy 5* :)

Correct.




EDIT: I saw Rainmaker and Vampire Hunter have their Mark Power Move changed. Is this also the case for Assassin Meathead?

It will apply to any character that uses the Skill "Mark".


Interesting changes for RTTH eddie, I just hope the next one is Aces Ed.

Yep. He's the next Eddie up for a few improvements.

[Lulero]

Very nice update from my perspective.

- I do have RttH maxed.
- Fix to augments/energy talisman sets coming faster than I anticipated.
- Yay for Cyborg being smart again about Scan (I believe that's from my multiple requests).
- I just maxed Death Dog because I couldn't resist, go to the PC and see the upcoming change, awesome.
- Last but not least, quoting Sparton: The next update will include many other bug fixes and improvements not specified here.

And a question regarding augments. Some were out of hand, some worked fine before that fix. Are changes to the affected sets to be expected as well? In particular, void wasn't listed.

[Sparton_LOTB]

And a question regarding augments. Some were out of hand, some worked fine before that fix. Are changes to the affected sets to be expected as well? In particular, void wasn't listed.

Void wasn't explicitly listed, but is nonetheless impacted by the "Fix for Talisman Augments having an increased chance of trigger per hit instead of once per skill". Same thing for other augments that affect the attacker or attacker's team; Invisibility, Cyclone, Penetrating, etc.

[Askora]

Glad to see RTTH getting some love finally. He was my main Eddie through pve and now he just warms the bench, hoping it's enough to make him worthwhile to play.

Glad to see Death Dog getting some attention as well, I've had him since about a month before his skills change. Big question though, is his Damage Charge skill getting fixed as well (it currently disappears from him as soon as he casts it)? Would love to see what he can do with that working properly.

[Blacksteel]

Sparton, could you please make sure that these bugs are looked into?:
http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?8565-Bug-List
Thanks.

[HomemLivre]

Wow, I really appreciate this update so far!

I will take more time to read and think about later, but looks like we will have lots more possibilities!

Tks guys!

[gmac]

Hi Kaz/Sparton

On paper I like it a lot :)

I have an RTTH Eddie full sharded... love him, maybe he'll be back...

Quick questions:
Will Prisoner passive be fixed?
Will AoF passive be fixed?
Pharaoh AI: If you guys can just change enrage to hunt, perfect!
Btw, Entomb fixed as well?
Talisman augment: So, AoE and single hits are the same odds (right?), how about number of hits, does that influence the chances?


Hopping BNW comes along too :)

Cheers
gmac

[Ubajoa]

I like the love for Death dog and alliance general 😀

[Demoonchild]

Great to see love for many chars!!
This looks a nice tuning so far.
Some questions Sparton, about Viking Eddie MR charge, is there a fix for it?? It been months now that it isn't working.
Is there any chance of love for Rainmaker Eddie? His fury isn't great at all, is HP is pretty low... (Please don't answer that his ATK and Magic justify this!! Warrior COTD has more than 2k on ATK and his HP is fine), his Def and MR sucks too, that unfair stats just kill an other way cool character with no reason at all.
Thanks for your kindly response, in advance...

[Sparton_LOTB]

Please keep in mind that the items listed in the preliminary tuning notes are what we have prioritized into the next update. If I don't respond to a question about if X issue is fixed, it's probably because it's just not in the scope for what we think we can handle for the next update.




Big question though, is his Damage Charge skill getting fixed as well (it currently disappears from him as soon as he casts it)? Would love to see what he can do with that working properly.

Huh, it looks like a fix for that may have been stuck in limbo, but one of our QA did verify for me that it is indeed fixed for our next update. I'll make a note to add that to the final patch notes.


Pharaoh AI: If you guys can just change enrage to hunt, perfect!

While certainly some team compositions would want to build around the physical damage pressure that Hunt can enable, Pharaoh Eddie better serves himself and most other teams he would be on by focusing on increasing their Defense against opposing physical attackers (while also increasing Pharaoh Eddie's damage for most of his skills). Right now, we want to make sure the AI better serves a wider array of team compositions where possible.


Talisman augment: So, AoE and single hits are the same odds (right?), how about number of hits, does that influence the chances?

AoE and single target should have the same odds, yes. Same for single-hit and multi-hit; if the Void Augment says it'll have a 35% chance of triggering Void Shields, that'll now be the case for all basic skills, instead of the current issue where things like AoE attacks will have a higher effective chance.


Is there any chance of love for Rainmaker Eddie? His fury isn't great at all, is HP is pretty low... (Please don't answer that his ATK and Magic justify this!! Warrior COTD has more than 2k on ATK and his HP is fine), his Def and MR sucks too, the fury is also not that great... that unfair stats just kill an other way cool character with no reason at all.

Rainmaker Eddie is definitely an unusual character, as he is the starkest example of a "glass cannon" (very high offenses, but very low defenses). However, there will be new talismans you can get from Brave New World will work well to shore up his weaknesses while still playing to his strengths, so I would encourage you to wait and see how he will perform after that feature releases.

It's also worth nothing that stats aren't everything. Rainmaker Eddie is an Assassin that mainly does true damage (but can also do physical and/or magical), which means very few things can be protected against all of his blisteringly-powerful attacks, whereas Warrior Child of the Damned has to worry about the natural damage reduction Magus enemies will have against him, and the Warrior Child also can have problem with high-Defense enemies.

[Demoonchild]

Im definitely looking towards BNW Sparton, I wanna see those new Talismans...

Thanks for your response!

[Lulero]

Void wasn't explicitly listed, but is nonetheless impacted by the "Fix for Talisman Augments having an increased chance of trigger per hit instead of once per skill". Same thing for other augments that affect the attacker or attacker's team; Invisibility, Cyclone, Penetrating, etc.

Expected as much. Best part is it will remove an unfair advantage to multiple target toons versus single target ones.

But what I wanted to know is will those augments stay at the current proc odds?

In some cases the current logic was out of hand, but in others you'd never see those sets on single target toons because of the bad odds.

Don't get me wrong, I very much like that fix!

[Blacksteel]

Sparton, can you confirm on a solution or follow up for any of these bugs reported by the community, seems you have ignored repeated requests for confirmation,
Should we expect these bugs to be here for the long run?.

Undead Rescuer Warrior detour not reflecting damage to enemies and instead trying to apply to team.
Corrupt Rescuer Gunner resucitate applies, seemingly randomly, an invisible Endure buff to the resurrected character and sometimes it doesn't.
A team with no Angel of Fear gets an extra turn (very, very rare).
A team with Angel of Fear gets a character with endure to 0HP but No Kill and gets the extra turn.
Health bars not reporting real HP or bouncing back.
Game wait status - PVP - Just happened vs Lulero at 9:25 (CST), maybe you can check the logs, basically characters just stand there doing nothing and the only option is to forfeit the match.
Corrupt Rescuer Gunner Resucitates prisoner, prisoner then applies the disable passive to it's own team
MCR will not steal GCR's Shield, making her fairly useless against her.
Prisoner is blocking revenge sometimes on NBoL assassin and warrior sometimes even when the Passover aren't blocked

Thread source:
http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?8565-Bug-List

[Sparton_LOTB]

Expected as much. Best part is it will remove an unfair advantage to multiple target toons versus single target ones.

But what I wanted to know is will those augments stay at the current proc odds?

In some cases the current logic was out of hand, but in others you'd never see those sets on single target toons because of the bad odds.

Don't get me wrong, I very much like that fix!

For the most part, the percentage odds that the talismans have is the odds we think will make most sense to have, because yeah, there's obviously some that are overused partially (or entirely) because they occur too often. Other than the adjustments to the Vampiric Talisman, we don't have any other odds changes planned at the moment, but we will appraise usage after the update releases and make adjustments accordingly if certain things are proving still used too much (or could stand to be used a bit more).


Sparton, can you confirm on a solution or follow up for any of these bugs reported by the community, seems you have ignored repeated requests for confirmation,
Should we expect these bugs to be here for the long run?.

As I mentioned at the top of my last post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?8576-August-2017-Tuning-Discussion-PRELIMINARY&p=52176&viewfull=1#post52176), the items listed in the preliminary tuning notes are what we have prioritized into the next update. If I don't respond to a question about if X issue is fixed, it's probably because it's just not in the scope for what we think we can handle for the next update.

I cannot comment on the timeline for fixes that are not scheduled into the next update. We are committed to chipping away at long term combat issues (like what we have done with this update, with the Claim heal fix, the augment over-procing, etc), but what issues will be addressed is considered on a per-update basis.

[Askora]

Glad to hear death dog will finally get his power skill fixed. Been waiting for that one for a while.

[Amarthir]

Will the Corrupt General's fury apply a sheild to everyone or just himself?

[Coletrain]

Loving the preliminary changes. RttH Eddie is a favorite of mine, can't wait to use him even more. Nice to see an update to the warrior/magus harpy power skills, those are currently pretty weak. The generals look to be getting a great buff. And a lot of nice buffs for lesser used characters.

Eagerly awaiting tuning for Aces High Eddie as well as a fix for the Def Charge and Mr Charge skills, but this has the looks of a fun update.

[HomemLivre]

I don't know if anyone noticed that, but the file name from the patch notes image is: BNW_Pre_TuningNotes_Aug_2017_01_s_A

So I think that we will finally get BNW and hope that Final Frontier Planet comes as a bonus to hahaha!

Cheers!

[slauki]

I don't know if anyone noticed that, but the file name from the patch notes image is: BNW_Pre_TuningNotes_Aug_2017_01_s_A

So I think that we will finally get BNW and hope that Final Frontier Planet comes as a bonus to hahaha!

Cheers!

wow smart observation man, that would be awesome. any word on this sparton? :D

[HomemLivre]

wow smart observation man, that would be awesome. any word on this sparton? :D

Hahahaha, tks mate!
The truth can not be denied lol

Jokes aside Im hoping for this Final Frontier bonus but Im happy to finally have the BNW hahaha

[Amarthir]

Hahahaha, tks mate!
The truth can not be denied lol

Jokes aside Im hoping for this Final Frontier bonus but Im happy to finally have the BNW hahaha

Well I'd take this with a grain of salt but since it's not all shadowed out, and in the link to the other site it said "set of dungeons" maybe we will get it 😀

[Blacksteel]

As I mentioned at the top of my last post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?8576-August-2017-Tuning-Discussion-PRELIMINARY&p=52176&viewfull=1#post52176), the items listed in the preliminary tuning notes are what we have prioritized into the next update. If I don't respond to a question about if X issue is fixed, it's probably because it's just not in the scope for what we think we can handle for the next update.

I cannot comment on the timeline for fixes that are not scheduled into the next update. We are committed to chipping away at long term combat issues (like what we have done with this update, with the Claim heal fix, the augment over-procing, etc), but what issues will be addressed is considered on a per-update basis.

Just wanted to confirm that you are aware of these issues.
I like that the changes focus on making more characters relevant, the fix on the Eddies, talismans and the taming of the corrupt rescuer gunner, nice job, thanks.

[DaveMurray]

Seems like an interesting update. I hope the tali fixes will lead to more skill needed for winning a battle in PvP.
I am also glad that after a long time there aren't any nerfs except the GCR which was needed.
Finally the BNW in image title brings me excitement...

One question Sparton, anything being done with the ghosts in PvP?
Edit: Nevermind, just read your answer on PvP section regarding that issue.

[thealchemist]

So with 'fixes' to talismans such as energy and thief, they will steal only 1 point of power with these changes?

[Kaz_LOTB]

So with 'fixes' to talismans such as energy and thief, they will steal only 1 point of power with these changes?

They will steal 3 power with each proc.

-Kaz

[thealchemist]

They will steal 3 power with each proc.

-Kaz

So the fix is getting them to proc at the described 45% chance rate then, instead of the current rate (guessing 100%)?

[Askora]

So the fix is getting them to proc at the described 45% chance rate then, instead of the current rate (guessing 100%)?

What happens right now is that on an AoE attacker they get a chance of proc'ing for each toon hit. So, if you have 4 opponents it has 4 chances to proc. The fix will mean only one chance whether it is an AoE attack or single target attack.

[thealchemist]

What happens right now is that on an AoE attacker they get a chance of proc'ing for each toon hit. So, if you have 4 opponents it has 4 chances to proc. The fix will mean only one chance whether it is an AoE attack or single target attack.

Thats how I read it too but I guess I would like to know what the difference will actually be in terms of power or fury stolen. Trying to get my head around it this early in the AM here probably isn't the wisest thing....

[kkkreg5]

Blabbermouth.net has a blurb about LOTB releasing BMW in August. Screen shots look cool. Possibly 4 characters to take into battle...

[Sparton_LOTB]

Will the Corrupt General's fury apply a sheild to everyone or just himself?

Just himself.


I don't know if anyone noticed that, but the file name from the patch notes image is: BNW_Pre_TuningNotes_Aug_2017_01_s_A


wow smart observation man, that would be awesome. any word on this sparton? :D

I'm uh... gonna claim that was a planned hint. Yeah, that.


Thats how I read it too but I guess I would like to know what the difference will actually be in terms of power or fury stolen. Trying to get my head around it this early in the AM here probably isn't the wisest thing....

They'll still steal a fixed amount based on the talisman (the 3 that Kaz noted above), they'll just only do the steal check once for a set amount, instead of potentially multiple times.

Askora described it right, but as another example, right now if you use an AoE basic with Energy Talismans against 3 enemies, you may steal 0, 3, 6, or 9 Power with that attack (and it's more likely than advertised to steal at least 3 Power (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3+trials+with+a+45%25+chance)); after this update, you'll steal 0 or 3 Power, and the chance of stealing Power will actually be 45% (not potentially more based on the number of enemies hit).

[BonFire]

Hm, I might actually throw some shards on RttH Eddie. Glad to see a nice little buff to Rainmaker.

Talismans still don't list Resistance Talismans and the lack of defense increase. Is that because the glitch still can't be fixed, or is it because they aren't available to everyone so it's a non issue?

[Sparton_LOTB]

Talismans still don't list Resistance Talismans and the lack of defense increase. Is that because the glitch still can't be fixed, or is it because they aren't available to everyone so it's a non issue?

There's a known issue that defense increases from set effects don't display, but the actual stat gain is reflected in the damage equation in combat.

Sadly, we probably won't have a fix for this in time for the next update, but it's something we may prioritize to a subsequent one.

[Bradata]

Honestly, I don't care much what is gonna be changed regarding the characters, all I care is that I see the light at the end of the tunnel and it's a Brave New Light I tell you!
All I can think of is how am I gonna hold it till the release of BNW. So tune away the toons as much as you want, guys, just release BNW along with this upcoming update. :)

[HomemLivre]

I'm uh... gonna claim that was a planned hint. Yeah, that.

Hahaha, we know that! :p

[thealchemist]

They'll still steal a fixed amount based on the talisman (the 3 that Kaz noted above), they'll just only do the steal check once for a set amount, instead of potentially multiple times.

Askora described it right, but as another example, right now if you use an AoE basic with Energy Talismans against 3 enemies, you may steal 0, 3, 6, or 9 Power with that attack (and it's more likely than advertised to steal at least 3 Power (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3+trials+with+a+45%25+chance)); after this update, you'll steal 0 or 3 Power, and the chance of stealing Power will actually be 45% (not potentially more based on the number of enemies hit).

So whether the character is AoE or single target attacker, the amount of power stolen will now be set to the effect, which will be 3. Hmmm I made the rookie mistakes of putting the sets on single target attackers like a NBoL and Dog of War early on in my playing, but now potentially that may actually work out okay...if that indeed is the case.
Thanks for the response Sparton.

I know its not part of this release but I am wondering if the @Dev team know about Mystic Eddie's Dream attack bug? Where on its 2nd hit instead of dealing damage it can potentially give health back. I did make a thread about it but not sure if Devs noticed it...

[Sparton_LOTB]

I know its not part of this release but I am wondering if the @Dev team know about Mystic Eddie's Dream attack bug? Where on its 2nd hit instead of dealing damage it can potentially give health back. I did make a thread about it but not sure if Devs noticed it...

It's actually not healing, it's just that sometimes the first hit of a multi-hit attack updates the HP bar in a way that makes it look like it did way more damage than it's supposed to, then subsequent hits update the HP bar to the correct amounts for those hits. Basically, under the hood the damage is being calculated and applied correctly, just that visual representation is momentarily incorrect.

We do have a potential fix for that in the next update, but I'm not sure how thoroughly tested it is at this point.

[Silentknight]

It's actually not healing, it's just that sometimes the first hit of a multi-hit attack updates the HP bar in a way that makes it look like it did way more damage than it's supposed to, then subsequent hits update the HP bar to the correct amounts for those hits. Basically, under the hood the damage is being calculated and applied correctly, just that visual representation is momentarily incorrect.

We do have a potential fix for that in the next update, but I'm not sure how thoroughly tested it is at this point.

How bout a fix for all the match freezes!!! Only played last hour...3 match freezes! What a fuckin joke! U guys are pathetic!!! C'mon Sparton, pull up my record for the last hour & see how enjoyable it is to play ur bugged to shit game!

[thealchemist]

It's actually not healing, it's just that sometimes the first hit of a multi-hit attack updates the HP bar in a way that makes it look like it did way more damage than it's supposed to, then subsequent hits update the HP bar to the correct amounts for those hits. Basically, under the hood the damage is being calculated and applied correctly, just that visual representation is momentarily incorrect.

We do have a potential fix for that in the next update, but I'm not sure how thoroughly tested it is at this point.

So essentially you are saying while it doesn't look that way, Mystic Eddie's dream attack actually hits like a damp sponge.....nice to know. I hope a buff is around the corner....

[ericgallucci]

I know Rainmaker Eddie was already asked about regarding his stats but what about his skills? His main power move Rain takes 5 power, does less damage than his basic and only has a 50% chance to place up to 2 marks. Vampire Hunter Eddie has stake which takes 3 power and does a lot of true damage while giving 100% critical strike if there is a Mark. Rainmakers crackle basic attack is also worthless when compared to Fervor and I doubt anyone uses it. I know that Vampire Hunter does mixed damage for half his skills and true for the other half, plus claim which does magic, but what is the point of Rainmaker doing mixed with one attack when the rest is true damage, also with the exception being claim. His fury should also be revamped as his basic is so strong that there is really no reason to use it. Again look at all the buffs that go with Vampire Hunters fury plus it does a lot of true damage as well. Also I still think his stats should be looked at as well because though Dusk , Vampire Hunters main basic, does mixed damage, it has insane potential with RNG due to critical strike and extra turn. It doing mixed instead of true damage was the main argument to why it's not all about stats in regards to Rainmaker. Sorry that was long winded but basically I'm asking that Rain, Crackle and Execute should be considered to be either made better or changed to a different move.

[R1ck]

@Devs could you consider also increasing Clairvoyant's power move, as you are doing so with GCR. Thanks

[iPoop]

I'm pretty happy with the preliminary AUG tuning notes. I'm glad to see the dev's focus on bug fixes and balance through buffs and not nerfs.

[Blacksteel]

How bout a fix for all the match freezes!!! Only played last hour...3 match freezes! What a fuckin joke! U guys are pathetic!!! C'mon Sparton, pull up my record for the last hour & see how enjoyable it is to play ur bugged to shit game!

I agree it's very annoying, usually get a freeze a day here, just as a pointer for @Devs it seems to me to me that one occurrence might be related to the resurrecting of characters and application of effects (reflects?) at that time.

[Sag7272]

Love what I'm seeing, maybe for once I'll be lucky with those tunings :)
Can't wait on tallismans adjustments to see the difference it'll make!

... I see an AI adjustment on Cyborg, Rainmaker (Oh poor Rainmaker) would deserve to stop using Crackle all the time, that's his worst move by far (look like a filler to be honest) & he insists on using it all the time for no valuable reason, he's already week enough without having to use this s** move on auto everytime he's let loose... Please..

[Hypnos]

Since the filename says BNW pre-tuning I am gonna assume BNW will be released sometime shortly after this update. Hope we can look forward to a fresh new start to the second year.

As for the rainmaker talk, perhaps someone at headquarters should realise his current infamous ability to apply and consume marks isn't all that awesome or indeed worthy of being a five star character's specialty. :)

[slauki]

Clairvoyant is fine the way she is at least her power move doesn't deal over 20k worth of damage unlike wrath. I guess he deserves a nerf too.

@Dev can you please consider nerfing wrath power move???

Along with SSD he taunts way too much esp considering the amount of strike talisman that will be available soon???
copy and paste from the weekly pvp thread, so the massage can reach someone :)

another thing i would like to discuss:
90% of all good defenses have a specific combo of chars, mostly wrath/ssd combo. the red buzz is also getting very popular these days. all in all i feel the only char who can make a significant difference nowadays is wrath.
i think his powermove is somewhat out of line and his standard damage is a too high with the additional aoe buff removal (his fury sucks for sure). he is the char who makes your defense much more dangerous and who can make your life way easier on offense. the possible speed advantage is huge. all who use him to play LOL or knows how easy he cuts through the levels. if you compare this with other chars you will see a significant difference.
so he is still the toon of the moment, despite the reduced removal chances. that said, some adjustments would be necessary for him imo.

[Tridimensionale]

the red buzz is also getting very popular these days.

red buzz powermove seems to be bugged, very hard to take him down... that s why
not sure how the new fix works for him

[Nicko]

Clairvoyant is fine the way she is at least her power move doesn't deal over 20k worth of damage unlike wrath. I guess he deserves a nerf too.

@Dev can you please consider nerfing wrath power move???

Along with SSD he taunts way too much considering the amount of strike talisman that will be available soon???

Ps. Please reconsider buffing vampire hunter power skill from having a 35% chance to grant an extra turn to 100% chance. It's already hard enough dealing with basic attack. Now you're telling me he will also have the ability to grant extra turns, revive all allies and deal a sick amount of damage. Is crazy......man this dude is a beast.

Sorry for the many edits my writing sucks.

Hey Angel - my VHE is sharded and I'll say the Mark skill does very little damage relative to what he can do. But to mark and then be able to use the Dusk skill 100% assured? I agree with you - that's brutal - instant Prisoner death. Great for those of us who have him - not so much for the have-nots.

As far as Wrath, your estimate is way over for the power move. Even a damage-talismaned version doesn't do that much damage. My Wrath - who needs 3 greens to (maybe) keep him alive for more than a round - does about 9k. Less than Nomads power move - you're likely including the marks - but when testing my defense it's pretty rare they get a perfect hit after that to trigger the marks. But guess it's possible. Of course if he's used on offense a human could more readily take advantage - but recently I've left him off my offense - too many issues triggering SSDs with strikes. I know quite a few who also only use him for defense.

I honestly think Beelze is just as bad. Those burns add up fast - his power move can seal exactly at the wrong time with great damage - and his Fury is beastly.

If they ever did nerf Wrath's power move I would hope they buff his fury. Or better yet - just remove it. It's pathetic and works against him on defense if the AI awards it to him instead of Eddie.

These two Demon brothers are definitely powerful - wish i had a Beelze - have a defense all mapped out already ;)

[Monte47]

Seeing the stuff about Wrath.... why do we want a 100% win rate on attacks? What's the fun and challenge in that? People are putting counter strikes on him, and he's a glass tiger. Even my Shaman Eddie can take him out, and he hits like a wet noodle. I'll never get why we don't want a couple of OP players that are a bonus to actually get. New content, less tweaking of toons for a bit? (I'm grouchy cuz I haven't eaten yet, forgive me.)
Eskiggalu

[Nicko]

Seeing the stuff about Wrath.... why do we want a 100% win rate on attacks? What's the fun and challenge in that? People are putting counter strikes on him, and he's a glass tiger. Even my Shaman Eddie can take him out, and he hits like a wet noodle. I'll never get why we don't want a couple of OP players that are a bonus to actually get. New content, less tweaking of toons for a bit? (I'm grouchy cuz I haven't eaten yet, forgive me.)
Eskiggalu

This.

And I don't mean OP - just really powerful. Remember - if everyone has 97% win on offense - that means everyone has on average 3% Holds on defense...

I do think Wrath can do what no other toon can - which leads to easier crowd control - which is one of the very few ways the AI can win. But those of us in the top 50 face him repeatedly - and do just fine most of the time - the occasional loss happens - and that's not a bad thing. And having him doesn't mean instant win - my defense was 18% last week despite Wrath and an SSD...

[Monte47]

This.

And I don't mean OP - just really powerful. Remember - if everyone has 97% win on offense - that means everyone has on average 3% Holds on defense...

I do think Wrath can do what no other toon can - which leads to easier crowd control - which is one of the very few ways the AI can win. But those of us in the top 50 face him repeatedly - and do just fine most of the time - the occasional loss happens - and that's not a bad thing. And having him doesn't mean instant win - my defense was 18% last week despite Wrath and an SSD...

Yes. Mine was 17%, was holding at 32% before I broke 200 rank. Once I was up in the 100, I don't think it held again before reset; I finished 50. My defense always has Wrath, but more for the benefit of the void Talisman to my defense. He crumbles as quickly as any toon, and when I battle him, he almost never gets his special off.

[Monte47]

Well you have to remember not everyone is in the top 50 like you. So of course you can pretty much kill of any team with what you have vs the rest.

Aside from that there are many other factors that play a major role on why your defense probably isn't holding or not. Considering the amount of bugs we have in the game. So until all that is fix you can't accurately judge rather you're defense is good or not. It's like calling someone a liar without having any factual evidence to dispute their claim. While in this case until all the bugs are squashed your hold rate is pretty much dismissible at this point.

At least I know why my team isnt holding.
#The prisoner

Not to argue, but I think the point... at least my point was, defenses don't hold at high percentages even with Wrath above 300 or so. Hell, I let myself fall to the 800's this week, and still only held between 30 and 60%. Even Gmac gets beat, and you'd think the dude would hold at 100% because his game is so on point.

I am curious, your bug comments... are you speaking to the AI and the use of skills, or crashes?

Cheers
Eskiggalu

[Askora]

I think the talisman fixes will alleviate a lot of the issues with Wrath's damage. I use him on offense because of it, but since energy can be grabbed easily it works. Once the talismans work right, it won't be near as good a strategy. On defense I use him more as a buff remover than anything. You can't count on the defense to get perfect hits, so the power move is good for the base damage but not guaranteed for the follow-up damage. On defense you also have to face that he is a Fury liability and can waste what might be a winning move for the defense because he wants to show off that skill.

I agree with Monte47 and Nicko both. Especially like the comment Monte47 made about people wanting 100% on offense. That was the point I was trying to make when I posted my suggestion (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?6464-Going-) on having to face the top 100 defenses blind. A few people that don't like it, but the truth is you can't have 100% offense and expect much from defense. Which means that currently the game is set up to favor those who spend the most SoW, something that KAZ stated isn't what they wanted. There should be some advantage to spending more SoW, but right now it's basically pay to win. My defense was around 18% or 19% for the week last week. Reality is that it's boosted at the beginning of the week by lower ranked teams attacking me and losing and by the end of the week it's barely holding. It's more likely beginning of the week is 35% to 50% and by the end of the week it's 5% to 10%. Doubtful that'll change.

[R1ck]

Pay to win? Where is the ability and time to be able to be on high ranks? People there make that possible with almost the same toons we all have, that should be respected.

[slauki]

Seeing the stuff about Wrath.... why do we want a 100% win rate on attacks? What's the fun and challenge in that? People are putting counter strikes on him, and he's a glass tiger. Even my Shaman Eddie can take him out, and he hits like a wet noodle. I'll never get why we don't want a couple of OP players that are a bonus to actually get. New content, less tweaking of toons for a bit? (I'm grouchy cuz I haven't eaten yet, forgive me.)
Eskiggalu


I think the talisman fixes will alleviate a lot of the issues with Wrath's damage. I use him on offense because of it, but since energy can be grabbed easily it works. Once the talismans work right, it won't be near as good a strategy. On defense I use him more as a buff remover than anything. You can't count on the defense to get perfect hits, so the power move is good for the base damage but not guaranteed for the follow-up damage. On defense you also have to face that he is a Fury liability and can waste what might be a winning move for the defense because he wants to show off that skill.

I agree with Monte47 and Nicko both. Especially like the comment Monte47 made about people wanting 100% on offense. That was the point I was trying to make when I posted my suggestion (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?6464-Going-) on having to face the top 100 defenses blind. A few people that don't like it, but the truth is you can't have 100% offense and expect much from defense. Which means that currently the game is set up to favor those who spend the most SoW, something that KAZ stated isn't what they wanted. There should be some advantage to spending more SoW, but right now it's basically pay to win. My defense was around 18% or 19% for the week last week. Reality is that it's boosted at the beginning of the week by lower ranked teams attacking me and losing and by the end of the week it's barely holding. It's more likely beginning of the week is 35% to 50% and by the end of the week it's 5% to 10%. Doubtful that'll change.

fully agree guys 100% wins is not a good situation. i think great players should have 96+ but that's about it. only thing that mocks me is that this guy is outstanding. nothing can compare with him and there is no real counterunit to him. it's not a bad scenario like beta prisoner but wrath somewhat out of line. same with gunner rescuer. i use this girl 90% of the time on offense and it feels sometimes like cheating to be honest. she is the other toon that is out of line because of this outstanding powermove. curious to see what the new changes will bring, but it's not okay if 2-3 toons are so much better then similar toons of the same rarity (fun fact GCR is a 4* ;) ).

[Tridimensionale]

Well i remember one month ago when some people complain about generals being useless in pvp.. and the devs answer was that they were balanced as they were with the right team/strategy

Now .. i m glad they will be buffed couse they are 5* stars native and very rare toons but ---> not only the buff and the removal effect even total war cost from 7 to 5 ??? wtf

Sorry devs but my impression is that you make OP toons on purpose... leave them be for a month or two so the meta change and players have to run behind them.. then nerf and so on..
Couse it s obvious this change is not balanced, as were many changes in the past.

[Monte47]

fully agree guys 100% wins is not a good situation. i think great players should have 96+ but that's about it. only thing that mocks me is that this guy is outstanding. nothing can compare with him and there is no real counterunit to him. it's not a bad scenario like beta prisoner but wrath somewhat out of line. same with gunner rescuer. i use this girl 90% of the time on offense and it feels sometimes like cheating to be honest. she is the other toon that is out of line because of this outstanding powermove. curious to see what the new changes will bring, but it's not okay if 2-3 toons are so much better then similar toons of the same rarity (fun fact GCR is a 4* ;) ).

I see your point with how hard he hits, and feeling like you are cheating. When I'm down in the lower levels, they sometimes don't even get a turn if I win toss. Visions steals power, Wrath special, Artillery dog hits, lights out. Tho, lol, it is helpful when you let yourself fall and want to climb quick.

[Askora]

fully agree guys 100% wins is not a good situation. i think great players should have 96+ but that's about it. only thing that mocks me is that this guy is outstanding. nothing can compare with him and there is no real counterunit to him. it's not a bad scenario like beta prisoner but wrath somewhat out of line. same with gunner rescuer. i use this girl 90% of the time on offense and it feels sometimes like cheating to be honest. she is the other toon that is out of line because of this outstanding powermove. curious to see what the new changes will bring, but it's not okay if 2-3 toons are so much better then similar toons of the same rarity (fun fact GCR is a 4* ;) ).

I guess it all depends on the level you define as great players. Personally I think many of the players in the top 100 are pretty good, not withstanding also having some luck and invested the time to have developed a team capable of competing. I'd say that the top 100 doesn't change dramatically from week to week. If you counted them all as great players, Attack ratios of 96+ means we need to be happy with Defense ratios of 3+. Not a perfect depiction, but I think it's close enough. My guess is that the top 100 is probably closer to an average of 90% win rates, which means that 10% is a realistic average hold rate. Yes, there are a few outliers but other than some particularly innovative defenses a lot of that is also based on luck.

On defense I think Wrath is only so-so, his main asset there is the buff removal. If he can't get power he can't pull off the power move, if he does then it's all luck for the defense to actually hit a perfect AoE to do the major damage. I use him offensively and defensively, but prior to getting him I used MCR because she does a damn good job of freezing the opponents. The biggest difference it's made on offense is speed. Defensively, he maybe helps out my SSD but that's about all I can hope for.


Pay to win? Where is the ability and time to be able to be on high ranks? People there make that possible with almost the same toons we all have, that should be respected.

I say pay to win, because for the very top that's more or less is what it comes down to. As offensive ratios approach 100% and defensive ratios get closer to 0%, the difference becomes simply a matter of the number of SoW spent. Not a direct pay as they're bought with ironite, but unless someone has a huge stockpile the only way to get a large amount is some extreme luck in the SQs or to buy it with real world dollars. I'm not complaining, I'm merely stating an observation. I have no issues with those who spend to be at the top as they subsidize the game for those who choose to play for free.

[HomemLivre]

I think that this talk about opness is out of time, we need to wait and see the new talisman sets. Maybe we will be able to build some nice chars that we think to be not worthy and defend against chars that atm are really strong.

Imo we just need to wait a few days and see what we will going to have at our disposal.

I think that all points are valid, but just out of time.


EDIT: Maybe this kind of discution will be more determinant after the next patch.

[slauki]

I say pay to win, because for the very top that's more or less is what it comes down to. As offensive ratios approach 100% and defensive ratios get closer to 0%, the difference becomes simply a matter of the number of SoW spent. Not a direct pay as they're bought with ironite, but unless someone has a huge stockpile the only way to get a large amount is some extreme luck in the SQs or to buy it with real world dollars. I'm not complaining, I'm merely stating an observation. I have no issues with those who spend to be at the top as they subsidize the game for those who choose to play for free.

i think you forget one important factor, and this is skill. skill leads to a extremly fast list clearing. if we imagine two players who play 24 hours every day with infinite numbers of ironite the better one will win. even both have 100% wins, the better player will be able to play 10000 matches the worse player will only be able to play 9000 (just an example ofc).

that said, noone will make eternal without spending a lot of ironite, but i really think that noone can beat gmac at the moment, if he pushes as hard as he can,no matter how much you spend. so pay to win is a factor but skill still matters a lot.

only possibility i see if you start from the beginning and get a 5000 points lead, this might discourage the others from hunting you. good old killhouse tactic, but otherwise you might spend a ton and still get chased down....

[Askora]

i think you forget one important factor, and this is skill. skill leads to a extremly fast list clearing. if we imagine two players who play 24 hours every day with infinite numbers of ironite the better one will win. even both have 100% wins, the better player will be able to play 10000 matches the worse player will only be able to play 9000 (just an example ofc).

that said, noone will make eternal without spending a lot of ironite, but i really think that noone can beat gmac at the moment, if he pushes as hard as he can,no matter how much you spend. so pay to win is a factor but skill still matters a lot.

only possibility i see if you start from the beginning and get a 5000 points lead, this might discourage the others from hunting you. good old killhouse tactic, but otherwise you might spend a ton and still get chased down....

Not really skill then, it's more down to speed. But, in the end still technically pay to win as unless you've been saving for a long time you won't have the ironite to burn without spending money.

[Kamuz24z]

Last week the complaints were for Latex Lucy now is Wrath what's next Warrior undead rescuer let's say that devs decide to nerf them will you guys be willing to take eternal, are those toons really stopping you from getting a better rank or just because you want 100% win let's wait for next update things will be different

[Nicko]

Not really skill then, it's more down to speed. But, in the end still technically pay to win as unless you've been saving for a long time you won't have the ironite to burn without spending money.

I disagree. I don't care how much I pay, I'm not beating GMAC. Unless I pay him directly to abstain from the competition :p

I think you're right in that if you want to compete for the top 5 - you need to be willing to invest in Ironite. But to actually WIN Eternal? Or even jockey for which top 5 spot you get? That takes skill. And speed is a part of that.

Maybe it's just my bias, but I don't think you can take any Level 100 or above player - hand them some Ironite - and say beat GMAC, Caliza, Black Steel, Kamuz, Carlos, etc. They're not going to be able to do it. And ultimately it's not about who had the highest win percentage - it's who accumulated the highest number of points. And while you have to pay to enter the competition - buying a stock load of Ironite and then not being able to keep up is a real possibility if you're not used to the Saturday race.

[Monte47]

Last week the complaints were for Latex Lucy now is Wrath what's next Warrior undead rescuer let's say that devs decide to nerf them will you guys be willing to take eternal, are those toons really stopping you from getting a better rank or just because you want 100% win let's wait for next update things will be different

This. Some teams are hard to beat if they get the jump. Bra data kicks my ass 90% of the time. When I've won the coin, I win. I can't recover on my normal offense if he goes first.
You know who's fault that is? Mine. I have toons that could heal and fix it, but I like to play with certain offense. When I've changed it up, I win. It's on me, my skill, my decisions. I like that its hard.

With no new content, if the arena is a no brained, then why play? Why not have fun with it hard? Adapt. Be better. Win.

[Askora]

I disagree. I don't care how much I pay, I'm not beating GMAC. Unless I pay him directly to abstain from the competition :p

I think you're right in that if you want to compete for the top 5 - you need to be willing to invest in Ironite. But to actually WIN Eternal? Or even jockey for which top 5 spot you get? That takes skill. And speed is a part of that.

Maybe it's just my bias, but I don't think you can take any Level 100 or above player - hand them some Ironite - and say beat GMAC, Caliza, Black Steel, Kamuz, Carlos, etc. They're not going to be able to do it. And ultimately it's not about who had the highest win percentage - it's who accumulated the highest number of points. And while you have to pay to enter the competition - buying a stock load of Ironite and then not being able to keep up is a real possibility if you're not used to the Saturday race.

Obviously it does take some speed, especially for the Saturday rush. I'm sure that when you're not trying alternative offenses you can take down teams pretty quick. Of the battle videos I posted, pretty much every one lasts less than a minute. The only reason they take that long is because I'm too lazy to work on my timing on speed setting of 3. It still seems like most of the time is waiting for the battle to start and the battle results at the end.

Also, not everyone in the top 100 is going to be capable of the speed or a high enough offensive rate. So, skill is still a factor. I think you could take down GMAC if you really tried, don't sell yourself short. You have to want it more than he does though. :D I'm definitely not trying to knock anyone at the top, GMAC is one of my first forum troopers and I've got a lot of respect for his skill and his attitude in winning. There also has to be some reward for spending money.

My primary point as far as the pay to play is that if that is against the devs goal then they're system is working against that. Also, as they continue to hand advantage after advantage to offense it will only get worse with time. They do still need to have a system to generate revenue though. Without money, people tend to not want to work.

Some of the issues I see, especially after watching some of the defense videos. On offense I'm typically about 98% to 100% perfect hits (even blinded unless the character is taunted). On defense, it looks like my team hits perfect less than 10% of the time. Defense doesn't get to change based on the offense it has to face, etc. More new toons designed for the changed meta will only favor the offense and lower hold rates. The fixed talismans will favor offense as well. Ultimately you end up with a system where the top players approach 100% offense, if there's enough then defense goes to 0 and it's all about the money (and speed).

[Nicko]

Some of the issues I see, especially after watching some of the defense videos. On offense I'm typically about 98% to 100% perfect hits (even blinded unless the character is taunted). On defense, it looks like my team hits perfect less than 10% of the time. Defense doesn't get to change based on the offense it has to face, etc. More new toons designed for the changed meta will only favor the offense and lower hold rates. The fixed talismans will favor offense as well. Ultimately you end up with a system where the top players approach 100% offense, if there's enough then defense goes to 0 and it's all about the money (and speed).

I agree. I suggested giving the defenses 100% perfect hits a while ago and there was some objection that it would be too hard. Really?

Humans are getting perfect hits 90% of the time. AI should do the same. It won't make up for some the AI's hilarious decision making - but it would be one step closer to what a human would do.

[Monte47]

Speaking of adapting why was angel of pain nerf again???

That's funny. The Angel of Pain was my first good toon long ago with its special. Thing was brutal.

[mjmxiii]

Last week the complaints were for Latex Lucy now is Wrath what's next Warrior undead rescuer let's say that devs decide to nerf them will you guys be willing to take eternal, are those toons really stopping you from getting a better rank or just because you want 100% win let's wait for next update things will be different

What K said, seems no one likes to lose to the shit AI so when we get a Wrath or Lucy that can be a pain in the ass, everyone wants it clipped to make it easier to beat. You see guys still crushing it no matter who they face. Said it before, beat them or die trying. It's why some are at the top and the rest of us aren't. Some chars are just supposed to be better than others!

Fix whats broken, not what's working! As long as it takes to get these stupid shit Eternals... just so everyone can cry "he works too good" and get that shit nerfed?? C'Mon man...That's why we can't have nice things, cuz everybody just wanna be breaking more shit to make it easier on yourselves... leave that mofo Wrath alone! Lets focus on some new content and quit crying cause you lose sometimes.

(Yeah I have him, no I don't use him in PvP because he is made of glass)

https://youtu.be/UpTyy1QVW6E
(No names to protect the innocent :p)

[Ian]

I'm happy with these updates. The adjustments seem to be sensible. GCR power move is rightfully adjusted to 7 which is fair considering what it does, but she keeps everything else. She'll still be a useful character without necessarily being a no-brainer.

I see complaints about Wrath. He is also not a no-brainer because he's not that durable; sure he does a lot of damage but he is a 5* Eternal and the last boss before the Beast himself - hes meant to be powerful FFS!

Nice to see gunner dog and other lesser characters getting some love as well.

[Mariner-1212]

Man you guys say the dumbest shit ever. "Stop crying cause you lose sometimes". Yet it was never that serious to begin with.

I actually don't think it was meant too seriously at all. His whole message is saying to stop getting upset about a couple tough chars. I completely agree.

Much of fighting a defense is about picking which toon to attack first, and who to carry on your offense. I never worry when I see Wrath on a defense, he's easy to take out when you attack him first (or second if you use your red bat). But he's a cannon if you let him get the best of you, which is actually fun to see when it does happen. He's also available to everyone equally being an eternal. 25% chance you pull him, and when you do, you won't want him nerfed. I don't have him, but I think he's balanced. Let the good toons be good, and work on your strategy to defeat them.

And don't call out forum members by saying their posts are the dumbest shit ever. Contribute something positive instead.

[Bradata]

What K said, seems no one likes to lose to the shit AI so when we get a Wrath or Lucy that can be a pain in the ass, everyone wants it clipped to make it easier to beat. You see guys still crushing it no matter who they face. Said it before, beat them or die trying. It's why some are at the top and the rest of us aren't. Some chars are just supposed to be better than others!

Fix whats broken, not what's working! As long as it takes to get these stupid shit Eternals... just so everyone can cry "he works too good" and get that shit nerfed?? C'Mon man...That's why we can't have nice things, cuz everybody just wanna be breaking more shit to make it easier on yourselves... leave that mofo Wrath alone! Lets focus on some new content and quit crying cause you lose sometimes.

(Yeah I have him, no I don't use him in PvP because he is made of glass)

https://youtu.be/UpTyy1QVW6E
(No names to protect the innocent :p)

I agree with you 100%!
When players lose to someone they start crying that the game is "unbalanced" and try to adjust the toons they lost against.
Not fair!

[gmac]

Just a quick comment on "pay to win".

Yes, there is an ironite requirement going for Eternal

I don't know for sure, but I think the ironite we earn during the week is good for like 400 attacks. Above that you are on ironite deficit. Carlos does not spend money on the game and got Eternal, HomemLivre as well. So, definitely possible. But if you are doing this every week, yes, you need to spend a few bucks. (I'd say I spend way more ironite on events than on Arena btw)

But Ironite is definitely not what get's you Eternal, you need to win fast towards the close, and do it repeatedly, for hours. A good system is required, yes, but also you need to stay focused for a long time. It's like a cycling time trial, start fast, keep at you threshold and finish strong, but for like 12 hours. (in that sense more like an ironman competition).

It's very tough, mentally, at least for me it is. Like I said in the other thread, I get really tired afterwards.

And I think if devs decided to give free ironite for everybody we'd have the same names at the top.

Cheers
gmac

[Monte47]

I agree with you 100%!
When players lose to someone they start crying that the game is "unbalanced" and try to adjust the toons they lost against.
Not fair!

You're officially my nemesis Bradata. Lol, you win the damn coin toss every time and kick the shit out of me. Cheers! Eskiggalu

[Bradata]

You're officially my nemesis Bradata. Lol, you win the damn coin toss every time and kick the shit out of me. Cheers! Eskiggalu

I wish there ware more like you who lose to my defense :) then I would be happy! Unfortunately my defense % can't go more than 15%.

[Monte47]

I wish there ware more like you who lose to my defense :) then I would be happy! Unfortunately my defense % can't go more than 15%.

Bastards always get the jump on me lol. Yesterday I was messing about for fun, I lost twice to you I think, was trying to clear my list, you were last left, but didn't want to be an ass and keep hitting you til I won lol.

[Bradata]

Bastards always get the jump on me lol. Yesterday I was messing about for fun, I lost twice to you I think, was trying to clear my list, you were last left, but didn't want to be an ass and keep hitting you til I won lol.

I don't see it as being an ass when you try to clear your list, sometimes I would lose 3-4 times to someone just to clear my list and I'm sure they are very happy about it when they go up in the list because of me, even I think that they love me for that 'cause I don't get revenges from them later :rolleyes:

[Monte47]

I don't see it as being an ass when you try to clear your list, sometimes I would lose 3-4 times to someone just to clear my list and I'm sure they are very happy about it when they go up in the list because of me, even I think that they love me for that 'cause I don't get revenges from them later :rolleyes:

Hahaha fair point

[mjmxiii]

Man you guys say the dumbest shit ever. "Stop crying cause you lose sometimes". Yet it was never that serious to begin with.

Lmao, were some of those your tears AK? Must have hit it pretty close to the mark to get another weak ass attempt at an insulting reply from the likes of you... grow up baby troll and get off my tip, its time for you to find a new rock to hide under. Move along --->

[mjmxiii]

First off my original comment was never meant for anyone to reply to but the person at hand.
Therefore you, and the rest of the people who decided to reply to me are irrelevant.

Next time just ignore my post altogether...simple. :)

AK, my original reply was to a comment from Kamuz in which I was agreeing with him. I had no idea you were anywhere near the subject. So please stop trying to validate yourself at my expense and since your comments are ones I consistently ignore, there is no need to request anything from me... Now please, move along...

[Monte47]

I don't see it as being an ass when you try to clear your list, sometimes I would lose 3-4 times to someone just to clear my list and I'm sure they are very happy about it when they go up in the list because of me, even I think that they love me for that 'cause I don't get revenges from them later :rolleyes:

And... drum roll please... LU KANG WINS! Lol, my Shaman with explosives brought it home for me.

[mjmxiii]

Now how do you think you would of been able to agree with him without my original post.
If it hadn't been for my original comment the majority of the people here wouldn't of had anything to say..
Considering I don't see you talking about the tuning itself.

Who's driving this kid home?? Lmao! Its time to go... it's getting late and I can hear your mom calling you from here... bye Felicia!

[Askora]

I have a question on RTTH Eddie's tuning notes for KAZ or SPARTON.

It states that his Hack skill now has an increased chance for extra Turn trigger of 100%. This skill didn't have an extra turn, so is it increased from 0% to 100% or is it an error in the tuning notes?

Additional thoughts on his hack skill is that removing the bleed effect and changing it to strictly a heal block is somewhat of a debuff. If it does indeed grant an extra turn then it might still be a buff. I don't think trading the bleed for a heal for 30% of ATK is really a buff. With all max'ed red talismans that amounts to a heal of 1342 HP, not much of a heal.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I have a question on RTTH Eddie's tuning notes for KAZ or SPARTON.

It states that his Hack skill now has an increased chance for extra Turn trigger of 100%. This skill didn't have an extra turn, so is it increased from 0% to 100% or is it an error in the tuning notes?

Ah, that is an error in the tuning notes. I'll correct that for the final release.


Additional thoughts on his hack skill is that removing the bleed effect and changing it to strictly a heal block is somewhat of a debuff. If it does indeed grant an extra turn then it might still be a buff. I don't think trading the bleed for a heal for 30% of ATK is really a buff. With all max'ed red talismans that amounts to a heal of 1342 HP, not much of a heal.

The heal itself is meant to be relatively weak. He has a proper heal in the past (Embolden); it's just a nice bonus to get a heal while still being offensive (which can be further amplified by Attack Up, Healing Amp, Ascension [in PVE], etc). Besides, if you're going all reds for talismans, that's still about 10% of his Max HP, which is pretty decent for an offensive move.

[Hypnos]

Ah, that is an error in the tuning notes. I'll correct that for the final release...

So what, will it grant an extra turn or won't it?

[Kaz_LOTB]

So what, will it grant an extra turn or won't it?

Hack will not have an Extra Turn. That change is intended for Fixate. Fixate will now grant an Extra Turn.

-Kaz

[Liebhild]

I think lots of nerfs wouldn't be needed or demanded, if defense would have the same probabilities like offense.

F.e.
Wrath on defense deletes almost every time all beneficial effects. I'm happy if my wrath on offense deletes 1 or 2.
Same with SSD on defense. SSD taunts almost whole team everytime, while my SSD on offense taunts only 1 or 2.

NF never answered why they give the artificial dumbness this advantage or how high it is.


(Try to fight your defense on auto with defense team = offense team. Should be 50/50, but it isn't).

[Blacksteel]

And again we have another lost match because of the game hanging into an idle state where you can not do a thing other than exit the match, for @Devs reference this time was against Gmac at 1:07 CST,
This has been reported by many time and time again month after month, I really hope the issue gets the attention it deserves, what's being done?, I see nothing on the bug fixes.

[Bradata]

And again we have another lost match because of the game hanging into an idle state where you can not do a thing other than exit the match, for @Devs reference this time was against Gmac at 1:07 CST,
This has been reported by many time and time again month after month, I really hope the issue gets the attention it deserves, what's being done?, I see nothing on the bug fixes.

LoL! Eternal gets a special set of talismans at the end of the week and it works for one week only, it's called win blocker. If AI feels that you are winning, it activates the talismans and the game freezes ;)

[Blacksteel]

LoL! Eternal gets a special set of talismans at the end of the week and it works for one week only, it's called win blocker. If AI feels that you are winning, it activates the talismans and the game freezes ;)

Lol, You might be on to something, currently seems that shaolinlondo is going to be eternal this week and guess what, @NF game got stuck vs shaolinlondo @3:34 PM CST.
Seems now they pre-award the talismans to the soon to be eternal, maybe they have @Therealclairvoyant working at their side, hopefully she can help @NF to FIX the darn BUG ffs.

[Lulero]

For how long it has been around I also feel it should have been fixed by now.

However, it really seems the worst kind of bug to track down: no clear steps to reproduce it and I have a feeling it doesn't occur in debug mode (I pray they do have at least such a tool).

That being said, nothing a crash dump can't pinpoint over some times investigating.

-----

Same topic: I had something very similar happening to me in PvE but it was progressive:

Bug description:
I was on auto-farm, game of death stage, none if my characters had a 3-tap move.
Out of nowhere, in the span of 3 or so turns, the AI got exponentially slow at taking decisions.
Graphics were not affected and were still smooth.
It got to a point the controls at the top were unresponsive, could only switch the target, very similar to the "game-hanging" bug.

Could be a different one or not but, in any case, the way it happened really felt like the AI reached a live-lock.
Or something close that took long enough to look like one.
Best of luck, NF, to deal with that stuff.

ps: Didn't post in bug report forum for some reason.

[mjmxiii]

I had a "Draw" in GoD today. Something that has never happened to me. Happened on auto-play and didn't see it actually happen but screen said Draw at results screen. Did not know it was even possible lol.

[Silentknight]

I had a "Draw" in GoD today. Something that has never happened to me. Happened on auto-play and didn't see it actually happen but screen said Draw at results screen. Did not know it was even possible lol.

Death blow against reflective shield? In this game anything is possible! Quit playing again due to freezes & rank went up! Nice f'n game!

[mjmxiii]

I dunno duder! Does not make sense, if Chewbacca is a wookie....

[DaveMurray]

And again we have another lost match because of the game hanging into an idle state where you can not do a thing other than exit the match, for @Devs reference this time was against Gmac at 1:07 CST,
This has been reported by many time and time again month after month, I really hope the issue gets the attention it deserves, what's being done?, I see nothing on the bug fixes.

I wrote that in many threads, in most of the cases game freezes when a toon that can remove buffs is resurrected and right after it's resurrection the remove buff skill is used.
I only get a crash/freeze when that happens, i have to adjust my kill order in pvp(yeah i know it's sad..) so that it won't happen but sometimes it's inevitable due to counter talis.
A simple solution to crash/freezes would be to implement a timer for each battle so that you can restart the game and continue the battle if you are on time. This will still protect the game from hacks(that's why we loose the matches when a crash/freeze happens) and the players won't loose matches that they shouldn't.

[Nicko]

My only loss so far this week is when that happened. Clairvoyant used her fury - revived Red Buzz - kind of.

The white circle appeared for Buzz - but he never did.

Then buttons disappear - stare down begins...

[Chaosego888]

I had this happen earlier tonight versus Educated Fool. Corrupt Rescuer revives Wrath and he immediately attacks then the buttons disappear.... and it is still happening on 3x speed

[Bradata]

I had this happen earlier tonight versus Educated Fool. Corrupt Rescuer revives Wrath and he immediately attacks then the buttons disappear.... and it is still happening on 3x speed

This shit has been happening a lot and no fix yet, even I started playing 3x speed 'cause I saw somewhere Sparton mentioning that it wouldn't happen on 3x speed but no, it did again.

[Chaosego888]

This shit has been happening a lot and no fix yet, even I started playing 3x speed 'cause I saw somewhere Sparton mentioning that it wouldn't happen on 3x speed but no, it did again.Yeah, I had it happen a lot several weeks back and just started taking her out 1st, sometimes that's just not practical though. I saw the original exchange you and Sparton had a couple weeks ago so I figured I should verify it does still happen on 3x speed.

[Bradata]

Yeah, I had it happen a lot several weeks back and just started taking her out 1st, sometimes that's just not practical though. I saw the original exchange you and Sparton had a couple weeks ago so I figured I should verify it does still happen on 3x speed.

Yep, it happens! I can confirm.

[Nicko]

Yep, it happens! I can confirm.

I play everything on 3x speed - so yup - happening here too

[Chaosego888]

Yep, it happens! I can confirm.Don't worry about it man. That golden chick will be collecting dust with her sisters in a week or so anyway.

[Bradata]

Don't worry about it man. That golden chick will be collecting dust with her sisters in a week or so anyway.

If they fix the energy talismans, yes but if they don't you'll see her even more. :confused:

[Maiden Legacy Member]

https://youtu.be/5-uX31sQnuQ

[Sparton_LOTB]

Regarding the combat hang issue, our QA just let me know that while I was on vacation, they identified an combat hang which they thought was localized to a new feature, but actually was a combat hang situation that would have also been in the currently-live version. This issue was fixed recently in our internal builds and should be in the next update.

I'm still confirming the specifics with them, but we will add information about the fix to the full patch notes for the upcoming release.

[Bradata]

Regarding the combat hang issue, our QA just let me know that while I was on vacation, they identified an combat hang which they thought was localized to a new feature, but actually was a combat hang situation that would have also been in the currently-live version. This issue was fixed recently in our internal builds and should be in the next update.

I'm still confirming the specifics with them, but we will add information about the fix to the full patch notes for the upcoming release.

Thank you, Sparton!
...full patch notes for the upcoming release which is coming in 3, 2, 1 days ;)

[Chaosego888]

If they fix the energy talismans, yes but if they don't you'll see her even more. :confused:That's what I was basing that on. With Energy and Explosives working as intended, 7 power for Resuciatate will render her useless in my opinion

[Blacksteel]

Regarding the combat hang issue, our QA just let me know that while I was on vacation, they identified an combat hang which they thought was localized to a new feature, but actually was a combat hang situation that would have also been in the currently-live version. This issue was fixed recently in our internal builds and should be in the next update.

I'm still confirming the specifics with them, but we will add information about the fix to the full patch notes for the upcoming release.

That's great!, thanks Sparton that was a nasty bug, looking forward to the update.

[Blacksteel]

That's what I was basing that on. With Energy and Explosives working as intended, 7 power for Resuciatate will render her useless in my opinion

Well she has been OP long enough.

[Chaosego888]

Well she has been OP long enough.I never thought she was OP to begin with, maybe a little annoying at times but damn sure not as annoying as a counterstriking soulless demon. If it were up to me the Troll would get his Magma shield back, the Angel of Pain would get Siege restored to it's original state, Visions Eddie and Corrupt General made awesome again, Magus chick would get her 100% removal back and the Mummy Eddie would taunt as much as that ridiculous demon. I'm all for implementing Nicko's perfect hit idea as well. Let's get rid of the coinflip as well and just go 2nd every time. This 98% win rate is getting old... and please leave Wrath alone. The only nerf that ever made any sense to me was the Prisoner.

[Nicko]

I never thought she was OP to begin with, maybe a little annoying at times but damn sure not as annoying as a counterstriking soulless demon. If it were up to me the Troll would get his Magma shield back, the Angel of Pain would get Siege restored to it's original state, Visions Eddie and Corrupt General made awesome again, Magus chick would get her 100% removal back and the Mummy Eddie would taunt as much as that ridiculous demon. I'm all for implementing Nicko's perfect hit idea as well. Let's get rid of the coinflip as well and just go 2nd every time. This 98% win rate is getting old... and please leave Wrath alone. The only nerf that ever made any sense to me was the Prisoner.

Couldn't have said it better myself. While 98% win rates may make someone feel like a stud - games are about challenge...

[Blacksteel]

I never thought she was OP to begin with, maybe a little annoying at times but damn sure not as annoying as a counterstriking soulless demon. If it were up to me the Troll would get his Magma shield back, the Angel of Pain would get Siege restored to it's original state, Visions Eddie and Corrupt General made awesome again, Magus chick would get her 100% removal back and the Mummy Eddie would taunt as much as that ridiculous demon. I'm all for implementing Nicko's perfect hit idea as well. Let's get rid of the coinflip as well and just go 2nd every time. This 98% win rate is getting old... and please leave Wrath alone. The only nerf that ever made any sense to me was the Prisoner.
Magus chick would get removal % back and lower ability cost, corrupt droid would get back cheapo shields and immunity, sweet.
Anyway I'm all in if they bring back the good old fun, but as it stands today she needs to be tamed as she does stand out, look at it this way:
FREE Titan shield every turn
Revives a character for only 6
Heals Herself
Hit's all so you can take 12 energy from the other team
She can be the last character standing and still get a draw or win against 1 and up to 3 low-med damage characters (i.e a Nomad and a pharaoh dog together cant kill her).
And she will be resurrecting her team in the meantime, if she resurrects a Grim Reaper, Vampire Hunter, Pharaoh,Clairvoyant,etc. the whole team comes back, GG.
And all this after she has been nerfed already once.
I could bet that she is one of the characters that statistically gets more wins for a team.
It's not only about the stats but the potential and flexibility, that's not only annoying but borderline OP, not super OP just getting there.
Yes You can kill her focusing dmg/removal and maybe risk ignoring the rest of the team, how many characters can do what she can?.

[Chaosego888]

Magus chick would get removal % back and lower ability cost, corrupt droid would get back cheapo shields and immunity, sweet.
Anyway I'm all in if they bring back the good old fun, but as it stands today she needs to be tamed as she does stand out, look at it this way:
FREE Titan shield every turn
Revives a character for only 6
Heals Herself
Hit's all so you can take 12 energy from the other team
She can be the last character standing and still get a draw or win against 1 and up to 3 low-med damage characters (i.e a Nomad and a pharaoh dog together cant kill her).
And she will be resurrecting her team in the meantime, if she resurrects a Grim Reaper, Vampire Hunter, Pharaoh,Clairvoyant,etc. the whole team comes back, GG.
And all this after she has been nerfed already once.
I could bet that she is one of the characters that statistically gets more wins for a team.
It's not only about the stats but the potential and flexibility, that's not only annoying but borderline OP, not super OP just getting there.
Yes You can kill her focusing dmg/removal and maybe risk ignoring the rest of the team, how many characters can do what she can?.There are way too many counters for her. The reason she is so annoying now is because of the energy and explosive talismans being bugged, not because of her abilities. She will typically just revive the 1st character killed and then she usually gets dumb and starts attacking void shields for the rest of the battle which removes the shield for you. I use 6 or 7 different characters to counter her depending on what the other 3 are. I won't list them all out of respect for players that choose to use her on their defense. Multiple revivers tend to just waste power which actually just limits the team because they don't have enough attack. Grim Reaper and Vampire Hunter are a little different but if you keep their health down they never use their fury anyway. I just think this seemingly small nerf will lead to a lot of players who love this character to bench her and it will be just another character that got ruined and disappeared. I have never been a fan of using her for my defense. I did use her a lot on offense in the past but retired her because she bacame the reason for a lot of lost battles

[konstifik]

I had a "Draw" in GoD today. Something that has never happened to me. Happened on auto-play and didn't see it actually happen but screen said Draw at results screen. Did not know it was even possible lol.

Can happen when reflective shields are active, either if you had one up or if the Magus COTD had her shield up.

[DaveMurray]

So any word on when exactly we will get the new update from the devs please?
Was hoping for today so any news would be appreciated.

[Monte47]

There are way too many counters for her. The reason she is so annoying now is because of the energy and explosive talismans being bugged, not because of her abilities. She will typically just revive the 1st character killed and then she usually gets dumb and starts attacking void shields for the rest of the battle which removes the shield for you. I use 6 or 7 different characters to counter her depending on what the other 3 are. I won't list them all out of respect for players that choose to use her on their defense. Multiple revivers tend to just waste power which actually just limits the team because they don't have enough attack. Grim Reaper and Vampire Hunter are a little different but if you keep their health down they never use their fury anyway. I just think this seemingly small nerf will lead to a lot of players who love this character to bench her and it will be just another character that got ruined and disappeared. I have never been a fan of using her for my defense. I did use her a lot on offense in the past but retired her because she bacame the reason for a lot of lost battles

I was so excited to get her, and she is fine on offense, but on defense I just think she kind of sucks. I have a prisoner, so for me, the shield isn't a deal usually, but my defensive holds go way down when I put her in, even with explosives on her. The AI does the dumbest shit in terms of what it chooses to use, so everything is hit or miss imo.

Almost every team I play with the GRE, the AI could use the fury, or hell, heal him even, and it invariably chooses Slash instead.

[Blacksteel]

The AI does the dumbest shit in terms of what it chooses to use, so everything is hit or miss imo.

Ain't that the truth, that's why some good characters are not used more while other characters like the DM can be so helpful as it's one of the few ways you have to sort of force AI and expect a more predictable result.
It would be really cool to have a sort of map or game-plan UI for the AI where we could give a certain weight to some skills or direct a set of combos.

Anyway, it is what it is and Devs have the hard numbers as well as the last the word on what needs nerfing, seems a patch is about to be released, let's see how it changes the meta.