[Troopers] Discussion and suggestion

[Lulero]

["It's too long I won't read it all."]

Please! At least the following:

Because of internet issues or whatnot, some day it may happen you can only run, say, 10 troopers.
On that day you'll get 1250 badges at most from those troopers sending you badges, but will send and get only 250 from running them. 1500 badges gotten, 250 sent.

What I'm suggesting is to move the "send badges" part of runs to a "send all" button.
On that same day you'd still get 1250 badges at most from troopers pressing that button. You'd still only get 250 from running your troopers. But you'd have sent 1250 badges in one click. 1500 badges gotten, 1250 sent.

The main point is to avoid "guilt". You only penalize yourself and not your troopers if you are only active a little each day.

Another benefit is to open options for free to play players who can now really choose to run LoL (and not be able to run all their troopers) without affecting the people on their list.

Lastly, if game crashes while running a trooper it only affects your tally.

[/"It's too long I won't read it all."]

-----

I believe the current trooper system suffers from a contradiction.

Some issues:

On one hand it is time intensive, making it a prime source of income for free to play players.
On the other, to run all your troopers leaves you with little SoT to do anything else.

It became more obvious with the change from secret locations to skull quests because of the sharp increase in SoT cost.
As it is, you still can run all your troopers, quests and do a few LoL X runs a day. But that means not skipping a single beat.
And I'm a bit worried that the introduction of BNW will make it even harsher.

Those points are understandable from a business point of vue.
You get to choose, badges, LoL, quests or (with BNW) a new talisman related currency (most likely).
If you want them all, you have to buy SoT refills at least once or twice a day.
This system also part of the design elements that incite players to login at least once a day.

However, the way it is now, if you don't run your troopers they don't get their badges.
Hence, to dedicated free to play players, not running troopers isn't an option.
IMO it raises too much frustration and a chore-like feeling to remain as is.


Suggestion:

To "fix" this while keeping the same design goals, I believe that sending badges should be made a lot easier.
All online games I played with a similar "friendlist" feature only required the press of a button to send them all.
But to get all your daily badges you'd still have to use all of your troopers.

To clarify, right now you get 50 badges per trooper a day at most. 25 from the run, 25 if that trooper use your champion.
What I'm suggesting is to keep former part untouched, but to ease the later down to the press of a "send all" button.
You won't get anything by pressing that button, but your troopers will. You still have to run 50 times to get the other half.

The obvious big difference being that you won't penalize the people on your friend list if you still press one button a day...
... Or if you choose that, today, you want to run LoL and give up on some badges.
It opens the options available to the players, while still keeping an incentive to buy some SoT refills.

Also fixes the issue of the game crashing while running a trooper, at least from that friend perspective.


Closing comments:

This suggestion isn't the only possible fix for the mentioned issue. At the end, it comes down to the primary lines of design that only NF staff know of.

To other players, I'd like to know what are your thoughts about this. Even if it's only something like "won't work" or "sure, let's do that".

To NF staff, I'd like to know if that issue I mentioned isn't actually considered one and why. Thank you for any bit of clarification.

EDIT:
- SoW to SoT, thanks Bradata
- "Too long, won't read"

[Bradata]

Grate suggestion but I think you mean SoT not SoW.
I think they can at least increase the limit of 80 SoT, it's getting kinda low number lately and start from there with the rest of the improvements you are suggesting.
Maybe the devs are having something hidden in their sleeves that gonna be reviled in the upcoming update ;)

[90mphyorker]

I suggested this on Twitter back in August last year when LoL was released.

A 2nd SoT for LoL and BNW.

Current SoT is still there to farm levels, do new levels when they are released and get Trooper Badges in.

New SoT for LoL and BNW allows playing of LoL and BNW without impacting normal playing and will make getting all 50 Troopers in easier.

Have same refill length as current SoW or a different system like SoW, but a dedicated one for LoL/BNW wouls solve all problems in my opinion.

[Lulero]

@Bradata: Good catch, thanks, edited!

@90mphyorker: A third time currency?

That aside, everyone has access to all content, but only those spending ironite can get both all badges and run the area(s) they need. I believe that's the intended design.

However, as I stated already, it's not a real choice if your troopers are affected by your own decision. I believe that's a real issue, not intended by design. Hence the suggestion in first post.

I might be wrong. Maybe NF doesn't want a choice, and that the intend is to (either feel bad for your troopers or) spend ironite. In that case, nothing to fix, but I'm sad. Hence why I'd like to hear from NF on this.

[Chaosego888]

I would be happy if we could just fill up all the slots with troopers and run five at a time. This would reduce it from 50 runs to 10 or 20 runs depending on how many troopers you have with allies as their champion. A better system is necessary whatever it may be.

[Lulero]

From what @Bradata, @Chaosego888 and I said, there is three different "issues". Respectively:
#1 You can't run all your troopers in one sitting (80 SoT cap)
#2 Running troopers is time consuming (50 runs)
#3 Not running all your troopers does not only penalize yourself but also some of the people on your list.

I'm inclined to believe it would be for the best to solve all three. However, the trooper system also have purpose:
#4 It's one of the incentive to have player login at least once a day.
#5 It's a SoT sink, meaning you either have to be hardcore or spend ironite to get all badges, skull quests and still manage to clear some LoL.

The question to NF is: What are the actual issues and what is intended by design?
I believe they'd agree on the above classification, but obviously could be wrong.

Being able to carry 4 troopers a run could be fun, but you'd have to scale the SoT cost accordingly or it would clash with #5.
Like 4/8/12/16 SoT to clear "Powerslave" with 1/2/3/4 troopers.

Still, to me, the most troublesome is #3.
Given you login once a day it should be enough for your troopers to get their badges.
If you want more, up to twice, you can still run them.
But if you'd rather run LoL and miss some badges, it shouldn't affect the people on your list.

...

Sorry from the wall of text again ... TL;DR: Stick to the bold and colored text.

[slauki]

i like the idea of sending badges too all with one click. the logic behind that is good, so you only penelize yourself if you don't play all troopers.
the multiple trooper usage is also one of my favourite ideas, we were fighting since the beginning of PVP for some improvments in time management, but noone listened to us. sparton said months ago that they were investigating multiple trooper usage, but seems it will take quite a while till they finish their investigation ;)

what i would really dislike is a 3rd currency for playing lol and bnw. i see the problems in limited sot and multiple possibiliities to spend them but another currency would mean even more time we would have to spen to fulfill the obligations, that would be horrible imo.

i would have another suggestion. why not reducing sot costs for LOL or an idea i had some while back raisinhg sot to 120.
this would synchronize the refresh times for sow and sot. for more elaborated thoughts you can read the following thred.

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?6055-Raising-up-sand-of-time-to-120&highlight=increasing

but again: noone listens to anything we suggested in the last 9 months. so my conclusion is they want it that way.... or it's extremly low on their priority list....

[Tridimensionale]

i like the idea of sending badges too all with one click. the logic behind that is good, so you only penelize yourself if you don't play all troopers.


That s the point ! nice thinking Lulero ! hope the devs will help on this one

[Lulero]

Thank for supporting the idea!

@Slauki: The thread you linked has great arguments for a 120 SoT cap, would indeed make a lot of sense. Some also raised valid concerns about the SoT refill on level up, I do remember it annoyed me quite a bit when wasting it. As for NF not listening, pretty sure you wrong on that :) They rarely answer though (<-- obvious bait).

[kkkreg5]

To clarify, right now you get 50 badges per trooper a day at most. 25 from the run, 25 if that trooper use your champion.
What I'm suggesting is to keep former part untouched, but to ease the later down to the press of a "send all" button.
You won't get anything by pressing that button, but your troopers will. You still have to run 50 times to get the other half.

Lulero,

I think your idea of "one touch" badges to my Troopers is a solid one, but if I understand this correctly, when all (optimistically) my 50 Troopers press their "one touch" button wouldn't I get my 1250 badges for that day as well, theoretically? The devs wouldn't go for this because there is no SOT used. No refills to purchase.

I think the devs screwed the long time, or Level 100 players when the auto refill was removed after reaching 100. Before I reached Level 100, I could squeeze in some games before the reset then get my refill of 80 and continue. I think that by simply allowing Level 100 players auto refills again, we would have more opportunities to play three different areas of the game. Increasing the sands to 120 (Slauki) would optimal, but again, devs wouldn't go for this. No refills to purchase.

[Lulero]

Lulero,

I think your idea of "one touch" badges to my Troopers is a solid one, but if I understand this correctly, when all (optimistically) my 50 Troopers press their "one touch" button wouldn't I get my 1250 badges for that day as well, theoretically? The devs wouldn't go for this because there is no SOT used. No refills to purchase.

You'd be missing out on half your badges then. As stated in the part you quoted, you get nothing from pressing that button, only your the troopers on your list do.
You still have to run your troopers for the other 1250 badges.
Same as it is now, except that if you don't do the later (or only partially), you only limit yourself not some of the people on your list (in a mostly arbitrary way).

If 1250 isn't enough of an incentive, you can tweak the ratio a bit. "Send all" for 10 badges each, run for 40 each. 500 & 2000. But I believe it would work just fine with 1250 & 1250, as it is today.

I'm alright with "frustration" being a lever to encourage players spending ironite. However, with "guilt" I'm not, if you see what I mean. Not only from an ethical viewpoint, also from a business one as this kind of practice can easily tick some people off and have them quit.

[Ian]

Wouldn't it just be easier to take 2 troopers per mission, but only if you have finished the main campaign, on Madness with all 3 skulls on every quest. This way, players still doing the campaign do not get an unfair edge - they can use one trooper per mission like before, but those of us who have exausted the PvE content can make grinding through troopers a bit less of a chore.

[kkkreg5]

You'd be missing out on half your badges then. As stated in the part you quoted, you get nothing from pressing that button, only your the troopers on your list do.
You still have to run your troopers for the other 1250 badges.
Same as it is now, except that if you don't do the later (or only partially), you only limit yourself not some of the people on your list (in a mostly arbitrary way).

If 1250 isn't enough of an incentive, you can tweak the ratio a bit. "Send all" for 10 badges each, run for 40 each. 500 & 2000. But I believe it would work just fine with 1250 & 1250, as it is today.

I'm alright with "frustration" being a lever to encourage players spending ironite. However, with "guilt" I'm not, if you see what I mean. Not only from an ethical viewpoint, also from a business one as this kind of practice can easily tick some people off and have them quit.

So basically some sort of "bank" that releases the badges to you after you play that particular Trooper. I wonder how much programming that would require...

[kkkreg5]

Wouldn't it just be easier to take 2 troopers per mission, but only if you have finished the main campaign, on Madness with all 3 skulls on every quest. This way, players still doing the campaign do not get an unfair edge - they can use one trooper per mission like before, but those of us who have exausted the PvE content can make grinding through troopers a bit less of a chore.

2 Troopers per mission is also a good idea.

[Mariner-1212]

Lots of good ideas here. I like the one-button send and play to acquire the best. I've gotten 3 or 4 errors during farming the past day or so - so some of my Troopers got screwed from that (not even sure who, but Rene you were one of them... sorry brother!). The one-button send eliminates that.

I also noticed from being on vacation that the errors happen most based on spotty wifi /mobile connection. Particularly if you were connected to wifi, and then leave during something... you're guaranteed an error at the end, and Troopers get screwed.

At minimum, I'd like the ability to 'try again' with a Trooper if you don't successfully get them their badges. Like a skull quest, if you don't complete it, you can play it again until you do. Same should go for Troopers.

[Lulero]

About the multiple troopers a run suggestion, it been suggested by Chaosego page 1 of this thread and in many others, too. According to Slauki, Sparton commented it was being investigated several months ago.

Anyhow, IMO it addresses a different issue tied to the trooper system: the time-consuming part. I detailed that part more in my answer to Chaosego page 1, please do read that if you want to keep discussing it.


So basically some sort of "bank" that releases the badges to you after you play that particular Trooper. I wonder how much programming that would require...

What bank? I don't get it.

At the moment: You do 50 runs, each runs earns you 25 badges (out of thin air) and send 25 badges to each trooper you ran.
What I'm suggesting: You press a "send all" button, all your troopers get 25 badges. You can do up to 50 runs to earn 25 more badges (out of thin air) for each.

Same amount of badges sent, received and created.


@Mariner: Glad you like the suggestion and seem to understand what I'm saying haha. My English not as good as I'd like to be ... Sorry for that.


EDIT: Edited OP with, I hope, a clear explanation of what I'm suggesting. Doesn't mean we can't discuss other issues to the trooper system and suggestions.

[kkkreg5]

Lulero,

I'm not trying to be argumentative.

This is what I'm thinking... I'm not very imaginative I apologize ahead of time. So EVERYONE has a button they can click on to pass along 25 badges to each of their Troopers. If each of my 50 Troopers has the same button and clicks to send their 25 to me, theoretically, I wouldn't have to play my Troopers because my 25 badges from each would be waiting for me when I login. Thus, Troopers are not played at all. The burden falls on each of my Troopers to fulfill their obligation to me by reciprocating. Does that seem correct? Another suggestion was to select the number of Troopers you want to send badges to, but still, no Troopers are actually played.

The "bank" would come into use to force me or my Troopers to play the character in order to release the 25 badges when the character is used. This puts the burden back on me to play my Troopers to get my badges. If I wish not to play all 50, it's on me. No guilt because I am only hurting myself.

Again, not trying to be argumentative. One click for 1250 badges is the easiest and fastest.

[Lulero]

@kkkregs5:

Yup I got that you weren't trying to argument, we just can't seem to understand what the other is saying. I'm still puzzled!

This is how it works at the moment: When you run a trooper, you send 25 badges to them, but you also earn 25 badges from thin air. A total of 50 badges per trooper, 25 sent/received and 25 created, 2500 total.

What I suggest is what you said, a button to send all badges in one click. If everyone click that button everyday, all get 1250 badges.

No buffer/bank, badges are sent straight away as it is the case already (or am I missing the point and you are suggesting that "bank" on top?).

But you still need to run your troopers to get the other 1250 badges (the created ones).

See the example I added to the opening post and the listed pros after it.

[kkkreg5]

So... after re-reading your initial post, we are in agreement.

Basically what we would be doing is playing for our own 25 badges x50. 1250 sent with one click then you play your Troopers for what you want to receive. There is no need for storing or banking badges as I suggested because, again, you're playing for your own.

"I see" said the blind man...