[Discussion] Expected meta shifts after August 2017 update

[Lulero]

Hey there!

I'm quite happy about the upcoming changes, but that's not the point of this thread. Good or bad, doesn't matter, those fixes and tuning are coming our way and will affect meta. But how?
While it's pretty much impossible to grasp the full extend of the incoming shift, I believe it's possible to draw some early conclusion.
Also, I figured it could help some players to get a better understanding on how PvP works nowadays.

Without further ado let's discuss how one might expect the meta to change after next update.


Fix to augment talisman sets

Two sets that are used quite heavily are affected: void and energy.

About the former, its proc rate will now be 35% no matter the number of target, making it not as reliable as it is now.
I expect to see less of those, but may still be ok with strike for more tries?
At any rate, it will have some impact, mostly pure damage won't be needed as much.

About energy, while stacking shields still not fixed, this set should still find its way in some lineups.
However, teams that were relying on it will probably struggle to keep performing.
Specifically Corrupt Rescuer, which also has his power move cost raised from 6 to 7, but it's not the only case.

Teams that mostly rely on basic attacks and/or fury should once again become the norm.
That being said, some "generator" toons had their utility upgraded... But I'm not sure if it's enough to justify a slot in your lineup.


Run to the Hill Eddie:

Massive buffs all around, but no increase to damages. Although I have it maxed and will definitely test him a bit, I'm not expecting much.


Other tunings:

Feels like we'll see a lot more of Corrupt General, but then again, not sure.


Personal adjustments:

Currently I'm running a defense that uses 2 energy and 1 void sets.
If I take them out, then not sure I wanna keep my Desert Marauder and, as a consequence, my 2 explosive sets.
Also not sure my Cyborg can keep performing as he does now (even though he'll be able to use Scan again on defense).

So I'm getting ready for an all around switch.
I do have something in mind but would kind of need The Clairvoyant. I open'd 4 souls, 2 dupes so far, opening another next week-end, crossing fingers!

On offense, my setup won't be affected as much.


What do you expect to change?

[Askora]

I don't know that all of RTTH Eddie's changes can be considered buffs. Hack seems like it may actually be an unnecessary debuff. He's one of my favorite and the first Eddie I fully sharded, so it will be interesting to see if the changes make him viable. He's still selfish as far as his skill set.

Berserk: Increased damage scaling, plus a heal shield. Definitely a buff and one that he needed as his basic attack could many times do far more damage. Infinite Heal Block dealt with below.

Counter Stance: Change from Magic Reflect Shield to Counterstrike and Damage Reduction Shield for 3 turns. Major buff and probably one of the most useful.

Fixate: Increase from 50% to 100% chance for extra turn. Another good buff as he now should be able to get Perfect Hits even on defense. Probably not all that necessary on offense. It would be great if he could grant the whole team Perfect Hits, but that would probably be asking too much.

Disarming Strike: 30% chance for passive disable for 1 turn. A potentially good buff if it procs and can take advantage of it. It'll probably still be ineffective against GCR, but might help to stun a Harpy without a prisoner.

Hack: Change from a chance of inflicting Bleed, a nice but not overly powerful damage over time that has a chance to inflict heal block to simply a chance of inflicting heal block. Both skills made permanent by his Fury move. The extra turn increase from 50% to 100% is a bit curious as it doesn't add an extra turn on mine currently. Not sure if that's a mistake in the new and improved skill description, or whether he will now be granted an extra turn when using that move. The healing for 30% of ATK is most likely to be a band-aid on a gaping chest wound in pvp. With an extra turn this skill could be a buff, but if that's merely an error in tuning notes than I'd call this one a debuff. The damage over time could potentially be used by other members of the team to inflict more damage, and that's not the case with just a plain heal block.

The fixes for the talismans I think will be one of the biggest changes. You mentioned energy and void. I think invisibility, thief, vampiric, penetrating and piercing. Also, I'm going to guess that it should affect explosive talismans. I don't have a set of those to test with, but I know when they proc against me in pvp they have a good chance to affect at least 3 of my team which seems a bit high for a 35% chance.

It was mentioned that some of the presently unavailable talismans will be available with BNW but be very rare. I'm hoping that it's not like it was prior to the SQs. I had one death talisman prior to the skull quests after 5 months. That's a bit too rare.

With availability of the new and old talismans, proc rates changing, new characters (at least one from the BNW screenshot), tuning changes it should be a potentially brave new world in pvp. I'll definitely have to make some changes to my attack strategy and defense will likely need some tuning to adapt.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I like the thought of the meteor and comet talismans being potentially useful with a buff to damage. Although Comet being sorcery talismans will likely mean that they're still just dust collectors. Sadly, if there power cost remains the same they need to do some extreme damage to be worth using.

[Lulero]

I don't know that all of RTTH Eddie's changes can be considered buffs. Hack seems like it may actually be an unnecessary debuff. He's one of my favorite and the first Eddie I fully sharded, so it will be interesting to see if the changes make him viable. He's still selfish as far as his skill set.

Berserk: Increased damage scaling, plus a heal shield. Definitely a buff and one that he needed as his basic attack could many times do far more damage. Infinite Heal Block dealt with below.

Counter Stance: Change from Magic Reflect Shield to Counterstrike and Damage Reduction Shield for 3 turns. Major buff and probably one of the most useful.

Fixate: Increase from 50% to 100% chance for extra turn. Another good buff as he now should be able to get Perfect Hits even on defense. Probably not all that necessary on offense. It would be great if he could grant the whole team Perfect Hits, but that would probably be asking too much.

Disarming Strike: 30% chance for passive disable for 1 turn. A potentially good buff if it procs and can take advantage of it. It'll probably still be ineffective against GCR, but might help to stun a Harpy without a prisoner.

Hack: Change from a chance of inflicting Bleed, a nice but not overly powerful damage over time that has a chance to inflict heal block to simply a chance of inflicting heal block. Both skills made permanent by his Fury move. The extra turn increase from 50% to 100% is a bit curious as it doesn't add an extra turn on mine currently. Not sure if that's a mistake in the new and improved skill description, or whether he will now be granted an extra turn when using that move. The healing for 30% of ATK is most likely to be a band-aid on a gaping chest wound in pvp. With an extra turn this skill could be a buff, but if that's merely an error in tuning notes than I'd call this one a debuff. The damage over time could potentially be used by other members of the team to inflict more damage, and that's not the case with just a plain heal block.

Good points. About Hack, I'm hoping it does get the extra turn.


The fixes for the talismans I think will be one of the biggest changes. You mentioned energy and void. I think invisibility, thief, vampiric, penetrating and piercing. Also, I'm going to guess that it should affect explosive talismans. I don't have a set of those to test with, but I know when they proc against me in pvp they have a good chance to affect at least 3 of my team which seems a bit high for a 35% chance.

I mentioned only those 2 because among those affected they are the ones that are the most popular, hence part of the meta. See my opening post for what I think may happen in regard.
As for explosive, it would indeed be a big deal if affected as well, but they aren't augment, they proc on target and, I believe, working as intended.
Not saying they are balanced, especially after that update, but I'd be surprised to see that set affected.


It was mentioned that some of the presently unavailable talismans will be available with BNW but be very rare. I'm hoping that it's not like it was prior to the SQs. I had one death talisman prior to the skull quests after 5 months. That's a bit too rare.

IIRC the wording Sparton used was "it will take a very long time" to farm for one of those set. We do not know yet how it will work, but that particular way to phrase it made me think we might have a new currency similar to fragments.
Anyway, sorry for going out of topic.


With availability of the new and old talismans, proc rates changing, new characters (at least one from the BNW screenshot), tuning changes it should be a potentially brave new world in pvp. I'll definitely have to make some changes to my attack strategy and defense will likely need some tuning to adapt.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I like the thought of the meteor and comet talismans being potentially useful with a buff to damage. Although Comet being sorcery talismans will likely mean that they're still just dust collectors. Sadly, if there power cost remains the same they need to do some extreme damage to be worth using.

If BNW does come along with this update indeed, likely but I'm not getting my hopes up to avoid being disappointed.

[Askora]

It should be BNW. The images for the tuning notes are named pre-BNW tuning notes.

As for the explosive talismans, I think they're getting the same boost to probability. That's at least been my experience facing them in pvp. With a single target damager they may be working more as intended, but with an AoE attacker it is probably giving a 35% to proc on each toon for each toon standing. Meaning that if all 4 on your side are hit, it gets 4 chances at 35% to proc on each toon. At 35% proc rate they should on average affect 1 or possibly 2 of my team. Currently when they proc against me, it is usually 3 or all 4 members of my team, the only reason it may sometimes be 3 is because of immunity. Probably part of the reason they are so popular with those who have them. Nothing in the notes about them not stunning the harpies which is also a bug with them.