Loving that defense Nicko

[Ezz]

We should just call it win the toss or force quit!
I don't see how any team could possibly recover and win if they go second against that D
Well played sir!

[Nicko]

Thanks EZZ! There's a few ways the cards can fall and they don't always mean instant death - but certainly this is the best Hold percentage I've had in a while going into Friday.

Have to say though it pales in comparison to a beta defense I had. Talismans were broken and a Gunner Golden Son would freeze every opponent - with perfect hits guaranteed by a DM - and steal fury, instantly filling the fury meter of Tailgunner Eddie ( a Gimp made Trolls and Hellhounds ineffective). It was then lights out.

My Hold percentage in its best week was 60% :p

[angelkelly]

...........

[Nicko]

Well I just fought against nicko team and I must say it was instant death.
So if anything I wouldn't consider his team great nor appealing. More so bugged asf.

I agree. It sucks;)

[slauki]

i really do appreciate nickos teams from time to time, because they clearly show how broken some chars and mechanics are. otherwise many would still try to tell the story how "strong" specific characters are. they are not strong, they are completly out of line. same for explosives, stunning for one turn could be perfectly fine but making a singlehitter into a potential 2 tuns aoe stun machine (even harpies will get stunned) is absolutely ridiculous.


edit:
btw: that we can almost compare nicos defense nowadays with the broken beta defense says a lot too ;)

[Nicko]

Sarcasm at it's finest.
@Nicko the lousy Burrito.
Eat up champ, I know you love those wins. :)

Thanks Angel Kelly - you always charm with your posts :)

[Nicko]

i really do appreciate nickos teams from time to time, because they clearly show how broken some chars and mechanics are. otherwise many would still try to tell the story how "strong" specific characters are. they are not strong, they are completly out of line. same for explosives, stunning for one turn could be perfectly fine but making a singlehitter into a potential 2 tuns aoe stun machine (even harpies will get stunned) is absolutely ridiculous.


edit:
btw: that we can almost compare nicos defense nowadays with the broken beta defense says a lot too ;)

Hey Slauki - you know my Hold percentage - and it doesn't come close to those 60% Beta days ;)

And while I see the arguments as far as some of the talisman mechanics - most are getting fixed - and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to some griping. Players are complaining their Holds are falling - and once these Talisman adjustments occur they'll likely fall even more. AI simply can't compete with a human, so these little "broken" mechanics give the AI a glimmer of hope. Will players be ok with 12% Hold rates?

I think if the AI had 90% perfect hits we could do away with some of this stuff and still see decent Hold rates. The ability to check off whether to use power moves or not would also be really valuable. Who goes first will always be huge - but some easy tweaks like perfect hits and selectable power moves would allow reasonable Holds without having to rely on what you call "broken" mechanics.

[Patrice-1201]

isn't the issue though that if your defence goes second (like it just did against me) then it's instant death for your double Wrath :-( Which means that your hold percentage equals your coin toss success percentage ;-) so will be interested in seeing how much of these coin tosses you win ;-)

[slauki]

Hey Slauki - you know my Hold percentage - and it doesn't come close to those 60% Beta days ;)

And while I see the arguments as far as some of the talisman mechanics - most are getting fixed - and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to some griping. Players are complaining their Holds are falling - and once these Talisman adjustments occur they'll likely fall even more. AI simply can't compete with a human, so these little "broken" mechanics give the AI a glimmer of hope. Will players be ok with 12% Hold rates?

I think if the AI had 90% perfect hits we could do away with some of this stuff and still see decent Hold rates. The ability to check off whether to use power moves or not would also be really valuable. Who goes first will always be huge - but some easy tweaks like perfect hits and selectable power moves would allow reasonable Holds without having to rely on what you call "broken" mechanics.

you know i love needeling a bit :D it's not so broken like in early days for sure, but it's still kinda broken . pretty simple rule of common sense "if you cannot counter it, with all available tools it's broken".
i never think it's the fault of the player if the system is wrong so it's a really smart setup which i like too. would i use a similar defense if i was able? hell yeah i would :D .
all in all i don't expect too much of a difference after the BNW update aside the energy and the void shields. not sure if the explosives are on the radar of the devs, so i could imagine this team will still be very good for a long time. and it's really screwed, that such crucial talismans are only available for a few guys, at least this will come to an end soon.

but now i predict this following circle:

this setup will become more popular --> we will se more 2 wrath combos with similar setups --> it will kill the divesity of pvp and devide the players into "haves and not haves" and the complains will rise --->it might take some weeks or some months till devs realize this and then --> the inevitable nerf will come :P

hope they will find a better way, but i would place a 10$ bet on this :D i like he 90% perfect hit idea and the selectable powermove idea too, but this might take a while, i'm afraid...

[Nicko]

you know i love needeling a bit :D it's not so broken like in early days for sure, but it's still kinda broken . pretty simple rule of common sense "if you cannot counter it, with all available tools it's broken".
i never think it's the fault of the player if the system is wrong so it's a really smart setup which i like too. would i use a similar defense if i was able? hell yeah i would :D .
all in all i don't expect too much of a difference after the BNW update aside the energy and the void shields. not sure if the explosives are on the radar of the devs, so i could imagine this team will still be very good for a long time. and it's really screwed, that such crucial talismans are only available for a few guys, at least this will come to an end soon.

but now i predict this following circle:

this setup will become more popular --> we will se more 2 wrath combos with similar setups --> it will kill the divesity of pvp and devide the players into "haves and not haves" and the complains will rise --->it might take some weeks or some months till devs realize this and then --> the inevitable nerf will come :P

hope they will find a better way, but i would place a 10$ bet on this :D i like he 90% perfect hit idea and the selectable powermove idea too, but this might take a while, i'm afraid...

Disagree ;). I've faced a couple 2-Wrath defenses; they often aren't difficult. I had to try many combinations this week before this current configuration - SSD, Clairvoyant, Nomad, Shaman Eddie, VHE...

All of them were better than my last weeks dismal Hold percentage - which was below 20% - but it took the DM to give it some consistency (just as it did in my beta defense) - I don't think the difference maker is the second Wrath. When the energy talismans get adjusted I don't think you'll see 2 Wrath defenses unless combined with TWO toons who can feed him power (AG? Cyborg?) - and even then you're depending on the cards to fall in a very particular way.

My win rate this week so far is 98% - if we all had that then by definition defensive Hold rates would be 2%. I haven't faced Kamuz once - because the cards so often fall the same way when I face him - Wrath goes first - steals energy and removes buffs - Nomad power move - no energy to heal and facing a Beelze with Strikes. I faced him two times last Saturday and when the cards DIDN'T fall that way it was a fairly straightforward win. When these Talismans get adjusted I won't sweat facing him at all. I would imagine right now his Hold percentage is better than mine - it's mechanics are no different but it can win going second (mine doesn't have a prayer if it doesn't go first).

Our win rates will rise. Hold rates will fall. And people will gripe about not being able to Hold...

[Nicko]

And to support my theory Slauki - I've see more DMs today than ever before...

[Bradata]

Glass cannon but if starts first it's just killing it! I had a few wins against it before but today it got me twice :p
Good thinking, Nicko! I tried with 3 Wrath team and didn't like it and now I'm pissed that I sacrificed the 2 extra Wraths I had, not too long ago. I never thought of using the Marauder for this.

[Nicko]

Glass cannon but if starts first it's just killing it! I had a few wins against it before but today it got me twice :p
Good thinking, Nicko! I tried with 3 Wrath team and didn't like it and now I'm pissed that I sacrificed the 2 extra Wraths I had, not too long ago. I never thought of using the Marauder for this.

Well you modeled it close enough cause yours just got me! I went second and two of my guys were down from Explosives.

I'll keep telling you guys - it's not the second Wrath... ;)

[R1ck]

I managed to win one battle yesterday even going second, but had 3 losses before that one, always when one wrath goes first stealing energy the other one goes second with power move then either DM or navigator finishing my team without power to heal or revive.

If energy talismans weren't broken, it would be another history, I think it only happens because of that and i don't know why devs made an update some days ago and didn't include a fix for that.

[Bradata]

I'll tell you one thing guys, if anyone has a nose to smell the broken talismans and the toons to put them on it's Nicko. I've been playing PVP when it was still beta and he would always be the first to come up with some new and creative defense... and then we all follow in his footsteps ;)
My defense rate just went up 2% since I put the Marauder there.

[slauki]

is the second Wrath. When the energy talismans get adjusted I don't think you'll see 2 Wrath defenses unless combined with TWO toons who can feed him power (AG? Cyborg?) - and even then you're depending on the cards to fall in a very particular way.

it's a combination of wraths and explosives and energy for sure, as i stated before. explosives are equally crucial in the system so as stealing energy. we won't see 2 wrath defenses a lot because most doesn't have 2 wraths. but i can name you 4-5 guys who already copied part of the defense. and it will get more very week.
so part 1 of my prediction become reality much faster than i anticipated:D


I'll tell you one thing guys, if anyone has a nose to smell the broken talismans and the toons to put them on it's Nicko. I've been playing PVP when it was still beta and he would always be the first to come up with some new and creative defense... and then we all follow in his footsteps ;)
My defense rate just went up 2% since I put the Marauder there.

that's definetly true man, seems like a secret talent... nicko is one of the smartest players out there his defenses were always extremly solid. will never forget the legendary tailgunner, gunner golden son, desert marauder, prisoner defense. legendary as fuck :D and yeah everyone followed after some days.

[gmac]

that's definetly true man, seems like a secret talent... nicko is one of the smartest players out there his defenses were always extremly solid. will never forget the legendary tailgunner, gunner golden son, desert marauder, prisoner defense. legendary as fuck :D and yeah everyone followed after some days.


That was the best defense this game has ever known and probably ever will. It was so broken that Nicko even stopped using it in respect to other players. (don't actually think he should, it was not his fault, but that goes to show his character).

Yeah, good memories :)

But did not lose to Nicko yet... Others I have, eight times so far. Best one? Buttons gone missing of course, four times, impressive! (Devs, could you look into this?).

Glad I'm enjoying Shaolin x Carlos battle from the sidelines. Hope Kamuz, Nicko and others will join.

***gmac grabs popcorn***

[Ezz]

That was the best defense this game has ever known and probably ever will. It was so broken that Nicko even stopped using it in respect to other players. (don't actually think he should, it was not his fault, but that goes to show his character).

Yeah, good memories :)

But did not lose to Nicko yet... Others I have, eight times so far. Best one? Buttons gone missing of course, four times, impressive! (Devs, could you look into this?).

Glad I'm enjoying Shaolin x Carlos battle from the sidelines. Hope Kamuz, Nicko and others will join.

***gmac grabs popcorn***

Gmac- were u able to beat Nicko's defense going second?
I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has. Out of respect please do not disclose the team used if u have, I am just more interested to hear if it's possible!

[gmac]

Gmac- were u able to beat Nicko's defense going second?
I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has. Out of respect please do not disclose the team used if u have, I am just more interested to hear if it's possible!

Yes, I think I battle him 4 times, and I went second on 2 ocasions. Definitely possible :)

[Monte47]

I'm just amazed at how many perfect hits your AI gets lol. Of course, they give the perfects to your Wrath Nicko. Curses.
Cheers. Eskiggalu

[Bradata]

And now the servers are down, Nicko's defense broke them! :rolleyes:

[Nicko]

Gmac- were u able to beat Nicko's defense going second?
I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has. Out of respect please do not disclose the team used if u have, I am just more interested to hear if it's possible!

I know for a fact it's possible - a friend messaged me. I've done it in my testing too. Lots of variables - sometimes Nav goes first - sometimes DM uses power instead of Wrath -
Sometimes explosives don't trigger at all - sometimes Wrath doesn't remove enough buffs - etc

R1ck also mentioned in this thread he beat it once going second...

[slauki]

Gmac- were u able to beat Nicko's defense going second?
I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has. Out of respect please do not disclose the team used if u have, I am just more interested to hear if it's possible!

yeah it'S possible but it's tough and requires normal rng. and no way you can do this 100%, even 80%+ would be quite impressive but maybe doable.
i think there is no way to beat it going 2nd AND being somewhat unlucky...but maybe someone has figured out something better, so that's at least my experience so far.

[Nicko]

That was the best defense this game has ever known and probably ever will. It was so broken that Nicko even stopped using it in respect to other players. (don't actually think he should, it was not his fault, but that goes to show his character).

Yeah, good memories :)

But did not lose to Nicko yet... Others I have, eight times so far. Best one? Buttons gone missing of course, four times, impressive! (Devs, could you look into this?).

Glad I'm enjoying Shaolin x Carlos battle from the sidelines. Hope Kamuz, Nicko and others will join.

***gmac grabs popcorn***

I remember doing lots of testing on that and when it finally came together my eyes about popped out of my head! Yes - that was truly crazy - because it was truly broken!

Yup - GMAC of course tells the truth - every time I see his name it's not a Hold. And also the gentleman he didn't post his secrets - but that's part of the fun of a defense like this - figuring out how it works and then breaking it...

And this weeks race is all Carlos and Shaolin unless someone else jumps on board - I'm joining GMAC with the popcorn - and from the looks of things - Shaolin won't stop until he breaks 10,000...

[Nicko]

I'm just amazed at how many perfect hits your AI gets lol. Of course, they give the perfects to your Wrath Nicko. Curses.
Cheers. Eskiggalu

I'm either REALLY lucky - or one of the toons on the team is helping with that ;)

[slauki]

That was the best defense this game has ever known and probably ever will. It was so broken that Nicko even stopped using it in respect to other players. (don't actually think he should, it was not his fault, but that goes to show his character).

Yeah, good memories :)

true but after that he invented the mummy/ssd/prisoner combo the next big broken one :D


I'm either REALLY lucky - or one of the toons on the team is helping with that ;)

LMAO :D you luckbox...

[Chaosego888]

I'm 3-0 against it so far, sure it's not going to stay that way. Went 1st once and went 2nd the other two times. If you can win against this one I don't think you will have to worry much about the copycats because it's most likely they don't have the skill shards for both of them. Damn Nicko, How do you stay close to 20% hold rate? I haven't been above 16% since tauntfest. Every thing that presents a challenge gets nerfed into oblivion. I wouldn't even care about hold rates if they would just fix this dumbass points system to where it actually makes since to clear a list again. There is no point in taking a battle that gives 12 points, then lose 13 ... until Saturday

[Sag7272]

Have to say though it pales in comparison to a beta defense I had. Talismans were broken and a Gunner Golden Son would freeze every opponent - with perfect hits guaranteed by a DM - and steal fury, instantly filling the fury meter of Tailgunner Eddie ( a Gimp made Trolls and Hellhounds ineffective). It was then lights out.

My Hold percentage in its best week was 60% :p

Oh! I remember the good old days, with endless revenges we were battling back & forth literraly all week long :)

[Nicko]

Oh! I remember the good old days, with endless revenges we were battling back & forth literraly all week long :)

Those are still my favorite memories from this game - endless revenges with you and Pizza Friday :)

[Sag7272]

Those are still my favorite memories from this game - endless revenges with you and Pizza Friday :)

You are not alone..
It was the far west back then!

[Blacksteel]

And this weeks race is all Carlos and Shaolin unless someone else jumps on board - I'm joining GMAC with the popcorn - and from the looks of things - Shaolin won't stop until he breaks 10,000...

Yep, got the popcorn too, not going there.
Quite a defense you have there Nicko.
Actually it got me going on sort of an achievement challenge: 'Beat Nicko's defense without using any explosive talisman and after losing the coin toss, no Prisoner allowed'. (not that I have a Prisoner anyway).
NF Should give players a skill shard for completing that one, come to think of it, it would be rather nice if @NF was able to implement 'dynamic challenges' or at least 'surprise challenges'.

[Nicko]

Yep, got the popcorn too, not going there.
Quite a defense you have there Nicko.
Actually it got me going on sort of an achievement challenge: 'Beat Nicko's defense without using any explosive talisman and after losing the coin toss, no Prisoner allowed'. (not that I have a Prisoner anyway).
NF Should give players a skill shard for completing that one, come to think of it, it would be rather nice if @NF was able to implement 'dynamic challenges' or at least 'surprise challenges'.

1) Was hoping you'd be joining Carlos and Kamuz in the race tomorrow

2) Prisoner won't help - much ;). DM has immunity

[Blacksteel]

That would be great, but I might not be able to put in enough hours this morning, so good luck!.
BTW, I see you on the list now, let's see if we can complete that achievement.

[Monte47]

Lol. You got a bot in there Nicko? (Also, totally kidding). Just lost three coin tosses in a row. I am not above spending all my SOW to beat you sir😂

Edit: 4 in a row. I'm going back in lol

Edit 2: LU KANG WINS!

Lol, you are unbeatable without the coin toss win. Kudos.

[Kamuz24z]

Finally some challenge nicko it feels good when I see your team go down when I go second good shit man I encourage everyone who has two Wraths and a DM to try his team so far very entertaining

[Nicko]

Nicko your team will probably be getting reported to the dev this upcoming week. I dont think it's right nor fair for you to adavantage of a bug this serious. Then run to the dev complaing about invisible
being unseen.

Overall my message to you would be to practice what you preach.
Yes we all take advantage of bugs but once you start complaining to the dev that's when the line is drawn.

% Tbh I'm very surprise you didn't run your team by sparton or Kaz. Seeing how you run anything by them that doesn't work in your favor. But I'll wait until shit hits the fan. Then we all can run the same exact team. :)

You're right - i will go running to the developers - asking them to please implement an "Ignore" feature in this forum.

To shed a little light on our pal good ol' Angel - I sent him the following pm the other day after he removed one of his typical grade-school insult posts, which had also asked me what my Hold percentage was:

Hey - I hate when forum posts devolve into back-and-forth insult sessions and i simply won't participate. It's why I ignored your post.

With that being said - I thought it was really big of you to delete your last post in that thread - so happy to tell you my hold percentage - right now it's xx%.

I'd appreciate you not broadcasting it - a little mystery goes a long way

No response of course - and then he posts this little rant.

Do you even know how this defense works? Do you realize the inspiration came from other players like Kamuz and GMAC who are simply putting energy talismans on non-green characters? I got burned by Kamuz about 5 times in one week and GMAC a few times as well. All I did is take the idea and run with it. And the Invisibles didn't affect me at all - I was always above them - they affected other players - including some of my friends - so yes, I complained.

So go ahead- "Report my defense" ;) And go rant and rave and put other players including myself down. Your character shines through loud and clear my friend...

[Monte47]

Nicko your team will probably be getting reported to the dev this upcoming week. I dont think it's right nor fair for you to adavantage of a bug this serious. Then run to the dev complaing about invisible
being unseen.

Overall my message to you would be to practice what you preach.
Yes we all take advantage of bugs but once you start complaining to the dev that's when the line is drawn.

% Tbh I'm very surprise you didn't run your team by sparton or Kaz. Seeing how you run anything by them that doesn't work in your favor. But I'll wait until shit hits the fan. Then we all can run the same exact team. :)

I'm not seeing the bug. I lost because of coin toss and Talisman. His set up was better than mine to recover with. I beat him in almost one turn when I won the coin toss. He just has a ridiculously good set up. It's one player. Why not just skip him in your list? It's not really something to be up in arms over tbh.

[Nicko]

Finally some challenge nicko it feels good when I see your team go down when I go second good shit man I encourage everyone who has two Wraths and a DM to try his team so far very entertaining

Hey Trooper - you were the inspiration ;). Glad you had fun but have to say - after all the times you've burned me those Holds today were sweet ;)

I think I was getting way to much credit in this defense thread - guys like you, GMAC, Bradata, and many others have had some pretty sweet defenses.

And I'll go on record and say people ARE beating this defense going second. I've even gotten some pms about it which I always appreciate. Most liked the challenge.

With the upcoming Talisman adjustment things will change - but that's always been the nature of this game :)

[Nicko]

Lol. You got a bot in there Nicko? (Also, totally kidding). Just lost three coin tosses in a row. I am not above spending all my SOW to beat you sir😂

Edit: 4 in a row. I'm going back in lol

Edit 2: LU KANG WINS!

Lol, you are unbeatable without the coin toss win. Kudos.

I was watching - and I was hoping you would pull one off! Congrats!!!

[Monte47]

Hey Trooper - you were the inspiration ;). Glad you had fun but have to say - after all the times you've burned me those Holds today were sweet ;)

I think I was getting way to much credit in this defense thread - guys like you, GMAC, Bradata, and many others have had some pretty sweet defenses.

And I'll go on record and say people ARE beating this defense going second. I've even gotten some pms about it which I always appreciate. Most liked the challenge.

With the upcoming Talisman adjustment things will change - but that's always been the nature of this game :)

Was thinking with a bunch of beneficial effects stealers would be totally doable, but I was set on winning with my normal offense. You know, cuz I like wasting ironite😂

[Nicko]

I actually seen gmac and kamuz team and now where near did they have a flawed ace defense like yours. If so don't you think more people would of had their defense then yours.

Inspiration really??? I doubt you were inspired by these guys considering it took you a century to build a team like that. After the new introduce bug feast energy talisman became about, but since I seen through your evil ways. It was pretty clear what it was. You take what others considered op and bugged then put it together in a team then call it "inspiration".:):)

Now speaking on invisible you said the only reason you spoke up was because they affected other players. Yet I could say the same thing about explosives. Now where is my thread about that....Nicko

Now on to the post I deleted. I actually didn't mean any harm by it. It was actually just a joke but seeing how you didn't respond. I deleted it, I guess everything I say always turns into an insult rather then just being a joke. :(

Yeah - calling a guy "maam" isn't derogatory - it's just a joke - uhhh - ok.

Listen, this is the last response you get from me. Post what you like.

[mk ultra]

I got a team that can take all 4 perfect hits from nicko's team and survive. I lost 2 out of 3 times going second because: in the first try all toons were stunned from explosives, in the second run, only visions was not stunned but i had no energy ---> another one lost. Third time only one toon got stunned, i had enough energy, so i won.

[Blacksteel]

Not to throw shade into anyone but sometimes if people is getting upset at you, that means you did something right.
Or as someone said, "If video games have taught me anything, it's that if you're running into enemies, you're going in the right direction."
We are all friends here, so don't take it too seriously and enjoy the game, that's the point.

[Lulero]

I'm on a 38 wins streak, last 3 being Shaolindono, Kamuz and you Nicko, with toss against me.

You might not expect it Nicko, but invisible on your navigator helps me tons more than it hurts.
I stole it safe from triggering your void shields (as target was invisible) with my Undead Rescuer, who became a real issue to deal with.

[Blacksteel]

You might not expect it Nicko, but invisible on your navigator helps me tons more than it hurts.
I stole it safe from triggering your void shields (as target was invisible) with my Undead Rescuer, who became a real issue to deal with.

Ditto!!!!!!.

[Bradata]

From what I read here, I hope angelkelly is a girl, if not then... a rainbow guy! :p
Angelkelly, shut up!
I've seen your insults in other posts and ignored them but you're pushing it! This can be only expected from a girl who doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut or from a "mangirl" which I think is the case here.
... where is that ban button, guys!

[Nicko]

I'm on a 38 wins streak, last 3 being Shaolindono, Kamuz and you Nicko, with toss against me.

You might not expect it Nicko, but invisible on your navigator helps me tons more than it hurts.
I stole it safe from triggering your void shields (as target was invisible) with my Undead Rescuer, who became a real issue to deal with.

Three tough defenses for sure!

If Red Buzz has strikes he can lose invisibility pretty easily striking back - but if not - yeah, he could be a real pain as Invisible blockers don't take any damage.

At the same time - boosting Navs Fury with regular yellow or Thief talismans isn't great either, as his Fury is kind of mediocre.

Point taken ;)

[Silentknight]

Finally some challenge nicko it feels good when I see your team go down when I go second good shit man I encourage everyone who has two Wraths and a DM to try his team so far very entertaining

I could run the same team minus Navigator. Isn't there enuf copycats out there! Game is already boring a.f.!

[Monte47]

From what I read here, I hope angelkelly is a girl, if not then... a rainbow guy! :p
Angelkelly, shut up!
I've seen your insults in other posts and ignored them but you're pushing it! This can be only expected from a girl who doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut or from a "mangirl" which I think is the case here.
... where is that ban button, guys!

Hey! Nemesis! I'm a chica, and never shut up. FITEMEIRL BRO! 😂😂

[Nicko]

I could run the same team minus Navigator. Isn't there enuf copycats out there! Game is already boring a.f.!


I think to some degree we all borrow the same concepts - it's inevitable - if something seems effective it's going to get copied.

With that being said, Forum members Kamuz, Bradata, Lulero, Dave Murray (Twice!), and ChaosEgo have all broken the defense on the most recent page.

[Silentknight]

From what I read here, I hope angelkelly is a girl, if not then... a rainbow guy! :p
Angelkelly, shut up!
I've seen your insults in other posts and ignored them but you're pushing it! This can be only expected from a girl who doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut or from a "mangirl" which I think is the case here.
... where is that ban button, guys!
Haha! Aren't u glad Jofer retired. Next target!

[Bradata]

Hey! Nemesis! I'm a chica, and never shut up. FITEMEIRL BRO! 😂😂

Yea, but you don't insult people here and cry like one "chica". I hope Angelkelly is "chica" too.

[Bradata]

Haha! Aren't u glad Jofer retired. Next target!

Silent, tell me when you saw me posting something like that on the forums! Never! But some are really pushing it and I can't stay quiet!

[Silentknight]

I think to some degree we all borrow the same concepts - it's inevitable - if something seems effective it's going to get copied.

With that being said, Forum members Kamuz, Bradata, Lulero, Dave Murray (Twice!), and ChaosEgo have all broken the defense on the most recent page.
Sry but just won't do it. Variety is the spice of life! As long as the devs keep deciding who the next OP toon is it's never gunna change! I'll stick with my d, shitty or not! Considering defense accounts for about 20%(if that) who cares!

[Silentknight]

Silent, tell me when you saw me posting something like that on the forums! Never! But some are really pushing it and I can't stay quiet!

Don't blame u at all! Listened to her bullshit whining enuf! Just ignore it! Where's Trit when u need her...cat scrap!

[Lulero]

Three tough defenses for sure!

If Red Buzz has strikes he can lose invisibility pretty easily striking back - but if not - yeah, he could be a real pain as Invisible blockers don't take any damage.

At the same time - boosting Navs Fury with regular yellow or Thief talismans isn't great either, as his Fury is kind of mediocre.

Point taken ;)

On 45 wins now, taking a break but will resume later, the one after you was Carlos, lost toss again and managed again. That list was crazy.

On invisible, it's more about having something to do with my Undead Rescuer that doesn't help you more than it hurts because of void.
That's the part I'm most thankful for.

But the toons also gets both buffs, there's still the shield if he strikes back (after ignoring damages, still) on one attack next round.

[Nicko]

Silent, tell me when you saw me posting something like that on the forums! Never! But some are really pushing it and I can't stay quiet!

Bradata - he meant Angel Kelly used to troll Jofer...

[Bradata]

Don't blame u at all! Listened to her bullshit whining enuf! Just ignore it!

I already did, brother! That's my last post for today 'cause I have to go push some iron in the gim and then have a nice weekend! You, guy have a nice weekend too!
Peace!

[Silentknight]

Bradata - he meant Angel Kelly used to troll Jofer...

Lmao! U know me 2 well! ♡ the d too!

[Nicko]

On 45 wins now, taking a break but will resume later, the one after you was Carlos, lost toss again and managed again. That list was crazy.

On invisible, it's more about having something to do with my Undead Rescuer that doesn't help you more than it hurts because of void.
That's the part I'm most thankful for.

But the toons also gets both buffs, there's still the shield if he strikes back (after ignoring damages, still) on one attack next round.

I changed it just for kicks. Not sure it will affect it one way or another, but will be interesting to see and thanks for the heads up!

[Silentknight]

I already did, brother! That's my last post for today 'cause I have to go push some iron in the gim and then have a nice weekend! You, guy have a nice weekend too!
Peace!

Good call! Outta here too, back later...maybe. C how the bugs/freezes go!

[Lulero]

I changed it just for kicks. Not sure it will affect it one way or another, but will be interesting to see and thanks for the heads up!

Dunno if I would have, not sure if there's a lot other people going against you with only redbuzz & cyborg (scan) for debuff.
Mostly pure damage with one or two exception(s) is pretty common though.

EDIT: That being said, hi-jacking topic a bit to say it feels good after the horrible mid-week I had (lost 3 legit games in a row to someone, 4 ATMA3 on one single list ...). Noticed my troopers and took a break, now crawling back up for a decent finish and very glad to find it enjoyable. Only downside is I had to switch Death Dog out, as much as I like him not sure next update will be enough.

[Mariner-1212]

Wish I had the energy to climb the ladder and go up against Nicko's defense, haha. I'm dying to see this new one, the last defense was wiping me out before I'd get a chance to hit! I'll have to wait for the reset later tonight and then cheat in and go against it.

I'll say this - the innovation that some of you guys put forth in your defense is really inspiring and fun. The best times in PVP are when you come across those squads that leave you wondering what the f just happened. Keep up the good work guys! \m/

[T-Man]

That D is wicked indeed Nicko! Going first no problem, but 2nd? Brutal! I may have finally figured it out (I hope). ;)
Btw Prisoner passive is not working on DM, and Assn Pyro.

[Lulero]

@T-Man: Most desert marauders and pyros featured in defense setups have immunity tali set for that exact reason.
It probably would be dropped for something better if not for prisoner.
But since that perfect hit passive is the #1 reason you want those toons, and because your other characters depend on it, you can't allow it to be disabled.

You checked for that?

EDIT: See this video by Kris-0707 against my defense before I used that set: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfUAmcw4I8&feature=youtu.be)

[T-Man]

@T-Man: Most desert marauders and pyros featured in defense setups have immunity tali set for that exact reason.
It probably would be dropped for something better if not for prisoner.
But since that perfect hit passive is the #1 reason you want those toons, and because your other characters depend on it, you can't allow it to be disabled.

You checked for that?

EDIT: See this video by Kris-0707 against my defense before I used that set: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfUAmcw4I8&feature=youtu.be)


"Passive Agression inflicts passive disable on ALL enemies on the first turn."
Marksman is their passive and should be disabled.
What am I missing here? This has to be another bug.

[Lulero]

If a character has immunity, it cannot be affected by a debuff like "passive disable". That's intended and part of the "prisoner nerf" update.

If immunity is granted during the fight, the prisoner or any other toon with a way to affect an opponent with "passive disable" won't be able to do so.
If the toon was already passive disabled, it will still be but the debuff can't be refreshed. If it wasn't, "passive disable" can't be applied while immunity is on.

At the start of the fight:

If immunity would be granted by a passive (Hellhound, Artillery Dog), the game logic gives priority to the prisoner, immunity not granted and passive disabled.

If immunity is granted by a talisman set, thus not disabled by prisoner, it protects the wearer from "passive disable".

[Monte47]

So, there is some angst about the energy Talisman. My usual offense, which I sadly changed up the last two weeks and paid percentages for, is Visions, Wrath, Artillery Dog, and Prisoner.

I have energy Talisman on Visions. I steal power from the enemy, Wrath does his special, I blow them up with Artillery Dog.

Twice, at least today, the defense has been at zero power, and both MCR, AND GCR have been able to use specials. I know this bug is there, because the second time I watched to make sure they were at zero when I was done.

That said, my point is, energy doesn't make that huge a difference sometimes.

[Ezz]

Guess I don't have the right toons skillsharded. Tried a new offense and I just lost again against that D.
I'm now 2 for 2 when going first and 0 for 3 when going second.
At least on my last loss I was able to take out one of your wraths and last a few rounds!

[T-Man]

If a character has immunity, it cannot be affected by a debuff like "passive disable". That's intended and part of the "prisoner nerf" update.

If immunity is granted during the fight, the prisoner or any other toon with a way to affect an opponent with "passive disable" won't be able to do so.
If the toon was already passive disabled, it will still be but the debuff can't be refreshed. If it wasn't, "passive disable" can't be applied while immunity is on.

At the start of the fight:

If immunity would be granted by a passive (Hellhound, Artillery Dog), the game logic gives priority to the prisoner, immunity not granted and passive disabled.

If immunity is granted by a talisman set, thus not disabled by prisoner, it protects the wearer from "passive disable".

So basically Immunity Talisman blocks the Prisoner's passive? I gotta say, if that is the case, I missed the memo. :D
Seriously that doesn't make sense to me, but you may have just opened a new strategy for me. So thanks.

[Monte47]

So basically Immunity Talisman blocks the Prisoner's passive? I gotta say, if that is the case, I missed the memo. :D
Seriously that doesn't make sense to me, but you may have just opened a new strategy for me. So thanks.

If you think about it though, it makes sense. Prisoner doesn't block the buffs of any other talisman, just the passive s of the toons. The immunity talis is a way around his block.

[Nicko]

So basically Immunity Talisman blocks the Prisoner's passive? I gotta say, if that is the case, I missed the memo. :D
Seriously that doesn't make sense to me, but you may have just opened a new strategy for me. So thanks.

And of course this only works the first round - unless you have 2 sets of immunity Talismans. After that he has a 50% chance to block the passive

[T-Man]

If you think about it though, it makes sense. Prisoner doesn't block the buffs of any other talisman, just the passive s of the toons. The immunity talis is a way around his block.

I just never put that together. Lol
Thinking more about it, if the Prisoner has immunity talisman, his passive should be protected too. Lol
So then, does this only affect Prisoner's passive? I'm trying to think of other toons that this would affect.

[T-Man]

And of course this only works the first round - unless you have 2 sets of immunity Talismans. After that he has a 50% chance to block the passive


Yes got that part. Thanks.

Btw Love the pumpkins yesterday. ;)

You were my 2nd to last match yesterday, and I was 11th trying to hit the top 10. You and Blacksteel were the 2 highest ranked on my board with a few mins left before reset. 2 of the best defenses I faced last week too.

I clenched my teeth as I hit battle. Lmao when I saw your team. :cool:

I was not so lucky against Blacksteel as he went first every single time I faced him. End of story is I missed 10th by 14 points.

Btw I finally figured out how to beat him going 2nd after the reset. Go figure. Lol

Thanks everyone for the breakdown.

[Monte47]

I just never put that together. Lol
Thinking more about it, if the Prisoner has immunity talisman, his passive should be protected too. Lol
So then, does this only affect Prisoner's passive? I'm trying to think of other toons that this would affect.

the immunity would only be worth it to keep him from being froze or stunned. They last for one round I think, and his passive generally works the first round anyway in my experience.

Well, it makes the toon immune. Therefore, yes. It would work against other toons passive. But, I'd have to test and see if say, NBoL could still revenge or counter. I always offense with prisoner, so I'm not sure on that. Also, this made my brain hurt for some reason lol. TOOO MUCH LOTB!

[Nicko]

Yes got that part. Thanks.

Btw Love the pumpkins yesterday. ;)

You were my 2nd to last match yesterday, and I was 11th trying to hit the top 10. You and Blacksteel were the 2 highest ranked on my board with a few mins left before reset. 2 of the best defenses I faced last week too.

I clenched my teeth as I hit battle. Lmao when I saw your team. :cool:

I was not so lucky against Blacksteel as he went first every single time I faced him. End of story is I missed 10th by 14 points.

Btw I finally figured out how to beat him going 2nd after the reset. Go figure. Lol

Thanks everyone for the breakdown.

Glad you found it!

Black Steel and Kamuz had done the same thing the past couple weeks - I think it's a great gesture in the last 5 or 10 minutes if you have your position locked up.

Black Steel has a nice setup - tried to freeze me first round but fortunately I had two with immunity and only 1 of my 4 toons froze so i pulled it off...

[Nicko]

the immunity would only be worth it to keep him from being froze or stunned. They last for one round I think, and his passive generally works the first round anyway in my experience.

Well, it makes the toon immune. Therefore, yes. It would work against other toons passive. But, I'd have to test and see if say, NBoL could still revenge or counter. I always offense with prisoner, so I'm not sure on that. Also, this made my brain hurt for some reason lol. TOOO MUCH LOTB!

Think of it this way - any toon with immunity talismans will not have their passive blocked by the prisoner - whether the Prisoner has Immunity talismans or not. After that he has a 50% chance to block their passive. So if you have immunity talismans on your Newborn, AoS, GCR, etc - the Prisoner will not block them first round. he may block them the following rounds.

Easy as pie :)

It also brings up a good point many people don't seem to think about. I see a trend towards Prisoners with Strike talismans - and many seem to not have immunity. What they don't realize is that because there is no immunity on their Prisoner, if you bring you OWN Prisoner it blocks the opposing Prisoners passive (remember - he has no immunity) and all your attacking toons passives will work first round.

Hope that makes sense!

[T-Man]

Testing this in the Arena test area I found weird results.

Artillery Dog Assn with immunity talisman vs Prisoner also with immunity talisman (if that matters).

If the Prisoner team goes first, the immunity symbol appears over the AD team for a split second then disappears.

If the AD team goes first the immunity is there, then disappears before the Prisoner's team has their first offensive turn.

It should be just the opposite.

Not sure if this is just the Arena test area being wonky or what.

More test needed I suppose.

Edit: Testing in the Prisoner Underworld area, AD's passive was indeed active.

[T-Man]

the immunity would only be worth it to keep him from being froze or stunned. They last for one round I think, and his passive generally works the first round anyway in my experience.

Well, it makes the toon immune. Therefore, yes. It would work against other toons passive. But, I'd have to test and see if say, NBoL could still revenge or counter. I always offense with prisoner, so I'm not sure on that. Also, this made my brain hurt for some reason lol. TOOO MUCH LOTB!

Making my brain hurt too. Lol

[T-Man]

Think of it this way - any toon with immunity talismans will not have their passive blocked by the prisoner - whether the Prisoner has Immunity talismans or not. After that he has a 50% chance to block their passive. So if you have immunity talismans on your Newborn, AoS, GCR, etc - the Prisoner will not block them first round. he may block them the following rounds.

Easy as pie :)

It also brings up a good point many people don't seem to think about. I see a trend towards Prisoners with Strike talismans - and many seem to not have immunity. What they don't realize is that because there is no immunity on their Prisoner, if you bring you OWN Prisoner it blocks the opposing Prisoners passive (remember - he has no immunity) and all your attacking toons passives will work first round.

Hope that makes sense!


Good explanation. :cool:
I didn't have the Prisoner before the nerf, but know he was deadly in the Arena then.

I did notice that with the Prisoner. Makes perfect sense to put Immunity on him as he requires that color talisman anyway.

Very cool of you guys doing that in the arena. Props to you all!

[Nicko]

Testing this in the Arena test area I found weird results.

Artillery Dog Assn with immunity talisman vs Prisoner also with immunity talisman (if that matters).

If the Prisoner team goes first, the immunity symbol appears over the AD team for a split second then disappears.

If the AD team goes first the immunity is there, then disappears before the Prisoner's team has their first offensive turn.

It should be just the opposite.

Not sure if this is just the Arena test area being wonky or what.

More test needed I suppose.

I know there were issues before with Artillery Dogs and Hellhounds - sounds like they haven't been resolved

[T-Man]

I know there were issues before with Artillery Dogs and Hellhounds - sounds like they haven't been resolved

Must be. I
Just tried this in a actual arena battle with AD against this team.
AD passive was disabled from the start.

Vs. Kolt
CRG invis
Pris Thief
Vis ?
Clar Life

[Jofer16]

Glad you found it!

Black Steel and Kamuz had done the same thing the past couple weeks - I think it's a great gesture in the last 5 or 10 minutes if you have your position locked up.

Black Steel has a nice setup - tried to freeze me first round but fortunately I had two with immunity and only 1 of my 4 toons froze so i pulled it off...

Yeah I started this the 1st month of arena for some laughs. My favorites were the all Christmas team and 3 Prisoners lol

[T-Man]

Yeah I started this the 1st month of arena for some laughs. My favorites were the all Christmas team and 3 Prisoners lol

He lives!!! Lol. Now that you mention it, I remember seeing that.

[Coletrain]

Perhaps it's just me, but ever since this detailed discussion regarding immunity and the prisoners passive, there's been an uptick in prisoners and desert marauders in defenses, both with immunity. The power of this forum is quite amusing.

[T-Man]

Perhaps it's just me, but ever since this detailed discussion regarding immunity and the prisoners passive, there's been an uptick in prisoners and desert marauders in defenses, both with immunity. The power of this forum is quite amusing.

Yes, and the AAD as well. Speaking of AAD, immunity talisman does not protect his passive against the Prisoner in the Arena. I've verified it several times now. No wonder I was confused about this. He was a main stay in my old defense and my original test dummy.

[90mphyorker]

I fought it for the first time a week back and won easily. I thought to myself 'That's a pretty easy defence for a top player' and carried on my merry way. Since this thread has been opened you haven't appeared on my list until now. Tosses both lost and wasted 2 SoW. Well played. Be interesrting to see how effective it is when the energy Talismans are fixed.

Though if they are fixed when BNW is released I can imagine 2 Wrath's with those Immortallity Talismans being fun to face!

[R1ck]

It seems defenses with 2 wraths are starting to spread, would it be a good choice to spend 13 skillshards, will try .

[Nicko]

It seems defenses with 2 wraths are starting to spread, would it be a good choice to spend 13 skillshards, will try .

It took a lot of testing to get mine to where I was happy with it and is much more challenging with the energy Talisman adjustment - but it can work

I saw a three Wrath defense over the weekend and had to chuckle. I won my FOURTH over the weekend and entertained the idea of sharding him as a joke - who knows - I may get bored and do it - each with a different Talisman set.

[Silentknight]

It took a lot of testing to get mine to where I was happy with it and is much more challenging with the energy Talisman adjustment - but it can work

I saw a three Wrath defense over the weekend and had to chuckle. I won my FOURTH over the weekend and entertained the idea of sharding him as a joke - who knows - I may get bored and do it - each with a different Talisman set.

3 Wraths don't mean shit & u know that...not the key 2 that d! Have faced it 5-6X, gone 2nd 4 of em...undefeated! That said, if anyone can make it work u can!

[Nicko]

3 Wraths don't mean shit & u know that...not the key 2 that d! Have faced it 5-6X, gone 2nd 4 of em...undefeated! That said, if anyone can make it work u can!

I think you're partially right - three Wraths means nothing - agree 100%

But coukd I make it work? I honestly don't think it would be better than my current defense...but if I get bored enough we may find out ;)

[Silentknight]

I think you're partially right - three Wraths means nothing - agree 100%

But coukd I make it work? I honestly don't think it would be better than my current defense...but if I get bored enough we may find out ;)
I think ur right!

[Blacksteel]

I think you're partially right - three Wraths means nothing - agree 100%

But coukd I make it work? I honestly don't think it would be better than my current defense...but if I get bored enough we may find out ;)

I agree, 3 would be more of a 'brute force' approach, it will be a dangerous team, sure, but I don't think necessarily better, it would be quite a sight tho.

[Silentknight]

I agree, 3 would be more of a 'brute force' approach, it will be a dangerous team, sure, but I don't think necessarily better, it would be quite a sight tho.

Look 4 diabolos

[Nicko]

Nicko did you so happen to stumble across caliza12 team yet???
Isn't it quite creative and unique.
Lol....I wonder if you fought against him yet or should I say how did it go.

Ha! Yeah, I've faced the two Wrath attack a time or two as I was testing my defense over...and over...and over...so felt pretty prepared

But have only faced Caliza's new team once. Good match - but got him.

What I really wanted to face was Diabolos' three-Wrath assault - but by the time I found him he had already changed it out...

[Patrice-1201]

Ha! Yeah, I've faced the two Wrath attack a time or two as I was testing my defense over...and over...and over...so felt pretty prepared

But have only faced Caliza's new team once. Good match - but got him.

What I really wanted to face was Diabolos' three-Wrath assault - but by the time I found him he had already changed it out...

Diabolo's 3 Wrath defence was really easy to take down... guess it missed a few shards...

[IceManFerrar]

For some odd reason I actually found his team to be quite difficult to beat. Idk why???
Maybe it had something to do with his talisman build or something.
But it wasn't fun nor great kind of reminded me of why i never watch Freddy or Jason at night.
Now if only I could figure out your team. That would be great. :)

Got my curiosity up...what is his team?