Done with BNW after 30 hours

[slauki]

Hey guys,

the euphoria vanished, the first playthrough rewards were taken and now the truth comes to light. BNW is really okay and a nice feature, i do think the devs did a very good job creating it (aside the year of development ofc), but the concept behind BNW is clearly flawed.

Well i could really write an essay, but i will try to focus on the main problem:

After 30hours I have samples of approx 30-35 rounds of all kind of level X BNW dungeons and all we have is a vampiric talisman. The rest are evo runes and xp runes. Sparton already said that some talismans will be hard to get, but if this trend continues this is far out of line.

Well let's think about it for a while and let's make the following assumptions:

1. level x can be done within 6 minutes (i need 8 atm some need 15+)
2. you will get a random talisman 5% of the time (every 20 runs seems realistic)
3. casual players have time to play 5 levels per day on average in addition with the 50 troopers

20 runs of BNW will take exactly 120 minutes or 2 hours to play, if you play it optimal. 3-4 hours are far more realistic for the most of us. In addition to this 300 SOT are needed (approx 113 ironite). So it's a decent investment ironitewise and an extraordinary investment timewise just to get one random talisman.

can you imagine now, how long it will take to get another 4set of echoes (non skilled)?
A casual player will need to play several weeks to get a full set at all. and the hardcore refiller will also have a hard time, getting this since it's not possible at the moment to autoplay the hardest stages. so we have to use out manpower and do every single click on our own, spend a ton of stuff to get very little in exchange. this will get old really soon, and it will be a 6-8 minute pain every time. not sure how many are going for this, but i'm sure i won't.

One of the biggest complains since pvp is that the player need too much time to fulfill the daily obligations of the game. 50 troopers are a ton and now we have BNW which is another huge time sink. But investing time and ironite for very little in exchange is a bad deal, and this whole concept is flawed. what do you guys expect, should we really play this game all day long and spend ironite every day just to equip our team with the necessary talismans and skillshards? That's not the way to go for me. If you expect big investments in time and in game currency the rewards should be worth it. right now the ROI is more than horrible.

Don't get me wrong i love the new challange and the new bosses. The feature is pretty good but it's a pain for farming it all day long, especially with these reward structures.

I'm sure more of these complains will come very soon. So let me know, what do you think about this. And more important, let the devs know, what to do better.


BTW: suggestions for a better BNW:

- reduce the sot costs
- increase the total sot to 100
- let us use several troopers in BNW
- implement skillshards in BNW 5% of the time
- implement g/a souls there another 5% of the time
- improve the droprate for talismans by a fair margin
- improve the xp rune drops too
- improve the ironite and sot drops there
- let more rewards drop there (range 4-7 rewards)

If you guys implement some of this suggestions, BNW will be worth the time and the ironite. Until then, i'm back playing powerslave and GOD again.

[DaveMurray]

Thanks slauki for that, you wrote exactly what i was thinking. No point to add anything.
So after many rounds i got to admit that i lost a lot of ironite, my day and i gained a headache and 1 talisman.
Totally not worth it atm. I am only going to play a few rounds when LoL is not available and when we have a BNW based event.

[mjmxiii]

Damn Slauki,

You nail it every time man! I agree 100% with you on this. I was just thinking today that NF should really give us the option to go 5 troopers deep! All this SoT and time and then PvP on top of it, now BNW? Why is it that if we don't like it we can just not play? That is basically the option, the only one.They invest a year of their time making this really cool dungeon and we can barely play it because they put a governor on the feature to regulate how often we play. It is pretty weak to stick with them through the ups and downs over the past year only to get hosed again with another P2P.

I would really like to see the impossible:

1. Skull Quests - Same drop rates, cheaper SoT cost. No level should cost more than 8 SoT! Change Talisman Cache and Horde levels to something more useful!
2. BNW - Better drop rates for new Talismans and evo runes. Hard to believe it took a year and still feels like it needs some fine tuning. At this point, after you get the achievement rewards, it's just a waste of time and resources.
3. Troopers - 5 allowed per level! C'mon NF, you know we love the game and helping out other players, but why make us prove it everyday with the 50 runs? Multiples of 5 would bring the GoD runs to 10 max! That would save us a little ironite for LoL, BNW and Skull quests.
4. It should really cost 10 ironite across the board to revive your team! 40 ironite? Really?

I know I'm asking for a million dollars here, so I won't ask again for a while. The work you guys do is great but it really is whale fishing as opposed to hooking up the people the right way for all the right reasons.

Open the game up NF... just a little bit would go so far! I get where you're coming from... We're all shooting for the stars, some are just aiming for different quadrants! :D
Cheers

[Aristo4]

As usual not much to add after Slauki :p

I'm at around 10 runs on all kinds of levels X with zero talisman drops (first runs aside). While BNW looks cool, its a challenge to get it right etc....why should I farm it with such low expectations/so high cost/time needed?

Noone saying BNW should be easy and give you exactly what you need in 1 run guaranteed......but things so far seem to be extremely non-rewarding :rolleyes:

[Hypnos]

Spot on mate, would like to see skull quests SoT costs reduced as well. With up to three troopers playable at one time.

We shouldn't be expected to continue spending a large chunk of our day playing the skull quests, all troopers and on top of that farming the dungeons now. I'm beginning to see this for what it truly is: a full-time job with no benefits.

[MrFreeze]

I ran fear VII on auto for a while last night hoping for runes more than anything. For 15 SOT, it didn't seem like the drops where much better than underworld madness. The quantities they drop in are very low compared to the shard drops in LOL. I don't know why the devs like to starve us, but they do. I think there must be some unwritten philosophy on mobile games that says giving too much is bad. It's ok for us to give too much time though.


Edit: This is what I'm talking about. It's probably considered a good drop for VII. Not in my opinion. The quantities need to be higher for 15 SoT.

3471

[Ian]

I'd have no issue with the time and SoT requirements for BNW only if we could use play 2 troopers per level. As it stands, I really like the new level - I'll happily repeat myself here, the artistry is superb - but yesterday I didn't have time to actually play it - the highest levels are not exactly quick blasts like LoL or any regular levels; didn't even have time to get through my SoW in the Arena after playing all my troopers, just like most days. I'm not even too bothered by how often the talismans drop, but the time taken to play troopers every day is becoming very wearisome.

[Zapathusara]

Agree with all you said.
BNW is a f**king awesome addition, really challanging. But there is no point if there is no long term rewards.

I like how they increased the challange by adding talis and Modifiers in the late levels, this is a long term solution to make PvE fun even for late gamers.

All that (re)said, lets take a look in the possible solutions:




BTW: suggestions for a better BNW:

- reduce the sot costs
- increase the total sot to 100


I'm okay with the costs, if they change drop rates (see below). One run takes to much time, so the SoT spend match the real time exp.

That said, raise the SoT to 100. I dont think it will impact farm in a bad way, and we have too much to do between troopers amd dungeons, to say just SoT modes. Add PvP and we are talking about lots of real life time.




- let us use several troopers in BNW


the issue is that we know they in develop wit a Coop game mode. Maybe something like raids in Marvel Avengers Allience was.

But mult trooper in dungeons can be a temporally solution (and let more players get high rank talis using late game troopers)



- implement skillshards in BNW 5% of the time
- implement g/a souls there another 5% of the time


BNW is about talis. Souls and fragments should be the Silent Planet theme (see "demons of creation" in the coming never popup). Skillshards could be LoL, but to be fair, they'll be something apart ever.




- improve the droprate for talismans by a fair margin
- improve the xp rune drops too
- improve the ironite and sot drops there
- let more rewards drop there (range 4-7 rewards)


THIS. The flaw with BNW is the reward. There is none (besides the first run). In my mind, there should be a progression in drops. Lets take Garden of Life. If Shell/Imune starts to drop at lvl VII, they should drop more in later levels. When I do a lvl IX, I expect to see good amounts of Chance and Advantage ones, a fair amount of Shell/Imune or Guard, and if Im luck, Quake and Zone.

I expect to get one (and sometimes two) talis per run. If Im unluckly, none of them but a good amount of xp material, Im ok with that. In a luckly day, I'd get what I want. The rest of time, just fair drops instead of this nothing we have now.

*************

So, after this big wall of text (sorry), I advocate that the solution is increase talis drop rates, with the progression on the quality of them (few late talis, more of the middle ones).

Spend 15 SoT plus 7min in manual and get nothing should never be the rule.

[Patrice-1201]

I think you said it all.

I love the feature but now that I completed it, I won't spend 15 ironites on another run for almost no reward.

Another thing is that with all the crashes this has already cost me around 500 ironite... so i might occasionally ply a level or to just because it is awesome and challenging but that's it.

The thing though is that PVP is all about Talismans not souls so maybe they have us by the b@!!$...

[Nicko]

I think you said it all.

I love the feature but now that I completed it, I won't spend 15 ironites on another run for almost no reward.

Another thing is that with all the crashes this has already cost me around 500 ironite... so i might occasionally ply a level or to just because it is awesome and challenging but that's it.

The thing though is that PVP is all about Talismans not souls so maybe they have us by the b@!!$...

I don't think they have us by the balls Patrice - and go back to the Jofer analogy. He was winning with a relatively small roster and only key toons sharded - PvP is more about your strategy and fortitude - the willingness to commit yourself to a fairly grueling competition on the last day. Talismans may give you an edge in defense - but I think on offense they'll be icing on the cake. Will we want them? Of course - like a kid wants a toy in the toy store - but if mom says no and distracts the kid - they'll be fine.

The thing about a thread like this is I don't think anyone wants to come off as ungrateful - I think everyone is excited BNW is here and the actual implementation is really cool. But there's no way to sugarcoat it - the rewards suck.

I'm not wasting my time farming Lvl 10 - too much time - so I did about ten rounds of Dismay level 8 last night. The talisman reward? One Vampiric...

I will continue to explore this simply because it's new - but honestly - no way that will last. It's just not worth it. Challenge is good with an evolving story - and the fact that this is challenging bodes really well for Night City - but to have to manually play a level ten times - an hours worth of work - for one talisman? I don't think many people have the time. And from what I'm seeing - most of the comments in this thread are coming from people who play a lot - so I can only imagine what the casual player thinks...

I do disagree with Osiris a bit though - a talisman every run might be TOO much (at least for the highly desirable ones). I don't want every Assassin I face to be loaded with immortality - then the gripes they've ruined PvP will come - so I think balance is in order.

This will get adjusted - it has to. No one will play it otherwise - and that's a lot of work they've put in only for the feature to collect dust. And no playing = no spending - so they'll get it after the initial excitement wears off. It's new and we're all glad it's here - but an adjustment is needed. Thanks for starting this thread Slauki - cause I can't imagine anyone playing BNW right now thinks anything else

[Mariner-1212]

Great analysis, spot on.

I ran it last night, took 15 mins to complete the level, 15 SOT - got a 1* red evo rune and a 2* red evo rune. Something must be off, that can't possibly be how it's supposed to work.

On another note, Shadow Of The Valley (the 6th level) in Underworld is dropping multiple 3* rainbow evo runes almost every single round. I'm up to 228. So if you're looking for a boost in evolving these talismans, head on over.

[Ancient Mariner]

I think you said it all.

I love the feature but now that I completed it, I won't spend 15 ironites on another run for almost no reward.


wait, you meant 15 SoT, right?

[Lulero]

Nice post and suggestions, as always Slauki. Just wanna add one:

Add the ability to turn lvl 50 talis into a "core" or something, and a shop featuring all those talis available for at most 3 of those "cores" (have to match colors):
- gives players something to do with talis they don't use anymore
- allows to turn evo materials into talis should they be overflowing with those
- allows to turn ironite into talis by purchasing said materials
- short term fix to drop rates

[Bradata]

Slauki is right 100% on this BNW BS!
I mean, more than a year of waiting for this and now when it's out I don't even want to go there and play it. Did them all the first day when they were available, got the talismans rewards and after playing few more high levels and not getting anything in return of my 15 SoT per play I said F this.
One year waiting for this! Common!
I am not sure if it was mentioned somewhere but are those new toons gonna be available to get any time, anywhere soon?

[Lulero]

Open souls you got since update Bradata :)

[Bradata]

Open souls you got since update Bradata :)

Thanks! I did but same mofos like before :(

[thealchemist]

I ran fear VII on auto for a while last night hoping for runes more than anything. For 15 SOT, it didn't seem like the drops where much better than underworld madness. The quantities they drop in are very low compared to the shard drops in LOL. I don't know why the devs like to starve us, but they do. I think there must be some unwritten philosophy on mobile games that says giving too much is bad. It's ok for us to give too much time though.


Edit: This is what I'm talking about. It's probably considered a good drop for VII. Not in my opinion. The quantities need to be higher for 15 SoT.

3471

I haven't done that many runs yet but I am yet to see multiples of 3* evo runes and no 4* runes either. So I would be happy with that myself.
I don't get why they are bothering with 2* evo runes outside of floors I-V when they are more easily farmed in the campaign world. Give us 3* only from floors VI and above.

[aXe]

All great ideas. The Troopers fix in particular. Hopefully NF will take all this on board. Great dungeon just bad execution.

[JJJ428]

I am opened some rare souls and got the warrior corrupt rescuer,

[Peppoah]

Very good post, slauki.
I'm not finished with all the levels in BNW yet, but I got bored a bit when I played level 9 and it took me for about 45 minutes. Maybe I didn't have the right team, but it
seemed like forever. The game got so time consuming. I thought that I don't want to play BNW too often.
Just one question to all of you: I'm always short of three star blue evo runes. I did farm them before BNW in Kingdom of sands madness. They dropped there but hardly and it did cost only 4 SOT. After the release of BNW they don't drop there anymore. Where is the best place to farm for them now? Garden of Dismay? Which level? How many at a time? 8 SOT in the first level? Do they drop there or only in higher levels?
Any Tipps are appreciated.

I agree with all the suggestions that were made before.

[Ezz]

I really do like bnw but I have to admit the drops from farming are disappointing. I farmed garden of dismay levels 8&9 around 8 times tonight with one vampiric talisman and a handful of 3 star runes to show for it. That's quite a commitment of time and SOT for some paltry rewards.

I really don't mind the SOT cost, the time required to farm, or the trooper issue. But the rewards need to be improved, even just a little bit. If I had received an immortal talisman and some 4 and 5 star runes tonight I would have been satisfied.

[Nifelheim]

I think devs did everything right with BNW. Most will not finish in 30 hours, and it should take more than 2 days to farm all the new talismans. I wouldn't expect night city for a minimum of 4 months. The higher cost is a balance to space out time between BNW, using all your troopers, orig campaign/LoL, and pvp. No one should feel "bored".

[slauki]

I think devs did everything right with BNW. Most will not finish in 30 hours, and it should take more than 2 days to farm all the new talismans. I wouldn't expect night city for a minimum of 4 months. The higher cost is a balance to space out time between BNW, using all your troopers, orig campaign/LoL, and pvp. No one should feel "bored".

the higher costs should be balanced within the rewards too, that's the main point here:

investing 15 sot and many real life time for a level 8 dungeon to get this is just a slap in your face:

3488

don't know how anyone can say this is okay. that's fucked up if we want to be completly honest.

[MrFreeze]

I haven't done that many runs yet but I am yet to see multiples of 3* evo runes and no 4* runes either. So I would be happy with that myself.
I don't get why they are bothering with 2* evo runes outside of floors I-V when they are more easily farmed in the campaign world. Give us 3* only from floors VI and above.

It just seems to me like it's still better to farm underworld madness for runes. It's cheaper, faster, and it doesn't freeze up. I've been looking forward to BNW for a long time. I thought it would allow me to level up talismans as quickly as I'm able to level up characters using LoL. That's not the case at all. I'd almost rather they didn't have talismans in there and the runes just dropped like crazy.

The reality of BNW has set in for me. It's not what I was hoping for all these months. It's not going to allow me to level up talismans any faster than before. Maybe they got spoiled by the talisman power up packs. I thought those were a substitute while we waited for BNW, but I guess they'd rather we buy those if we're in a hurry.

It's pretty disappointing. BNW was the light at the end of the tunnel for me (and I think a lot of other players) hoping for a good reason to keep playing. Now that it's here, and underwhelming in so many ways, there's little drive left to continue. The devs seem like great people. I don't mean to bash them, but how many chances do you need to get something right? Now my last hope is that they tweak it in the right direction before I end up making one of those "delete me troopers" posts.

[edsel]

first round rewards on BNW are worth investing the time, new landscape is fresh and about time after seeing the same scenario for so many times. definitely farming the madness underworld and so glad I have been doing this on a daily basis for months so my 3 star evo rune warehouse is stacked. They discontinued dropping those in madness level worlds in new update?
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[MrFreeze]

first round rewards on BNW are worth investing the time, new landscape is fresh and about time after seeing the same scenario for so many times. definitely farming the madness underworld and so glad I have been doing this on a daily basis for months so my 3 star evo rune warehouse is stacked. They discontinued dropping those in madness level worlds in new update?
3489

I'm definitely still getting 3* rainbow evo runes in UM. I haven't paid close enough attention to say the same about the colored ones.

[Mizrael]

I'm definitely still getting 3* rainbow evo runes in UM. I haven't paid close enough attention to say the same about the colored ones.

I'm pretty sure that that is how it's supposed to work now. rainbows do still drop in the campaign and colored are BNW exclusive.

Makes me wonder what impact will this have on the new players who don't have good talismans nor a strong roster to farm in BNW...

So we are back to about a year ago, when NF took over and decided to drastically reduce the drops of runes and shards. you sweat a month to get 1 character to 5* with maxed talismans (Oh! i almost forgot-you can always pay $$$ to progress...no thx).

Instead of making some improvements of enjoyment (reducing the trooper grind,etc) BNW just made it one step further into this game being a full time job. now you even get your "salary" once a month...

Let's not forget that nothing has been done about the uselessness of the third talisman kind (mystical,skilled,...)!
A fundamental flaw in the basic design mechanics of this game. It's like you would buy a booster pack of some card game but you would occasionally find a couple of blank cards, whichs only use would be as filters for your joints...

[Ezz]

Tried to give BNW another fair shake - 3 more SOT refills plus 1 daily refill worth. Played levels 7-10 of all 3 types. Not one talisman.

Still like the levels but too much time and sot invested to receive 2 star evo runes - especially since I have hundreds of each type already.

[Caretaker]

Well, I can see a lot of us expected to jump in it instead of LoL, press auto and collect the runes and new talis. And I'm actually glad that we can not.
Old and eager players will get the new talismans before the newcomers anyhow, and have the whole pvp team equipped, so why not making it a challenge. We are just not used to the wait and manual play :o we love it all auto and all now. And then whine for new content to storm through. And the way it is set in discrepancy with our ambitions so we feel it as a long tiresome grind. We should take it easy.

Probably because I'm broken from a car crash atm and don't have the stamina to grind a lot I see the BNW dungeons as a sweet adition to past time while the arena clocks turn. I am missing on some xp runes atm due to new talis, as expected, and I'm thinking of buying a pack of runes but I think I'll get there in time or buy if something shows as op and must have to be competitive.

Overall I agree that it would be mandatory to increase an sot refill and ajust sot and ironite drops with the current drop rates of materials we are after. And increase regular materials drops in lower lvls to be consistent with the campaign for auto farming. But making rare items easier to drop would lead to quick collection and abandoning the dungeon.

[blade685]

too expensive for rewards I played BNW only the first day ...

[konstifik]

Finished the last levels of BNW today. The first playthrough was definitely worthwhile, mainly due to the talisman sets that were awarded through the achievements and also due to the ironite rewards. Don't think I'll farm much there though, seems to be waaay too much work for waay to small rewards. I understand that the talismans should be rare but the droprates for 3* evo runes seems ridiculous (and seems very likely to become a bottle neck for new players). Glad I already have a ton of those.

[slauki]

Finished the last levels of BNW today. The first playthrough was definitely worthwhile, mainly due to the talisman sets that were awarded through the achievements and also due to the ironite rewards. Don't think I'll farm much there though, seems to be waaay too much work for waay to small rewards. I understand that the talismans should be rare but the droprates for 3* evo runes seems ridiculous (and seems very likely to become a bottle neck for new players). Glad I already have a ton of those.

yeah i agree the talisman could be rare if the other rewards would be better. would be nice if they tweak this for compensate the time and ironite investment. i mean if you want to level up talisman with xp runes where do you farm GOD or BNW? well god ofc, isn't that kinda flawed logic, since BNW was created for the talismans?

[Nicko]

Absolutely a ton of work. I have farmed Despair level 10 and did refill after refill in search of immortality Talismans.

I finally completed a second set - but I probably played that level what seemed like a hundred times to get those talismans. The only other talismans I got were a Comet (Power) and an Endure...Sorcery at that ;)

I have mixed feelings. It took a ton of effort - but these talismans are pretty powerful - so I think some control is in order. Must be a 2% drop rate - at least for Immortality. At the same time it will be a while before I head into Despair again - and will casually farm the other dungeons now that mission accomplished, so curious to see what that brings.

[Bradata]

Absolutely a ton of work. I have farmed Dismay level 10 and did refill after refill in search of immortality Talismans.

I finally completed a second set - but I probably played that level what seemed like a hundred times to get those talismans. The only other talismans I got were a Comet (Power) and an Endure...Sorcery at that ;)

I have mixed feelings. It took a ton of effort - but these talismans are pretty powerful - so I think some control is in order. Must be a 2% drop rate - at least for Immortality. At the same time it will be a while before I head into Dismay again - and will casually farm the other dungeons now that mission accomplished, so curious to see what that brings.

Talismans are good unless you face one of those NBOL toons, they remove 99% of the time all those new fancy talies sometimes even before your toon had a turn. My immortality ones are sitting on a bench collecting dust right now. I like the ones that are passive and cannot be removed like Echo and Advantage. I put the Echo set on one of my dogs and that damn dog can't stop shooting, sometimes more than 5 times in a row but if the other team has Void active then you're screwed.
And for the drop rate you can easy say 1%, I farmed only level 10 in BNW and still haven't seen a single talisman.

[Silentknight]

Talismans are good unless you face one of those NBOL toons, they remove 99% of the time all those new fancy talies sometimes even before your toon had a turn. My immortality ones are sitting on a bench collecting dust right now. I like the ones that are passive and cannot be removed like Echo and Advantage. I put the Echo set on one of my dogs and that damn dog can't stop shooting, sometimes more than 5 times in a row but if the other team has Void active then you're screwed.
And for the drop rate you can easy say 1%, I farmed only level 10 in BNW and still haven't seen a single talisman.
So Askora says 3%, Nicko says 2% & u say 1%...f'n brutal! Plus, as u said NBoL as well as Wrath, Clair & even Visions can wipe em out instantly. God help us if they ever fix the Prisoner cuz the passive ones won't b much better! Guess it's immorality, oh wait...permadeath. Glad I sharded my Assassin CotD!!!

[mjmxiii]

Yup finished up BNW pretty fast once I put together VHE, SCD, GPD and Gunner Dog... the Echo Talismans on an NBoL are ridiculous! I mean if you want to see something really annoying, do that lol... and take that Immortality effect away with WUR, AG or MCR and problem solved. It's a waste if NBoL removes it. I won't be farming BNW much after completing it. Cost is too high, drop rates are too low, that shit is slow and crashes are many. Whats up with Night City?
LMAO :p

[Bradata]

What is ridiculous with BNW is the freeze problem. I don't like the time that it takes to finish level 10 and the 15 SoT that you have to spend to play but I can live with this. What I REALLY HATE is when in the final stage boss's life is in the red and the game freezes :mad:
I mean, common guys! After spending good 15min playing this happens, it's something that has to be fixed ASAP 'cause a lot of phones and tablets gonna get smashed into the ground, I already did it once! :(

[Nicko]

Talismans are good unless you face one of those NBOL toons, they remove 99% of the time all those new fancy talies sometimes even before your toon had a turn. My immortality ones are sitting on a bench collecting dust right now. I like the ones that are passive and cannot be removed like Echo and Advantage. I put the Echo set on one of my dogs and that damn dog can't stop shooting, sometimes more than 5 times in a row but if the other team has Void active then you're screwed.
And for the drop rate you can easy say 1%, I farmed only level 10 in BNW and still haven't seen a single talisman.

I agree that many talismans like Chance, Endure, and Invivibility can simply be a gift to Red Buzz or AG. I love every time I see them on the other team :)

But Immortality is different. It's countered only with Permadeath - and that may mean bringing a toon you otherwise wouldn't bring.

Attack Kamuz' VHE with your Newborn thinking it will remove the buff and you'll be in for a big surprise...

[Silentknight]

What is ridiculous with BNW is the freeze problem. I don't like the time that it takes to finish level 10 and the 15 SoT that you have to spend to play but I can live with this. What I REALLY HATE is when in the final stage boss's life is in the red and the game freezes :mad:
I mean, common guys! After spending good 15min playing this happens, it's something that has to be fixed ASAP 'cause a lot of phones and tablets gonna get smashed into the ground, I already did it once! :(

Strange! I've had zero freezes in Bugged New World but tonnes in arena.

[Bradata]

I agree that many talismans like Chance, Endure, and Invivibility can simply be a gift to Red Buzz or AG. I love every time I see them on the other team :)

But Immortality is different. It's countered only with Permadeath - and that may mean bringing a toon you otherwise wouldn't bring.

Attack Kamuz' VHE with your Newborn thinking it will remove the buff and you'll be in for a big surprise...

Ha ha, you're correct! I have specially designed team only for Kamuz but he still gets me sometimes. I don't bring NBOL too often lately, don't like the little bugger much, even I think I hate him a little. :p
Now when I think about it, I don't remember removing Immortality from a toon so maybe I'll give it a try and see what's gonna happen.

[Bradata]

Strange! I've had zero freezes in Bugged New World but tonnes in arena.

Oh, believe me, there are! I wrote my post right after my last one. I think I noticed that if you try not to play too fast it all works fine but sometimes I can't help it :)
And another one just now! WTF!

[Silentknight]

Oh, believe me, there are! I wrote my post right after my last one. I think I noticed that if you try not to play too fast it all works fine but sometimes I can't help it :)
And another one just now! WTF!

That SUCKS!!!

[Askora]

Nicko is probably spot on with the 2%. I only did the math for Garden of Fear and since it's 3% for a chance at a talisman and from there only 72% that it will be a talisman and not gold, it works out to just a bit over 2%. Of course it's not an even split on the talisman percentages. All in all, I'm not really opposed to them being rare or difficult to farm for.

The big issues I have are the freezing up, the high cost for revive (especially with the disproportionately low chance at a decent reward) and the most prominent, forcing players to farm there for their 3* colored evo runes considering the issues with those dungeons. The last one is a gouge for new players. I've got plenty of runes so it really doesn't affect me and I'm sure most long time players have the same advantage.

I question how BNW could take this long and introduce so many bugs, especially freezing up. I know some of NF's releases are due to contractual obligations and therefore may be released before the team is happy with the result. Hard to imagine that's the case here though, which means that either very little testing was done or the team decided to release it knowing how badly bugged it was. Both of those are very flawed business practices.

There have been several good suggestions to help better monetize the game and keep it playable without making it pure pay to play. The current direction seems to be more aimed at forcing new players to buy ironite in huge quantities to advance in the game, thus making it more pay to play and severely limiting the rewards. It is kind of fun to face the same players in PvP as it develops a sense of community, when the game severely restricts the ability of new players though it grows stagnant and frustrates new and old players alike.

Closing thoughts. Put the 3* colored evo runes back in the regular worlds, fix the bugs, lower the revive cost and make BNW better in terms of rune drops. With that, the poor drop rates for talismans would be reasonable.

[Silentknight]

Well said!!!

[Blade]

100% agree! Very good post!

[BG840]

Lackluster!! Nothing else to say that hasn't been posted already. Y'all really need to get your shit together either in game or look for new jobs!! At the rate you're going all long time players will have left the game by xmas, if they stick around til then. Is that the plan? To chase off your loyal player base that has stuck by your side through all the screw ups, with NOT any compensation ingame wise for all that has been lost because of NF's F ups! The forum has practically yelled to the heavens with what should be fixed and the direction content should adapt to. NODDING FROG still chooses not to listen! Which is probably a good thing with everyone leaving. Stop being greedy and just fix the fucking game already. If higher ups are to blame, then put them on the forum and let them read the backlash and negativity their decisions have brought or they too might need to find a new job. JUST GET IT TOGETHER before your player base is completely gone!!!

[JJJ428]

Nicko is probably spot on with the 2%. I only did the math for Garden of Fear and since it's 3% for a chance at a talisman and from there only 72% that it will be a talisman and not gold, it works out to just a bit over 2%. Of course it's not an even split on the talisman percentages. All in all, I'm not really opposed to them being rare or difficult to farm for.

The big issues I have are the freezing up, the high cost for revive (especially with the disproportionately low chance at a decent reward) and the most prominent, forcing players to farm there for their 3* colored evo runes considering the issues with those dungeons. The last one is a gouge for new players. I've got plenty of runes so it really doesn't affect me and I'm sure most long time players have the same advantage.

I question how BNW could take this long and introduce so many bugs, especially freezing up. I know some of NF's releases are due to contractual obligations and therefore may be released before the team is happy with the result. Hard to imagine that's the case here though, which means that either very little testing was done or the team decided to release it knowing how badly bugged it was. Both of those are very flawed business practices.

There have been several good suggestions to help better monetize the game and keep it playable without making it pure pay to play. The current direction seems to be more aimed at forcing new players to buy ironite in huge quantities to advance in the game, thus making it more pay to play and severely limiting the rewards. It is kind of fun to face the same players in PvP as it develops a sense of community, when the game severely restricts the ability of new players though it grows stagnant and frustrates new and old players alike.

Closing thoughts. Put the 3* colored evo runes back in the regular worlds, fix the bugs, lower the revive cost and make BNW better in terms of rune drops. With that, the poor drop rates for talismans would be reasonable.

Couldn't agree more I just beat the last X stage today and I have zero incentive to play BNW again now. Everything I read on the forums tells me there is no reason to replay any of the worlds and its a shame. For all the wait and build up this should be something we should all be enjoying for awhile. To me if they don't want to put the 3* color evo runs back into regular worlds just really up the drop rate for them. For most colors except for green I don't even need any more evo runs. (mostly cause of selling bug that prevented me from selling them) If the evo and xp runes dropped were upped considerably I would consider playing them now and then when I can. To me getting my 50 troopers in daily is the highest priority because its still the best way to get skill shards.

[slash1424]

I have to agree with alot in this post. Being a newer player I haven't gone past level VII yet. It takes long to run, the boss is slow and it take forever to kill (can't do a quick run while at work). Then once your done, open the chest and you get 5 1* runes and 1 2* evo for a wopping 15 SoT. Not gonna rum my troopers here so.....



slash-2083

[MrFreeze]

Why does it even cost 15 SoT? The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't it cost the same as LoL? Is this some sort of LotB inflation? How do they decide these things in meetings?

"so guys, what should we make these things cost? 5 SoT?, maybe 8 SoT?"

"No way, lets make it 15 SoT!"

"Hear, hear! Yeah 15 SoT! Great idea! Get that man a beer!"


It doesn't make sense to me.

[Inishmore]

To be honest I thought BNW would make evolving and upgrading talismans farmable. Now if I look at the drop rates that is not the case and I see a couple of problems. I believe a lot already has been said, and I agree with most. I just want to have a quick look at the costs:

1. If we look at the costs BNW makes no sense. The talisman power up pack in the shop costs 625 Ironites and you get 99 5 Star XP Runes and 18 3 Star Evo Runes. With that logic every one 5 Star XP Runes costs you roughly 5 Ironite. That said means that every run on BNW level 7 and upwards would need to bring you at least a mixture of 3 three star Evo and XP Runes. That is not the case at least not in the Garden of Life. In other words playing BNW is more expensive than actually buying that stuff in the shop. So that is tending to pay to win but wait you can only buy one talisman pack a month so there stops the pay to win… Oh no you can buy the pack and then play the overpriced BNW like this you spend double and also spend hours to upgrade a single Talisman. Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. It’s one or the other.

2. The way I understand it coloured Evo Runes will only drop in BNW. Giving the in game rewards overview I believe unlike the talisman they drop in every level, but do the drop rates change? Has anyone calculated how many runs you need until you can upgrade a Talisman? What is it 20, 30 or 50? I mean how is a new player going to upgrade a talisman if he has to play - let’s take the lowest number - 20 levels of BNW just to acquire the Evo Runes to upgrade one single talisman? That will cost him 300 SOT per Talisman or for one character 1’800 SOT. If you use all of your Troopers daily plus you do all the skull quests you need 330 SOT a day. 24 hours generate only 250 SOT but with the average 1.5 SOT you get from farming and the 15 from the daily challenges that makes it possible to get through this load without buying refills. But now the good news: There is no chance to play more than 2 rounds of BNW per day without buying refills. 300 SOT for one talisman means 4 refills each one costs 30 Ironite.
In other word the gap between long-time players and new players will become bigger or you pay and spend vast amounts of time - with the "and" being the main problem in my opinion.

All in all BNW is really cool and makes fun because it is a challenge and not auto-farmable. As new levels that is perfectly acceptable and if I have some spare SOT at night I will spend it on BNW. But to make it compulsory is in my opinion not going to work and taking the game closer to the cliff…

[konstifik]

Why does it even cost 15 SoT? The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't it cost the same as LoL? Is this some sort of LotB inflation? How do they decide these things in meetings?

"so guys, what should we make these things cost? 5 SoT?, maybe 8 SoT?"

"No way, lets make it 15 SoT!"

"Hear, hear! Yeah 15 SoT! Great idea! Get that man a beer!"


It doesn't make sense to me.

Seems to be a trend of late. Before BNW, the most recent change was secret locations turning into skull quests and the SoT cost for playing through all of them daily more than doubled.

[konstifik]

The way I understand it coloured Evo Runes will only drop in BNW.

1* and 2* will still drop in the campaign and the Evo Materials Cache skull quest, and 3* will still drop in the Evo Materials Hoarde skull quest (not sure how far in the campaign you have to get to unlock that one though). And rainbow 3* will still drop in the campaign. You can also get them from sacrifice. And let's not forget the talisman power up packs which you don't have to spend real money to get. So I suppose you can still evolve your talismans without ever playing BNW, but it'll be slower than what it used to be.

I just checked my inventory and I have enough colored 3* evo runes to evolve 200+ talismans and slowly getting more from SQ and sacrifices, so I'm not seeing this ever being a problem for me or any other long time player (unless they've been selling their evo runes for gold).

I can see a point in not having this resource easy farmable for long time players. However, long time players already have this resource in higher amounts than ever needed, while this change limits the resource for new players, who are the ones that need them the most.

[90mphyorker]

I see no point in BNW at the moment. Drop rates are so atrocious there is no point playing it. After 1 Immunity Talisman for nearly a week now and no sign of it, or any others dropping. What's the point? As I hate the Arena sadly starting to think that about the game now.

[MrFreeze]

I've blown through almost all of my stored up ironite playing it. I've been in the green/yellow one for the most part. I got a bunch of guard talismans from level VI. I don't remember how many runs, but it was a lot. The rune drops are horrible down there though.

I got a setup I can run X pretty quickly with, so I've been manually farming that a lot too. The rune drops are better up there.

3576

I haven't seen much in the way of talismans from level X though. I think I've only gotten one immunity from there.

Bottom line in my opinion. They could leave everything alone and make it the same cost as LoL, and I'd be happy. I'm glad everyone doesn't have four echo sets already. It's gonna get ugly in the arena when that happens. They just need to lower the cost to make it more accessible

Also I should add, I've been having a lot of fun coming up with teams to beat them. I'm using characters I never thought I would.