PvP: Attrition [Archive] - Legacy of the Beast Forums

Nicko

09-10-2017, 02:12 PM

I think the best way to describe PvP this week was SLOW

I was travelling and playing my free SoW all week with a refill here and there. It was enough to stay number one most of the week – but of course Saturday changes everything. I was at the airport and saw it was really just me and Alex near the top – so with free Philadelphia airport wifi and a delayed flight I knew had wifi – started playing – but then GMAC appeared! Of course I was interrupted by boarding, deboarding, crappy plane wifi and crashes, cab ride, etc – but the fact that we had even a little bit of a run was fun – because the arena was a pretty quiet spot.

In the end of course he prevailed – as he always does – but there was a little dovetailing while I was playing fast and furious – possibly because my defense had a solid week. In any event, big congrats to GMAC for his ELEVENTH eternal! Now tied with the original king of PvP Jofer!

Slauki rounded out the podium with third – his first time there! His maximized character thread is one of the best resources on this forum, and he always has wise things to say as he helps players here on the forum – so congrats!

Final top 5 were:

1) GMAC
2) NICKO
3) SLAUKI
4) ShaolinLondo
5) Caretaker

While I usually like to keep these posts process oriented – with a positive edge – it’s almost impossible to do that right now. The reason? Long term player attrition. It’s getting really disheartening.

I’ve said before – I’m a Maiden fan, not a “gamer” – so my experience with this matter is zero. Perhaps it’s simply inevitable – the way these mobile games work – and nothing else to say. But perhaps that’s NOT the case – and what can be done?

The list is long.

Jofer started when he simply got bored and moved on to a game that gave him more rewards for his effort and likely a greater challenge. I'm sure getting four Beelzebubs helped in that decision. But now – looking at a partial list – we have

Jofer
Osiris
Witkacy
Ringe
BadTaste
RCarter
IcemanFerrar
BillLion
Hold
Eskiggalu
Rygone
Tritium
Lulero
And I’m sure others I’m missing

Canyptian and Tom have become “casual” players – Kamuz and R1ck announced they will be slowing down – SilentKnight has slowed in the arena due to bugs - and then another humdinger – reigning champ GMAC expressed frustration as well with a possible retirement coming. He mentioned 90 event souls and zero Valkyries - I think anyone in that position would be pissed.

These players were great competitors and great forum members – great people – and every one of them stings.

So I ask again – is this just how it is? The natural progression of mobile games? Framing this as a positive – what would KEEP people here?

Of course the obvious things – better drop rates – new content – fewer bugs – more PvP variety without the same toons over and over – have been discussed in various threads. Change MUST happen or this will continue. And perhaps the business model depends on new players and long-term player attrition is just the way it will go until there are not enough Maiden fans to keep this ship afloat and it sinks.

But I’ll end with the fact I always believe people are doing the best they can with the resources they have – and that includes the developers. I DO think they listen and am grateful we have the interaction we have with them. Perhaps Sparton will even pipe in as I know he reads these threads.

I also believe this game is better than it was months ago. So change in some areas IS happening. But that doesn’t change the sting of these long term players hanging up their Eddie…

I would encourage responses to be constructive as opposed to rants. In the end everyone wants this game to thrive - good for newbies and long term players alike.

See you in the arena!

Tridimensionale

09-10-2017, 02:40 PM

I really missed your pvp posts Nicko ..
Congratz to you, Gmac for his 11° eternal (almost crazy if you think about the dedication needed:p) and of course to Prof. Slauki for the podium ! ;)

From the missed guys i can think of Tritium & Lulero.. both clever members & players, but as you say the list is long and many others will follow them

Nicko

09-10-2017, 02:44 PM

Aristo4

09-10-2017, 02:45 PM

Nickolas, well said as usual,nothing to add :p

Ubajoa

09-10-2017, 03:13 PM

I couldn't play all day because I was in a family reunion but I logged 5 hour left to reset and saw Nicko and Gmac battling, amazing!!. It looks like Gmac has tied Jofer16 in number of eternals and times on the podium. Congratulations to you Gmac, Nicko and of course to Slauki for the 3rd place well done my friend.

3679

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 03:24 PM

Was 'talking' 2 G 4 over an hour last night & this shit is killing him!!! Don't think NF has any idea just how much this game, Maiden & friends mean to people! He doesn't wanna go anywhere but if things don't change soon it's inevitable!
Sry G but maybe this will get their attention! Plus it doesn't hurt 2 let others know ur prolly the nicest, most sincere guy I've ever had the pleasure of 'meeting'!!! To those of u who have G as a trooper...that pic, omfg!!! He looks liked he'd eat u 4 breakfast! His words...I'm nice til it's time to not be nice. Fuckin awesome!!!

slauki

09-10-2017, 03:43 PM

ty for the kind words dear nicko and others ofc :). i'm also unsure if that's the normal development, but i doubt that this nieche game has too many new guys who will start this game so the devs should care a lot for the endgames who are here bacause of the band.

OTOH: most endgames have enough materials, enough strong chars, souls and everything, so not sure if they make much money from us. the newbies might fall into every trap and buy the stupid packages they give us every week, but the more experienced players will laugh and move on.

so maybe all good things have to come to an end. i play many pc games but not many mobile games so no idea how the trend is. i played a browser game shakes and fidges 7 years ago and it still exist so maybe it is possible to create such a longterm motivating environment (i quit after one year because it was too repetitive and many guild members left LOL). really unsure if this game will exist 6 more years, and if this forum breaks and other cool guys stop to play i have no idea why to continue playing...

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 03:57 PM

Nicko

09-10-2017, 03:59 PM

ty for the kind words dear nicko. i'm also unsure if that's the normal development, but i doubt that this nieche game has too many new guys who will start this game so the devs should care a lot for the endgames who are here bacause of the band.

OTOH: most endgames have enough materials, enough strong chars, souls and everything, so not sure if they make much money from us. the newbies might fall into every trap and buy the stupid packages they give us every week, but the more experienced players will laugh and move on.

so maybe all good things have to come to an end. i play many pc games but not many mobile games so no idea how the trend is. i played a browser game shakes and fidges 7 years ago and it still exist so maybe it is possible to create such a longterm motivating environment (i quit after one year because it was too repetitive and many guild members left LOL). really unsure if this game will exist 6 more years, and if this forum breaks and other cool guys stop to play i have no idea why to continue playing...

For some longterm players it's simply bugs. SilentKnight was a consistent top 10 player - and I think would still be - but experiences a lot of crashes.

Black Steel is one hell of a player - really fast and we had a great run one week - but haven't seen him top 5 since then and I know he's been having issues as well. He's been championing bug reform in a separate thread - one that I hope is getting some attention.

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 04:07 PM

For some longterm players it's simply bugs. SilentKnight was a consistent top 10 player - and I think would still be - but experiences a lot of crashes.

Black Steel is one hell of a player - really fast and we had a great run one week - but haven't seen him top 5 since then and I know he's been having issues as well. He's been championing bug reform in a separate thread - one that I hope is getting some attention.

Fixing bugs & stability issues should b #1!!! This game survived b4 PvP & now it's killing it! They need to get the game working properly b4 introducing new stuff. Look how long BNW was in development...4 what??? Has done more 2 hurt the game than help! New contents nice but it has to work! Although I still have yet 2 have a single freeze in BNW but I'm done with it already! Might farm a bit when bored 4 talismans but that's it!
By no means am I a techie but I know games!!!

Nicko

09-10-2017, 04:11 PM

They need 2 slow down on the updates! U just get used 2 things & bam,they change it! Why I'm sitting on 75 skill shards & 160k badges! Well, plus all the freezes!!! All they're doin is introducing new toons/talismans 2 counter the previous ones! Gets old fast!!! What's gunna happen now, can't b many new toons left=boredom! And this shit of introducing OP toons in hopes we all shard em & then nerf em??? Fuck that...not me!!!

Others have expressed that same frustration SK - so you're not alone - but I'm not in that camp. For me - the changing metas keep things fresh. Yes - toons get sharded that aren't used anymore (both my Wraths are sitting on a bench right now) - but because 4-6 shards come every week I'll take the challenge of new toons and changing metas over a more static environment. I may be an exception there.

Where this DOES get potentially frustrating is feeling compelled to chase those toons. VHE is great - but Shaman - and Mystic - and Aces High are 5* Eddies as well. A variety of teams should be viable - that in itself would encourage variety - not a combination of six different toons...

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 04:43 PM

Others have expressed that same frustration SK - so you're not alone - but I'm not in that camp. For me - the changing metas keep things fresh. Yes - toons get sharded that aren't used anymore (both my Wraths are sitting on a bench right now) - but because 4-6 shards come every week I'll take the challenge of new toons and changing metas over a more static environment. I may be an exception there.

Where this DOES get potentially frustrating is feeling compelled to chase those toons. VHE is great - but Shaman - and Mystic - and Aces High are 5* Eddies as well. A variety of teams should be viable - that in itself would encourage variety - not a combination of six different toons...

I agree that the constant updates make things fresh BUT it's too frequent! Christ, imagine the players that dont have access 2 forum...omfg! Confusing as all hell! Also the problem is toons are not balanced when introduced! So here comes another update. All u gotta do is look at lists...50-80% VHE...really! Prisoner was never this bad & it was a problem, although that was his passive but still OP is OP! Or balance...call it what u want! Makes 4 very unenjoyable game play! Sure it could be a combination with immortality but those are here to stay so VHE needs another nerf or other Eddies need buffs.

Askora

09-10-2017, 04:49 PM

Congrats to GMAC, another excellent run. Congrats to Nicko and Slauki as well. I was rooting for Nicko even though GMAC is a former trooper. Think all of you deserve it as do a few others. From Nicko's excellent posts, to Slauki's great character guide and Gmac's ferocity you're all legends in the game.

I retired, but it was short lived as things in my life switched gears a little bit. One thing that changed for the better is I lost a few excellent troopers from the forum. On the one hand it stinks as the camaraderie is part of the draw of the game, on the other hand I'm at 40 troopers (only a few forum members) and it gives the game a more casual feel.

Hats off to Nicko for starting this thread, I'd planned to start one similar but he beat me to the punch. Great minds think alike. I do think the big question is what in-game goals are there for an end game player. The latest and greatest character? My offense and defense in PvP don't depend on them and I can beat BNW at level X without much difficulty. So, that's simply a novelty. New content? Aside from the bugs and botched launch of BNW, it took some less than a day to conquer it. Run for eternal? Not for everyone. I'm more pve than PvP, but I do like the challenge of facing the different defenses (except when they're all nearly identical as is currently the case).

I finished the week at 33, a new high for me. Better offense, a still semi-effective defense, slower PvP than usual and the attrition of long time players are the main factors for it. Also, my account is cursed with always getting Sow on lower tier sacrifices. Seeing as I'm not big on PvP, it only makes sense. So, add a bunch of extra Sow for chasing blue buzz and that got me to 33. Might have been able to place higher, but chose to take Saturday off and do other things.

As endgamers, most have contributed some amount to the game and I think that's a big positive. What would keep us interested though. I think chat would be great, as for many of us the friends in the forum are what keeps us coming back. Need to fix the crashes before that though because it's frustrating enough to lose when it hangs up, would only be worse if it was because someone said hi. Bugged characters and effects while aggravating are something we all manage to work around, so my opinion is they are a little lower priority.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my thoughts on things.

Cheers!

Askora-8071 (Kevin)

Zapathusara

09-10-2017, 08:35 PM

About the arena, there was a moment saturday I checked out the ranks, and I saw 4k beeing enough to top 5. In a normal week this points is no guarantuee to top 25. I think it's a sign that everyone is a bit off the game (and sadly, we have Irma too).

As a gamer (and a ex-dev) I think I can say that is normal to have some issues in the endgame spectrum. High performance teams will be somekind similar in any game (MTG has a lot to say about that). Balance is difficult to mantain and one way to shake the meta (in short time) is if nearly op toons.

But that's no excuse. I do think the game are much much better than the days of beta pvp. We gpt sacrifice and fragments. We had two awesome events in 300/500 pvp week and the 5* eddies rush. BNW was a looooong promise, even more for the few that preffers pve, and it was a let down.

So, what can we do? I still dream with a coop raid like mode. Group boss, call your troopers to beat some faces. I saod faces, since obly one kind of boss make us tired soon. But a hard pve coop mode can keep things fresh for endgamers. And of course, made this mode with more kind difficults for the others too. PVE needs the same attention as pvp.

In pvp, some toons will always be netter than others. That said, I would increase IA and some aspects of others eddies (Vision could be turn back to its glory days).

VHE is a fav of mine, but it does too much. I would made its fury grant crit only to the toons alive, not for the revived ones.
And maybe, just maybe, reduce 15% dmg of dusk. VHE is much superior than Nav and others 5*.

As always, this is my wall of text for today (I just can't keep it simple). Lot's of ideas in mind, but I feel like I took to much time already in this post. See ya all.

PS: took some days off arena/game too. Maybe I come back this week. Maybe.

mjmxiii

09-10-2017, 08:37 PM

Hey Nicko,

So glad to see you take this post back!! I didn't see last weeks until last night but SK nailed it when he wrote that it just feels right with you as the OP. I think you said it, they need to do the obvious things, but (as I've stated in the past) they need to stabilize the PvP environment. This revolving meta where one toon gets clipped and another gets augmented or released and takes the throne is annoying. You once wrote that the meta would need to keep changing in order to avoid growing stale but it's evolution has become an ever changing meta that is a victim of it's own counter programming. This vicious cycle to keep things fresh has become it's own worst enemy and has made all these great long term players give up on a game that still is nowhere near full potential.

I'm not much of a gamer either, but Iron Maiden has been a part of and a major influence in my life for near 40 years so there is no other option as far as I'm concerned and I sure as hell won't be wasting my time playing a bot-fighting game because it doesn't have bugs when the game itself sucks balls (No apologies F2F crew, just IMHO). I'll choose to waste my time here and remain on the sinking ship and stay true to my loyalties. If Nodding Frog gets its shit together, great... and if they don't... well they will have squandered an opportunity to follow through on the most Metal (fiberglass bots don't stand a chance :p) game I've ever enjoyed playing.

A few things that need to happen to fix obvious stuff, i.e. better drop rates, new content, fewer bugs, PvP variety, etc, etc...;

Stabilize the PvP environment (bugs seem to be a direct result of the ever changing meta)
Restore toons like Prisoner, AoP and VE to previous glory (if you nerf one, another will take its place)
Boss characters that can lead PvP/PvE teams other than Ed (changes team compositions and disables Prisoner passive, adds variety to PvP when you don't need to have an Ed on the team)
Make Fragment Claims selectable (would help the lack of better drop rates and prevent Eternal dupes after a month of fragment chasing)
Finish Night City and Silent Planet in a timely fashion (please!)
Somewhere in Time World (a world based on the classic album is an absolute must)
7th Son World (a 'hell freezes over' world that finally gives us the half-body Ed we want)
Trooper World (this so we can collect the Trooper at long last)
Beasts Revenge World (a world where Ed is captured and we have to use Boss Chars to lead our team and defeat the many different variations of Ed to get him back)
Beast Mode (a mode that gets unlocked at LvL 100 where all enemies are fully maxed in all respects)
Hallowed be thy Name World (a world based on this sick drawing of a crusader Ed by Dan Mumford)

3680

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 08:53 PM

MJM, u have some of the coolest pics & ideas!!! Nice 2 c Nicko kept ur top 10 list even if it was only 5! I mean he's no Letterman! Lmao!!!

mjmxiii

09-10-2017, 09:36 PM

MJM, u have some of the coolest pics & ideas!!! Nice 2 c Nicko kept ur top 10 list even if it was only 5! I mean he's no Letterman! Lmao!!!

Lol thanks SK, he's no Letterman but I'm no Nicko! Wish NF felt the same about my ideas as you bud... :p That pic is licensed by Maiden too.. only 200 of them on a silk screen that sold for 50 bucks back in 2015... I missed out on that one!

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 09:49 PM

Lol thanks SK, he's no Letterman but I'm no Nicko! Wish NF felt the same about my ideas as you bud... :p That pic is licensed by Maiden too.. only 200 of them on a silk screen that sold for 50 bucks back in 2015... I missed out on that one!
Wow, $50!!! I'd kill 4 that! I have a coloured Live After Death flag that's the 1st thing that gets hung up whenever I move. Also, seeing as how I know ur a hockey & LA Kings fan, I also have a Gretzky/Howe painting #???/250! Can't remember & packed away.

gmac

09-10-2017, 11:29 PM

Hello everyone

Lots to talk about.

First, thanks Nicko for this thread, and MjM too for keeping it alive.

Arena This Week
I was not planing on trying Eternal this week, but as Nicko pointed out, things were slow... 7 hours to go 700 pts... I started playing, figure out what was causing the crashes (for me it was MCR, that is bugged) made few changes and all of a sudden I saw I had a chance. Great battle with Nicko. Felt a little like first week. And almost a win win situation, If I lost I'd be happy too, Nicko getting Eternal is something that should have happened before. Slauki getting 3rd was icing on the cake, this was a horrible week and glad it ended this way.

Record Tied
After I saw Carlos spreadsheet (thx for it man) I think I stared at it, both hands on my head, for about two minutes. Lots of things crossed my mind.
First, being tied with Jofer just feels wrong. He is a different player, with lots of experience in other games, where he was also very successful. Truth is I would not have as many Eternals if he was playing, he is on another level then all other players over here, including myself. Nevertheless, I'm tied, and it's a great honor.
Also, looking at the sheet I think it was the first time I really realized what I have archived in the game and how far I have improved as a player. Like Jofer I have more Eternals than all other players combined. This is unthinkable and really special. (and also feels wrong btw)

Thoughts of Quitting
After Valkyrie event and blue Buzz fiasco I really started considering quitting this game. Problem for me really is that I can't use my rewards to get toons I want or feel I need for PVP competitiveness... And buying 90 souls and getting ZERO Valkyries... what a fucking rip off!!!
There is little motivation for me to chase Eternals, rewards are always dupes and IC I can't use. I have 143k(!) IC, 53 ss, 100k tp, 30mi gold... but what for? I really wish I could use what I earn playing to get toons I need. Make it super expensive. 25k IC + 25k tp + 10mi gold or something like that.
Plus, game does not motivates me to try and raise the bar, let's say go for 20k, or something stupid like this. That is probably why Jofer left, and why I'm considering it too.
Feels like the more successful you are, the more the game pushes you away. Invest a bit more, get zero events rewards. Get Eternal, how about another dupe? Lv6 sacrifice, 2ss for you. etc.
I wanted one more Eternal, to leave the game on a high. And this might be perfect, one last Eternal with a classic Saturday run on a great battle with Nicko to tie Jofer's record. Could not have scripted it better.
So... will see, truth is also I don't really wanna play other games, this one is Iron Maiden's game damn it! And I like this community a lot. I've made lot's of friends and got to know amazing individuals. I don't want to leave it.
At the same time I can choose to do other things with my time, start other challenges, invest in other things etc.
Don't know how it will go, I wish things would change but my hopes are really low.

About The Suggestions
Slauki, MjM, Nicko, Ravi, SK, you all posted great ideas.
I'm really sad to see long time players leave... (add Killhouse and Go80sMetal to that list!).
I do feel fixing bugs and stability are paramount. (this is THE BASICS)
But yes, things to do with troopers - missions, raids or something, that would be great. (this is the key for PVE)
Then ways to get specific toons/rewards with lots of hard work. (this would be the key for PVP)
Of course new content with a shorter time frame would also be welcome. (this is a plus!)
I don't mind meta changes, just wish they did not happen so often, and so close to Arena deadline.
I also don't mind final fantasy toons. Devs said they brought Valkyries to try and reach a different player base...how about making this game great to try and reach that?!? This is Iron Maiden game and it deserves to be great!
Again, I'm not hopeful, but maybe a miracle. Patrice? lol

Cheer guys
have a good week!
gmac

Silentknight

09-10-2017, 11:35 PM

Add PizzaFriday as well!

Jofer16

09-11-2017, 02:17 AM

Getting real on this one, the founding fathers are concerned, so I'll give my last heartfelt input.

For me it boils down to 3 main issues, probably in order of importance for why I left and continue to stay away:

1) Arena system is horrible. I don't even need to explain the reasons, they've been discussed ad nauseam, with plenty of quality solutions proposed.

2) Bugs. Also, nothing more to add, it's clear NF will never get a hold on them and limp this game along. It's more important to find and exploit bugs than it is to discover the true meta of the game.

3) Lack of content. People can propose cool ideas all day long, new worlds, awesome new gaming modes, new social aspects, but just like the bugs, it's clear NF can't handle any of this either. See BNW as a Prime case study, most mobile games push out new real content constantly. here? Oh you'll have to wait a year and even then it'll be broke. Again just limping along with cash grab events to distract people that don't know any better.

All of the above are why I switched to a new game, which solves all of these issues for me, if NF could produce quality even for a month I'd be back. I can see why people like MJM like it and continue to stay, cool music and graphics, but the actual game doesn't hold water past collecting stuff anymore. It's built to waste time while you're riding the bus or taking a shit. For someone like me who comes from a gaming background and isnt just a blind Maiden fan, there are just so many better options out there.

I toyed with leaving for months and figured things would get better, course was never corrected by NF so I switched to more satisfying avenues for my gamer side. I'd rather play F2F and listen to Maiden lol. Cool music and graphics just isn't enough for me. I need a game to play that isn't broke, misleading, border line bait and switch.

And meta changes exist in all games, but here it's just way too extreme and frequent, other games do it with much more grace. Unless you're king whale who has every toon imaginable and resources at your disposable this is a model for a pissed off player base. I've played tons of other meta based games for over a decade and what I've seen here is exponentially worse in all aspects. There is no quality testing of decisions made, knee jerk reactions, we are the testers. Despite all the rage, we are still just rats in a cage.

I think they are better off at this point just making cool characters to collect and squashing bugs to keep the Maiden fans happy. They can't handle pleasing them and gamers like me at the same time and just rush shit out so it's a perpetual cycle of broken stuff and disappointment.

Same discussions, same complaints, same responses from NF, month after month with no change. I'm starting to wonder if long standing forum members suffer from amnesia lol The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, I just couldn't take it anymore.

Hope this doesn't classify as a rant Nicko, tried to lay out my honest reasons for leaving and staying away and be as real as I can positive or negative aside. I'd be positive and propose solutions, but they've already been discussed so many times by Tritium, etc there's really no need anymore. Sat on the merry go round for too long, until I see change in the game, and not just words, it'll get my real attention.

Love Maiden, but I have other ways of supporting the band if I desire, and since I'm a gamer who knows better, supporting a broke game isn't it. I can't count how many times I used to end posts with hope or give NF encouragement, but nothing ever changes, again, only action will change my mind at this point.

This game was never ready for someone like me and still isn't, when my passion for Maiden met my passion for gaming. Maidens held a pivotal role throughout my life for as long as I can remember, same with gaming. But I exhausted the game aspect with LotB after realizing there's nothing there. The least I can hope for you guys, because you're all amazing people and deserve some competition, is that until NF can make a real game, someone else with passions for both like myself might come along and spark energy until things are fixed, if they ever are. The players make the game.

For now, I'm tired boss. Like Gmac said, with this game the better you are, the more PvP system and meta changes you'll get slapped with by NF. It's a game for collectors, not gamers.

Hallowed be the name of us gamers, the Sands of Time for us ran out long ago. action is the only resolution now, forum communication is a dead end, Tritium, etc confirmed that. I'm not in the camp of "oh but NF communicates with us so there's hope!". Distraction for fools. I'd say I hope NF is listening, but been there done that, at the end of my rope until I see real change, 5 o clock came, and good friends with the LotB gallows pole...

https://youtu.be/7vP2hFFV57E

Silentknight

09-11-2017, 02:23 AM

Ditto! Collecting & that's it! Basically farm LoL 4 reg souls & play around with sacrifice...yawn! Still way more fun than freezing! Oh, & troopers too of course!

Zapathusara

09-11-2017, 02:59 AM

Jofer, I think no one could said this better.

Even when NF do something, they do it wrong way (BNW, last couple "events" and promos). There is thousands of ideas out here (an arena mode of only 3* toons, "Blue Eyes League" anyone?).

But they can't handle the game.

For me, the game is still something incomplete, since we can't farm souls (nor frags). There so much potencial, and none realized.

Couldn't have said better, bro. But I'm a madman, until some of my other 3 games installed take over me for real.

(I will stay off again here. Hate to post rant n negativeness)

Nicko

09-11-2017, 03:03 AM

Hope this doesn't classify as a rant Nicko, tried to lay out my honest reasons for leaving and staying away and be as real as I can positive or negative aside.

Actually I think it's the best post you've ever written. Thanks for posting.

In fact coming back and reading this thread after being away all afternoon - the effort people are putting into transforming their thoughts into words is inspiring - it shows the passion people have for Iron Maiden - which extends to this game. I hope NF is reading closely. There are a combination of recurring themes and great suggestions - a goldmine for the developers.

Top businesses use surveys to better themselves - and in the process better the experience for their customers.

NF - consider this thread your survey...

Jofer16

09-11-2017, 03:40 AM

Couldn't have said better, bro. But I'm a madman, until some of my other 3 games installed take over me for real.

Thanks friend, and yes, misery loves company, its the glue that keeps this game together.

https://youtu.be/OozIDOzGWH4

Zapathusara

09-11-2017, 03:47 AM

Thanks friend, and yes, misery loves company, its the glue that keeps this game together.

https://youtu.be/OozIDOzGWH4

Can we play with madness?

Lol, agree with Nicko. Your best post, and a hell of survey for free to NF. Dunno what happens with their team (but Michelle is the best)

90mphyorker

09-11-2017, 05:05 AM

I’ve said before – I’m a Maiden fan, not a “gamer” – so my experience with this matter is zero. Perhaps it’s simply inevitable – the way these mobile games work – and nothing else to say. But perhaps that’s NOT the case – and what can be done!

Me too. Big Maiden fan who played this game just because it was Iron Maiden and I had a slight bit of experience in a freemium game before. I feel there is an inevitablity that these games work very similarly but there's no reason to do any anything about it.

My only experience in Freemium gaming was with Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes, which I stopped playing and moved onto this.

I played that from February '16 to August '16 when I quit because of major update I hated and started playing this. But honestly I don't feel there is many differences in how this game goes to my experiences in that, other than one major thing. Content. Lack of content is what is killing this game.

Both game had bugs. Granted this has more, but every update on SWGOH there was a list of bug fixes nearly as long as this and some bugs that took months to fix. Both were made to grind levels to get rewards, both had poor drop rates and both were pay to win. The in game curreny and rewards in LOTB are much more achievable than in SWGOH. You'd be complaining of never having enough gold in that, not too much. Meta changes happened, but never as regularly as this.

But SWGOH had plenty of things to do. Dark and Lightside missions, Arena, Galactic War, Daily Quests, Guilds, Cantina Battles and when I quit, Mods had just been created. Since then even more has been created. You had so much to do but because of that no one character was amazing in all areas. You'd get a deep roster and would get use of lots of characters in a variety of game modes. Not that you could compete in them all though because you would never have enough Gold to power up characters.

This doesn't have that because it just doesn't have enough game content and what game content there is can be achieved with about 10 characters. Could say I'm being geneous there too.

Biggest thing this game needs to do in my opinion is get new content out. New content means more use for all the characters we have and more importantly might get more players. Maybe some old players back too.

Get Night City and more story worlds added.

Create some other competition mode other than Arena to play. Some other reason to grind through levels over and over again to build up toons.

Stop trying to get toons to be great in all modes. One is amazing for PVE but awful at PVP? Leave it at that. Toon not amazing in either? Leave him be and make a new game mode where it and similar toons will be amazing in there.

SWGOH was released in Nov '15 and from then to when I quit there was all those game modes I previously listed. More than enough to keep playing. From when LOTB started to now, there has only been LoL, Arena and BNW added. Yes we've had missions added, but no new ones to do for a while now. But for how long this game has been out there's not enough content to keep people motivated. Grinding over levels in these just to try and compete in the arena will kill peoples motivation eventually. Especially when the top rewards are out of reach for the majority.

Drop rates on this are very similar to SWGOH, in fact maybe even better and so much else is similar too. It's just the lack of new game modes are killing this game imo. Lots of character events are nice and something to do but are just papering over the cracks.

Get new content and new game modes out, more regularly and with less bugs and this game will be much more enjoyable.

Sorry for the ramble. Just my 2 cents on what this game is like compared to my other experience on a similar game. I don't want LOTB to become SWGOH and I'm well aware SWGOH has a much bigger budhet. Just only game I could compre it too.

I think LOTB was on track to be an amazing game, it's just veered wildly off track and I'm not sure if the developers know what to do to get it back on track.

scott-5496

09-11-2017, 10:38 AM

So many good things laid out in this thread - I agree with most, if not all, of what has been said. This is really the only game a play daily - it helps fill up time and I do still enjoy aspects of it but the key thing all of you are saying is a need for new content. I fully agree. I am not too bothered what this new content is but it has to be more story modes and more variety based. Farming for resources and playing 50 troopers takes way to long and is all auto so no fun there - just pure grind. I get zero enjoyment from that other than helping out troopers and myself to get trooper pints - end game of that is getting more skill shards and that is it. Chasing shards to boost characters. In the end what for I tend to ask myself at the end of every week? I really am not sure. I do not have the time to aim for top 10 PVP so why chase shards as I have a decent enough roster to do OK on all story levels and pretty well in all of BNW levels (though cant auto some of the later levels due to boss shields.....and really think this is just a wasted opportunity for the game - the boss just needs to be ground out to win - it is little to do with skill - it is just another form of grind surely?

I think I am at the point now of my enjoyment of the game waning a lot - I do it because I can play auto everyday - a do not do any manual play unless it is PVP or the odd LOL X or higher up BNW level and I do those pretty rarely. I am so bored in PVP that for months I pick my attack team and it pretty much stays the same for week or months - I never bother swapping much as I cant be bothered, especially with the current VHE focus. The thing that gets me is getting beat in PVP by a team that I then have another go at and flatten in two or three rounds - yet the RNG of the AI can flatten me just as quick. I know I should play a different team more but I just cant be bothered to mess about changing team, talismans etc....yeah I am lazy!

Onto the wider things about the game - I wonder if saturation has now been reached as the Maiden tour closes there will be next to no avenues to promote the game as heavily - surely new players will start to drop significantly now? So they have to move to putting out a lot more new content to keep all the new folk they have happy and especially us end gamers. We need variation. We need less bugs and we need a solution to OP toons that get spammed to death with every nerf or meta change. Maybe new talisman in BNW could help here but I do not have the time or inclination to grind a boss to death over a 10-15 minute time frame - it is just too much surely and with the poor drop rates of these new talisman I am not sure we will ever see these massively effecting teams with the latest combination of go to toons and Eds.

Don't get me wrong I still play and still get something from it - but it is dropping a lot. This Saturday evening on the run up to reset I drank some Trooper beer and my latest crave for Brewdog IPA (Elvis juice is ace) and played Scrabble and Upwords with my better half while listening to a Spotify playlist of my fave 40 Maiden tunes - now that was six hours well spent!

As a couple of others have said maybe thing about taking on board all the great stuff across a plethora of threads and set to the task of making the game more attractive to the fan base. Think about restoring several nerfed toons and Eds to move the meta on from VHE based team ( I don't have one by the way!) as these are way worse/numeric than Prisoner teams or Visions or Mummy etc etc......I am not a nerf fan - just leave things as is but allow for a wider number of choices to circumvent the current OP toons.

Not really been a rant this post, more of I agree with you all kind of thing - I just hope that new content or ways to play are put out with haste as I agree with many that BNW, while diverting for a week, was a missed opportunity and after all the waiting was, for me, a waste of time once the three gardens were beaten.

DaveMurray

09-11-2017, 10:41 AM

First of all gratz to G, Nicko and slauki, i would like for Nicko to have more time to play between flights to win this one cause he truly deserves to be named Eternal ones, he is Eternal on our hurts though(sorry G but you are used to it :p).

Now to the more important stuff, if this thread and what is happening the last 2 months with great players/people leaving one after another is not a wake up call for NF i really don't know what will be.
A game with so much potential ended up being a bugged sh1t that is running with only one purpose, collect as more money as we can.

I am an addicted gamer, i play games for as many years as i can remember myself, i don't like mobile games though, i like playing on my PC but i am also a huge Iron Maiden fan so LotB was my first serious try on mobile gaming. I also started playing F2F because of the guys there but although i like it a lot i mostly play it for fun and not as hardcore as LotB.

The main problem with LotB for me is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you play and sometimes no matter how much you pay you end up right where you started, with nothing. This is not the way games are supposed to work, a hardcore gamer that spends many hours grinding, PvPing etc should be rewarded somehow.
LotB is completely based on RNG in all it's aspects and that's terribly wrong, for example a newbie that plays for fun with some luck can have better toons than a hardcore player that started playing from day one. G mentioned having 0 vals from 90 souls, i had 0 from 60 but others summoned one of them from one soul, this is ridiculous. Imagine a newbie that plays for 2 weeks f.e. having the purple beast that can beat a whole team alone winning the 11 times Eternal G, i mean come on..

On top of that ofc are the numerous bugs that this game has that completely ruin gameplay and it seems that NF can't handle them. Let's be honest, they try but everytime they fix something more things break, yet they don't stop releasing new things and take some time to concentrate on fixing those problems.

One other thing that this game needs like yesterday is a way for players to communicate somehow through the app.

Last but not least, arena system, one of the worst things in LotB. Nothing more to add than the thousands of posts about that issue.

As i mentioned i played a lot of games in my life but this one got the best community that i ever encountered and it's mostly because of Iron Maiden, most of the playerbase care for the game because they love the band and have great ideas to make it better so it's on NF to make that happen and improve the game. I lately loose hope that anything will change though, unfortunately.

MrFreeze

09-11-2017, 12:09 PM

Congrats gmac, nicko and slauki on the all-star podium.

Not much I can add that hasnt already been said. I hope the devs are listening and take this seriously. It's their approach that's turning me off to the game. We wait months for BNW. Now that it's here I don't even play it because it's so expensive. I can't run 50 troopers in a day and play BNW for 15 SoT without buying refills. I've already blown through a ton of ironite doing that. Sick of it.

Then we have events like the current one. I'm not really doing anything different. I'd like an event to have its own map and something unique to do. Just dropping souls for a chance at a character is a lazy excuse for an event.

I know this is probably too much of a rant, but it's getting so bad, it's hard to give constructive criticism without it sounding like a rant. A fresh perspective by the devs would help. Sometimes I don't think they look at it from a players point of view. They've got some flawed business model they're trying to follow rather than just making the players happy.

This'll be my last post on all this for a while. I'm tired of sounding like a broken record. I hope things change and get better.

Mariner-1212

09-11-2017, 03:08 PM

Great thread. Congrats Gmac, Nicko and Slauki!

All of the ideas and recommendations here have been great, and NF needs to pay attention. I won't complain here because I've done that enough.

So here's a proposed fix to what I see as the longterm problem (aside from Bug fixes being the obvious #1).

Gamers, Maiden Fans that aren't gamers, new players, endgamers, we all share at least one thing - The desire/need to be creative. This game needs to focus on that for longevity.

#1. Things need to perform AS ADVERTISED. Moves/passives/talisman moves need to do exactly what they say. When you find out one doesn't, fix it immediately. Every day that something isn't working like it should, you're pissing someone off for spending those skill shards, or not having a fair chance to be competitive. Once all things operate like they're supposed to, players can be more creative in setting up their teams.

#2. Go back and fix the Eddies. All Eddies should be useful in the arena, or at least most of them. Cyborg Eddie is a God in the world of Maiden fans, and shouldn't be so easy to go up against. Some need small tweaks, some need bigger Buffs (Shaman and Viking), some just need an AI tweak - but all should be made more useful. This allows more creativity in the team compositions for endgame players, who at the moment are almost given no choice but to put in VHE if they want to make a run for it. Nicko and others have been extremely creative in team composition and I think we'd all agree that it's one of the most fun parts... and I think we'd get even more variance with this buff happening.

#3. Create the 7th son level, and introduce a character called Moonchild. Give one to everyone for free, at the start of the level. Yeah, you read that right. Free. This toon initially has NO MOVES and all talisman slots are locked and gray. It can't attack. You need to create a team that will protect him through the level. When you first start, there's an intro story and you get to choose his/her gender and appearance from a list of 7 different looks (7 for each gender, so 14 total). When you finish the first level, you decide it's class (each class determines the toon's final base stats and a single talisman slot). When you finish a certain number of levels, you can unlock another talisman slot (will always be 5 open slots, one base color slot based on class chosen). Finish a few more, and you get to choose a move for him from a list of 7. Continue on, unlocking slots and adding another move from a new list of 7 (so 14 move options so far), and customize your toon exactly how you want. Final screen is a fight against Eddie's head (Can I Play With Madness) or maybe some beast that is freezing the land - come up with something. Upon defeating it, you get to choose a fury for your Moonchild from a list of 7. You can get more Moonchildren from souls, or from badges, IC, etc. So you've now introduced a character that promotes creativity. The good or the evil, which path will he take? You can even change up some of the move offerings from time to time, to keep it fresh.

#4. Create challenges that allow players to change a single talisman slot color on a toon. For example: You need to go through a level start to finish without dying (but can revive) and without changing your team (maybe like the length of the Ailing Kingdom, maybe longer). If you succeed, you are able to change one color slot from one of the toons you brought with. This opens up infinite possibilities for all level players, and fosters creativity.

The game needs to focus on giving players the ability to be creative. New worlds are great but they are static - once they're completed, it's back to farming. For you (NF) to make money and keep players, there needs to be a reason for endgamers to keep playing. If you give players the ability to customize characters, you've just opened up a world of replayability and potential. I'm not even going to get into the possibilities with selling new 'looks' for these toons, etc. But the money will be there, and so will the players.

Kardas

09-11-2017, 04:48 PM

Congrats to Nicko, Slauki, Caretaker, and the rest of the Top10, as well as Gmac for his eleventh Eternal win!

As for the stuff in this thread, I pretty much agree with all/most of it. I read the previous thread as well, but I've been so busy that I can't get to the forum that often.

As for the current meta, I can see how it's bad that there's only one Eddie and about 7 characters worth using on defense (with a few more on offense), but it has one great advantage: being able to use only one team or something so you can play fast (more about that below).

As for the people saying VHE needs to be nerfed: I can see their points, yeah, VHE is pretty strong (compare him to the very similar Grim Reaper, and VHE is a lot more flexible than ol' GRE). However, there's one very big thing that has dominated the meta for months now, and VHE is only the latest in the chain. That said, a big part of what makes VHE so good is that Guards and Immortals are the perfect complement to him. They up his damage well enough (compare to GRE), and keep him alive long enough to cast that all important Fury. VHE's big weakness is his fragility. This Talisman combo eliminates all together.
Revivers and reviving.
When I started PVP, my only Reviver was Grim Reaper (VHE was bad back then and I won't even mention Pharaoh Water Spirit). Then I got GCR during the Anniversary event. By using her my win % went from the low 80s, to fluctuating between the low to mid 90s, and hasn't dropped since. Sure, GCR has gotten nerfed, but that gave way to the infamous Immortal VHE combo. That and Clairvoyant has also become more usable, though I lack her still.
You might have read my recent permadeath guide, and, like me, may have concluded that part of the reason Revivers are so rampant in the meta is because the counter strategy sucks.
tl;dr Revivers are really really good in PVP and it's probably because there's no easy way out against them.

And now for more personal stuff:
This week. Hoo boy. Having a day job and LotB is hard. Especially if you want to get all free SoW and SoT. I've come to realize it's possible, but you won't have much time for anything else. I could've probably still gone for the Top25, having reached Top29 and all, but my week's been really tiring, so I didn't bother. That and my offense percentage has been suffering, with trying to reach all free SoW. Though crashes and bad luck probably also played a role.

I admit the burnout's getting to me too. I've been missing doing something else with my free time other than LotB, so I have been thinking of going casual for the next month or too.
Depends on how I'm feeling by the time we reach October though.

Caretaker

09-11-2017, 05:26 PM

First of all I'd like to congratulate... well... me :p for taking 5th.
It was a slow week, I suppose first of all because of ironite draining events that came in a row, and I took it, nothing better to do with a broken leg.

Congratulations to the podium, well deserving folks up there and I was glad to see them there.
Many tnx to Nicko for the thread and all of you here on your opinions and thoughts with hope for a good future of the game and us the players, community members.
Many tnx to Carlos for his table and keeping track of all arena weeks, love the thread with posters.

in the tone of the thread... I stated long ago that imo, we the 'old' players are not the future of Legacy, and the game should care more about new players and playerbase making it in the arena and in the game all around, but it's obvious that we are not ready to completely throw in the towel just yet and we want and know there must be more (although as seen on the list some great members are gone, still plenty of 'legends' in their own way roam this worlds and the new ones are rising). That night city is there in the shadows since the beging, as was bnw (which I kinda like how it turend out, and it has potential, not minding bugs and stuff) and I know I want to see it alive while I'm around. And I agree beyond any doubt that the new features in this game brought it up by far since the dawn of time.

From posts above, I liked the ideas of diversity and creativity in composing teams. With a little comment/opinion on that... for me it became all about defensive usability in arena. One can go with a lot of different and great attacking teams if you have no luck with souls, but the defense is what makes you or breaks you. And ppl stick to what seems to work.

I saw Slauki's idea of a fifth toon on def in another post, could be fun for a week or so, but soon it would be same defs all around.

And I think that 'balancing' took it too far long ago when it became all about naturality/stars. It was just supposed to mark their rarity. Now, chasing rare + op toons is the only way to get you high. PvP-wise. No creativity there just get them and put them out!

I'm gonna swollow this if I see undiscovered potential of demon spawns in Arena (old toons are all known op non, or if they were hitting too hard for their stars - nerfed, remember ags or blue allied, and that bothered me, nerf on explosive shields on troll and visions take didn't bother me) - If the toon is not at least 4* with the set of skills you need, you can go and bbq it with hope of a good one. So what to do about that?

druid138

09-11-2017, 09:14 PM

Congrats on another Eternal gmac!

And, congrats to Nicko and slauki for their place on the podium!

Regarding Attrition, it's really discouraging to see so many great players so frustrated. I agree with many of the points raised in this thread. The devs have a lot of concise feedback here.

I'm in it for the long haul. For me, the game has always been, first and foremost, about the characters and their archetypal significance - both the Eddies and his allies.

To that end, there are two things I'd like to emphasize and request.

First, make more of the characters useful and important in different situations. That would add variety and provide incentive for end-game players to have very diverse teams. More Missions are one way to achieve this. Another way would be to create events where only certain types of characters could be used. For instance, a new short map that must be cleared using only Undead Soldiers or Dogs or Harpies or Egyptian characters or you name it. I believe Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes does something like this, but I'm not positive.

Second, bring out new characters more often. I'm sure there is a stockpile of them being created for Night City and The Silent Planet. And, while introducing new characters with the new worlds is ideal, I'd like to see more frequent ad hoc releases of both individual and groups (e.g., Valkyries) of characters. It would also be cool to see some of the new characters offered via Achievements.

Mariner - your Seventh Son concept is fantastic. I'm sure something like that would be complicated to implement, but it would add such an incredible dimension to the experience.

Also, while we're at it, I was thinking about two new character classes: Orange and White.

Orange could emphasize flexibility and creativity (similar to Mariner's Moonchild idea). They could embody Potential. Maybe all stats would be balanced, but all talisman slots would be open.

I'm still thinking through the White. They could embody Transcendence, but I'm not sure what that would translate to.

Sparton_LOTB

09-15-2017, 05:54 AM

A'ight, so tasks in the office kept me and Kaz more tied up than we thought we'd be all this week, so my apologies for taking this long to finally pop in and respond...

Player attrition is always gonna be a rough subject. It would be great for every player to want to stick around and play the game for as long as it's servers run... but there's a lot of reasons for why someone would want to step away, temporarily or permanently. And in all honesty, the rate at which new content has come out, the stability of some features, and the main competitive feature being very demanding in terms of time and execution (without a whole lot of variety or mixups)... I can understand some people wanting to leave the game, temporarily or permanently. I don't like it, and me and Kaz constantly puzzle over how we can keep plates spinning while cooking up new ways to challenge and motivate our players, but there's always too much to do and not enough time, so we just buckle down and do the best we can do.

I don't want to paint a grandiose and optimistic picture of the future. I'd much rather do than merely promise, and I think our plans leading towards the end of the year and into the future will shape up to something exciting for our players, both from a gamer standpoint and from an Iron Maiden fan standpoint. In addition, we're becoming better at working with getting features out and making needed changes to the architecture of the game; key hires and the ability to start getting the right people on the right tasks means stability and fixes are becoming more of an ongoing process than something that people are pulled off of constantly, so I hope this is reflected not just in our patch notes, but in the sentiments shared by you, our players. And all while that is happening, we as designers are laying out the plans for future content and features that will continue to bring the lore of Iron Maiden to life in new and exciting ways.

At the end of the day, the development team appreciates your honest and constructive feedback. We understand fatigue and content concerns, and I hope you'll be happy to see what we have coming up, in both the short and long term.

(And yes, I do seek these threads out and give them a read every week they come out. I know Kaz and some other developers do, too.)