Trooper Store Limits... the Final Nail in the Coffin...

[Patrice-1201]

That said, similar to the Arena Store, we intend that future valuable items that are added to the Trooper Store Tab will have limits for how frequent they can be purchased, so we want to encourage everyone to spend their reserves of Trooper Badges before those limits are enacted.



I am so angry right now... You are killing what this game ended up creating... a community...

If this is the response to it takes too long too play all our Troopers then I don't want it! You are taking Troopers out of the equation and also not letting us decide what to do with our earnings. Weekly limits for the Arena Store make sense as the Arena system is based on a weekly competition but Trooper Store should not be impacted.

In the early part of this year you teased that Trooper Eddie would be available from Trooper points so a few of us have stopped spending Trooper Badges and started collecting with the occasional spend on a bunch of special coloured souls when a new character of that class was introduced. This system makes sure that we cannot do that anymore... Leave it up to us to decide when to spend!

Before these limits kick in, please tell us how much we need for Trooper Eddie and when it will be released you cannot ask us to spend all we have earned and then flash a Trooper Eddie option which will take months to gather. We have already spent the months! You did it with the Eternal Soul for those who were lucky enough to be part of the PVP Beta do it again for those who have been there since Day 1. And please let us decide at least in the Trooper store on how to dispose of our badges as this is part of our strategies.

I just don't get all the constraints that you guys are imposing on us lately, what is going on... look at all the old timers leaving... don't you read the signs???

We are throwing amazing suggestions after amazing suggestions in these forums and all we get in return is silence and nerfs... Pretty interesting to nerf a store when nerving characters is not enough anymore...

To be fair, you have immense allies with us here and you should use us. We understand you need to make money and we are for this too but be fair to us please.

Events seem to be the flavour of the season but what would be very appreciated is for you to post a timeline of upcoming events so we can plan our spending accordingly, how many players spent all their ironite on BNW Souls to find out that MUR was just the week after and could not participate...

Be transparent, communicate and help us plan... As Iron Maiden say there is a "Greater Good" and this one will benefit you as well, trust me!

“The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him in the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk, but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle." Well I feel i should go back to stable now...

[Ian]

I wouldn't call them a horse, I'd call them c**ts

[DaveMurray]

I think it's becoming pretty clear that they just don't care to listen to their playerbase anymore.
I don't get how they ended up with another so bad decision, just when you think that it can't get any worse..

[kkkreg5]

The writing is on the wall for us Patrice. We just don't wish to read it.

I felt the exact same way about the changes to the store. NF does not want us to hoard. Use our resources to spend real money with no return. All they have to do is fix the Trooper system...

[slauki]

i get your anger guys, i felt the same, but let's see how this will work out first. sounds interesting for me at least. if they add some eternity frags to the store or some trooper eddie frags that could be cool.

call me an optimist, but this would be a good change. ofc it's much more likely that we might see some screw ups, but well who knows :D

[Silentknight]

i get your anger guys, i felt the same, but let's see how this will work out first. sounds interesting for me at least. if they add some eternity frags to the store or some trooper eddie frags that could be cool.

call me an optimist, but this would be a good change. ofc it's much more likely that we might see some screw ups, but well who knows :D

Their lack of info is pathetic as always! Don't really care if I blew all my trooper badges on skill shards cuz I'd only want Trooper Eddie if he's good in arena & that's a fuckin joke right now!!! As far as bug fixes...don't believe everything u read!

[tex-0775]

Warning, a lot of words will follow. Dunno either if i should have posted elsewhere, but here goes ;)

Dunno what to make of this, i usually don't play mobile games apart from the ocationally puzzle/brain game or such. To me, the problem is that this is an Iron Maiden themed game, and i guess the majority of players are playing cause they are IM fans. There are probably some suits sitting in the back, focusing only on the money and not caring one (sh)bit about Maiden or their fans. I assume that licensing isn't cheap either, so money is at the center and has to be made.

The game could just as well have been Disney themed or some random chars from whatever, the mechanics could just as well been used with other figures, and lets face it, the game is easy to complete in a relative short time. Since i became an endgamer, only a few new things have appeared. Arena, sacrifice (not a game...), BNW and various events. None of these would be enough to keep me interested after finishing the game, had it not been for IM and this community.

Back to the point, if one could see the economics regarding the game, i think that it will show that money doesn't come from endgamers, the big bucks come from new players trying to finsh campaign and advance in the arena, and unless these players are fans, they just finish the game, stop and move on to the next game. Thats what i did with pc/consol-games, after i finished a game i almost never played that one again.

What the suits apparently didn't took into account is that the hard rock/metal community see themselves as one big (worldwide) family, especially fans of Iron Maiden, and we don't take crap from noone, especially people that try to f*** us over again and again. To them (suits), endgames are only used to figure out where to nerf next, since there (apparently) is no code check or quality control whatsoever, and also to target areas where money can be made.

Don't get me wrong, i'm fully aware that money has to be made, but i think this is the wrong approach.

Finally (phew...), a saying in my own language, i can't translate it, maybe someone can: "Der er for langt mellem snapsene"

tex (why does random have to be spelled with a capital "Arrggh") :D

[R1ck]

i get your anger guys, i felt the same, but let's see how this will work out first. sounds interesting for me at least. if they add some eternity frags to the store or some trooper eddie frags that could be cool.

call me an optimist, but this would be a good change. ofc it's much more likely that we might see some screw ups, but well who knows :D
The game is designed for us to get 17500 badges per week and particularly I am only interested in skillshards ( let's say I am one of those who don't play PVP) , now every 2 weeks I would be able to get only 4 skillshards instead of 7, doesn't look fair to me. And of course I will get a pile of badges (7500 per week) because I don't care about any soul in the trooper store.

[Kaz_LOTB]

If this is the response to it takes too long too play all our Troopers then I don't want it! .

Hi guys,

Just wanted to chime in to explain a few things regarding the reinstating of limits in the Trooper Shop.

First of all, this is not a change being made in isolation. There are many updates and changes to the game that will be rolling out over the next few months and these limits are just a part of balancing the flow of resources in the economy given those changes. Without getting into too much detail or revealing exact dates, here is a preview of some of the content and features related specifically to this change that we are in the process of developing:


We are in the process of looking at speeding up the use of Troopers, and of playing quests in general, which will increase the speed and ease of earning Trooper Badges.


There are more items coming to the Trooper shop within the next few months, including the long heralded Trooper Soul. Our current plan is to offer a one-time, high cost Trooper Soul as well as the farmable weekly fragment option. The price has not been finalized for this Soul, but generally speaking it should not exceed the cost of using 50 troopers over a 5 week period (i.e. between 40K-to-50K Badges) though this is tentative and could change. In regards to how much heads up you'll have about when to start saving up, we are also going to start advertising what events are planned for the month in the News Feed to give people a better idea of what's to come. In theory, by the time we announce the release of this soul, you should have enough time to save up for at least one pull or at least dramatically shorten the time it will take for it.


With many upcoming events, we are looking for ways to ensure all players have some way of working towards the event rewards outside of just using the ironite or souls they have on hand. To that end there will be many events which will be making more use of all 3 shops in the game in new ways (Arena, Troopers, and Gold Shops). For this to work, we need to make the shops more consistent with each other so that something like unlimited access to rare souls doesn't completely break the economy of the game as it will imbalance the value of various activities and game modes.


In short, with some of the upcoming changes, you'll still be able to earn the same amount of resources, if not much more, but you won't have to dedicate as much energy and time to things like using Troopers. Instead, via events and upcoming features, there should be more of a perceptible cadence to where you can ideally spend you time to maximize your rewards in the game. Yes, this does mean you can't hoard points to buy souls / shards in bulk, but this is also the reason we are communicating these changes now. If you have large stores of Trooper Badges saved up, you may want to consider spending them now as, outside of the aforementioned Trooper Soul, there won't be much reason to save them.

Hopefully that helps explain that particular change. Sparton and I will try and be around on the forums today to answer any additional questions regarding this or other updates from the patch preview notes.

Cheers,

-Kaz

[Mariner-1212]

Kaz, thank you. All of this sounds great, and the communication is excellent. Love the plans to speed things up with Troopers and farming, love the monthly event overview, and everything makes much more sense now.

No questions here. Good job. \m/

[Patrice-1201]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to chime in to explain a few things regarding the reinstating of limits in the Trooper Shop.

First of all, this is not a change being made in isolation. There are many updates and changes to the game that will be rolling out over the next few months and these limits are just a part of balancing the flow of resources in the economy given those changes. Without getting into too much detail or revealing exact dates, here is a preview of some of the content and features related specifically to this change that we are in the process of developing:


We are in the process of looking at speeding up the use of Troopers, and of playing quests in general, which will increase the speed and ease of earning Trooper Badges.


There are more items coming to the Trooper shop within the next few months, including the long heralded Trooper Soul. Our current plan is to offer a one-time, high cost Trooper Soul as well as the farmable weekly fragment option. The price has not been finalized for this Soul, but generally speaking it should not exceed the cost of using 50 troopers over a 5 week period (i.e. between 40K-to-50K Badges) though this is tentative and could change. In regards to how much heads up you'll have about when to start saving up, we are also going to start advertising what events are planned for the month in the News Feed to give people a better idea of what's to come. In theory, by the time we announce the release of this soul, you should have enough time to save up for at least one pull or at least dramatically shorten the time it will take for it.


With many upcoming events, we are looking for ways to ensure all players have some way of working towards the event rewards outside of just using the ironite or souls they have on hand. To that end there will be many events which will be making more use of all 3 shops in the game in new ways (Arena, Troopers, and Gold Shops). For this to work, we need to make the shops more consistent with each other so that something like unlimited access to rare souls doesn't completely break the economy of the game as it will imbalance the value of various activities and game modes.


In short, with some of the upcoming changes, you'll still be able to earn the same amount of resources, if not much more, but you won't have to dedicate as much energy and time to things like using Troopers. Instead, via events and upcoming features, there should be more of a perceptible cadence to where you can ideally spend you time to maximize your rewards in the game. Yes, this does mean you can't hoard points to buy souls / shards in bulk, but this is also the reason we are communicating these changes now. If you have large stores of Trooper Badges saved up, you may want to consider spending them now as, outside of the aforementioned Trooper Soul, there won't be much reason to save them.

Hopefully that helps explain that particular change. Sparton and I will try and be around on the forums today to answer any additional questions regarding this or other updates from the patch preview notes.

Cheers,

-Kaz

Thanks Kaz this is exactly the kind of communication we need. I'll hold on to 60k trooper badges so don't up the price of the Trooper Soul too much ;-)

[druid138]

Kaz,

Thanks a lot for this additional info! This really helps to explain the rationale of the limits. The changes / updates that you outlined sound great. I particularly appreciate the focus on increased transparency (event calendar) and on providing a wider variety of ways to participate in events (via the 3 shops).

[Fudjo]

Many thanks for the detailed information, Kaz. It's definitely helpful and very much appreciated.

[Sidney]

[QUOTE=Kaz_LOTB;56567]Hi guys,

If you have large stores of Trooper Badges saved up, you may want to consider spending them now as, outside of the aforementioned Trooper Soul, there won't be much reason to save them.

Will we be given enough heads up as to when to use the excess badges and still keep enough around for using them on Trooper Eddie? I'd hate to get stuck with badges I can't use, but still want to keep enough around so I don't have to farm for 5 weeks to play with a new toy if I absolutely don't have to... :-)

[Kaz_LOTB]

[QUOTE=Kaz_LOTB;56567]Hi guys,

If you have large stores of Trooper Badges saved up, you may want to consider spending them now as, outside of the aforementioned Trooper Soul, there won't be much reason to save them.

Will we be given enough heads up as to when to use the excess badges and still keep enough around for using them on Trooper Eddie? I'd hate to get stuck with badges I can't use, but still want to keep enough around so I don't have to farm for 5 weeks to play with a new toy if I absolutely don't have to... :-)

The goal is to communicate the release of the Trooper Soul at the start of the month it will be released. So it is likely you'll be able to earn enough within that period (especially if you have active Troopers using your champion).

-Kaz

[Sidney]

[QUOTE=Sidney;56581]

The goal is to communicate the release of the Trooper Soul at the start of the month it will be released. So it is likely you'll be able to earn enough within that period (especially if you have active Troopers using your champion).

-Kaz

Thanks Kaz!!

Ok... so you're saying these are going to be "Specific" trooper badges to the event and our existing badges would be useless in this event? I love my troopers but I know I don't get badges from them everyday even though they get them from me everyday. Most of them do, but I know that all are not as dedicated. Just want to decide how much I should prepare on my own or will it be a month long grind regardless of how many trooper badges I hoard before the event.

[Kaz_LOTB]

[QUOTE=Kaz_LOTB;56582]

Thanks Kaz!!

Ok... so you're saying these are going to be "Specific" trooper badges to the event and our existing badges would be useless in this event? I love my troopers but I know I don't get badges from them everyday even though they get them from me everyday. Most of them do, but I know that all are not as dedicated. Just want to decide how much I should prepare on my own or will it be a month long grind regardless of how many trooper badges I hoard before the event.

No, they would be the same Trooper Badges. It's just that we'll give you enough heads up so that if you are low on Trooper Badges you will have time to save them up if you want an early pull at the Trooper Soul.

-Kaz

[The Educated fool]

pull at the Trooper Soul. -Kaz

Thanks for the info, Kaz, but this wording has me wondering a bit, so, to be clear: this Trooper Soul... it will guarantee that one pulls Trooper Eddie, right? Like the event souls do their characters? (ie. like Rescuer Souls do the Magus Undead Rescuer)? We wouldn't be spending 40-60k badges for an "increased chance" at drawing Trooper Eddie, correct?

Thanks for keeping us in the know. :cool:

[Kaz_LOTB]

Thanks for the info, Kaz, but this wording has me wondering a bit, so, to be clear: this Trooper Soul... it will guarantee that one pulls Trooper Eddie, right? Like the event souls do their characters? (ie. like Rescuer Souls do the Magus Undead Rescuer)? We wouldn't be spending 40-60k badges for an "increased chance" at drawing Trooper Eddie, correct?

Thanks for keeping us in the know. :cool:

The Trooper Soul will work just like the Eternity Soul. There are various characters in the soul and you will be pulling from that pool. That being said, around the time we release the Trooper Soul, we plan to also have some dupe protection implemented for both the Eternity and Trooper Soul so you will eventually get Trooper Eddie one way or another.

-Kaz

[The Educated fool]

I see.

Thanks for the clarification.

Guess it will be interesting to see what else one can pull from these...

[Ian]

I am glad that Kaz has at least stepped in and given more detail here, as the original announcement was obviously missing a lot of pertinent information.
And anything to make running through troopers a little less arduous is very welcome. I am not cracking open the champagne just yet but at least it appears concerns have been noted.

[Patrice-1201]

The Trooper Soul will work just like the Eternity Soul. There are various characters in the soul and you will be pulling from that pool. That being said, around the time we release the Trooper Soul, we plan to also have some dupe protection implemented for both the Eternity and Trooper Soul so you will eventually get Trooper Eddie one way or another.

-Kaz

And now i am all deflated again... All this saving and harD work for Trooper Eddie and we miget end up with someone else....

[Amarthir]

The Trooper Soul will work just like the Eternity Soul. There are various characters in the soul and you will be pulling from that pool. That being said, around the time we release the Trooper Soul, we plan to also have some dupe protection implemented for both the Eternity and Trooper Soul so you will eventually get Trooper Eddie one way or another.

-Kaz

If they're going to work like Eternity Souls, does that mean that fragments will be limited to 20 a week or by some form of number? Also, I think I missed whether or not trooper souls would be a permanent addition to the Fragments or BoS

[Kaz_LOTB]

If they're going to work like Eternity Souls, does that mean that fragments will be limited to 20 a week or by some form of number? Also, I think I missed whether or not trooper souls would be a permanent addition to the Fragments or BoS

There will be some limit per week, similar to Eternity Fragments. The One-Time Trooper Soul, as well as the Trooper Soul Fragments will be a permanent addition to the Trooper Shop. It will not be time limited like the One-Time Eternity Soul was.

-Kaz

[Dank Brew]

There will be some limit per week, similar to Eternity Fragments. The One-Time Trooper Soul, as well as the Trooper Soul Fragments will be a permanent addition to the Trooper Shop. It will not be time limited like the One-Time Eternity Soul was.

-Kaz

Good stuff. Now please hurry, I am dying over here waiting for this hahahah

[Kris-0707]

I've got 240k badges, so would be nice to know when you're planning to implement this new "patch" Also would be good to hear from you that you'll not nerf drop rates from G/A souls, drop rate atm is riddiculously low anyway. Few days ago I used about 60 G/A souls and got f**k all from them. I don't want to spend my precious badges hardly collected during last few months for 3 star crap toons.

[Dank Brew]

I've got 240k badges, so would be nice to know when you're planning to implement this new "patch" Also would be good to hear from you that you'll not nerf drop rates from G/A souls, drop rate atm is riddiculously low anyway. Few days ago I used about 60 G/A souls and got f**k all from them. I don't want to spend my precious badges hardly collected during last few months for 3 star crap toons.

240K :eek: wow nice commitment lol

[kkkreg5]

At least now we have some answers. Thank you Kaz.

[Kaz_LOTB]

I also would be good to hear from you that you'll not nerf drop rates from G/A souls, drop rate atm is riddiculously low anyway.

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

[Peppoah]

I see.

Thanks for the clarification.

Guess it will be interesting to see what else one can pull from these...

You'll get Trooper Eddie or another Dog.😂😂😂

[Amarthir]

My last inquiry is more speculation than anything on what would be in the Trooper Souls. If they follow the same pattern as Eternity Souls do then my best guess would be Trooper Eddie, Horus, Sekhmet and possibly the Alchemist

[Saigrim]

Call me an asshole if you will but I think it's a terrible fuckall idea. Us loyal diehard Troopers from day one should not have to fish for him in a pool of other shit toons.

One step closer to breaking the chain. They'll make it easy for me...

[Patrice-1201]

Call me an asshole if you will but I think it's a terrible fuckall idea. Us loyal diehard Troopers from day one should not have to fish for him in a pool of other shit toons.

One step closer to breaking the chain. They'll make it easy for me...

Could not agree more... the Trooper Soul available as one time should actually guarantee Trooper Eddie... the rest we can get over time with fragments but I refuse to have waited this long for another type of eternal soul...

[T-Man]

I do appreciate you providing more info on this Kaz. Though, I'm still not happy with the limits on trooper badges as far as skill shards are concerned. Could care less about the souls, but skill shards are the name of the game imo.

I have so many toons I'd like to shard, that new toons don't really matter much unless they are a true game changer. I may rather purchase more skill shards than a new toon with my trooper badges. Why take that option away?

I just spent my 100k+ badges on skill shards btw.

[DaveMurray]

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

How exactly are they more generous when you open 200-500 souls and get only 3*?
No one ever had problems to obtain toons when game launched as far as i am concerned.
The last 2 months i opened more than 500 souls of rare type and above and i only got a few useless 4*, rest were 3*.

[Lord-7618]

No one ever had problems to obtain toons when game launched as far as i am concerned.
The last 2 months i opened more than 500 souls of rare type and above and i only got a few useless 4*, rest were 3*

Exactly

[Kris-0707]

That's why I'm thinking how to use my badges ...
Option 1: buy 40 shards and have no top toons I need (to shard)
Option 2: take a risk and spend all badges for G/A souls having 99% chance to get f**k all

I wish to buy special super soul even for a price of 30-35k badges each and then have a window with selection of toons to pick one I need and have 100% chance to get it. I know, this will never going to happen ...

[mjmxiii]

Hey Kaz, are these Trooper souls going to be in line with Eternal souls (in the sense that it will be a small pool of characters that give us a much higher drop rate like the 25% chance on the Eternals and are also worthy of the time invested) or is it going to be more like the BNW and Xmas souls style where a bunch of diff souls have a chance of dropping with a higher chance for Troop Ed?

[PerthEddie]

Option 2: take a risk and spend all badges for G/A souls having 99% chance to get f**k all

I am in the same boat. I currently am sitting on 115K Trooper points. I already have 80 skill shards in my inventory so I could buy another 23 shards (I do have some chars I want to skill shards up) or, like Kris says, blow the lot on G/A Souls and have a 99% chance of getting bugger all. The fact we are both thinking like this is a sad indictment of the game's RNG that we both think we will waste our points by doing this :(

[Patrice-1201]

Here is a real suggestion that I would like KAZ and the team to take seriously to avoid another general disappointment: make the one time Trooper Soul from the Trooper Store guarantee Trooper Eddie.

Trooper fragments would be other characters or Trooper Eddie for those who do not want to buy the soul. Trust me for once, this would be welcomed by all. The wait for this guy was too long you can't throw in another RNG on us which will make it many more months to get him.

Most of us are Maiden fans and other toons are ancillary it is Eddie we care about and this one is special.

[Saigrim]

I am in the same boat. I currently am sitting on 115K Trooper points. I already have 80 skill shards in my inventory so I could buy another 23 shards (I do have some chars I want to skill shards up) or, like Kris says, blow the lot on G/A Souls and have a 99% chance of getting bugger all. The fact we are both thinking like this is a sad indictment of the game's RNG that we both think we will waste our points by doing this :(

Actually your junk drop rate is 99.99%. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Kaz_LOTB]

How exactly are they more generous when you open 200-500 souls and get only 3*?

We are considering ways to implement roll protection so a string of unlucky pulls is less likely, but there is no final plan for that as of yet.


Hey Kaz, are these Trooper souls going to be in line with Eternal souls (in the sense that it will be a small pool of characters that give us a much higher drop rate like the 25% chance on the Eternals and are also worthy of the time invested) or is it going to be more like the BNW and Xmas souls style where a bunch of diff souls have a chance of dropping with a higher chance for Troop Ed?

They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.

[kkkreg5]

We are considering ways to implement roll protection so a string of unlucky pulls is less likely, but there is no final plan for that as of yet.



They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.

Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.

[DaveMurray]

Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.

Pretty much agree. I don't care if the rest of the toons on the small pool will even be better than Trooper Eddie. It's just that we want him first!

[Kaz_LOTB]

Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.


Pretty much agree. I don't care if the rest of the toons on the small pool will even be better than Trooper Eddie. It's just that we want him first!

The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

[Patrice-1201]

The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

I still stand by my suggestion as after waiting for over a year a revolt will break if we do not get him on the first roll and with weekly limits will have to wait months for another shot... Why not making us happy on this one ;-)

[kkkreg5]

The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

After rolling 3 Beelzebubs since the beginning of the Eternals and feeling that disappointment, if it were to happen with Trooper Eddie I would probably quit the game and I'm not even "chasing" him. Others will definitely quit. This cannot be what NF wants. Please take this into consideration.

It seems that NF is listening, but it feels as though the decision has been made.

[slauki]

sorry guys don't wanna be a backstabber, but don't understand the hype about trooper eddie. in the end we have enough cool eddies, but some strong allies woule be more interesting for me. imagine trooper eddie is so powerfull like the mighty mystic eddie...well i wouldn't care to drop him much if other allies are powerhouses.

And oh man, some kind of roll protection would be awesome...
this would finally be a great feature, that would make everyone happy. pick a char afre 100 rares and 50 g/a or 50 special souls for example.

[Nifelheim]

All the troopers in the eternity souls are excellent, really looking forward to trooper souls and what to grind for.

[Dank Brew]

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

Either way G/A souls are terrible. Red eyes once a year, if even. I literally just used some and all crap as usual.

[Dank Brew]

Kaz,

I'm sure I can speak for a lot of people here. If I don't get trooper Eddie after saving for months, and then have to wait 5 more weeks to try again to not get him I will be extremely disappointed.

Hell, I am pissed off just thinking about it, cause I know it will happen.

At this point I don't even care what the other characters are. Trooper eddie is everyones favorite.

He is literally the reason I wanted to play in the first place, and you guys made me wait 2 years, and now I'm finding out I probably wont ever get him. I might as well quit now then, right? Should I just quit today Kaz?

[Digitalblaze]

this is a terrible idea..trooper eddie should be an achievement to earn not chasing at a chance thats BS! imo: should be implemented like GRE at x trooper point's get gold at y points get ironite ect until the player earns him, the whole save fragment and soul events are a mess and as stated by the majority of the us we'll up n leave if you get it wrong....again

[Witkacy]

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

Good evening, Kaz :)


That's an interesting statement, I have to say... I have totally different experience, sadly... Though, before I'll give some examples - one humble asking first:
Cut this BS, and STOP LYING, DEVS!, please... I am NOT an idiot, who swallows every word you say, because you say so... So you really don't have to make a fool of me (and so others all around)... Thank you :)
I don't blame you, though... You can't say anything different in the name of protecting your ass and so your business, that's pretty clear...

One word of explanation before I start: in below example focused on gaining just 5* characters from Rare Souls to everything look more clear...

Example #1: - comparing the ''Past'' and ''Present'' as for how many dropped characters:

During the first six months of play LOTB I've gathered such 5* characters as follows:

Alliance General
Corrupt General
Nomad (x3)
Viking Eddie

vs.

During the next the same period:

Shaman Eddie (which somehow should be excluded as got him during ''anniversary weekend'' where drops were totally different...)
Mystic Eddie

Opening (arguably) more or less the same amount of souls during these periods of time - in the past there were better drops of souls in LOL dungeons, later we could get them off achievements and so sacfifice as well... So I guess everything's more or less balanced... And we have 6>1(2)... Which logically allows me to think that droprates were LOT better in the past, than they are now...

Example #2:

Comparing the chances of dropping decent characters - again - ''Past'' and ''Present'':

1. 30th of January 2017: opening 22 Rare Souls from various places: LOLs, achievements etc. (I like to know when and what I am getting, at least for the decent stuff - so I CAN give the source... Pitty that you not implemented such option to your game to let the people know since when they have such toon - again no surprise - better not to pi*s off people reminding them how long they might be waiting for certain character to get, since they've started playing, eh?

The drops were as follows:

Viking (5*)
Pyro Soldier (4*)
Sentinel Soulless Demon (4*)

***

(The rest: 3* ''invaders'')... I could say - pretty decent, if you ask me...

vs.

2. 19th of July 2017: sacrifice reward - 50 Rare Souls opened:

Allied Bomber Boy (4*)

***

(The rest: 3* ''invaders'')... No comments needed, really...

So... How do you explain this amazing phenomenon has occured while I was having less souls (=less chances of getting decent character) and actually I've got lot more of them and the better ones (5*), than having almost 2x more souls and got hardly nothing in the end? Thanks...

Again... 3/22 > 1/50... Correct?

So what's your PROOFS to support your words, Kaz against mine (and probably some other forum members having the same sad experiences - who might be even opened a LOT more souls than I did to get noting but crap - which sounds even worse for you as you speak about your ''generosity'', TBH)?

Care (and dare) to show the community some solid, reliable data (% chances of droppings each level characters, % chances of getting duplicates, etc.)... Nothing to loose, really (if they are so good and generous, as you claiming);) Even for the fact to shut me up :) I bet everyobody would be happy to see them... I am SURE you have such info, yet sooner die, lads than publish anything would confirm that the droprates are BEYOND Mariana Trench... Period.

Cheers,

W

[Kaz_LOTB]

So... How do you explain this amazing phenomenon has occured while I was having less souls (=less chances of getting decent character) and actually I've got lot more of them and the better ones (5*), than having almost 2x more souls and got hardly nothing in the end?
W

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

[Dank Brew]

Well, i'm pretty damn pissed off now.

Twice today LoL froze on auto play. This time it was on my last SoT (which I payed ironite for a refill, and was going to do again.)

I should get 5 fragments for every freeze and glitch. And so should everyone else, not only do I waste my time waiting hoping it will eventually unfreeze, but also wasted SoT and no trooper points. Fucking ridiculous man.

I'd like an answer now, should I just quit today?

[Dank Brew]

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

As usual I get ignored again. I'll take that as a yes

[Amarthir]

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

I believe what Witkacy means is that we all want to know exactly what kinds of percentages there actually are to get 4 and 5* souls. I myself would also like to know because the community has had to figure out from our own experiences what kinds of RNG this game has and it's never just and exact number. After all, you can spend 50 souls and get 2 5* and 4 4* characters, and then spend another 50 and get only 3*. When you spend a high enough number you have to be assured that at least one soul will be more than 3 stars, but many people have come out with nothing to benefit from it. So it stands to reason that if we knew what the actual percentage was, we could do a better job on planning to get better characters. It would also keep us from investing in something that we know won't work out, this game is like a casino, we see all the pretty lights and we want to keep playing. But we lose more than we win and that's our problem.

[Chaosego888]

They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.
Kaz,
This is not the point. Myself, I would probably wan't one of the other characters in the pool first. That being said, You must understand that a huge percentage of Maiden fans discovered this band by the song 'The Trooper'. It has been well over a year, likely a year and half before this finally comes out. It is not something that I would revolt about but at the same time I would expect nothing less from the community. There is a certain lore attached to Trooper Eddie and your entire player base feels that this character should be awarded for time served here and they are right. A lot of these guys are my troopers and I don't want to lose any of them because of a bad decision. As much as all the nerfing of great characters to make it too easy to win in arena pisses me off, I usually don't come here to complain about it but there is no other way to say anything about making people wait any longer than necessary for Trooper Eddie. This would likely be the worst decision you guys could make!

[Kaz_LOTB]

I believe what Witkacy means is that we all want to know exactly what kinds of percentages there actually are to get 4 and 5* souls. I myself would also like to know because the community has had to figure out from our own experiences what kinds of RNG this game has and it's never just and exact number. After all, you can spend 50 souls and get 2 5* and 4 4* characters, and then spend another 50 and get only 3*. When you spend a high enough number you have to be assured that at least one soul will be more than 3 stars, but many people have come out with nothing to benefit from it. So it stands to reason that if we knew what the actual percentage was, we could do a better job on planning to get better characters. It would also keep us from investing in something that we know won't work out, this game is like a casino, we see all the pretty lights and we want to keep playing. But we lose more than we win and that's our problem.

Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to disclose those values. But I will say it's not very far off from most other games in our genre if not leaning more on the generous side (i.e. Summoners War, MSL, Contest of Champions, Fire Emblem, etc). It's pretty easy to find some comparable rates with a google search.

In the end though, I understand that RNG can "feel" unfair at times, just as it can feel incredibly rewarding when you finally get what you want. It's part of the push and pull of the system, which makes it so widely popularized. That being said, we feel some form of roll protection is still good so that no matter how much you invest, overtime it will pay off and that's currently the direction we are heading in. This is also why we try and ensure there are enough freely earnable natural 4 and 5 star monsters within the ecosystem. With something like the Trooper Soul, we are literally giving away one of the most popular Eddies along with other very powerful natural 5 star characters for free to players who work towards pursing it.

There do need to be some barriers to entry though to preserve game balance, establish longer-term goals, and promote roster diversity. But in the end, with continual engagement in events and maximizing your resources between the various game modes, you should be able to gradually work towards obtaining many, if not all, characters in the game.

-Kaz

[Kaz_LOTB]

...a huge percentage of Maiden fans discovered this band by the song 'The Trooper'....There is a certain lore attached to Trooper Eddie and your entire player base feels that this character should be awarded for time served here and they are right.

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

[Witkacy]

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

Not buying your explanation :) I would agree for ''random'' thing while getting EXACTLY random stuff of each pool of souls while repeated... That way could get some of the chars the same, other different, totally different, or all the same (with very small probability - but still), however you don't wanted it to happen - once pulled and repated 1000 times (due to disconnecting off your servers) - the result will be exactly the same - so where's random number generation gone? That's a kind of magic... Sure... I know - you've applied some algorithms for the ''good sake'' of players - to prevent cheating :)... Yet it seems that you're the ones who ''cheat''... with random things, which seem to NOT as random as they should be... As you guys have the HELL options to ''tweak'' the outcoming ''trials'' anyway you want...

I see that you not going to share how ''generous'' the odds may be? That's a pitty, really :) And this only confirms what I have written in my above post to you...

Cheers,

W

[Mizrael]

Good evening, Kaz :)
[One mans experience,based on 77 souls]

Cheers,

W

First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M



As usual I get ignored again. I'll take that as a yes

...Maybe you should consider...taking at least a break?...it's getting over your head a bit too much, mate...honestly

[Jofer16]

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

Kaz is right, it's just how RNG works.

Think of it this way, when you flip a coin the odds are 50% you're going to get the side you want. But flipping twice won't guarantee it. You could get lucky and hit your side first flip, or get extremely unlucky and flip 5+ times never seeing it. Doesn't mean the odds have changed in either case, you're just making determinations based on tiny sample sizes.

Like he says, in order to see true odds you need a giant sample, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of pulls.

I used to play digital trading card apps with odds that were actually stated and had to explain this to people so many times. Cards would be listed as 10%, people would open 10, not get it and claim the odds were rigged. It's just not how math works when randomness is involved. Can get lucky and hit the card first try, or get unlucky not seeing it after 50 attempts. Small sample sizes will show huge deviations based on luck.

I'd put getting a 4* bot in forged to fight (highest rank over there) around 1-2% in the basic crystals in that game (similar to rare souls here). So yeah, sometimes you'll get lucky and hit a 4* with minimal crystals, but you can also get unlucky, open 100+ and never see one. Doesn't mean the odds are changing, you're just looking at a tiny slice of the pie. Same goes here.

It's just like gambling on slot machines, etc in a casino. There's odds, but randomness also plays a major role.

[Chaosego888]

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-KazIt's not that big a deal to me, just trying to get you to understand where everyone is coming from. I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

[Patrice-1201]

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

i still believe that this would be the perfect occasion to finally give us some customer/supplier satisfaction. What is there to loose if you guarantee a path to it... why not change your mind for once and make him a guarantee in the one Time Soul...

We have already spent the time and efforts to get him... all those hours 50 Troopers everyday... what more can you expect???

Would this hurt your company? Probably not as much as it would please your customers...

[Witkacy]

First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M



Marku :)

First off... That what I've written were just EXAMPLES, first off head... So there's not true about my experience with 77 souls... That's cool you've opened them in amount of quadrillions... I honestly DON'T know how many opened them so far - A LOT - seems, fair?
As for gambling - I am NOT a gambler, and NEVER do anything I am not SURE I can win - one and only exception - can be shoot for sports (and for the prizes given to friends:)) at the shooting gallery... But that's it... There's NO gambling in this - just skills...

What can I say? I am TRULLY happy of your pulls, man! I think you deserved to have all these great chars... I haven't been as lucky as you - still don't have ANY assassin Eddie (besides 2x getting Storm, which ended up in the hole)... This only shows that ones being more lucky than others, despite playing the similar period of time... I am NOT surprised that you no complaing NOW - since you get almost all what you've wanted anyway... I am NOT complaing either, despite all this you've read in my post... I've just reffered to Kaz's post about droprates and shared SOME of my experience in that subject... Asked for some comments... That's it... And the fact I do NOT agree with some opinions being posted - well - I have such right, Am I?

So you don't have to ''defend'' anymore... As for Trooper Eddie... May be cool, no doubt - no interested of getting him (or anything else) right now - just enjoy my time :)

Miłego wieczoru ;)

Pozdro,

W

[Sparton_LOTB]

I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.

[MrFreeze]

I know this is the unpopular opinion on Trooper Eddie, but I don't really see it being that much of a problem. I'm guessing we'll be able to buy fragments weekly just like the arena store. For the record, I don't care what you guys do with it.

The people who are raising concerns are respectable players and forum members though, so I think taking their opinions into consideration is worthwhile.

[mjmxiii]

First of all, thank you Kaz and Sparton for trying to slow down the runaway train. Obviously, we're all very passionate about the game and Maiden lore. I chased CG for a year, Prisoner took almost that long to get and just summoned Nomad last week. The RNG is a pain but I myself must not mind the chase because I am still here. Guess I've accepted that it's a gamble. While the odds are never in our favor nor as generous as some say they were initially, I agree that we see more ways now to aquire the opportunity to take our chances.

Secondly, Jofers explanation of the RNG system makes complete sense and none of us have pulled enough of all souls to get an accurate figure on drop rates. The sample sizes are too small even in the 1000+ range, a number which I would find hard to believe many of us have surpassed more than once in a years time in the Legendary, GA or Rare classes.

Lastly, as upsetting as it was to pull one Eternal dupe, I was lucky enough to go 4/5 with Eternals. For those who know that frustration to greater extent, this dupe prevention feature will be a much appreciated addition to the game and I genuinely hope that it brings players like J back into the fold. Although bugs had a part and are a reason a bunch people have left, I believe 3 dupe Beelzebub pulls were the short straws that broke the camel in half in his case, respectively.

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

It would be a bit more of "chasing" than RNG, but randomness would still play a role and for those of us who have chased chars for the better part of a year, a welcome alternative to RNG in the BoS. So I guess, since this is an open forum and for the most part, one of the more contsructive threads we've had, it is more so your thoughts on expanding our options within the game, in that collecting aspect, that I'm asking about.

[Chaosego888]

I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.
OK. Cool and thanks for the Duplicate prevention idea also.

[JJJ428]

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

It would be a bit more of "chasing" than RNG, but randomness would still play a role and for those of us who have chased chars for the better part of a year, a welcome alternative to RNG in the BoS. So I guess, since this is an open forum and for the most part, one of the more contsructive threads we've had, it is more so your thoughts on expanding our options within the game, in that collecting aspect, that I'm asking about.

I love this idea so much, I would gladly save my fragments if I knew I was working to few toons I was still missing. The other thing I would like to see as a super special event but a 5 star toon fragment event like we had the immortal eddie event. Since we did one for the 5 star eddie I think it be good to one for all 5 star toons as well. Heck make it a Brave New world event too (i know people will hate me for that comment). But I think it be worth it for some end game players to try and get any high level toons that might still be missing.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Secondly, Jofers explanation of the RNG system makes complete sense and none of us have pulled enough of all souls to get an accurate figure on drop rates. The sample sizes are too small even in the 1000+ range, a number which I would find hard to believe many of us have surpassed more than once in a years time in the Legendary, GA or Rare classes.

I do transaction lookups on myself, Kaz, and some other top players from time to time (either when subjects like this come up or as random sampling/targeted investigation for exploits), and you'd be surprised. Obviously some spenders will have way more Rare Soul openings, but a lot of low-spend to free players have racked up an impressive amount of summons, especially those who saved up since before Sacrifice was released. You're right that not many have passed 1000 3 to 5 star soul openings, but many have (although not sure how many have gotten past 2000). Much like the fragment drop rate threads, you guys usually get within spitting distance of the real odds (although sometimes you get unlucky... poor druid138 definitely is getting a bit below average Golden Son Fragments in the current event).


That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

I can't give you any solid details right now, because we're still working out that plan, and projecting what it means not just for Eternity Souls and the eventual Trooper Souls, but for other high-value, feature-associated special souls. In general, though, I don't think we want players to avoid getting something like the Eternity Soul so they can instead save up for a 3x cost Eternity Eddie Soul right away; we want players to still get those Eternity Souls, but also build up a guarantee as they open more of them.

[DaveMurray]

Kaz is right, it's just how RNG works.

Think of it this way, when you flip a coin the odds are 50% you're going to get the side you want. But flipping twice won't guarantee it. You could get lucky and hit your side first flip, or get extremely unlucky and flip 5+ times never seeing it. Doesn't mean the odds have changed in either case, you're just making determinations based on tiny sample sizes.

Like he says, in order to see true odds you need a giant sample, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of pulls.

I used to play digital trading card apps with odds that were actually stated and had to explain this to people so many times. Cards would be listed as 10%, people would open 10, not get it and claim the odds were rigged. It's just not how math works when randomness is involved. Can get lucky and hit the card first try, or get unlucky not seeing it after 50 attempts. Small sample sizes will show huge deviations based on luck.

I'd put getting a 4* bot in forged to fight (highest rank over there) around 1-2% in the basic crystals in that game (similar to rare souls here). So yeah, sometimes you'll get lucky and hit a 4* with minimal crystals, but you can also get unlucky, open 100+ and never see one. Doesn't mean the odds are changing, you're just looking at a tiny slice of the pie. Same goes here.

It's just like gambling on slot machines, etc in a casino. There's odds, but randomness also plays a major role.

Unfortunately, as much as it hurts me and i still bitch about it sometimes, this is exactly how RNG works.
A few may get lucky and pull everything from simple rare souls and others pull 100 pharaoh dogs from Legendary Souls, fuckin pharaoh dog..
I still hope that i will get decent toons in the future as long as G doesn't pick Prisoner :p


Heck make it a Brave New world event too (i know people will hate me for that comment).

I hate you :p

[mjmxiii]

I do transaction lookups on myself, Kaz, and some other top players from time to time (either when subjects like this come up or as random sampling/targeted investigation for exploits), and you'd be surprised. Obviously some spenders will have way more Rare Soul openings, but a lot of low-spend to free players have racked up an impressive amount of summons, especially those who saved up since before Sacrifice was released. You're right that not many have passed 1000 3 to 5 star soul openings, but many have (although not sure how many have gotten past 2000). Much like the fragment drop rate threads, you guys usually get within spitting distance of the real odds (although sometimes you get unlucky... poor druid138 definitely is getting a bit below average Golden Son Fragments in the current event).


Wow dude, that is an impressive amount of souls opened in the past year, when you really think about it.. Would be cool to see how many souls in respective types we've opened on average over this last year. I tend to feel bad for a lot of these guys too as RNG has been kind to me in recent months and I now pretty much have all the chars I really wanted.



I can't give you any solid details right now, because we're still working out that plan, and projecting what it means not just for Eternity Souls and the eventual Trooper Souls, but for other high-value, feature-associated special souls. In general, though, I don't think we want players to avoid getting something like the Eternity Soul so they can instead save up for a 3x cost Eternity Eddie Soul right away; we want players to still get those Eternity Souls, but also build up a guarantee as they open more of them.

Hey on this one, it would make sense not to include the Eternals and Troopers as selectable fragment claims, because there is such a limited pool of chars to pull from and since this dupe prevent thing is something thats getting implemented on those 2 groups of chars anyway, Trooper Ed should show up before a dupe does and I'm ok with that, even though many aren't. I was speaking more about Legendary and the souls below them, but its just an idea I've had for a while... had to share. Just thinking of ways to bring some of these guys back to the game.

[Kris-0707]

I think, we all should to stop buying anything from the store (I stopped doing that months ago). Maybe no income from the players will pull some strings and devs will finally start to make something what this awesome community want.
NF don't forget that most of us (incl. myself) are here only because we're truly IM fans and your game slowly is going away and away from the true legacy of our famous band. If I was you, I would expect that soon (maybe after new patch) plenty of players will leave and I would finally start to listen to community - sooner than later to prevent that, make us happy, give us what we want.

[Patrice-1201]

I think, we all should to stop buying anything from the store (I stopped doing that months ago). Maybe no income from the players will pull some strings and devs will finally start to make something what this awesome community want.
NF don't forget that most of us (incl. myself) are here only because we're truly IM fans and your game slowly is going away and away from the true legacy of our famous band. If I was you, I would expect that soon (maybe after new patch) plenty of players will leave and I would finally start to listen to community - sooner than later to prevent that, make us happy, give us what we want.

I'm in... sadly but if this is what it takes...

[T-Man]

Since it's been ignored, I take that as there is no hope on reconsidering trooper badge store limits? At least on skill shards. 3 instead of 2 even? Come on devs?

[Kris-0707]

Looks like it.
Is no point to ask devs for anything, I just bought 30 skill shards + 9 g/a souls (got Tailgunner and 8x3 stars crap). 60k badges left for new Eddie.

[slash1424]

Looks like it.
Is no point to ask devs for anything, I just bought 30 skill shards + 9 g/a souls (got Tailgunner and 8x3 stars crap). 60k badges left for new Eddie.

For a chance at new eddie.....

[mjmxiii]

Do you guys really want to boycott the store? I will look into creating some type of poll to see if that helps the devs realize that limiting this games resources is a bad idea. But everyone needs to voice their opinion with it and then if NF go ahead with it, then I say hell yeah, lets boycott that shit. We are their bosses. We dictate the flow. If we stick together on shit like this, they have no choice but to listen to us. We are not at their mercy, they are at ours. Believe that shit!

[Jofer16]

Do you guys really want to boycott the store? I will look into creating some type of poll to see if that helps the devs realize that limiting this games resources is a bad idea. But everyone needs to voice their opinion with it and then if NF go ahead with it, then I say hell yeah, lets boycott that shit. We are their bosses. We dictate the flow. If we stick together on shit like this, they have no choice but to listen to us. We are not at their mercy, they are at ours. Believe that shit!

people still venture into the store? you guys are braver than I. just trying to come back and play a little and got this weird bug where I have a giant stack of shards and everytime I try to sell one, get a server error and crash, restarts don't fix it. ugh, makes me want to put it back down.

[mjmxiii]

people still venture into the store? you guys are braver than I. just trying to come back and play a little and got this weird bug where I have a giant stack of shards and everytime I try to sell one, get a server error and crash, restarts don't fix it. ugh, makes me want to put it back down.
That is the most annoying bug dude! I am convinced that every time runes go over 999 and create a new stack, it causes the MAC errors. Tried selling them in increments of every quantity and it happens no matter how many I sell at a time. They know about it... theyll get to it...its been like that for months... we have to request them to be sold through CS.

[Nicko]

Do you guys really want to boycott the store? I will look into creating some type of poll to see if that helps the devs realize that limiting this games resources is a bad idea. But everyone needs to voice their opinion with it and then if NF go ahead with it, then I say hell yeah, lets boycott that shit. We are their bosses. We dictate the flow. If we stick together on shit like this, they have no choice but to listen to us. We are not at their mercy, they are at ours. Believe that shit!

There was a player months ago - Flying V - very polarizing - who led a campaign to boycott the store. He had a reasonable number of people add "Boycott the store blah blah blah" to their sig lines. I don't think it had any effect - in fact I saw a few "Buy what you f'n want at the store" as well after that...

This whole discussion has me a little perplexed. Most here griping are reasonably active in PvP. You'll get the same number of shards each week with this new system - so what's the difference?

Not getting it. Four shards is four shards.

Same with Trooper Eddie. Dang - Eternity Eddie would be my LAST Eternal choice - VHE is really the only relevant Eddie at this point - so unless one is a collector - if I got Trooper Eddie he'd probably be sitting on the bench next to Eternity, Samurai, and Viking. I'd rather have Horus or another cool toon.

Certainly I could be off on this. Maybe Trooper Eddie is the next game breaking toon. But if history is any indicator - that's probably not the case - not to mention it's been stated loud and clear you WILL eventually get him and you will have plenty of time to save trooper badges because they will announce the soul weeks in advance.

Griping cause your game is always crashing? Or dealing with a ton of the stuff on Black Steels bugs thread? That I get cause it directly affects gameplay. Griping cause you can't get Trooper Eddie first day and your 4 skill shards are coming from different sources?

Still not getting it...

[JJJ428]

Thank you Nicko I am with you. I get some of the complaining in the forum but this trooper limit and having to have trooper eddie day one makes no sense. Its not like they are limiting an infinite farmable resource. As we have said before at best you can get 17500 trooper points a week and thats only if all 50 troopers are reliable and play every day. How much does limiting the skull shards to two a week really hurt? Plus like you said they are compensating by upping the arena the two a week. I can see somethings they do as quit worthy but this huge uproar over limiting trooper points and trooper eddie seems a bit overblown even for here. I think a few people need to take a breath and take a step back every once and awhile.

[mjmxiii]

Notice how no one actually said, "yes, we really want to boycott!" LMFAO... I remember the boycott signature that was going around back then. I say it will make as big a difference now as it did back then, 0.0 to 0.1 tenths of a percent difference.

In my opinion, I agree that we need to be far more concerned with bugs that have never been addressed or still happen even though they are fixed. I said in a prior post that Troop Ed will come eventually, before dupes do... but they shouldnt lock up skill shards, in fact I think they should open them up more! Unlimited in both stores because at the moment, I need hundreds of them! And at this rate, I'm gonna be ready for a rocking chair by the time I finish maxing these toons man!

[Inishmore]

It’s interesting how the discussion here in the forum is kind of biased at the moment. Yes, there are bugs and yes, there are overpowered characters. However for me the main problem was, not knowing what will be done and where the game was going. I am not willing to spend real money, if there are no plans for the future. Therefore I am really grateful for Kaz and Sparton taking the time to answer questions and smooth things out with the player base. It shows they did notice that there was a general dissatisfaction among the regular players and they acted accordingly.

Now there is always a difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. Nonetheless I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see whether NF is going where their mouth is. In other words the next two updates are crucial to me and we will see how that will come out.

Finally concerning the trooper store limits: I do not share the negative attitude of the majority (?) in here. Yes, I would prefer to have none however at max you were able to buy 3 skill shards per week via the shop. Now that is limited to 2. If you look at the numbers it’s not that bad especially because the number of skill shards available in the arena store will be raised. So all in all you can get the same amount via different channels. If you look at the percentage it is bad, since it equals a 50% reduction of availability. And yes, players (as myself) not playing 300 battles a week in the arena have a disadvantage now. But still in my opinion that is not a deal (or game) breaker if the other concerns are being addressed.

So to sum it up: Thanky you Kaz and Sparton for taking the time and share NFs plans that was necessary to calm our temper. However it is now up to you to actually deliver… so no pressure there!

[DaveMurray]

Boycott the store? Come one who are we kidding? I myself told that i won't buy anything again 3 times and i always do..

[slauki]

i'm with nicko, jjj and inishmore, cannot see the reason to start a riot because of this. 4 shards is 4 shards and actually it'S better that we can spend some coins and save some badges, so we can buy other cool stuff from the trooper store.

so actually they do us a favour, if it works like they have announced. we will have 7k badges we can invest in the other parts of the store while our total skillshard amount is not affected. what exactly is bad about this?

if you complain about never ending bugs, okay, but this discussion about 2 or 3 skillshard is really unnecessary and causes unnecessary bad vibritions.

[Patrice-1201]

To me the point is also about the souls
For instance when Lystic was released I spent a bit of badges on blue souls and got him like that. Basically I will always save badges and spend some On souls when a new toon of that class is released. Can't do that anymore with weekly limits...

[mjmxiii]

Boycott the store? Come one who are we kidding? I myself told that i won't buy anything again 3 times and i always do..
Calling peoples bluffs is always fun as far as I'm concerned....People talk but no one really wants to follow through with the riot. We love this game and we all take this a bit too seriously, one way or another and its hard to read levity and sarcasm without this emoji :rolleyes: working ...:rolleyes: I just picked up two sets of Chance this morning. Was way easier than grinding BNW ad naseum. Immortal talismans next please!

Still though... I stand by my initial thoughts on store limits.. for reasons like this...

The game is designed for us to get 17500 badges per week and particularly I am only interested in skillshards ( let's say I am one of those who don't play PVP) , now every 2 weeks I would be able to get only 4 skillshards instead of 7, doesn't look fair to me...

And this...

To me the point is also about the souls
For instance when Lystic was released I spent a bit of badges on blue souls and got him like that. Basically I will always save badges and spend some On souls when a new toon of that class is released. Can't do that anymore with weekly limits...

I dont have an issue with Trooper Ed and how he will drop knowing that dupe prevention will be implemented and agree with Slauki and Nicko that the other Trooper chars will more than likely be more effective than another Ed. People who don't play PvP religiously or who have yet to amass a large amount of gold will suffer most and like Patrice eluded to, we won't have much choice but to buy the special souls when chars like Mystic are released if we want to get a specific char and it makes more PvP a necessity if we want max skill shards. Still, none of this stuff is a deal breaker as much as bugs are. Stability is non-existent and that should be the top priority atm. Reading Spartons post in the PVP Attrition thread is cool but we can only wait and see how it goes. Would also like to see different chars with the ability to lead teams in PvP as Eds are basically VHE if you have him and no decent substitute if you don't. Thats a different subject though.

[druid138]

To me the point is also about the souls
For instance when Mystic was released I spent a bit of badges on blue souls and got him like that. Basically I will always save badges and spend some On souls when a new toon of that class is released. Can't do that anymore with weekly limits...

I do the same thing.

I guess I'm just not seeing the rationale behind Soul and Skill Shard limits in the Trooper Store. The limits make sense to me in the Arena Store, because there are no limits on how many Iron Coins a player can acquire (if they are willing to spend $ to do so). But, Trooper Badges already have a hard limit per day. So, I don't understand the need to have additional limits on top of that.

That said, as I noted in another post, I'm less concerned about this now, given the additional info the devs have provided since the initial tuning notes post. Patrice's example is the biggest issue I have now.

[T-Man]

The main point against store limits is why. Don't see a point in it. So what if we get the same amount of skill shards. We need more skill shards overall. Other than the bugs, this is my biggest issue with the game. It will take years to shard even 1/4 of the toons available.
It's another option/choice being taken away. That just isn't cool.

I'm also a bit burnt out on the Arena. The shit ton of bugs and numerous daily crashes there doesn't help. So I may want to cut back on arena play? This is the biggest time sucker in the whole game. It also screws up doing other things on Saturday. Now We are forced to play even more if we want skill shards.

Overall it's about options and freedom to spend as we so choose. I don't care as much about needing Trooper Eddie immediately as some, but to each their own. My first 2 externals were Belze's, and yes that did suck. However it seems the devs are putting some things in place to take care of that.

I'm all about freedom of choice. The only eternal that I sharded is wrath. The others aren't game changers. Who knows if Trooper Eddie will be a game changer. With the limits you will be forced to buy him and the other new toons with trooper badges regardless.

Bottom line, I am going to keep playing, but I just don't see a point in the limits.

[R1ck]

I also don't agree with skillshard limit in Trooper store, many people say it is fine because they will increase the possibility to buy one more in arena store, well not every body plays PVP and any change should be thought on all types of players. They will be affected because will get 2 skillshards instead of 3 per week.

[Nicko]

I also don't agree with skillshard limit in Trooper store, many people say it is fine because they will increase the possibility to buy one more in arena store, well not every body plays PVP and any change should be thought on all types of players. They will be affected because will get 2 skillshards instead of 3 per week.

I see what you're saying - this affects the player who is interested in PvE but not PvP - but if that was the argument what about the the flip? The player who cuts down his Troopers to play more PvP? He may appreciate that he can now get 2 in the arena store and not have to grind through endless Troopers for skill shards. Not everyone is thrilled to keep playing GoD 50 times everyday for skill shards.

Of course "remove the limits" is screamed - which would be really awesome - especially if it was the arena store - cauee I'd be able to buy about 200 skill shards - but they seem to want to cap the amount you can purchase to four a week - and I still don't see it as a big deal dividing them between the arena and Trooper stores.

[R1ck]

what about the the flip? The player who cuts down his Troopers to play more PvP? He may appreciate that he can now get 2 in the arena store and not have to grind through endless Troopers for skill shards. Not everyone is thrilled to keep playing GoD 50 times everyday for skill shards.
They can "choose" what to do to get skillshards depending on what they like, not everyone is thrilled to play PVP either. It is ok devs add new ways to get skillshards but IMO not should restric the possibility two get at least 3 skillshards from trooper store.
Also many people are not interested on buying souls from that store, it has been very long time i don't do it because all I get are dupes, so what will happen when I get all toons from the new troopers souls? I will hoard trooper badges.
My 2 cents
Cheers, good evening :)

[kkkreg5]

How about the devs make the shards removable? That would solve lots of problems...

[surfingwithdje]

I guess I'm just not seeing the rationale behind Soul and Skill Shard limits in the Trooper Store. The limits make sense to me in the Arena Store, because there are no limits on how many Iron Coins a player can acquire (if they are willing to spend $ to do so). But, Trooper Badges already have a hard limit per day. So, I don't understand the need to have additional limits on top of that.


That's exactly what i think... why add limits to the trooper store when the trooper badges are already limited (we can't buy them for $ and we can't have more than 17500/week) ?
I understand limits for the future soul fragments in that store but why for the other souls and the skillshards ?

Instead of that, the next update looks good: more things to buy with our iron coins and our gold, bugs fixes, a character tuning without nerfs... it's nice :)