New Apple Loot Box Rules

[Nicko]

Liebhild posted an interesting link in another thread.

Basically, Apple wants players to know the odds when spending on "chance" activities in video games. The obvious target in LotB is the Book of Souls.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/apple-now-requires-app-store-games-with-loot-boxes-to-list-odds/

According to the article the rules went into effect last Wednesday.

I went to both the iTunes app store and the NF website and didn't see anything listed.

Sparton or Kaz - is this "Lootbox" rule applying to you? And if so when and where will the odds be posted? Will the posted odds be the same for Android as well?

Thanks!

[gmac]

Hey Nicko!

Great post :-)

Would they have to post just the odds for like a lv4 toon, or the odds for that being a dupe as well?

Come on now, I got at least 10 Assassin Tricksters so far, no Astra. I still don't have a Prisoner (lost count of Cyborgs and Aces High)...

... and... I bought 90 Valkyries souls with ZERO of them in return.

What are the odds of that?!?

This game needs a shard system for toons, regular toons, and a shard system for events as well (bought x souls guaranteed the new toon)

Last thing, there are SO MANY new toons at each update... so the odds are always worst for the toons you don't have.

What do you guys think?

Cheers
gmac

[Nicko]

"Fire Emblem Heroes offers an example of how this odds-listing system could work in action. Now, when you mull over which of the game's slot machines you want to pay currency to (there's typically a couple to pick from), you should expect to see a list of every single hero in the game, along with a variety of "rarities" that determine strength and other combat attributes, with a percentage likelihood attached."

Obviously most of us won't be concerned about 3* or below. It will also be interesting to see if the long-held conspiracy theory that certain accounts are tagged to get certain toons frequently (aka "shit dupe") and not others is addressed.

[gmac]

Obviously most of us won't be concerned about 3* or below. It will also be interesting to see if the long-held conspiracy theory that certain accounts are tagged to get certain toons frequently (aka "shit dupe") and not others is addressed.

I said this before, it feels like the more successful you get, the more the game pushes you away...

Newer player seems to be given better odds from RNG (I'm totally ok with that)

I just wish we had more transparency, so we can choose to participate, or not.

cheers
gmac

[slauki]

now this is really interesting guys. if i understand it right, apple forces the companies to reveal the odds for purchsable items. (sad that apple cares more about customers than our slowassed governments)

if you ask me this is really necessary, the companies like NF want our money which is okay, but they have to let us, know what we will get for it. this a slotmachines like gamble and at least we should know the odds for winning the prices. right now it like the wild west with very litte restrictions. a paradise for companies and a hell for the customers.

NF it's your turn now, hope we will get some answers soon :)

EDIT: thanks for opening this thred nicko, great work.

[Kardas]

Sounds very intriguing. Reminds me of the Dropchance threads me and Slauki made last year. Those threads are still collecting dust somewhere here I'm sure.

I recall that after the new Battlefront II came out with its lootbox issue that the Dutch 'chance games authority' (translated literally here) said that they were going to investigate if these types of games would fall under some sort of gambling.

Note that the BoS is not the only chance-based thing here that we don't know about. We have no clue about level drops either (the percentage of Talisman drops from BNW, or Rare Souls from LoL for instance).
And I would be very curious just how big the odds of a new character are in all the special event souls we've had so far.

[blade685]

it will be good to know the chance to drop good toons

[Askora]

Haven't seen it mentioned, but the possibility exists that they just get rid of the loot box type purchases. It could mean a change in the game economy and still no information on odds. If souls aren't purchased directly with real money, odds don't need to be given. The flip side is probably reduced rewards available freely.

Also the way I read it, the information only needs to be given when purchasing. So, could be that info only shows up for iOS users (presumably someone would share it).

[Sparton_LOTB]

Thanks for creating a separate thread for the discussion.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot new to clarify on the subject right now; it was quite a surprise when we found out about the guideline change late last week, and we're still working with Apple to better understand these new guidelines and what information they want to make sure is communicated.

That said, myself or someone else from the team will share more when we have further information, but I expect that may take a week or more before anything comes to light of it.

[Nicko]

Thanks Sparton - much appreciated!

[MrFreeze]

Thanks for creating a separate thread for the discussion.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot new to clarify on the subject right now; it was quite a surprise when we found out about the guideline change late last week, and we're still working with Apple to better understand these new guidelines and what information they want to make sure is communicated.

That said, myself or someone else from the team will share more when we have further information, but I expect that may take a week or more before anything comes to light of it.

Have you guys considered just being open with all of the different drop rates? I doubt it would really affect who plays or not. It would also be looked at as a progressive move by other developers and the media. You could possibly generate publicity and new interest in the game by doing it.

[Liebhild]

Funny how long it takes to publish some simple numbers ;-)

This is again an evidence of the fraudulent NF-behavior.

[Sick]

Well, they have done something. If you purchase ironite on an iOS device now, you have to click that you will not use your right to return your purchase within a given time when you have not used it.
I guess they will publish something soon and it is going to be so bad that they are afraid the players will return their purchases.

[scott-5496]

I think this is a positive move and is needed. I often wondered in this and other games why no one knows about rates and drops. I am glad we will all know eventually what these rates are.

I am not so sure how great it will look though as I am sure drop rates are terrible for the big wins. I know for sure that when I buy soul packs etc I rarely if ever get anything decent or what I want - but I still usually buy a pack as I cant resist. One day I will learn....maybe! To think that 900 ironite (if not spent on a soul pack) could be thrown at BNW or LOL etc and you know you are going to get something you can use really does make a lot more sense. But watching my two kids play this game as well is interesting - they are all about the chance to win something big......and they do get these from time to time. They both have toons that I don't and they crow for days when they get a great toon to use. Meanwhile I just keep on auto grinding....LOL. It is still the best way to get stuff for nothing.....gold, SoT, ironite and upgrade stuff....it just takes time and no gambling (well not much gambling).

Openness is usually always for the better. We shall see!

[GotN]

Funny how long it takes to publish some simple numbers ;-)

This is again an evidence of the fraudulent NF-behavior.

Wouldn’t call this „fraudulent“, it‘s just business. Ofc no company wants to show his ways to be successful and make money, what is quite understandable, until they are forced to. Not good for us, but that‘s just the way it goes. Nevertheless I‘m also for transparency in this issue, especially as this game is mainly based on RNG. So yes, bring it in and we hope to hear details from it soon! Thanks in advance Sparton and Co.!

[Heavy1974]

Honestly-i don`t give a rats ass about the rates. Knowing that i have 1% to get a special toon and not getting it
or not kwnowing the percentage and getting it not - who cares.
The game itself is free to play, paid for ironite here and there to play some extra rounds on events-nothing more.

Best toons I have came by coinicidence-not for payment.

[MrFreeze]

Well, they have done something. If you purchase ironite on an iOS device now, you have to click that you will not use your right to return your purchase within a given time when you have not used it.
I guess they will publish something soon and it is going to be so bad that they are afraid the players will return their purchases.

Interesting. I didn’t know something like that could be done. Purchasing won’t be an issue for me right now. I’m using the NF way to go about it. All purchases have been “unexpectedly delayed” with no time frame set to change it.

[Yup]

Funny how long it takes to publish some simple numbers ;-)

This is again an evidence of the fraudulent NF-behavior.


I wouldn't call it "Fraudulent" either.. but stalling ... yes absolutely :D They know the rates.

Business probably dictates that a company avoid disclosing this until they absolutely have to.

[Liebhild]

Over a month now...