7th Son has revealed lots of problems

[Ezz]

So with our latest Eddie addition and the new defenses of the week that are posting incredible hold rates I have taken it upon myself to test new ways to beat this defense. Since I don’t have 7th son that means live pvp testing - and a miserable win rate of 78% this week.

I’m ok taking the hit, part of the fun of this game is testing creative teams to find what works. But sadly all I am finding this week is what does not work.

Here are a list of bugs/issues I am finding making it very aggravating and difficult to defeat said team:

Prisoner passive block not working against blockers if going second

Warlord passive to remove enemy beneficial effects does not work when teamed with prisoner

Witch Doctor passive to curse enemies if he is stunned frozen or tainted not working

Gunner chopper power move (even with crit strike and ascension) unable to kill enemies when WUR is present on defense team and WUR block is disabled.

WUR when on defense is granting HP back to allies when he hits and his heal triggers

Those are the main issues I remember but I am sure there are many I have forgotten. I should have won many games that I have lost due to the issues above.

It’s one thing to release a very rare and incredibly overpowered Eddie. I’m ok with that - but at least make the tools we have to combat him work properly so we have a chance. I’m guessing some others have found effective teams to combat the D of the week but the issues above still need to be addressed.

That said - I’m annoyed and done testing - I’ll avoid those defenses now until these characters are fixed. I think I can still finish the week with a respectable position.

[JJJ428]

Ezz one thing I like to point out is witch doctor can not curse most of the teams because of Astra’s passive. I know most of the defenses use her so I am thinking that is the issue. I know I was thinking of using the witch doctor as well. While he didn’t seem to work as well as I hoped I am looking at him more because I think he had some untapped potential.

[JJJ428]

Also not sure I understand the point about WUR granting HP back to allies isn’t he suppose to do that.

That being said when I face these seventh son defenses WUR seems a lot harder to kill then I remember and when he is used in other defenses he doesn’t seem that bad so not sure what interaction is causing this.

[Ezz]

Ezz one thing I like to point out is witch doctor can not curse most of the teams because of Astra’s passive. I know most of the defenses use her so I am thinking that is the issue. I know I was thinking of using the witch doctor as well. While he didn’t seem to work as well as I hoped I am looking at him more because I think he had some untapped potential.

You might be right JJJ - I thought I had also tested it with all enemy passives blocked using gunner choppers power move, but I could be wrong.

[slauki]

Also not sure I understand the point about WUR granting HP back to allies isn’t he suppose to do that.

yeah he alwayes worked that way, that's not new. but ezz has many good points. prisoner shouls also disable passives when going 2nd otherwise he is useless for example.
i'm too lazy to point out more points, since i wrote enough today :P

[Ezz]

Also not sure I understand the point about WUR granting HP back to allies isn’t he suppose to do that.

That being said when I face these seventh son defenses WUR seems a lot harder to kill then I remember and when he is used in other defenses he doesn’t seem that bad so not sure what interaction is causing this.

Sorry I meant to say granting full HP back to allies. Max should only be 40% of his HP?

And yes - 7th son revealed the issues, but WUR is the bigger problem here. When he has counter strike it seems to proc 90% plus and he steals beneficial effects nearly every time even with accuracy down. But most annoying is when his passive is blocked but he still takes damage or his team takes no damage at all. In a few matches I hit the enemy when his passive was blocked with what should have completely wiped out the entire team and not one team member was even touched. As if the whole team had invincibility. I was furious, as I had just pissed away 6 power and not made a dent and then watched the enemy take me out.

[Yup]

I was wondering where that health boost to my team was coming from... makes sense that it's WUR healing the wrong side :)

[Ezz]

Another HUGE one I forgot - why don’t most reflect shields work against the defenses? There is no point even using thorn or void shields on offense anymore they reflect no damage and don’t remove effects or apply debuffs. Ridiculous.

[Yup]

Certain shields only work on certain types of damage. Thorn shields works on physical damage, Cyclone shield works on magic, Void Shield works on physical and magic damage. None of these work on true damage. Only the True Shield works on true damage. Many teams in PvP use true damage characters, thus thorn, cyclone, and void aren't going to do a lot.

[slauki]

Certain shields only work on certain types of damage. Thorn shields works on physical damage, Cyclone shield works on magic, Void Shield works on physical and magic damage. None of these work on true damage. Only the True Shield works on true damage. Many teams in PvP use true damage characters, thus thorn, cyclone, and void aren't going to do a lot.

nope thorns and cyclones should work on true damage too. thorn should reflect all but magic damage and cyclone all but physical damage. haven't used them for a while so cannot tell more about them.
but most chars have immunity so i don't think they are very reliable anymore.

[JJJ428]

I thought thorn and cyclone do trigger on true damage. Back when we had the super omega thorn shield meta that was the issue it would reflect true and physical many times over. While they scaled down the amount reflected I believe those two still trigger on true damage.

Also I did some limited testing with WUR and something seems off with his healing. I was getting at least 33% healing when attack description says it should only be 15%. Hopefully Sparton and the devs see this and can possibly look into it. I know I have to do some more testing to be sure and will be watching other teams that use WUR now to verify.

[Yup]

Okay.. I knew it was something like that.

I think they seem to be working as expected, it's just gotten so you have to expect the need to remove buffs.. shields are all blue buffs easily removed. Now.... if there were say... a yellow buff damage shield (Ghost doesn't count).. well....... players would be outraged :)

[slauki]

I thought thorn and cyclone do trigger on true damage. Back when we had the super omega thorn shield meta that was the issue it would reflect true and physical many times over. While they scaled down the amount reflected I believe those two still trigger on true damage.

Also I did some limited testing with WUR and something seems off with his healing. I was getting at least 33% healing when attack description says it should only be 15%. Hopefully Sparton and the devs see this and can possibly look into it. I know I have to do some more testing to be sure and will be watching other teams that use WUR now to verify.

just a guess: maybe accuracy up raises this... or some attacking buff that increases scaling? or just another bug...haven't seen this so far only after VHEs fury i think...

[Ezz]

Test voids for yourself. Playing against WUR, gcotd, VHE etc. they were all crushing me with hits and no damage was reflecting and no effects were being removed. Yet when the defense procs voids if you even look at them the wrong way every beneficial effect you have disappears.

[Askora]

My experience with thorn in arena is that they seem to have been tuned to trigger on a perfect hit, and then only if that hit exceeds some threshold. That's at least my theory as to why they work for the defense far better than for the offense. It also seems to help when you're on offense and have no option but to attack against a thorn shield. Purposely not getting that perfect hit results in less permadeath. Downside is I do use explosive talismans and the burn damage from those can often trigger the permadeath effect against my team.

[Kamuz24z]

7th Son is great
Now everyone knows how to counter VHE eventually is going to be the same with 7th S lost like 3 matches against him and he’s every where don’t know if is ok to reveal my team I don’t want to destroy 7th S hold rate, I won’t avoid those teams that’s where the most fun is at the moment I was not lucky to get him so I can’t tell how good the hold rate is but I guess is not that amazing \m/

[Yup]

Void shield reduce physical and magic damage and return as true damage to each attacker at end of their turn. Estimated at 20%. True damage is not affected by this shield. And it randomly apply to ally or allies.

Void won't reflect damage from some of VHE attacks, the GCotD attacks.... etc. They hit with True damage, Void is worthless against true damage.

[Dank Brew]

Yet when the defense procs voids if you even look at them the wrong way every beneficial effect you have disappears.

I laughed out loud at this.

[Ezz]

Another one - WUR taking extra turns with no echo. Also this is not counter attack.
Example just happened - I completed my attacks - the enemy VHE attacked, next WUR attacked. Then immediately after he did his power move for his shield. Dude is on steroids or something lately.

[Amarthir]

The way I see it is that SSE was specifically designed to be THE counter to the current meta. If we nerf him then there wouldn't really be a counter anymore. Granted, all of his attacks are pretty great though. I 100% agree to the GCotD needing a fix though. And all the bugs that mess up the moves that SHOULD counter SSE really do need attention. I'd say that we focus on getting those out of the way before we make a decision to nerf him. If he's still broken after the bugs are fixed, then I'm open to changes.

By the way, if you step out of PvP, his abilities would be great for the upcoming game modes.

[T-Man]

Toons with perfect immunity getting stunned as well.

[Yup]

You can put Echo on WUR.. giving him multiple turns.

[Sponholz]

Sometimes when a new good Eddie comes out, we forget to look to the other parts of the patch notes, I'm having a really good rate of success against teams with 7th.

There is another Eddie that got some changes and buffs in the latest patch, tip: he only costs 18 Shards to max, but you can surely test him out without any shards.

He is proving to be very versatile against 7th teams.

He needs a few matches to figure out the best way to approach those teams tho, not hard but also not easy to learn the match.

Please note that I am not talking about the bugs, I think that this latest patch fixed more things then the previous ones. Or at least the bugs seen to happen less often to me.

Anyway, if I recall correctly, I am sitting at a 95+% rate on attack. With about 100 matches so far. Not skipping any team.

As aways... Cheers! Ed.

[Ezz]

You can put Echo on WUR.. giving him multiple turns.

He does not have echo, this is my own WUR I was testing. No echo and not counter. Simply 2 turns in a row. And no my toons were not stunned or frozen either.

The more I test the more it just seems WUR is acting up. Devs need to take a look at him, he is messing things up.

[Amarthir]

There is another Eddie that got some changes and buffs in the latest patch, tip: he only costs 18 Shards to max, but you can surely test him out without any shards.

He is proving to be very versatile against 7th teams.



He works great when paired with the Corrupt General.

[Ezz]

Don’t get me wrong guys 7th Son is a cool Eddie, I hope to have one soon. I’m not calling for a nerf - but some suttle tweaks to other characters, especially tweaks to allow them to work as intended would do a great deal to help keep his heavily stacked arsenal in check.

I also like The other “18 shard” Eddie- been experimenting since the boost and he is fun. But just the same he does not excuse things like prisoner or warlord passives not working properly, or WUR having roid rages.

[Sponholz]

@Ezz, I see your point.

And I agree, I too don't have 7th yet, maybe someday he will appear behind those red eyes... But I also don't think he needs a nerf, the other toons need to be tuned a little.

I checked and Both Mystic and SoL Eddie needs just 18 Shards to be maxed lol, ok, another tip: he needs some evolution stones also... And he is proving to me to be the best Eddie against 7th teams.

@Amarthir, def gonna try him paired with CG, haven't so far, but definitely sounds interesting.

Cheers! Ed.

[Amarthir]

Of all times to get an apma3 error today I finally got the first one and it was in my first fight with SSE, Gunner CotD, Val, and Corrupt General. Strange because when I usually get an apma3 error, it'll go away and I'm returned to the arena menu. This time I spent a good 5 minutes waiting and the error just kept popping up. Guess the server didn't want to admit to this being a good strat.

At least now I can verify this Eddie as a good counter against SSE, even while unsharded. I just wish I had some Predator Talismans.

[MoonShadow]

After meeting some teams with SSE in the Arena, I think that he is indeed a strong Eddie, a good contender to VHE, a much needed breath of fresh air; I like that.

What I don't like, is the fact that, paired with some other chars, he can be a real PITA. Last night, I think it took me almost 15 minutes to win against one specific team, maybe the longest fights I've had in the Arena, I thought at some point that the matce will never end (I'm glad that they've removed the auto-draw feature after 20 rounds:))

But, in the current meta of the Arena, when every single match duration counts at the end (I've dropped in just a minute, at the last reset, from the 48th place to 52th place, as I didn't have the time to finish another fight), it would be a complete horror scenario with a list full of SSE's to go against!! Imagine that.

[Yup]

Auto-draw is still there... I hit it a couple days ago.

[Liebhild]

Test voids for yourself. Playing against WUR, gcotd, VHE etc. they were all crushing me with hits and no damage was reflecting and no effects were being removed. Yet when the defense procs voids if you even look at them the wrong way every beneficial effect you have disappears.

That is, what I have written several times, they add some strange bonus to defense (btw they never answered why and how high this bonus is).

Same thing you will see with counter, your attacks get countered every time and if you use counter also your toons will simply look stupid to the sky when attacked.

Or take Astra, on defense she will remove all effects while your own Astra hardly manages to remove one effect.

[MoonShadow]

Auto-draw is still there... I hit it a couple days ago.Hmm, not sure what to say then. I know I was asked, after some rounds, if I would like to continue the game or end it as a draw, I clicked continue and played a lot of time, after. I wonder why the game didn't end with an auto-draw after 20(?) rounds, as I remember it was at the beginning of the Arena.

[Peppoah]

That is, what I have written several times, they add some strange bonus to defense (btw they never answered why and how high this bonus is).

Same thing you will see with counter, your attacks get countered every time and if you use counter also your toons will simply look stupid to the sky when attacked.

Or take Astra, on defense she will remove all effects while your own Astra hardly manages to remove one effect.

And you can add echos extra turns. When I use them, I never get extra turns while my opponent gets them.

[Ezz]

Hmm, not sure what to say then. I know I was asked, after some rounds, if I would like to continue the game or end it as a draw, I clicked continue and played a lot of time, after. I wonder why the game didn't end with an auto-draw after 20(?) rounds, as I remember it was at the beginning of the Arena.

Yeah I still see the auto draw alert sometimes. Yesterday I saw a new one, it put me on the clock. I got a call during a match on my phone and took it. When I hung up it said my match would end in 3 minutes! I had to hustle to win - and of course I had to deal with WUR having one of his counter attack auto heal reflect shield fits. Barely got the win as it took forever.

[Caretaker]

He does not have echo, this is my own WUR I was testing. No echo and not counter. Simply 2 turns in a row. And no my toons were not stunned or frozen either.

The more I test the more it just seems WUR is acting up. Devs need to take a look at him, he is messing things up.

Hmh..it's an old story now with strikes delay. It happens that toon gets counter but it doesn't and simply waits for its turn and then hits twice. I've noticed that on my WUR. But when you say there were no strikes, that strikes me as odd..

On the other hand my account is having issues since December update and on random occasions I'm able to play normally but most of the time after only one or two rounds my device/account refuses to communicate with server, resulting with mentioned endless apma3 in arena, pvte1 in story worlds, spinning wheel of death etc etc.. can't test a thing, and I apologize to my troopers untill this issue is resolved.

[MoonShadow]

Yeah I still see the auto draw alert sometimes. Yesterday I saw a new one, it put me on the clock. I got a call during a match on my phone and took it. When I hung up it said my match would end in 3 minutes! I had to hustle to win - and of course I had to deal with WUR having one of his counter attack auto heal reflect shield fits. Barely got the win as it took forever.That's strange, I didn't saw that 3 minutes warning for a long time and I thought it was also removed from the game. I've been looking for a "PvP rules" thread in the forums, but I couldn't find anything, altough I remember that there was such a thread?! damn, I'm too old in this game... :)

[Amarthir]

I had no idea there was a time limit.