Defense Wins and First Strike in PVP

[Stormseye]

First, I have only started replaying the game last November but it seems that Defense wins should be rewarded with maybe 1 or 2 coins since some players run different attack builds from their defense builds. Otherwise Defense wins/losses really on affect rankings.

Second, if you have a rematch with someone because you lost then it should always switch between the two as to who goes first.

Example

First Attack Match - I went first but lost the match
Second Attack Match against same player - I would go second automatically

Builds needs to be able to defend as readily as they are to attack. Especially since Defense wins/losses affect your ranking, but if the RNG always falls in favor of a team built to first round kill then they can win multiple times and even remove your chance to overcome. I know I have lost 2-3 in a row trying to attack the same player, because I kept going second and was 1 rounded.

This would only apply to attacking the same player if you attack a new player then it should remain RNG.

It may have been discussed before but just my recent observations as a return player.

[Ironstyle]

Second, if you have a rematch with someone because you lost then it should always switch between the two as to who goes first.

Example

First Attack Match - I went first but lost the match
Second Attack Match against same player - I would go second automatically



Yes! This! Exactly this! I've felt this way for a while now, and due to going second about 90% of the time has made me play PvP much less than I otherwise would. It's annoying when I know I can beat a team, but after attacking 8 times and going second each time (not an exaggeration. This happens a lot), they wipe the floor with me. Then finally when I get to go first, it's an easy win. I'm all for the rng when attacking, but during a revenge, it'd be nice if it worked like the above example.

[Yup]

I don't disagree with this .. but PvP is such a random dice roll regardless of who hits first, I don't think it really matters. If you think you're actually strategizing, you're wrong. The AI is determining the winner almost every match by giving a boost to the defense team or not.

[R1ck]

IMO there's strategy in the game, you have to think on a team to win regardless of who goes first. My losses are not determinated by the AI, they happened because didn't choose the right toons and play bad my cards. If my wins were determinated by the AI I would win with any team to any body at any time, off course that will never happen.

[Stormseye]

If you think you're actually strategizing, you're wrong. The AI is determining the winner almost every match by giving a boost to the defense team or not.

if the Ai is already determining the outcome then why even button hit. Just hit auto and let it work. if that is what you are meaning in the above?

I feel that the AI can and has made dumb moves many times over and I have been able to snatch victory from defeat many times by my choice of ally/eddie skill use or by the Ai defender missing a chance to revive or kill a weak ally of mine. I look at the current meta builds in my list and I chose my attackers accordingly. Mainly I see Claira/Undead Corrupt Gunner/Warrior Undead Rescuer in most builds with a smattering of variances. Notably Alliance Generals have been more frequent so my 3 groups are designed to dismantle those builds. I am sure the AI can weight some of its movements and successes but overall I feel that players can win or lose based on their choices as much as the luck of the skill firing properly.

[Yup]

Okay.. you've all been fooled. :)

You can be a hamster on a wheel... all you want. :)

It's not strategy to get specific characters.. grind to power them up and use them. Everyone has access to the SAME characters. So two teams with identical characters and identical talismans SHOULD ALWAYS end in a draw shouldn't they? Or nearly always. But they don't.. why is that? Because the AI is providing a boost at times. At the very least the human controlled team should ALWAYS win.. but again.. it doesn't, why? Due to the AI boost.

The reality is, there's JUST ENOUGH human interaction to make you THINK you have some control, but you really don't.

[JJJ428]

Lately with what I seen in the arena I am really starting to agree with Yup. The probability of some of the things I see occur just seems too impossible for things to be as they seem. I wish I was better at stats and probability and I could really map it out. But have gone against teams where no matter what I would have done the probabilities were just not going to fall my way. I needed to take one effect off of a blocker and after two rounds using Clair and visions Eddie it just wasn’t happening. They had no other benefital effects so the odds of 4 attacks not taking the one effect seems astronomical.

[Yup]

Exactly JJJ... Lose a battle to a CLEARLY inferior team merely because after 5 hits, you just can't clear that ONE blue buff when it should have been cleared after 1, maybe 2 hits.. Or because the echo on the defense team suddenly fires 6 turns in a row for 2 characters.... when the best the attack team ever sees is 3 turns and that's only IF echo even fires at all (which it rarely does)... or their VHE ALWAYS gets the extra turn.. while yours seemingly NEVER does. Or Fate talismans on the DEF GCotD ALWAYS starts with Ascension, and keeps it for 2 turns before switching to Immortality... while yours always starts with Immunity.

I'd track it and work out stats but what's the point? It's not going to change. It has enough users fooled that it's working.

[Reeb99]

I like the sound of that. There's a few teams I can beat easily if I go first, but rarely win when I go second.

[Stormseye]

Why you make me cry Yup? why why why? VHE hit me for 26k opening round, with Ascension and then went again....I did not win.

[Amarthir]

It's hard to agree or disagree because I don't spend as much time in the higher ranking by choice, I have another mobile game I play and the best way for me to balance is to give it more attention unless there's a fantastic event going on here. My attack and defense team is built to counter as many possibilities as it can so I can win 99/100 in my respective position. Granted I do still lose occasionally but I don't fret over it very much, it's fun because with the gradually shifting meta I get to see more creative and interesting teams.

Remember back when it was VHE, SSD, Wrath and red rescuer? Then the Valkyries came, thorn Talismans happened, annoying glitches broke alot of teams, but slowly they began to balance things by buffing other characters instead of nerfing them. Now, with there being many more options, they're alot more free to build one crazy toon, and then buff another one to counter it so that it's not broken.

I kind of went off the topic there but if you look at now compared to then it's certainly gotten better.

[Reeb99]

It's hard to agree or disagree because I don't spend as much time in the higher ranking by choice, I have another mobile game I play and the best way for me to balance is to give it more attention unless there's a fantastic event going on here. My attack and defense team is built to counter as many possibilities as it can so I can win 99/100 in my respective position. Granted I do still lose occasionally but I don't fret over it very much, it's fun because with the gradually shifting meta I get to see more creative and interesting teams.

Remember back when it was VHE, SSD, Wrath and red rescuer? Then the Valkyries came, thorn Talismans happened, annoying glitches broke alot of teams, but slowly they began to balance things by buffing other characters instead of nerfing them. Now, with there being many more options, they're alot more free to build one crazy toon, and then buff another one to counter it so that it's not broken.

I kind of went off the topic there but if you look at now compared to then it's certainly gotten better.

Yeah, I remember before pvp was even out of beta they kept nerfing all of the good characters. I quit and come back a year later, and I notice a ton of new characters that make most of the characters that got nerfed look hilariously underpowered pre-nerf. Meanwhile a bunch of those nerfed characters are still pathetic comparatively, but not quite as bad. All they really did was waste a bunch of time nerfing the characters people liked, and shift the focus over to characters that they designed.

*shrug* at least they are aren't nerfing the great characters into oblivion anymore. They should have NEVER allowed the players to have yellow buffs, but it's too late now. The cat is out of the bag and we are never going back.