Relics - what you get

[Mariner-1212]

Relic information isn't posted before purchase, so this thread is used to show you what you get for what you spend.

Global Health:
Level 1 @ 175 IC: +10%
Level 2 @ 350 IC: +19%
Level 3 @ 525 IC: +27%
Level 4 @ 700 IC:
Level 5 @ 875 IC: +40%
Level 6 @ 1050 IC: +???


Global Attack:
Level 1 @ 195 IC: +2%

Global Magic:
Level 1 @ 195 IC: +2%

Global Special:
Level 1 @ 75 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 150 IC: +7%
Level 3 @ 225 IC: +9%
Level 4 @ 300 IC: +11%
Level 5 @ 425 IC: +???



Sentinel:
Relic of Health
Level 1 @ 175 IC: +12%
Level 2 @ 350 IC: +22%


Assassin:
Relic of Attack
Level 1 @ 180 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 405 IC: +10%
Level 3 @ 630 IC: +18%


Relic of Magic
Level 1 @ 180 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 405 IC: +10%
Level 3 @ 630 IC: +18%

[Rayn13]

Where are you buying relics? They are not available in my store.

[RobG-9641]

“Global Stat Increase” a character with no talismans. Stats not increased. Relics are a scam or don’t work.

[edsel]

+875 iron coins to get to lvl 5/10 +40% health
+1050 ic to get to lvl 6/10 for a few more % this shit is getting expensive

in a few weeks/month the heavy arena iron coin accumulators are going to create monster teams with these additions.

[reaverfx24]

How do you increase the level on relics though?

[ian16]

Hi bros , i received this message in lotb fb page ; if someone like me do not understand yet how the relics works



Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast Hi Ian. The stats will be applied during battle. The reason they are only displayed in the Relics menu, and not showing in the character info in the My Team screen is A.) Because that would create some confusion around what the max stats of characters are and B.) because there would be no consistent communication for what Relics are applied in a given game mode.

Please note that when you are in battle, you can hold down on your character to see exactly which Relics are active. We are looking at updating the character info modal that appears in battle further, to show what your *total* stats are in the specific battle that you in.

Hope that helps!

[2Fast4Love]

What he said...i bought the gunner attack relic

[Mariner-1212]

How do you increase the level on relics though?

There are 10 levels each, as you buy it is replaced with the next level at the higher cost

[Fudjo]

Is this the new "use all of your troopers faster" feature? Loot grinding sure looks like it's gonna be a breeze now.

[GotN]

Thanks Mariner for providing those infos. Very helpful.
Bought the global attack relic first of all.

[slauki]

awesome work buddy, will help as much as i can, but i have to think a little harder, before burning everything :)

[Bradata]

Got almost all relics and updated some to 2-3 level but I still can't figure out how they work. My defense still gets it's ass kicked and my offense isn't getting any stronger :p
I think, once we all have them leveled up it's gonna be the same BS. I see the relics being helpful in PVE and other worlds though.

[slauki]

Got almost all relics and updated some to 2-3 level but I still can't figure out how they work. My defense still gets it's ass kicked and my offense isn't getting any stronger :p
I think, once we all have them leveled up it's gonna be the same BS. I see the relics being helpful in PVE and other worlds though.

oh man trust me, your def was much harder than usual, i almost got screwed, didn't expect it to be that much stronger...guess we have to figure things out again.
otoh fighting noobs is even more a walk in the park now...the new players will have a hard time to catch up. i fear this might scare many away. for us hardcore addicts it's a great motivational system...

[Kaz_LOTB]

my offense isn't getting any stronger :p

Keep in mind that relics only modify the BASE stats of your characters. Talisman stats are not taken into consideration (outside of stat talisman set effect bonuses, because those ALSO scale off your base stats). This means you will see the most meaningful increases in characters that have a higher default base stat. Incidentally, it also means that those good ol' Stat Talismans (such as Strength, Holy, Health, Ivory, Boost, etc.) are massively buffed by Relics.

-Kaz

[Fudjo]

Incidentally, it also means that those good ol' Stat Talismans (such as Strength, Holy, Health, Ivory, Boost, etc.) are massively buffed by Relics.

-Kaz

I like it! Keeps the Stat Talismans relevant and helps the new players a bit.

[Sponholz]

So.... after a quick math thinking here is the formula.

Initial cost x 55 = total cost of the desired relic (edit: inaccurate, plz see bellow).

WELCOME TO GAP LAND OF P2W WITH NO LIFE everybody!!!

How did I come to that conclusion?
Well there are 10 lvls, each one costing the previous price + initial price, so 10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 55. (This is inaccurate, please use the bellow formula).

Ok, here we go:
level 2 cost - initial cost = value of the increment variable.
Value of incremental variable * 45 + Initial cost *10 = Total cost of the Relic.
Taking Assassin Attack Relic for example:
Initial cost = 180
Level 2 cost = 405
405 - 180 = 225 (this is the number we want).
225 * 45 (this a constant, will always be this value) = 10125 (now all you have to do is add the initial value * 10).
10125 + 180 * 10 (total of levels needed) = 11925 (this is the total cost of this relic maxed).

Formula = [(Level 2 cost - Level 1 cost) * 45] + (Level 1 cost * 10) = Cost of the Relic maxed.

Here are the values for each relic and the TOTAL Iron Coins needed to max.

Take the bellow values as an ESTIMATE ONLY!!! My guess is that the TOTAL value is even higher considering some relics differ price based on the % they increase (my bad for not paying attention to all the values on the first post by Mariner-1212)

I will be fixing the values as more info appears.


Global
------
Health: 9625
Attack: 10725
Magic: 10725
Defense: 5500
Resistance: 5500
Fury: 4125

Total: 46200


Warrior
------
Health: 6215
Attack: 5775
Magic: 4125
Defense: 4125
Resistance: 4125
Fury: 3080

Total: 28165


Magus
------
Health: 6215
Attack: 4125
Magic: 5775
Defense: 4125
Resistance: 4125
Fury: 3080

Total: 28165


Sentinel
--------
Health: 9625
Attack: 4125
Magic: 4125
Defense: 6600
Resistance: 6600
Fury: 3080

Total: 34155


Gunner
-------
Health: 5500
Attack: 5775
Magic: 5775
Defense: 4125
Resistance: 4125
Fury: 12375

Total: 37675


Assassin
--------
Health: 6215
Attack: 11925 (Fixed, estimated was 9900)
Magic: 11925 (Fixed, estimated was 9900)
Defense: 3850
Resistance: 3850
Fury: 3080

Total: 40845 (New est. value, previous was 36795)


Estimated GRAND TOTAL (Everything maxed): 215205 (New est. value, previous was 211155) Iron Coins.


LOL seriously???!!! WTF!!!!!! Lifetime value right here!!!!

That's ~21500+ WINS on the Arena... Most really active players play like what? 150 matches/week? with the 53 Troopers/day and the usual 1200 Iron Coins for Eternal Fragments/Skills Shards each week, not even counting with Arena Talismans that most still have to finish some sets...

And we were asking for less grind... oh dear, dear, poor of us...

F@#* the Cheers, Ed. (This is not directed to anyone, I am honestly not cheering anymore here, this game for now has received a terrible update regarding grinding.)

Still like all the NF guys here, Leviathan, Kaz and Sparton. (This is not a "I hate you all" reply, I am in all honesty sad with this implementation, Gauntlet will just be another word to even more grind, so don't get me wrong, this [sadly] is not a step forward to the game.)

[Kaz_LOTB]

Well, not quite. Each relic's price has a completely different multiplier based on the estimated value of the stat for the given class. They don't all scale based on the initial price. Some will be higher and some will be lower.

Also keep in mind that with the Gauntlet coming out, there will be an additional source of Iron Coins.

-Kaz

[Sponholz]

Well, not quite. Each relic's price has a completely different multiplier based on the estimated value of the stat for the given class. They don't all scale based on the initial price. Some will be higher and some will be lower.

Also keep in mind that with the Gauntlet coming out, there will be an additional source of Iron Coins.

-Kaz

Taking the first post into consideration I fear that the total amount of Iron Coins needed will be somewhat even higher than my estimation.

I have only just done a quick math based on some values, I saw now that, for ex: Assassin Attack has a higher increment them the initial price.

How about, just give us a table with all the costs for all the Relics?

Not Cheering anymore, sorry guys, Ed.

EDIT: Edited above reply telling that the values there as estimated costs.

[RobG-9641]

I’m bad with math. Not seeing complete stat totals is very frustrating. The “behind the scenes” percentage increase to stats is incomprehensible to me. Will have to take the developers word that it works. Arena shop prices are ridiculously high between Relics & talismans. Prices should be half. Not a fan of the Relics right now.

[Sponholz]

I will be fixing my reply with the correct values, as soon as they appear.

... Ed.

[Nicko]

Also keep in mind that with the Gauntlet coming out, there will be an additional source of Iron Coins.

-Kaz

That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day ;)

[zamasu]

That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day ;)

Lol agree.

Thebiines whonplay all day will dominate Arena now.

[Bradata]

That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day ;)

Wow, he is alive! And right on the spot again! I agree, not all of us are Gmac or Jofer with so many wins under their belts! Saw the math Spon did... 200 000 IC + oh boy!

[Bradata]

oh man trust me, your def was much harder than usual, i almost got screwed, didn't expect it to be that much stronger...guess we have to figure things out again.
otoh fighting noobs is even more a walk in the park now...the new players will have a hard time to catch up. i fear this might scare many away. for us hardcore addicts it's a great motivational system...

You're right about creating bigger gap between the old players and the new ones. After a short time though older players will have most of the relics leveled up and we all be back to square one. :p

[Amarthir]

You're right about creating bigger gap between the old players and the new ones. After a short time though older players will have most of the relics leveled up and we all be back to square one. :p

Basically how I feel, they'll make PvP really wacky for a while until everyone has a few high level relics under their belt. However things like Brave New World, Gauntlet and Night City would be easier to run with these relics.

Speaking of Night City, is it just me or were those lights in the night city preview always turned on?

[MoonShadow]

That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day ;)LoL!! Exactly!! This & long lasting batteries for the phone/tablet (when not using & abusing an emulator at work).

[RobG-9641]

Iron Coins need to become a common reward outside Arena. They should be rewards from daily log in, skull quests, sacrifice etc. They should drop randomly like gold and ironite do. 100 “free” iron coins a week it would take 2 months to buy 1 talisman. Grinding in Arena and/or Gauntlet still takes hours which not all players have. So additional ways to get Iron Coins regularly would be appreciated by all players.

[Yup]

Iron Coins need to become a common reward outside Arena.

Absolutely agree to a point..... Prices for the relics are really within reason though. Once you have all the eternals and have most things full of skill shards, the relics are a good place to throw iron coins and not feel like you're just wasting them.

I would like to see some other method of achieving iron coins besides merely the arena though. Something like also in Skull Quests or Sat15.. or with a vortex fill... or just raise the rewards a bit for the arena fights.

[Sponholz]

Keep in mind that relics only modify the BASE stats of your characters. Talisman stats are not taken into consideration (outside of stat talisman set effect bonuses, because those ALSO scale off your base stats). This means you will see the most meaningful increases in characters that have a higher default base stat. Incidentally, it also means that those good ol' Stat Talismans (such as Strength, Holy, Health, Ivory, Boost, etc.) are massively buffed by Relics.

-Kaz

So this basically means that average players that sometimes can have a chance on the Arena against most teams, will be owned even more against the teams with relics? since the talis will be "massively buffed" for those with Relics, raising the GAP even more.

Man each time I think about the Relics system, I have even more sure they are a gap system, designed to make players spend lots of refills to grind then out.



I honestly can't imagine that some of you are liking this?! maybe because you have a ton of IC hoarded so you can (like Bradata) buy then all (and lvl a few after).

Sorry mate, I play this game much more then I should, and I still have a LOT of chars to shard/tali up. And now, Relics comes around.

This will be the nail on the coffin of serious PvP for a LOT of players.

All I can say to the hoarders, Have fun alone at the top, I can assure you the Arena will be less challenging and boring in no time. (Unless you have fun on only fighting the same 5~10 players every single time, cause I don't think there will be that many players outside Slauki, Bradata, and a few others willing to spend the time to grind this out in the long-term, they will quit once they realize that they can't compete with some regarding play time).

Even as my replies are a little salty, they are not rant replies, I'm just saying this is bad for the game atm. Unless the "other forms of getting IC" are really worth it.

... Ed.

[Sponholz]

Wait, what? another update to the game?

Oh, I get it... New cosmetic item added to the Relic store already???!!! (nice Hoodie you got there).

4373

Sorry, couldn't resist.

... Ed.

[hold]

So this basically means that average players that sometimes can have a chance on the Arena against most teams, will be owned even more against the teams with relics? since the talis will be "massively buffed" for those with Relics, raising the GAP even more.

Man each time I think about the Relics system, I have even more sure they are a gap system, designed to make players spend lots of refills to grind then out.



I honestly can't imagine that some of you are liking this?! maybe because you have a ton of IC hoarded so you can (like Bradata) buy then all (and lvl a few after).

Sorry mate, I play this game much more then I should, and I still have a LOT of chars to shard/tali up. And now, Relics comes around.

This will be the nail on the coffin of serious PvP for a LOT of players.

All I can say to the hoarders, Have fun alone at the top, I can assure you the Arena will be less challenging and boring in no time. (Unless you have fun on only fighting the same 5~10 players every single time, cause I don't think there will be that many players outside Slauki, Bradata, and a few others willing to spend the time to grind this out in the long-term, they will quit once they realize that they can't compete with some regarding play time).

Even as my replies are a little salty, they are not rant replies, I'm just saying this is bad for the game atm. Unless the "other forms of getting IC" are really worth it.

... Ed.

It's also a diversion from releasing real new content.

"Hmmm ... what to do to keep the plebs busy? I got it ... overprized new shit that buffs some stuff ... and don't forget those chars we haven't got in green/blue/red/purple/yellow yet ... make an event to get them that drains a lot of ironite and tell the idiots double chance! YES double - 0.5% or 1% doesn't matter - the suckers still won't get anything out of it"

[slauki]

sponholz, thanks for your clear words, i agree on the pvp aspect. relicts are a great longterm motivation for hopefully challenging pve elements. the problem is we don't have those right now.
i really like them overall, they are just extremly bad for pvp. arena should stay competitive for EVERY player not only for the top 25 guys. i had 30k coins, and well this will give me a huge advantage over 95% of all players. since i'm a longterm player who has enough chars, talis and skillshards i really don't need another advantage vs those poor guys. i'm almost ashamed fighting vs those who have no relicts, this feels like cheating.

and soon we sould get a lot of new players because of the tour start, and for them pvp will be a source of endless frustration i fear..and who is so dumb to try to grind this out??? it's impossible if you are not playing from day one.

so overall i like the longterm goal and i'm okay with waiting a few months to max em all, but this crap has to stay out of the arena imo...

and man i love your new signature :D

i already called 666-NOLIFE but the prices are still a bit high for me :p

[Sponholz]

... Slauki's reply ...

so overall i like the longterm goal and i'm okay with waiting a few months to max em all, but this crap has to stay out of the arena imo...

and man i love your new signature :D

i already called 666-NOLIFE but the prices are still a bit high for me :p


LOL man, that made my day, honestly! (Thanks for that. glad you liked my sig :p, And I called then too, but I was too broke that even my call got dismissed... :cool:).

And please don't get me wrong, I have never (not that I can remember honestly) talked about Relics outside the Arena, they are an AMAZING addition to the game for PvE purposes. Yes it could take long to farm ICs for then, but the PvE difficulty will be the same, once you get the relics you need, could take a week for some, a month for others, the PvE difficulty would still be the same, and you will the able to feel the GAP getting closer each time you buy/lvl a Relic.


... Ed.

[Kaz_LOTB]

That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day ;)

There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have.

In terms of creating a gap, that is true. What will happen is people who are sitting on a bunch of ic and want to buy all the relics will get an immediate benefit for their resources. This does mean however, they are much more likely to face off against other players doing the same and less likely to come across weaker targets as the divisions will naturally stratify overtime based on who is actively playing the Arena and buying relics and who is not. In the end, the result should be that you'll basically will be facing off against other people at your level so casually engaged arena users will have a lower chance of meeting up with the top tier players over time and those who have relics will be evenly matched.

This does make the top end of the arena more competitive and in order to make that effort worth it, we have some updates coming to the Arena rewards that should hopefully make it very appealing to place in the top divisions. Also as already mentioned, relics apply to more than just PvP. Many players will now have a means to advance their PvE teams elsewhere in the game to make the tackling of challenging content more manageable.

Finally, what Relics allows us to do, which isn't immediately evident, is add new worlds and content to the game that can be appropriately challenging for early, mid-tier, and late game players. With the current stat ceiling, we don't have much room to grow, so Relics will allow us to create a better gradation of difficulty with upcoming content.

In any case, we'll keep an eye on how things go and certainly adjust any values or prices as needed based on the data we're seeing and user feedback.

-Kaz

[Coletrain]

i really like them overall, they are just extremly bad for pvp. arena should stay competitive for EVERY player not only for the top 25 guys. i had 30k coins, and well this will give me a huge advantage over 95% of all players. since i'm a longterm player who has enough chars, talis and skillshards i really don't need another advantage vs those poor guys. i'm almost ashamed fighting vs those who have no relicts, this feels like cheating.

And then you have a longterm player like me with about 200 iron coins in the bank :cool:

I think there are a lot of features coming that will help once they are all rolled out. The problem is that they are all just puzzle pieces floating in the ether at this point, and putting the relics piece on the board first could swing the balance of the game (and specifically arena) towards long term hardcore players even more than it already is. This would be less of a problem if grinding for Iron Coins in the Arena was the main focus, however most people place their time/focus on making sure that their troopers get their badges. Grinding troopers and iron coins at the same time wouldn't be a problem if Gauntlet was released. Grinding troopers in general wouldn't be an issue if there was a way to simulate battles that you've already won. Now you start to see all of the puzzle pieces that need to fit together to make it work.

There seem to be a lot of great features incoming and I think it will all balance out in the end. It's nice that there will be a PvE way to get Iron Coins & I appreciate the dev team taking the time to get it right. Climbing in PvP just might be a bit frustrating for some until then...

[tex-0775]

There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have

This could once again give the select few beta-testers a huge advantage, i mean they will come out with a s***load of iron coins/relics and the rest of us will once again have to play catchup for a long time. Or are you changing things this time, so the reward for playing the beta is, .....playing the beta?

tex

[Sponholz]

There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have.

In terms of creating a gap, that is true. What will happen is people who are sitting on a bunch of ic and want to buy all the relics will get an immediate benefit for their resources. This does mean however, they are much more likely to face off against other players doing the same and less likely to come across weaker targets as the divisions will naturally stratify overtime based on who is actively playing the Arena and buying relics and who is not. In the end, the result should be that you'll basically will be facing off against other people at your level so casually engaged arena users will have a lower chance of meeting up with the top tier players over time and those who have relics will be evenly matched.

This does make the top end of the arena more competitive and in order to make that effort worth it, we have some updates coming to the Arena rewards that should hopefully make it very appealing to place in the top divisions. Also as already mentioned, relics apply to more than just PvP. Many players will now have a means to advance their PvE teams elsewhere in the game to make the tackling of challenging content more manageable.

Finally, what Relics allows us to do, which isn't immediately evident, is add new worlds and content to the game that can be appropriately challenging for early, mid-tier, and late game players. With the current stat ceiling, we don't have much room to grow, so Relics will allow us to create a better gradation of difficulty with upcoming content.

In any case, we'll keep an eye on how things go and certainly adjust any values or prices as needed based on the data we're seeing and user feedback.

-Kaz


Appreciate the time on replying Kaz.

I will try and be quick this time.

Arena as it is right now, the matchmaking is not optimized for relics yet, and I haven't heard any news regarding this.

Arena Events: You have to win, and 300 Wins is the basic goal if you want to have the main rewards the event has to offer (maybe 400 in some events). And WINS only, so pardon me for my question, but are you sure that to get 400 wins, I won't be matched with the hardcore players with a lot of IC invested on Relics?

In all honesty the PvP side-effect of the Relics, is a really, really long-term commitment if you want to catch-up to the top players. (I know Gauntlet is coming and all, but its still a lot of commitment).

Still taking Arena events as example, people will lose a lot of battles, cause once they start to raise on the rankings they will be faced against the Relic boosted teams, and will have to lose quite a few matches so they can be matched with the teams of the same level.

People will start to feel frustrated cause they will be losing the most precious resource of the world right now, TIME.

I don't want to make LotB another Job I have. And so far you at NF are doing NOTHING to alleviate the need of grind. (Not offending anyone here, but truth must be told).

Nothing about the odds on Souls,
Nothing about the Trooper grind,
Nothing about new Content (Relics are not new content, they are just another Arena Store item ATM).

And on top of the boring and exhaustive Trooper grind, you made Relics available on a manner that don't even involve Troopers, so all you did atm: "Relic up the Grind skill of the game. almost maxed lvl btw".

Of couse PvE wise Relics are a breath of fresh air. Really made me want to farm again, I just wish that this could be made at my own pace without the feeling of every second that pass I an getting behind, and behind others, PvP wise.




Finally, let me express this again. All I am talking here are concerns for the future of the game.




I have faith that in the end, when ALL new promised content are available, things will even out and you will be able to catch in terms of Relic level. but this will take a LONG time, taking NF's retrospective timeline on delivering new content. (Again just facts here, Trooper Eddie was featured in the launch trailer of the game, and look at the time that have passed for us to finally see him in the game).

... Ed.

[Nicko]

Wow, he is alive! And right on the spot again! I agree, not all of us are Gmac or Jofer with so many wins under their belts! Saw the math Spon did... 200 000 IC + oh boy!

Yeah - RL has been pretty demanding so I’ve been busy - and PvP doesn’t have the same draw after doing it for so long - but patiently waiting for Gauntlet:D

[Sparton_LOTB]

This could once again give the select few beta-testers a huge advantage, i mean they will come out with a s***load of iron coins/relics and the rest of us will once again have to play catchup for a long time. Or are you changing things this time, so the reward for playing the beta is, .....playing the beta?

The Gauntlet beta's rewards will not be non-existent, but they'll certainly be different in the beta compared to when the feature globally launches (or at least different when the beta first starts). Getting to the higher grades within the Gauntlet will be extremely challenging, as we definitely don't want to give beta players as huge advantage... but we also want it to be worth the time and effort so people try to push the limits of the feature in the beta! As such, we'll be finding a balance between being worth spending the time/Sands of War, and not giving a huge advantage to people part of the beta test.

[Yup]

Addition of relics just makes it all seem like hamsters on a wheel....

start making decent headway.. and BAM.. a huge advantage is provided to someone that has been playing for even a month longer. An advantage I'll need 4 times as long to even reach and by that time.. I still won't be caught up. Basically... the longer you play.. the more behind you'll always be. The only way to be ahead in this "game" is to have been playing from the launch.

The "game" has never seemed more pointless. I was collecting duplicate Eddies, had most of them... I've sacrificed them.. no Legendary souls.... I covert over 100 Light souls.. only see 2 Lilliths.. I'm constantly short of gold.. and when I do farm a level for days to get gold... I finally can level up talismans, but inevitably never have enough runes to do that.

There is FAR TOO MUCH in this "game" that "skirts" the satisfaction barrier. There are not enough rewards. DOUBLE the drop of rune stones in PVE.. DOUBLE the amount of iron coins in teh area.. QUADRUPLE the amount of gold dropped at some levels. I mean.. isn't the point to have fun? Why so stingy with everything? You aren't "slowing progress" you are "eliminating fulfillment".

Heres a thought.. how about NOT charging my credit card if you can't accept the payment???

4374

Hitting "RETRY" just means you deduct the same amount AGAIN from my credit card and I may or may not actually receive the item. Because when this error pops up it translates to "APPLE HAS CHARGED YOUR PAYMENT METHOD. BUT THE GAME ISN'T GOING TO ACTUALLY GIVE YOU ANYTHING." A more appropriate message would be "Your Purchase Failed. Please retain the receipt for the purchase. Note the date and time of purchase and then contact Support."

[tex-0775]

The Gauntlet beta's rewards will not be non-existent, but they'll certainly be different in the beta compared to when the feature globally launches (or at least different when the beta first starts). Getting to the higher grades within the Gauntlet will be extremely challenging, as we definitely don't want to give beta players as huge advantage... but we also want it to be worth the time and effort so people try to push the limits of the feature in the beta! As such, we'll be finding a balance between being worth spending the time/Sands of War, and not giving a huge advantage to people part of the beta test.

Thanks for the explanation and the quickness of it. Anyway, no matter what, it's something to look forward to \,,/

[Tim28213]

I agree with Spohholz.
I stay in the middle tier just because that is where I have time to play.
This week I ended up with a little extra time and for a few days I was playing in the top 50 and then top 100 and still falling back to my normal ranks as my week gets busier and the weekend comes. I was winning a good bit even in the top 50 which was pretty exciting and probably kept me playing more than I normally would. Sometimes it would take me 2-3 tries to beat a team, but I love the challenge of finally overcoming a good defense (even it it is only a lucky round LOL).
It is normal for me to creep into the higher ranks (500-250ish for me) on Thursday and Friday as I try to build up some cushion so I don't fall too far and lose my rewards due to not playing over the weekend much.

I hope i am wrong, but it seems that I won't be able to win much (at all?) once I gain a few ranks and start hitting the relic teams? I think it will really depend on where the breaks occur between those who have the coins to spend and those that don't. I wonder what rank that line will really begin to show?

I love the game. Hopefully I'll still feel like I'm middle-of-the-road competitive. LOL

[hold]

There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon

Quick translation for the newer players: "Could take up to 6-8 months"

It's not like players complained pretty much from start what a time sink this game is for basically next to no reward.

I'm not negative by the way - I am realistic based on what I have seen since July 2016. Also the devs never ever answered to drop rates and those days they seem to be lower then ever before.

I gladly repeat myself: Not one more cent ever again until things change or unless the drop rates / RNG stats are revealed.

Some people say: Well it's like gambling - that's true. But there are even laws for gambling at least in most countries. I wonder if Nodding Fraud is compliant to them? Any lawyers around that could explain more on this matter? Would be really interesting.

[Metallicamilo]

you miss the point where most players are Casual players... most people won't grind for more than 1 hour or two. they have lives, you know?

anyhow, another idea: just make a random battle section, where you play against a random team with all characters and buff them up. that's challenging and fun enough for casual players. and keep the 100 toppest players mode for gauntlet or whatever...

[slauki]

In terms of creating a gap, that is true. What will happen is people who are sitting on a bunch of ic and want to buy all the relics will get an immediate benefit for their resources. This does mean however, they are much more likely to face off against other players doing the same and less likely to come across weaker targets as the divisions will naturally stratify overtime based on who is actively playing the Arena and buying relics and who is not. In the end, the result should be that you'll basically will be facing off against other people at your level so casually engaged arena users will have a lower chance of meeting up with the top tier players over time and those who have relics will be evenly matched.

This does make the top end of the arena more competitive and in order to make that effort worth it, we have some updates coming to the Arena rewards that should hopefully make it very appealing to place in the top divisions. Also as already mentioned, relics apply to more than just PvP. Many players will now have a means to advance their PvE teams elsewhere in the game to make the tackling of challenging content more manageable.

-Kaz

thanks for the detailed answer kaz. looking forward to the new content, i'm sure it's an excellent addition in the longterm. but i think your statement above is not entirely accurate. yeah, we will match the people around us a lot. but how many guys are at the top of the arena and really have a real warchest of coins? 15 maybe or 25. i bet i can name the most of them exactly. but we are facing many more names when clearing lists. so we will be matched vs much weaker opponents 80% of the time, that's the logic of the machmaking for the top players.
so we have fistfull of guys who have a huge advantage over 98% of all other players, maybe even 99%. you basicly created a champions league for a few players while the rest is playing in the 2nd or 3rd division. that's why i dislike the relics in the arena. how about something like relic bonuses count only 50% in the arena, while they count 100% in the cosmos? this would sound more reasonable to me.

but i'm positive that we can turn this into a positive addition overall after a while, i just hope that not too many players will quit because ot this. once new content is there this step might be very good, but it would have been better to get this content out before of the relics. but i understand the logic behind this approach too.
let's see how things will turn out...

[Yup]

Like I've always posted.. this "game" ensures the top layers in the arena ALWAYS stay at the top. It's a FUTILE effort to attempt to climb the ranks. You have to be playing since day 1 or close to it. All Relics do is create a larger chasm. And it seem will give better rewards to the players ALREADY getting better rewards. It's a bullshit feature. Great off the cuff but really crappy when you think about it.

And to suggest relics are good or even needed in PVE is, frankly, laughable. they aren't needed. EVERY player that has EVER cleared Underworld madness did it WITHOUT relics. It's not like no one here achieved that. I constantly read about not increasing drop rates or rewards for fear of "speeding progression" through the "game".... now Relics are being touted as a way of "speeding progression"? So...... yeah.. suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Y'll need to be consistent on your marketing messages. The snake oil is slipping out.

Wait... let me turn around so you can blow more smoke.....

[Liebhild]

LotB has become a big snowball system. They release overpowered shit, that everyone is hunting, then the release much more overpowered shit to compensate the earlier overpowered shit.

Example:
Perfect immunity - with all the new toons that can remove this "perfect" buffs, we are, where we were b4.

This will continue, but like every snowball system it will crash with a mighty booom and it is over.

It is funny how some players still believe, what NF is saying, we are sorry, that wasn't intentionally - bullshit, they kow exactly, what they are doing.

NF has now reached a fraudlevel, were reporting them at apple simply isn't enough. Everyone has to earn money, but the way NF is doing it, is simply to steal the earned money of the players.

[BonFire]

I bought Assassin health relic. Working on getting defense for them too. So at least Wrath and Rainmaker can maybe live a little longer. Not gonna go beyong that unless I'm really bored though.

[Tim28213]

I had an unusual amount of free time this weekend and I ended up in the top 100 of the arena (barely). I was surprised to find that I could actually beat teams that had a ton of relics (I only have 2). It took forever when I came up against teams with multiple health talismans. I faced a good many teams with a high number of relics and won. Again it just took a lot longer. I'm sure my defense was getting put down pretty quickly by those teams, but I was happy to see that I could beat them eventually. Arena is already a time sink for me and it just got longer, but I can win still at least.

[Zerynx]

Addition of relics just makes it all seem like hamsters on a wheel....

start making decent headway.. and BAM.. a huge advantage is provided to someone that has been playing for even a month longer. An advantage I'll need 4 times as long to even reach and by that time.. I still won't be caught up. Basically... the longer you play.. the more behind you'll always be. The only way to be ahead in this "game" is to have been playing from the launch.

The "game" has never seemed more pointless. I was collecting duplicate Eddies, had most of them... I've sacrificed them.. no Legendary souls.... I covert over 100 Light souls.. only see 2 Lilliths.. I'm constantly short of gold.. and when I do farm a level for days to get gold... I finally can level up talismans, but inevitably never have enough runes to do that.

There is FAR TOO MUCH in this "game" that "skirts" the satisfaction barrier. There are not enough rewards. DOUBLE the drop of rune stones in PVE.. DOUBLE the amount of iron coins in teh area.. QUADRUPLE the amount of gold dropped at some levels. I mean.. isn't the point to have fun? Why so stingy with everything? You aren't "slowing progress" you are "eliminating fulfillment".

Heres a thought.. how about NOT charging my credit card if you can't accept the payment???

4374

Hitting "RETRY" just means you deduct the same amount AGAIN from my credit card and I may or may not actually receive the item. Because when this error pops up it translates to "APPLE HAS CHARGED YOUR PAYMENT METHOD. BUT THE GAME ISN'T GOING TO ACTUALLY GIVE YOU ANYTHING." A more appropriate message would be "Your Purchase Failed. Please retain the receipt for the purchase. Note the date and time of purchase and then contact Support."

I feel the exact same way Yup. Every thing here is what I've been thinking since i had to some time to look into the Relics yesterday.

It is seriously making me wonder about my future with this game, and that makes me sad.

[Bradata]

Relic information isn't posted before purchase, so this thread is used to show you what you get for what you spend.

Global Health:
Level 1 @ 175 IC: +10%
Level 2 @ 350 IC: +19%
Level 3 @ 525 IC: +27%
Level 4 @ 700 IC:
Level 5 @ 875 IC: +40%
Level 6 @ 1050 IC: +46


Global Attack:
Level 1 @ 195 IC: +2%
Level 5 +20%

Global Magic:
Level 1 @ 195 IC: +2%
Level 5 +20%

Global Special:
Level 1 @ 75 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 150 IC: +7%
Level 3 @ 225 IC: +9%
Level 4 @ 300 IC: +11%
Level 5 @ 425 IC: +???
Level 8 +18%


Sentinel:
Relic of Health
Level 1 @ 175 IC: +12%
Level 2 @ 350 IC: +22%
Level 5 +46%


Assassin:
Relic of Attack
Level 1 @ 180 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 405 IC: +10%
Level 3 @ 630 IC: +18%


Relic of Magic
Level 1 @ 180 IC: +4%
Level 2 @ 405 IC: +10%
Level 3 @ 630 IC: +18%

Entered some numbers here but it's really complicated for me to get you the $ and the previous %

[edsel]

4415

this shows a +80 health
this means level 10 from
level 5 that I have now is at 40% and bradata says 46% for level 6, the diminishing amount of percentage increase must have a final jump from level 9 to 10 in order to get 80%?

it costs more and more and gives less and less until the final purchase?

[edsel]

4418

+80% for other class relics and other stats not just health

[T-Man]

Global
Level 4 Health = +34%

[Mindkaiser]

I have to pitch in with the others complaining about the new relics feature. From my experience with online gaming, massive grinding was always the downfall of great games. I really enjoy the arena so far but, if I come to the conclusion that smart team-building and good battle strategies aren't enough to guarantee a fair amount of wins, I will have no choice than to stop playing. Sorry NF, very bad idea. I know it sounds crazy, but you should drop it for the game to survive.

[T-Man]

Now that we have the relics for a week, I think they should have capped purchasing them. And I hate limited purchases, but it would have kept the arena more balanced.

A limit of so many of each class, or maybe a total of something like 20 per week may have been a good idea. The battles are taking longer which I hate, and the Arena just feels off.

I had around 10,000 IC that I spent in relics last week, plus what I earned since then and the battles are still a pita. Not having fun in the arena right now, but I know I’ll fall behind if I don’t grind for more relics. Ugh

I love the idea of the relics overall, but question their implementation.

The lame sacrifice event this month is further killing the desire to play as well. :(

[Amarthir]

Now that we have the relics for a week, I think they should have capped purchasing them. And I hate limited purchases, but it would have kept the arena more balanced.

A limit of so many of each class, or maybe a total of something like 20 per week may have been a good idea. The battles are taking longer which I hate, and the Arena just feels off.

I had around 10,000 IC that I spent in relics last week, plus what I earned since then and the battles are still a pita. Not having fun in the arena right now, but I know I’ll fall behind if I don’t grind for more relics. Ugh

I love the idea of the relics overall, but question their implementation.

The lame sacrifice event this month is further killing the desire to play as well. :(

To be honest I've had next to no desire to play at all anymore. I logged in over the last week just to buy the 50 ironite skill shard and to play my forum troopers. The trooper grind is too long, and the only other thing right now is PvP and even the fun of PvP is getting stale for me, I've put almost no effort in my own relics other than just buying the level 1 versions simply to say I have all of them.

The Gauntlet is going to be a massive breath of fresh air for me but hopefully it shows up before I decide to quit entirely.

[Sponholz]

... All the above ...

I hate to be that guy, but...

I told you all so...

Good to know more people are finally starting to see that the Relics impact is not so "minimal" after all.


... Ed.

[Bradata]

I feel you, guys! I had some Iron coins saved, more than you T-Man but still can't be a mach to some who have pushed much more than most of us before and stocked mountain of IC. I still manage for now but it really takes longer than before.

[T-Man]

Also, and I know this was mentioned, but not being able to see the relic % increase before purchase makes no sense. An oversight, or was it meant to kept hidden for some reason?

[Sponholz]

Also, and I know this was mentioned, but not being able to see the relic % increase before purchase makes no sense. An oversight, or was it meant to kept hidden for some reason?

You really have to ask that?

I will answer you with another question: Where are the odds on souls?


OFC they won't tell us unless enforced by Apple/Google (I hope to see the same policy on Google side also) stores.

... Ed.

[T-Man]

You really have to ask that?

I will answer you with another question: Where are the odds on souls?


OFC they won't tell us unless enforced by Apple/Google (I hope to see the same policy on Google side also) stores.

... Ed.

Lol. I know, and get hiding the drop %. But really, what’s their benefit of hiding the relic thing? Though I know NF are secretive in general.

[Sponholz]

- Rushed content
- Don't want to publicity show if there is a diminishing return on the %s
- Some are saying that the last Levels the % is way above the others (can't tell for sure.) so its even more P2W/Grind
- Lazyness, so this way they could "tune" the relics and save time on updating the tooltips inside the store (BTW Devs: Why the Hell the store lags more then the entire game when there are more then usual items? there are no excuses to make it lag like that, its heavier than any stage in the hole game.)

I can keep going on and on and on and on... But I'm sure you got the point.

... Ed.

[Coletrain]

Gunner Relic of Health LvL 1: 100 IC, 12% bonus

[T-Man]

- Rushed content
- Don't want to publicity show if there is a diminishing return on the %s
- Some are saying that the last Levels the % is way above the others (can't tell for sure.) so its even more P2W/Grind
- Lazyness, so this way they could "tune" the relics and save time on updating the tooltips inside the store (BTW Devs: Why the Hell the store lags more then the entire game when there are more then usual items? there are no excuses to make it lag like that, its heavier than any stage in the hole game.)

I can keep going on and on and on and on... But I'm sure you got the point.

... Ed.

All valid points, but I tend to think it was just rushed and not really thought out nor play tested. Nothing new there.

[Yup]

Actually I noticed a trend years ago regarding game documentation.....

Some of the revenue is from the game.. the other portion is from selling "strategy" and "guide" books. So the devs probably either write the books.. or sell the information to those writing books. It's a commodity and if they were to share it freely, they may be loosing revenue.

Screws the players, but seems to be the trend since sometime in the early 2000s


I mean remember when those Xbox/Playstation games came with a little book full of information.... not anymore. Now all you get is a little card telling you to "register somewhere!". Now all the info is either hidden away in-game or nowhere to be found... unless you by the book.

[hold]

All valid points, but I tend to think it was just rushed and not really thought out nor play tested. Nothing new there.

Honourable you still give them the benefit of the doubt but after almost 2 years ... I don't buy it anymore. Quality is still poor but the "fear of missing out" card is played more often and getting more expensive.

[T-Man]

Actually I noticed a trend years ago regarding game documentation.....

Some of the revenue is from the game.. the other portion is from selling "strategy" and "guide" books. So the devs probably either write the books.. or sell the information to those writing books. It's a commodity and if they were to share it freely, they may be loosing revenue.

Screws the players, but seems to be the trend since sometime in the early 2000s


I mean remember when those Xbox/Playstation games came with a little book full of information.... not anymore. Now all you get is a little card telling you to "register somewhere!". Now all the info is either hidden away in-game or nowhere to be found... unless you by the book.

I do remember. I remember buying Phantasy Star 2 for Genesis that came with the huge guide book. All game game review publishers said Sega was stupid for doing this (could have sold separately), and to my knowledge it never happened again.
With the internet, is there still money in publishing guides?

[T-Man]

Honourable you still give them the benefit of the doubt but after almost 2 years ... I don't buy it anymore. Quality is still poor but the "fear of missing out" card is played more often and getting more expensive.

I am a glass half full kind of guy. What can I say? ;)
Even if sometimes my posting about this game makes me seem otherwise. :rolleyes:

[RobG-9641]

Bradata much respect! Went up against your defense, with a strong offense, your defense destroyed me in one round. Your team + Relics proves they make a difference. I’ve been skeptical about the Relics because I can’t see the stat increases. But they’re definitely working. Pros & cons for them, I didn’t like them at first, but now, glad to be getting a chance to bulk up on them before new content released. And until I get a Lilith and more relics, will be avoiding Bradata lol!

[Stormseye]

Global Health Relic lvl 8 61% health for 1400 IC
Rank 9 will cost me 1575 IC will know % maybe by the end of week.

[satani]

Warrior ATK 7/10 brings +50%, next one costs 1024 IC
Sentinel Life 6/10 brings +54%, next one costs 1225 IC

[Patrice-1201]

Global Health Relic lvl 8 61% health for 1400 IC
Rank 9 will cost me 1575 IC will know % maybe by the end of week.

Level 9 is 70% and the last one costs 1750 IC for 80%

[edsel]

And the same hi cost is for Sentinel level 9 giving +85 and then 1750 for lvl 10 health +100%. Shortly my Visions Eddie will have over 70,000 hp!

[Yup]

That all sounds great until you realize boosting attack of a class can let them do 40-50k damage in 1 strike :) I've split my purchases.. some on health.. but never neglecting the other areas... it's paid off well facing teams that have focused primarily on the HP relics.

[blade685]

first post not up to date, mariner is gone?

[Askora]

first post not up to date, mariner is gone?

I don't think gone completely yet, just a lot more casual every day. Same as many other long time players.

[blade685]

I don't think gone completely yet, just a lot more casual every day. Same as many other long time players.

it will be better if you can take all information for a new thread if he can't update the first page
If i can later i will do it

[Askora]

Quoting Mariner here, "Haha I didn't keep it updated because it was hard to aggregate all the random postings from different threads".

So it would be cool if you want to pick up where he left off.

[blade685]

Quoting Mariner here, "Haha I didn't keep it updated because it was hard to aggregate all the random postings from different threads".

So it would be cool if you want to pick up where he left off.

i must do another thread for that to be the first post :)
I will try if i have the time

[Stormseye]

Is the bonus for Global Magic Resistance really only 1% from rank 5 to rank 6? From 15% to 16% for 850 IC? What a rip!

[Tim28213]

Are any of the relic lists being updated? I looked a few days ago trying to decide what to purchase and the ones I could find still have huge holes in the data.

[Ip4]

is best to upgrade first heath (global)to 80% than attack and defense?

[Stormseye]

I am using this format. Currently working on Global Magic Resistance. All priors are done.

Global Health
Class Health
Class Attack
Class Magic
Global Attack
Global Defense
Global Magic Resistance
Class Defense
Class Magic Resistance
Global Fury
Class Fury

[rags-6094]

I prefer to think about relics in small pieces, in other words one at a time, I tend to purchase them depending on the class of the toons I'm using in PVP at that moment. There's 360 individual relics - you only have to purchase each one once thank goodness!
Just chip away even a couple each week, every single one makes a small positive difference to your team.
Definitely agree with global health 80% first up though...

[Tim28213]

I've got the basic global relics I want and am starting to work on the class specifics.
I keep hoping one of the relics lists will get completed so I can plan out how much I want to spend in each category and know the expected reward.
It looks like the lists that were started haven't been updated in a while.

[Yup]

No one was contributing any data.. so lists died.

I have my own database-driven page to calculate costs, total boosts (class + global) etc. That allows me to easily see where a team is at and where it may be lacking.

Overall I try and build HP first, then fill in in other areas, building all classes up fairly evenly for the most part. I do favor current PVP teams though.

At weekly rollover it's a bit faster collecting iron coins. So I typically buy the expensive stuff after the rollover then later in the week I'm down to the less expensive relics, so I kind of build everything in tiers.

[rags-6094]

Perfectly said Yup, that's exactly what I do.. it would be nice if we had another event that was giving away larger stacks of IC though, but I guess that won't happen now with gauntlet just round the corner...

[Cefiar]

Re: Lists - Since we've now been told a "Wiki" is coming, a few of us that were preparing or had been making lists of stuff (not just relics) all seem to have stopped doing so.

I know part of that (for me) was while the content would all be there, gathering the content takes a while and at the same time you're entering it into some sort of format (a list, a database, etc). You then need to keep it up to date as changes happen. If you then have to take all that data and re-enter it into a wiki in a completely different format, it's basically not worth doing it all until the wiki is online and just enter it straight into that.

Basically, converting data from one tool (or system) to another is really time consuming. Any list or database is doing that from the game to that system. Converting it them to the wiki is doing that again, which is a fair waste of time all in all that I couldn't be bothered with.

[Yup]

Well.... the game **is** a database. I mean it has to store what talismans are what, what characters are what.. what level means what.. what star means what, etc. Why data couldn't merely be pulled from the game directly to populate a mySQL database for a web wiki is beyond me.

[Knut-3112]

An ideal situation would be if the wiki used the same database as the game, nothing would have to be converted then and it'd be always up-to-date.

[natasar]

With the new „Guy Fawkes Day Celebration“ deals they offer „Lightbringer relics“ (for real money only as far as I can see). To me it seems that these are the first „non-global“ relics and will work only in the LoL dungeons (and maybe other event dungeons). Can anyone confirm?

[druid138]

With the new „Guy Fawkes Day Celebration“ deals they offer „Lightbringer relics“ (for real money only as far as I can see). To me it seems that these are the first „non-global“ relics and will work only in the LoL dungeons (and maybe other event dungeons). Can anyone confirm?

Yes, I agree. The in-game news feed says they will be active in LoL and special event dungeons, but not BNW. In addition, it seems they will only be active for 14 days following acquisition. For now, they are only available for $ purchase. Maybe they'll appear for ICs at some point?

[thealchemist]

Seeing how they are so time limited and clearly say for event dungeons, seems safe to assume that another event dungeon can't be too far away?

[aidinia]

Can anyone explain how Relics work?
I've been buying them, but I still wonder.
For example, I have now HP - lv6 on global (that's 46%) and HP -lv2(22%) in Warrior, does that mean my warriors should have 68%?
68% of what HP exactly?
I'll keep buying them, because I have the coins, but.. I don't really understand them.

[Wyphy]

I don't definitely know the math, but I presume they work the same way as talismans.

Each relic adds what it says from the base stats, so for your example, global 46% and warrior 22%, a warrior with 1000 base health stat would have an additional 460 and 220 health, for total of 1680 health.
It's possible that it compounded, but I'd say unlikely since that's not how talismans work.

[Liu]

I don't definitely know the math, but I presume they work the same way as talismans.

Each relic adds what it says from the base stats, so for your example, global 46% and warrior 22%, a warrior with 1000 base health stat would have an additional 460 and 220 health, for total of 1680 health.
It's possible that it compounded, but I'd say unlikely since that's not how talismans work.

When you say compounded I guess you mean multiplicative ? I'm Pretty sure the bonuses are additive not multiplicative. When toons revive you can see how much health they revive with. If it were multiplicative they should exceed 100k life, which they generally do not. Soo ...