Why Relics are BAD for the game, my LotB story.

[Sponholz]

Ok so, for those who don't know me, my Name is Eduardo (Edward if you like to translate foreign names), but you can call me Ed.

I have been playing this game sice the beggining, and I sadly lost my first account, and decided to do a fresh start instead of trying to recover the old one.

Said that, I can assure you that I have a LOT of hours spent playing this game, hell I'm playing my Troopers while I'm writing this.


So...

Why do I think this Relic system is a really bad thing...

I am a competitive player, in basically any game I played, and the one thing that got me into Arena here in LotB was the possibility of beating Slauki, Bradata, Nicko, Mariner, Shaolinlondo, Askora, Kamuz, Carlos and several others that I consider top players in the Arena.

Man I still remember when "donslauki", kamuz and the other names showed up on the attack list, I was really nervous, and honorable to be able to from a fresh start be against the top players again.

I got my ass beat, like a lot of times from Slauki's team, winning or losing the coin toss.

My team was good, my talis wasn't optimized tho, had something to aim for, something that required some time playing and farming the shit out of the BNW to lvl those talis up.

But you know what, it was worth it, some days/weeks have passed, my team was doing good, correct talis, lvl 50 ones all good.

And then again, those names showed up... oh boy... REMATCH TIME!!!!

And I did it, once I had figured out a team that I was comfortable with I managed to farm the talis for then, lvled then up and I did it, I have won against several of the top dogs teams. And I was really happy and feeling rewarded for putting my time into the game.

The amount of time we both played the game didn't mattered, honestly it don't take that much of a time to farm and lvl the talis needed for you to enter the arena in a competitive level. (could take longer cause of RNG for some needed ones, like Immunity for ex).

Anyway, I could have waited for a month to prep my team, and the challenge would still be there, waiting for me, there is some nasty defenses out there, believe me.

They needed to think and test the defense, they spent hours figuring out AI patterns, and the best characters that synergized well with each other.

It was a blast to farm for that objectives.




Now the Relics arrived...




If the Relics existed in the above timeline, I would never be able to beat then, they would always be ahead of me no matter how much I tried, the play time here is now the demanding factor.

When I would be finally getting the talis I needed to finish my team, they would have raised the GAP in terms of relics by a mile, and no, I would not be able to "eventually" catch up on then, the GAP and time needed would be too high.

Now you don't need to over think you defense teams, you will always be ahead of anyone that want to try and challenge your teams.

It doesn't matter if it affects "only" the base stats, well it don't, there are several scaling factors involved that the base stats does matter, and a lot. (Kaz words: massively buffed, regarding talis that scale out of the base stats).



Anyway, I needed to get this out of my chest, this game helped me a LOT, and I mean a LOT when I was (still am) going trough some heavy stuff on my life. More then you all can imagine.

I am just sad to see a P2W/Grindfest pattern forming in it.


... Ed.


Request for the Admins: Please change the title of this post to "Why Relics are BAD (PVP wise) for the game, my LotB Arena story."
The title can be a little misleading and this is not what I want to pass. Thanks in adv.

[Mariner-1212]

Great story, Ed, thanks for sharing. I can relate to the feeling of seeing the names of the greats in the list and getting excited to go in against them, even enjoying it when I get my ass kicked... it's a lot of fun and you learn a lot.

I think a lot of players will feel the same way about the Relics. For a very long time, the gap is going to be huge. It's not doable, but I definitely think PVP would benefit from weight-classes like boxing. The more relics you have, the higher class you get put into. So for the newbs, there's a featherweight division where they can achieve eternal in that division. They can also opt to move into the next division by consistently winning and by having a specific amount of relics / talismans / etc.

It would eliminate the impossibility of achievement for players in each tier. Carlos is a machine, even without Relics. With them, there's no way you or I are going to dent him. It just won't happen. But the next tier down might be a sweet spot for us competitively, and allow us to have a shot at the top of that division.

I think the Relics are a great addition from a playability/excitement standpoint... but they need to be framed carefully so they don't generate hopelessness.

[Sponholz]

Thanks for replying Mariner, and I don't think Relics are a bad thing outside the Arena, they are just not needed there, I think mostly will agree with me here.

For PvE purposes they are indeed amazing, another long-term goal to beat the hardest bosses that will be added SOON™ (Google Blizzard's SOON™ if you didn't get the joke here).

I don't remember me complaining about then regarding PvE in all honesty so I agree with you 100% there.

And thinking about PvE, the fact that you could buy Relics for PvE purposes inside the Arena is also an amazing thing if you ask me, this alone gives me another objective to play even more Arena matches. (not considering the fact that they also work inside the Arena).

Can you imagine in like a month or two, the "guaranteed" shards in an Arena event? I mean you have to WIN to get the shards, so yeah even those type of events will be affected, 400 wins? LOL even the basic 300 wins will be a nightmare if you are an average player. (hell even we that consider ourselves the above-average-not-so-hardcore players will have a hard time on this events).

... Ed.

[scott-5496]

Kind of with you on this Ed. This is a potential game changer for all players in a good and bad way. I play a lot but only really on the auto-farm troopers and then for the rest of the day to get gold, resources and the like. I dont play lots of arena - usually just what I get as a freebe on SoW each day or when I get SoW from sacrifice for example. However, it may be that with this new change and the upcoming Gauntlet iron coins will be availble a bit more and we will have more carrot/stick to make us play to get these coins. The devs and the game have to make money - simple. The way to do that is for the players to chase goals, be that an new character, event, talisman, coins, eternal or whatever...so we are mere cogs in a money making wheel and that wont change. I do think that we do need new stuff to do and new stuff like this gives new goals - all of which I see as good but you are correct - it will potentially drive away lower level players and that is a fear.....alternatively it may be what the game needs to get new bllod as they have a pretty quick way to boost there teams.

For me PVP is a challenge - I am a lazy player and dont swap out toons in my team to often - I use the three on the PVP screen and that is about it....I cant be bothered changing talisman or teams to much to beat PVP players so my goal is to use my core toons and Eds to beat what is put in front of me. I used to easily get say 95% success rates a few months ago - now I am lucky to get mid 80% or so - there is just so much more variation these days and my laziness means that I foten get beat and often a team I should on paper beat batters me due to RNG. Thsi I think is the thing with the game nowadays - a level 50 or 60 can still get me if they have a decent team and RNG helps them. I donthink this will change so I am now less bothered about losses to lower teams - it is part of MY meta! LOL.

Saying that I am actually getting more into PVP these days as the variation is so much more than it has been no real domianant Ed - it was Mummy, it was Visions, it was VHE it was SSE and so one - now there is a mix of most of these so for lazt players like me we will lose a few more matches - again I try not to get too bothered as I do not pay to play (other than my time) but due to my massive ironite stock pile I may actually use some of it in PVP, why not eh!

I think any change is a good thing for the game and we all need some new stuff to aim for and if relics is one then that is fine but yes only the devs will really see what it is doing to numbers playing and hwo the game is being played....so I would not be surprised if they revisit this again to help bring a better balance for all levels of players.

I just hope that it works out for most and not for a few. PVE is really just a trooper grind, much like BNW ad LOL for resources - the fact they are building in events to the grind is good so I think the devs are doing OK and I am all for more content....we just need to give it some time to bed in to see what is next round the corner. Gauntlet I am looking forward to....and Night City etc!

Cheers

[Stormseye]

I am already running 5 relics and the difference is huge. I have to agree that Relics either need to be null and void in PVP or they need to be tiered. I battled today against VHE/GLillith/Allied General/GCoTD, the player had two ranks in gunner Relic attack and 4 of the 6 globals. I didn't get out of the first round...and he went second. I was hit for 52k.

I am also a bit confused as to why they are now forcing people to play PVP to get Relics. I know some never venture into the Arena save for the daily reward. There needs to be another avenue to acquire Relics, especially for the casual players that enjoy the PVE side exclusively. Maybe the Mode-Specific Relics will be available through other means since we haven't seen them yet. Though it may be likely there are PVP and PVE only Relics.

[DIEDD]

I agree with everything that has been said here, the relics are a great addition to the game but I think the devs made a serious mistake allowing them to be applicable to the PVP, I am not a pvp player, it really bores me, just I play it when I want to get iron coins or in events, now it will become complicated even for those who casually play this game mode. The idea that they apply to pve and that you have to get them playing pvp is great, it encourages you to continue playing pvp and it serves to make you stronger against the bosses of the pve mode, but I do not see the point in the pvp, I always had the vision of that this game mode was to test the skills and strategies of the player against other players, but with the relics I think this is lost because in the long term only the one that has all the best improvements of the relics will win.

[dragonmat89]

I agree totally - great idea for PVE as future levels will only be harder and we need another way of levelling up. For PVP though it will become a pay to win system so maybe just setting them for PVE would be the best bet?

[slauki]

cool story ed, thanks for sharing. not much more to add since i commented a lot on this. i agree with every post here. let's see how the game will develop. for me a new hame mode like ganutlet would have been much more interesting, but well the relics spice the game up a lot at least...

[kkkreg5]

So the up coming Arena event will be impossible if only wins are registered, as the last few have been, with these relics. I agree with Diedd and Scott on this. I don't play PVP at all except for events because of the time needed and I don't want to put in the time to create teams.

I don't see why NF doesn't just make the announcement that LOTB is now a "pay to win" game. Do this, disclose the odds and I think all players would respect them more.

[Amarthir]

While I can't wholeheartedly agree with what everyone is saying, I can't exactly disagree either, since these new relics came out things have probably changed enormously in the higher upper ranks, but for me, ehh they're still kinda the same. The only time I willingly went to the highest rank I could get I was far too stressed out about staying there I decided it wasn't for me.

Anyways back to the subject. There's a counter to relics, and that's in the new "Exhaust" effect. Exhaust reduces all stats except for health by I think 90%, meaning that those fancy new relics wouldn't be able to save you. Right now there are two ways of applying this,

1: Zone Talismans, not exactly my personal go to since they're hard as dick to acquire, but I think they can affect everyone if I'm not mistaken.

2: Magus Lilith: again not that easy to find but I think she can only apply it to one enemy at a time.

And for the health part of it, we're waiting to get a chance to obtain Necropolis Talismans, and they're reduce the overall health of someone every time you hit them. That's really brutal if you think about it. They could show up in the next arena event for all I know.


So to wrap it up, yes I agree that at the current moment, those who had a large cache of iron coins are going to benefit more from the new release than those without, and new players may have a tough time against someone who has them. But hey, they start out really cheap, plus everyone talks about the fact that the Gauntlet WILL be another way of getting them. So sooner or later PvP won't be "forcing you to play".

[hold]

While I can't wholeheartedly agree with what everyone is saying, I can't exactly disagree either, since these new relics came out things have probably changed enormously in the higher upper ranks, but for me, ehh they're still kinda the same. The only time I willingly went to the highest rank I could get I was far too stressed out about staying there I decided it wasn't for me.

Anyways back to the subject. There's a counter to relics, and that's in the new "Exhaust" effect. Exhaust reduces all stats except for health by I think 90%, meaning that those fancy new relics wouldn't be able to save you. Right now there are two ways of applying this,

1: Zone Talismans, not exactly my personal go to since they're hard as dick to acquire, but I think they can affect everyone if I'm not mistaken.

2: Magus Lilith: again not that easy to find but I think she can only apply it to one enemy at a time.

And for the health part of it, we're waiting to get a chance to obtain Necropolis Talismans, and they're reduce the overall health of someone every time you hit them. That's really brutal if you think about it. They could show up in the next arena event for all I know.


So to wrap it up, yes I agree that at the current moment, those who had a large cache of iron coins are going to benefit more from the new release than those without, and new players may have a tough time against someone who has them. But hey, they start out really cheap, plus everyone talks about the fact that the Gauntlet WILL be another way of getting them. So sooner or later PvP won't be "forcing you to play".

CR fury ... if you stay alive long enough ...

[Nifelheim]

I think they are good for the game:

-Helps you if you lose the coin toss
-Top grinders to casual pvp'ers will be against similar rank on atk list
-Gives help to those who don't have a lot of natural 5* troopers/bad rng
-More long term goals. How often do you read of someone saying "boring,need new content, where's night city, etc"
-helps balance gunner/assassin troopers with low health/def/magic resist to sentinels who lack atk/magic

There are more pros/cons I'm sure but this is a new aspect and will play out in the coming weeks

[Sponholz]

I think they are good for the game:

1 -Helps you if you lose the coin toss
2 -Top grinders to casual pvp'ers will be against similar rank on atk list
3 -Gives help to those who don't have a lot of natural 5* troopers/bad rng
4 -More long term goals. How often do you read of someone saying "boring,need new content, where's night city, etc"
5 -helps balance gunner/assassin troopers with low health/def/magic resist to sentinels who lack atk/magic

There are more pros/cons I'm sure but this is a new aspect and will play out in the coming weeks

I also think they are good for the game (PvE), but not for Arena.

1 - You are probably right, except that if are being matched with Relic powered/boosted teams, something is already not going well on the matchmaking of the game.
2 - IF and that's a big IF the matchmaking is improved based on overal stats of the team (or something similar that takes into account the relic lvl of the teams that show up on the list), right now is based on your rating.
3 - Again, this should not be a issue if the matchmaking were done based on other factors and not mainly(only?) on rating. Oh and Speed of Light Eddie and Sentinel Desert Guardian are both amazing right now, a 3* and a 2* (story one).
4 - Relics are NOT new content, Night City and Gauntlet will be, Relics are just new Items being sold on the Arena store for now.
5 - I honestly thought they already were, sorry mate, no need to balance this trough something like Relics, I have gotten my ass handed to me a LOT of times by gunners/assassins even when using HP monsters like Viking and/or Visions. And vice-versa I also winned a lot of battles using Visions against g/a teams, the game stat wise was well balanced IMO.

Please take note, that I am expressing my opinion on the Relics and trying to explain my concerns in implementing then in the game WITHOUT any new content to support the inclusion of then in the first place!

Ask yourself if you needed Relic right now in the first place.

If your answer is: Well I need new stuff to do in the game, so Relics are a nice addition, sorry to disappoint you, but you are NOT doing new stuff, you are still playing the same content we have prior to the Relics, and are just farming 10 (or 1) IC at a time for then, you are not doing something new.

They are a nice addition for sure, I like to think of then being a new lvling system, but they can't be considered "new content".

... Ed.

[mk ultra]

I don't see the relics as a bad thing. "The gap" everyone is complaining about is not that big. I am fighting all top teams, many with 100% health boost, and still not do not loose more than usual. The flights only got a little longer. I had only 4k iron coins and those came only from free sows and doing 200 battles per week with around 95% wins.
On the other hand you can't expect to be at the same level with top players without investing as much time.

[Bradata]

I never considered myself top player but seeing my name mentioned as one of them... me like it.
While I agree with your concerns regarding the relics I can assure you that they aren't as powerful as you think. My defense gets their ass kicked by teams that when I revenge them they are gone in 2 turns at the most which tells me they don't have any relics applied but the players still managed to beat me.
But then lets look from the point of view of the "top" players. They have A LOT of iron coins why, because they played and won a lot of fights for a very long time and they may see this as reward for their effort and time spent here. I was the same as you, very competitive even when I didn't have the OP characters the others had. Many even mentioned that Bradata would revenge anyone even the teams with Prisoner, that guy was the one everyone wanted and I didn't have him then.
Relics give us some boost, I agree but very soon most of the players who really play the game will have them maxed and then back to as it was before the relics.
Is this fare? May be not but then nothing is perfect as we all wish to be. Spent all of my ironites on trying to get Lilith, at least one and nada! And some would say that "top" players are favored more than the rest, not true, they just push more than the rest and that's why they have more than the others.

[Yup]

Anyways back to the subject. There's a counter to relics, and that's in the new "Exhaust" effect. Exhaust reduces all stats except for health by I think 90%, meaning that those fancy new relics wouldn't be able to save you. Right now there are two ways of applying this,

2: Magus Lilith: again not that easy to find but I think she can only apply it to one enemy at a time.



Have her.. yeah 1 at a time.. and running AMOLOD with her... it's really NOT that impactful on enemies. I mean I see her cast Exhaust on Pyro Soldiers... but they still seem to survive a hit. So 90%?? Not quite sure about that....



To me.. PvP has ALWAYS been about the amount of time your'e willing to play. Now... with Relics, it is merely more obvious, but it hasn't changed.

[Sponholz]

Sup all...

Ok, I can see your point Bradata, I can't say I agree tho, plz don't get me wrong, but Relics are not a reward (quoting you: "they may see this as reward for their effort and time spent here"), they are just an unneeded addition to the game atm.

There is NO NEW CONTENT, so they serve to what? Brag yourself about how even more easily you are beating teams in the Arena?

You said they aren't as powerful as most think, Ok, then why put shards on our characters in the first place? the shard basically (scale is a factor I know) do what Relics do, raise some % on some skills.

The GAP will exist for a LONG time ahead.

I don't want to offend anyone here, plz don't take it personal, but sometimes I feel that we are like dogs, that every now-and-then NF trow us a bone and we all became happy little puppies.

Ok, anyone can come here and say:

Oh, SOON™ we will have Gauntlet, man it isn't even on BETA stage yet!!!! Plz don't fool yourself thinking the "Other ways of getting Iron Coins AKA: Gauntlet" Will be available next week...

But If you say they are not as powerful I take your word for it, since I don't have enough Iron Coins to test then all, but any Relic you have that an opponent doesn't its a clear advantage to you.

This is just math, X + Y% > X



Finally, again... I AM NOT AGAINST RELICS!!!! I just don't think they are needed and/or should've been implemented in the game WITHOUT extra modes to support then.

They are NOT needed to finish the game on any difficulty, and they are NOT needed in the Arena.

And sometimes I amaze myself when some people here say that in some months they will have then maxed, hell its 210,000+ Iron Coins. I hope I am wrong here, but I don't think Gauntlet is coming anytime soon, and besides I don't think Gauntlet will trow Iron Coins out of nothing for us, we WILL have to farm, and for quite a while.



Oh, and ADS are coming to the game, pretty, pretty soon!!! (not Blizzard's soon, soon for real).



You all can call then whatever you want to make you feel better tho, but in the end they are a poor addition to the game until new modes become available. (hell even for the new modes they woudn't be needed, I just like then for the fact that its another form of leveling up your characters).

If someone feel offended by my post, please don't take it personal, but I can't be the only one seeing the big picture here...


... Ed.

[Bradata]

Spon, I don't think anyone would be offended by your posts, man! In many of them I can say for sure that you are expressing the frustration for many of us, me included. Many things were done that we don't like in this game, don't get me started on the feature where now we can see what team set up the players who attacked you had. But this is something that deserves it's own thread.
Forum is for us to share our thoughts on the game and hopefully make the devs change the thinks we consider bad.
Cheers!

[Sponholz]

Thanks Bradata, really appreciate the reply, like honestly.


I know sometimes I sound like and grumpy old man.

But I like this game, and I am worried about the future for it, I know the devs have they way of seeing things, long-term wise most of the times.

And I am worried that this type of rushed additions to the game (LotB in it's current state doesn't needed Relics at all), will drive new players (and sources of income) away from the game.


You know what would be a KILLER addition to the game? a faster way to use our Troopers! then we could use the "new free" time to farm expensive dungeons like BNW or LoL more then usual.

Relics should've been released within the Gauntlet or any other mode that would help to alleviate the farm for then.


... Ed.

[Yup]

I think we need to quit calling this a "game". Games have endings, You can win a game, you can beat a game. LOTB is NOT a "game". At best it's a collection, at worst it's a slot machine for intangible items.

I mean if it were actually a "game" you'd level past 100.... you'd continually be building experience.... you'd be conquering new worlds and new challenges... not merely collecting more shit to make your already collected shit be different than the shit other "players' have collected.

Hey monkey.. here's some carrots to make a different colored handful to throw at the some window you've been throwing at!!!! Ain't it so much better than the brown handful???

This being posted, I do NOT fault the developers.. heck capitalism is capitalism. I think any "player" who reaches level 100... beats Underworld Madness... then.. still plays for a bit and fails to realize that THER IS NO END, NO GOAL, NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS, NO WAY TO "WIN" anything.... is their own worst enemy.

[The Educated fool]

You're spot on, Yup, in terms of what this game is as relates to the values of more traditional games, but it's really just the way (many app) games are... they're collecting games, and yes, we should all be aware that every one of them is playing on a collectors' obsessive nature in order to take them for as much money as they can. This is simply the nature of the (app game) beast, I think (no pun intended). ;)

As far as the relics go, I honestly haven't noticed too many differences yet in the Arena, so I will reserve judgment for now. I also think it's encouraging that Kaz has already spoken to the fact that potential radical imbalances will be addressed as they arise, and honestly, I don't think they've ever been exactly sparing with the nerf bat in the past, so I don't think there's much cause to worry. The system is new, and will take some time to iron out. That having been said--if relics were to be excluded from the Arena entirely, I wouldn't have any problem with that, and the potential to drive players away with the "Gap" is definitely there, for sure.

Just my two cents. :cool:

4397

[hold]

4397

That's impossible. They already announced it last September ... It must be out by now!!!

http://ironmaidenlegacy.com/game-update-pvp-night-city/

(Here is a free sarcasm tag <sarcasm></sarcasm> ... place it in this comment where suitable ... For a limited time you can also buy irony souls for 100 ironite. Irony souls give you the double chance to get a sarcasm tag!)

[Askora]

Now that we've had a few days with relics in the arena I've noticed very little real change. There are changes, but nothing that makes it significantly different to me. Some battles are a little tougher than before, some easier. The names on the lists seem to be the same as before. The introduction of the Liliths and AI tuning changes I think have had a bigger impact right now.

In the long run it may make it harder for people at lower tiers to climb, but the short term impact is minimal in my opinion. Hopefully gauntlet comes quickly and gives a new source for ICs, although that won't really close the gap. I think the real truth is that what closes the gap is determination and strategy. The upside is the arena seems a bit more active.

[slauki]

Now that we've had a few days with relics in the arena I've noticed very little real change. There are changes, but nothing that makes it significantly different to me. Some battles are a little tougher than before, some easier. The names on the lists seem to be the same as before. The introduction of the Liliths and AI tuning changes I think have had a bigger impact right now.

In the long run it may make it harder for people at lower tiers to climb, but the short term impact is minimal in my opinion. Hopefully gauntlet comes quickly and gives a new source for ICs, although that won't really close the gap. I think the real truth is that what closes the gap is determination and strategy. The upside is the arena seems a bit more active.

i can say that i got a SIGNIFICANT defense boost after i bumped my team with 30k coins... ask the poor guy who lost 5 times in a row against me if nothing changed.
i agree though, if you have a solid strategy you can make up for some disadvantage. but if you are new to the game you will have an extremly hard time to make it to the top.

[T-Man]

I like the relics personally. A nice way to build toons to ones preference. Though I do understand it could widen the gap of players without a stash of iron coins.

Speaking of iron coins, we do need another way to earn them ASAP. I know it’s coming, but how soon? I had a lot of free time to play the arena this week, but I expect this will not be the norm for me.

[Askora]

i can say that i got a SIGNIFICANT defense boost after i bumped my team with 30k coins... ask the poor guy who lost 5 times in a row against me if nothing changed.
i agree though, if you have a solid strategy you can make up for some disadvantage. but if you are new to the game you will have an extremly hard time to make it to the top.

Losing 5 times to the same team is definitely not a good strategy. :cool: I've had that before, and does make defense look better, but it doesn't always mean it is better.

[T-Man]

i can say that i got a SIGNIFICANT defense boost after i bumped my team with 30k coins... ask the poor guy who lost 5 times in a row against me if nothing changed.
i agree though, if you have a solid strategy you can make up for some disadvantage. but if you are new to the game you will have an extremly hard time to make it to the top.

I get that, but really newbies should have to earn their way to the top anyway. Think about what it took us old timers to get there. It was a whole lot harder to earn toons, skill shards, etc. in the earlier days. It has taken countless hours of grinding to get there.

There were quite a few newbies, or at least players I haven’t noticed before with Liliths that were quite competitive in the arena just because of her. I don’t have her btw.

On their other hand, the arena could frustrate players to the point of quitting. But this game has always been a grind. Newbies just need to grind it out to get there like we all did. Lol

[Askora]

The one thing I think it'll hurt the most is for arena events that are based solely on number of wins. Would be nice to see that go back to just the number of battles.

[slauki]

fair point with the grindind it through. we really spent a ton of time to archieve our ingame goals and this has to count too and give us some advantage over new guys...so it's an balancing act...but yeah when i look at some new accounts it's insane how fast some guys accumulate top chars. it took me forever to get my first 5* and with forever i mean 6 months or so. this has changed a lot now.


The one thing I think it'll hurt the most is for arena events that are based solely on number of wins. Would be nice to see that go back to just the number of battles.

yeah makes sense, but i fear they won't allow it, since too many guys just threw matches

BTW: anyone else thinks some liliths are somewhat out of line? especially the assassin and the gunner one? this should prolly be discussed in an own thread....

[T-Man]

fair point with the grindind it through. we really spent a ton of time to archieve our ingame goals and this has to count too and give us some advantage over new guys...so it's an balancing act...but yeah when i look at some new accounts it's insane how fast some guys accumulate top chars. it took me forever to get my first 5* and with forever i mean 6 months or so. this has changed a lot now.



yeah makes sense, but i fear they won't allow it, since too many guys just threw matches

BTW: anyone else thinks some liliths are somewhat out of line? especially the assassin and the gunner one? this should prolly be discussed in an own thread....

Agree with everything you guys are saying here. It took me 1.5 years to get Cyborg. I got a 2nd just after getting the first btw.

Also I though perhaps there could have been a limit on how many relics you could buy each week. Like the other weekly items. That may have kept the gap more in check. Though I do like the freedom to play the arena as much as you want to purchase the relics at will.

Some of the Liliths have crazy power. Took a few battles to see what they were about in the arena. Similar toons with less have been nerfed. Yes a topic for another thread. Lol

Going back to newbies, I just remembered I had somewhere like a 120 win streak going on Saturday before losing to a much lower ranked player with a Lilith. Granted I got lazy and should not have lost but goes to shows Newbies lucky to get her can still be competitive and dangerous.

[Liebhild]

Every won match should give the same amount of IC.

[Reeb99]

The relics seem like a diminished returns feature to eat the iron coins of players that have been succeeding in pvp for longer. I got a few of them, then realized that I'm probably better off skipping them for a while until I have all the talisman sets. Also with as much true damage is present in arena, defense and MR kind of has limited usefulness.

[Blade]

Also I though perhaps there could have been a limit on how many relics you could buy each week. Like the other weekly items. That may have kept the gap more in check.

This would have been an extremely good idea! So many weeks of almost fair play... strategy about what relics you buy first... saved time until the additional source of IC is released... Too bad it did not happen and now it is too late. Lost today in arena against a team with sentinel maya dowing 2*10.000 damage per turn!!! You can imagine the amount of relics behind that?!? Not even mentioning that she countered every single attack from my team...
I was surprised by the introduction of relics! You remember the times when the trooper souls were added? The player base was somewhat informed beforehand to save some trooper points! I would not have spend 1800 IC for the talisman set to complete the mission if I new about the way, relics were introduced to the game. And to me it looks like a hasty introduction, as the menu is very buggy (only for me?) and the idea that you do not know beforehand how much % added you get per buy cannot be intended! Or?

[Sponholz]

I'm now on standby mode, won't be playing this PoS as often, only Troopers (just because they are worth it as players, only reason I still play this thing) and daily arena, and that's it.



And guys, please WAKE THE F**K UP!!!! I lol'ed everytime someone said that the Relics didn't made an impact in the Arena because they were still winning... come on guys... WTF?! the next second most said that "it just took longer".

THAT IS THE HOLE POINT!!!! It's not that it would be impossible to win... But it made an SERIOUS impact, this thing was already time consuming, and now is EVEN MORE!!! WAKE UP GUYS!!!


Most here are just like this:

Navigator Eddie: OMG HE DOESN'T NEEDED TO BE CRIPPLED LIKE THAT!!! NOW MY RUNS TAKE 5 SECONDS MORE!!!! THATS SO UNFAIR!!! YOU BROKE THE CHARACTER OMG, OMG, OMG!!!

now...

Relics in Arena: OH GUYS, EVERYTHING IS FINE, I AM STILL WINNING, THE IMPACT WAS 'NON-EXISTENT' NOW THEY ARE JUST 'LONGER' FIGHTS!!!




The number 1 complaint about PvP a few weeks ago was about how much time the matches were taking, and now "cause we got Relics" all is fine...???!!!





Gez...

Make up your minds plz...

I don't think I need to say this, but the Navigator and Arena caps text has the use of Sarcasm, so don't get it personal.



... Ed.

[R1ck]

Relics are a needed feature so devs can release new content but it was a bad moment to release relics without new content. As usual devs release new content so everyone goes after them and spend money. But now they have make it even more boring to play PVP, fights are taking too long, that may discourage people instead of encourage them.

[DIEDD]

I'm now on standby mode, won't be playing this PoS as often, only Troopers (just because they are worth it as players, only reason I still play this thing) and daily arena, and that's it.



And guys, please WAKE THE F**K UP!!!! I lol'ed everytime someone said that the Relics didn't made an impact in the Arena because they were still winning... come on guys... WTF?! the next second most said that "it just took longer".

THAT IS THE HOLE POINT!!!! It's not that it would be impossible to win... But it made an SERIOUS impact, this thing was already time consuming, and now is EVEN MORE!!! WAKE UP GUYS!!!


Most here are just like this:

Navigator Eddie: OMG HE DOESN'T NEEDED TO BE CRIPPLED LIKE THAT!!! NOW MY RUNS TAKE 5 SECONDS MORE!!!! THATS SO UNFAIR!!! YOU BROKE THE CHARACTER OMG, OMG, OMG!!!

now...

Relics in Arena: OH GUYS, EVERYTHING IS FINE, I AM STILL WINNING, THE IMPACT WAS 'NON-EXISTENT' NOW THEY ARE JUST 'LONGER' FIGHTS!!!




The number 1 complaint about PvP a few weeks ago was about how much time the matches were taking, and now "cause we got Relics" all is fine...???!!!





Gez...

Make up your minds plz...

I don't think I need to say this, but the Navigator and Arena caps text has the use of Sarcasm, so don't get it personal.



... Ed.

LOL !, it seems that some people owe their lives to NF, at first I supported most of the decisions that NF made about the game (balance, nerfs, etc) but in the last time the list of errors It keeps growing and apparently they do not give a $h1t if they made a mistake or if they really listen to the suggestions of their players, sometimes I think it's not worth writing to give a recommendation about something, or report an error.

I'm in the same situation as you, right now I'm just playing because I have a great list of troopers and I have that feeling of loyalty towards them.

[Askora]

I stick to my opinion of them having a minimal impact. Most people are still competing at the level they were before. Can it slow down some battles? Yes. But, I think people miss the bigger picture.

We know gauntlet is coming. At some point maybe we'll get night city. The relics are needed to allow the new levels to be more challenging. It's good that we have the opportunity to start buffing up for these. Some top players will clear it easier than others and I'm sure as in the past, strategies will be shared that help lower level players.

Also in the works is a system to reduce the grind required for troopers. Which hopefully is not too far from being implemented. Less time spent on troopers means the slightly longer PvP battles won't be as big a concern.

All in all, I think as long as the new content starts rolling out soon it'll all be good.

[Yup]

How can I disable Relics if desired???? Not the feature.. just disable them boosting specific characters during a battle?

Example.. mission achievements....

There have been missions where I have to find a level 1 3 star toon in order to not kill a boss in a skull quest with the first hit. If I have relics and even the low level toons are boosted,.. it could potentially be a problem.


r what if I just want to see how a character is performing without the relic boosts?

[T-Man]

This would have been an extremely good idea! So many weeks of almost fair play... strategy about what relics you buy first... saved time until the additional source of IC is released... Too bad it did not happen and now it is too late. Lost today in arena against a team with sentinel maya dowing 2*10.000 damage per turn!!! You can imagine the amount of relics behind that?!? Not even mentioning that she countered every single attack from my team...
I was surprised by the introduction of relics! You remember the times when the trooper souls were added? The player base was somewhat informed beforehand to save some trooper points! I would not have spend 1800 IC for the talisman set to complete the mission if I new about the way, relics were introduced to the game. And to me it looks like a hasty introduction, as the menu is very buggy (only for me?) and the idea that you do not know beforehand how much % added you get per buy cannot be intended! Or?

At the very least a better heads up would have been cool. Thankfully I had a good stash of ic and didn’t jump right on a new set of talisman this month.

[Sponholz]

I stick to my opinion of them having a minimal impact. Most people are still competing at the level they were before. Can it slow down some battles? Yes. But, I think people miss the bigger picture.

We know gauntlet is coming. At some point maybe we'll get night city. The relics are needed to allow the new levels to be more challenging. It's good that we have the opportunity to start buffing up for these. Some top players will clear it easier than others and I'm sure as in the past, strategies will be shared that help lower level players.

Also in the works is a system to reduce the grind required for troopers. Which hopefully is not too far from being implemented. Less time spent on troopers means the slightly longer PvP battles won't be as big a concern.

All in all, I think as long as the new content starts rolling out soon it'll all be good.

Askora!!! Man... I agree on so much here, and at the same time disagree on the same much, if that makes any sense...

Just gonna point some things that I disagree that are important to discuss.

1- The relics are not needed to balance new content, they are just % of stats, so the new content could've be tuned to the current state of the game, BUT, they are a nice addition to works toward, so new content + relics = good thing.

2- Its not good that we have the opportunity to start buffing up for the new content, without the new content, if you buff too much your toons, the new content will became old really soon, there won't be any feel of progression at all, Relics should've use it's own currency that you would get in both PvE and PvP and should have been released alongside the new content.

3- The impact you said is minimal in the arena, ok I believe you... But I'm pretty sure you have bought some relics yourself don't you? so you are mostly, maybe by a few less leveled Relics, playing on an equal field.

4- Trooper system, yeah they are implementing this, just like Night City for like what? over an year now?

5- Gauntlet, this isn't even on beta stage yet.


What I agree the most of you is that indeed we both in our own terms, "think people miss the bigger picture."

I respect your opinion, but I think that any healthy discussion is always welcome.




Look, I'm not imposing nothing at anyone here, but this new stuff won't been releasing anytime soon, I wish, like really wish I was wrong here, there are a new Eddie coming up, Video ads coming up, nothing we are desperately asking tho.

Which is sad. This game is so well done when it works, the art style is amazing, so much potential being wasted cause things are either rushed, never fixed or forgotten.

... Ed.

[Askora]

What if when night city arrives it has the same 3 difficulties as the other cosmos worlds? What if easy is tuned to be somewhat challenging even with maxed toons? Could be the relics are meant to be able to progress through that.

Yes, I've bought relics as I'm sure many people have. Only a few players have really large stockpiles of ICs would be my guess. The most I ever had at one time was about 14k, but wasn't even close to that when the update came. So while there is some advantage, it's not huge and someone who plays more PvP than I do could probably quickly close the gap. The guys with more ICs also play more which means they'd beat me anyway.

As for the trooper system and new content I'm going to stay optimistic. With the tour starting in May I'm hoping there is content designed to tie in meaning NF has hard deadlines to get some of this done.

Time will tell and could be either one of is right.