View Full Version : Everything that is wrong with this game and the state it is in right now
I see the "derailing excuse" in the concerning thread as an attempt to silence players that speak up or at least to try to "break the resistence" ... but I won't be silent andy longer and took the effort to create a new thread that the discussion can continue here.
Why I see it that way? The concerning thread wasn't created by the devs and was of course another major f*ckup for no reason.
That's what we've got so far (without the quotes so it may be a bit confusing but the attempt to silence the criticism that way will not work this time):
hold: "Devs: "Booohoooo we would love to push new content out faster but our resources are limited ... *cry*"
... resources are put into things that aren't broken to break it.
With every update this scam and the guys calling the shots are less credible. NIce idea with nice graphics - unfortunately a cash grab exploiting the loyal fans of Iron Maiden.
QA is non existent in Legacy of the Bugs ... no resources ... they are all put into think tanks how to mil the players."
Mariner-1212: "Hold, I'm curious... do you enjoy the game in any way? Is there a reason you play it? I like to learn things about users, especially the ones that make it their mission to shit on everything. If you think you're the first person here to point out that there are shortcomings in the game, I'm sorry but those shoes were filled by many others over the past 2.5 years. It seems like you're on the forums an awful lot... but most of it (maybe all of it) is spent churning out negative energy.
I'm trying to figure out the point. Is your plan to cause an uprising against NF and get all users to abandon the game so it can close its doors? Or maybe you think they'll see your posts and say "Hold is right, we should do whatever he says"...? Help me understand your vision, and why you stick around. I'm not saying you don't have a reason to be upset - I think we've all been upset with the game from time to time. But it seems more like a full time job for you. What's got you so angry?"
hold: "I put a lot of time in this game (from the very start). I would love that the devs finally deliver what they are promising since like forever. My point is:
- It didn't help at all for people pointing out things. The devs simply ignored it or waited until a thread was buried and carried on like before. That approach obviously is not working
- So let's try a different approach and call the poor work of the devs out as much as possible. Only if they start to suffer enough they will change something.
The are also not playing fair anymore. So I am pointing out that people should complain to Apple that LotB is not complying to their rules and tell us the droprates. Again - once they have been called out not playing fair and people see it is a scam - change can come.
I don't care if everyone thinks I'm an asshole because I will not give in for letting those fraudsters win. I'm way too stubborn for this. But it really is enough how the devs screwing with the players and the sheep are just nodding away (pun intended).
FFS are the players of this game metal and Maiden fans or a bunch of pussies that accept to be pushed around since almost 2 years? Think about it. You want a better game - so do I. Just hoping that the devs will deliver one day really got us nowhere.
Nothing pisses me more off than scams and at the moment this bug infested crap feels like one.
It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it ... "
Mariner-1212: "That's fair. I agree that the drop rates should have been disclosed a long time ago. And I have also stopped spending money on the game because of the 'RNG' which is not really that random.
As far as content, I think they've delivered quite a bit, and this year has a lot in the pipeline. So there's a lot to look forward to - but for me to do that, I have to keep reminding myself that it's just a game that is supposed to be a fun way to spend downtime, and to enjoy immersing ourselves in the Maiden universe. Expectations are through the roof because of the potential we all see... but as many already have realized, this game is best enjoyed when you realize HOW to play the game with NF.
Change expectations. Ignore the 'special' souls. Assume that drop rates are absolute shit, because they always are. Know that going in, and don't waste your resources. If you end up with a great toon, then you can use it to compete... and if not, then you can't - so enjoy the free time. If NF wanted everyone to play in the arena and have an enjoyable experience, they would have made one Lilith guaranteed to every player right out of the gate, and they would make it easier to get toons that allow you to compete. Or better yet, it wouldn't require a small subset of toons to compete.
Disclosing drop rates doesn't solve anything, really. You know from how many souls you've opened what the drop rates are for you. The only thing that would make a difference to most players is to fix the drop rates, so everyone has a chance to land the toons to compete equally - and that's not the business model. If they're essentially telling you to play less by not giving you new toys to play with, then listen to them and play less."
hold: "I get all that. But if you are nagging for money all the time as they do with their "events" the players could at least expect some QA or a mainly bug free game. I really would love to know what they are smoking in the Nodding Ivory Tower regarding their bug management or their roadmap.
I don't use Navigator myself (still using Grim Reaper for farming) but anyone with a brain would ask by now:
- Who was the genius that put time and effort into nerfing Navigator instead of improving the game in the areas that really need improvement?
Whoever is "improving" the AI should be punished to do bug fixing for the next 12 months as she/he clearly has not as much clue as she/he thinks.
Just a mainly bug free game would be the biggest improvement ..."
Liebhild: "That is the reason, why I would like to see the odds and I would say also the reason why we wont see them."
hold: "I definitely want to see them and that's why everyone should report to Apple that this game is not complying with their rules. It doesn't matter if the game will improve or not but for the first time since the start the players can force some change - or at least will know that they have been screwed all along."
Roadkillsuperman: "Well stated Mariner.
As a long term player, I have spent money on occasion as a thank you. I have learned not to gamble my cash on “event souls”.
I did make the mistake of gambling my ironite on Lillith and lost. However, I am not going to go on a tirade as I knew it was a poor gamble.
It is the constant stream of negativity that keeps me from participating here. If I was really this angry with the game, I would stop playing."
scott-5496: "The game seems to rely heavily on RNG and that is the problem with all aspects - some are 'gamblers' and others are not. I has a massive store of ironite but only did 20 light souls (less than half what I had) as I do like a flutter every now and again but I also like to know what i am getting as well. For me if the devs know or feel that a new character is going to be a big winner or want from most then I think they need to do events where a target can be reached to get said character.
RNG is the core of the game though so not sure hwo they could change that too much unless they look at a clean slate approach to how the game works and pays for itself - it must work for them surely or they would change it? They have to make money for the game to last/work/develp/expand.
I liek other are seeing some postive changes and monthly events are a good approach and I am sure they will develop and improve over time but really is it maybe just a few hundred players who are doing all the events maybe? I would love to know the weekly average play numbers for the game. If folk are not doing a lot of PVP which is really the only thing of interest other than collecting and hoarding resources (which I try to do) then what we have is a wait for new modes and areas to play in and I am very keen to see this happen.
I rarly get luck on RNG pulls - my 'success' comes from grinding most days and building up resources but I know I cannot really compete for top 50 much as not got the time and with my win rates dropping like a rock recently it becomes less of a pull to play PVP though to be honest I am caring less about losses (or trying to) as there are just some teams that kill me most times while others a 'weaker' team with RNG in its side can also kill me.
still like the game a lot and play it a lot (grinding mostly) btu just not got the need to go top 50 every week - it just is not worth the time for me as the prizes are of no real interest to me as i have all the eternity and trooper toons now and just get sacrifice fodder from PVP (plus a few souls etc).
I really am just looking forward to new content and modes to be honest.....and a fairer challenge based way of getting new toons as opposed to RNG hell with souls. No SSE for me (he is a pain to kill with the right team) and no Lilliths yet and still waiting on an Eda, Warlord and a few others (which is fine).
The devs are a small team and I prefer to be positive as I can be with them - I do just wish though that they could stress test their updates a bit more. I am not going to haul them over the coals - they are I am sure trying their best in a small team of folk to keep a global game moving forward and trying to keep us all happy at the same time. None of that is easy I am sure and in the end of it al I stil love Eddie and Maiden and really that is it for me - my favourite band of all time in game - I do not need much else to play this and I guess they know that about a lot of us on here!
Still to get my Aberdeen tickets for the tour but not sold out yet so I think I will spend some money on that as I know what I am going to get there.....plus a t-shirt!"
hold: "Name one thing that was a real positive and game changing improvement within the last 6 months ... dangling carrots in front of the donkey does not count.
(and if you find one compare it to the promises made by the devs)"
Mariner-1212: "Frontier coins, which brought the ability to work towards selecting a high-end character you want. A bunch of new Eddies, even if one of them was Hallowed."
hold: "Fair enough but not really game changing ... they have been introduced after players left getting 6 Beelzebub in a row (was it 6 Jofer? - btw I got half a football team of Bastions by now - I got only Bastions and the Vampire lady). For 24 weeks (almost 1/2 year) I could not even afford a Lilith ... improvement? Really? Dangling carrot for me ...
Eddies are carrots as well and don't count"
slauki: "let's extend the period to 12 months please
awesome:
-arena
-sacrifice
- fragment system
-constant events (immortal event, 2x chances event, pumpkin event, valentines hearts)
- gold became usefull
- (BNW) playing the first times was awesome
- more toons became usefull in arena and it's better balanced now (aside liliths)
worst thing in the last 12 months:
- CYBORG MONDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
hold: "Hmmm ... OK ... but we have a standstill in the last 6 months. And I do agree with you that I was a bit cheeky here as I really really enjoyed the first half 2017. But again - to much sugar up the arses of the devs and we end up where we are now. Standstill, horrible cash grabs, worst droprates since a long time, no transparency and worst of it all NO f*cking QA and NO bugfixing (quite the opposite).
worst thing in the last 12 months I would call:
- No QA
- No testing of updates
- No bugfixing
- Bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs and more bugs ... and some old bugs
I am happy to be the arsehole or the devil's advocate here but there is absolutely no reason to defend what's going at the moment. As long as the players don't make that clear - nothing will change. Why should it?"
Askora: "Last year, PvP was introduced, sacrifice, hidden locations changed to skull quests and now open once a day, a lot of new characters, new talismans, all kinds of events (many which guarantee a character), missions, tabs for different teams, frontier coins and eternal and trooper characters, bnw, etc.
A lot has been added, even if it's not as quick as we'd like you're fooling yourself if you think nothing has changed. Are they still dangling a carrot? Of course their goal is to keep people engaged in the game and investing in the game. Businesses kind of need to make money to survive, simple economics.
As far as drop rates, I think they should share them or at least make a post explaining why they shouldn't have to. It doesn't change them and anyone who's been playing for a while knows they suck.
Bugs have always been there. The game breaking ones are the ones that to me are the most critical. Passives and skills not working right are not game breaking. Crashing constantly, people losing points on wins, etc are the ones that need to take precedent. Hopefully, despite the issues it's introduced, the recent fix to correct some reversed logic helps to improve the skill bugs. No doubt it'll take a little bit to sort out the skills that were coded against the bad logic, but once it's done then moving forward it should be less often that new skills introduce new issues."
slauki: "man, you have many fair points. i also just realized there was NOTHING groundbreaking in the last 8-9 months, nothing. and i think we need also guys who point this things out in a more direct way, as long as everything stays civilized. despite that all i hope for the best and i think things will get better due to the tour ahead....but well only time can tell..."
hold: "Please don't take that personal but you are defending the devs here for their absolutely shit coding or management of bugs or non existing QA. After 1,5 years of development some of the bugs within the game are pathetic.
I understand that coding is done by humans and they make mistakes - but not in EVERY SINGLE UPDATE and the bugs they are introducing are not minor glitches. It's up to every person how long to accept this behaviour and nobody has to play the buggy game. I do understand that. But as a person who would love to see that game improve - personally I have been patient long enough I think.
How about the devs challenge themselves a bit with something similar to this (input welcome): every new major bug that comes with an update and is discovered in a special "found the bug thread" they give X ironite or X souls or X to every single player ... could that improve the poor coding?"
Askora: "I'm not a professional coder, but I do know how to write a little. LOTB has a lot of code. If they just found a mistake in the core logic, that could have been causing a lot of issues. So, I'm all for giving a chance to see if things don't improve from that fix.
Something else to consider is we don't know that the programmers working now are all the same as the original group. I can assure you that anyone new coming in requires a fair amount of time to get familiar with the code and that it can be a nightmare chasing bugs in someone else's poorly documented code."
Patrice-1201: "very true, a lot of good things in a year this game has evolved so much so thanks Dev for this!"
Ironstyle: "I second this. Other games do this, why not NF? I know we had that free 150 ironite, or however much it was, but you had to get the code from Facebook. It should have been automatically given to us when we logged in the game, not hidden away where most people won't find it.
Anyway, thanks, Hold, for being the asshole we need speaking up on these issues. More of us should. As much as the devs have given us since the game launched (and I am grateful) there has been a huge lack in anything super significant. Mainly, new story content. Almost any other game out there that's similar releases new story content in a timely manner. Oh, and I like how you stick to your narrative. The Q&A thing would be really nice."
Yup: "I'm gonna call bullshit here......
Yeah things may have taken a HUGE leaps forward 9-10-11 months ago.. great for you. That means doodle-squat to probably more than half the people playing this "game". That dose of heroin felt great last year... doesn't do much for me today though.
I wasn't around a year ago... so in my time...
- constant events (immortal event, 2x chances event, pumpkin event, valentines hearts)
- New toons
- New talismans
- Frontier coins
- Satellite 15
- Relics
So... really nothing really new except characters or ways to get stuff. You simply can't equate what happened 9-10-11 months ago with what's happened the past 6 months. The goal of any money-seeking "game" should be to entice new players to stick around while also keeping long-standing players interested. Players are going to come and go. That's inevitable.
Since I started playing the ONLY new stuff I've seen are characters and talismans, well now relics.. that's it. And each month more and more and more time is being asked to reach achievements. I mean to hit that 400 cosmos battles in the last event I had to play pretty much every second I could over the course of a week. That's a RIDICULOUS amount from time to ask from users. TO hit the current daily ironite reward I need to ensure I play as much as possible daily.. again too much of an ask for most people. And then they change the BEST Eddie for farming so that even MORE time is needed.
Events are either becoming complete time sucking shit holes that are nearly impossible to reach. Or paced decently and people on the forums bitch about the month being "boring". If you want something NEW then you should NOT be focusing on events. Let the events die a bit in favor of dev time on actual new content. I imagine Devs are caught trying to satisfy the "since the beginning" forum members while also trying to create events that new players can enjoy. Frankly the people who have been playing this for a year SHOULD BE A BIT BORED by it. They SHOULD be hitting event achievements rather quickly and be left with nothing (special) to do until the next event. Because the stuff you seem to want means the people who haven't been playing for a year are hosed. I'd wager there are FAR more players with less than 6 months under their belt. It honestly amazes me that I have every Eddie.. I think 99.9% of the native 5 star toons.. most with full powered talismans.. and a whole lot with maxed skill shards.. yet the time it takes me to hit some event achievement is still ridiculously long. Shouldn't things get EASIER to achieve with the better characters?
Do I want new content? Hell yes. But I'm certain the devs MUST know that its needed by now. I merely hope their definition of "content" isn't more characters and talismans. Sadly the while Lillith thing has me wondering. I'd be fine with no new characters or talismans (or even events) for a month if it meant Secret Planet is released the following month.
(And I don't feel the Lilliths are imbalanced at all - neither does my arena defense tab. You WANTED a counter to PI.. you got it.. now you're complaining about it.)."
hold: "True ... but don't punish the players because it's certainly not their fault. If my company f*cks it up I try to keep the customer happy. Well at least in my universe of fair play. As a customer I'm not interested who is responsible for the mess and I agree that cleaning badly documented code from others is more than a pain in the ass ... but as a customer I don't want to be double screwed for mistakes I didn't make. That's unfortunately the case right now."
Yup: "I think a more reasonable compromise would be a MONTHLY or Bi-MONTHY events rather than weekly events. So every 2 weeks there was something new and the time needed to reach an achievement could be more reasonable for most people, while also not sucking up so much dev time.
And change Navigator Eddie back please."
slauki
03-14-2018, 07:23 PM
i'd prefer events three times a week. they already said, that creating those doesn't suck up much dev time at all...and i have no reason to doubt that...
the problem with LOTB might be that they outsource new content to cheaper devs in india or ukraine or somewhere else. something like that was stated a while ago from them. so they have not the full control over new content.
but creating events is easy for them as it seems, so it would be just boooooring to play two weeks without events. man even 3 days only farmin poweslave is just a pain...
as every player i'd love to see more content. i just cannot understand why we don't get someting like the FOTD level once a month. it was possible in 10/16 why not now....this would be great mini content on a monthly basis...i feel this is the main problem with the game. it's stalled for a while now.... one freaking level once per month, come on guys this should be doable!
ps: hold you are really a stubborn mofo :D :D :D no offense ofc
Fully agree as everybody can decide to take part or not.
But transparency (fair play) and less bugs are needed ...
ps: hold you are really a stubborn mofo :D :D :D no offense ofc
non taken ... I haven't even started yet ... :cool:
FOTD???? For those who have no clue what that is???
I'm not opposed to the frequency of events. But as someone that's been playing for 6 months with maxed characters.. I HATE that it takes me the ENTIRE allotted time to complete the event. It's never a matter of "do XX damage to Wrath in the area" or "Upgrade a Their Talisman to 5 stars". The event achievements are ALWAYS "throw this amount of time into the 'game'" That's what I'd like see changed. Events with more mission-style achievements rather than suck-up-my-free-time-based achievements.
Amarthir
03-14-2018, 07:34 PM
Fear of the Bark lmao
slauki
03-14-2018, 07:42 PM
FOTD???? For those who have no clue what that is???
it was a special level once NF took over the game from roadhouse (october 2016).
fear of the dark was open during helloween in 3 different difficulites playable for 10sot. it was really cool to grind something new for a few days. just a bloody shame we didn't get this again this helloween, since the level was created anyway...but they had "technical difficulties" to implement it for some reasons...as said one of these levels once per month while waiting for new stuff would calm many guys. and it cannot be that hard...
FOTD???? For those who have no clue what that is???
That was actually a really nice little extra level where FodD Eddie was introduced. A Halloween level for the first Halloween after the game was started. I also don't understand why it was taken completely out of the game.
Fun Fact: Back in the day they introduced a bug that fury of FotD killed himself if he was healing himself too much. This is one of the issues that could have been found out just autofarming the level for about 2 runs ... you see why I am ranting about no QA in the game since forever?
Well, now that would be cool. A random short time level that's disappears after a period of time. Honestly... pushing something like that... well heck.. that could be a complete game changer if it happened once every month or two.
ps: hold you are really a stubborn mofo :D :D :D no offense ofc
btw: A company tried to screw me over on a warranty issue and thought they get away with it ... it took me 4 months and every single day I repeated the issue on their Twitter and Facebook page. But I was in the right and I won.
If I may quote Ghandi here: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
slauki
03-14-2018, 08:06 PM
. well heck.. that could be a complete game changer if it happened once every month or two.
bingo!!! cannot understand why this isn't implemented so far....most of us would be much more happiy with the game, and they would be more willing to spend ironite to refill endlessly too i guess. this would disguise the lack of new content pretty well...my best guess is they cannot do it on their own, since they have not enough manpower for that....
and hold is very right about the lack of QA. not sure if they test at all, since many bugs are very obvious if you play 2 runs with a certain char...in fact we are betatesters since the game was lunched...i love the "name the bug and get rewards" idea btw. that would be a good way to go. in this case they would owe us a TON of rewards for naming broken shit for years now...
Uhm.. Adobe doesn't reward beta testers ... I would not anticipate NF doing that.
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 09:23 PM
bingo!!! cannot understand why this isn't implemented so far....most of us would be much more happiy with the game, and they would be more willing to spend ironite to refill endlessly too i guess. this would disguise the lack of new content pretty well...my best guess is they cannot do it on their own, since they have not enough manpower for that....
and hold is very right about the lack of QA. not sure if they test at all, since many bugs are very obvious if you play 2 runs with a certain char...in fact we are betatesters since the game was lunched...i love the "name the bug and get rewards" idea btw. that would be a good way to go. in this case they would owe us a TON of rewards for naming broken shit for years now...
If I’m remembering right wasn’t there an issue with people being able to access that level after the event was over. I never succeeded in doing it myself, but I seem to remember hearing about it. I wonder if whatever happened there is what prevented them from doing it again.
Hold, I think the negativity is warranted. I stopped complaining, because nothing was changing. I gave up, and I barely play the game at the moment. I got tired of sounding like a broken record. Bug fixes, new content, a way to speed up trooper use. All of these things have been “in the works” for far too long. I would like to see these things get as much attention as character tuning.
If I’m remembering right wasn’t there an issue with people being able to access that level after the event was over. I never succeeded in doing it myself, but I seem to remember hearing about it. I wonder if whatever happened there is what prevented them from doing it again.
Hold, I think the negativity is warranted. I stopped complaining, because nothing was changing. I gave up, and I barely play the game at the moment. I got tired of sounding like a broken record. Bug fixes, new content, a way to speed up trooper use. All of these things have been “in the works” for far too long. I would like to see these things get as much attention as character tuning.
It's not possible anymore to access that level. It was fixed a while ago.
That's the issue. If one player sounds like a broken record she/he will be ignored. A united effort could be the way forward. I'm already thinking about how to get an united open letter to the band itself just to find out if they are aware what poor quality the devs are delivering (except graphics - they are awesome)
slauki
03-14-2018, 09:49 PM
If I’m remembering right wasn’t there an issue with people being able to access that level after the event was over. I never succeeded in doing it myself, but I seem to remember hearing about it. I wonder if whatever happened there is what prevented them from doing it again.
iirc the level was shown afterwards, not sure if it was playable too. but they had 1,5 years to fix it now, these stuff should be top priority, since everyone is craving for new content. and that would be a handy way, to provide some...many complains would be obsolete, and we could even live with all the bugs as long as we get new stuff regulary. and i'm not talking about new chars, really tired of more chars...
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 09:53 PM
It's not possible anymore to access that level. It was fixed a while ago.
That's the issue. If one player sounds like a broken record she/he will be ignored. A united effort could be the way forward. I'm already thinking about how to get an united open letter to the band itself just to find out if they are aware what poor quality the devs are delivering (except graphics - they are awesome)
I wonder how much involvement the band has with this game. If I had to guess, id say not much, but I could be wrong.
I don’t think the devs are trying to be this bad at their jobs. I think it’s just a small team with limited resources, and a bit of incompetence thrown in. It shouldn’t take 2 years to relleaee a continuation of the story mode (I know it’s not 2 yrs yet, but it’ll prob be that before we see NC).
It may be trivial, but the thing that really turned me off to the game was the runaround answer we got in response to the odds. If I can find it I’ll copy and paste it here. In a nutshell it said “we have no idea what we’re doing”. At least that’s how I read it.
Here it is
Quote Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB View Post
While I was hoping we'd have everything squared away for communicating odds in time for the start of this event, there's still some questions we're looking to have answered regarding the new guideline, so I don't have any specifics to share yet.
My original response.
I think transparency is the goal. Gaming has been heading this way for a while. It’s old news in China and Japan. I’d be more impressed if you guys would get everything out in the open, rather than trying to figure out what you have to disclose. If your reluctant to release certain information on drop rates, it looks to the player like you know they’re bad. If that’s the case, make them reasonable and release the info.
The response I got after that.
The problem is that people lose track of the fact that even free to play players who are highly engaged with the game open literally hundreds of Rare-quality souls in the span of even just one year, and the natural evolution of the game means more Ironite and more Rare-quality souls are able to be earned on an average day as time goes on. The odds are made based on those kinds of assumptions.
Don't get me wrong, I also think it's good that the industry as a whole is moving in that direction. But I also know the underlying odds of many of my competitors (either because I've worked on them, I know people who work on them, or I've found sources I find reliable enough that have datamined/crowdsourced results for the game), and the end result is most games are not far from each other, and it comes down to games that seem more generous just have other demands in their economy to make up for the perceived generosity.
That was months ago and still no odds...
I wonder how much involvement the band has with this game. If I had to guess, id say not much, but I could be wrong.
I don’t think the devs are trying to be this bad at their jobs. I think it’s just a small team with limited resources, and a bit of incompetence thrown in. It shouldn’t take 2 years to relleaee a continuation of the story mode (I know it’s not 2 yrs yet, but it’ll prob be that before we see NC).
It may be trivial, but the thing that really turned me off to the game was the runaround answer we got in response to the odds. If I can find it I’ll copy and paste it here. In a nutshell it said “we have no idea what we’re doing”. At least that’s how I read it.
If I read it right the band has a say in regards to the characters. It really doesn't matter that much.
What I want to achieve: if I have a company and would be represented that poor I would want to know and would be very pissed off. I might be wrong but in my world reputation trumps money (especially if you are not short on money)
JJJ428
03-14-2018, 10:01 PM
I don’t know why they are dragging their feet on this. Unless it’s hard to implement in game but I doubt it. I mean I highly doubt displaying the odds would change peoples minds on purchases. If you gamble you will gamble despite the odds, people know powerball is 170 million to one but how many still play that.
I don’t know why they are dragging their feet on this. Unless it’s hard to implement in game but I doubt it. I mean I highly doubt displaying the odds would change peoples minds on purchases. If you gamble you will gamble despite the odds, people know powerball is 170 million to one but how many still play that.
Because it's rigged? Can't proof that ... Highly speculative ...
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 10:05 PM
iirc the level was shown afterwards, not sure if it was playable too. but they had 1,5 years to fix it now, these stuff should be top priority, since everyone is craving for new content. and that would be a handy way, to provide some...many complains would be obsolete, and we could even live with all the bugs as long as we get new stuff regulary. and i'm not talking about new chars, really tired of more chars...
Agreed Slauki, a lot of us were pushing for event maps a long time ago. There’s that broken record thing again.
JJJ428
03-14-2018, 10:05 PM
I don’t know how or what you mean by rigged. You can say drops suck but we know that. We have dropped enough souls to get s decent idea on drops so again I wonder why so hard to reveal we kind of already know
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 10:08 PM
If I read it right the band has a say in regards to the characters. It really doesn't matter that much.
What I want to achieve: if I have a company and would be represented that poor I would want to know and would be very pissed off. I might be wrong but in my world reputation trumps money (especially if you are not short on money)
Good point and I’m sure they take thier reputation seriously. I’d sign it.
slauki
03-14-2018, 10:15 PM
I don’t know how or what you mean by rigged. You can say drops suck but we know that. We have dropped enough souls to get s decent idea on drops so again I wonder why so hard to reveal we kind of already know
nah it might be that odds are different for every one of us. every account seems to have "forbidden" chars, which simply won't drop. well this all could be weird coincidence, but i play this long enough and talk to people long enough, that's why i think this is likely. new accounts seem to have better drops too, which is okay since they have to catch up.
so the cannot reveal JJJ and slauki have 0,5% of getting a lilith while random newb guy has 3%...again, just my impression, wouldn't bet on it though...
JJJ428
03-14-2018, 10:25 PM
There is a real obvious insult in here and I don’t want to rag on the devs too much but I would think making certain drops better for certain people would be way harder to code then a soul has same % for all. What part of all the bugs makes you think they could put together something so complicated.
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 10:34 PM
There is a real obvious insult in here and I don’t want to rag on the devs too much but I would think making certain drops better for certain people would be way harder to code then a soul has same % for all. What part of all the bugs makes you think they could put together something so complicated.
I doubt they would code it so complicated too, but on the other hand, I’ve seen and experienced first hand what Slauki’s talking about, so I don’t know what to think about that
I do think the drop rates were lowered about 6-8 months ago. I have no numbers or data to back it up. It’s just a gut feeling and I might be way off base. But drops for me have been so bad for so long, it’s just depressing dropping souls. Which is another reason I barely play the game anymore.
slauki
03-14-2018, 10:41 PM
There is a real obvious insult in here and I don’t want to rag on the devs too much but I would think making certain drops better for certain people would be way harder to code then a soul has same % for all. What part of all the bugs makes you think they could put together something so complicated.
i talked with a buddy on mine who is more knowleged in this topic, he said it would be easy doable if i understood him right. like make souls drop all chars aside xyz and xyz are randomly selected for every account. this would also explain, why they didn't reveal the odds yet. and they seem to refuse to talk about it too...
anyway, i'm pretty sure drops got better in the past few months, since in the beginning we could hardly drop any premium chars...
MrFreeze
03-14-2018, 10:49 PM
anyway, i'm pretty sure drops got better in the past few months, since in the beginning we could hardly drop any premium chars...
Really? I guess they’ve always been pretty bad. It’s been really bad on my account for quite awhile now. I couldn’t even tell you who the last 5* that dropped for me was.
JJJ428
03-14-2018, 11:16 PM
I guess it is possible from my own experience I get nomads like they are going out of style. Plus getting my 2nd prisioner two days after getting my first one after almost a year. I just think the rng is wonky vs actual code causing issues
..stuff...
No offense, but aren't you just making excuses?
If the odds are different for every player, there must be a tier system... so reveal the odds per tier.
Tier 1: 3% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 2: 1% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 3: 0.5% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 4: 0.25% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 5: 0.05% chance of 5 star drop.
Then merely disclose to the user what tier that user is on, or how tiers are factored: Tier 1: XXXXXX experience Tier 2: xxxxxx experience. Etc. Then show the user XP.
In short regardless of how drop rates are factors they COULD be disclosed. It's math. Math can be displayed.
slauki
03-14-2018, 11:25 PM
I guess it is possible from my own experience I get nomads like they are going out of style. Plus getting my 2nd prisioner two days after getting my first one after almost a year. I just think the rng is wonky vs actual code causing issues
i have read that sooooo many times man...one example from my experience...it took me 1,5 years to get acotd. i finally got him during valentines event and guess what i got 2 in 5 minutes. no bullshit. this story is so common that it's most likely no coincidence.
once you are allowed to drop a char, he will drop more often...it's something like that...
i have read that sooooo many times man...one example from my experience...it took me 1,5 years to get acotd. i finally got him during valentines event and guess what i got 2 in 5 minutes. no bullshit. this story is so common that it's most likely no coincidence.
once you are allowed to drop a char, he will drop more often...it's something like that...
Meh.. not sure.. I've only ever seen 1 VHE. And I've seen, I think, eery other character at least twice (except W, A, and S Lillith at the moment).
slauki
03-14-2018, 11:32 PM
No offense, but aren't you just making excuses?
If the odds are different for every player, there must be a tier system... so reveal the odds per tier.
Tier 1: 3% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 2: 1% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 3: 0.5% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 4: 0.25% chance of 5 star drop
Tier 5: 0.05% chance of 5 star drop.
Then merely disclose to the user what tier that user is on, or how tiers are factored: Tier 1: XXXXXX experience Tier 2: xxxxxx experience. Etc. Then show the user XP.
In short regardless of how drop rates are factors they COULD be disclosed. It's math. Math can be displayed.
hard to interpret an excuse there...
anyway, take my example player 1 can drop all chars at a normal rate only chars XYZ are way less likely (random 5* picks VHE for you and ACOTD for me). player 2 can drop all chars only ABC are way less likely (other random 5* picks). are you going to expose that? if so how are you going to do that?
every player would need to have an individual window, which is impossible to implement...
So you are suggesting that the drop rate code is so specific and so encompassing that each and every player gets their own special form of drop rate? So when a new player picks up the game, the devs must add that player and create him/her their own drop rate as well? Are you seriously presenting that as a possibility?
hard to interpret an excuse there...
anyway, take my example player 1 can drop all chars at a normal rate only chars XYZ are way less likely (random 5* picks VHE for you and ACOTD for me). player 2 can drop all chars only ABC are way less likely (other random 5* picks). are you going to expose that? if so how are you going to do that?
every player would need to have an individual window, which is impossible to implement...
The ENITRE POINT of Apple's guidelines are YES. You MUST expose that. Players must know the rates. If in the quest to get people to spend you created a drop system that is is inherently convoluted and weighted, you STILL must expose that. It's not the players fault you are trying to tip the scales nefariously in your direction. The purpose of exposing the guidelines is to STOP such behavior on the part of developers.
And it's not 'impossible" to show me my drop rates on, say the, gear/settings screen.
Mariner-1212
03-15-2018, 01:11 AM
So you are suggesting that the drop rate code is so specific and so encompassing that each and every player gets their own special form of drop rate? So when a new player picks up the game, the devs must add that player and create him/her their own drop rate as well? Are you seriously presenting that as a possibility?
That's oversimplifying it, but in a sense, that's what I say is happening. Not a round table of devs selecting manually who drops what, but more of an automated pull towards specific toons that can be swayed further based on several different factors. Not going to get into it all, but I can say two things - first, the odds are not equal for each player on every character. And that's actually a fine model, so long as it doesn't break... which I think sometimes it can. Second, the game is structured to appeal to the collector, and what does a collector often do when they finish their collection?
But that still would not preclude the disclosure of my odds of getting a Lillith drop during the event. If you're correct and they may not be the same as your odds, even if that's the case.. where are the odds?
It's terribly interesting to me how users are making excuses for the lack of disclosure. When the entire point is transparency for the user! To ensure the user isn't being taken advantage of. It's like voting against your own self-interests.
"Yes officer, he punched me square in the face and broke my nose.. but he only did it because he loves me...."
I, for one, am a bit tired of guessing why nothing's been disclosed.
Jofer16
03-15-2018, 05:09 AM
I see the "derailing excuse" in the concerning thread as an attempt to silence players that speak up or at least to try to "break the resistence" ... but I won't be silent andy longer and took the effort to create a new thread that the discussion can continue here.
Why I see it that way? The concerning thread wasn't created by the devs and was of course another major f*ckup for no reason.
That's what we've got so far (without the quotes so it may be a bit confusing but the attempt to silence the criticism that way will not work this time):
hold: "Devs: "Booohoooo we would love to push new content out faster but our resources are limited ... *cry*"
... resources are put into things that aren't broken to break it.
With every update this scam and the guys calling the shots are less credible. NIce idea with nice graphics - unfortunately a cash grab exploiting the loyal fans of Iron Maiden.
QA is non existent in Legacy of the Bugs ... no resources ... they are all put into think tanks how to mil the players."
Mariner-1212: "Hold, I'm curious... do you enjoy the game in any way? Is there a reason you play it? I like to learn things about users, especially the ones that make it their mission to shit on everything. If you think you're the first person here to point out that there are shortcomings in the game, I'm sorry but those shoes were filled by many others over the past 2.5 years. It seems like you're on the forums an awful lot... but most of it (maybe all of it) is spent churning out negative energy.
I'm trying to figure out the point. Is your plan to cause an uprising against NF and get all users to abandon the game so it can close its doors? Or maybe you think they'll see your posts and say "Hold is right, we should do whatever he says"...? Help me understand your vision, and why you stick around. I'm not saying you don't have a reason to be upset - I think we've all been upset with the game from time to time. But it seems more like a full time job for you. What's got you so angry?"
hold: "I put a lot of time in this game (from the very start). I would love that the devs finally deliver what they are promising since like forever. My point is:
- It didn't help at all for people pointing out things. The devs simply ignored it or waited until a thread was buried and carried on like before. That approach obviously is not working
- So let's try a different approach and call the poor work of the devs out as much as possible. Only if they start to suffer enough they will change something.
The are also not playing fair anymore. So I am pointing out that people should complain to Apple that LotB is not complying to their rules and tell us the droprates. Again - once they have been called out not playing fair and people see it is a scam - change can come.
I don't care if everyone thinks I'm an asshole because I will not give in for letting those fraudsters win. I'm way too stubborn for this. But it really is enough how the devs screwing with the players and the sheep are just nodding away (pun intended).
FFS are the players of this game metal and Maiden fans or a bunch of pussies that accept to be pushed around since almost 2 years? Think about it. You want a better game - so do I. Just hoping that the devs will deliver one day really got us nowhere.
Nothing pisses me more off than scams and at the moment this bug infested crap feels like one.
It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it ... "
Mariner-1212: "That's fair. I agree that the drop rates should have been disclosed a long time ago. And I have also stopped spending money on the game because of the 'RNG' which is not really that random.
As far as content, I think they've delivered quite a bit, and this year has a lot in the pipeline. So there's a lot to look forward to - but for me to do that, I have to keep reminding myself that it's just a game that is supposed to be a fun way to spend downtime, and to enjoy immersing ourselves in the Maiden universe. Expectations are through the roof because of the potential we all see... but as many already have realized, this game is best enjoyed when you realize HOW to play the game with NF.
My man! Someone’s gotta carry the torch after myself, Silentknight, Gmac, Canyptian, Nicko, Enti, Davemurray, Blackbolt, etc, etc, etc, quit. Only the zombies left, sometimes I wonder if it’s just NF paid vaginas propping this game up, these fanboys seem suspect, or just super unintelligent. any intelligent mind would follow the founding fathers suit. Godspeed to you for fighting the good fight! Iron Maiden’s name has been shit on by NF, until that’s fixed the game will be played by sheep, fix it and the wolves shall return.
I guess it is possible from my own experience I get nomads like they are going out of style. Plus getting my 2nd prisioner two days after getting my first one after almost a year. I just think the rng is wonky vs actual code causing issues
This ... I waited over a year for my Prisoner (got him of course after the needed nerf but unusable because bugged as f*ck) ... within a month (I think) I got a second one.
Didn't get the Gunner Rescuer lady forever ... suddenly I got her multiple times.
Still waiting for a Nomad (that other people get like mad) or an AoF ... can't complain about Angels as I had the blue and the green multiple times.
Taking the numbers from other players into account - I could all be a very strange coincidence ... but it certainly smells ...
... until that’s fixed the game will be played by sheep, fix it and the wolves shall return.
Could be intentional ... chase the wolves away to control the sheep ... but that is of course speculation as I can't proof that.
slauki
03-15-2018, 07:35 AM
But that still would not preclude the disclosure of my odds of getting a Lillith drop during the event. If you're correct and they may not be the same as your odds, even if that's the case.. where are the odds?
It's terribly interesting to me how users are making excuses for the lack of disclosure. When the entire point is transparency for the user! To ensure the user isn't being taken advantage of. It's like voting against your own self-interests.
"Yes officer, he punched me square in the face and broke my nose.. but he only did it because he loves me...."
I, for one, am a bit tired of guessing why nothing's been disclosed.
man not sure why it's so difficult...it's no excuse at all, it's just a possible explanation. we all want to see the odds and we are all angry that they didn't reveal them yet, despite the apple rules.
so there has to be a reason behind it. it's just an analysis with possible reasons, no excuse at all.
Because users speculating is nothing more than a method of stalling.. even if unintentional. If the conversation continually revolves around the guessing and speculation the the devs can sit back and let users be distracted by that. Notice how NONE of the devs have explained why no odds have been displayed yet. Their last input on the matter was what? A month ago?
slauki
03-15-2018, 08:07 AM
Because users speculating is nothing more than a method of stalling.. even if unintentional. If the conversation continually revolves around the guessing and speculation the the devs can sit back and let users be distracted by that. Notice how NONE of the devs have explained why no odds have been displayed yet. Their last input on the matter was what? A month ago?
yeah that's why the forum is on fire recently. i cannot imagine them ignoring this issue much longer, that's why i like such discussions. hold wrote to apple, i did and prolly some others did it too. it's unethical and the customers have the right to know what they can expect, period. no excuse for not providing that, BUT there have to be reasons behind this, and that is interesting to me as well...
Because users speculating is nothing more than a method of stalling.. even if unintentional. If the conversation continually revolves around the guessing and speculation the the devs can sit back and let users be distracted by that. Notice how NONE of the devs have explained why no odds have been displayed yet. Their last input on the matter was what? A month ago?
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. If you don't keep threads like this alive the problem will be buried as so many times before. That is stalling. Bringing it up over and over again means the issue doesn't get buried and will be exposed to any new visitor to the forum. If only a small percentage complains to Apple we will get the drop rates revealed - it's inevitable. For the first time ever we have some leverage (apart from not throwing money after them for delivering poor quality) - so USE IT!
The devs have a history in not answering to things that are awkward for them. So they hope it will go away eventually. That's how they won every single time. As I said before - other approaches have gotten us nowhere - so let's try a different one. :)
When slauki stated that "he just realized that there was nothing grounbreaking for 8-9 months" - things like that were my intentions all along - the devs sang lullabies for months to keep the players asleep - not happy - asleep (and diverting from the real problems ). It seems like a few are waking up now. Good! \m/
I agree.. bring it up often and repeatedly... but the speculating as to why there's been no disclosure isn't really helpful. but that's my opinion. There's no valid reason the formulas used to determine drop rates can't be shared.. other than... "oh crap they'll see we've been screwing them all along."
EnricoPalazzo
03-15-2018, 09:37 AM
Hey hold, first of all, thank you for being the pain in the ass and persisting in point out what is clearly wrong with this game!
Regarding the odds, I can only echo slauki and everyone else hunting for characters... once you're allowed a certain char, it will drop like mad, we have all seen that. No way that this is random, the chances for characters are not set in granite.
Not for all accounts equally and not for each account over time.
I saw this also occurring with other drops.
For example, I had runs of "good luck" (that's what I thought the first time) for Skill Shard drops, topping out three weeks ago with 3 drops in rapid succession for caching in Satellite 15, then Talisman Cache and immediately followed by Talisman Hoard, and not a single Skill Shard dropping for me since then.
The game's drop calculator seems to be tailored towards getting people to spend money when they feel they are in luck, and to keep them hunting for that one toon that is missing in their collection.
It's way more complicated than assigning one single value to each character and let some RNG do it's job for every soul that is opened.
My best guess on the observed behaviour since July 2016 is that all goodies (characters, shards, runes etc.) have a base chance which is more or less static. Player accounts also have base chances that are more fluid, computed on their character roster and subject to raises or drops for periods of time. Both the character and player chance values are then multiplied for every drop.
The odds have not been revealed for two reasons:
1: NF does not dare to reveal that they can manipulate the odds at will
2: NF does not have a clue as to how this works in detail, as they did not design this scheme and are only using it as well as they can
Either way, it will be VERY hard to compute the actual chances based on this logic, so my guess is this will not happen anytime soon.
Anyone who is gambling with real money should stop and think again what he's getting into.
Regarding QA and pre-release testing:; don't get me started on that. I'm a developer myself, and if I ever dared to release something without proper testing and this bugged, I could start looking for another job (probably at NF).
slauki
03-15-2018, 09:44 AM
would really be about time, that devs leviathan or someone else give us solid information about this topic. players have the feeling they are getting tricked and screwed, and by being stiff and quiet you only raise more suspicion. this is a very serious concern... a more offensive and proactive information policy would be smarter, to calm things down imo....it won't be possible to sit this out this time i fear...
... but the speculating as to why there's been no disclosure isn't really helpful. but that's my opinion.
Personally I find it very interesting what others think how the mechanics work here ... I like to read it ...
Enrico brings up a good point.
I guess other than the "oh crap, they'll see how we've been screwing them all along." reason.... The other valid reason may be "Oh crap, they'll realize we have no freakin clue how it works."
would really be about time, that devs leviathan or someone else give us solid information about this topic. players have the feeling they are getting tricked and screwed, and by being stiff and quiet you only raise more suspicion. this is a very serious concern... a more offensive and proactive information policy would be smarter, to calm things down imo....it won't be possible to sit this out this time i fear...
It's totally up to us if the devs will be able to sit it out or not ... :cool:
And Apple ... as soon as they deny the first update (thanks to our reports and complaints) NF has to act or the game will die.
Roadmap:
1. Get the droprates
2. Take it from there ...
MrFreeze
03-15-2018, 11:45 AM
Something else that’s been brought up multiple times in the last year and a half...compensation for NFs errors. Most games give out a bit of in game currency when they screw up. NF has done it a few times in the past, but not lately that I’m aware of. And the Facebook link thing doesn’t count in my opinion. It’s sad that forum members have to track these gifts down and post them on the forums. Why aren’t the devs posting them on the forums? And why does it even have to be a link? It could be directly distributed to the players. I know this because it was done a couple times at the very beginning.
I logged into FFDOO this morning to what good devs do when the screw up...
4413
I didn’t even notice any of these bugs and I get 100 gems. NF, take notes please.
Edit: I suppose we’d all be ironite millionaires by now though if they compensated for every bug in the game. It would have put them out of business.
slauki
03-15-2018, 12:22 PM
Something else that’s been brought up multiple times in the last year and a half...compensation for NFs errors. Most games give out a bit of in game currency when they screw up. NF has done it a few times in the past, but not lately that I’m aware of. And the Facebook link thing doesn’t count in my opinion. It’s sad that forum members have to track these gifts down and post them on the forums. Why aren’t the devs posting them on the forums? And why does it even have to be a link? It could be directly distributed to the players. I know this because it was done a couple times at the very beginning.
Edit: I suppose we’d all be ironite millionaires by now though if they compensated for every bug in the game. It would have put them out of business.
while i agree, i don't think this is a main problem.
my main problems are (highly subjective ofc):
1. lack of new content
2. unethical business approach (disclosing odds for example)
3. time needed to play this game
4. balancing issues in order to make money --> look at point 2
5. bugs
Liebhild
03-15-2018, 12:56 PM
Another thing NF isn't answering, is the ridiculous high defense bonus. Look in the Bug reports section, lot's of the "bugs" that are reported there, come through this bonus.
It's now 3 months since Apple changed the rules. Every now and then I and others were asking for odds, nothing, not one single note.
Something else that’s been brought up multiple times in the last year and a half...compensation for NFs errors. Most games give out a bit of in game currency when they screw up. NF has done it a few times in the past, but not lately that I’m aware of. And the Facebook link thing doesn’t count in my opinion. It’s sad that forum members have to track these gifts down and post them on the forums. Why aren’t the devs posting them on the forums? And why does it even have to be a link? It could be directly distributed to the players. I know this because it was done a couple times at the very beginning.
I logged into FFDOO this morning to what good devs do when the screw up...
4413
I didn’t even notice any of these bugs and I get 100 gems. NF, take notes please.
Edit: I suppose we’d all be ironite millionaires by now though if they compensated for every bug in the game. It would have put them out of business.
Slightly off topic: If you like the very old FF games (like Gameboy style) download Stranger Things: The Game (in case you don't know it). It's a really nice little game - completey free and ad free (only at start you see the Netflix logo) with adventure and RPG elements. I played it on my Android phone and didn't experience any bugs ...
Another thing NF isn't answering, is the ridiculous high defense bonus. Look in the Bug reports section, lot's of the "bugs" that are reported there, come through this bonus.
It's now 3 months since Apple changed the rules. Every now and then I and others were asking for odds, nothing, not one single note.
In a way they answered that: Our AI is missing the I ...
Table has turned as Apple is cracking down on that matter since a few days. That's why it is so important that we get it to Apples attention that NF is not complying.
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