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MoonShadow
03-21-2018, 10:40 AM
Please stop this madness which is currently he Arena environment. Itís really frustrating to see such inequity, this isnít a fair competition anymore and I know that what Iím about to say, it was addressed many times before, but itís just about time to correct the things.

And Iím talking just about the HUGE defense boost that the A.I. is getting on defense, after the (stupid) addition of the relics, as I was so sure that the Arena will become unplayable for players like me, which are playing just for that darn iron coins and not for some ranks in the Arena.

Things that happen right now and it shouldnít:
- sentinel mayan priestess revenges every single damn attack, thus she had only 75% of doing that, plus sheís using and abusing from her echo talismans, attacking like hell and stealing all of the buffs.
- the same sentinel mayan priestess heals the allies even without having energy, as Visions used before the 5 power to perform Equilibrium -> cleansed the stunned priestess -> she suddenly performed healing out of nothing.
- my Visions Eddie, equipped with energy talismans, and my Alliance General, didnít stole any damn power points for 4, 5 or maybe 6 times in a row -> I couldnít heal my team as the opposed Alliance General did steal from my power points at every single of his attacks.
- sometimes I couldnít apply on the enemies any marks from the Death talismans, even after performing perfect attacks (they didn't have immunity).
- sometimes my GPD remains stunned, even if itís equipped with Angel talismans.
- purple Lilith heals fully an ally almost every turn, thus havin only a 75% chance.

And the list can continue, Iím pretty sure.

On the top of those Ė the fights are getting extremely long! I am getting more draws than ever, this is very annoying, beyond boring. The Arena was unattractive for me from the very beginning, but Iíve kept on playing. Now it pisses me off completely.

I believe that, after the addition of the Relics, the insane defense boost isnít justified anymore, as the defenses could perform better without it, so please consider removing it from defenses.

Thank you.

Sick
03-21-2018, 12:13 PM
Can I play with madness?

slauki
03-21-2018, 12:43 PM
i agree with most of the things and would like to add, this ridiculous OP liliths to the list. yeah makes sense that a char can steal aoe buffs with 4x 50% chance. at the same time this char can also give aoe immunity and make your buffs even longer....no counter possible if the right talis are equipped WTF guys, this is so stupid.
just a horrible meta we have right not and the keyword is ineqquity... the beginners are screwed, the advanced guys are bored with this longer fights and try to chase to get the chars they need just to wait for the ineviatable nerf...i bet the numbers look good for NF this week, i just fear the backswing will come pretty soon... systems tend to grow shortly before they will explode...

blade685
03-21-2018, 12:44 PM
mayan priestless is one of the biggest pain now yes with alliance general for exemple :)

Stormseye
03-21-2018, 01:17 PM
Yes please stop the Mayan Priestess. She is very out of control. Counters every single turn, goes out of turn, full heals with no POWER..the list goes on and on....

Also note the GPD with Angel talismans is immune to Seal AND he heals with only 4 power.

Of course if you want to see real OP you need to seriously look at SSE. His powers are just too much...stealing all enemies buffs AND gives them to all allies. Every single power he has is OP.

scott-5496
03-21-2018, 02:38 PM
Things are certianly much tougher in the arena at the moment - not many people I guess will be doing 90% plus win rates anymore as I am certainly not. I used to be up around the 90% mark most weeks btu now playing in the top 75 - 150 is really tough and my win rates are dropping a lot (not sure what I am just now but around 80% or so). my defence is doing a lot better due to the issues raised so there is a bit of a balance going on there as my defence was never that great before (maybe 15% or so and now closer to 25% or so).

I think there are, as mentioned, a lot of broken things in the game - healing the opposite team, SMP, SSE and to a degree the Liliths. I do not seem to have much bother with any of the Lilliths to be honest but them coupled with SSE and SMP or Visions with the right team, for me anyway, are very difficult to beat (but that might just be my laziness on changing my attack teams).

I do need to find a good team to take on Visions based teams for sure as they are my thorn just now - SSE I can just about handle most times but as ever defence AI boosts and RNG can kick my ass big time. I mean it may be that we just need to get used to it and the dropping wins (maybe not a bad thing over time) but at the moment it has been the recent changes to the meta which has been the shocker to me as it was a quick drop from the 90% wins to the high 70%s or low to mid 80%s wins.

If I drop down lists by not playing early in the week that helps a lot and wins are as they were in the mid 90s but as soon as you get near the top 150 or so it certainly gets tougher for sure.

Not sure what should change but I think fixing bugs will help a lot - get Prisoner working as he should for one. Sort out the AI boosts or simply exclude relics from PVP as others have said? So many fixes needed though I am not sure where they start and as so many of them are long standing I am not sure some of them can be fixed as the code must be too complicated to sort.

Trying to stay postive as ever but I have to agree the wins are dropping like a rock and battles are certainly longer than they ever have been.

One small thing I have noticed too is that when in PVP and you battle someone just below you on points they often get a boost I think as I sit there saying in my head please do not get X, Y and Z boost they nearly alwasys do be it first turn or extra shots or whatever it is. Certainly over the last few weeks I have noticed this enough to know that when I face a team in this situation it is going to be a pain to win regardless of what that team is usually.

It may just be time is needed to get used to lower wins - not sure until we have more time to see how things change I guess.

R1ck
03-21-2018, 03:07 PM
I really don't mind Mayan priestess, is a little annoying but I usually stun her. What is really boring is how much time is needed now to win. F*ck, they increased health by 80%, defense and MR don't know for how much but Attack and magic not so much. I think attack and magic increase in the same amount of DEF and MR, but health was also increased, so it is not balanced. When everyone have all the relics at maximum battles will last 80% more time.
Off course, for regular people who don't have time to play PVP will take months to have all relics, and in the meantime will be a pain in the a$s. This implementation only is an advantage for top few people that play PVP all the time.

Sick
03-21-2018, 03:10 PM
I think it would be a step into the right direction if both win rates (attack and defense) would somehow align with each other. We cannot expect that everybody has 90%+ win rates in attack and 25%+ in defense.

Stormseye
03-21-2018, 03:36 PM
I just think they need to remove relics from the PVP arena. At the least you need to compete against similar relic opponents. I have quite a few spread out among all my classes and my health is 34% and my scored was around 2500 and the list matched me up last night with someone who had 6500 points, 80% health relics, a ton of other relics and was running Mayan Priestess/SSE/War Lillith/Gunner Lilith....He went first did 25k damage with Lilith and SSE went two times prior to that...guy below that on the list was at 5500 needless to say I lost that battle too. Just hit refresh and went back to fighting people in my own bracket.

Kamuz24z
03-21-2018, 03:42 PM
I was having problems with the long fights but Iíve been testing new teams and I got that problem solved the Liliths are great after all theyíre 5 stars they are suppose to be good but I understand the issues of the guys who donít have the toons to counter the current Arena if you have the resources get your blue Lilith that toon can counter the other Liliths and make the fights easier.
The sentinel Mayan is been out of control for while and sheís been a pain stealing all the buffs instead of a 35% change to steal only one

scott-5496
03-21-2018, 03:43 PM
I think it would be a step into the right direction if both win rates (attack and defense) would somehow align with each other. We cannot expect that everybody has 90%+ win rates in attack and 25%+ in defense.

Indeed. I fully agree. That balance of those numbers does not work. I think it may be an aim of the devs to re balance the PVP rates a bit and we will just need to get used to it. Actually just looked at my PVP defence and it is 37% at the moment and that is higher than I have had being in the top 150 or so - it will change closer to Saturday I am sure. But for me to win around 75-80% and to have a defence of around say 20-25% is sort of logical - again as they try to re balance matching this wil alter a bit. I know that when I get my first attack list of the day it tend to have maybe 2 or three below me, a few around where I am and then maybe 3 or four a good bit higher than me. However, sometimes when I refresh the list I can get way more from below my points and only a few above. So there is something going on there as that has been like that for a while I think. Must be part of them saying 'why is scott refreshing - ok he does not want to face three or four teams so we will give him something a bit easier'? or somthing like that......

scott-5496
03-21-2018, 03:47 PM
I have yet to see or play a Magus Lillith! There are a few Warriors and a fair number of Assassin and Gunner but so far they have not been an issue at all and the Sentinal one (not seen a lot to be honest) never seem to cause a problem either but that may be just RNG/AI not using her correctly.

Reeb99
03-21-2018, 04:21 PM
The only Lilith that I think is out of whack is the red one. The others are all pretty manageable. The Sentinel Priestess is annoying, but manageable.

Seventh Son Eddie is ridiculous in every way. Too much damage considering an AOE true damage, giving allies yellow buffs way too often, it's just a nightmare to fight against if they design their team to protect him.

Stormseye
03-21-2018, 04:35 PM
Seventh Son Eddie is ridiculous in every way. Too much damage considering an AOE true damage, giving allies yellow buffs way too often, it's just a nightmare to fight against if they design their team to protect him.

The ONLY way to stop him is to keep him stunned. With Gunner Lillith at his side that can be even worse. He gives yellow buffs EVERY time. Sometimes I feel like he just creates buff out of thin air.

4424

Sponholz
03-21-2018, 05:34 PM
I will just trow you this...

THIS IS NOT PVP!!!!
This is PVE against a team put together by players!!!!

I would agree on an equal % of win/loss IF we played actual players inside the Arena, but this is not the case.

There is no strategy on the defense teams, they just do a random move according to some conditions (for example: GPD heals only if he or any teammate is with Health bellow a certain threshold).

So, this approach of buffing the defense artificially is just wrong.

An equal % of win/lose would just made most players quit arena for good.

I am only doing the daily one, and I used to play a LOT of arena matches.


... Ed.

Dank Brew
03-21-2018, 06:08 PM
I've been away for some time. Came to see if anything good has happened... I guess i'll keep on with the break. I got ZERO trooper points while I was away. Very very few of my troopers are inactive. Several weeks and NO ONE used my Eddie? Yeah fucking right. Good way to keep me away I guess.

Amarthir
03-21-2018, 07:10 PM
Weeeeelllllll if you just blocked SSE from getting effects, that cancels out like 90% of his powers just saying, the Lilith's are a blessing and a curse in many occasions obviously, but luckily with frontier coins and fragment events, it's not that hard to get the one you want. I keep hearing people talking about defense boosts but hey I never get the idea. Maybe I'm not ranked high enough to get the same problems, I dunno. I'm just waiting for them to release Necropolis Talismans so that the HP problem gets balanced out.

However, I can fully agree about the two problems regarding the GPD with Angel Talismans and the Sentinel Priestess. Revenge stealing all buffs most if not all the time can get pretty dang annoying if you don't have Perfect Immunity.

slauki
03-21-2018, 08:32 PM
if you look in the top ranks you will see a lot of teams with awesome synergies and then you can see how the liliths will kick in and why they are OP. random liliths on random defenses are no problem, just wait till enough guys figure things out, then we will have a lilith fest all over the arena...defense holds of 40-50% are just wrong, because they cause a lot of frustration. i love to see and face good defenses, but some balance has to be there... at the moments this is really just MADNESS in a bad way. my prediction is we will se players dropping like flies in pvp. take the f'n relics out and cutdown some liliths into shape....

Rain88
03-21-2018, 09:33 PM
the Liliths are great after all theyíre 5 stars they are suppose to be good

Can you name a single character from the trooper soul that is good?

edsel
03-21-2018, 10:46 PM
Yes, all four are good, especially Trooper Eddie, for Vortex

MoonShadow
03-22-2018, 09:23 AM
Thank you, guys, for your comments here, I’m sure that devs are seeing these and they’ll do something, if they’ll have the will and possibility. I just want a fair competition (I believe we all do) and I understand when I lose a game in front of a well-crafted defense or as a result of my silly mistakes, but I just cannot stand the fact of losing a game to a cheating A.I., because this is what happens right now in the Arena, a A.I. that cheats. This isn’t fair-play and it should be fixed.

I think that Slauki summarized very well the situation we have here: inequity.

Yup
03-22-2018, 09:27 AM
Can you name a single character from the trooper soul that is good?

They seem to go in waves....

Valkyrie group.. decent
"gangland" group... meh
Trooper group.. meh
Lilith group.. decent

The next 5 character group is going to be ... ???

scott-5496
03-22-2018, 11:20 AM
Yes, all four are good, especially Trooper Eddie, for Vortex

Ha ha, that was funny and so true. Trooper Eddie you would think would be a big bad beast of a toon being from the most played Maiden tune ( I imagine) but he just is not at all from what I have seen of him. Never use him or his buddies much at all. Certianly never in PVP - maybe just sometimes in PVE to see what they did. I do love the look of them though!

SSE is a the beast at the moment and Visions too is just a drawn out pain the ass to kill - I often get loses or draws vs Visions though so he is defo a pain right now for me anyway! But I am crap at this game! LOL

Stormseye
03-22-2018, 02:46 PM
To add the already list of, please excuse the expression, but complete F*&*n BS let us add :

Eda can heal now with 0 power....that's right 0 power..she also healed once with 2 power..can't wait to get one to use that ability...oh wait...

Visions Eddie can now also generate power with Take ( this one works on computer AI side only)...I watched him go from 3 power to 6, AFTER his round started, and then guess what, GPD went on a head and healed with Seal on. There was No Energy Talisman present on him. I can even accept the fact that GPD always cleanses everyone on his side every time but I only cleanse 0-1 allies. There is no excuse for the other issues though.

If you die with Seal on you are now considered Permadead and cannot be revived. This happened to my Corrupt General, not once, not twice but three times today with all matches ending in a draw because I was left facing GPD/Vision against GPD/Visions with neither of us able to kill the other.

Matches of the day so far 12
6 win
4 draw - All of these were GPD/Visions groups
2 loss

I basically just avoid any Mayan Fights to save myself the rage.

I don't mind losing to a superior AI in terms of skill, but blatant, out right cheating is really hard to take. It really pushes me away from the arena as of late and unfortunately that is really the only thing I enjoy after coming back.

T-Man
03-22-2018, 03:14 PM
Lots of bugs in this meta of the arena.
The using power abilities without enough power is driving me nuts as well. There also seems to be an issue with my team not gaining power per turn. I need to pay closer attention to this though. Maybe I missed something?

Stormseye
03-22-2018, 03:20 PM
There also seems to be an issue with my team not gaining power per turn. I need to pay closer attention to this though. Maybe I missed something?

Energy talis are the new meta, so a lot of teams are using them. They steal power 45% on perfect attacks and with the AI boost it translates to 90%. Best bet to make sure you can stun those or hope your basic attacks are enough to kill.

Yup
03-22-2018, 03:46 PM
If you die with Seal on you are now considered Permadead and cannot be revived.


You sure that's not Doom?

Stormseye
03-22-2018, 04:23 PM
You sure that's not Doom?

Positive. Val can have permadeath result from a negative effect granted by her Disruption shield but I know I was sealed because I could not Total War as it was chained.

T-Man
03-22-2018, 04:51 PM
Energy talis are the new meta, so a lot of teams are using them. They steal power 45% on perfect attacks and with the AI boost it translates to 90%. Best bet to make sure you can stun those or hope your basic attacks are enough to kill.

Even in the time of the energy meta, power moves werenít happening without enough power to use.

Where I noticed this was in a battle where I had 3 power, played my turn and put the phone down planing to
heal on my next turn. Came back to only having 3 power.

Half the time Iím doing other things while playing, and may have missed something, but I did check and No energy tals and of course no General on opposing team.

Sick
03-22-2018, 06:49 PM
Lots of bugs in this meta of the arena.
The using power abilities without enough power is driving me nuts as well. There also seems to be an issue with my team not gaining power per turn. I need to pay closer attention to this though. Maybe I missed something?

Experienced that too today. Had a draw due to that problem. I just couldn’t gain Power, not with Talis on toons, not the standard refill after each turn.

T-Man
03-22-2018, 07:57 PM
Experienced that too today. Had a draw due to that problem. I just couldn’t gain Power, not with Talis on toons, not the standard refill after each turn.

Thanks for confirming. I noticed it several times now.

Tim28213
03-22-2018, 08:42 PM
I've always struggled in arena. It's my least favorite aspect of the game, but there is incentive now to farm it. I agree that it is much harder now as well after relics. I did some serious changing things up with my team and finally have a team that is performing much better. When I built it I thought it was fairly original,
but as I hit the higher ranks (300+) I find it is similar to some other teams. More likely I got lucky and hit a combination that worked that many others already had figured out.

The point I was headed towards is that I played basically the same team for months because it worked most of the time. Relics and other changes made my previously reasonable team fail a lot so I had to change things up. Now I'm accidentally doing much better because I experimented and found something that worked better. I'm able to handle most anything now including SSE, Visions, and the pesky green mayan (hate her, but can kill her finally). I don't care about ranking so I set a single eddie defense and lose every single defense which keeps me in the middle tier so some of my recent win success is intentionally trying to stay out of the top tiers. When I get too high up in the ranks the battles take way too long. Staying in the middle makes for more reasonable opponents and battle length for me. However, I do find it ironic that it benefits me to set up for intentional losses on defense in this game rather than trying to be the best I can at all times. If I was playing for ranks and cared about that I would be much more frustrated.

I believe that many of the bugs make the arena more frustrating than it should be. I think a lot of the problems are more the bugs than specific characters seeming to be overpowered. One thing I like about this game is that for the most part there is a counter to most things. It isn't always easy to find and sadly not everyone will always have access to it though.

Yup
03-22-2018, 08:44 PM
I think once some other method of acquiring iron coins is implemented, arena participation will see a marked decline.

Askora
03-23-2018, 01:21 AM
I've always struggled in arena. It's my least favorite aspect of the game, but there is incentive now to farm it. I agree that it is much harder now as well after relics. I did some serious changing things up with my team and finally have a team that is performing much better. When I built it I thought it was fairly original,
but as I hit the higher ranks (300+) I find it is similar to some other teams. More likely I got lucky and hit a combination that worked that many others already had figured out.

The point I was headed towards is that I played basically the same team for months because it worked most of the time. Relics and other changes made my previously reasonable team fail a lot so I had to change things up. Now I'm accidentally doing much better because I experimented and found something that worked better.

Pretty cool you got an indirect benefit from the relics.