April 2018 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?9951).

[Amarthir]

Lots of positive changes here, it'll be interesting to see how this changes the current state of the game.

The Sentinel Priestess change looked horrific at first, but if it's also being fixed, then maybe it'll be an okay thing. I'm not sure about that one.

Assassin Corrupt Rescuer sounds like an interesting MVP for this update. I see alot of versatility.

Finally a fix for the Angel of Fear's passive (or so you say) hopefully it'll apply to Tailgunner Eddie's fury as well since I've seen some improper extra turns spawn from him as well.

I'm glad that Cyborg Eddie is getting a little more love this time. I really liked using him at first, but Scan and Calibrate were just bad. I'll give him another spin when this update hits.

Man, NOW trap talismans sound useful since I skipped out on them. And Purge Talismans also might be useful now that they're softly buffed.

100% Critical Strike Chance turning golden, WOW that's a change I wasn't expecting. I guess the VHE party isn't over yet right??

[OdoyleRules]

Are you referring to 'The Beast' for user play, or when running the Number of the Beast level?

[Sponholz]

Lot's of quality of life and fixes on this patch notes, another good step in the right direction!!!

Liked all the changes so far. (Trap talis changes sound awesome!)

I guess I will shard VHE after all... 100% Crit = Golden is just huge for his Fury.

... Ed.

[JJJ428]

I would like to know is Angel of Pain going to be a counter to fate talismans now. Well they activate and then angel of pain reduces to zero or will angel of pain try to reduce to zero and then they activate. Like to know what is intended before this goes live. Thanks.

[Kaz_LOTB]

Are you referring to 'The Beast' for user play, or when running the Number of the Beast level?

For "The Number of the Beast." quest in Underworld.

-Kaz

[Sponholz]

I would like to know is Angel of Pain going to be a counter to fate talismans now. Well they activate and then angel of pain reduces to zero or will angel of pain try to reduce to zero and then they activate. Like to know what is intended before this goes live. Thanks.

Well... Probably, when your team is attacking they will be up, when your team is defending they will be down. making Immortality (and partially Ascension 'double mr/def) kinda useless defense wise. (Immortality will be down when your team is on defense turn.)

When it's attacking turn for your team, then any effect will be up again.

Its gonna be something like this:

Atk - Buff up, count: 1.
Def - Buff reduced by 1 turn, count: 0 (removed).
Atk - Talis refreshes, Buff up, count: 1.
.
.
.

I suppose the effect of AoP happens before Fate tali refreshes the buff, so the "New Buff" will be active for the turn they triggered, and will be reduced on the next turn, making it a on/off/on/off pattern.

You can test (to a certain extent) this behavior with Visions on arena, just use his single target power move to steal a golden buff generated with Fate tali. they will refresh the very next turn.

... Ed.

[Yup]

Yeah the S Mayan Priestess changes looked awful..... until you read more and get to the fixes.

Glad to see EE getting a better extra turn trigger. That's one main reason I don't use him.

As other have posted, lots of good changes here. I'm jsut concerned the S Mayan Priestess may end up worse than the terrible state she's currently in :)

[Sponholz]

... Yup's reply...

I'm jsut concerned the S Mayan Priestess may end up worse than the terrible state she's currently in :)

Yeah, I think she will be even more annoying to be honest.

... Ed.

[Amarthir]

I guess we'll just have to hit her with a single hitter and hope she dies first. At least we have things like passive disable, perfect immunity, etc to neutralize her. With Perfect Immunity becoming more common things could play out differently. I'm glad they're normalizing alot of great effects, that's how you balance a game and create diversity. NOT by nerfing someone that just came out lol.

[Yup]

Are you referring to 'The Beast' for user play, or when running the Number of the Beast level?

Generally changes to the player version are for Wrath... he has a name when playable.. and just "the Beast" in NOTB.

[Kira]

Any future plans for Bastion he’s really really weak for a 5 star character he’s not useful for pve or pvp if you guys can make him a multiple hitter that will change things just like Gunner chopper and a little more power for warlord

[Demoonchild]

Hello guys!!
Great to see more tweaks and the way how NF wanted to buff characters instead of nerfing, you are doing it well...
I would want to see more love to not so useful 5 stars characters which deserves and NEEDS more love, as Witch Doctor, PDK, the assassin and warrior COTD, or even the new Sentinel LILITH, the most weak of the Lilith party...
A question here, about assassin Corrupt Rescuer passive "Lockdown" tweak, can you explain how this will work?? Description on notes is kinda unclear...

Keep on the good job guys!!

[Demoonchild]

Generally changes to the player version are for Wrath... he has a name when playable.. and just "the Beast" in NOTB.

Absolutely X2...

[slauki]

many good changes here, i like that you focus on some random toons to make them more usefull!

just two things....

1. unsure about sentinel priestess, at first i thought she will get a buff, till i read further...hope this will work out as intended...
2. i said it once and i will say it again...astras powermove which can heal block/permadeath and inflict perfect corruption is a 7 power move, not a 5 power move, would be cool if you could adjust it.i know i sound like a broken record, but come on guys, don't you agree, or don't you want to agree? you should know that i'm right here... :D

[Yup]

don't you agree, or don't you want to agree?

Nope.


:)

But she's been made irrelevant by the Liliths.

[slauki]

Nope.


:)

But she's been made irrelevant by the Liliths.

you cannot justify one broken thing with another broken thing :D

[Kamuz24z]

many good changes here, i like that you focus on some random toons to make them more usefull!

just two things....

1. unsure about sentinel priestess, at first i thought she will get a buff, till i read further...hope this will work out as intended...
2. i said it once and i will say it again...astras powermove which can heal block/permadeath and inflict perfect corruption is a 7 power move, not a 5 power move, would be cool if you could adjust it.i know i sound like a broken record, but come on guys, don't you agree, or don't you want to agree? you should know that i'm right here... :D

Yes I agree that is a 7 power move

[R1ck]

Yeah, agree

[Demoonchild]

Agree Slauki, Heal block, perfect corruption and permadeath plus AOE damage IS a 7 energy cost power move, but NF hasn't realize it yet....

[Nicko]

Hello guys!!
Great to see more tweaks and the way how NF wanted to buff characters instead of nerfing, you are doing it well...
I would want to see more love to not so useful 5 stars characters which deserves and NEEDS more love, as Witch Doctor, PDK, the assassin and warrior COTD, or even the new Sentinel LILITH, the most weak of the Lilith party...
A question here, about assassin Corrupt Rescuer passive "Lockdown" tweak, can you explain how this will work?? Description on notes is kinda unclear...

Keep on the good job guys!!

Agree DeMoon. Witch Doctor, Bastion, Sentinel Lilith...the list could go on. Sure - release new toons because that’s how they bring in income - but tweaks like the one made to Aces High Eddie a few months ago can change a zero to a hero - and a 5* toon should be a hero

[Nicko]

Nope.


:)

But she's been made irrelevant by the Liliths.

I don’t agree she’s irrelevant. Sure, some of the Lilith are great - but there’s still no way to counter the situation where energy is stolen by the team that goes first, immunity removed by VE or another buff stealer, and Perfect Corruption inflicted - along with Permadeath/healblock -all before the other team has a chance to strike. Perfect Corruption can’t be cleansed and is often applied to several toons. That’s too much power for a 4*toon.

[JJJ428]

Not to mention perfect corruption also prevents energy talismans from working. I also agree with Saluki the power move should be a 7 cost.

[Askora]

Have to agree on Astra being overpowered. Compare her to Corrupt General who has the most similar skillset. CG has 55% Chance to stun, Astra has a 58% chance with the added bonus of removing beneficial effects. CG has a 75% chance to drain fury and seal, Astra a 65% chance to inflict perfect corruption, heal block and permadeath. CG has fury, but Astra's passive protects the whole team against some of the most detrimental debuffs. She also has the advantage of doing true damage, higher damage potential as well as no penalty for using the fate talismans since she has to have 3 purple anyway. So, higher ranks and no doubt lower ranks as well, the 4 star toon is favored over the 5 star because she's overpowered.

Unrelated topic here, question concerning some possible bugs. I've had toons with angel talismans get stunned, then stay stunned and not cleanse when hit with grievous burns, is this meant to be this way? I assume it's the same reason as the harpies being stunned by the grievous burns. Hopefully if the new update doesn't bring too many issues that can be addressed. I've also had my warlord attack a toon when he was at low health using his power skill and die from? Not reflected damage as in one case it was against a GCotD, no WUR with reflect. Will try and pay closer attention to see if their is some specific scenario on that one.

[ShaneBazTe]

Really pleased with the change to Navigator Eddies Roaring Wave, should hopefully get him back to the top of the list for auto-farming. And 100% crit chance going to a golden buff is amazing for VHE. Nice work.

[Yup]

I think possibly the best news in the update is the AoF fix.. finally. So tired of the extra turns on death, on revive, on revenge, on counter, on whenever. :)

[slauki]

I think possibly the best news in the update is the AoF fix.. finally. So tired of the extra turns on death, on revive, on revenge, on counter, on whenever. :)

we have already heard it very often, that this was fixed and in fact it wasn't. so let's wait and see first....

one question about trap talis...will immunity prevent the negative effects, or will they remove buffs before negative effects are inflicted? intereting for those who are maybe willing to invest 10 mio gold....

[angelkelly]

I guess I should go ahead in pre-plan Astra funeral. Since she will become the next useless toon on the market.
R.I.P Angel, your days would not be forgotten.

[Yup]

one question about trap talis...will immunity prevent the negative effects, or will they remove buffs before negative effects are inflicted? intereting for those who are maybe willing to invest 10 mio gold....

If it works like counter.. buffs are stolen, then the buff acts. So even if you steal counter, you still get the counterstrike. From what I've seen thus far with these, that how the Trap have been operating.... buffs get stolen.. but get that dying action before it's gone. So.. action.. then stun.


I guess I should go ahead in pre-plan Astra funeral. Since she will become the next useless toon on the market.

That's my point.. the only reason she is useful is because of the power cost of 5. Bump that up and she's nowhere near as useful and combined with all the energy stealing going on any more... she's dead weight quickly.

[slauki]

That's my point.. the only reason she is useful is because of the power cost of 5. Bump that up and she's nowhere near as useful and combined with all the energy stealing going on any more... she's dead weight quickly.

hmm you are right...damn, didn't think about it...

oh wait, i think she can remove buffs aoe what very few toons can...

but that's it...

on no, she can actually stun aoe if she remove the buffs...
and oh i think she does a very reasonable amount of aoe damage in addition...
i belive you can even equip her with faite talis without problems and she hits like an insane beast with ascension...or she gets a 2nd chance with immortality...

and we actually didn't even mention the powermove...with perfect corruption heal block and permadeath...

so i wouldn't count on an funreal at all...

[Amarthir]

Meh, maybe 6 power cost but 7 is pretty spendy. Cyborg Eddie can possibly steal all enemy buffs and heal himself per buff with his basic so it's like a moderately better version of Astra's attack.

She can't stun you if you have any immunity, plus having immunity cancels her nasty power move. And any shield ever usually reduces true damage, plus everyone has a Golden Pharaoh Dog to reduce damage. Plus Exhaust is becoming slightly more popular. Plus you can cancel her passive with passive disable, or just kill her first.

I'm not trying to defend her hardcore, but she's not AS broken as she used to be. I haven't used her in PvP for a few months now.

Oh yeah, and angel talismans are a thing, so the only real thing should you not have Immunity and get infected with her power move, is perfect corruption.

[Sparton_LOTB]

we have already heard it very often, that this was fixed and in fact it wasn't. so let's wait and see first....

The combat programmer completely rewrote how that passive works, adding new under-the-hood systems to properly track deaths to ensure it's properly executed.

I've even personally verified a few oddball situations where deaths wouldn't be tracked correctly and they're working as expected, but yeah, we still have our QA hammering through various scenarios to confirm if there's any holes.


one question about trap talis...will immunity prevent the negative effects, or will they remove buffs before negative effects are inflicted? intereting for those who are maybe willing to invest 10 mio gold....

I'm... actually not sure. I suspect it'd be like Astra trying to remove Immunity and stun at the same time (in that Immunity blocks it before being purged), but I'd have to check when I'm back in the office on Monday.

[Reeb99]

Most of it looks ok, but a few things are concerning.

First, the change of 100% critical chance becoming a yellow buff. Why? It might not be so bad if getting a character that can steal yellow buffs wasn't so difficult. The way things stand now, it's only going to make the most overpowered eddies even more overpowered. I think I would consider leaving this one alone. It's the chance you have to take when using a character that has that buff. Either you kill them before they steal it, or they steal it and kill you. I have a VHE and I still think this is a bad idea.

Second, the AoF. I'm not so much miffed that he's getting fixed, it's that he's already been nerfed multiple times. You now have an abundance of characters that deal greater damage as a True damage AOE basic attack than the AoF does to a single target. I know that he has a higher critical damage modifier than other characters, but I'd gladly trade that for more consistent non-critical damage. If you are going to prevent him from being used to gain extra turns upon a resurrection, please consider upping his basic damage a bit. He's already suffered enough of a nerf bat beating. You're making him near useless other than for auto farming.

Edit: Also there still seems to be a small bug with Marks causing damage when they expire. I'm guessing this is related to the big bug with effects being applied to the wrong team. I'll often notice my team taking damage from the marks when I eliminate the remaining members of the other team.

[Yup]

on no, she can actually stun aoe if she remove the buffs...
and oh i think she does a very reasonable amount of aoe damage in addition...
i belive you can even equip her with faite talis without problems and she hits like an insane beast with ascension...or she gets a 2nd chance with immortality....

But NONE of that makes her any better than any other toon capable of equipping 3 Assassin talismans. Her 1 big plus is the power move, combined with the other abilities. If you just want damage, and fate/immortality talismans.. Warlord... Wrath... Heck Beelzebub equipped with Fate/Immortality and Paralysis matches the stun and revive.... ... etc... Her power move is her selling factor.. raise the cost and she immediately becomes less useful.

And I'll show my ignorance.. what's AOE an acronym for? Army of Enemies? Against Other Enemies? Arena of Enemies?

[Nemo-6969]

Aoe=area of effect. E.g. hits multiple targets.

[Yup]

Thanks Nemo. :)

Thinking a bit more.. Wrath with Fate/Immortality and Paralysis talismans matches Astra...removes buffs naturally and stuns via the talismans...

So.. Astra is special. Increasing her power costs makes her too expensive.

[Reeb99]

Thanks Nemo. :)

Thinking a bit more.. Wrath with Fate/Immortality and Paralysis talismans matches Astra...removes buffs naturally and stuns via the talismans...

So.. Astra is special. Increasing her power costs makes her too expensive.

Paralysis talismans? Those got nerfed to uselessness long ago. Isn't it only 12% chance now, like freeze talismans? That's far from reliable, and isn't affected by accuracy buffs.

[Yup]

I see Paralysis working pretty well often.

[Amarthir]

Maybe it's high time freezing and paralysis talismans were brought back to the meta. They could be buffed to 25-35%. It's not like they're difficult to resist anyways.

[Reeb99]

They rarely do anything for the live player, just like freeze. Maybe they are a little more reliable for the AI, but that's because the AI cheats. Any talisman set with under a 33 percent chance is useless, considering you have to fight the random lag bursts to get perfect hits anyway.

Speaking of that, can I get the option to turn down my graphics settings in LOTB? My phone has QHD and that seems to contribute to the random lag spurts.

[slauki]

Thanks Nemo. :)

Thinking a bit more.. Wrath with Fate/Immortality and Paralysis talismans matches Astra...removes buffs naturally and stuns via the talismans...

So.. Astra is special. Increasing her power costs makes her too expensive.

the following scenario is pretty common now, so nothing to hide...my old defense was based on this idea and it was doing pretty well...visions can steal energy pretty often and in addition to this he can strip toons.
if he goes first like he does most of the times and steal energy which he does pretty regulary astra can use her powermove immidiatly on the first turn on a somewhat stripped defense. you can force her doing that even more and even better....this is just a stupid broken move. yeah there are ways to counter it to some degree, but nontheless..

in many cases you have your team left with all possible debuffs and without a lot of energy so it's almost impossible to recover (perfect corruption is really badass).
this scenario itself sholdn't be possible because it's simply too much...this alone makes it necessary to increase the powercost at least to 6 but better to 7 points. you will see many defenses that rely on this, right now (my new def too for example). in addition to all other arguments brought up from several players should make the decision pretty clear...

[Amarthir]

the following scenario is pretty common now, so nothing to hide...my old defense was based on this idea and it was doing pretty well...visions can steal energy pretty often and in addition to this he can strip toons.
if he goes first like he does most of the times and steal energy which he does pretty regulary astra can use her powermove immidiatly on the first turn on a somewhat stripped defense. you can force her doing that even more and even better....this is just a stupid broken move. yeah there are ways to counter it to some degree, but nontheless..

in many cases you have your team left with all possible debuffs and without a lot of energy so it's almost impossible to recover (perfect corruption is really badass).
this scenario itself sholdn't be possible because it's simply too much...this alone makes it necessary to increase the powercost at least to 6 but better to 7 points. you will see many defenses that rely on this, right now (my new def too for example). in addition to all other arguments brought up from several players should make the decision pretty clear...

Well give anyone who can naturally get extra turns with their basic energy talismans and as long as RNG is on your side you can use any attack no matter what.

I give my Magus Lilith energy talismans and since she has a 50% extra turn rate, I can exhaust the whole enemy team and rob them of all their energy before they even get a turn. Raising the energy cost of a power move won't really solve your issue. That's why there are alot of counters to the attack.

[slauki]

Well give anyone who can naturally get extra turns with their basic energy talismans and as long as RNG is on your side you can use any attack no matter what.

I give my Magus Lilith energy talismans and since she has a 50% extra turn rate, I can exhaust the whole enemy team and rob them of all their energy before they even get a turn. Raising the energy cost of a power move won't really solve your issue. That's why there are alot of counters to the attack.

true but this limits the range of chars you can use a lot, since very few have extra turns. as said, you can force this even more, but being able to cast this badass move with just one energy steal is horrible imo. you cannot eliminate it completely, right, but we shouldn't make it that easy...that's basicly a balancing act...

[BonFire]

Is there a hidden thing that kicks in whenever you get a 4 and 5* character after a long period of time? When I got Pharaoh Dog King, I got 3 more within the next month. Recently it's the Warrior Child of the Damned. Finally got one a couple months back and now 4 more wanted to be adopted.

[slauki]

one suggestion: since there are ways to remove yellow buffs i would like to see a way, to remove grey debuffs. it could would like with the yellow ones: some special characters could have some ability to cleanse them... would be a nice option, since perfect corruption should get more of an issue with every character, that is able to apply it (like iron eddie).

[Askora]

one suggestion: since there are ways to remove yellow buffs i would like to see a way, to remove grey debuffs. it could would like with the yellow ones: some special characters could have some ability to cleanse them... would be a nice option, since perfect corruption should get more of an issue with every character, that is able to apply it (like iron eddie).

That would also alleviate some of the problem with Astra.

[Kaz_LOTB]

one suggestion: since there are ways to remove yellow buffs i would like to see a way, to remove grey debuffs. it could would like with the yellow ones: some special characters could have some ability to cleanse them... would be a nice option, since perfect corruption should get more of an issue with every character, that is able to apply it (like iron eddie).

That's currently the plan. We have some characters incoming quite soon that will have the ability to remove / cleanse silver debuffs.

-Kaz

[Yup]

How is it I can fight the same team 6 times in the area and NEVER get first strike???

[BonFire]

Well, that's confusing. I marked the entire team and a stutter forced me to only get a good, but on the enemy's team, the Rainmaker got a perfect on the heal move and it did damage to his own marked team before healing them.

[BonFire]

Don't know what's going on, but the game's quit on me 4 times today. Sod this. I'm going back to Grand Order. As soon as my AP recharges.

[Amarthir]

That's currently the plan. We have some characters incoming quite soon that will have the ability to remove / cleanse silver debuffs.

-Kaz

I'm both looking forward to and am mildly frightened by these new characters. But we'll see how things play out.

[Yup]

So basically all buffs will eventually mean the same thing.. merely different colors. They will all be removable. Does that include the Dragon King buffs?

Not sure why you all continually add buff colors.. I thought the point was that some were impossible to remove. Wouldn't a better solution be to merely make Exhaust and Curse yellow buffs, perhaps leaving Doom as a grey buff? I mean, it just sounds like you are continually adding a level of complexity that may not be warranted.

[hold]

So basically all buffs will eventually mean the same thing.. merely different colors. They will all be removable. Does that include the Dragon King buffs?

Not sure why you all continually add buff colors.. I thought the point was that some were impossible to remove. Wouldn't a better solution be to merely make Exhaust and Curse yellow buffs, perhaps leaving Doom as a grey buff? I mean, it just sounds like you are continually adding a level of complexity that may not be warranted.

If I would be in charge I would introduce purple buffs next. They can only be removed on Tuesday in your timezone. After that brown ones for Friday. Red buffs will only work on bank holidays.

After that there will be an event where you can buy a Pointless Soul for 100 ironite. It won't give you a character but you will have a 0.45% chance to get the full list with all known bugs in this game if you have enough storage left on your device.

[slauki]

That's currently the plan. We have some characters incoming quite soon that will have the ability to remove / cleanse silver debuffs.

-Kaz

awesome, good to know. everything has to have a counter in a reasonable game. hope we will reach the stadium one day :)

[slauki]

had this the 2nd time since yesterday... Crimson dog gives echo to allies even he has accuracy down. his chances should be 0% for doing that, would be cool if you could check this

my team:
pharaoh (energy/immunity)
yellow lilith (life/immunity/shell)
CPD (guardians/strike)
red lilith (echo/shell)

enemy:
visions (immunity/health/warp) lol?
CPD (shell/strike/random green)
astra (immortality and 3 shell)
gimp (immunity/strike/random yellow)

had the same as i inflicted acc down with aop i don't think this team had a gimp, but cannot remember exactly...

[Askora]

had this the 2nd time since yesterday... Crimson dog gives echo to allies even he has accuracy down. his chances should be 0% for doing that, would be cool if you could check this

my team:
pharaoh (energy/immunity)
yellow lilith (life/immunity/shell)
CPD (guardians/strike)
red lilith (echo/shell)

enemy:
visions (immunity/health/warp) lol?
CPD (shell/strike/random green)
astra (immortality and 3 shell)
gimp (immunity/strike/random yellow)

had the same as i inflicted acc down with aop i don't think this team had a gimp, but cannot remember exactly...

I could be wrong, but I think the accuracy up and down are multiplied and not added. So it would be reducing his 35% chance by ? (25% or 35%, couldn't find the toon with a description). Reduced 35% would leave him about a 23% chance.

[slauki]

I could be wrong, but I think the accuracy up and down are multiplied and not added. So it would be reducing his 35% chance by ? (25% or 35%, couldn't find the toon with a description). Reduced 35% would leave him about a 23% chance.

i think it always worked before, and sparton once said it's an addition/subtraction with the accuracy up and down...but good thinking...

EDIT: works vs astra every time, nullifies her...so it should be the same here...

[Rain88]

I don't get why people would want to nerf an OK character (Astra) instead of wanting to buff her counter character... this way it will be 2 good characters at the end.

So silver debuff can be cleansed soon? Honestly it would be better to remove the yellow and silver thing and make them just buffs and debuffs.

[Yup]

It's really simple Rain88.... some players have trouble in PVP against some toons.. so.. they whine about it until it's changed.

There are clear errors at times.. like the Gunner CotD being way over powered a month ago (since fixed).. or the current Sentinel Mayan Priestess stealing WAY more buffs than she is supposed to. Due to those issues,, players feel ANY toon they have a hard time with should be changed so the game is easier for them. It's all self-serving in the end.

[Reeb99]

Astra pisses me off at times, but that means she's good lol. I'm kind of on the fence on that one. She is definitely a priority kill, but not impossible to deal with.

Sentinel Priestess never bothered me much. Once you figure her out, she's easy to deal with. I honestly prefer going against her over the revenging Newborns.

I still think turning 100% crit chance into a yellow buff would be a huge mistake. VHE seriously does not need a buff. If this is intended to fix another character, just buff them in some other way.

[Yup]

Not much VHE at the top any more. Now it's mostly Visions Eddie. I mean it's almost laughable how many at the top all follow the herd and switched to Visions + Alliance General + Pharaoh Dog + Mayan Priestess or Lilith or some other 4th toon. There's some variation, but not a whole lot.

[Sparton_LOTB]

had this the 2nd time since yesterday... Crimson dog gives echo to allies even he has accuracy down. his chances should be 0% for doing that, would be cool if you could check this

[...]

had the same as i inflicted acc down with aop i don't think this team had a gimp, but cannot remember exactly...

As Askora noted, don't forget if the Dog has Accuracy Up, he'll have a net 25% chance on his basic (assuming fully skilled, 25+10-35+25), which at the very least he could apply to himself via his power skill.

Other than that, it may be a skill/passive has the wrong accuracy chance under the hood; I'll look into Angel of Pain and Crimson Pharaoh Dog when back in the office to confirm their numbers.

[slauki]

As Askora noted, don't forget if the Dog has Accuracy Up, he'll have a net 25% chance on his basic (assuming fully skilled, 25+10-35+25), which at the very least he could apply to himself via his power skill.

Other than that, it may be a skill/passive has the wrong accuracy chance under the hood; I'll look into Angel of Pain and Crimson Pharaoh Dog when back in the office to confirm their numbers.
thanks, i bet you might find something, since there was no accuracy up involved. so it should be (25%+10%-35% = 0%)



I don't get why people would want to nerf an OK character (Astra) instead of wanting to buff her counter character... this way it will be 2 good characters at the end.

in every reasonable strategy game you have strong units and equal strong counterunits. no matter where you look (starcraft for example)that's a key element of those games. once a char is too strong it removes many other viable possibilities simplay because he is the obvious choice (we had many of those in the past). in lotb this leads to identical defenses all over the arena and to boredome.... this hurts the game in total.
some weeks ago we saw some different defenses in the arena with different eddies like navigator, pharaoh, visions, 7th son, VHE aces high, now 90% have 7th son or visions eddie which sucks for me, not because i lose, because it's tiring to fight the same teams all over the place. mostly i lose to teams where i'm not familiar with. (like jjjs nice team with the samurai...and noone cries for a nerf here, because he is just reasonably strong)
to avoid this scenario constant adjusting is necessary. but yeah buffing some counter chars could also be one way to go, and the devs try this too in the last time. but if you want a real counter, cleansing grey debuffs has to be in his repertoire, otherwise it's no real counter imo...

[Reeb99]

Not much VHE at the top any more. Now it's mostly Visions Eddie. I mean it's almost laughable how many at the top all follow the herd and switched to Visions + Alliance General + Pharaoh Dog + Mayan Priestess or Lilith or some other 4th toon. There's some variation, but not a whole lot.

Just because it isn't meta doesn't mean it isn't good. I'm well aware of all you guys that play 24/7 run carbon copy teams that are a breeze to roll through.

[Sag7272]

Rarely take part in debates about toons or bugs or whatever but I'm going out of my way to weight in..

Have to go with Slauki on that one...
The fact that this power move is unbalanced for what it costs is hardly debatable, seven may be a tad much as are other powerful power moves, AG, GCR, Nomad or even Wrath...

Wait, two of these guys have a story of their own as why they now cost 7 power..

GCR is an interesting one for those who don't remember...

Before Permadeath or buff removal was even widly used that guy was EVERYWHERE with his 5... Or was it 6? Power move, add his shield & auto heal he was a real treat & a no brainer for many build..
He was raised to seven power points move to... How may I say... Balance things since compared to similar cost move for a native 4* it was ridiculous, many yelled their hearts out... Still was just logic the afraid guys where more their heavy users than their opponents..

Seriously, her Gold sister have a 7 point move that make more sense as a 5 & her more as a 7 it's plain logic when you look at comparables, at least with my old eyes lol...

Don't mind her much in the arena actually if any had that in mind, there's a ton of toons more frightening... Just tired of seeing her steal the show
Or wait we can balance it, just drop all the aforementioned power costs to 5, we'll have a lot of fun & no one will mind her funerals... :D

[Amarthir]

Eda's power move is basically a reset button that heals everyone and cleanses them no matter what debuff they have (unless it's grey obviously) when she has critical strike, she basically full heals her team. That's why it costs 7 power.

Astra's power move can be blocked by immunity................. That's it.

[HomemLivre]

If I record it right I have this talk about Astras power move a long time ago with Slauki and some other cool guys. In that time it was not a big deal but nowadays that prove to be a game issue.
Im not fan of a nerf, but a fan of what is fair... and tbh her power its not.

She clearly need to be adjusted, just with the red Lilith (I have no trouble facing her in arena, its quite easy) that hits to hard.
Mho about this two ladies:
Astra - power move increase
Red Lilith - change talisman set to 3 obligatory green

[Sag7272]

when she has critical strike, she basically full heals her team....
As for just about any healer in game...


Astra's power move can be blocked by immunity................. That's it.
As for say Meteor witch still cost 8 points despite that while still doing less damages & only leaving couple burns..

I'm not debating here, said what I had to say & it'll take better arguments than that to change my mind anyway...

We don't seem to be on the same page, it happens :)

[Amarthir]

We don't seem to be on the same page

To be honest, I could care less if they changed her skill to 9 and made her a single target damager. I haven't used her in months and I've fought her hundreds of times and never had an issue with her. I just don't see it as logical to mess with someone who can easily be countered or neutralized.

[slauki]

She clearly need to be adjusted, just with the red Lilith (I have no trouble facing her in arena, its quite easy) that hits to hard.
Mho about this two ladies:
Astra - power move increase
Red Lilith - change talisman set to 3 obligatory green

while i agree(i think the yellow hits a bit too hard too, regading her additional aoe removal) three green slots won't help, since the guys who have her, can simply leave the echos on. this would create an unfair advantage for them.

but targeting the liliths anytime soon is wasted energy i fear, as prisoner, wrath, GCR and others prove. it's part of the business and we can talk about this in some months when new "ultra (OP) hero" chars are released :rolleyes:

[Sag7272]

BTW since this thread is followed by devs...
A thing that'd or be cheered by everyone here.. There's probably no debate there..
Still any interpretation of the idea would be awesome.. It's just a quick idea..

If shards could be shown in regular inventory like in sacrifice display it'd be a HUGE improvement...
An even HUGER improvement would be a way to add shards in the ways to select characters order... So you can somewhat just have your built characters first easing the time consuming inventory browsing without having to rethink the whole display..

Don't know if there's something similar planned but sure everyone would appreciate :)

[JJJ428]

Have others noticed tail gunner Eddies fury is broken with constant granting of extra turns regardless of it killing someone, will this be addressed with the AOP fix?

[Amarthir]

Have others noticed tail gunner Eddies fury is broken with constant granting of extra turns regardless of it killing someone, will this be addressed with the AOP fix?

Yep, hopefully it'll be fixed in the update, it cost me a battle once.

[Coletrain]

Hey Sparton, thanks for the tuning notes. A few thoughts that I had:

-Gunner Undead Rescuer updates! Is there a list of possible beneficial/negative effects that "Haul" can grant? Or perhaps a list of those it cannot? I'm still not a fan of the move, but appreciate the updates. It's also interesting to see that "Safe" is updated to exactly the effects that Astra's power move can do...

-Are you able to shed light on how Assassin Corrupt Rescuer's "Lockdown" will work with the new change? How many beneficial effects will it remove at a time? Is this in addition to randomly sealing an ability (i.e. could it remove an effect and seal an ability in same turn), or will it be "randomly seal OR remove beneficial effects"?

-More of a comment: I'm assuming the change to Roaring Wave was in response to the recent AI changes for Navigator. I have mixed feelings about decreasing the extra damage as a trade off for AOE, there was some utility in using that skill against tougher characters/bosses (such as Dragon King) with negative effects on them. Would rather have the AI changed back to the previous AI :D

Thanks as always for the open communication!

[Yup]

Actually.. you know why Mayan Priestess is such an issue.....

ALL buff stealing toons on the defense team steal ALL buffs EVERY time they hit.. all of them.. the Newborns of light.. the War. Undead Rescuer. Alliance General... ALL buff stealers on the Defensive team have a 100% success rate in all cases. THAT is the primary issue. it's not specifically the Mayan Priestess.

[blade685]

Actually.. you know why Mayan Priestess is such an issue.....

ALL buff stealing toons on the defense team steal ALL buffs EVERY time they hit.. all of them.. the Newborns of light.. the War. Undead Rescuer. Alliance General... ALL buff stealers on the Defensive team have a 100% success rate in all cases. THAT is the primary issue. it's not specifically the Mayan Priestess.

Mayan Priestess and alliance general are a pain yes...

[Sick]

BTW since this thread is followed by devs...
A thing that'd or be cheered by everyone here.. There's probably no debate there..
Still any interpretation of the idea would be awesome.. It's just a quick idea..

If shards could be shown in regular inventory like in sacrifice display it'd be a HUGE improvement...
An even HUGER improvement would be a way to add shards in the ways to select characters order... So you can somewhat just have your built characters first easing the time consuming inventory browsing without having to rethink the whole display..

Don't know if there's something similar planned but sure everyone would appreciate :)


Fully agree. There should be a way to mark active characters in your team and filter those. It happens quite often that I remove Talis from characters I don't use. After somedays I forget about it and another few days later I let them fight the Dragon King. Guess what happens.

[T-Man]

Have others noticed tail gunner Eddies fury is broken with constant granting of extra turns regardless of it killing someone, will this be addressed with the AOP fix?

I reported this when he got buffed some months back. Right after that update he did his fury over and over until my team was gone. This happened a few times, but I haven’t seen it happen in a while.

[Sparton_LOTB]

BTW since this thread is followed by devs...
A thing that'd or be cheered by everyone here.. There's probably no debate there..
Still any interpretation of the idea would be awesome.. It's just a quick idea..

If shards could be shown in regular inventory like in sacrifice display it'd be a HUGE improvement...
An even HUGER improvement would be a way to add shards in the ways to select characters order... So you can somewhat just have your built characters first easing the time consuming inventory browsing without having to rethink the whole display..

Don't know if there's something similar planned but sure everyone would appreciate :)

It's actually funny you mention that, but we actually had some discussions late yesterday that were around the idea of further improving the My Team screen. I'll make a note about the use cases you're talking about as we continue to explore improvements for that part of the game.


Have others noticed tail gunner Eddies fury is broken with constant granting of extra turns regardless of it killing someone, will this be addressed with the AOP fix?

The changes that were made were specific to the Angel of Fear's First Blood passive. Fixes for other characters' passives or effects that look for "on kill" still need to be reviewed, but work we've done for First Blood may help with solving those problems.

With just a quick look over the changes to data the programmer made to support it, I may be able to fix other similar problems. However, it won't be in time for the next update, as it's too risky for me to try and make those changes with where we are with trying to finalize the update.


-Gunner Undead Rescuer updates! Is there a list of possible beneficial/negative effects that "Haul" can grant?

Haul will be able to Crave, Heal Block, Blind, Exhaust, or Accuracy Down.


-Are you able to shed light on how Assassin Corrupt Rescuer's "Lockdown" will work with the new change? How many beneficial effects will it remove at a time? Is this in addition to randomly sealing an ability (i.e. could it remove an effect and seal an ability in same turn), or will it be "randomly seal OR remove beneficial effects"?

In both cases (current and future functionality), a random enemy is chosen each turn. Currently, it will just seal. Post-tuning changes, it'll seal and remove effects. It's still only affecting a single randomly-chosen enemy.


-More of a comment: I'm assuming the change to Roaring Wave was in response to the recent AI changes for Navigator. I have mixed feelings about decreasing the extra damage as a trade off for AOE, there was some utility in using that skill against tougher characters/bosses (such as Dragon King) with negative effects on them. Would rather have the AI changed back to the previous AI :D

Kaz assures me it should still be useful in the situation you describe. Definitely let us know your thoughts once the change is live!

[Sag7272]

It's actually funny you mention that, but we actually had some discussions late yesterday that were around the idea of further improving the My Team screen. I'll make a note about the use cases you're talking about as we continue to explore improvements for that part of the game.


Glad to see you are on this!
Honestly any improvement would be appreciated,
happy if any part of it ends up helping :)

[Stormseye]

Actually.. you know why Mayan Priestess is such an issue.....

ALL buff stealing toons on the defense team steal ALL buffs EVERY time they hit.. all of them.. the Newborns of light.. the War. Undead Rescuer. Alliance General... ALL buff stealers on the Defensive team have a 100% success rate in all cases. THAT is the primary issue. it's not specifically the Mayan Priestess.4451

This is true. Guess how many buffs I had at the end of the fight and one of them had Angel talis. I finally did win this fight though.

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is true. Guess how many buffs I had at the end of the fight and one of them had Angel talis. I finally did win this fight though.

Probably the funniest thing about that team is it probably does nothing to opponents that don't actually have any buffs to steal (or only have golden positive effects). Just some damage and some self healing, and presumably a talisman set buff or two to keep the blocker alive.

Other than utilizing the known issue that too many positive effects get stolen by the Mayan Priestesses, I at least appreciate the creativity of that team.

[Yup]

Probably the funniest thing about that team is it probably does nothing to opponents that don't actually have any buffs to steal (or only have golden positive effects). Just some damage and some self healing, and presumably a talisman set buff or two to keep the blocker alive.

Other than utilizing the known issue that too many positive effects get stolen by the Mayan Priestesses, I at least appreciate the creativity of that team.

I don't know. :) The Priestess with a Charge buff (since it's not yellow yet) can hit kinda hard. Especially if you aren't focused on a single attack and she's revenging all over the place. (and has a shit-ton of relics to keep her healthy.) Load her with Ascension from 7th son or Mystic and she hits MUCH harder.

The point of my previous post was that there's NO "IF" for any standard buff stealer.. if they are on the defense team they all steal all buffs all the time on every hit. I don't think all of them are supposed to do that. If you have a buff stealer on the attack team.. there's clearly a success percentage in play.

[Sparton_LOTB]

The point of my previous post was that there's NO "IF" for any standard buff stealer.. if they are on the defense team they all steal all buffs all the time on every hit. I don't think all of them are supposed to do that. If you have a buff stealer on the attack team.. there's clearly a success percentage in play.

AI-controlled teams, regardless of feature, have the same chances to proc effects that the player does.

Hell, earlier this week I was wondering if we accidentally broke the Newborn of Light's Exodus, because their 75% remove chance just kept not removing my Invicibilities on multiple different occasions I fought them...

[Yup]

AI-controlled teams, regardless of feature, have the same changes to proc effects that the player does.

Hell, earlier this week I was wondering if we accidentally broke the Newborn of Light's Exodus, because their 75% remove chance just kept not removing my Invicibilities on multiple different occasions I fought them...

Yeah I understand that's how it's supposed to work :) But WUR and the S Mayan and AG and G Lilith don't have a 100% chance for all buff stealing do they? They seriously take every single buff (non yellow/grey) from any character with every single hit they make. If it's not 100% it's got to be like 95%

The newborns.. I see rarely. I understand they remove rather than steal.. but the few I have seen, seem to also be at 100% effectiveness. I may be wrong about the Newborns.. again, I think Iv'e only seen a couple this past week.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Yeah I understand that's how it's supposed to work :) But WUR and the S Mayan and AG and G Lilith don't have a 100% chance for all buff stealing do they? They seriously take every single buff (non yellow/grey) from any character with every single hit they make. If it's not 100% it's got to be like 95%

None of those have 100% chance, but due to the known bug, the chance of at least one of the "steal" chances (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2+trials+with+a+45%25+chance) for Sentinel Priestess is pretty high (nearly 70% per enemy).

Allied General and Gunner Lilith shouldn't be stealing all buffs, unless "all buffs" is 2 or less (for Allied General) or 1 per enemy (for Gunner Lilith). If you have a match where you saw otherwise, please let me know via PM the time of the match you had and we can review it and potentially uncover whatever bug could have cause it to do otherwise and pass that along to the team to investigate.

[Amarthir]

Since you're answering questions Sparton, I've seen Aces High Eddie's Do or Die NOT applying Permadeth on an enemy with endure my theory is that the "removes one buff" is taking away the effect instead of replacing it with Permadeth. Also, if you one shot someone with Immortality using Do or Die, they will ressurect anyways. I just feel like they should stay dead?

[Yup]

It's all buffs for all those toons, Spartan. Even if it's 3, 4, 6 buffs. I've seen it all day this entire week. The only time they DON'T steal a buff.. is if they already have that buff.. so if WUR has a Charge buff.. it won't steal another Charge buff. Other than that... each of my toons loses all buffs if any of those characters hit it in every single instance. Only when Perfect Immunity is present is there any sort of decreased percentage for buff stealing.

Just look over any of my battles today against any of those toons. You'll see them stealing all buffs.

[DIEDD]

Since you're answering questions Sparton, I've seen Aces High Eddie's Do or Die NOT applying Permadeth on an enemy with endure my theory is that the "removes one buff" is taking away the effect instead of replacing it with Permadeth. Also, if you one shot someone with Immortality using Do or Die, they will ressurect anyways. I just feel like they should stay dead?

I can confirm this, but I was thinking that it is because he eliminates the target before applying the permadeth, I am not sure of this but it could be.
Also noted that "triple shot" does not always give critical chance if an enemy is eliminated.

[Yup]

I'll amend things... AG is indeed only taking 2... but the SMP and WUR take them all. I think I was so frustrated by WUR that the AG seemed to be taking more than it should.. but I was wrong.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Since you're answering questions Sparton, I've seen Aces High Eddie's Do or Die NOT applying Permadeth on an enemy with endure my theory is that the "removes one buff" is taking away the effect instead of replacing it with Permadeth.

That is probably the bug, yes. I think that is known, but I don't know the priority for fixing that specific issue.


Also, if you one shot someone with Immortality using Do or Die, they will ressurect anyways. I just feel like they should stay dead?

Yeah, I've been working with our QA to verify issues relating to Permadeath this week, and despite it stopping Ghost/stopping skills that revive already dead targets, there is a bug with the Perfect Immortality/regular Immortality positive effects working against attacks that are trying to apply both Permadeath and lethal damage at the same time.

We're unlikely to have a fix for the next update, but it's something I'm making sure is tracked to be prioritized for a future one.


[...] but the SMP and WUR take them all.

Sentinel Mayan Priestess taking all is the known bug, as previously discussed.

Warrior Undead Rescuer is supposed to have a chance to take all positives from a single target 75% of the time (when fully skilled), so that is also expected.

[Yup]

Sentinel Mayan Priestess taking all is the known bug, as previously discussed.

Warrior Undead Rescuer is supposed to have a chance to take all positives from a single target 75% of the time (when fully skilled), so that is also expected.

Yeah I know SMP is a know.. WUR seems way too accurate.. but okay.. I'll accept that maybe it's just my perception. At least until I start building stats to prove he is :)

[MrFreeze]

Yeah I know SMP is a know.. WUR seems way too accurate.. but okay.. I'll accept that maybe it's just my perception. At least until I start building stats to prove he is :)

I noticed WUR not steal from me once....once.

[Liebhild]

With the addition of Relics the odds for offense and defense should be the same.

[blade685]

Yeah I know SMP is a know.. WUR seems way too accurate.. but okay.. I'll accept that maybe it's just my perception. At least until I start building stats to prove he is :)

the problem for that toons is that they are completely over boosted in defence (with the cheat defence bonus...) and okay in att teams...

[Reeb99]

I've had WUR fail to steal buffs for 3 turns in a row before. People just need to remember that the AI cheats, and none of those characters are as good for the players.

[Kaz_LOTB]

Closing this thread as the new game update discussion thread has been posted here (http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/showthread.php?10001-April-3rd-2018-Update-Discussion&p=69926#post69926).