An idea to switch up PVP.....

[Yup]

Make the Defensive team random.....

What I mean is the AI picks the strongest Eddie the player has... then three strong allies.. whenever you get attacked.
Next attack, another 4 Defensive players are picked by the AI, never picking the same toons twice. This, combined with the mythical "Gauntlet", would encourage players to utilize more characters and power them up.

Everything resets every hour or 4 hours.

So the players themselves do not pick their defensive team. All they can do is power up as much as possible.

Make the DEF stat effect rankings less due to this and focus on the win stat.

This would eliminate the top 50 teams ALL being Visions Eddie and Pharaoh dog.

Yeah, yeah.. I now there will be nay-sayers.. but basically relics have improved PvP for 10% of players and made it complete boring drudgery for the other 90%.

[satani]

This would assume that you have different teams....

Some people, like myself have a very limited number of players.
I have 1 PVP attack team, slightly altered (prisoner replaces magus UR) for defense and one team for the red and green dragon.
PVE is my pvp eddie and random lowlevels. I don't have that many Eddies (namely: 7th son, monarch, coalgiver, pharaoh and mystic) on one account. I don't even have an actual eddie for the garden of dismay. Sure i have a lot of toons, but mostly i keep PVP-Exclusives, rares and fragment-characters. (why should i even bother keeping the green bomber boy, nomad, alliance general, witch doctor or PDK? Once i get one of these, they keep saved for the next sacrifice event.

And for visions eddie... he's not that hard to kill. My 7th son and my red lillith can insta-kill him without problems.

[Yup]

Where are you ranked? Because I promise you the top 100 slots are filled with at least 90 Vision Eddie teams. And while Visions himself isn't hard to kill.. but stack all the HP relics and it's just time-consuming. The Relics have REALLY altered the top of PVP making it just horse shit completely. Throw in the complete lack of creativity on the defensive teams and I can spend all day killing Visions after Visions after Visions after Visions.. it's worse than grinding story levels.

And if you don't have a lot of powered characters.. well, you'd have to fight a lot more to boost the win stat. Since teh DEF stat would hold less value.

[RobG-9641]

Something needs to be done about Arena, not only randomize Defense teams, but rewards/tiers. Did over 500 wins for event & 9,000+ lifetime but I don’t try to compete for rank for reasons you list. Top teams all similar and insanely strong. Battles take too long. As of right now top ranks for a limited few. New players have no chance at ranking due to Relics imbalance. So until it’s fixed, I’m just playing events for talismans & skill shards & iron coins. Arena just a grind fest for small group of people. Glad this thread was started & hope it brings a revamp...

[Yup]

The arena is fun until you get to around 100.. then it's always the SAME players... always the SAME team (because they all copy each other)... then they all have massive relics because.. well .. they are all always at the top because they have so much time to play. All relics have done is to ensure they will always stay at the top, that's all.

I have a bunch of relics.. but I won't EVER catch up... not until everyone has purchased every possible relic possible and eventually I'm able to do the same. Devs massively screwed up PvP by introducing a feature no one needed or asked for.

[JJJ428]

I would think I am one of those top players and enjoy having a ton of relics. Right now all the lower teams have become incredibly easy and only have about 5 or 6 players now that are a challenge.

When they released the relics I was hoping that meant gauntlet was coming soon but by some of the comments it seems beta is a long way off let alone everyone having access to it which means we are going to have this relic divide for the foreseeable future and I can see it alienating anyone who has not grinded to top.

[Yup]

JJJ its not about grinding.. it's about returns.. above 100 you get 13 IC for each win, and I get 12 for being above 250.. I'll never catch you...if I were to drop below 250 and only get 10IC.. well there's no way I would ever catch up. And not jsut due to that.. I may lose a battle every now and then due to the (clear but unspoken) Defensive boost. All these teams with massive relics ALSO get that defense boost!! It's an untenable situation for most people playing the "game".

Those with all the relics as you put it.. now have EASY wins.. so they are ensured of the high iron coin return every fight.... All the devs have done is to give 5% of players more... and screw the other 95% playing.

[JJJ428]

Sorry it didn't mean grinded now. I meant all those who have grinded before and were sitting on huge war chests of iron coins. I agree with you, it has become impossible for anyone who has not made it to the top before to be able to grind up and compete the power divide will become too huge until they find other ways for people to get iron coins. They should not have released relics if gauntlet was this far off.

[Yup]

Even if they found "other ways for people to get iron coins" Those with all the relics will earn those too. There's no leveling out of players.

What they need to to is refactor the defensive teams in the arena... remove the "hidden" boost that's clearly given.. reduce relics by 50% or something....

I mean I throw all my ic into HP boosts.. great.. but the top players have all the HP boost, so they start throwing (more) ic into ATK and MAG or DEF or MR or Fury.. so my HP boost means nothing add to that the DEF boost given for every match and.... it's stupidly outweighed due to the mechanics., not the players.

Before relics I was competing in the top 50.. not really trying to get to 25 or better just due to the time commitment. Now.. there's no way I can compete with +160% HP boosts at the top. Even if my team has no issue going second and they all survive with relatively decent HP left. I can't overcome the HUGE disparity in HP.

[Amarthir]

'least until those "reduces Max health by #%" type moves come out.

[slauki]

i agree, something has to be done, for me arena is worse than ever. don't like the random picks idea, but they should remove the supid relics out of the game...

i clearly profit from the relics, since i'm one of those who are in the top 25 forever now, but despite this, what's with the other 95-97%? man i feel sorry for the guys who sometimes run 5 times vs my def and lose. fights got soooo long and boring for me, the time factor is just too big of an issue. and the imbalance is just ridiculous, if you fight vs some guys outside the top 100 it's just a massacre, but once you are in the top 10 range things will change, and you will face similar teams over, and over and over and over...sure that's the nature of the game, we will copy each other an we will tend to find the best chars to use in every meta...but fighting vs all those visions is just tiresome...

[Sponholz]

I'm so tired atm, and I was the one advocating against Relics being implemented in the game since the moment they were announced (they were rushed, game didn't needed then at all.)

And I always said "wake up" they will change the game, and most just said in reply: "the impact is minimal".

So...

I'm glad most are seeing how bad they are to the game.

And even is they make another way to farm then the damage is already done, the players with tons of Iron Coins hoarded will still remains Kings, since the amount of Iron Coins to max then is huge, and they will just keep farming and getting even more coins then any other player until every single relic is maxed.

And plz, don't fool yourselves about the "-HP% Debuff". Immunity still goes a long way here, and they will not, all of a sudden, fix the game. (Besides I'm mostly sure they will apply to the base HP of the character, just like any other % stat modifier, so it doesn't appear that good in my book.)


I am exhausted by getting 150 wins, when on last Arena events I went to 400 wins and having fun while doing it.



I will try and play my Troopers, but if any of you don't get my badges this next days, thank NF for that, they are ruining this game little by little, and I am pretty sure I am not the only one having second thoughts about just stopping completely.




Anyway Happy Easter Everyone!!! Forget about this game on the next days and enjoy some Family time!!!!


Cheers! Ed. (Easter Cheer!)

[Yup]

New plan.. bash the hell out of people immediately after the weekly rollover.. get as many of those 15 iron coin wins as possible and load up on relics..... then inevitably drop as those who already have all teh relics get back into play :)

[MoonShadow]

The saddest thing is that they've had a lot of good ideas to implement into the Arena, from the community, but they've ignored everything. More than that, they seem to do exactly what the players do not want, as for example, many have said that seeing the attack teams was a bad idea => they've kept it; many have said that seeing the talismans set-up of the defense team was a bad idea => they've kept it; many say now that the Relics are a BAD JOKE FOR THE ARENA => they'll probably keep them. Not probably, I'm pretty sure they will. And this thing is awful.

I was so disappointed by the Arena last night, that I've stopped playing. It is useless to keep fighting for a decent place. Once I've started to see top names in my list, I knew that I'd better shut down the game. It is just silly what is happening right now.

When I want to play a match I will play it when I know that I do have a at least a small chance to win. Now, when I'm facing the lions of the Arena, I know there's a 100% chance to lose. This is NOT right. :(

[RobG-9641]

Yup’s strategy is exactly right. It’s what I’ve been doing. I don’t even set a defense anymore. Easy D event or not. Load up on coins after reset, then selectively beat up on weaker teams rest of week. Getting lots of coin and battles tend to be shorter than grinding out against top teams. It’s a lucrative strategy for iron coins!!

[Zerynx]

Yup’s strategy is exactly right. It’s what I’ve been doing. I don’t even set a defense anymore. Easy D event or not. Load up on coins after reset, then selectively beat up on weaker teams rest of week. Getting lots of coin and battles tend to be shorter than grinding out against top teams. It’s a lucrative strategy for iron coins!!

I've been thinking the same thing. Honestly, the only way for the "have nots" to battle against the horrible arena right now is to set a weak defense. Make it easy for all of us in the lower tiers to get IC and claw our way up. Yes I know the "haves" will have an easier time for a while, but once all the tiers shake out it will make it better for those below the Warlord levels to get ICs.

Also it will pretty much eliminate all the cheating the AI does in the area. Win/Win I say!

[Yup]

Not sure how you see "all the cheating the AI does" being eliminated. Fighting the #1 ranked teams results in the exact same boosts and bugs as it does fighting the #1000000 ranked player. In that respect the arena is equal.. everyone gets/suffered from the same issues.

The big difference with rankings is the payout.. higher you rank the more iron coins you get. So at rank 500 it takes you 10 fights to get 100 coins.... at rank 250+ it takes you 9 fights for 108 IC... at rank 100+ it takes you 8 fights for 104 IC.... at rank 25+ it takes you 7 fights for 105 IC. So lower ranking fight more but earn less. The better you are ranked the faster you build IC and the more relics you can purchase sooner.

But yeah.. it'll NEVER be equal until everyone has every relic available. Then... it'll all be back to exactly where it was before relics were introduced just with high damage/heal numbers. I guess it's a 3/6 month distraction then????

[Zerynx]

If you set a weak D the Ai can't cheat *that* much. Was kinda being silly, and not at all addressing anyone in the top 250.

[Yup]

Yeah weak def takes that out of play.. which I'm all for.. I mean if the AI controlled the D.. then it'd be MUCH more interesting overall.

[EnricoPalazzo]

Yup and others, I get your point regarding weak defenses, but one question:
Why exactly do you play?
I play for having fun, because I like the challenge of a good defense.
I agree, relics have turned the upper echelons to shit and it's not fun at all to be pommeled by supercharged defense teams with the DEF bonus on top.
But my fun in the game is not the ranking, it's the challenge. I'd probably stop playing arena altogether if every team I face is made up by a 3* Eddie and a few pumpkins, because this is not fun, it's just collecting coins.
If it's coins and (long term) rank you're after, I understand your reasoning, but for me, if everyone in the top 500-250 (where I usually play) adopted weak defenses, I'd probably stop playing altogether. I just rush through the lower ranks every week until I hit the line where defenses start to get tough and THEN the arena is fun for me.
I agree, it's time to stop when you get to around 100, but I usually don't have the time to get that high up.
So for casual players, I think the relics don't make that much of an impact (neither positive or negative), but I agree that they did not improve the game for all of us and made it a lot worse for the not-quite-top-ranked players.

The lack of genuinely new features has lead to inflation of the existing features.
- Raise the stats with relics until everyone is at an equal level
- introduce buffs => then debuff capabilities => then non-debuffable buffs => then characters who can debuff non-debuffable buffs
Next will be rainbow-glimmer-super-non-debuffable buffs, then the rainbow-destroyer-debuffers and so on.
This is an attempt to keep the game interesting (and profitable of course) despite the fact that objectively, not much is happening in terms of really new material.
New game modes? The last one was BNW (which really is nothing but regular PVE with a harder boss), and that took almost two years.
I get the feeling that NF bought a bug-infested, overpriced, under-documented game from the initial DEV team and now has to do everything in its powers to get some money out of it.

But hey, rant over.
I'll happily join the ranks to shout "remove relics from the arena", but exclusively weak defenses outside any PVP event would just kill this game for me.

Edit to add:
I like the idea of random defense though. You could have a pool of say 3 Eddies and 15 allies (no dupes) you would have to designate for random defense and the defense could be set up from this pool.
While I like putting some thought into setting up a good defense, there definitely is a line from where on up you do not have any diversity between the teams, and that kills the fun again for me.

[Stormseye]

I agree with pretty much everything being said here. Even though I have only been really grinding in the last few months in PVP after my return. The relics really widened the gaps in the arena. I know that once I hit 100 I will only see similar group builds, myself included. On a personal note I have made a new attack group that has been able to deal some considerable success against the current meta. I have quite a few relics and whenever I face anyone who doesn't have at least 50%health global it usually ends by second turn. That is not fun for me even if I am playing against a boosted AI but fighting the same groups at 100+ ranks is also boring. Relics just need to be removed from the Arena altogether. Maybe the logic of NF was to get more people to play the PVP area with the hopes to increase their characters with Relics for PVE but the content and the Relics did not come in sync. So now we have this huge gap between the top 250 and the rest.

I feel like others are trying to break the general Visions meta though as of the last few days I have seen Trooper Eddies, SoL Eddies and Samurai Eddies in the top 100. My current attack team is Soldier/GPD/WUR/WLillith. I would set this team as my defense but it has gotten eaten up every time by any testing groups I throw at it and I know the AI will not play it the way I do so I have to keep my defense in place till I find a better route.

Simplest way in my eyes would be just to turn off relics in PVP.

[Yup]

I "get" the logic behind Relics... allow players to do more than just have the same fully sharded, 5 star level 50 talismans, on level 100 character. It's a randomizer in general. I do "get" the reasoning. And that in itself is a decent idea.

The problem is.. you can only get relics with iron coins... and you can only get iron coins by winning matches. And there was already a whole pack of users with a stockpile of Iron Coins. If Relics were introduced for Frontier Coins... or some new currency... the issue wouldn't be there. Because EVERYONE would have started at zero or close to it.

NF basically threw a big bone to their best, or at least oldest, attack dogs.... and screwed everyone else.

[JJJ428]

Second what yup said. In concept relics are a great idea and will create diversity because once you get past the global relics you have to chose which class type you want your focus to be on. There are ideas I like to use on the arena but I won’t because I decide to focus on a different class type. Even with the giant war chests of people I think this could have been resolved if they would have put weekly or monthly caps on how many relics you could buy. But they should have seen the huge split this would have caused, I know there are some players who had close to 100k iron coins saved up.