Week 2 of PvP - Statistics and Attacks

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Originally Posted by slauki

1. reducing the tunt% of mummy and SSD
2. change prisoners passive that only affect random passives (or removes the passives of the own team too)
3. change siege, that is only affects random effects (or reduces the own effects too)
4. change the gunner rescuer in some way, otherwise he will be the next chuck norris
5. decrease the damage output from grim reaper or remove his extra turn, that can trigger 3-4 times, doing 15k damage every time
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1. To me his % is okay, I think it is overprocessing. I have exact same processing rates on other toons that are processing nowhere near the frequency of SSD and Mummy.

2. If there is a nerf to prisoner it needs to be very very subtle. He is 5*. I'll continue to be a proponent that nerfing him comes at a high risk. He, as he is, is cool. I don't have him, but love what he does.

3. Against anything done to siege. I almost hate siege more than prisoner given it affects you every round until he is gone, but again think siege has a place in the game. I wouldn't touch it.

4. I don't stress him anymore; although he is very much one of the top game changing players. I'd love to have him on offense.

5. Grim is a tough one. Unsharded he isn't that bad. Almost boring. To get him OP you have to spend a shift-load of shards, and you get him after beating the game. On the fence here. I think given the investment to fully shard, I lean towards leaving as is.

My 2 cents.

Good points slauki! Good to discuss.

Sparton, are you going to have more character discussions? That was hot about a month ago and is now dead.

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Originally Posted by Sag7272

As promised, here are my stats for a full week... Sure could had gone ballistic & play with Nicko & Shaolin but lacking time I quietly landed 6th, real happy for GMAC & his 5th place :)

ATT 96% (361/376)
Def 35% (121/350)

Lowest def hold since beginning of January before the "GS/DM" freezer teams..

Before we hear the classic " He have a prisoner that's why he's that high" refrain, remember that everyone in that team is maxed & is thought to work with the other toons around him, tallismans too are built accordingly as a whole been tested in LoL & def manager hundred of times to figure out AI ect..
There's a reason why I never shown last week stats, with all newcomers smashing a wall I would had been crucified...

I'll never say that the Prisoner is a small factor out there he's really powerful both way but there's dozen of other factors too, testing, tallismans, skillshards.. every tweak account for a hold here & there & higher rate should not ONLY accounted as a given because someone have a prisoner, I may be wrong but to me he may account for a good 5-7% DEF or ATT rate for sure but probably not the 10-15% he's accused of by many...
For what it worth that's where my opinion is...

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My defense is fully skillsharded and I loose a lot against it if I test it - but I can't neutralize their passives. I got full 50 level talis on all of them. If it is only a matter of testing, talismans, skillshards and so on - try a week without your Prisoner and we talke again. Very easy to proof us "complaining people" wrong - isn't it?

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Originally Posted by The Educated fool

Well said as usual, Sag. It seems like testing defenses and building teams with synergy is kinda taken for granted here sometimes, doesn't it? I see that too. And 5 - 7% (which I agree, seems accurate) really doesn't seem all that much to me either... but, like you, that's my opinion.)

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easy to calculate: 400 attacks -> 7% -> points to have or to gain or to loose (assuming a lousy 12 points per fight) -> 672 points difference - to me that ounds like a big deal.

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Originally Posted by ToTameAGame

My defense is fully skillsharded and I loose a lot against it if I test it - but I can't neutralize their passives. I got full 50 level talis on all of them. If it is only a matter of testing, talismans, skillshards and so on - try a week without your Prisoner and we talke again. Very easy to proof us "complaining people" wrong - isn't it?

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I don't mean what you imply..
I mean that back in the beta I saw an impressive increase of about 5% over a week by doubling my void shield set, was it prisoner fault too?
The fact that most toon in my defense stun to work with the mummy 2 turn taunt are prisoner fault too?
I can put many powerful 5* tallisman combination that would lead to a lower rate of hold despite doing more damage...

I said that you have to look at the broader picture when you interpret those results as even with all the right toons you can build a shitty team prisoner or not if it doesn't work together & hold a certain balance talisman wise be these maxed or not..

A good part of the higher rates is in the small details & thinkering, the prisoner is a factor it's true but interpreting the results the way you do give him too much credit, look at Shaolin stats & tell me he's that far of a prisoner team, I bet there's a lot of thinkering & work behind this & it didn't happened overnight... Toons-team-tallismans, everything have to work together just being maxed is not the point in a successful defense..

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Originally Posted by Nicko

Its silly to debate whether the Prisoner makes a difference - he does. I'll be honest - I've played over 1000 matches over the last two weeks. I've lost to only THREE non-Prisoner teams. I specifically remember each of them. One was Schadenfreud when I left my Prisoner out and his AoP became a "Prisoner" (which WILL happen if Prisoner is nerfed too hard) - My Hellhound and Troll didn't work - I went second - and was taunted/stunned to oblivion. The other two were against ChaosEgo and Carlos. Each of those times I got careless and attacked Void shields with my Hellhound while not paying attention.

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I saw that hold when I was on my lunch break at work the other day. I thought to myself that the game just probably crashed on you. I hate to see the Prisoner get nerfed but I do understand it now. Personally, It is easier to accept now that I have learned how to beat Prisoner teams. I figure it is more of an advantage to have it to use on your offense and fight passive free than anything else. You have to think backwards when going against Prisoner teams and fight with a defense team. I think that is the part that Gmac and I have figured out. I agree with you about the Angel of Pain living up to it's name. It gives me more trouble than the Prisoner but the Corrupt General gives me more trouble than any other character in the game. You can take it down quick as long as you have a chance to attack. I am pretty sure I have suitable characters on my roster to deal with it, just need to figure out what to develop next

Here my statistics

Attachment 2550

• I spent 0 (zero) ironite to refill SoW or refresh the attack list
• Never cleared the whole attack list, only attacked higher ranked players to get more points. Mainly I attacked 2-3 targets from list and then waited until free refresh was available. Only attacked lower ranked players if I still had unused SoW and had to go to bed :)
• My defense has a prisoner, but the win rate is pretty low. Maybe as result that I was attacked back by top players.

Really annoying were totally 10 lost battles, which I had to exit due to bugs reported in this post

I don't know if I was not appearing on some attack lists, but the differences how often we are attacked can be partially also be explained, that the players can choose whom to attack. And some teams are less attractive as others.
My personal conclusion is not to attack a Mummy+SSD+CG combo :). As I have no toons who can grant passive immunitiy, even if I go first I then never got control of my team.

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Originally Posted by slauki

actually that's the biggest fun part in PVP adjusting strategys on many different and creative teams. but atm you see the same toons everywhere, mummy, prisoner, ssd, bluebat, grim reaper and aof. that's makes pvp just another boring grindfest.

for more variation we need more balance. yes it would also be okay to buff some other nice characters. prolly it would be even smarter than nerfing three OP toons. but in realitiy it's much more difficult to do that.

so i would suggest several things for the sake of diversity:

1. reducing the tunt% of mummy and SSD
2. change prisoners passive that only affect random passives (or removes the passives of the own team too)
3. change siege, that is only affects random effects (or reduces the own effects too)
4. change the gunner rescuer in some way, otherwise he will be the next chuck norris
5. decrease the damage output from grim reaper or remove his extra turn, that can trigger 3-4 times, doing 15k damage every time

we would instantly see a much greater variation of teams and more justice for all :-)

and yes, there will be the next toon, that will cause trouble, but that's no argument to live with these broken things forever. if we do nothing, this will hurt the game in midterm and longterm. so we kinda have all to swallow some bitter pills (like CG, AOF and AOS nerfs for example).

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I agree with most of this, especially the taunting. I rely on this alot myself. I disagree that the Corrupt Rescuer will ever be that threatening. I used it on my defensive team when I first got it but most have learned how to dispose of it easily. The key is with Talismans and Stuns, just keep her from reviving allies. She is almost as dumb as Pharaoh Eddie anyway. The problem with all the nerfing is we are going to reach a point where the only defensive hold anyone gets is going to be because of game crashes

Here is my stats, no prisoner, no CG no troll. I was playing with attack team so my attack is a little lower this week, i expect it to be higher this week.

Attack 77% (236/306)
Defense 30% (116/381)

Finished rank 183

it is very weird on the times someones name comes up. My wife had 20 fewer attacks than me, but was attacked less then 100 times total. I assume it is perception on what could be an easier team to beat.
I have already been attacked 44 times and have only attacked 3 times since reset.

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Originally Posted by Chaosego888

I agree with most of this, especially the taunting. I rely on this alot myself. I disagree that the Corrupt Rescuer will ever be that threatening. I used it on my defensive team when I first got it but most have learned how to dispose of it easily. The key is with Talismans and Stuns, just keep her from reviving allies. She is almost as dumb as Pharaoh Eddie anyway. The problem with all the nerfing is we are going to reach a point where the only defensive hold anyone gets is going to be because of game crashes

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the set of skills is way too much imo. revive party, endure, and renewing shield every round, enough for 3 good toons if you ask me.

regarding the defense i agree. it would be very tough for them, but this would be easy to fix. give them some kind of bonus if they went 2nd like healshield, damage reduction or something like that and that could balance out the holds a little more. but yeah, changes have to be subtile and thoughtout. it's not a good idea too nerf every toon out there, but as mentioned, for the sake of diversity, and healthy game development it's simply necassary in some cases, but that's only my opinion. other creative and game saving solutions are always welcome.

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Originally Posted by slauki

the set of skills is way too much imo. revive party, endure, and renewing shield every round, enough for 3 good toons if you ask me.

regarding the defense i agree. it would be very tough for them, but this would be easy to fix. give them some kind of bonus if they went 2nd like healshield, damage reduction or something like that and that could balance out the holds a little more. but yeah, changes have to be subtile and thoughtout. it's not a good idea too nerf every toon out there, but as mentioned, for the sake of diversity, and healthy game development it's simply necassary in some cases, but that's only my opinion. other creative and game saving solutions are always welcome.

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I was thinking about to create a sort of categories battle. For instance on Monday it allows fights between warriors, Tuesday sentinel, and so on, till Friday were all categories are admitted again till Sunday night.

Dunno doesn't seem a bad idea, it really could give more variety to the game and prisoner op teams ll be playable only in a short timeline, giving more chance to overtake the ranks from bottoms levels.