Suspect Discussion: Prisoner

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Originally Posted by Nicko

This has been suggested a couple times. I really like the way CanyptianFit framed it; affecting both teams first round only. Gives the opposing team equal ground in the first round and then maintains some of his specialness after by only affecting other team. Great idea

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that could be a really interesting approach, since this would let him pretty strong and bring more balance in. i could live with that solution too.

but i think, the devs have already some talismans solution in mind, which they will implement when BNW comes out anyway. but some interesting talismans would give the game more depth, that's why i would give them a chance.

only thing i'm afraid of is that this will take very long, till this is finished. unfortunatly PVP seems to be frozen atm, till they figure out what to be done.

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Originally Posted by Nicko

This has been suggested a couple times. I really like the way CanyptianFit framed it; affecting both teams first round only. Gives the opposing team equal ground in the first round and then maintains some of his specialness after by only affecting other team. Great idea

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That's a good way to do it. It makes sense to start with this change, and if it proves to be too little, they can make it so that it affects both teams for more (or all) rounds.

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Originally Posted by konstifik

That's a good way to do it. It makes sense to start with this change, and if it proves to be too little, they can make it so that it affects both teams for more (or all) rounds.

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I like a spinoff idea of this: Leave Prisoner's passive alone but have it kick in on the 2nd round instead of immediately. Gives opponents a fighting chance to set something up and leaves his powerful ability in tact. This will also still leave him almost unchanged in PVE.

If it were easier to get the Prisioner, this post would not exist. That simple . All this starts with the ridiculous DropRate of JokeofSouls.
This situation of this particular character is comical to see and sad for those who face a team like that of PizzaFryday, Nicko, Demonchind .. even more if they start attacking .. I do not even bothered more, I even laugh.

Before launching the arena, I imagined something else of what it is today, imagining a room where players entered and faced 100% without AI (defense in the case). Each using what's best for each type of battle, not this system set up a kind of team for defense and simply facing players who can choose what they will use in battle. I know ... It's too weird for me.

To be honest, I do not even care about raking, I care about the coins I win, choosing my opponents (another thing I think is ridiculous in this arena, choosing an opponent).

I expect many improvements in the game a long time, improvements that I say is for players and not for developers ($$$)

Another potential solution.

The problem we are trying to address is not the prisoner by himself, it is the prisoner coupled with the perfect passive that makes him deadly. Him coupled with certain passives essentially negates any chance for a turn/hit.

How about an alternate solution were we leave the prisoner unaltered, but we alter the perfect passives and the accuracy passives so that they are disabled by any prisoner on either side.

Just like the prisoner has a note (does not work on bosses), those 2 passives could have a note (disabled/removed by ANY prisoner).

This addresses the core issue, leaves him untouched.

Do you void the passives skills altogether both rounds? (Accuracy and perfect are 2 round buffs)

Just remove first round?

Other passives that should be included beyond the 2 mentioned?

Include the Siege Passive as one that negates Perfects and Accuracy during first round?

Trying to think outside the box.

Cheers!

I struggle with the idea of putting a toon in a line up that would have an adverse effect on my own team.

Having him shut down my own passives? I would rather find something else for that slot.

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Originally Posted by BillLion

I like a spinoff idea of this: Leave Prisoner's passive alone but have it kick in on the 2nd round instead of immediately. Gives opponents a fighting chance to set something up and leaves his powerful ability in tact. This will also still leave him almost unchanged in PVE.

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this is probably too much a nerf. Prisoner would be dead by the second round.

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Originally Posted by calizario

If it were easier to get the Prisioner, this post would not exist. That simple . All this starts with the ridiculous DropRate of JokeofSouls.

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I think this is wrong - if everyone had the prisoner, everyone would be using him, and it would be very boring having to fight the same defense all the time.

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Originally Posted by CanyptianFit

Another potential solution.

The problem we are trying to address is not the prisoner by himself, it is the prisoner coupled with the perfect passive that makes him deadly. Him coupled with certain passives essentially negates any chance for a turn/hit.

How about an alternate solution were we leave the prisoner unaltered, but we alter the perfect passives and the accuracy passives so that they are disabled by any prisoner on either side.

Just like the prisoner has a note (does not work on bosses), those 2 passives could have a note (disabled/removed by ANY prisoner).

This addresses the core issue, leaves him untouched.

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This is also a good idea - I agree that the problem isn't just with the Prisoner, it's the combination of him with DM & freeze/stunners (which also won't be as bad once the multi-hit proc issue gets fixed).

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Originally Posted by BillLion

I like a spinoff idea of this: Leave Prisoner's passive alone but have it kick in on the 2nd round instead of immediately. Gives opponents a fighting chance to set something up and leaves his powerful ability in tact. This will also still leave him almost unchanged in PVE.

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Almost unchanged for someone who don't use it, most passives are one round buff, would let him useless at the only thing he does...
On another hand since his only counter is self applying it to both teams first turn would give the same chance as if you have one giving time to set immunity/shield then act as intended on next turn...

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Originally Posted by CanyptianFit

Another potential solution.

How about an alternate solution were we leave the prisoner unaltered, but we alter the perfect passives and the accuracy passives so that they are disabled by any prisoner on either side.

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Think it's overcomplicating things for nothing,
If there's no passive first round it gives chance to kill/counter any such combo, DM have something like 20k health in best case not 40... If you can't counter with a no passive first turn to use a shield or something problem isn't the DM or prisoner...


We'll all that taking into account the multiple hits nerf to come that will change perspective on that prisoner/DM by a good margin making Golden Sons way less scary...

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Originally Posted by CanyptianFit

Another potential solution.

The problem we are trying to address is not the prisoner by himself, it is the prisoner coupled with the perfect passive that makes him deadly. Him coupled with certain passives essentially negates any chance for a turn/hit.

How about an alternate solution were we leave the prisoner unaltered, but we alter the perfect passives and the accuracy passives so that they are disabled by any prisoner on either side.

Just like the prisoner has a note (does not work on bosses), those 2 passives could have a note (disabled/removed by ANY prisoner).

This addresses the core issue, leaves him untouched.

Do you void the passives skills altogether both rounds? (Accuracy and perfect are 2 round buffs)

Just remove first round?

Other passives that should be included beyond the 2 mentioned?

Include the Siege Passive as one that negates Perfects and Accuracy during first round?

Trying to think outside the box.

Cheers!

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Boy, you're full of great ideas! Neutering the first round of Perfect Hit and accuracy sounds like a really fair solution. It's really that combo, combined with the broken Talismans, that have people up in arms

I was thinking along same lines. Leave prisoner alone. Instead modify axis bomber boys focus/increased accuracy passive to include overriding passive aggressive skill

Similar to when you apply blind to desert marauder, his perfect hit passive overrides it.