Trooper Store Limits... the Final Nail in the Coffin...

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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Not buying your explanation :) I would agree for ''random'' thing while getting EXACTLY random stuff of each pool of souls while repeated... That way could get some of the chars the same, other different, totally different, or all the same (with very small probability - but still), however you don't wanted it to happen - once pulled and repated 1000 times (due to disconnecting off your servers) - the result will be exactly the same - so where's random number generation gone? That's a kind of magic... Sure... I know - you've applied some algorithms for the ''good sake'' of players - to prevent cheating :)... Yet it seems that you're the ones who ''cheat''... with random things, which seem to NOT as random as they should be... As you guys have the HELL options to ''tweak'' the outcoming ''trials'' anyway you want...

I see that you not going to share how ''generous'' the odds may be? That's a pitty, really :) And this only confirms what I have written in my above post to you...

Cheers,

W

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Originally Posted by Witkacy

Good evening, Kaz :)
[One mans experience,based on 77 souls]

Cheers,

W

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First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M

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Originally Posted by Dank Brew

As usual I get ignored again. I'll take that as a yes

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...Maybe you should consider...taking at least a break?...it's getting over your head a bit too much, mate...honestly

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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Kaz is right, it's just how RNG works.

Think of it this way, when you flip a coin the odds are 50% you're going to get the side you want. But flipping twice won't guarantee it. You could get lucky and hit your side first flip, or get extremely unlucky and flip 5+ times never seeing it. Doesn't mean the odds have changed in either case, you're just making determinations based on tiny sample sizes.

Like he says, in order to see true odds you need a giant sample, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of pulls.

I used to play digital trading card apps with odds that were actually stated and had to explain this to people so many times. Cards would be listed as 10%, people would open 10, not get it and claim the odds were rigged. It's just not how math works when randomness is involved. Can get lucky and hit the card first try, or get unlucky not seeing it after 50 attempts. Small sample sizes will show huge deviations based on luck.

I'd put getting a 4* bot in forged to fight (highest rank over there) around 1-2% in the basic crystals in that game (similar to rare souls here). So yeah, sometimes you'll get lucky and hit a 4* with minimal crystals, but you can also get unlucky, open 100+ and never see one. Doesn't mean the odds are changing, you're just looking at a tiny slice of the pie. Same goes here.

It's just like gambling on slot machines, etc in a casino. There's odds, but randomness also plays a major role.

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

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It's not that big a deal to me, just trying to get you to understand where everyone is coming from. I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

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i still believe that this would be the perfect occasion to finally give us some customer/supplier satisfaction. What is there to loose if you guarantee a path to it... why not change your mind for once and make him a guarantee in the one Time Soul...

We have already spent the time and efforts to get him... all those hours 50 Troopers everyday... what more can you expect???

Would this hurt your company? Probably not as much as it would please your customers...

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Originally Posted by Mizrael

First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M

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Marku :)

First off... That what I've written were just EXAMPLES, first off head... So there's not true about my experience with 77 souls... That's cool you've opened them in amount of quadrillions... I honestly DON'T know how many opened them so far - A LOT - seems, fair?
As for gambling - I am NOT a gambler, and NEVER do anything I am not SURE I can win - one and only exception - can be shoot for sports (and for the prizes given to friends:)) at the shooting gallery... But that's it... There's NO gambling in this - just skills...

What can I say? I am TRULLY happy of your pulls, man! I think you deserved to have all these great chars... I haven't been as lucky as you - still don't have ANY assassin Eddie (besides 2x getting Storm, which ended up in the hole)... This only shows that ones being more lucky than others, despite playing the similar period of time... I am NOT surprised that you no complaing NOW - since you get almost all what you've wanted anyway... I am NOT complaing either, despite all this you've read in my post... I've just reffered to Kaz's post about droprates and shared SOME of my experience in that subject... Asked for some comments... That's it... And the fact I do NOT agree with some opinions being posted - well - I have such right, Am I?

So you don't have to ''defend'' anymore... As for Trooper Eddie... May be cool, no doubt - no interested of getting him (or anything else) right now - just enjoy my time :)

Miłego wieczoru ;)

Pozdro,

W

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Originally Posted by Chaosego888

I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

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I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.

I know this is the unpopular opinion on Trooper Eddie, but I don't really see it being that much of a problem. I'm guessing we'll be able to buy fragments weekly just like the arena store. For the record, I don't care what you guys do with it.

The people who are raising concerns are respectable players and forum members though, so I think taking their opinions into consideration is worthwhile.

First of all, thank you Kaz and Sparton for trying to slow down the runaway train. Obviously, we're all very passionate about the game and Maiden lore. I chased CG for a year, Prisoner took almost that long to get and just summoned Nomad last week. The RNG is a pain but I myself must not mind the chase because I am still here. Guess I've accepted that it's a gamble. While the odds are never in our favor nor as generous as some say they were initially, I agree that we see more ways now to aquire the opportunity to take our chances.

Secondly, Jofers explanation of the RNG system makes complete sense and none of us have pulled enough of all souls to get an accurate figure on drop rates. The sample sizes are too small even in the 1000+ range, a number which I would find hard to believe many of us have surpassed more than once in a years time in the Legendary, GA or Rare classes.

Lastly, as upsetting as it was to pull one Eternal dupe, I was lucky enough to go 4/5 with Eternals. For those who know that frustration to greater extent, this dupe prevention feature will be a much appreciated addition to the game and I genuinely hope that it brings players like J back into the fold. Although bugs had a part and are a reason a bunch people have left, I believe 3 dupe Beelzebub pulls were the short straws that broke the camel in half in his case, respectively.

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

It would be a bit more of "chasing" than RNG, but randomness would still play a role and for those of us who have chased chars for the better part of a year, a welcome alternative to RNG in the BoS. So I guess, since this is an open forum and for the most part, one of the more contsructive threads we've had, it is more so your thoughts on expanding our options within the game, in that collecting aspect, that I'm asking about.

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Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB

I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.

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OK. Cool and thanks for the Duplicate prevention idea also.