February 14th 2017 PVP Arena Update Discussion

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Originally Posted by Nekroliun

Yea, scratch what i said earlier abou hoe "pvp is the most fun ive ever head!", cuz its the most shit rage inducing thing that i ever stumbled upon, ignoring the prisoner (cuz he doesnt seem like a problem to me since my team barely has passives, only thrill and impct (and impact negates thrill)), the main problem i have is that how i go second 70% of the tome, which 90% of the time means opponent won due to the death of blue soldier/nomad/golden son....

Its just annoying how going first is just so game defining! Imo, whoever goes second should get some kind of buff. Like in hearthstone, where second gets a coin and an extra card...

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Trust me on this one: Going second is normally not a problem - all you need is a lot of green. Basically you need to prepare your team that it can take the first hit - you will figure it out. Once you've done that you also will start to hate Chuck "The Prisoner" Norris because going 2nd in this case is quite often definitely a loss.

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Originally Posted by slauki

so we have the third discussion thread about the prisoner now...isn't this strange...might this toon maybe cause some serious trouble?

i have said everything i wanted to say to this topic, so i won't repeat it. only one theoretical argument/repetition:

if you have a strategy which cannot be coutered, that is OP by definition, period. and prisoner allows you 20 strategies which cannot be countered when going 2nd (and not even talking about his offense qualities...) so this is clearly wrong from a strategic perspective. even if you have one you cannot fully counter him.
siege is also a problem, if don't have a prisoner, because same applies to a much smaller degree.

so something has to be done soon about both issues. waiting for BNW in 2 months isn't a proper solution. other toons goot adjusted too (rightfully) why not the most OP toon? really curious about it.

If he just wouldn't remove immunity things would be fine, but he takes everything you need to survive. that's way too OP.

yeah, some might gt into top 10 even without the prisoner, but it will cost them at least twice as much resources as someone without him. that's really not an argument, that other can make it too, when 80% of all top 25 player have him.

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I've been watching the GMAC/Jofer16 battle and to say the guy without a Prisoner is having to "outspend" the guy with a Prisoner is not giving GMAC enough credit. They're rising at the same rate. Could it be that he's figured out a strategy to "outsmart" the Prisoner?

Perhaps he uses two AoS and one can cast Invincibility continuously. Who knows - and I don't think he should tell us. But point being they've been rising at the same rate all day, so if GMAC was losing a lot more battles he should be rising slower.

I realize he could be just paying to hit refresh to bring up more non-Prisoner teams, but I will say from experience - he attacks me a lot - so I don't think that's what he's doing.

And your math is wrong on the top 25 ;)

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Originally Posted by Nicko

I've been watching the GMAC/Jofer16 battle and to say the guy without a Prisoner is having to "outspend" the guy with a Prisoner is not giving GMAC enough credit. They're rising at the same rate. Could it be that he's figured out a strategy to "outsmart" the Prisoner?

Perhaps he uses two AoS and one can cast Invincibility continuously. Who knows - and I don't think he should tell us. But point being they've been rising at the same rate all day, so if GMAC was losing a lot more battles he should be rising slower.

I realize he could be just paying to hit refresh to bring up more non-Prisoner teams, but I will say from experience - he attacks me a lot - so I don't think that's what he's doing.

And your math is wrong on the top 25 ;)

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I still would like to see their defense stats.

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Originally Posted by Nicko

I don't think I've beaten you five times. I do see I've held you three out of the last four - but that's not five ��

I swapped out my Corrupt General for a Souless Demon and people seem to be struggling more with it - probably cause its new. Normally I don't hold you this much

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+1 you revenged. 5:3 now. If you can see it, you don't get too much of attacks. That is sort of the point I'll make. I see you utilized ssd, good, that cg killed your team on voids.

Fight for the top is nice, this bla bla is just spam after points have been made.

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Originally Posted by Caretaker

+1 you revenged. 5:3 now. If you can see it, you don't get too much of attacks. That is sort of the point I'll make. I see you utilized ssd, good, that cg killed your team on voids.

Fight for the top is nice, this bla bla is just spam after points have been made.

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Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)

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Originally Posted by Nicko

After he won Killhouse wrote a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it may not be.


I will vouch SilentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

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Hey Nicko, would you happen to know where Killhouse's write up is? I would love to read that.

And still waiting on that small (ok, BIG) favor which I requested of you via PM. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nicko

Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)

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gmac 120 points down now ... would be very intersting now to see who is getting attacked more from other players going for the final push.

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Originally Posted by Nicko

After he won Killhouse wrote a very well-written analysis of his PvP strategy. It would be interesting if GMAC and ShaolinLondo did the same.

I prefaced my comment by saying of course the Prisoner makes things easier. But a non-Prisoner team has passed me and frankly may even win the competition this week. So my point was it's doable. Harder? Yes. Worth it? To GMAC obviously it is. To others it may not be.


I will vouch SilentKnight attacks me repeatedly ;)

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Didn't found his strategy comments, where is it?

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Originally Posted by ToTameAGame

Pffff - GO gmac!

You are number 1 and not number 6! You don't have a prisoner - you play with FREE MEN!

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Jofer's going all the way! He's nature's beast! Does what he wants and does what he pleases!

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Originally Posted by BonFire

Jofer's going all the way! He's nature's beast! Does what he wants and does what he pleases!

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Just after 2 minutes to midnight (GMT) we will know for sure who's name shall be hallowed!

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Originally Posted by IceManFerrar

Hey Nicko, would you happen to know where Killhouse's write up is? I would love to read that.

And still waiting on that small (ok, BIG) favor which I requested of you via PM. ;)

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http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/sh...7532#post27532

And I will definitely get back to you on your request;)

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Originally Posted by Nicko

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/sh...7532#post27532

And I will definitely get back to you on your request;)

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Thank you so much, Nicko, you are DA best!:cool:

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Originally Posted by ToTameAGame

Pffff - GO gmac!

You are number 1 and not number 6! You don't have a prisoner - you play with FREE MEN!

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Go GMAC! He is one of my troopers, so definitely gets my support and cheering on! Lol! :)

Hm, that was a good read. I had a Sentinel Rescuer at one point, but I didn't have the skill shards on him.

Oh, Nicko, just wanna say your run during the beta of being number 1 was legendary to me.

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Originally Posted by Nicko

Thanks for validating me on the Voids! That was my concern. Wish we could watch our defensive teams in action.

And yes you - AND GMAC - just beat me ;)

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Here you go! One you've won by the hair
Attachment 2484

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Originally Posted by Nicko

http://forum.ironmaidenlegacy.com/sh...7532#post27532

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So, a former No1 told us that he did it spending hundreds of ironites, time, and also avoided prisoners.

What else should I keep from this post?

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Originally Posted by Aristo4

So, a former No1 told us that he did it spending hundreds of ironites, time, and also avoided prisoners.

What else should I keep from this post?

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It's not for you - you're a professional ;)

It was also written after the first week of PvP. Anyone from beta knows most of this.

People requested it after I referenced it. And I referenced it when people said you need a Prisoner to be at the top - but GMAC is at the top - so it would be cool if he made some comments about his run

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Originally Posted by BonFire

Hm, that was a good read. I had a Sentinel Rescuer at one point, but I didn't have the skill shards on him.

Oh, Nicko, just wanna say your run during the beta of being number 1 was legendary to me.

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Thanks! But Pizza Friday was the king of beta. I think any infamy I had was more from that Desert Maurader - Gunner Golden Son - Tailgunner combo. The Thief and Freeze Talismans would trigger with each hit of the golden son, so basically the entire opposing team would get frozen and Tailgunners Fury would get filled with one perfect hit - which the Desert Maurader provided. Tailgunner s fury is brutal.

They of course fixed the Talismans, but I remember testing that defense when I put it together and said "Holy $hi+" :D

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Originally Posted by Caretaker

Here you go! One you've won by the hair
Attachment 2484

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Those are the most fun battles!

Is it possible for your defense team to go first when testing it? Every time I've tested mine, I end up going first and therefore don't truly get to test the potential of my defense team.

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Originally Posted by Nicko

I referenced it when people said you need a Prisoner to be at the top - but GMAC is at the top - so it would be cool if he made some comments about his run

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If someone needs to attack 785 times a week, spend 3000 ironite and spend 80 hours a week (semi random numbers) to get on top without a prisoner then all these are further arguments why the FN Gimp should be shot dead, not the opposite.

Attachment 2485

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Originally Posted by Tritium

Is it possible for your defense team to go first when testing it? Every time I've tested mine, I end up going first and therefore don't truly get to test the potential of my defense team.

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Luck of the draw. They do go first theoretically half the time

Hi Guys,

Jofer is just too fast, can´t catch him. He scores points at will. I´m fast but he´s real freak!

I wish I could have gone one better without The Prisoner.

Gonna read the posts now.

Jofer, if you read this, I can´t believe you made it this far first week on the Arena. We need more players like you. Congratulations!!! This was fun!

And Saturdays are the future for the Arena.

Be right back.

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Originally Posted by Gmac

Hi Guys,

Jofer is just too fast, can´t catch him. He scores points at will. I´m fast but he´s real freak!

I wish I could have gone one better without The Prisoner.

Gonna read the posts now.

Jofer, if you read this, I can´t believe you made it this far first week on the Arena. We need more players like you. Congratulations!!! This was fun!

And Saturdays are the future for the Arena.

Be right back.

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Hey man - great run! Congrats to both you guys!

Not the luck on first turn, but Spar's trickeries. First turn is method of those attack/heal/buff categories. That's why you fell some teams allways go first on you. I'm not wicked enough to count, but if there is an enthusiast, we can crack it. Sparton can call me silly wright now.

Great run guys! Loved it.

Oh, and people! How do you like the refreshed list? Good luck coming up ;)

What a read on a Saturday. First full PVP week. When I joined PVP beta late, I was lucky to have a 10% defense rate, first week here it's 30%.

So I don't have a prisoner, and finished eighth once in beta and 14th this week without spending a ton of ironite.

It's all strategy. There are times I have 2 characters left against 4 and pull it off (prisoner/blue Bat included).

I always go against prisoners. Without fear. I have a team ready for them. I always clear out my entire attack list, to get the 2 free SOW. I attack all the top players and usually win. Ask them.

I've been playing this game since July and understand the characters and the AI. PvP isn't for the faint of heart. I take calculated risks and often times it pays.

You asked for win rates for someone without a prisoner? 94%. (245/260).

I have 2 sets of teams. One for people with Prisoner/Blue Bat, and one for people that that allow me to have passives [that team is largely colored red :) ]. I do tweak them slightly depending upon opponents.

This game is totally strategy. You need a ton of equipped toons, while I hate the RNG I've been lucky to get the red troll, hellhound, blue Bat, corr gen, and a few others. I have 35 5* toons.

There is a learning curve, but study the AI, make sure you balance out the talismans. I've largely invested my resources in skill shards, over 100 of em, versus going for souls.

PvP is totally different from PvE. My beloved characters in PvE, some of them, don't even come into play in PvP. I never bring them in as their skills don't fit.

Don't give up, but don't force your favorites thinking they will win. You will need to try different characters with different talisman builds to get a groove going.

I finished 14th and spent a little bit of ironite (maybe one refill of SoW each day) but only essentially what you get each day. I generally net more ironite each day than I use. For full disclosure Saturday sometimes gets multiple refills. 😝

Feel free to check out my team and builds. We all have different styles, so what works for me may not for others but this game is darn fun.

BTW, Nicko, you changed to a SSD because his taunt rate is broken. Everyone gradually shifted to him over time, I commented about that on another thread.

Here's to another fun week ahead! Cheers all!

Here is what it took for top 25. Don't mind the fun I had testing Nicko's like defences. 10:3 for Nicko!

Attachment 2486

Caretaker, our stats are VERY close. You can guess that from our win rates and our ranking.

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Caretaker

Here is what it took for top 25. Don't mind the fun I had testing Nicko's like defences. 10:3 for Nicko!

Attachment 2486

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I held you 10 times? Didn't seem like that!

And Canyptian - great write up!

My results after first week of pvp.
I think i start to get the hang of how to counterplay teams with prisoner and troll now :)
I have neither of those chars.
Attachment 2487

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Originally Posted by Patrice-1201

What annoys me the most is the way the AI works in PVP, for instance last night I have a 21 Wins streak before going to bed and as I woke up I had 17 losses on Revenge... basically it is an AI issue because I get my wins even if I start second with a Prisoner against me but as soon as the game plays for me, I loose and loose about 1000 points.

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Well to prove my point, I have been away for a few hours and lost 500 points!!!! To me this is worse than the prisoner discussion... of course I use the same team for my defense as for my attack so why I are we mostly winning on offense and loosing on defense this is not right

Patrice, my defense is TOTALLY different from my offense, ah, hypothetically. 😝, not to give away any strategy or anything.

I think everyone lost 500 points during reset.
Also you make the choices in offensive team and ai do them for defense. Choose chars based on that and have aome synergy.

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Originally Posted by Browno

I think everyone lost 500 points during reset.
Also you make the choices in offensive team and ai do them for defense. Choose chars based on that and have aome synergy.

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The loss was before the reset...

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Originally Posted by Browno

My results after first week of pvp.
I think i start to get the hang of how to counterplay teams with prisoner and troll now :)
I have neither of those chars.
Attachment 2487

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These are nice statistics but they are a bit pointless if we cannot compare them to the defense stats of the top Prisoner teams. These stats would be very interesting:

- Do they get attacked that often as well?
- Is the percentage of their defense higher?

Well, my statistics:

I have finished 15th, I have no troll (red nor purple), I have no Prisoner, I have no Corrupt general. I wish I had them.
Attachment 2488

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Originally Posted by ToTameAGame

...

PvP = Prisoner vs Peasants
...

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well, on one of my accounts, i have a prisoner and easily reached top 100.

my other account i don't have him and even without prisoner and made good.
Most of my fights i did not win due to my prisoner, but because of the fact, that 3 out of 4 members of my team have invisibility talismans. (a good talisman combo and a good eddie - i play viking there - and you're good.

in point of defense, there are much harder combos to beat: (as prisoner is single target and if fought precisely, he's dead in no time)
troll ? Yes, he's heavy to beat.
Corrupt general? not really that hard to beat.
Red angel? if ai times him right, he's deadly!
Blue allied soldier? Even he is a heavy enemy.
Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.
Grim Reaper? Yes, he can provide very long fights, you sometimes have to get a draw instead of a loss.
Mummy? One of the hardest eddies i've encounterd so far.

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Originally Posted by satani

well, on one of my accounts, i have a prisoner and easily reached top 100.

my other account i don't have him and even without prisoner and made good.
Most of my fights i did not win due to my prisoner, but because of the fact, that 3 out of 4 members of my team have invisibility talismans. (a good talisman combo and a good eddie - i play viking there - and you're good.

in point of defense, there are much harder combos to beat: (as prisoner is single target and if fought precisely, he's dead in no time)
troll ? Yes, he's heavy to beat.
Corrupt general? not really that hard to beat.
Red angel? if ai times him right, he's deadly!
Blue allied soldier? Even he is a heavy enemy.
Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.
Grim Reaper? Yes, he can provide very long fights, you sometimes have to get a draw instead of a loss.
Mummy? One of the hardest eddies i've encounterd so far.

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Would you be so kind a post the statistics of both accounts?

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Originally Posted by satani

Pharaoh? Thought, he would be hard,but yet is pretty easy to beat.

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I'm super disappointed with how Pharaoh performs w/ AI. Fury -check? Should I make my team invincible? Nah -I think I'll single attack someone that is currently invincible themselves! Ridiculous. :D He should/could be good. Also it seems like the recent tuning actually decreased his healing on revive all for allies that have not died. Can anyone else confirm? I wonder if this was the intent?