This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.
You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.
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This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.
You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.
finally astra will get her power move adjusted....at least something, no i can die happy :p
So, does this mean there's a new immunity type and the Blue Lilith grants it to counter the HP block?
Are there other ways to grant this new immunity?
Well the Astra nerf was inevitable. I don't really care since I stopped using her a while ago, but hooray you guys got what you wanted lol.
Immunity to reduce max health because why not ��
The whole, sleep effect thing sounds basically like stun but if you take damage it'll go away, so..... go team?
Valor Talismans... WTF GUYS????? THAT IS SO COOL!!!
Before someone loses their head, logically speaking, only a few characters can use these talismans, the increase health buff can be stolen/removed, AND if you don't have golden buffs then no worries.
Besides, they'll probably cost like $25 the first time you see them so no biggie lmao
6 set talismans though.. hmm.. all safeguard??? yeah..... Because there's not a whole lot of toons with 3 required red slots. And there'd be no way to equip all 6 otherwise. So... seems specifically designed for WUR/CotD/Ragna/Crimean Soldier or maybe Tailgunner/Samurai/Holy Smoke/RTTH Eddie if they aren't all Safeguards. If they are all Safeguard.. then pretty much.... WUR or Crimean Soldier.
Or maybe with the Hallowed Eddie change that set is designed to help that lackluster character since it has really not been celebrated at all since release. A better Hallowed Eddie change would be to add a couple mutli-target attacks.
Oh I know.. the 6 set warrior talisman set is for the Hunter Wickerdeer dog! :)
Sentinel Lilith, not Magus Lilith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yup
It works like the Valkyrie passives in that it's just a general prevention of the effect while Sentinel Lilith is alive and not Passive Disabled.
Ahh sorry.. S Lilith.. ... So it's a passive, not a buff. Got it. Thanks.
I disagree Hallowed Eddie is “lackluster”. He’s my main PvP Eddie. I think he has one of the best Fury moves in the game. He’s underrated if anything, and the talisman color change is unnecessary and essentially a major nerf... Again developers making an unnecessary change to a character nobody asked to be changed nor needed changing.
if you say so.. it's really only a nerf for those that acquire Hallowed Eddie after the update. :)
I have tested HE a lot.. he just doesn't hold a candle to 25 of the other Eddies. (there's 30 Eddies Total) There's about 5 that are .. meh... and he's one of them. All single target hits... including fury... not great for PVP if you ask me. But to each his (or her) own. :)
I'm interested in the changes to Ragna and The Wicker Man. Ragna is a BEAST vs the BNW bosses (especially GOF), all she really needs is multiple hits like the others. The Wicker Man, it all remains to be seen if this change is a nerf or a buff. I thought he was ok, but others disagreed. Sometimes these "buffs" make a niche character totally useless.
So Sentinel Lilith will now also Grant Immunity to Reduce Max HP effects and Sleep Status for all Allies as well as heals all allies based on her Max HP when taking damage?
"Characters with the sleep effect will be featured in future content".... hmm, I wonder how far is this future content and what does it mean..?!
I’m really looking forward for the new Sentinel Lilith passive, as its currently the only Lilith I got and she’ll be pretty usefull (not that now it isn’t).
Great to see that it is not all about nerfs anymore, a welcome change!
yeah i have to say the counter to reducing hp are resonable and very welcome. everything looks fine on paper i think.
one questions: are you guys aware, that the ghost talis trigger sometimes even the char who has them has enough hp?
yeah i have to say the counters to reducing hp are resonable and very welcomed. everything looks fine on paper i think.
one questions: are you guys aware, that the ghost talis trigger sometimes even the char who has them has enough hp?
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by 90mphyorker
Are you talking about the possibility of going Ghost when reduced to something like 1% of Max HP? There is some "on kill" effect cleanup I've scheduled to do for the upcoming release that may fix a case along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
no, my blue lilith ghost herself when she gets some extra turns sometimes. will try to record it but i haven't seen a pattern yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
she has enough health and only by attacking she tiggers the soul talisman effects, without losing heath!
I think there should be more counters to the HP block....
Bastion and S Lilith aren't enough. Bastion is fairly worthless and while S Lilith is a decent character, she's too specific overall. It amounts to giving a much needed ability to something like the Angry Bird toons - it's not a bad idea to do that.. but it needs to be expanded a bit.
Let me know of the time when you finish a match and that bug happens and I can see if we can grab info from that match to help track down the bug.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
It may be that a different bug we have logged has the same underlying problem, but in any case, more info to add to our internal bug tracker may help with narrowing down the cause.
Well, we don't want to give that effect to just everyone (it would trivialize the value of things like Assassin Corrupt Rescuer and Necropolis Talismans if team-wide immunity was trivial to throw into a team), but certainly we'll keep that in mind. We just wanna start small and work from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yup
Absolutely understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
But since the Necropolis talismans can grant the ability to a wide range of characters, a counter-talisman set may be worthwhile. Or add the ability to the Heal talismans or something. Just equal proliferation of a counter is all I'm thinking.
Will there be any attention given to fixes/issues that arose from last months update? Namely buff stealers stealing incorrect amounts of buffs and Revenge characters and their absurd % chance to counter any and all attacks including ally attacks?
We have fixes to certain buff stealers stealing incorrect amounts already noted in the preliminary patch notes. Previous reports I've seen of this are already listed in these notes or were found to not actually be a bug, just a misunderstanding to the functionality of skills/effects being employed. If you have a more specific example of something that isn't in the preliminary notes, do let us know the specifics of the problem you're running into and we can investigate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormseye
Regarding revenge chance, please keep in mind that every hit of damage has it's own independent proc chance for Revenge or Counter. As such, if you're fighting 4 enemies and one of those enemies has Revenge:
- If you use a single target attack against the one enemy with Revenge, there is a 0% chance to Revenge
- If you use a single target, single hit attack against one enemy that doesn't have Revenge, there is a 35% chance to Revenge
- If you use an all-enemy attack that does one hit of damage (such as Sentinel Soulless Demon's Provoke), there is a 72.35% chance to Revenge (three successive 35% chances, since 3 of the 4 enemies can trigger Revenge for the Revenger)
- If you use an all-enemy attack that does five hits of damage (such as Piece of Mind Eddie's Frenzy), there is a 99.84% chance to Revenge (3 * 5 successive 35% chances, because 3 enemies are potentially triggering revenge 5 times each)
It's very important to keep in mind number of hits as the trigger condition for Counter or Revenge when team building and when choosing skills, as otherwise you will just be causing yourself a lot of problems. This isn't a bug; this is how the Counter and Revenge system is implemented to specifically discourage indiscriminate skill usage (based on the examples above, bringing Piece of Mind Eddie in against enemies with Revenge is probably a terrible idea).
Regarding "counter[ing] [...] ally attacks", I don't know of any reports along those lines other than bugs that were solved months ago. If you have more specific details about that, we'd be happy to hear and investigate them (if they are of sufficient detail to be able to be investigated). Information about when the problem occurred (as exact as possible) and/or screenshots of the problem go a long way to investigating problems like this.
This is exactly why I stick to single target hitters, you can just take them out first and there's no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
Actually, I posted something about this. I've seen it with WUR with counterstrike talismans. Also seen Sentinel Mayan Priestess revenging when she was targeted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
The specific cases appear to be:
1) WUR with counterstrike. Use a single target hitter to hit one of his allies and do enough damage that he takes damage and he then attacks as though he was hit directly.
2) Use a single target hitter to hit Sentinel Mayan Priestess. Do enough damage that it transfers to the blocker on the defense and she then revenges as though the other toon was attacked.
I believe the revenge also happens sometimes with DoT effects, not certain about the WUR. So both counterstrike and revenge appear to be bugged, unless this is the way it's meant to work.
As I noted above, the hits of damage is what matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askora
If the result of your attack is hitting an enemy with Counter (your first example), then you could be on the receiving end of a Counter.
If the result of your attack is hitting a teammate of someone with Revenge (your second example), then you could be on the receiving end of a Revenge.
Revenge and Counter don't care about who you target; they care about who is taking damage, and how many times damage is being taken (otherwise, you start getting into silly territory like "I used an AoE attack that affects all enemies, but I targeted the person with Revenge, so it shouldn't revenge!"). The trigger condition is, technically speaking, "an instance damage done to character with Counter", or "an instance of damage done to the teammate of someone with Revenge", with each trigger running it's own check to see if the reaction should occur.
That would be a bit more concerning, as I don't think we have anything in our bug system for countering/revenging based on DoT damage (as DoT damage not an enemy doing damage to you, technically speaking). If you have more information about a scenario of that happening, that may be something we can investigate, but I'd need more specifics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askora
I'll have to see if I can create a scenario for that. I don't often use DoT effects, so doesn't often happen to me but I have seen it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
Surprised no one mentioned it but this seems like a very light update as well. We are getting to the point where there are not many character changes and if you noticed almost all the changes are for characters that were brought up by the community. I think it is a positive sign that shows they do listen to some of our opinions.
couldn't reproduce this in the last session, will let you know once it happends again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
but found two more things (match time is incuded in the name of the pictures):
1. red lilith doesn't stun every time if the opponent has 3 or more burns. is that intended? realized it first time today two or three times (gpd should be stunned in the picture):
Attachment 4519
2. shadow talisman have some issues or maybe it'S desert marauder. the perfect hit status come up again after it was removes for some reason. saw this twice today on wrath and on astra:
Attachment 4520
Just another reason for me to keep avoiding teams with her in then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
What time zone are you? I was going to pass along the info to look up, but without a timezone, the 24 hour time in your images could be any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
What are the sources of the burns on those enemies? It's important to note that Deny's requirement requires 3 or more physical burns on the enemy. The Piece of Mind Eddie has more than 3 burns, so he likely meets that requirement, but the Golden Pharaoh Dog has exactly 3 burns... is it possible that he had 3 physical burns, cleansed one with his basic, and then got a non-physical burn applied to him?Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
(I'll make a note that we should ensure the basic "Physical Burn", "Magical Burn", and "True Burn" should get unique icons, because the distinction matters in cases like this.)
Perfect Hit + Class Advantage looks like the results of an Advantage Talisman augment (50% chance to apply those on perfect basic attacks).Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Are the changes to Ragna active already? I'm asking because I have her doing some seriously high damage with the right talisman setup. I don't think her basic needs any more damage than it does right now, it just needs to be broken up into several hits.
Do you have any plans to make the Arena Talismans available anywhere else in the game?
Want a set of Fate Talismans (and many others) but kinda hard to spend 3000 IC on them when it’ll make me fall even further behind in the Relics arms war.
I know you keep saying IC’s will available in Gauntlet, but that could still be months away. Really think these Talismans should drop in BNW as well now. Or even in Skull Quests.
joke of the day: sacrifice 6 and: 1 rare gunner soul, 4 rare souls and 2 skill shard seriously looool
My shitest sacrifice i think, 10 full 4* for 5 souls to win 5 X 3* ahahahah
If my account is not flag to loot only shit i don't understand
They want i leave the game certainly....
I've seen, that the wonderful Sparton is reading here, so I will try again.
I write it a little bit bigger, so that Sparton can see it:
Why is there that defence bonus and how high is it?
@Leviathan: This is the question, that gets simply ignored for several months.
I believe this has been answered on several occasions in the past, but to be absolutely clear, there is no bonus whatsoever given to the defense teams in the Arena. The coin toss is a 50/50 chance and the AI on average only has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting perfect attacks. Most of the time the AI will focus the character it has a Class Advantage over, but there is a slight chance that it deviates from that, especially if another opponent's health is low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebhild
If anything, players have a giant advantage over the AI, especially in all of the ways that they can manipulate it into wasting actions (e.g. You, as the player, can do things like put Steel Talismans on a Gunner character to have Vampire Hunter / Rainmaker Eddie on defense waste all of their attacks and deal no damage for the first few rounds of battle. Or you can completely troll defenses with the Mayan Priestess, Gunner Lilith, or Warrior Undead Rescuer by placing Trap Talismans on characters they are likely to focus damage on, etc. as just a few examples)
The main things that make AI defenses strong are team/talisman synergies that cover a lot of these weaknesses in the AI or teams that push really hard in one direction in the hope of either going first or second (e.g. Guard Talisman + Blocker Comps with Seventh Son, Double Shadow Talisman Beast Comps, etc.) There is also, of course the difference in Character / Talisman / Relic Levels, but this is something that players themselves have control over, not the game.
That all being said, there are still quite a few character / talisman bugs that can cause unexpected behavior, which can lead to situations that are unfair. We are constantly working to fix as many of these issues as we safely can each update. But, if there is anything else in particular you are seeing beyond what has been mentioned, please do report it so that we can investigate.
-Kaz
Kaz with all due respect.. without some boost to the AI there's no feasible reason why echo fires each and every time at least 3 times, up to 6 times, in a row for the defense team but almost never fires for the attack team, and it if does fire.. it's generally only once on VERY rare occasions MAYBE twice. It may not be a "defense" boost.. but there does seem to be a % boost for ability chances.
I have Echo on my ATK G Lilith.. no echo fires at all.. DEF G Lilith steals the echo buff on it's first shot... and then fires off 2 more shots because of it... come on! I lost count of how many times this happens.
I don't mean to imply things like echo never fire for the ATK team, They do.. but at a clearly lower success rate than DEF teams.
Sorry, that's just not the case. The mechanics used by both the Defense and Attack teams are exactly the same. There are no outside modifiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yup
What we might consider looking at in the future is just adding something to deal with RNG streakiness to make things "feel" fairer. But we have to be very careful about that, as it can lead to actual exploits. The kind of psychology we are dealing with here is pretty well wrapped up in this talk, if you are interested.
-Kaz
Okay.. I'll take your word for it that it's more of a "perception" problem... but the "perception" is very real :D Maybe it is merely that RNG gets streaks that make it feel you just can't win at times. I know I OFTEN stop with PvP after 3 or 4 fights that seem defense weighted. And when I go on streaks of 4-6-8 fights and NEVER get first hit I know I just need to walk away and wait.
Don't have an hour to watch that at the moment.... but rest assured I will. I often let videos run while sitting and working. Human perception is very relevant to my work (although my work is COMPLETELY unrelated to game dev).
Clearly you are not playing the same game that we are. I see the same stupid stuff Yup is talking about almost every match, and even more often vs teams with a much higher rating. It's maddening how many times the AI gets "perfect" RNG on 35% chance skills and my team gets 3 fails in a row on 70% chance skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
Is it possible you don't understand the underlying mechanics of the engine itself?
It's pretty straight forward in terms of implementation. The problem you are running into is small sample size and a bit of confirmation bias. If you were to run the same battle 20,000 times in a row, the results would average out. But as mentioned, it's quite possible that you can indeed run into unlucky streaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeb99
Again, this has nothing to do with defense getting favored in any way from a mechanics stand point. That's just not the case.
-Kaz