This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.
You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.
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This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.
You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.
is Labyrinth talisman serious?
this is basically stronger version of shroud if it does the same thing as what assassin banshee does
but its even stronger because its 75% chance and because it cant be removed
i think with this i can solo all content with just beast eddie
in all of honestly the 75% to not take damage dont even need to be there because this effect cannot be disabled
ofcourse this isnt a problem since everyone will get it and we gonna have 15 minute long pvp matches
I bet Rags is gonna say this is perfectly fine again and he has no issue killing this
(via doom? Ghost?)
Eternals on Pharaoh could be good. And he got some pretty good upgrades. Labyrinth talismans? Sounds like battles will take a bit longer.
I strongly recommend that you fix Duelist, the Past Basic ability for Eternity Eddie. It's a zero-cost ability which grants an extra turn, meaning you can use it to fill up your Fury to max every turn. Combined with Clansman Eddie's Fury ability, this can be done in an infinite loop.
Viking Eddie's ability Call to Arms was fixed for the exact same reason.
Thanks for mentioning it. We do have a fix scheduled for this coming up soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudjo
-Kaz
Labyrinth talismans are gonna make Set a more useful blocker. Doesn't necessarily mean they ought to be the way they are currently. They sound more useful than eclipse Talismans when Eclipse should be better.
Adjusting soul fragments, really? Why? And also, why fix something that isn't insanely broken when you should really look at making us claim multiple souls.
But hey looks like Pharaoh Eddie is gonna be.....better.
so 75% chance to hot take damage is fine in thy bookQuote:
Originally Posted by Amarthir
ofcourse on a blocker its not too difficult you only need on average 40 hits to kill a Labyrinth talisman user, ofcourse i'm not taking taking into consideration of character's defence and resist
but say - a team with decent sustain and cleanse then the battle will be come a little hard
i would say the 75% chance to not take damage is not needed. it would still function like a better eclipse talisman without it
but ofcourse i wont mind it either way. i will get my self a set of this talisman and if its op i will laugh while wiping my floor with people who could not aquire it
Are the fragments required to claim souls being decreased or increased?
There's no way they're getting decreased. With how many epic souls people had gotten during the last sac event they're probably gonna at the very least double the requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
[QUOTE=Zantarath;94147]is Labyrinth talisman serious?
this is basically stronger version of shroud if it does the same thing as what assassin banshee does
Or make that did. Ass Banshee party is over now that 65% is gonna be 35% damage block. Guess my dupe will be heading to the shit can next sac event.
Great to see 5 set talismans arriving, can we please get more Cosmic talismans and evo materials? With a 1% chance at getting a T3, I would like to get a BUNCH more souls to open and try for some decent ones. 87% chance to get another 1 star T1 is just not gratifying for the effort to get one of these souls, and $70 for 2 Cosmic talismans is just not gonna happen here. Did anyone buy these?Attachment 5317
I'm gonna have to claim my souls now then ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarthir
@Kaz
At least we should get a warning before the changes in soul fragments happen. That way we can decide whether we want to claim our souls or not. that's only fair to us player. are the fragments required to claim a soul being increased? if so, by how much?
ridiculous if they increase the cost to give a claim. For besides paying to rescue souls from fragments, you still have to pay to open souls ..
Valor Talismans now granting Perfect Immunity the duration of the fight should see a rise in Hallowed/Sekemet builds again. Destiny Talismans getting a nerf makes Fortune that much better now. Assassin Banshee passive was 65% as many suspected. This will make an interesting shift again in the Arena.
I am curious to know if there is any intention of looking into the Prisoner Passive and how he works with Killer Prime. Even when cleansed or "transformed", there seems to be a latent effect from Disable Passive. This only happens with Prisoner's passive and only when combined with Killer Prime. I am sure many people are cringing at my mentioning it but the reality is if we want more diversity then we need to not have a "preferred defense" Currently the two most common defense setups in the top end are Assassin Banshee/Magus Lillith or Prisoner/Killer Prime. The Banshee/Lillith build will soon become less impenetrable but the Prisoner/Killer Prime setup is still way over powered. Even if you use the same attack team, the AI is still considerably stronger and often will not suffer the same negative effects as the attacking team even if all the talismans and allies are the same.
They will be increased, mainly for Rare Souls and Class Rare Souls. It will require around 25 to 80 more fragments to claim one than it does now, depending on the soul. These changes will be applied with the next update.Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
-Kaz
There is some work planned for that once we're around to the Arena 2.0 Updates, yes. Passive disable still has some fundamental code issues that seems to always lead to knockons when attempting to fix any given problem with it, so it's one of those skills that will take longer to fix, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormseye
-Kaz
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
One more question, How about Legendaries, Mythical and Epic? are they staying the same?
So, what you're saying is it'll only take a couple more souls to claim another soul from fragments? As long as it's not a huge jump I'll be able to live with itQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
Well kind of ... Rare souls right now cost 25 to claim. let's say you hoarded 3000 fragments. your stack will go from 120 to 60 .... with the update. So, it will make sense to claim your souls now so you don't lose half of your stackQuote:
Originally Posted by Amarthir
Makes sense. I went ahead and claimed everything I had including 7 mythical souls and over two hundred heroic souls so I'll be good to go here. If they don't change things with epic souls then I'll consider the changes to be inconsequentialQuote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
Only the normal Legendary Soul is getting an increase. All other souls and soul types will remain the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
-Kaz
it would be great, if we could see the talisman setups on the enemies in gauntlet before entering the battle. as time goes by and more strong talismans are released this will become really necessary imo. otherwise it's just a gamble, since we cannot estimate the real strength of the opponent.
About that increased Fragments needed, will Precious Souls and normal heroic Soul be affected? I hope not, because i like storing mine, could i please get an answer to that?
We are working on some improvements to better communicate the strength of the enemy teams in gauntlet. Not sure if it will include going as far as to show the enemy's talisman setup (as there are some inherent issues with doing that in the gauntlet as it stands), but there are some other ideas in the works which should hopefully help. Also, at the very least everyone should be able to see what Talismans they have equipped to their own characters easier without having to go to the my team screen or remember the stats on each one individually, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Heroic Souls and Precious Souls will remain unchanged, as will any previous Event Soul Fragments.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emperor
-Kaz
All very good news! Thank you very much Kaz! Much appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
Thanks for the engagement Kaz!
Edit: So regular mythicals wont change?
I'd like a definitive list of the fragment values that are changing.
rare + class rare
legendary
Not changing:
epics, class epics
mythical, class mythical
heroic, legendary heroic, mythical heroic
precious, event specific (does this include alchemist, trooper, and eternity?)
My thoughts about the update:
Shaman
He is such a poor guy, in my opinion one of the weakest Eddies of all. The increased scaling will help, as well as the new talis slot colors. Still I think he might need more adjustments to be a real 5 star. Maybe some completely new skills, at least some AoE attacks with multiple hits. So this change here can only be the first step I think. Gauntlet use only.
Pharaoh
He was very good in the early days (when I did not have him), but lost his usefulness over time. So a buff is well deserved and the changes will make him better, especially as he can now deal with perfect immunity and some other golden buffs. Still he won't be seen in the arena more often I guess but he will help more in the Gauntlet now.
A Banshee
Well that there was something wrong with her Passive was clear from the first fight we did with and especially against her. Forum posts were written very fast about this and I can't imagine that the devs only realised this yesterday. It is a bit smelly that there was no hotfix, but it was waited until she completely dominated the PvP meta and she was also in the pool of characters of the current final mega event, only to tell people now that she will be "nerfed" to the planned numbers. I am curious to see how she will perform after the change, she still might be helpful.
Talismans
Destiny: I even called them a game braker. And they were, maybe half a year ago. Of course the invisibility is still annoying and the very high trigger frequency of exactly this buff despite the large number of options was annoying. But in the meantime there are much more characters available that remove buffs, FFE seemed to be created as a very specific counter with his one ability specifically removing invisibility. So I would say the nerf is ok, but half a year too late.
Valor: getting PI on top is a good addition in my opinion. They get slightly better but not overpowered.
Present and Tomb look ok, nothing too special. Tomb will have some nice synergy with other characters that apply the needed debuffs
Labyrinth: there was already a lot of discussion here in the thread. They might be a problem and in particular result in longer fights. Nobody asked for longer fights. The additional debuffs make that set overpowered in my opinion. Good thing: as it is a 5 set, you cannot combine it with e.g. immunity. To me personally such heavy Talisman sets are not needed in the game at all as they override tactics and synergies between chars, their abilities and more "normal" Talis effects too easly. Nevertheless I can imagine that those that like to throw money are already slobbering.
Doom clarificaiton is nice, the forum already came to this conclusion how doom works when a char dies before doom triggered
Soul fragment "ADJUSTMENTS"
This is the most striking change. A terrible one. The communitcation about it was maybe as terrible as the change itself. "Adjust" gives no information about the direction of the change. But those of us players that are here for a while already knew that it would not be good for the players. It was nice that the devs answered player's questions. First, saying that "mainly" rare souls will be changed. Then more in detail. This was like putting a road sign at the highway, saying "slower", "even slower"... this was not Maiden-like! You could have given the details right away in the table of changes.
Also I do not really see the need for a change: the character pool for rare souls is increasing roughly every two weeks, so it is getting harder to get specific characters anyway. Plus the "adjusted" sacrifice rewards yield by far less rare souls than before. For sure the new sacrifice rewards and the frags that we get for opening regular souls are involved in this decision. But is it reasonable? One stack of 99 regulars usually gives rare souls fragments in a range that is normally not even enough for 1 rare soul...
Class specific rare soul fragments? The do not really exist, I think there was 1 event and 2 calendar gifts with them. I did not claim them for a year I think and I have 3-4 of each class in stock - wow. So maybe they will show up more often now. It could be that they drop in NC, but nobody that has finished this world plays it again. Increase gold rewards and reduce SoT costs and we can talk about that again.
Also I think it is a distinct slap in the face of us players that the changes to these fragments are done BEFORE there is the "claim all" button or a slider to claim souls more efficiently. "Thank" you for stealing my precious time as I have to click claim, wait for the animation to end, and then click OK 181 times to use my 4540 frags. Then the same with the other frag types that are planned to see that "adjustment".
MISSING:
Bug fixes! But as we know they are not always listed in the table before the update. So we can still hope to see some fixes. For instance the interference of couter talis and void/thorn etc shields is broken since ~more than a year.
Inventory management! This needs a revision since a long time, as characters and talis are released in an (in my opinion) unnecessary high frequency! It is good to hear that there are plans about the visualisation of talis effects in the screen where you select your team. But the inventory is a mess. I would love to see an inventory increase due to the new cosmic things and also some more love for organisation, look at this mess:
Attachment 5324
Don't get me wrong, it is always nice to see our game being furher evolved and some of the changes are nice and fair. But with some changes, especially the Labyrinth talis and the fragment adjustments you've made very few friends.
Just my opinion! Up the Irons!
I think one little change would already make him a 5-Star: His Rending Split-Move is removing all Shields and granting an extra turn if Shield is removed. Either make him remove also perfect (Heal) shields or make him also remove damage invulnerability and getting an extra turn. With that he could be an asset against certain setups. But as he is right now, even with the changes I fear he will remain an unused character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade
One more thing that I am a bit worried of with Skill changes on chars, usually when we have maxed these guys out and they change the skills, we loose all of our skill shards and have to re-invest, surely they should return those skill shards or apply them to the new skills...
@Kaz, what do you think?
The labyrinth set is, sorry, ABSURD. Let's use the eclipse set as benchmark. Per hit, you'll receive 5% HP damage with eclipse, but 2.5% HP damage with labyrinth (in expectation). On Top of this labyrinth, with 25% chance when struck, inflicts debuffs on ALL of the opposing characters. Further, eclipse provides a buff that can be removed, while labyrinth is a passive. Let's top this of by acknowledging it a 5 set, so we can add a cosmic talisman which is probably stupendously powerful once maxed out. Guys seriously ? This ain't no power creep, this is a power rush.
The sentinel 5 set looks like equally bad news, I don't even want to think about that.
/e: It'd be nice if we, the players, could agree on not using these things ... I don't even want to think about what toons and talismans that are being released in a year from now are going to be capable of. 10% chance to permanently delete enemy toons from the opponent players roster ? The idea of introducing balanced stuff instead of game breaking stuff seems to be completely absent from the dev's minds.
I would agree that these new talismans merely look like "fun killers" and annoyances for PvP.
And unfortunately there's not a whole lot of new playable content to make them worthwhile there.
I too feel the power creep is moving ahead way too fast with these proposed talismans. I mean do you REALLY think granting an entire team perfect health for the duration of a battle is anything other than unbalanced?
I sense danger ahead! LOL. There seems to be some chat on here about the way the game is going and from these changes it seems that many of you are correct in this assumption. We are moving quickly to a game that seems to be chasing its own tail - going nowhere and we players are being taken along for that ride on a game I am sure we all kind of love and are addicted to for one reason or another.
I am really not sure where I am currently getting my fun from in lotb - probably my kids accounts as they are not near the top - there can be a lot of fun to be had down the bottom to middle of the game and real challenges to face.
An example from my game this morning - I played five arena matches and got my ass handed to me in all five - the first time this has ever happened to me. OK, I was mucking about with my attack teams I was using but I truly got destroyed in a round or two in each battle. I then took some of these on again and owned them just as quick with my destroyed attack team which had been my defence team. The game, at the moment, is, to me, a bit all over the place. Arena is toss of the coin random based in many battles and I dread to think what gauntlet will be like after this update.
I hope I am wrong and that this is not going to make the game so boring that you have no idea if you are ging to win or lose a battle. Maybe a lot of folk have these gold/cash relic boosters on the go (I dont) and maybe it was that and/or bad luck this morning, not sure but it is the first time since I started arena where I have been skelped so soundly with little chance to do anything much at all.
RNG is coming more into the game than ever as is coin toss. However, saying all that I do still enjoy playing on my kids accounts so maybe for new to mid level players what we have now is a chance for them to be a top player by spending and hitting events hard - my kids cant as they are at school but I can see how this must be pretty cool for newer folks as you just need a bit of luck in events, grind time and ironite and a wallet and you can be a top player in weeks to a few months.
Maybe I just got out the wrong side of bed of course!
Good point and completely right! I wanted to mention that too but forgot it. Give the Labyrinth also a buff so that it can be removed and the problem would be reduced to a somewhat ok extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liu
I think this is mainly the case as we rather old farts are not that familiar with the implications that come with this being a mobile game. To be honest I thought at some point we would be done with new Talis and a final state would be reached. But this seems impossible. Same for extreme character abilities. Did you expect 2 years ago that there will be something like Killer Prime or the Ferryman? I did not.Quote:
Originally Posted by scott-5496
So due to the needed evolution - and the selected high frequency of new stuff - things MUST become crazy I think. For me personally everything could be slowed down to let's say half of the frequency with which characters, Talis and other effects are released.
But mobile games are made especially for the young folks and due to the large selection of games they need to evolve rather quick as most of these folks lose the ability to be patient.
About your pvp issue...that is really crazy. Due to the current meta I only lose <1% of my battles. Only if all of a sudden my passives do not work (without disable passive being around), there is a real chance for the AI to win. There was a confirmed bug a while ago that made relics sometimes not work and temporal relics work for areas of the game where they should not apply, so maybe this problem is back?
the problem is that the devs have to earn money for the company, so you have to make players chase things they want. since the game was pretty unbalanced for quite some time now i don't expect anything to change. if they release an middish/okayish toon/talisman who would care or spend because of it? people will only pay if you offer them things that will improve their strength. so the wheel will be spinning endlessly
i think the truth is that there is no way back, either you take it or you leave. the toons will get even stronger and talismans too. rlease an OP team and sell the players the counter after a few weeks. that seems to be the way to earn money in these games. (it's also the same in strike force btw) that said i do feel lotb is a bit out of control with all these crazy mechanics like avoiding damage or random nomal, silver and golden buffs/debuffs.
but i cannot see an escape there so we have to deal with it.
Yeah that is for sure and I guess it all makes complete sense. They must make money to keep it all going and I also guess what right do we old timers have to be the best just bexcause we have done form the start - no reason at all. It's like in football - who were the like of Man City of PSG before they had the influx of massive cash to buy players - they were no one. Same sort of thing here - you can buy your way to the top if you want to and I guess we need that to happen too or the game makes no maney and no wages are paid or staff have to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Just now though it does seem like things like the arena and gauntlet are a fest of random stuff and a massive influx of teams that have been lucky in events over recent months.
Labrynth talisman is undoubtly- the most powerful set we haven seen
its a more powerful version of eclipse: for a number of reasons:
it is unremoveable
it has 75% chance to not take damage - which offset the 10% random damage taken compared to the eclipse
it takes random damage. which means defence and resist will reduce the overall damage taken
as this is a turn based game. introducing such mechanics like chance to not take damage really hurt the value of turns when players get them. if this is a ActionRole-Playing-Game this set could work as damage done is not determined by turns but by speed of attack which people could invest in, but having such a mechanic that is unremoveable is just absurd.
i have 3 different path of suggestions for how this talisman set can be adjusted
1: Keep current functions, but also add: Character cannot be healed
Comment: this is still very powerful. but players can kill this character eventually even tho it may still take 5 to 50 turns depending on RNG
-It become a set for character that needs to stay alive for at least the first couple turns, but usefulness falls off later on
-The negative effect it has still make it very useful while it lasts
Power-rating(9/10)- one of the powerful set every created
2: Remove the 75% chance to not take damage
Comment: This is what i would prefer - the value of actions made by a player have impact and the set still have strong defense abilities
-The damage taken can be offset by Def and Resist so 10% is not as bad as one would seem.
-Running synergy with fortune talisman or other forms of sustain can easily survive
-Especially good for taking pressure off blockers if running with blockers
-The negative effect it has still make it very useful while it lasts
Power-rating(9/10)- still the most powerful set, players can synthesizer better and have creative build options.
3: Remove thewhensuccessfuly sturk take 10% of hp as random damage
Explanation: Very Rng Based. I personally do not want such a mechanic in a turn based game. but if devs like this kind of things i have to consider-it
-really there is not much to say about this effect, if lucky it will take a while to kill it, but it could also randomly fail, either player gonna hate this or Ai gonna hate this.
Power-rating(8/10)- could fail very hard if not lucky, but if lucky all the universe cannot kill u
the Labyrinth set could- in its original form - lock a battle to the point of just spending long time to kill just a single toon ,and such a toon could be a part of a chain to keep a entire team alive. Especilly combined with fortune talisman and assassin banshee together to make a extremly long battle, nobody likes such long battles because its un-fun.
I think if this set is released in its original form. i will simply no play arena seriously anymore and just play gauntlet, sure a lone person would not seem to matter to the Devs because the amount of money i give them is limited. But think people will find some battles atrocious and become very much like me.
This is a game for players to enjoy themselves, we are the consumers that provide income, and when great changed are made, such as release of night city and the following events- i personally spent a lot in support of the developers of the game. I'm not sure if other feel this way but some times i get a thought where the devs are doing good with releasing the contents, ill buy some support packs and give my self greater enjoyment while supporting them in making new and meaningful content.
I understand the need for develops to power-creep the game to generate income, however, some testing should be done before releasing such impacting and game breaking stuff like chance of not taking damage in a turn based game.
Sure, it increase purchase, but releasing a problematic mechanic into the game(chance of not taking damage in a turn based game?) which could result in very long battles can make the game very un-fun, and not-fun is not something good for the game. I feel that the game is shifting too hard into forcing players to spend more in acquiring the latest and greatest, and what would happen is.
-Current player who CANNOT spend cannot catch up will leave because the game is un-fun for them.
-Players who CAN spend, will do so to stay in top but with long battles and RNG they will feel unrewarded.
-Of course, we may have people who enjoy long battles, feel free to say so.
Actually, the regular Mythics do have an increase of 50 frags, but the other Mythics will remain as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquatcho
-Kaz
Regarding concerns about the Labyrinth Talismans, the feedback is appreciated and your concerns are understood.
As always we will keep an eye on things and adjust if need be, but during testing they did not outright prove to be better than Eclipse Talismans (or even Destiny for that matter) due to the prevalence of multi-hitters, immunity, their inability to prevent MAX HP reduction, and the surprising difference the 10% HP damage makes vs the 5% in killing the target with these talismans faster (using pretty accessible units). As far as their effectiveness on blockers like Set, they are okay, but passive disable tends to mitigate their advantage as well as the additional hits of damage they take from blocking the hits of other allies (Destiny was much more of a problem so far than these Talismans atm, I think). Shadow Sustaining / Advantage is still probably a more reliable build for Set.
These Talismans are more meant to allow certain Eddies (and potentially other characters) to become useful in Arena Offense / Defense, because they do increase the chances of them at least being able to survive the first round (unlike Shroud which can be stripped).
The main point is, with any character or talisman it is important that we actually have the chance to play with them in context to get the clearest picture of their overall strength and potential in the meta. If we find that it becomes too prevalent or overwhelming for whatever reason, we will look at adjusting them as needed, while still allowing them to reach their goals.
-Kaz